Question Authority

Guest Post by Hardscrabble Farmer

It’s easy to dismiss people who have no scientific credentials when they question scientific discoveries. The reasoning is that because they are untrained and have no formal training their input is not relevant if it counters established policy or position. To some degree this is a valid point, but we must also recall that men like Tesla, Copernicus and Edison were not degree holding scientists and their contributions to the field are beyond compare. Science is about observation, testable explanations and predictions about the mechanics of the physical world.

Anyone can perform a simple experiment, we teach the discipline to children, we use our knowledge daily in the act of living our lives, from boiling water to cleaning our homes. Many experiments require complex equipment, costly environments and extensive knowledge of mathematics and physics, and so people delegate these outcomes to those with access, trusting them to be truthful and without guile about the results. Often, due to the costs associated, scientists must rely on funding from government, academic institutions and corporate sponsors. Often there are strings attached and certain results desired.

It is a rare person who can stand up to both authority and the man who controls the financial strings that come with these arrangements. A former neighbor of mine was the CEO of one of the largest polling organizations in the country. Most people believe that polling is based on scientific sampling of populations in order to better understand opinions with narrow margins of error. During one particular discussion I asked him how he was able to determine with certainty what a given opinion was and he said, “That’s easy, it’s whatever the guy who writes the check wants it to be.”

The greatest single lesson I ever learned from my Father, the best teacher I ever had, was to question authority. He was the one who taught me about men like Stanley Milgram and Tomas de Torquemada and the lessons of blind acquiescence to men in positions of authority. I didn’t always listen to him and some of my only regrets in life are tied to my failure to remember what he taught me.

As I become older and the bonds of social acceptance and approval become increasingly meaningless, I have begun to look into things that stir my curiosity, to test for myself long held beliefs based on the observations and conclusions of others, to see if I can replicate the same solutions to my satisfaction. I understand that there are some things that I will never know and I guess I can live with that, but nothing will ever keep me from following that thread that leads me to some kind of understanding of the mechanics of the world. It is far too beautiful to allow someone else to experience that for me.

Open Science Collaboration is a group that tests scientific research under the same criteria as the peer reviewed papers that have already been published, in numerous disciplines. As the article below shows, the majority of those tested fail to reach the original conclusions, even when the original scientists collaborate under the same conditions. Peer review used to mean peer duplicated. Today over 90% of all peer reviewed work is not duplicated, merely proofread by fellow scientists.

That is a problem and it leads to doubt, justifiably. As I have posted in other threads in the past I no longer trust the official narrative of numerous disciplines, not because they are necessarily false, but because the authority that stands behind the claims has proven itself to be unreliable and no longer worthy of trust. As much as I am saddened by no longer accepting the uplifting stories of mankind’s greatest accomplishments, it is far more depressing to think that the reason behind it is the duplicity and deception of the very authority that may have made those successes a possibility.

 

Scientific Regress by William A. Wilson

The problem with ­science is that so much of it simply isn’t. Last summer, the Open Science Collaboration announced that it had tried to replicate one hundred published psychology experiments sampled from three of the most prestigious journals in the field. Scientific claims rest on the idea that experiments repeated under nearly identical conditions ought to yield approximately the same results, but until very recently, very few had bothered to check in a systematic way whether this was actually the case. The OSC was the biggest attempt yet to check a field’s results, and the most shocking. In many cases, they had used original experimental materials, and sometimes even performed the experiments under the guidance of the original researchers. Of the studies that had originally reported positive results, an astonishing 65 percent failed to show statistical significance on replication, and many of the remainder showed greatly reduced effect sizes.

Their findings made the news, and quickly became a club with which to bash the social sciences. But the problem isn’t just with psychology. There’s an ­unspoken rule in the pharmaceutical industry that half of all academic biomedical research will ultimately prove false, and in 2011 a group of researchers at Bayer decided to test it. Looking at sixty-seven recent drug discovery projects based on preclinical cancer biology research, they found that in more than 75 percent of cases the published data did not match up with their in-house attempts to replicate. These were not studies published in fly-by-night oncology journals, but blockbuster research featured in Science, Nature, Cell, and the like. The Bayer researchers were drowning in bad studies, and it was to this, in part, that they attributed the mysteriously declining yields of drug pipelines. Perhaps so many of these new drugs fail to have an effect because the basic research on which their development was based isn’t valid.

When a study fails to replicate, there are two possible interpretations. The first is that, unbeknownst to the investigators, there was a real difference in experimental setup between the original investigation and the failed replication. These are colloquially referred to as “wallpaper effects,” the joke being that the experiment was affected by the color of the wallpaper in the room. This is the happiest possible explanation for failure to reproduce: It means that both experiments have revealed facts about the universe, and we now have the opportunity to learn what the difference was between them and to incorporate a new and subtler distinction into our theories.

The other interpretation is that the original finding was false. Unfortunately, an ingenious statistical argument shows that this second interpretation is far more likely. First articulated by John Ioannidis, a professor at Stanford University’s School of Medicine, this argument proceeds by a simple application of Bayesian statistics. Suppose that there are a hundred and one stones in a certain field. One of them has a diamond inside it, and, luckily, you have a diamond-detecting device that advertises 99 percent accuracy. After an hour or so of moving the device around, examining each stone in turn, suddenly alarms flash and sirens wail while the device is pointed at a promising-looking stone. What is the probability that the stone contains a diamond?

Most would say that if the device advertises 99 percent accuracy, then there is a 99 percent chance that the device is correctly discerning a diamond, and a 1 percent chance that it has given a false positive reading. But consider: Of the one hundred and one stones in the field, only one is truly a diamond. Granted, our machine has a very high probability of correctly declaring it to be a diamond. But there are many more diamond-free stones, and while the machine only has a 1 percent chance of falsely declaring each of them to be a diamond, there are a hundred of them. So if we were to wave the detector over every stone in the field, it would, on average, sound twice—once for the real diamond, and once when a false reading was triggered by a stone. If we know only that the alarm has sounded, these two possibilities are roughly equally probable, giving us an approximately 50 percent chance that the stone really contains a diamond.

This is a simplified version of the argument that Ioannidis applies to the process of science itself. The stones in the field are the set of all possible testable hypotheses, the diamond is a hypothesized connection or effect that happens to be true, and the diamond-detecting device is the scientific method. A tremendous amount depends on the proportion of possible hypotheses which turn out to be true, and on the accuracy with which an experiment can discern truth from falsehood. Ioannidis shows that for a wide variety of scientific settings and fields, the values of these two parameters are not at all favorable.

For instance, consider a team of molecular biologists investigating whether a mutation in one of the countless thousands of human genes is linked to an increased risk of Alzheimer’s. The probability of a randomly selected mutation in a randomly selected gene having precisely that effect is quite low, so just as with the stones in the field, a positive finding is more likely than not to be spurious—unless the experiment is unbelievably successful at sorting the wheat from the chaff. Indeed, Ioannidis finds that in many cases, approaching even 50 percent true positives requires unimaginable accuracy. Hence the eye-catching title of his paper: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False.”

What about accuracy? Here, too, the news is not good. First, it is a de facto standard in many fields to use one in twenty as an acceptable cutoff for the rate of false positives. To the naive ear, that may sound promising: Surely it means that just 5 percent of scientific studies report a false positive? But this is precisely the same mistake as thinking that a stone has a 99 percent chance of containing a ­diamond just because the detector has sounded. What it really means is that for each of the countless false hypo­theses that are contemplated by researchers, we accept a 5 percent chance that it will be falsely counted as true—a decision with a considerably more deleterious effect on the proportion of correct studies.

Paradoxically, the situation is actually made worse by the fact that a promising connection is often studied by several independent teams. To see why, suppose that three groups of researchers are studying a phenomenon, and when all the data are analyzed, one group announces that it has discovered a connection, but the other two find nothing of note. Assuming that all the tests involved have a high statistical power, the lone positive finding is almost certainly the spurious one. However, when it comes time to report these findings, what happens? The teams that found a negative result may not even bother to write up their non-discovery. After all, a report that a fanciful connection probably isn’t true is not the stuff of which scientific prizes, grant money, and tenure decisions are made.

And even if they did write it up, it probably wouldn’t be accepted for publication. Journals are in competition with one another for attention and “impact factor,” and are always more eager to report a new, exciting finding than a killjoy failure to find an association. In fact, both of these effects can be quantified. Since the majority of all investigated hypotheses are false, if positive and negative evidence were written up and accepted for publication in equal proportions, then the majority of articles in scientific journals should report no findings. When tallies are actually made, though, the precise opposite turns out to be true: Nearly every published scientific article reports the presence of an association. There must be massive bias at work.

Ioannidis’s argument would be potent even if all scientists were angels motivated by the best of intentions, but when the human element is considered, the picture becomes truly dismal. Scientists have long been aware of something euphemistically called the “experimenter effect”: the curious fact that when a phenomenon is investigated by a researcher who happens to believe in the phenomenon, it is far more likely to be detected. Much of the effect can likely be explained by researchers unconsciously giving hints or suggestions to their human or animal subjects, perhaps in something as subtle as body language or tone of voice. Even those with the best of intentions have been caught fudging measurements, or making small errors in rounding or in statistical analysis that happen to give a more favorable result. Very often, this is just the result of an honest statistical error that leads to a desirable outcome, and therefore it isn’t checked as deliberately as it might have been had it pointed in the opposite direction.

But, and there is no putting it nicely, deliberate fraud is far more widespread than the scientific establishment is generally willing to admit. One way we know that there’s a great deal of fraud occurring is that if you phrase your question the right way, ­scientists will confess to it. In a survey of two thousand research psychologists conducted in 2011, over half of those surveyed admitted outright to selectively reporting those experiments which gave the result they were after. Then the investigators asked respondents anonymously to estimate how many of their fellow scientists had engaged in fraudulent behavior, and promised them that the more accurate their guesses, the larger a contribution would be made to the charity of their choice. Through several rounds of anonymous guessing, refined using the number of scientists who would admit their own fraud and other indirect measurements, the investigators concluded that around 10 percent of research psychologists have engaged in outright falsification of data, and more than half have engaged in less brazen but still fraudulent behavior such as reporting that a result was statistically significant when it was not, or deciding between two different data analysis techniques after looking at the results of each and choosing the more favorable.

Many forms of statistical falsification are devilishly difficult to catch, or close enough to a genuine judgment call to provide plausible deniability. Data analysis is very much an art, and one that affords even its most scrupulous practitioners a wide degree of latitude. Which of these two statistical tests, both applicable to this situation, should be used? Should a subpopulation of the research sample with some common criterion be picked out and reanalyzed as if it were the totality? Which of the hundreds of coincident factors measured should be controlled for, and how? The same freedom that empowers a statistician to pick a true signal out of the noise also enables a dishonest scientist to manufacture nearly any result he or she wishes. Cajoling statistical significance where in reality there is none, a practice commonly known as “p-hacking,” is particularly easy to accomplish and difficult to detect on a case-by-case basis. And since the vast majority of studies still do not report their raw data along with their findings, there is often nothing to re-analyze and check even if there were volunteers with the time and inclination to do so.

One creative attempt to estimate how widespread such dishonesty really is involves comparisons between fields of varying “hardness.” The author, Daniele Fanelli, theorized that the farther from physics one gets, the more freedom creeps into one’s experimental methodology, and the fewer constraints there are on a scientist’s conscious and unconscious biases. If all scientists were constantly attempting to influence the results of their analyses, but had more opportunities to do so the “softer” the science, then we might expect that the social sciences have more papers that confirm a sought-after hypothesis than do the physical sciences, with medicine and biology somewhere in the middle. This is exactly what the study discovered: A paper in psychology or psychiatry is about five times as likely to report a positive result as one in astrophysics. This is not necessarily evidence that psychologists are all consciously or unconsciously manipulating their data—it could also be evidence of massive publication bias—but either way, the result is disturbing.

Speaking of physics, how do things go with this hardest of all hard sciences? Better than elsewhere, it would appear, and it’s unsurprising that those who claim all is well in the world of science reach so reliably and so insistently for examples from physics, preferably of the most theoretical sort. Folk histories of physics combine borrowed mathematical luster and Whiggish triumphalism in a way that journalists seem powerless to resist. The outcomes of physics experiments and astronomical observations seem so matter-of-fact, so concretely and immediately connected to underlying reality, that they might let us gingerly sidestep all of these issues concerning motivated or sloppy analysis and interpretation. “E pur si muove,” Galileo is said to have remarked, and one can almost hear in his sigh the hopes of a hundred science journalists for whom it would be all too convenient if Nature were always willing to tell us whose theory is more correct.

And yet the flight to physics rather gives the game away, since measured any way you like—volume of papers, number of working researchers, total amount of funding—deductive, theory-building physics in the mold of Newton and Lagrange, Maxwell and Einstein, is a tiny fraction of modern science as a whole. In fact, it also makes up a tiny fraction of modern physics. Far more common is the delicate and subtle art of scouring inconceivably vast volumes of noise with advanced software and mathematical tools in search of the faintest signal of some hypothesized but never before observed phenomenon, whether an astrophysical event or the decay of a subatomic particle. This sort of work is difficult and beautiful in its own way, but it is not at all self-evident in the manner of a falling apple or an elliptical planetary orbit, and it is very sensitive to the same sorts of accidental contamination, deliberate fraud, and unconscious bias as the medical and social-scientific studies we have discussed. Two of the most vaunted physics results of the past few years—the announced discovery of both cosmic inflation and gravitational waves at the BICEP2 experiment in Antarctica, and the supposed discovery of superluminal neutrinos at the Swiss-Italian border—have now been retracted, with far less fanfare than when they were first published.

Many defenders of the scientific establishment will admit to this problem, then offer hymns to the self-correcting nature of the scientific method. Yes, the path is rocky, they say, but peer review, competition between researchers, and the comforting fact that there is an objective reality out there whose test every theory must withstand or fail, all conspire to mean that sloppiness, bad luck, and even fraud are exposed and swept away by the advances of the field.

So the dogma goes. But these claims are rarely treated like hypotheses to be tested. Partisans of the new scientism are fond of recounting the “Sokal hoax”—physicist Alan Sokal submitted a paper heavy on jargon but full of false and meaningless statements to the postmodern cultural studies journal Social Text, which accepted and published it without quibble—but are unlikely to mention a similar experiment conducted on reviewers of the prestigious British Medical Journal. The experimenters deliberately modified a paper to include eight different major errors in study design, methodology, data analysis, and interpretation of results, and not a single one of the 221 reviewers who participated caught all of the errors. On average, they caught fewer than two—and, unbelievably, these results held up even in the subset of reviewers who had been specifically warned that they were participating in a study and that there might be something a little odd in the paper that they were reviewing. In all, only 30 percent of reviewers recommended that the intentionally flawed paper be rejected.

If peer review is good at anything, it appears to be keeping unpopular ideas from being published. Consider the finding of another (yes, another) of these replicability studies, this time from a group of cancer researchers. In addition to reaching the now unsurprising conclusion that only a dismal 11 percent of the preclinical cancer research they examined could be validated after the fact, the authors identified another horrifying pattern: The “bad” papers that failed to replicate were, on average, cited far more often than the papers that did! As the authors put it, “some non-reproducible preclinical papers had spawned an entire field, with hundreds of secondary publications that expanded on elements of the original observation, but did not actually seek to confirm or falsify its fundamental basis.”

What they do not mention is that once an entire field has been created—with careers, funding, appointments, and prestige all premised upon an experimental result which was utterly false due either to fraud or to plain bad luck—pointing this fact out is not likely to be very popular. Peer review switches from merely useless to actively harmful. It may be ineffective at keeping papers with analytic or methodological flaws from being published, but it can be deadly effective at suppressing criticism of a dominant research paradigm. Even if a critic is able to get his work published, pointing out that the house you’ve built together is situated over a chasm will not endear him to his colleagues or, more importantly, to his mentors and patrons.

Older scientists contribute to the propagation of scientific fields in ways that go beyond educating and mentoring a new generation. In many fields, it’s common for an established and respected researcher to serve as “senior author” on a bright young star’s first few publications, lending his prestige and credibility to the result, and signaling to reviewers that he stands behind it. In the natural sciences and medicine, senior scientists are frequently the controllers of laboratory resources—which these days include not just scientific instruments, but dedicated staffs of grant proposal writers and regulatory compliance experts—without which a young scientist has no hope of accomplishing significant research. Older scientists control access to scientific prestige by serving on the editorial boards of major journals and on university tenure-review committees. Finally, the government bodies that award the vast majority of scientific funding are either staffed or advised by distinguished practitioners in the field.

All of which makes it rather more bothersome that older scientists are the most likely to be invested in the regnant research paradigm, whatever it is, even if it’s based on an old experiment that has never successfully been replicated. The quantum physicist Max Planck famously quipped: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” Planck may have been too optimistic. A recent paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research studied what happens to scientific subfields when star researchers die suddenly and at the peak of their abilities, and finds that while there is considerable evidence that young researchers are reluctant to challenge scientific superstars, a sudden and unexpected death does not significantly improve the situation, particularly when “key collaborators of the star are in a position to channel resources (such as editorial goodwill or funding) to insiders.”

In the idealized Popperian view of scientific progress, new theories are proposed to explain new evidence that contradicts the predictions of old theories. The heretical philosopher of science Paul Feyerabend, on the other hand, claimed that new theories frequently contradict the best available evidence—at least at first. Often, the old observations were inaccurate or irrelevant, and it was the invention of a new theory that stimulated experimentalists to go hunting for new observational techniques to test it. But the success of this “unofficial” process depends on a blithe disregard for evidence while the vulnerable young theory weathers an initial storm of skepticism. Yet if Feyerabend is correct, and an unpopular new theory can ignore or reject experimental data long enough to get its footing, how much longer can an old and creaky theory, buttressed by the reputations and influence and political power of hundreds of established practitioners, continue to hang in the air even when the results upon which it is premised are exposed as false?

The hagiographies of science are full of paeans to the self-correcting, self-healing nature of the enterprise. But if raw results are so often false, the filtering mechanisms so ineffective, and the self-correcting mechanisms so compromised and slow, then science’s approach to truth may not even be monotonic. That is, past theories, now “refuted” by evidence and replaced with new approaches, may be closer to the truth than what we think now. Such regress has happened before: In the nineteenth century, the (correct) vitamin C deficiency theory of scurvy was replaced by the false belief that scurvy was caused by proximity to spoiled foods. Many ancient astronomers believed the heliocentric model of the solar system before it was supplanted by the geocentric theory of Ptolemy. The Whiggish view of scientific history is so dominant today that this possibility is spoken of only in hushed whispers, but ours is a world in which things once known can be lost and buried.

And even if self-correction does occur and theories move strictly along a lifecycle from less to more accurate, what if the unremitting flood of new, mostly false, results pours in faster? Too fast for the sclerotic, compromised truth-discerning mechanisms of science to operate? The result could be a growing body of true theories completely overwhelmed by an ever-larger thicket of baseless theories, such that the proportion of true scientific beliefs shrinks even while the absolute number of them continues to rise. Borges’s Library of Babel contained every true book that could ever be written, but it was useless because it also contained every false book, and both true and false were lost within an ocean of nonsense.

Which brings us to the odd moment in which we live. At the same time as an ever more bloated scientific bureaucracy churns out masses of research results, the majority of which are likely outright false, scientists themselves are lauded as heroes and science is upheld as the only legitimate basis for policy-making. There’s reason to believe that these phenomena are linked. When a formerly ascetic discipline suddenly attains a measure of influence, it is bound to be flooded by opportunists and charlatans, whether it’s the National Academy of Science or the monastery of Cluny.

This comparison is not as outrageous as it seems: Like monasticism, science is an enterprise with a superhuman aim whose achievement is forever beyond the capacities of the flawed humans who aspire toward it. The best scientists know that they must practice a sort of mortification of the ego and cultivate a dispassion that allows them to report their findings, even when those findings might mean the dashing of hopes, the drying up of financial resources, and the loss of professional prestige. It should be no surprise that even after outgrowing the monasteries, the practice of science has attracted souls driven to seek the truth regardless of personal cost and despite, for most of its history, a distinct lack of financial or status reward. Now, however, science and especially science bureaucracy is a career, and one amenable to social climbing. Careers attract careerists, in Feyerabend’s words: “devoid of ideas, full of fear, intent on producing some paltry result so that they can add to the flood of inane papers that now constitutes ‘scientific progress’ in many areas.”

If science was unprepared for the influx of careerists, it was even less prepared for the blossoming of the Cult of Science. The Cult is related to the phenomenon described as “scientism”; both have a tendency to treat the body of scientific knowledge as a holy book or an a-religious revelation that offers simple and decisive resolutions to deep questions. But it adds to this a pinch of glib frivolity and a dash of unembarrassed ignorance. Its rhetorical tics include a forced enthusiasm (a search on Twitter for the hashtag “#sciencedancing” speaks volumes) and a penchant for profanity. Here in Silicon Valley, one can scarcely go a day without seeing a t-shirt reading “Science: It works, b—es!” The hero of the recent popular movie The Martian boasts that he will “science the sh— out of” a situation. One of the largest groups on Facebook is titled “I f—ing love Science!” (a name which, combined with the group’s penchant for posting scarcely any actual scientific material but a lot of pictures of natural phenomena, has prompted more than one actual scientist of my acquaintance to mutter under her breath, “What you truly love is pictures”). Some of the Cult’s leaders like to play dress-up as scientists—Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson are two particularly prominent examples— but hardly any of them have contributed any research results of note. Rather, Cult leadership trends heavily in the direction of educators, popularizers, and journalists.

At its best, science is a human enterprise with a superhuman aim: the discovery of regularities in the order of nature, and the discerning of the consequences of those regularities. We’ve seen example after example of how the human element of this enterprise harms and damages its progress, through incompetence, fraud, selfishness, prejudice, or the simple combination of an honest oversight or slip with plain bad luck. These failings need not hobble the scientific enterprise broadly conceived, but only if scientists are hyper-aware of and endlessly vigilant about the errors of their colleagues . . . and of themselves. When cultural trends attempt to render science a sort of religion-less clericalism, scientists are apt to forget that they are made of the same crooked timber as the rest of humanity and will necessarily imperil the work that they do. The greatest friends of the Cult of Science are the worst enemies of science’s actual practice.

William A. Wilson is a software engineer in the San Francisco Bay Area.

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222 Comments
Vodka
Vodka
April 13, 2016 3:44 pm

Having HSF on a forum like TBP is like having Jesus visit a biker bar. He has a gentle spirit but also a brave soul. I admire that.

Rise Up
Rise Up
April 13, 2016 3:44 pm

Ok, I think I understand the Hubble question…ultraviolet light vs. visible light spectrum.

Stucky
Stucky
April 13, 2016 3:46 pm

HF

“Question Authority”, you say. I need to make some assumptions about what you mean. They aren’t “straw men” assumptions. Neither am I pulling them out of my ass. They are based on things you yourself have written over the years. Of course, correct me if I’m wrong.

Assumption #1: You mean ALL authority. By deduction; I seriously doubt you would mean “just some” authorities, or even “most authorities”, so that leaves “all”. By implication; had you meant to qualify it by limiting its scope, you would have stated so. A normal reading of “question authority” would lead most people to mentally insert “all”.

Assumption #2: You mean ALL the time. That might be a stretch. Again, it seems to be implied. And when one considers you reject what 99.999% of all humans in the world believe, that Earth is round, then yeah it sure seems you mean all the time.

Note: Not all the questions below rely on the above assumptions. Answer all, some, or none. Your choice. Brief answers are preferred to lengthy ones.

================================================

Q1: Do you really understand what it means to question all authority? Science authorities – geology, astronomy, molecular, biology, physics … dozens and dozens of them. Religious authorities – hundreds of them. Economic authorites. Political authorities. Authorities in everyday life; your plumber, your accountant, your mechanic, your butcher, — many many dozens. We encounter literally hundreds of authorities in our daily lives.

Q2: Who in the hell has TIME to question all of them?

Q3: Is there some authority priority list you use? Always question this authority vs hardly ever that one? Maybe, for example, questioning religious authority at the very top of the list … and your plumber at the bottom?

Q4: Does your system allow for any absolutes?

[imgcomment image[/img]

For example, I consider a round earth to be an absolute. The evidence is overwhelming. And, simple. For example, the picture above is from a U-2 spy plane. Wow, the earth IS round! You disagree. Perhaps you’ll say U2 planes don’t exist, or they can’t really fly that high, and of course, the all time favorite – the pictures are doctored!! Easy to say about one picture. But, there are millions of such pictures … and for them all to be doctored or faked would require millions of conspirators. So, what are your absolutes, if any?

Q5: If you say “no” to absolutes, then how about this math formula? 1 + 1 = 2. Should I question that also?

Q6: Suppose 300 million people in America – from 2 year olds to centenarians — simultaneously start to question authority? What result would that have on society? Would it not result in chaos? At a minimum, wouldn’t it result in information overload … with 300 million voices all opining with their own bullshit? When all talk, no one is heard. So, how would ANYTHING get done?

Q7: Why are those who question authority so often focused on conspiracy bullshit? The earth is flat. Earth expands like spandex pants. There is no gravity, only electricity. All we see and observe is just a hologram. Isn’t that a fucking waste of time? If not, why not? Where does the bullshit end? Maybe the government should spend a trillion dollars to answer the age-old question; how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? With all the massive problems in America and the world, shouldn’t the focus on questioning authority be applied to issues that truly matter?

Q8: Why are those who question authority often such assholes? (NOT saying you are.) Why are they so defensive? Why do they almost immediately resort to “cognitive dissonance” accusations … as if they are immune e to such things? Why are they almost always the first to launch into ad hominin attacks? Why do you all feel so superior … and believe the rest of us are goddamned idiots? Why do these people LIE – like that Kentucky Donkey Dick sucker, Bea Lever, who says I always believe the official government story – when nothing could be further from the truth? Ok, lotta questions there – just answer the first one; why are authority questioners, like Bea Lever, often such assholes?

Lastly, I close with a conclusion. There are two types of jackass buffoons sitting at the very top of Idiot Mountain; those who question nothing, and those who question everything. Neither person uses more than a handful of brain cells in their lives. That’s the damned truth.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 13, 2016 3:49 pm

BINGO!

peaknic
peaknic
April 13, 2016 4:09 pm

I have first hand experience with the fact that replication of studies is rare in psychology. I spent a wasted year while working towards my masters in psychology because I wanted to replicate the findings of a published study using different measurement tools (other questionnaires that supposedly measured the same attributes). I conducted the research review and proposed the study for my masters thesis, and was summarily told during my final thesis committee meeting before starting the study that straight replication is not good enough – I had to study something NEW.

You’d think that this would be a great way to both train researchers and validate published findings (killing 2 birds, as it were), but nope, they only wanted “publishable” studies that could add to the prestige of the school. Thank Gd i had the perseverance to start again from scratch and eventually got the degree, with the added bonus of an extra year living in Nawlins’!

Olga
Olga
April 13, 2016 4:22 pm

I do agree that “the cult of the expert” has taken hold – as if reading and researching can only be done in the confines of academia.

The Austrian vs. Keynes [and every other] School of Economics comes to mind.

I have heard that it is impossible to get a PhD in economics in America if your research etc. concludes that something other than Keynesian is a better economic system – so any banker in any position of power to influence America is, by default, a Keynesian. Good, bad or indifferent – we the people have been told what is in our best interest.

I also suspect that the compartmentalization of various science fields inhibits advancement – and that it was done intentionally. The fewer people who see a bigger picture the better.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 13, 2016 4:40 pm

Nobody does Question Authority better than Larkin Rose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs%5B/img%5D

and

The Rules of Engagement for QA are something like this:
1. Is it a means of tax theft in disguise? Moon Landing $40 billion in 1969 dollars; AGW: $1.5 Trillion in 2016 dollars; all wars: $Multiple Trillions
2. Does it facilitate Divide and Rule? Democrat/Republican (you have no choice); All things political – don’t vote/don’t join the circus
3. Does it steal your freedom by fear mongering? Hegelian Dialectic; 911; GWOT
4. Is it a bait and switch tactic? Federal Reserve Notes (not Good as Gold)

Pick your favorites. Does it fit the pattern?

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 13, 2016 5:38 pm

Stucky- The statement 1 + 1 = 2 is not an absolute.

1 man + 1 woman (man boinks woman)= 3

There are 3 humans in the equation.

** you get drunk and hit this man and pregnant woman, they all die and you are charged with 3 counts of vehicular homicide.

BUCKHED
BUCKHED
April 13, 2016 6:49 pm

Well science always needs empirical evidence for a hypothesis is considered valid . The problem is that some scientists use “Fuzzy Math ” to get to the conclusion . It’s like the research that was done by Ancel Keys on the link between cholesterol and heart disease . A lot of folks knew he was wrong as was his research he left out data that didn’t match his hypothesis . It was Bullshit science at its finest…as is a lot of science.

I remember taking my first philosophy course and learning the difference between Rational Knowledge and Empirical Knowledge. It was the start of questioning all that I thought I knew .

It’s funny in that I learned the phrase ” Always Question Authority ” from Mad Magazine . It stuck with me all the years .

My favorite thing to do when someone quotes a “Leading Authority ” etc. I always ask if they’ve read the paper etc . In all circumstances it’s no . Or when they throw a stat out and I’ll ask where the stat came from….I never get a an answer to that one either .A lot of folks will use the Mickie D’s lawsuit as the catalyst for their argument for Tort Reform . When you ask them for the facts…they can’t give it to you…but I can. When I’m done with the facts of the case they’ll say I had no idea that is what it entailed. Once again…question authority and don’t believe the MSM .

Olde Virginian
Olde Virginian
April 13, 2016 8:38 pm

Dear Mr Farmer

I get your point. In today’s world we are overly saturated with dogma and propaganda. The person who never questions anything but truckles to go along and get along come what may by definition is a slave.

Don’t be discouraged by the vitriol that flies around here. I have to say from my own perspective after spending about two years as a stalker at the TBP I am really tiring of a lot of the sophomoric shit. I keep hearing an inner voice (pace, Heidi Cruz) tell me that I have succumbed to idolatry spending so many hours of my life in front of an effing video display. I am just about ready to make the choice to cut the cord and throw out all the e shit. My wife and kids will scream of course like heroin addicts in withdrawl.

Maybe if everybody here will be extra nice to HSF, me and everyone else I will stay.

Why the hell would they park the stupid ass moon jeep 2 miles away from the departure point? OK so they ran out of go-go juice there — so they flapped their suited-up arms and flew back to the lunar module for departure? Or maybe the foot trails are only far away from that path because they had their boots off and ran barefoot?

Stucky I started to really troll you but all I will say is this: 1 + 1 = 10. If you trust every digitized jpg image that appears on a computer screen, you surely can see the truth of that basic equation.

Stucky
Stucky
April 13, 2016 8:43 pm

Olde Virginian

Blow me, binary boy.

Is that friendly enough for ya?

Olde Virginian
Olde Virginian
April 13, 2016 8:45 pm

As a quite Young Virginian, I watched live on our color set as Neil Armstrong stepped down in glorious Black and White onto the moon and uttered his profound observation about stepping and leaping and so forth.

Ever the authority questioning type I vaguely recall thinking, what’s the point of this? Star Trek is way more entertaining and convincing.

Don’t even get me started on how they have butchered Start Trek episodes with modern cgi. Somebody took Orwell’s work of fiction as a handbook on how to organize a ministry of truth and correct the historical record. Maybe Orwell really got his hands on the actual handbook and just plagiarized and added some human interest to make 1982.

Olde Virginian
Olde Virginian
April 13, 2016 8:47 pm

That’s not very friendly but not very unpredictable either. Go wink at a horse’s clit.

Olde Virginian
Olde Virginian
April 13, 2016 8:50 pm

Thanks for the bum’s rush out of here. I may not be able to give up the digital age yet, but I am done, done, done with this place.

My respects and thanks to the proprietor for the good times I’ve had here. Though I sometimes think he and Stucky are just two sock puppets on the same hand…

Just save your fiery darts for the next person because I won’t be coming back to see them. Nyah, nyah, nyah…

Stucky
Stucky
April 13, 2016 8:52 pm

“Go wink at a horse’s clit.” ——– Olde Virginian

Would that be Mrs. Olde Virginian?

btw, “blow me” is a term of endearment around these parts.

Stucky
Stucky
April 13, 2016 8:53 pm

Olde Virginian

We hardly knew ye!

Ya pussy.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 13, 2016 9:16 pm

Damn it, Stuck, you left no meat on Old Virgin’s bones for the rest of us.

He lurked for two years. He knew the rules.

I bet his ass is sore from where the door hit him on his exit.

Araven
Araven
April 13, 2016 9:18 pm

Rob in NS, you were a dickhead because you would rather be a dickhead than have a productive conversation where someone might learn something. Don’t try to pretend you were trying to do anything else.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 13, 2016 10:02 pm

Araven

This is The Burning Platform. Not some safe space with cuddle toys. I feel bad for having a go at HSF. But he understands the rules here. You on the other hand are still butt hurt. Go get some more cream.

FOR FUCK SAKES!

Araven
Araven
April 13, 2016 11:21 pm

Dickhead – exactly who brought up my name in this thread? I’ll give you a hint since you can’t think without your head up the ass of the religion of mainstream “hard” science – it was a jackass named Rob in NS! I was over and done with this but you obviously were not or you would not have brought up my name and tried to rationalize your behavior towards me in the previous thread when it was obvious you were just being a jackass. I call you out on your revisionist history and I’m the one who’s butthurt? Get a life Jackass.

I question everything, jackass! I may even question whether or not you are a jackass… Nope, I have boatloads of hard evidence on that one, it’s a slam dunk.

There are no rules here other than those the Admin puts forth, so don’t lecture me about following the rules, Mr “I sure can dish it out but I obviously can’t take it” jackass.

I’m done with this, you are so obviously into yourself and the mindset TPTB have supplied you with that you make me gag. Have a good life in the fantasy world you have created. And, hey, perk up because you’re going to get the last word! That always perks you up!

Ed
Ed
April 13, 2016 11:45 pm

” I do think we went to the Moon more than once. ”

Well, what did y’all do the second time? Where did you sit on the landing module thang? Hey, wait, were you even born back then? Why did y’all just quit going all of a sudden? Why don’t y’all have any of that technology left?

If you didn’t really mean to say you went to the moon yourself, then where’d you get this “we” shit?

Ed
Ed
April 13, 2016 11:50 pm

“So he believes we landed on the moon.”

Yo, Jimbo, I missed the part where he said he believes that y’all landed on the moon.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 13, 2016 11:52 pm

HSF, just two quibbles:

You equate Edison – a tinkerer – with Copernicus and Tesla? These 2 guys were scientists.

Some idiot posted a bunch of American inventions as proof of American white superiority. Whatever. They were all East Europeans that gave us and the rest of the world the real inventions, radio and television, that flourished and abounded after the turn of the last century.

The space race got us all the electronic gizmos we enjoy today. Hitler derided Americans as clever tinkerers, skilled in the art of making better washing machines.

All these proud ‘whites’ walking around patting themselves on the back for being superior are astonishingly AWOL when you consider the ratio of scientists of Einstein’s caliber to 300 million generic whites.

Hell, we stole the German space program and scientists before the Ruskies could get them. It wasn’t Roswell, it was Hitler that got us out of the dark ages.

Nobody has made any progress in physics. Where’s the grand unified theory of everything? How the fuck does light travel through space? What quickening agent, element or spark gives matter life?

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 13, 2016 11:54 pm

OK, so Goddard inspired the Germans and pointed them in the right direction. I’ll grant you that point.

Ed
Ed
April 13, 2016 11:56 pm

Well, here’s a question on this subject:

If some nosepicker comes up to me and says “My name is Jack Ketch, an I’m the Loakel Tharty round here.” and I say, “what the fuck are you talkin about?”….

Am I questionin a tharty?

ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
April 14, 2016 12:01 am

What annoys me the most is we jump from “scientific papers are faked” to conspiracy theories in the space of three stucky’s nuts. (its an official unit of measure)

There is a shit ton wrong with how science is done, from a professional perspective. This does not mean that the scientific method is itself, bogus.

Big topic, not in the mood for it, so lets do a 4 point list.

1. Too much politics in science (and everything else)
2. Too much money in science (and everything else…especially politics)
3. Too expensive to do most science to the degree of precision that is required for a scientific paper.
4. We’ve picked most of the low hanging fruit and no longer have the luxury of isolating variables to solve problems, now we must analyze entire systems. Its harder.

There. I contributed.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 14, 2016 12:11 am

PC, it does seem that being on the wrong side of scientific investigation can get you de-funded. What has changed from Copernicus’ time? The government is the new Mother Church.

Vodka
Vodka
April 14, 2016 12:52 am

As much as I hate to agree with El Coyote (currently posting as Full Retard), he makes some rock-solid points in his last couple of comments.

EC: just post as yourself. The “Full Retard” thing is beneath you.

Acrow
Acrow
April 14, 2016 1:00 am

Is it just me or does that Araven sound like a big fat whiny crybaby?

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 5:42 am

Araven

aw you hurt my feewings

Not

Not sure where you learned rhetoric but go back and relearn. Right now you are failing big time. Maybe Admin can post the rules you speak of. Unbelevievable!

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 5:44 am

That if if yiu couldn’t figure it out is a joke.

Whatta Maroon!

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
April 14, 2016 8:42 am

My title was Question Authority, not Question Reality.

Authority is best described as anyone (or group or tribe or political/theological entity) that holds more power over you than you are able to claim for yourself.

Taking away a person’s freedom and keeping them locked up in a cage away from their life and loved ones because they choose to use a plant is an example of Authority. Whatever their reasoning may be, whatever science they may use to promote their authority, that should be questioned. I do not need to ask “does water freeze at 32 degrees Fahrenheit?” because I can and have proven that to myself repeatedly and with accuracy, as can anyone else with two eyeballs and heartbeat.

The Federal Government has stripped away trillions of dollars from it’s population against its will by threat of force or imprisonment in order to promote certain programs, many of which are harmful to the population. Whatever positions they offer do not serve as proofs and ought to be questioned. Evidence of their corruption, sloth, irresponsibility and criminality has been proven over and over to such and extent it would be irresponsible to allow them any degree of trust based on their claim of authority. They are the problem, not science.

I think that should answer many of Stucky’s questions. And no, going around asking questions all the time isn’t some kind of burden or condition, it’s enthralling, exciting, stimulating and immensely satisfying. You have to remember that I spend the vast majority of my time working by myself with my own thoughts. Every day since I started down the path of agrarianism I learn some profound truth or new piece of information, often things that I should have learned a long time ago if only I had been paying closer attention. Every day is a learning experience. The time I spend here or in the company of like minded individuals is extremely limited and because of this I probably come across as verbose and boorish, neither aspect of my personality I admire or wish to sustain. In fact I hope I one day get to the point where I no longer have anything to say, like Siddartha. My daily life is one of quiet introspection for the bulk of my waking hours. If I go off it’s because I am excited about the things I have been pondering, not some kind of subversive exercise in sowing discord. I respect the Admin’s space and simply wish to add what I am able to offer.

Hope that helps.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 8:47 am

I see Stucky has manipulated the downers somehow………..typical.

Teri
Teri
April 14, 2016 8:58 am

I used to work in ag research at a university. I experienced skewed “scientific” results up close and personal (my, my the egos of the head researchers!). That experience is a large part of why I’m such a skeptic.

Downright scary that this stuff goes on in drug and medical research. We’re nothing but guinea pigs.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
April 14, 2016 9:06 am

Bea Leaver- I always enjoy your contributions, sorry if I have not been better at responding- there’s always big breaks between when I post and when I can get back to read again. And my short term memory is not what it used to be.

Plus my short term memory is not what it used to be.

Stucky
Stucky
April 14, 2016 9:40 am

HF explains himself well in his post @8:42. We lost another poster in Olde Virginian. Rob kicked the snot out of Araven. Even The Pope showed up. We discovered that “Full Retard” is actually El Coyote. And, Bea Lever is a dick right to the very end.

Another excellent thread!

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 10:09 am

It does HSF.

Thanks.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
April 14, 2016 10:10 am

Hear hear Stucky! The best TBP posts are the ones where sacred cows are gutted, friends call one another names and someone leaves in a snit. Well done I say everyone. Well done!

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Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 10:13 am

Oh yeah and I’m the Man on the Moon!

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 10:30 am

He does

fact or fiction

He should write a piece about it and expand thought.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
April 14, 2016 10:39 am

“…where do you draw the line between fact and fiction?”

Demonstrable, repeatable, conclusive.

Attempts to protect data due to being “classified” are not to be accepeted until such time as they are made public.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 10:45 am

HF- Now that you have addressed me, could I ask a serious question?

Please give us a no BS honest answer. Do you really think the Earth could be flat and are you sincere that we did not go to the moon?

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 14, 2016 10:48 am

facepalms

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 10:48 am

Stucky, what kind of maroon states that my sister licks my balls and THEN calls ME a dick? Really?

Man On the Moon
Man On the Moon
April 14, 2016 11:00 am

Bea

How come you haven’t changed your name to IRS Bitch yet?

MOTM getting angry!

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 11:11 am

Look MOTM, I know they want this thread to close out but I GOTS TO KNOW. Does HF just pull our chains or is he sincere?

He can just say (no) or (sincere)…………….that’s all that I ask.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 11:14 am

Rob- You are the new DRUD lap dog……………

Facepalms…………..who are you to facepalm anyone?

Stucky
Stucky
April 14, 2016 11:21 am

“Stucky, what kind of maroon states that my sister licks my balls and THEN calls ME a dick? Really?” ———-Bea Lever

You poke the bear … and then you’re surprised when the bear bites?

You can call me; asshole, bully, know-it-all, funny guy, opinionated, chicken choker, shit flinger, doppleganging motherfucker, Moobsman …. and I wouldn’t get all that upset, because there’s a ring of truth in it.

But, when YOU LIE, then all bets are off. You know how to press my button, and you do so at times with abandon with your taunts and sarcasm. And then YOU act the victim?? Hilarious.

I will not remain silent forever when you spread your bullshit about me always trusting the government, always believing and siding with the status quo, never questioning anything, and whatever lying diarrhea you vomit forth.

Even God hates you when you do that, for he has written ——> “Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!” —- Psalm 105:15

You violate that command at your own risk.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 11:33 am

OH BROTHER !!

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 14, 2016 12:00 pm

Who’s offended? Certainly not me.

Stucky the bible thumper is preaching at me…………..now that’s funny.