States that kill its citizens. My, oh, my, the glorious company that we keep!! Woohoo!! That’s a list of some of the most backwards and most barbarous nations on earth. Do we belong on that list?
Question: Are you for abolishing the death penalty in this country, or against it?
Me? I’m 100% for abolishing it.
Sure, let’s take the example of a non-human who first tortures, then rapes, then kills a child. No, that’s not a “far-fetched” example. This happens in the USA!USA!USA! with some regularity. Yes, I would almost love to implement the eye-for-an-eye biblical precept; stick a jagged broom handle up that guys ass and twist it a few times, peel the skin off his dick, and then let him bleed to death. Glory, hallelujah, revenge is sweet! But, then what? It does not bring back the dead. It is not a deterrent. It really “solves” nothing, except to gratify my basest of instincts.
I am for abolishing the death penalty for two reasons;
—1) Our justice system is fucked up beyond belief. It is corrupt to the core. The end result? There are plenty of innocent people on death row who are dindus. “I did’n do nuthin’!! Sparing the life of even one innocent is worth it. And don’t be so quick to philosophize and scream “NO!!” … because you would scream “YES!!!” if it was your innocent life on the line. You need to stay consistent.
—2) A lifetime confined to a tiny jail cell is far worse than a quick death. Don’t hang Hillcunt for treason! Put her in 23 hour a day solitary confinement. A tiny cell with the shitter right next to her pillow. For lunch she gets moldy bologna sandwiches on stale bread for the rest of her life. If she needs dental work …. no Novocaine. No TV — cuz I want her to think about her crimes until she’s passed to the Great Beyond. For someone who has lived a lifetime of ease, privilege, luxury and opulence, that fate truly is worse than death.
Society is like a house; if you don’t take the trash out it becomes unlivable.
KaD
That’s a non-answer. A lifetime in prison is taking out the trash.
Capital punishment – Those with the capital, avoid the punishment.
The countries with the least don’t have the kneegrow population to deal with Or are black countries where they kill each other off and the state doesn’t have to be bothered.
China is a commy country with huge overpopulation that is trying to make the elites happy by democide.
Piling the trash in an unused room isn’t the same as taking it out.
Forgot to answer the question- Against abolishing the death penalty.
There are some sick tickets in this country and most of them are politicians.
Stucky I agree with you 100%. I’d add one more reason:
3) There’s a huge amount of money and time spent on appeals, retrials, etc. in death penalty cases. It costs more to put someone to death in this country than to keep them incarcerated for life.
As long as there is a protected class that eludes the long arm of the law and some well-deserved hangings for the suffering and mayhem they inflict on multitudes, the little guy, no matter how grave his offenses, should also be free from execution. It’s the double standard that I can’t stand.
Gotta keep in mind that all those other countries have lower prison populations than the US.
Which would make them superior to us.
Ar so I’ve been told on a rather regular basis by certain segments of society.
Stucky- What is your alternative to capital punishment (serious answer) ?
There is 1 reason for capital punishment, and that is to keep some sort of boundary, some sort of line that can’t be crossed
What are you to do with killers, already in jail, who refuse to stop killing?
or those who’s mind has snapped, and go postal, and start shooting civilians for akbar?
keep capital punishment for those who are uncontrollable psychopathic killers,
you know, like, the guy who just can’t stop creating more terrorists by unsanctioned death from above.
“Stucky- What is your alternative to capital punishment (serious answer) ?” ——– Bea Lever
As I stated in the article …. LIFE in prison. I might add, without the possibility of parole. (Except, of course, if the person is later found to be innocent.)
“There is 1 reason for capital punishment, and that is to keep some sort of boundary, some sort of line that can’t be crossed.” ———- pablo
Yeah, except for the fact that the line IS crossed.
If Capital Punishment worked as a deterrent, then the Sauds wouldn’t continue to have weekly beheadings in the public square. Not even lopping off hands is a deterrent to theft in Saudi-fukland.
I’m for abolishing the death penalty in this country. In principle, sure, no problem. Give ’em what they deserve. In practice, the state(s) doesn’t seem to care very much whether they’ve got the right person or not. I’ve read about and seen on TV several cases where the Innocence Project wants to test forensic evidence to prove one way or another, once and for all, whether a person locked up for a crime actually did it. In ALL cases, the state fights for years to keep that from happening. They don’t CARE if they’ve got the right guy or not. They got their conviction and they don’t want the D.A., judge, or cops to be exposed for the corrupt assholes they are.
More recently, the big news was about the FBI’s “experts” from their vaunted crime lab flat out lying in court to put innocent people in prison. Some went to death row and some of those were executed. I notice the MSM has pretty much buried mention of that and concentrate on the agency’s valiant efforts to thwart terror by giving them a back door into Apple’s products.
I also agree with everything in the article.
“Piling the trash in an unused room isn’t the same as taking it out.” ——– KaD
OK, then. You could have simply stated “I’m in favor of state sponsored executions”, to avoid the ambiguity.
Stucky,
It would be quite rare for an executed criminal to continue committing crimes, murder or otherwise.
Yet those sentenced to life frequently do as they kill and assault other prisoners and prison staff.
The number of executions per million population iran saudi iraq and jordan are among the worst while the usa fares much better with .1 per million.
country ex/1M
guinea 10.465
iran 3.613
saudi 2.813
iraq 1.649
jordan 1.429
somalia 1.273
yemen 0.815
china 0.725
sudan 0.575
belarus 0.316
taiwan 0.214
afganistan0.182
egypt 0.163
usa 0.108
pakistan 0.037
“It would be quite rare for an executed criminal to continue committing crimes, murder or otherwise. Yet those sentenced to life frequently do as they kill and assault other prisoners and prison staff.” ——–Anonymous
Change the rules and/or procedures.
Pretty hard to commit more crimes when you’re sitting alone in a cell for 23 hours a day …. and the one hour outside the cell, you’re led to the pen in shackles.
The best argument I ever heard for the death penalty is that a dead criminal commits no more crimes. The logic of that statement is unassailable.
Still, I don’t like the death penalty. The first thing we ought to do is raise the death penalty standard from ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ to ‘beyond any doubt.’ That way we would pretty much eliminate the possibility of accidentally executing an innocent person.
But how do we make sure that ‘life in prison’ really means life in prison? How do we prevent addlepated judges with political agendas from releasing predators back into society?
If someone could answer those two questions satisfactorily, I’d vote to abolish the death penalty.
Stucky,
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Convicted-Murderer-Accused-of-Killing-Mom-2-Days-After-Being-Released-From-Prison-278953781.html
My USA may have come in fifth for executions in 2014, but we are #1!!! #1!!! #1!!! in executing people outside of our borders. Just ask anyone getting married in Afghanistan, Yemen or western Iraq.
Child molesters, rapists, killers deserve to die.
The only concern I have is whether or not they can be accurately identified. If they can be, I am all for tossing hem in boiling oil and being done with it. They have lost their right to exist.
And I oppose life sentences. Why should society cover the cost of feeding them, health care, etc? Just hit the flush button and be done with it.
I’d make an exception for this guy, he’s a special kind of stupid.
Idaho State Rep.: “If Women Get Pregnant After Rape, That Means They Must Have Enjoyed It”
http://politicalo.com/idaho-state-rep-if-women-get-pregnant-after-rape-that-means-they-must-have-enjoyed-it/
Good post stucky. By the way if anyone is interested in the subject, you could benefit from reading an extended essay by Albert Camus entitled, “reflections on the guillotine”. He logically dismantles the case for capital punishment by the state. I have not read it in years but it is very persuasive. I do remember that Camus says, if the state carries out the death penalty against premeditated murder, then that is the height of hypocrisy, since state a state sanctioned hanging or whatever is exactly that. I largely agree with him as I do here with stucky–I am against it.
But I have a few caveats. First, no issue can be honestly discussed without discussing the issue of race. Race comes first, above all else. Without running through that thorny bush here, in relation to capital punishment, I will simply say that blacks and whites and Asians and mestizos are different. A justice system that handles each as if they were the same is bound to be absurd and ineffective.
I agree again with stucky that our justice system is corrupt. I will add “stupid” also, since I have experienced it first hand, as a juror in a murder trial while living Philadelphia. Maybe at some point I will write a stand alone post about it, because I remember it so vividly. But suffice to say, I was yanked out of the world of ideas, the one I inhabit, and pushed into a different one altogether. I was repulsed by the whole episode, from top to bottom. One tidbit is worth mentioning. Forgive me if I have told this story before.
One fellow juror, a negress, a teacher no less, insisted that we hang them high early on in the deliberation. Remember the defendants were young male negroes themselves. I reminded her that it didn’t matter if she thought they were guilty or bad eggs. That didn’t matter. What mattered was if the evidence proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they were guilty. In my view it did not, at least for one of the defendants, if only because the prosecutors were quite shabby. She could not understand what I was saying. She did not understand the concept of “reasonable doubt”. Which reinforces what I wrote at the beginning, namely that everything must begin with the issue of race.
I was partially successful in convincing her, and others, that the case was weak, even knowing that these guys were trouble makers, nogoodniks, useless eaters. We ended up convicting one, and freeing the other. Was that justice? I doubt it. But I did my duty nonetheless.
Now, one quibble with stucky. He states that being in prison is worse than being put to death. Understandable. But notice a couple things here. First, we must recognize the principle, embedded in law, that of proportion. In lay terms, this simply means that the punishment fit the crime. If one says, as stucky does, that serving a life sentence in prison is worse than a quick death, then it follows that the death penalty is fit for lesser crimes. Thus, you would have, as a legal perversion, the death penalty meted out to someone who commits a crime just short of murder, perhaps attempted murder.
Second, using Hillary Clinton as an example does not help Stucky’s case. She has no conscience stucky. so she would not suffer the consequences of having to live with her misdeeds all her life, shuffling about in her shoebox cell. In her case, a grisly death penalty would in fact deter her, if we follow the likes of llpoh, because she might worry how she looks to the public, on the teevee, lifeless, eyes bulging, hair tousled, with a noose tightened around her neck.
So, I guess I will agree with stucky, in principle, that the death penalty is barbaric, even in ideal conditions. The judicial system is corrupt. And yet llpoh is also correct. Some people do deserve to die, and the state must carry out justice on the behalf of the victim’s family. There is no easy answer. It would be easier if the penalty were evenly applied, but that is another subject altogether.
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Execution:
The only way to deal with some evil is a double dose hot Pb injection to the cranium but if govt is sanctioned and performs this act with approval of the people it then becomes legitimate, sanctioned and regular. Then at some point it will be used for convenience and power grabbing instead of against the sort of evil that can not be reasoned with.
Also, we as people/citizens dont have the right to perform this act, therefore we cannot bestow that right unto the govt so it is literally impossible for them to do it morally (of course they do anyway because morals are not their forte).
Its far better to have an armed populace ready to defend themselves against evil, because then if the kill they are acting morally in self defense, they are removing evil permanently and not enriching or empowering the state.
So id say i am against the govt doing it but not against it happening (one of my favorite comic book characters growing up was the Punisher).
Stucky- Life in prison is too expensive for the taxpayer, why should we pay for them three squares a day and free healthcare and workout rooms not to mention cable tv and computers ? I think it’s 50 grand a year now, what will the cost be in 30 years?
Bea, currently in this country it is much more expensive to execute someone than to put them in prison for life.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
Due to how totally fucked up our criminal justice system currently is, I’m for putting a moratorium on capital punishment until 2 things happen:
1) We get the crooks out of the prosecution, including erasing the “thin blue line”
2) All political prisoners are released; Manning, Segelman, that Wikileaks dude come to mind
3) If it’s reinstated the law needs to be changed so the test for capital punishment is beyond circumstantial evidence
4) All forensic labs need to be independently certified every 6 months. Coroners work should be audited
I agree with the posts by Archie and Westcoaster. To Westie’s list I would say:
3) If the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard meant a damn, circumstantial evidence wouldn’t be close to sufficient for a conviction. You are proposing a standard that’s much lower than the one that currently is on the books, but I think you correctly see the real application of the standard is poor.
5) Anyone who provides false or knowingly exaggerated testimony for the prosecution, and any prosecutor who attempts to convict someone without sincere belief that they are guilty of exactly the crime charged, should be punished at the maximum penalty that was available to punish the defendant who was falsely prosecuted.
Much of the US criminal justice problem is politicians – both legislators and prosecutors, most of the latter being highly political as well.
As others have said, I believe many criminals deserve to die, but I don’t trust the US system to fairly or accurately determine guilt.
I was talking to a cop a while back about what we should do with child molesters if we couldn’t kill them. My idea was simple. Banishment – because as many have stated – why should we pay for them? We shouldn’t.
Take a country like ours. Go north of the Saskatchewan border about 200 miles. If you know this country then you know it is roadless and peppered with thousands upon thousands of lakes and a million miles of muskeg and spruce trees. The only access is via air. Build a village of nothing more than some shacks with a few roofs in the middle of it. Put nothing in it. Period. Drop all the dumbfucks in it. Shoot down anything that flies within 300 miles of it that is not scheduled and wish the residents good luck (or not). They have shelter, water and ample food around if they know how to harvest it. They have no realistic way out. On foot they would almost certainly die. Air defence would be your one and only expense to ensure no one was picked up by an unscheduled flight.
The state is no longer involved in the murder game and the population is no longer picking up the tab to look after these dirt bags.
Just an idea.