Theocracy Advances in Utah… And Soon Near You, Too

Guest Post by Eric Peters

FILE – In this Feb. 23, 2017, file photo, Rep. Norm Thurston, R-Provo, looks on as he stands on he floor of the Utah House of Representatives at the Utah State Capitol, in Salt Lake City. Utah’s hospitality industry is urging Gov. Gary Herbert to veto a bill giving Utah the strictest DUI threshold in the country, lowering the blood alcohol limit to .05 percent, down from .08 percent. Thurston, says he doesn’t think it will hurt tourism but it would make people think twice about drinking and driving. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer, File)

The slippery slope argument gets mocked a lot – but here’s another case that proves the point:

Utah has just done what thinking brains knew was inevitably coming. The state government has nearly halved the legal threshold defining what risibly continues to be called “drunk” driving (see here) from the iffy .08 BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) to the downright ridiculous .05 BAC.

This is a level that many people reach after as few as two – or fewer – drinks. One is enough, in some cases, to risk a “bust.”

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Thus, Utah’s fatwa – and that is the right word, as this business comes out of religion – Mormonism – which would outlaw all drinking, period, if it had the power to do so – is a hop-skip away from outlawing any drinking prior to driving. Because with a threshold that low and Breathalyzer machines so notoriously inaccurate, the margin for error is much too close for comfort. To have even a single beer or glass of wine with dinner is to risk being arrested and caged for “drunk” driving.

Some, of course, will agree that any alcohol consumption prior to driving is “dangerous” and that prohibition, period, is a good thing.

But that is a far hop from “drunk” driving – a hysterical, over-the-top characterization. It is also a mere opinion – a moralizing and meretricious one – not supported by any facts.   

The legislation’s author, a Mormon Republican and graduate of the Mormon college, Brigham Young University, is a guy named Norm Thurston. He piously assures us that “the public safety impact of this is so compelling that it’s worth doing.”

Lies. Pious lies. But nonetheless.

There is no evidence at all that people are “drunk” or even meaningfully impaired at the .05 BAC level. It is an outrageous, religious effort to mask religious proscription as a public safety issue.

But it is also nothing new, really.

It is critical to understand that it isn’t necessary – in Utah or anywhere else in the Homeland – to establish that a person’s driving is impaired by alcohol to convict him of “drunk” driving. Even under the soon-to-be-old .08 BAC standard. It is enough to establish that the accused has a BAC of .08 – or .05 or whatever arbitrary number is selected. For those under the age of 21 – not legal age to drink but old enough to be held fully legally accountable for any crime they commit – it is zero BAC. Any trace of alcohol – and you are guilty of “drunk” driving.

One’s actual driving, in all cases, being 100 percent legally irrelevant.

The arresting cop might admit under cross-examination, that the accused’s handling of his car was faultless. No wandering or weaving; no erratic anything. That he had no reason to suspect him of not being in full possession of his faculties or question whether he was in complete control of his vehicle.

It doesn’t matter.

The victim – whoops, “drunk” driver – simply had the bad luck to roll up on a Fourth Amendment Free Zone. That is, a random/dragnet checkpoint at which every driver must submit to a search/interrogation and testing, absent any individualized suspicion or other probable cause.

The cop can then demand – under a loathsome piece of totalitarian doublespeak called implied consent – that the driver submit to a breath test upon command. To self-incriminate. He must prove his innocence, rather than the cop (and later, the prosecutor) having to prove guilt.

And he must comply – or else (in most states) face immediate arrest and forfeiture of his driver’s license as the punishment for declining to consent to provide evidence that can and will be used against him in court.

Before .08, it was generally necessary to have some evidence of impairment before – key thing! – a cop had the legal authority – probable cause – to pull a specific individual over. The fact of erratic driving having been established, the next step was to establish why.

Note the horse before cart arrangement.

Since .08 became the national standard – and the Fourth and Fifth Amendments got thrown in the Woods – the cart has been placed foursquare in front of the horse.

Now comes Utah to take away the horse and maybe soon the cart, too.

Point-oh-eight as a universal standard was hugely questionable on scientific grounds. People vary in both their abilities behind the wheel and their ability to process alcohol. It is a fact that some people with a zero-point-zero BAC are far less able as drivers than other people with point-zero-five or even point-zero-eight.

It is hugely politically incorrect to even broach this topic. But the fact remains.

Which is why .08 had to be implemented using random checkpoints without any pretense of individualized suspicion. To stop using a person’s actual driving as the measure of their impairment.

The object of the exercise has become convicting as many people as possible of “drunk” driving – notwithstanding that they aren’t “drunk” (except perhaps by hard-core Baptist and Mormon standards, for whom a whiff of cough syrup is sufficient) and their driving can’t be faulted.

So, erect random checkpoints and “bust” people not on account of their driving but only because they happen to have “x” BAC – the number deliberately dumbed-down and under-posted, very much as speed limits are and for exactly the same reasons.

Which are, of course, to give the government the flimsiest of reasons to “bust” as many victims as possible in order to both extract as much money as possible and to instill in them a servile fear of The Law. Turn everyone into a “drunk” driver. Just as almost everyone who is driving is also a “speeder.” 

The Utah decree doubles down on this and be advised – it’s not just Utah.

Or soon won’t be.

Some history: It was Utah that first enacted the .08 BAC standard. They did it because of the Mormon aversion to drink – period. But other states – and the Feds – soon realized what a cash (and control) cow the .08 standard could be potentially be for them and – shazam! – the whole country adopted .08 as the universal standard.

Can it be doubted that the same forces of ka-ching! (and clink) are as operative as ever? That “mothers” (read: very well-paid full-time agitators who work hand in hand with the government and insurance mafia) will demand the new .05 standard?

For “safety” and “the children”?

Actually, for the money and the power. It has always been thus, but it’s getting worse. A farce, except one with teeth.

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30 Comments
N8
N8
June 6, 2017 3:31 pm

FUCK THE MORMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
June 6, 2017 3:35 pm

This used to be a major pita. It is one a the major reasons I always loved going to giant field parties rather than parties in town or *gasp* bars. But now with uber and lyft it seems so easy to avoid drinking and driving.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
June 6, 2017 4:12 pm

The positive side is that it doesn’t matter that much because tap beer in Utah cannot exceed 4% alcohol. Do the maff and you may find that it takes the same amount of mormon beer to exceed the legal limit as it does in other states.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 6, 2017 5:07 pm

.05%, or less, is a fairly common standard throughout the world.

World Drink Drive Limits

But I fail to see how establishing a .05% limit is creating or advancing a Theocracy.

jackson
jackson
  Anonymous
June 6, 2017 9:43 pm

Anonymous said:

“But I fail to see how establishing a .05% limit is creating or advancing a Theocracy.”

LMAO!

Note the cart before horse arrangement.

I think it’s best you remain… “Anonymous.”

Anonymous
Anonymous
  jackson
June 7, 2017 9:23 am

Could you explain how drunk driving laws advance or create a Theocracy?

I’m just not seeing it, virtually every country in the world has drunk driving laws, and as I pointed out most more severe than ours.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
  Anonymous
June 7, 2017 9:58 am

I agree. A .05 limit is stupid and is undoubtedly influenced by the Mormon culture, but if every law whose passage had been merely influenced by religion were evidence of “theocracy”, we’d have to say the whole country has long been a theocracy with laws against adultery, bigamy, (until recently) same-sex marriage, blue laws against alcohol sales on Sunday, etc. Most people (other than the strictest libertarians) wouldn’t say we’ve been living in a theocracy, so it’s best not to abuse language and expand the definition. Better to just say the fucken mormons are out of control with their stupid laws.

jackson
jackson
  Anonymous
June 7, 2017 11:44 am

@Anonymous:

“Mormonism – which would outlaw all drinking, period, if it had the power to do so – is a hop-skip away from outlawing any drinking prior to driving.”

So you don’t see the advancement of “Theocracy” in the State of Utah if this House bill passes???

Are you blind, or just obtuse?

Swiffergirl
Swiffergirl
June 6, 2017 5:13 pm

Having lived in Utah for over 10 years, I needed a glass of wine sometimes six to get past the shame of being a “Gentile” trying to survive behind the Zion Curtain.
My daughter who still resides in Utah says it is not alcohol but rather prescription meds and meth abuse that is a bigger concern especially among the “pious”.
I am currently dealing with a mother who suffers from Demetria in Hawaii and I have been trying for two years to get her Doctors and the State to revoke her drivers license because she refuses to do it voluntarily. My Mom is operating at a 70% capacity level which is equivalent to how many drinks?
Personally, I would sue the establishment who served me that half of glass of wine…

General
General
June 6, 2017 5:22 pm

Actually, in my little neighborhood of seven homes, six are Mormons and I get along fine with them. I just ignore their religious beliefs.
They are fairly conservative people overall with regard to family and community.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
  General
June 6, 2017 6:35 pm

Just don’t take only one Mormon fishing. He’ll drink all your beer.

jackson
jackson
  General
June 6, 2017 9:50 pm

@General:

Don’t forget the Mormon Magic Underwear.
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Ed
Ed
June 6, 2017 8:18 pm

Is it just me or does that Norm Thurston guy look like a total asshole?

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
  Ed
June 6, 2017 9:53 pm

Mormon heritage is patriarchal and polygamistic so I guess he comes by it honestly. If you are willing to forego individual sovereignty I can see how Mormonism is very attractive. The Mormons clearly like sex. If they tried sex while in a THC altered state of conscientious, I’m guessing weed would be legalised in Utah and Idaho post haste. As it is, there seems to be a lot of Utah plates visiting Colorado.

Celtic Tiger
Celtic Tiger
June 6, 2017 9:30 pm

Yes. He looks like one of those outwardly pious people who has several skeletons in his closet.

jackson
jackson
  Celtic Tiger
June 6, 2017 9:47 pm

Celtic Tiger said:

“He looks like one of those outwardly pious people who has several skeletons in his closet.”

You mean like every other politician!

TampaRed
TampaRed
June 6, 2017 11:00 pm

My sister got “Mormonized” and went all in & moved to Utah.
She sent me a tee shirt -“Eat,Drink and Be Merry For Tomorrow You’ll Be In Utah.”

AC
AC
June 6, 2017 11:52 pm

Utah Enabling Act:

First. That perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured, and that no inhabitant of said State shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship; Provided, That polygamous or plural marriages are forever prohibited.

This is harassment aimed at non-Mormons. Lawsuits to follow.

Boat Guy
Boat Guy
June 7, 2017 12:55 am

Just another state in our country I won’t be spending money in !

Clive
Clive
June 7, 2017 12:56 am

.08 was stupid and .05 is stupid. It should be if you are impaired. Women can’t drink like men, and small men can’t drink like big men. Some folks are good drivers … period. Some are marginal drivers .. period. I’m ok with a state doing whatever they think is prudent. Don’t like it, move. What I HATE with a passion is the Federal Government coercing states via money, to impose their .08 agenda.

It’s all about control. If you let the harpies set the numbers, they’ll all be at zero for the unconnected folks, and whatever you can get away with for the elites. Old as human history. It’s all about control and putting people in their boxes. I say, push the legal limit up to 2.0 for men and 1.0 for women and small men, say under 150 lbs. Get rid of sin taxes. Cigarettes should be a dollar a pack OR LESS. Leave people alone and no over-arching Federal mandates for conduct. Treat us like adults. Oh and Utah,… just go ahead an make alcohol illegal… and pot legal. Why not.

MMinLamesa
MMinLamesa
June 7, 2017 4:40 am

The article uses the fact that drinking a small amount of alcohol will probably not impair you to go full bore on other points.

Let’s stick to that one. Yeah a lot of people can handle their alcohol better then others. Yeah a 220 lb man drinking one beer will only be marginally affected if at all.

Come at it from the other side-can even 1 beer not affect you at all? At all? You’re driving a 2000 lb+ hammer so why in the hell would you not want to be in absolute total command of your faculties? And not just to operate your vehicle but to be on full swivel.

Almost at the top of MM’s does & don’ts is I never drink anything when I’m driving. Period. No beers at a ball game. No red wine with my steak if I’m out. No one for the road after an opening.

DWI numbers and roadside checks are another issue. I’m talking responsibility not to operate a machine that can kill or maim others with anything less then 100% of what you got. Do you think it’s OK for a crane operator to have a beer at lunch? How about a run a metal shear? Or drive a school bus?

yeah

jackson
jackson
  MMinLamesa
June 7, 2017 8:30 am

@MMinLamesa

What are you going to do when Big Brother decides to come after you for your pharmaceutical use, or your ingestion of anything with a certain warning on the insert or label?

Things like:

Strong and certain mild painkillers.
Medicines for epilepsy.
Medicines for anxiety.
Tranquilizers.
Cough remedies.
Motion sickness medications.
Anti-nausea medicines.
Allergy and hay fever medicines.
Migraine tablets.
Certain weight-loss products.
Medicines for ADHD.
Any medicine that contains more than 10% alcohol.
Sleeping tablets (do not drive until your body has excreted the drug).
Eye drops which contain substances that dilate the pupils.

What are you going to do when “they” come after you for this?? And don’t think they won’t, it’s already in the works!

http://www.naturalnews.com/029736_sheriffs_drug_database.html

Anon
Anon
  MMinLamesa
June 7, 2017 10:09 am

I don’t think the point anyone is arguing here has to do with someone genuinely being impaired while driving. The point, as I see it, and wholly agree with, is that due to the BAC standard a cop simply can pull you over, and / or set up checkpoints (4th amendment free zones) and use this arbitrary number to determine your capability of operating a vehicle, vs. him actually observing you on the road weaving, swerving or displaying some other form of impairment.
This is a clear violation of the 4th amendment, and also a form of pre-crime prevention. Imagine your walking down the street in a very affluent neighborhood. You look normally dressed and reasonably non suspicious, however due to the fact you are in a neighborhood with multi million dollar homes and people, you appear as just a $60,000 / year person. The “helpful” LEO that patrols that neighborhood decides you don’t belong, and arrests you for being “below the income level” of the neighborhood. That arbitrary number being you appear that you make under $1,000,000 / year. You do, but does that mean you are walking through the neighborhood casing the homes? Does it mean you are up to no good, or simply walking to a friends house that happens to be wealthy? Would you not agree that to arrest someone walking through a neighborhood, the person should at least look suspicious in some way, display some form of behavior to an officer that gives him probable cause to believe he is up to no good? Then if he finds a screwdriver, lock pick and other things that can be used in a burglary, proceed from there?
It is well known that Mormons feel alcohol is sin. Fine, that is there beliefs, they can not consume alcohol. I personally don’t consume a lot of alcohol, and have never had a DUI. However I do have a problem when other people, for religious reasons, or otherwise, start to use guns (law enforcement drones) to force their beliefs upon others. The theocracy is this public officials guidance he is using, and he is hiding behind the same thing all politicians use to take away others right’s they don’t agree with – safety and children. It is infuriating that no one stands up to these people, but our sheeple society is so scared of its own shadow, I guess we are doomed to more of this “safety” being shoved down our throats – you know, for our own good.

jackson
jackson
  Anon
June 7, 2017 11:48 am

@Anon:

Criminalize everything. It’s just good business.

David
David
June 7, 2017 9:22 am

I would much rather share the road with a bunch of guys at .08 than with people holding a phone or texting.

daddysteve
daddysteve
June 7, 2017 11:57 am

People blowing .08 aren’t the ones driving the wrong way down the interstate.

Just Me
Just Me
June 7, 2017 1:33 pm

These and other drunk driving laws will become moot in the not-too-distant future. Self-driving cars will remedy this. Just collapse into your auto and it dumps you at home no matter how drunk you are. Of course, the revenue loss to the government will not be tolerated and those dusty, ignored public intoxication laws will suddenly be very interesting. Expect sidewalk check points.

SSS
SSS
June 7, 2017 7:08 pm

Utah? Theocracy? Total bullshit. Let me tell the author and unwashed commenters above where drunk driving laws and blood alcohol content (BAC) tests really came from, and it ain’t Utah and the Mormons.

Ever heard of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD)? I just know you have. It was founded in 1980 by California resident Candace Lightner after her daughter was killed by a drunk driver. MADD is THE most powerful organization in the entire country on drunk driving and BAC tests. Not Utah, not the Mormons, MADD. And that continues to this day. Google MADD. Would you like me to help your lazy ass with the power of this organization? Its roots go all the way up to, wait for it, Ronald Reagan.

Oh, as for Utah proposing a law to lower the BAC test to .05. Proposing. Guess where else such a proposal exists. The entire fucking country of Canada!!!! As everyone knows, Canada has been under the control of Mormons since the 6th Century BC and is turning into a worse theocracy than Iran. Heh.

Anon
Anon
  SSS
June 8, 2017 11:28 am

Oh, I think many of us of a certain age know where the DUI and BAC came from, I know all about the MADD mothers, I even remember all of the “testimony” back in the 80’s and the news stories etc. It is always the same schtick, and a law gets passed. My point is that this Utah politician is using a different basis for his use of the tool given to him. Like all tools, laws can be used for good or evil. There are two things that laws get used for now, by and large:
1. Revenue collection.
2. Eliminating competition in the marketplace.
And to a lessor degree, actual control. I say this, as the above two are usually the main purpose, the control is just the MEANS of delivery.
Regardless of WHERE or through what intentions the laws come about, they are always – ALWAYS – eventually used for the above.
This Utah “leader” just feels he needs to eliminate competition in the marketplace for other belief systems, and is using his power of lawmaking to force his way on to everyone. Same as it ever was.

james the deplorable wanderer
james the deplorable wanderer
June 8, 2017 1:45 am

Utah lawmakers enjoy the same general level of approval and approbation as Congress (if you can find anything that small without a microscope).
Didn’t that Governor Herbert essentially say he was OK with developers doing whatever they find profitable? Look at http://eagleshare.org/pdfs/EAGLE-MTN-DEV-CORRUPTION.pdf
But let’s not just pick on Herbert: did you know Utah’s two previous Attorney Generals, John Swallow and Mark Shurtleff, were each indicted for multiple felonies tied to developer -related corruption? Just the other month, though, the main witness “suddenly” decided not to testify against Swallow, not sure where Shurtleff is these days. But there’s a fairly familiar pattern of corruption and chicanery in Utah, just like the rest of the country.
When I was a kid, they had to swear in Lamar Alexander as governor of Tennessee three days early, because Ray Blanton was threatening to pardon every killer on death row before he left office. Now that’s corruption with flair and style! My grandfather used to talk about Edwin Edwards of Louisiana, “crooked as a dog’s hind leg” was the phrase he used to describe a man who’s CAMPAIGN SLOGAN was “often indicted, never convicted”!
I guess my point is that Utah’s about the same as the rest of the country – the local pols are mostly Repubs instead of Democrats but they’re all corrupt, pretty much, across the country. Theology don’t really have much to do with it – unless you want to say that they pretty much all worship MONEY. There, now you have the truth of it!