So About ‘Dem Norks….

Courtesy of Denninger  via MuckAbout

The problem with drawing red lines is that when someone steps over one you are compelled to act on pain of being labeled a “pussy.”

That’s not a good thing when the topic is international relations; it inevitably leads to not only more provocation but much worse, it leads others to believe you won’t act when you say you will, and thus you become an unreliable party.

It is never in the best interest of a nation to be unreliable.  Unpredictable can be an asset in certain circumstances, but never unreliable.

So now, with the Norks setting off what was probably a multi-stage (fusion/fission) weapon, that is “hydrogen bomb”, we have a big problem.

The claim has been made through the years that North Korea will not be “permitted” to become a nuclear weapon state.

It just did — so what are we going to do about it?

Let me remind you that all the choices are bad.  We could choose to attack North Korea, but the consequence of doing so is very likely to be at least a counter-strike by the Norks on Seoul and everything else in South Korea within range of their weapons, which may, at this point, include a handful of nuclear devices.  Yes, we will win any such confrontation but at what cost and, at least equally to the point, we might provoke other nations to get directly and militarily involved (in particular China.)  Anyone who thinks this will be neat, clean and won’t involve lots of dead non-combatants (including women and children) being splayed all over every television and alt.media outlet in the world is flat-out nuts.

We can try strangling North Korea trade-wise, but I remind you that we already have tried that repeatedly via UN resolutions and not only have the Chinese helped them cheat it didn’t deter anything — if anything it strengthened the resolve of the Norks to press forward with their weapons programs even to the point of starving their own population.  There is a point at which one must conclude that insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.  The simple fact is that in order to make sanctions “stick” we have to be willing to blackball major Chinese banks from the US banking and settlement systems, which thus far we have been unwilling to do.  In addition China does not want the North Korean government to collapse (which is the only way a sanctions system will stop their development of arms) because they greatly fear both a united Korean peninsula under a republican form of government and the refugee crisis that such a collapse would generate.  Finally there is a non-zero risk that China might intervene militarily if we attempt to provoke a collapse of the North Korean government — they have come out and directly said so, and as such we must at least consider that they’re not bluffing in that regard.

We can try negotiating but what carrot can we offer that will actually result in a non-nuclear Korean peninsula?  I argue the answer is “none”; they have already said they will not give them up enough times that to go back on that would be to lose major face and perhaps provoke the very collapse of the government that China fears.  As such I don’t believe we can, at this point, negotiate disarmament via any sort of discussion no matter what we put on the table, and I remind you that once again China has to be on board with whatever is proposed.  Any path that potentially leads to a unified Korean peninsula that is not communist is unacceptable to China irrespective of any other set of terms.

We can decide that we’ll accept a nuclear-armed North Korea, but in doing so we are then accepting every other dictatorial state that wishes to acquire same, including, I might remind you, Iran.  The premise of “MAD” only works when all the people with the key to unlock the button are not insane.  If just one such person is insane then “MAD” makes it extremely likely we will all experience a need for SPF 5,000 sunscreen.

This is a **** sandwich folks, brewed up through decades of outrageously stupid decisions by administrations in the United States (and elsewhere) on all sides.  You cannot lay this solely or even largely at either party’s feet — it lies equally at both.

But we are here today, with the situation we’ve generated, and our only remaining question is what are we going to do about it now?

I only hope we don’t have to take a really big bite.

 

Author: MuckAbout

Retired Engineer and Scientist (electronic, optics, mechanical) lives in a pleasant retirement community in Central Florida. He is interested in almost everything and comments on most of it. A pragmatic libertarian at heart he welcomes comments on all that he writes.

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13 Comments
prusmc
prusmc
September 3, 2017 6:31 pm

Pay them off! It has been working since the Clinton years.

uturn
uturn
September 3, 2017 11:51 pm

Don’t worry it’s all theater- there are no nukes. You are being played. Denninger is just another fear monger. He’s right about health care but full of crap on everything else.

GilbertS
GilbertS
September 4, 2017 1:16 am

I believe we can live with a nuclear DPRK, assuming they can actually build a functional ICBM and warhead. Perhaps we could install anti-missile defenses all around them to defang them and just be prepared to knock down any rocket, missile, and slingshot they launch out of their airspace? I imagine it would be easy to have lasers just sitting in the ROK, Japan, and at sea to shoot down their rockets.

First, why do you think Un wants nukes?

I don’t believe Un wants nukes to launch a first strike on us. That would obviously be suicide. Every dictator wants to remain in a position to dictate and if he’s hiding in a bunker under a mountain for 10,000 years, it’s going to be hard for Un to remain in charge of anything.

I think Un wants nukes in order to keep the rest of the world out of North Korea. I believe Un is scared of allowing his people unrestricted access to the outside world, because an informed populace is a dangerous populace, and he believes nukes would allow him to set the terms for interaction with the outside world. This way, he can permit some interaction with the outside, such as limited trade, without being dictated terms by the USA, the UN, SEATO, etc.

Nukes might also liberate Un from being a stoooge of the Chinese, who have a vested interest in trying to control North Korea and keep.

I believe Un and the DPRK’s days are numbered and one of these days there will be a military coup or perhaps growing public discontent will flare into revolt. I saw a documentary from Frontline that showed how widespread smuggling is. Laptops, thumbdrives, and DVDs flow in and secret videos filmed by dissidents flow back out, allowing the outside to see what life is really like in the DPRK. For those not able to see the videos and news leaking in from outside, the rest of the world appears to be even worse than North Korea. The DPRK is so threatened by this illicit flow of information from the outside, they do house-to-house searches for contraband and possession of Western media and laptops is a death penalty offense!

Please check out these two illuminating documentaries on the NORKS.
The Secret State of North Korea (Frontline)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOzY3U9xIoM

Kim Jong Un: The Unauthorized Biography

Finally, this is what the NORKS are told about us:
anti-US DPRK Propaganda film

just a hombre
just a hombre
September 4, 2017 6:49 am

After Iraq, Syria and Libya gave up their nuke program to placate America and were soon destroyed by America, it became very obvious to North korea to ensure its survival that it needs to become a nuclear weapons state at any cost.
When Lindsey Graham repeats what Trump says that it is better for South Koreans to die than Americans, NK will not stop until it has the offensive nuclear weapons power to propel ICBM nukes into American cities. Only then it will believe it will have deterrence safety.

Hondo
Hondo
September 4, 2017 7:15 am

We are headed to thermonuclear war, that is a 100% guarantee. So you gots two choices, nuke the norks now, repeat as necessary, or just ignore the bastards, purchase a copy of Hillary’s nonbook, curl up in the fetal position with a bottle of warm red wine, and get ready to lose the powergrid. If I bought the nonbook, I would much prefer to read it in the dark anyway. Very dark! thanks

RiNS
RiNS
September 4, 2017 7:37 am

How about dem Norks. Everyone needs to tip their hats to what was achieved. As for what can be done. Obviously not a whole lot and in weird way the world is just a bit less dangerous. Kim feels safer and somewhat more secure.

get used to disappointment
get used to disappointment
September 4, 2017 9:55 am

what about this scenario, we finally have enough of Kims hooha and launch, but they are shot down by the Chinese who say they cannot allow us to harm/invade one of their trading partners, what do we do then, bluster and look stupid? Oh wait-

GilbertS
GilbertS
  get used to disappointment
September 4, 2017 4:15 pm

I think that’s part of the motivation for Un to nuclearize. The Koreas are both pawns between the USA and PRC. As long as we have ROK, we can’t afford to do anything to DPRK, lest ROK be flattened. As long as China has DPRK as a buffer state against the West, DPRK can’t be allowed to do anything to ROK. China won’t let us mess with the North and we won’t let China or the DPRK mess with the South. Neither side can afford to move against the other. China will never allow us to mess with DPRK and we will never allow them to mess with ROK. Stalemate. Now, the ROK is getting antsy about it, because they don’t like the implication they’re not equal partners, and they’re claiming the USA can’t initiate conflict with DPRK without their say-so. If the DPRK is a legit nuke power, they’re in a position to demand respect from everyone involved, including the PRC, who have a certain history of invading and meddling with their neighbors.

Perhaps the real solution to all this would be for us to formally leave the Korean peninsula, call the War over, and let the South Koreans stand on their own two feet? Without us there to rattle our saber, the North would lose much of its reason to exist. I don’t think they’re really prepared to forcibly reunite the South and I don’t know if their 1950s-era army could win if it tried. And if they did win, are they prepared for the flow of information and educated “citizens” they would suddenly be forced to deal with? Exposure to South Koreans might be more than the North Korean regime could handle. The flow of truth from outside the borders might be a bigger threat than all the American bombs in the world.
But I might be wrong.

TampaRed
TampaRed
September 4, 2017 4:40 pm

trump should be making a list of all essential products and services that come from china,and they should be finding alternative suppliers–
he should then tell the chicoms that the jig is up-no matter the cost,either they deal w/n.korea or our markets will be closed to them–

Wild Bob
Wild Bob
September 5, 2017 12:50 am

Fat Elvis is almost certainly mad. From the moment of birth, he’s been worshiped as a god. He has his enemies destroyed using anti-aircraft guns, hungry dogs and poison. Everyone in NK is terrified to as much as look at the man. Each person must always be ‘happy’ to see him, etc.
The North Korean people, although brainwashed, are not stupid, and some information about the real world does get through. Just think, if you had to live the life they do, maybe you’d just want to ‘end it’ (get rid of Un, reset the country). There may be a considerable amount of military personnel who eagerly await conflict, and even proselytize for it.