Question Authority

Guest Post by Hardscrabble Farmer

It’s easy to dismiss people who have no scientific credentials when they question scientific discoveries. The reasoning is that because they are untrained and have no formal training their input is not relevant if it counters established policy or position. To some degree this is a valid point, but we must also recall that men like Tesla, Copernicus and Edison were not degree holding scientists and their contributions to the field are beyond compare. Science is about observation, testable explanations and predictions about the mechanics of the physical world.

Anyone can perform a simple experiment, we teach the discipline to children, we use our knowledge daily in the act of living our lives, from boiling water to cleaning our homes. Many experiments require complex equipment, costly environments and extensive knowledge of mathematics and physics, and so people delegate these outcomes to those with access, trusting them to be truthful and without guile about the results. Often, due to the costs associated, scientists must rely on funding from government, academic institutions and corporate sponsors. Often there are strings attached and certain results desired.

It is a rare person who can stand up to both authority and the man who controls the financial strings that come with these arrangements. A former neighbor of mine was the CEO of one of the largest polling organizations in the country. Most people believe that polling is based on scientific sampling of populations in order to better understand opinions with narrow margins of error. During one particular discussion I asked him how he was able to determine with certainty what a given opinion was and he said, “That’s easy, it’s whatever the guy who writes the check wants it to be.”

The greatest single lesson I ever learned from my Father, the best teacher I ever had, was to question authority. He was the one who taught me about men like Stanley Milgram and Tomas de Torquemada and the lessons of blind acquiescence to men in positions of authority. I didn’t always listen to him and some of my only regrets in life are tied to my failure to remember what he taught me.

As I become older and the bonds of social acceptance and approval become increasingly meaningless, I have begun to look into things that stir my curiosity, to test for myself long held beliefs based on the observations and conclusions of others, to see if I can replicate the same solutions to my satisfaction. I understand that there are some things that I will never know and I guess I can live with that, but nothing will ever keep me from following that thread that leads me to some kind of understanding of the mechanics of the world. It is far too beautiful to allow someone else to experience that for me.

Open Science Collaboration is a group that tests scientific research under the same criteria as the peer reviewed papers that have already been published, in numerous disciplines. As the article below shows, the majority of those tested fail to reach the original conclusions, even when the original scientists collaborate under the same conditions. Peer review used to mean peer duplicated. Today over 90% of all peer reviewed work is not duplicated, merely proofread by fellow scientists.

That is a problem and it leads to doubt, justifiably. As I have posted in other threads in the past I no longer trust the official narrative of numerous disciplines, not because they are necessarily false, but because the authority that stands behind the claims has proven itself to be unreliable and no longer worthy of trust. As much as I am saddened by no longer accepting the uplifting stories of mankind’s greatest accomplishments, it is far more depressing to think that the reason behind it is the duplicity and deception of the very authority that may have made those successes a possibility.

 

Scientific Regress by William A. Wilson

The problem with ­science is that so much of it simply isn’t. Last summer, the Open Science Collaboration announced that it had tried to replicate one hundred published psychology experiments sampled from three of the most prestigious journals in the field. Scientific claims rest on the idea that experiments repeated under nearly identical conditions ought to yield approximately the same results, but until very recently, very few had bothered to check in a systematic way whether this was actually the case. The OSC was the biggest attempt yet to check a field’s results, and the most shocking. In many cases, they had used original experimental materials, and sometimes even performed the experiments under the guidance of the original researchers. Of the studies that had originally reported positive results, an astonishing 65 percent failed to show statistical significance on replication, and many of the remainder showed greatly reduced effect sizes.

Their findings made the news, and quickly became a club with which to bash the social sciences. But the problem isn’t just with psychology. There’s an ­unspoken rule in the pharmaceutical industry that half of all academic biomedical research will ultimately prove false, and in 2011 a group of researchers at Bayer decided to test it. Looking at sixty-seven recent drug discovery projects based on preclinical cancer biology research, they found that in more than 75 percent of cases the published data did not match up with their in-house attempts to replicate. These were not studies published in fly-by-night oncology journals, but blockbuster research featured in Science, Nature, Cell, and the like. The Bayer researchers were drowning in bad studies, and it was to this, in part, that they attributed the mysteriously declining yields of drug pipelines. Perhaps so many of these new drugs fail to have an effect because the basic research on which their development was based isn’t valid.

When a study fails to replicate, there are two possible interpretations. The first is that, unbeknownst to the investigators, there was a real difference in experimental setup between the original investigation and the failed replication. These are colloquially referred to as “wallpaper effects,” the joke being that the experiment was affected by the color of the wallpaper in the room. This is the happiest possible explanation for failure to reproduce: It means that both experiments have revealed facts about the universe, and we now have the opportunity to learn what the difference was between them and to incorporate a new and subtler distinction into our theories.

The other interpretation is that the original finding was false. Unfortunately, an ingenious statistical argument shows that this second interpretation is far more likely. First articulated by John Ioannidis, a professor at Stanford University’s School of Medicine, this argument proceeds by a simple application of Bayesian statistics. Suppose that there are a hundred and one stones in a certain field. One of them has a diamond inside it, and, luckily, you have a diamond-detecting device that advertises 99 percent accuracy. After an hour or so of moving the device around, examining each stone in turn, suddenly alarms flash and sirens wail while the device is pointed at a promising-looking stone. What is the probability that the stone contains a diamond?

Most would say that if the device advertises 99 percent accuracy, then there is a 99 percent chance that the device is correctly discerning a diamond, and a 1 percent chance that it has given a false positive reading. But consider: Of the one hundred and one stones in the field, only one is truly a diamond. Granted, our machine has a very high probability of correctly declaring it to be a diamond. But there are many more diamond-free stones, and while the machine only has a 1 percent chance of falsely declaring each of them to be a diamond, there are a hundred of them. So if we were to wave the detector over every stone in the field, it would, on average, sound twice—once for the real diamond, and once when a false reading was triggered by a stone. If we know only that the alarm has sounded, these two possibilities are roughly equally probable, giving us an approximately 50 percent chance that the stone really contains a diamond.

This is a simplified version of the argument that Ioannidis applies to the process of science itself. The stones in the field are the set of all possible testable hypotheses, the diamond is a hypothesized connection or effect that happens to be true, and the diamond-detecting device is the scientific method. A tremendous amount depends on the proportion of possible hypotheses which turn out to be true, and on the accuracy with which an experiment can discern truth from falsehood. Ioannidis shows that for a wide variety of scientific settings and fields, the values of these two parameters are not at all favorable.

For instance, consider a team of molecular biologists investigating whether a mutation in one of the countless thousands of human genes is linked to an increased risk of Alzheimer’s. The probability of a randomly selected mutation in a randomly selected gene having precisely that effect is quite low, so just as with the stones in the field, a positive finding is more likely than not to be spurious—unless the experiment is unbelievably successful at sorting the wheat from the chaff. Indeed, Ioannidis finds that in many cases, approaching even 50 percent true positives requires unimaginable accuracy. Hence the eye-catching title of his paper: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False.”

What about accuracy? Here, too, the news is not good. First, it is a de facto standard in many fields to use one in twenty as an acceptable cutoff for the rate of false positives. To the naive ear, that may sound promising: Surely it means that just 5 percent of scientific studies report a false positive? But this is precisely the same mistake as thinking that a stone has a 99 percent chance of containing a ­diamond just because the detector has sounded. What it really means is that for each of the countless false hypo­theses that are contemplated by researchers, we accept a 5 percent chance that it will be falsely counted as true—a decision with a considerably more deleterious effect on the proportion of correct studies.

Paradoxically, the situation is actually made worse by the fact that a promising connection is often studied by several independent teams. To see why, suppose that three groups of researchers are studying a phenomenon, and when all the data are analyzed, one group announces that it has discovered a connection, but the other two find nothing of note. Assuming that all the tests involved have a high statistical power, the lone positive finding is almost certainly the spurious one. However, when it comes time to report these findings, what happens? The teams that found a negative result may not even bother to write up their non-discovery. After all, a report that a fanciful connection probably isn’t true is not the stuff of which scientific prizes, grant money, and tenure decisions are made.

And even if they did write it up, it probably wouldn’t be accepted for publication. Journals are in competition with one another for attention and “impact factor,” and are always more eager to report a new, exciting finding than a killjoy failure to find an association. In fact, both of these effects can be quantified. Since the majority of all investigated hypotheses are false, if positive and negative evidence were written up and accepted for publication in equal proportions, then the majority of articles in scientific journals should report no findings. When tallies are actually made, though, the precise opposite turns out to be true: Nearly every published scientific article reports the presence of an association. There must be massive bias at work.

Ioannidis’s argument would be potent even if all scientists were angels motivated by the best of intentions, but when the human element is considered, the picture becomes truly dismal. Scientists have long been aware of something euphemistically called the “experimenter effect”: the curious fact that when a phenomenon is investigated by a researcher who happens to believe in the phenomenon, it is far more likely to be detected. Much of the effect can likely be explained by researchers unconsciously giving hints or suggestions to their human or animal subjects, perhaps in something as subtle as body language or tone of voice. Even those with the best of intentions have been caught fudging measurements, or making small errors in rounding or in statistical analysis that happen to give a more favorable result. Very often, this is just the result of an honest statistical error that leads to a desirable outcome, and therefore it isn’t checked as deliberately as it might have been had it pointed in the opposite direction.

But, and there is no putting it nicely, deliberate fraud is far more widespread than the scientific establishment is generally willing to admit. One way we know that there’s a great deal of fraud occurring is that if you phrase your question the right way, ­scientists will confess to it. In a survey of two thousand research psychologists conducted in 2011, over half of those surveyed admitted outright to selectively reporting those experiments which gave the result they were after. Then the investigators asked respondents anonymously to estimate how many of their fellow scientists had engaged in fraudulent behavior, and promised them that the more accurate their guesses, the larger a contribution would be made to the charity of their choice. Through several rounds of anonymous guessing, refined using the number of scientists who would admit their own fraud and other indirect measurements, the investigators concluded that around 10 percent of research psychologists have engaged in outright falsification of data, and more than half have engaged in less brazen but still fraudulent behavior such as reporting that a result was statistically significant when it was not, or deciding between two different data analysis techniques after looking at the results of each and choosing the more favorable.

Many forms of statistical falsification are devilishly difficult to catch, or close enough to a genuine judgment call to provide plausible deniability. Data analysis is very much an art, and one that affords even its most scrupulous practitioners a wide degree of latitude. Which of these two statistical tests, both applicable to this situation, should be used? Should a subpopulation of the research sample with some common criterion be picked out and reanalyzed as if it were the totality? Which of the hundreds of coincident factors measured should be controlled for, and how? The same freedom that empowers a statistician to pick a true signal out of the noise also enables a dishonest scientist to manufacture nearly any result he or she wishes. Cajoling statistical significance where in reality there is none, a practice commonly known as “p-hacking,” is particularly easy to accomplish and difficult to detect on a case-by-case basis. And since the vast majority of studies still do not report their raw data along with their findings, there is often nothing to re-analyze and check even if there were volunteers with the time and inclination to do so.

One creative attempt to estimate how widespread such dishonesty really is involves comparisons between fields of varying “hardness.” The author, Daniele Fanelli, theorized that the farther from physics one gets, the more freedom creeps into one’s experimental methodology, and the fewer constraints there are on a scientist’s conscious and unconscious biases. If all scientists were constantly attempting to influence the results of their analyses, but had more opportunities to do so the “softer” the science, then we might expect that the social sciences have more papers that confirm a sought-after hypothesis than do the physical sciences, with medicine and biology somewhere in the middle. This is exactly what the study discovered: A paper in psychology or psychiatry is about five times as likely to report a positive result as one in astrophysics. This is not necessarily evidence that psychologists are all consciously or unconsciously manipulating their data—it could also be evidence of massive publication bias—but either way, the result is disturbing.

Speaking of physics, how do things go with this hardest of all hard sciences? Better than elsewhere, it would appear, and it’s unsurprising that those who claim all is well in the world of science reach so reliably and so insistently for examples from physics, preferably of the most theoretical sort. Folk histories of physics combine borrowed mathematical luster and Whiggish triumphalism in a way that journalists seem powerless to resist. The outcomes of physics experiments and astronomical observations seem so matter-of-fact, so concretely and immediately connected to underlying reality, that they might let us gingerly sidestep all of these issues concerning motivated or sloppy analysis and interpretation. “E pur si muove,” Galileo is said to have remarked, and one can almost hear in his sigh the hopes of a hundred science journalists for whom it would be all too convenient if Nature were always willing to tell us whose theory is more correct.

And yet the flight to physics rather gives the game away, since measured any way you like—volume of papers, number of working researchers, total amount of funding—deductive, theory-building physics in the mold of Newton and Lagrange, Maxwell and Einstein, is a tiny fraction of modern science as a whole. In fact, it also makes up a tiny fraction of modern physics. Far more common is the delicate and subtle art of scouring inconceivably vast volumes of noise with advanced software and mathematical tools in search of the faintest signal of some hypothesized but never before observed phenomenon, whether an astrophysical event or the decay of a subatomic particle. This sort of work is difficult and beautiful in its own way, but it is not at all self-evident in the manner of a falling apple or an elliptical planetary orbit, and it is very sensitive to the same sorts of accidental contamination, deliberate fraud, and unconscious bias as the medical and social-scientific studies we have discussed. Two of the most vaunted physics results of the past few years—the announced discovery of both cosmic inflation and gravitational waves at the BICEP2 experiment in Antarctica, and the supposed discovery of superluminal neutrinos at the Swiss-Italian border—have now been retracted, with far less fanfare than when they were first published.

Many defenders of the scientific establishment will admit to this problem, then offer hymns to the self-correcting nature of the scientific method. Yes, the path is rocky, they say, but peer review, competition between researchers, and the comforting fact that there is an objective reality out there whose test every theory must withstand or fail, all conspire to mean that sloppiness, bad luck, and even fraud are exposed and swept away by the advances of the field.

So the dogma goes. But these claims are rarely treated like hypotheses to be tested. Partisans of the new scientism are fond of recounting the “Sokal hoax”—physicist Alan Sokal submitted a paper heavy on jargon but full of false and meaningless statements to the postmodern cultural studies journal Social Text, which accepted and published it without quibble—but are unlikely to mention a similar experiment conducted on reviewers of the prestigious British Medical Journal. The experimenters deliberately modified a paper to include eight different major errors in study design, methodology, data analysis, and interpretation of results, and not a single one of the 221 reviewers who participated caught all of the errors. On average, they caught fewer than two—and, unbelievably, these results held up even in the subset of reviewers who had been specifically warned that they were participating in a study and that there might be something a little odd in the paper that they were reviewing. In all, only 30 percent of reviewers recommended that the intentionally flawed paper be rejected.

If peer review is good at anything, it appears to be keeping unpopular ideas from being published. Consider the finding of another (yes, another) of these replicability studies, this time from a group of cancer researchers. In addition to reaching the now unsurprising conclusion that only a dismal 11 percent of the preclinical cancer research they examined could be validated after the fact, the authors identified another horrifying pattern: The “bad” papers that failed to replicate were, on average, cited far more often than the papers that did! As the authors put it, “some non-reproducible preclinical papers had spawned an entire field, with hundreds of secondary publications that expanded on elements of the original observation, but did not actually seek to confirm or falsify its fundamental basis.”

What they do not mention is that once an entire field has been created—with careers, funding, appointments, and prestige all premised upon an experimental result which was utterly false due either to fraud or to plain bad luck—pointing this fact out is not likely to be very popular. Peer review switches from merely useless to actively harmful. It may be ineffective at keeping papers with analytic or methodological flaws from being published, but it can be deadly effective at suppressing criticism of a dominant research paradigm. Even if a critic is able to get his work published, pointing out that the house you’ve built together is situated over a chasm will not endear him to his colleagues or, more importantly, to his mentors and patrons.

Older scientists contribute to the propagation of scientific fields in ways that go beyond educating and mentoring a new generation. In many fields, it’s common for an established and respected researcher to serve as “senior author” on a bright young star’s first few publications, lending his prestige and credibility to the result, and signaling to reviewers that he stands behind it. In the natural sciences and medicine, senior scientists are frequently the controllers of laboratory resources—which these days include not just scientific instruments, but dedicated staffs of grant proposal writers and regulatory compliance experts—without which a young scientist has no hope of accomplishing significant research. Older scientists control access to scientific prestige by serving on the editorial boards of major journals and on university tenure-review committees. Finally, the government bodies that award the vast majority of scientific funding are either staffed or advised by distinguished practitioners in the field.

All of which makes it rather more bothersome that older scientists are the most likely to be invested in the regnant research paradigm, whatever it is, even if it’s based on an old experiment that has never successfully been replicated. The quantum physicist Max Planck famously quipped: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” Planck may have been too optimistic. A recent paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research studied what happens to scientific subfields when star researchers die suddenly and at the peak of their abilities, and finds that while there is considerable evidence that young researchers are reluctant to challenge scientific superstars, a sudden and unexpected death does not significantly improve the situation, particularly when “key collaborators of the star are in a position to channel resources (such as editorial goodwill or funding) to insiders.”

In the idealized Popperian view of scientific progress, new theories are proposed to explain new evidence that contradicts the predictions of old theories. The heretical philosopher of science Paul Feyerabend, on the other hand, claimed that new theories frequently contradict the best available evidence—at least at first. Often, the old observations were inaccurate or irrelevant, and it was the invention of a new theory that stimulated experimentalists to go hunting for new observational techniques to test it. But the success of this “unofficial” process depends on a blithe disregard for evidence while the vulnerable young theory weathers an initial storm of skepticism. Yet if Feyerabend is correct, and an unpopular new theory can ignore or reject experimental data long enough to get its footing, how much longer can an old and creaky theory, buttressed by the reputations and influence and political power of hundreds of established practitioners, continue to hang in the air even when the results upon which it is premised are exposed as false?

The hagiographies of science are full of paeans to the self-correcting, self-healing nature of the enterprise. But if raw results are so often false, the filtering mechanisms so ineffective, and the self-correcting mechanisms so compromised and slow, then science’s approach to truth may not even be monotonic. That is, past theories, now “refuted” by evidence and replaced with new approaches, may be closer to the truth than what we think now. Such regress has happened before: In the nineteenth century, the (correct) vitamin C deficiency theory of scurvy was replaced by the false belief that scurvy was caused by proximity to spoiled foods. Many ancient astronomers believed the heliocentric model of the solar system before it was supplanted by the geocentric theory of Ptolemy. The Whiggish view of scientific history is so dominant today that this possibility is spoken of only in hushed whispers, but ours is a world in which things once known can be lost and buried.

And even if self-correction does occur and theories move strictly along a lifecycle from less to more accurate, what if the unremitting flood of new, mostly false, results pours in faster? Too fast for the sclerotic, compromised truth-discerning mechanisms of science to operate? The result could be a growing body of true theories completely overwhelmed by an ever-larger thicket of baseless theories, such that the proportion of true scientific beliefs shrinks even while the absolute number of them continues to rise. Borges’s Library of Babel contained every true book that could ever be written, but it was useless because it also contained every false book, and both true and false were lost within an ocean of nonsense.

Which brings us to the odd moment in which we live. At the same time as an ever more bloated scientific bureaucracy churns out masses of research results, the majority of which are likely outright false, scientists themselves are lauded as heroes and science is upheld as the only legitimate basis for policy-making. There’s reason to believe that these phenomena are linked. When a formerly ascetic discipline suddenly attains a measure of influence, it is bound to be flooded by opportunists and charlatans, whether it’s the National Academy of Science or the monastery of Cluny.

This comparison is not as outrageous as it seems: Like monasticism, science is an enterprise with a superhuman aim whose achievement is forever beyond the capacities of the flawed humans who aspire toward it. The best scientists know that they must practice a sort of mortification of the ego and cultivate a dispassion that allows them to report their findings, even when those findings might mean the dashing of hopes, the drying up of financial resources, and the loss of professional prestige. It should be no surprise that even after outgrowing the monasteries, the practice of science has attracted souls driven to seek the truth regardless of personal cost and despite, for most of its history, a distinct lack of financial or status reward. Now, however, science and especially science bureaucracy is a career, and one amenable to social climbing. Careers attract careerists, in Feyerabend’s words: “devoid of ideas, full of fear, intent on producing some paltry result so that they can add to the flood of inane papers that now constitutes ‘scientific progress’ in many areas.”

If science was unprepared for the influx of careerists, it was even less prepared for the blossoming of the Cult of Science. The Cult is related to the phenomenon described as “scientism”; both have a tendency to treat the body of scientific knowledge as a holy book or an a-religious revelation that offers simple and decisive resolutions to deep questions. But it adds to this a pinch of glib frivolity and a dash of unembarrassed ignorance. Its rhetorical tics include a forced enthusiasm (a search on Twitter for the hashtag “#sciencedancing” speaks volumes) and a penchant for profanity. Here in Silicon Valley, one can scarcely go a day without seeing a t-shirt reading “Science: It works, b—es!” The hero of the recent popular movie The Martian boasts that he will “science the sh— out of” a situation. One of the largest groups on Facebook is titled “I f—ing love Science!” (a name which, combined with the group’s penchant for posting scarcely any actual scientific material but a lot of pictures of natural phenomena, has prompted more than one actual scientist of my acquaintance to mutter under her breath, “What you truly love is pictures”). Some of the Cult’s leaders like to play dress-up as scientists—Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson are two particularly prominent examples— but hardly any of them have contributed any research results of note. Rather, Cult leadership trends heavily in the direction of educators, popularizers, and journalists.

At its best, science is a human enterprise with a superhuman aim: the discovery of regularities in the order of nature, and the discerning of the consequences of those regularities. We’ve seen example after example of how the human element of this enterprise harms and damages its progress, through incompetence, fraud, selfishness, prejudice, or the simple combination of an honest oversight or slip with plain bad luck. These failings need not hobble the scientific enterprise broadly conceived, but only if scientists are hyper-aware of and endlessly vigilant about the errors of their colleagues . . . and of themselves. When cultural trends attempt to render science a sort of religion-less clericalism, scientists are apt to forget that they are made of the same crooked timber as the rest of humanity and will necessarily imperil the work that they do. The greatest friends of the Cult of Science are the worst enemies of science’s actual practice.

William A. Wilson is a software engineer in the San Francisco Bay Area.

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222 Comments
Stucky
Stucky
April 15, 2016 9:02 am

Bea

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 15, 2016 9:06 am

Question everything!

Fuck Bea!

You just trashed the argument of your idol.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 9:43 am

Evolution or ID has been cruel to us humans. If you’re not a psychopath, you were born without a bullshit detector. Psychopaths, while the rare exception in humans, are the rule in government. It took me 54 years to find the switch to my BS detector. And then another 8 to learn how to tune it. Building 7 and the 2008 recession were my triggers, although Vietnam was obvious in 1969.

Here’s the #1 rule for QA. If the information comes from government, it’s a lie and not just a lie, but 180 degrees from truth. You can test this on Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, Moon Landing, Cold War, 911, GWOT, AGW, ISS (actually all things NASA) and one of the best, and I really give the psychos credit … Nice Work!, Nukes (If I lost you on this, tough, but check out Anders Bjorkman ( http://heiwaco.tripod.com/bomb.htm ) I like this guy!

There is always the possibility that you were born without a QA gene. The fact that you are reading this says that is highly unlikely.

In closing, I’d like to thank Mr. Jim Quinn, Administrator. These comments are as close as most of us will ever get to writing our autobiography. Future generations will find us to have been funny disgusting idiots. I’m no exception. But at least I’m not a sheeple.

And one more thing, like HSF, I can’t rule out the flat earth or some alternative version. I suspect that we are an ant farm or possibly this is just Virtual Reality. Just recognize that all of history is written or approved by government. Again the #1 rule.

Stucky
Stucky
April 15, 2016 9:57 am

DurangoDan says we live on ant farm and isn’t convinced the earth is round. And he provides a link saying neither Nagasaki or Hiroshima were nuked … they were napalmed.

See? This is what happens when you question everything. You turn into a full retard.

Llpoh, you be right … we need better posters …. the fucken buffoonery is getting quite out of hand. How much longer can I endure and suffer? I dunno.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 10:00 am

Stucky, I was edumacated in the gubmit school system. What else should you expect?

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 15, 2016 10:07 am
DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 10:10 am

Admin, Now that I’ve said some nice things about you would you publish my follow-up anti-AGW paper (1st one linked again here:

The Hydro Flask Challenge to Anthropogenic Climate Change

and the 2nd one nails it. It’s my life’s #1 goal at least for today to be posted on TBP.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 15, 2016 10:20 am

I’d post the lyrics but anyone who cares can google it. It is what I have been thinking the last hour or so since I was accused of ad hominem attacks. We all read from different books. I just wonder under which authority we should turn to rank the validity. According to HSF his is more valid then mine.

Yeah.. I guess. If validity was a popularity contest. HSF would be the Prom Queen and I would be tasked with sweeping the floors after event.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 10:45 am

Admin, Great! How do I get it to you? You e-mail me first?

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 11:04 am

Excellent. The second paper has not been posted yet and not sure if it will be. Can I e-mail it to you for consideration for possible original posting? Thanks.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 11:07 am

Admin, Just looked at it. You made my day!

Francis
Francis
April 15, 2016 12:54 pm

The article was very interesting. Thank you.
I am reminded of the book “Zen and the Art of motorcycle maintenance” wherein the author stressed on “quality”. The regret is that this word is not mentioned anywhere in the article.
I work at a new Research Univ (5 yrs old) and i am convinced of the article content. Most research staff here is obsessed with keeping and renewing their contracts and all publications are positive-biased. Put a little crudely, “kissing a**” seems to be the nom de jour in the research fraternity.

Ed
Ed
April 15, 2016 1:22 pm

“Here’s the #1 rule for QA. If the information comes from government, it’s a lie and not just a lie, but 180 degrees from truth.”

Yeah, there it is, Dan. My version of it is:

If it’s

A. on TV or
B. from a government spokestwit
C. generally agreed upon by all the news sources and media outlets

Then it’s a lie. If it’s A and B, then it’s a reeking pile of shit-type lie, and if it’s A,B and C then its also such a poorly told lie that ridicule is the only sane response to it.

Dan, naturally, anyone who dares to question any of the lies that make up our TV induced matrix will be called “batshit crazy” by people who haven’t yet been shaken awake. Most of them mean no harm and are a little concerned for the well-being of a fellow human who questions a government lie, since they think a questioner is too crazy to cross the street alone.

Some of them resent having to deal with the uneasy feelings that are aroused by witnessing another person expressing doubts or, worse, outright calling bullshit on any of the flimsily constructed lies that have somehow escaped exposure for the decades of successful media matrix maintenance. Those folks will try using ridicule and shunning to bring the questioner into line. They’ll get a little shrill, but they aren’t really worrisome. They’re really just words on a screen. They can only hurt their own serenity, and yours if you take them seriously.

Some people, though are more concerned with making the questioner STFU, and will go so far as to do some harm to anyone who disturbs the sleep of the intended objects of the lies. I think that for those types, their rice bowl is in jeopardy. They’re the only ones you have to really guard against.

Ed
Ed
April 15, 2016 1:29 pm

T4C, good montage. So, maybe Daddy Gov was trying to reassure the eaters of Government Cheese that their food source was secure. Those of us who don’t want their second rate commods and would rather get our own cheese ain’t really gonna give much of a shit how much cheese the Gov has.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
April 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Ed, You’ve improved my rule. Very nice!

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 15, 2016 7:19 pm

HSF – I am indeed referring to you, among others, when I mention batshit crazy. You are out of our fucking mind if you think I am going to try to addrss your insane position re no moon landing, or give flat earth the time of day. Batshit crazy sums it up nicely.

You really lost any shred of respect I had for you, and I always held some reservations given your history, when you suggested it is appropriate for teachers to beat on third graders as they need toughening up. That is some low shit right there, ladies and gentlemen.

You suggest there s something wrong socially, with Rob in NS, but think it is ok for teachers to toughen up third graders by beating them.

Seriously, HSF, that is some hypocritical and fuck up shit.

I avoided saying much to you, as your Little House on the Praire stuff is enjoyed by many. But underneath that lies a very dark and unstable side, based on sme of the things you believe.

Your comment to Rob in NS was very poor indeed.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 15, 2016 8:55 pm
Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 15, 2016 9:00 pm

Llpoh- Why don’t you prove HF wrong without a shadow of a doubt?

We’ll be waiting with great anticipation to read your article. Heck, you can even have Rob and Stucky give you a hand. Just remember that “Everybody saw it happen on TV” or “The government said —————–(fill in blank)” does not count. Real proof.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 15, 2016 9:08 pm

Bea – what say you go fuck yourself? You too fall into the batshit crazy category.

Why would I waste time addressing idiocy of the highest order? You imbeciles thrive on finding bullshit that you believe supports your insanity, then bleat like sheep “prove me wrong, prove me wrong”. Why would I wrestle a pig in mud? I will leave that to you pigs.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 15, 2016 9:20 pm

Bea, the merits of HF’s argument aside, LLPOH was complaining about the shit that passes for science and the shit comments that pass for intelligence around here. Crap like taking credit for other people’s accomplishments because there white just like them.

Billy boy got a fan base for a while with his dark racial outlook. HF said something once that sounded a bit off, he said he wished he could write like Billy. I assumed he meant Billy was a good writer. I’m slow but it kind of crept on me that he means he wishes he could express himself like Billy.

I don’t see the problem. It’s like that old joke about the farmer and his gf looking at the bull and cow making a calf, the farmer says, wish I was doing that. Gf says, go ahead, it’s your cow.

I don’t feel right commenting on his posts, thanks in part to La Maggie. I thoroughly enjoyed BW’s ribbing HF, it brought him down to earth for me.

I like HF but I love LLPOH, so that’s who’s side I’m on. Whose side are you on, Bea?

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 15, 2016 9:35 pm

Dammit, EC, stick to one name will you? I am having trouble keeping up. Thanks for the kind words.

Maggie on Son's Computer
Maggie on Son's Computer
April 15, 2016 9:47 pm

Well, I’ve been on the road for a few days and am at my son’s apartment while he is doing what young men at college do on Friday evenings these days… having a beer with friends and wishing there were more women in engineering disciplines. He came in after his dinner (with friends! He didn’t want to go to dinner with Mom) and unlocked his computer so I could read a few articles and get my email and I’d just started this article when he asked me what I was reading. I told him briefly what I’d read and then I asked him his thoughts about the diamond detector example and as always he asked another question that had nothing to do with what I was hoping to discuss. Brat.

He asked “If the detector is 99% accurate, then how can you be sure each of the stones already passed over without signal do not have a diamond inside? Each stone presents separate opportunity for the detector to be 1% inaccurate.”

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
April 15, 2016 9:52 pm

Maggie

He’s right.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 15, 2016 9:52 pm

Old Sarge used the same logic when he said a kid was enthusiastically digging in the manure pile, he said that all the bs meant there was sure to be a cow in there.

There’s got to be something in this post.

starfcker
starfcker
April 15, 2016 9:58 pm

One of my gold buying buddies has a little machine. Like a ray-gun looking thing. You point it at anything metal and it will tell you the exact composition of any metal object in about ten seconds. I don’t know exactly how it works, but it works, and he is confident enough in the accuracy of that ray-gun to fork over large sums of cash money based on what it tells him. I don’t need to fully understand it to believe it works. Llpoh, throw down the ladder, this one isn’t for me.

Full Retard on EC's computer while the sun sets
Full Retard on EC's computer while the sun sets
April 15, 2016 10:06 pm

It’s the expectation of feast or famine once somebody is elected, the tension is driving folks to desperation and they will soon run out of the house naked, screaming that they want Trump.

Maggie on Son's Computer
Maggie on Son's Computer
April 15, 2016 10:33 pm

Now, after finishing the article and reading most of the comments here, I have decided to delicately avoid the piles of crap lying about and just say that I really like this line from the Wilson piece:

If peer review is good at anything, it appears to be keeping unpopular ideas from being published.

HSF, I find the links you provide that support your opinion on moon landings are interesting to look at and I either read them or save them to look at later. I asked my son what he thought about it and he said, in a very serious and deadpan manner, “A lot of very intelligent people are fooled by idiots every single day.”

He didn’t commit to one side or the other. Perhaps he was talking about ME. Brat. He took his keys and left the room.

Maggie on Son's Computer as Maggie while Full Retard is trespassing
Maggie on Son's Computer as Maggie while Full Retard is trespassing
April 15, 2016 10:45 pm

@Full Retard on EC’s computer while the sun sets…

La Maggie? Et tu? It is LLPOH you love?

Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option. – Mark Twain

Maggie on Son's Computer
Maggie on Son's Computer
April 15, 2016 11:44 pm

When I was a 14, I spent the summer in Virginia Beach, Va., with my aunt and her son and his family. My aunt was an artist who had left a teaching position at a state institution (for orphans and troubled children) in Kentucky to become her son’s babysitter for two children while his wife returned to work. He owned the home next door as his side business (ironically, a metal detecting shop which was a big success for him… still is in the business 40 years later!). My aunt lived in the back of that home, having invested her savings in the purchase of the home in order to support his business and have a separate residence from his family.

My aunt was/is a very creative sort of person, whose lovely painting “Fire on Kentucky Lake” I offered to sell to Admin here some time ago along with the rights to rename it The Burning Platform. While I got several nasty comments about the Turner Landscape she’d painted on canvas as her Thesis over 50 years ago, I got no offer from Admin.

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My aunt’s creativity at that time focused on oil toning parchment and then writing quotes, poetry and a variety of designs in Calligraphy. Her “writing” was beautiful and I possess a number of originals from her. When she wasn’t watching the kids for my cousin, we usually were at the beach metal detecting for coins and jewelry or at art shows in the region. She would dress in Colonial garb and display her pieces behind her and people could buy the framed pieces or one of the unframed quotes on parchment for a few dollars. She would write kids names and oil tone them for free. Most of a Saturday art show was spent writing names on little squares of parchment she brought along just for that purpose and I would sit with the kids and help them oil tone the paper. This is a very young Maggie standing beside my aunt writing with her feather quill (and she actually wrote with a feather quill for the art shows the summer of 1976).

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That summer was a turning point in all of our lives. I won’t go into much detail, but while I was there, everything changed. It wasn’t my fault, but I was witness to some things that I rarely dredge up in my memory. For some reason, this discussion of questioning authority and diamond detectors brings to mind a different sort of trip to the seashore with my aunt. We were not seeking treasure with a metal detector, but had been invited to tour the Edgar Cayce institute aka Association for Research and Enlightenment, Inc. http://www.edgarcayce.org/edgar-cayce1.html

My aunt had been approached at some art show long before I arrived on scene by someone from that organization who wanted her to “write” some of Cayce’s quotes on parchment and oil-tone them to be offered for sale in their gift shop. Once every two weeks, she would make a couple of dozen of them and drop them off at the door with an invoice. A check would arrive in a day or so. But one time, while I was there, the woman she had met actually came to her home and paid her in cash. I met her; she said nice things about my aunt and then she asked if we would like to tour the facility on the shore and see the world famous meditation room where the great psychics of the Cayce institute could focus their minds and answer the questions sent to them by people who asked those questions.

We went and saw the place. I don’t think it was world famous and I can’t imagine much meditation going on there, although standing on a clear glass floor section against a full glass wall overlooking waves crashing against the giant rocks on that section of shoreline was exhilarating. Two or three people may have been in the room while we were in there, but I can’t remember. I was trying to get a sense of what made it world famous. I was pretty much a real hick from the sticks then and pretty gullible. I’ve seen a couple of things since then and now know what it was about that visit that so disturbed my aunt.

She never “wrote” for them again and even thought they called several times, she said she was just too busy with her grandkids and had decided not to do so much calligraphy.

She is still alive at 92, but arthritis has taken away her ability to “write” though she will scrawl a note to send along with her drawings once in a while. When my son was young, I asked her to make me a few of my favorite pieces if she didn’t mind. She didn’t. This one I asked for so that I could put a photo of my son as a boy and then as a man someday. I have that one hanging in the log home, but before I made it, I scanned the calligraphy she’d sent with the blank space so I could use it digitally. This one is a photo of her I found in my father’s things and a photo of her from that summer in 1976, when we both learned what it was like to be lied to by people you really want to trust.

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Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 12:11 am

You never met LLPOH, your loss.
He didn’t slice and dice Clammy just for the fun of it.
Did you even look at the video I posted? Those writers were channeling LLPOH.
He’s a bit rough on folks but when he loses faith in somebody, it’s usually for a damn good reason.

The article La is an honorific as applied to famous women – La Callas, La Liz..
My favorite is well known as La Pantoja, look it up that way and see.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
April 16, 2016 12:30 am

Stuck asks if anyone is still reading these posts. Well – it’s still 2nd from the top and the comments continue to roll in so I guess the answer is yes when along comes Maggie who has this to say:

“Now, after finishing the article and reading most of the comments here, I have decided to delicately avoid the piles of crap lying about… ”

“I asked my son what he thought about it and he said, in a very serious and deadpan manner, “A lot of very intelligent people are fooled by idiots every single day.” He didn’t commit to one side or the other.”

Proving that this evening the smartest guy in the room is actually a girl. I suppose that is the advantage of being a woman – men being more prone to masturbate obsessively – primarily over things that they can’t have or know for sure. The point of the exercise being less about who is right and more about who is able to simply to let it go.

But I suppose that is poor theatre. So let the insults roll and the comments climb – let us roast our comrades and stoke the fires of our ego.

Ode to TBP

On Rob, on Stucky

on LLPOH and Araven

on Unbound and Full Retard

and who’ve I forgotten?

We’ll rip and we’ll tare

and we’ll gut one another

till hell freezeth over

don’t call me your brother!!

You conspiracy nut,

no you don’t understand

You know not what you speak of

so talk to the hand

Blow me now

you dumb bastard

It’s a term of endearment

You stupid cocksucker

You just didn’t here me!

If you don’t see it my way

I’ll continue to fight

What you say

Now the games on?

Sorry ‘ g’night!

The end.

Next thread please.

So we’ll

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 16, 2016 12:50 am

FM- Your son says, “A lot of very intelligent people are fooled by idiots every single day”.

You know, I’ve said that exact thing about Loopey myself. Smart son you got there.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 16, 2016 1:00 am

Oh FM, I forgot to compliment your poem, very good.

Maggie always takes the low road, she is a smart cookie, conformist but smart.

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 1:07 am

Bea, he was quoting Maggie’s boy. Old Pangloss said a consultant is one who borrows your watch to tell you what time it is. Maggie consulted an outsider and got an outsider’s point of view.

LLPOH gave us an insider’s opinion. It was fairly considerate. He weighed HF’s comments against what he knows of HF. He gave him credit for his naturalist writing and perhaps decided HF is out of his element discussing science.

Thank I-S for his own discretion, though he loves science, he does not often share any disparate theories on creation or the big bang or who went to the moon.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
April 16, 2016 4:17 am

Francis Marion said:
” men being more prone to masturbate obsessively – primarily over things that they can’t have or know for sure.”

Personally I masturbate over the down votes I get. I hear that masturbation reduces the risk of prostate cancer and the down votes, which I save in my spank bank………..well, I imagine each and every one to be like a sensual blowjob given by my most ardent fans and followers. If I just had time to comment more often, I might go blind!

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
April 16, 2016 7:35 am

Thank you for the story about your aunt, Maggie, it was a nice coda to an otherwise volatile symphony of ideation.

Maggie on Son's Computer
Maggie on Son's Computer
April 16, 2016 7:59 am

Well, am leaving my son’s apartment, headed to a Mennonite Farmer’s Market, where my Yoder ladies are selling all their baked and canned goods and I’m going to talk to a lady about custom window treatments for the log home.

You boys have fun throwing shit.

I don’t ALWAYS avoid the shitfests… I just have limited time here.

Maggie on Son's Computer
Maggie on Son's Computer
April 16, 2016 8:00 am

EC or Full Retard? I’m not sure my son was referring to HF.

200! I win.

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 16, 2016 8:20 am

El Retard- Thanks for the clue. I don’t catch everything at 1:00 in the am, heck I don’t catch everything at 1:00 in the pm.

One thing I do know, it takes courage to wonder why things don’t add up in this cartoon world and it takes even more courage to write a article that is contrary to popular belief. HF has more courage than most here.

I don’t know about the flat Earth thing but I am willing to spend some time pondering it and I really doubt the moon landing (good theater, too many anomalies). Llpoh attacks anyone who does not toe the line of official programming. For me it is easy to see a building fall in 2.4 seconds in it’s own footprint and declare it was a demolition which takes weeks to wire while others cling to what they are told and not what they see.

I think this just boils down to courage.

llpoh
llpoh
April 16, 2016 9:19 am

Bea – I attack stupid. Stupid conspiracy theories are fair game.

400,000 Eppleby were involved in the moon landing, which was monitored world wide. No way it was faked. No cover up that big is possible.

Ed
Ed
April 16, 2016 9:25 am

“400,000 Eppleby were involved in the moon landing”

What is Eppleby?

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 16, 2016 9:36 am

Llpoh- I didn’t say they were not launching rockets with astronauts into low orbit, that takes a lot of eppleby(?) for sure, but that does not mean they went to the moon.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
April 16, 2016 9:48 am

“400,000 Eppleby were involved in the moon landing, which was monitored world wide. No way it was faked. No cover up that big is possible.” – Llpoh

That is what is known as the Eppleby Consensus.

I had forgotten to take that into account. I am now convinced.

Ed
Ed
April 16, 2016 10:15 am

It looks like an autocorrect mistake, but I’ll wait till Llpoh answers. Autocorrect caused my wife to send me a weird text from her phone once. The text said “I’d like a stiffly with onions and chili if you’re grilling.”

I was thinking WTF is a stiffly? I called her and asked, and she said she had entered “I’d like a bratwurst”, etc. How the autocorrect function managed to suggest “stiffly” for “bratwurst” was puzzling enough, but to top it all, I had misread it and thought she wrote “stiffy”. Guess I have a dirty mind, or maybe it was wishful thinking on my part. ahaha

Bea Lever
Bea Lever
April 16, 2016 10:15 am

It takes a lot of eppleby to get a comment count into the hundreds yet Llpoh says comments are way down (?)

Denial much Loopey? And FYI, alternative articles get some of the highest thread comment counts so blow me.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 16, 2016 10:15 am

HSF – don’t you have a cross to burn somewhere? Maybe a hood to sew?

Talk about someone I would not want near my family.

But you sure do write purdy. Too bad what lurks below the surface.

Llpoh
Llpoh
April 16, 2016 10:24 am

Autocorrect. Was meant to say employees.

Comment count is way down, best I can tell. But what do I know, I have only been posting for years now. This article has been up for 4 days, and is the only one getting any comments.

Araven
Araven
April 16, 2016 1:33 pm

In my previous comment about layers the data about the lower layers was all taken from accepted theories in Physics (though not necessarily the most publicized ones), so all of you who think I was talking bullshit I hope you realize that you are calling the religion of science that you think so highly of bullshit. Hah! Yet I’m the one saying question everything, so why should I believe any of these theories? Hah on me too!

To continue from the previous comment, one more thing we have a lot of trouble getting our minds around is time. To us time is something immutable and completely different from the other three dimensions that we recognize in our daily lives, but current theory is that time is just another dimension. Some theories postulate up to 11 dimensions, so time is just one of many that I, at least, can’t comprehend because I view myself as a 3 dimensional being (4 if you include time).

But I can make abstractions about concepts of external dimensions based on what a hypothetical two dimensional reality (3 dimensions if you include time) might look like. Beings in the two dimensional reality might be lines or dots or circles or squares or squiggles in a reality flat like a piece of paper. If there was another two dimensional reality that did not intersect with the first there would be no evidence that the other reality existed. If another two dimensional reality intersected with the first on an angle there would be evidence of the intersection but a line would look like a dot. A circle would look like two dots, but the dots would act as one even though there was no obvious connection between the two. If a three dimensional reality intersected with the two dimensional reality a plane would look like a line, a sphere would look like a circle, and a cube would look like a square. So you would have all of the familiar items in your reality but they would really be just a part of something else that you don’t even have the concept to understand and they may or may not act in a manner that fits with your reality. A line might suddenly change length or disappear if the plane it is a part of rotated out of sync. A circle might shrink to a dot and disappear if another object that did not impinge on the two dimensional reality bumped the sphere. I try to expand this to what it might mean about our existence and I usually just get a really bad headache.

Another aspect of time is that we see it as linear. But if it is just another dimension then maybe we should be able to move backward and forward in time. Time could easily be cyclical. TPTB try to keep us looking at things, especially time, in a linear fashion, but if you look at everything around you anything that appears to be linear just has a cycle that is outside of your timeframe. We have yearly cycles and monthly cycles and birth/death cycles and 11 year solar cycles. We talk about the theory of the Big Bang as a one time event, but maybe it too is part of a cycle of expansion followed by contraction. What if, during the contraction phase, time runs backwards?

Full Retard
Full Retard
April 16, 2016 1:48 pm

Llpoh says: HSF – don’t you have a cross to burn somewhere? Maybe a hood to sew?

I’ve assigned Billy, HSF, Bea and Sensetti in that happy camp but I don’t hate them. I’ve engaged in cross-burning on TBP from time to time if only to roast a few stupid ideations.