Guest Post by Eric Peters
Why should it be a punishable offense to “speed”?
After all, it’s not velocity which causes harm. It’s loss of control, regardless of velocity. Loss of control can happen at any speed – and it’s by no means directly correlated with high speed. If it were, travel by air would amount to assisted suicide. Yet travel by air – at very high speed – is extremely safe.
Interestingly – if you care about saaaaaaaaaaaaafety – most accidents happen at low speeds, at below the posted speed limit. They are the result of not paying attention, following too closely.
Things which aren’t “speeding.”
Loss of control is the the thing that hurts you – or someone else – whether at 35 MPH or 350 MPH.
Loss of control is also objective fact. You either did – or you did not.
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This makes adjudication in the event of harm caused not only clearcut but just. A driver who lost control of his car and crashed into another car cannot argue that he didn’t lose control of his car and did not crash. Nor that he didn’t cause damage. There it is. What can he say?
He may claim the loss of control which led to the damage was due to extenuating circumstances – a deer strike, for example.
But the fact of loss of control remains inarguable, a fact. As opposed to a supposition about what might have happened; the assertion that you were driving “too fast” – which is defined in law as driving faster than a number posted on a sign.
The only debatable question is whether the damage ought to be considered the result of extenuating circumstances, something beyond the driver’s control – like a deer strike – or something which could have been avoided. Like not noticing the light turned red or that the car ahead slowed – and you weren’t paying attention or were following too closely.
Your speed being largely irrelevant.
“Speeding” is objective only in terms of whether one did or did not drive faster than a number posted on a sign. It is otherwise without meaning, entirely arbitrary, a kind of secular totem pole which modern savages are expected to genuflect before.
And which the “gods” impose punishment on the heathen for failure to genuflect.
How fast is too fast?
Why?
It amounts to someone’s opinion, when you get down to it. A government worker’s opinion. In the very best case, a speed limit is based on government workers observing the rate at which traffic generally flows on a given road and then posting a number which roughly approximates that rate of travel. This is the so-called 85th percentile method of setting speed limits and it has the virtue of not pathologizing normal, perfectly safe speeds.
But higher speeds are still pathologized – people are punished even though their actual driving can’t be faulted and they may be excellent drivers, in full control of their car (and better drivers, at very high speeds, than many drivers are at speeds below the legal limit).
And the 85th percentile method of setting speed limits is used less and less. Instead, a government workers simply picks a number – a number that almost always pathologizes nearly every driver on the road, since it’s a number below the 85th percentile speed. You can tell it is because everyone’s driving at least that fast and most are driving faster.
The limits also change randomly – almost always going down rather than up.
The sign reads 45 MPH today. Tomorrow, it reads 35 MPH – because a government worker decided 45 was “too fast.” This just happened on a road near me, a section of the Blue Ridge Parkway in southwest Virginia.
But the road has not developed new curves. It is the same road as when the sign read 45, which was just the other day. The cars which travel the road have not regressed in their ability to handle the curves which do exist, either. And – one assumes – driver capability hasn’t declined from one moment to the next, either.
Regardless, what was legal driving yesterday is – presto! – unlawful “speeding” today. It’s unjust on the face of it because of its arbitrariness, least-common-denominator-ism and because a driver who “speeds” isn’t necessarily a driver who has lost control of his car.
The claim is that “speeders” are at higher-risk of losing control, but this is speculation. Hysterical speculation – given the fact that almost every driver is a “speeder” almost all of the time, because speed limits are set below the normal, reasonable 85th percentile speeds people drive.
The majority do not lose control of their car.
If it were true that “speeding” is as dangerous as its detractors (who are usually also “speeders”) claim, loss of control ought to follow almost inevitably every time a driver “speeds.”
The fact it does not says something about the “danger” of “speeding.”
So why are people routinely punished for this manufactured offense – can be punished for it, without even the suggestion that their actual driving was less-than-competent? And in the absence of any harm caused?
There is a better – more objective – alternative.
If a person loses control of his vehicle regardless of speed, hold him accountable for the damage caused.
Otherwise, leave him alone.
Slow speed accidents are more likely and deadlier than high speed accidents, an example:
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/11/05/police-say-man-accused-in-fatal-hit-run-was-doing-134-mph-in-35-mph-zone/
So fuck speed limits.
I disagree with the post. There are plenty of studies that link speed to accidents. Mainly because of the time to react. The assertion that you can punish those who lost control is akin of saying that you could go around with a cocked pistol, your finger on a trigger as long as you “don’t loose control of it”. It is OK only on paper.
However, there are two issues here:
– The target and only target of enforcement should be accident prevention. So you should discourage by all means the revenue seeking policy. There are a few options. Time penalties (lets say wait 1 minutes for each mph excess up to 10 mph, 2 minutes in excess of 10 mph up to 20, 4 minutes… and so on.). Other options would be for the revenue to go to the place where the car is based, not to where the infraction was detected. That will discourage small towns speed traps. Another to forbid fines being part of the budget. Any fine levied should go to reduce the taxes of the following period (with no allowance for “cost of enforcement recovery”)
– Cognitive dissonance: small fines work better that big fines in obtaining acceptance (as opposed of just compliance). That has been proved many times in controlled studies. Only sociopaths don’t fit into this (you can be very though on re incidence for them). You can reason that you are complying with that 60 mph limit because you want to avoid at $150 fine. And that does not produce any dissonance. But if what you are avoiding is a $3 fine or 10 minutes stop and go, that makes no sense. Your cognitive dissonance will tell you that you are doing it because is the right thing to do.
Sancho,
If speed is an issue then please explain why there are fewer crashes on the German Autobahn which outside the metro areas people drive in excess of 120 mph and in many cases in excess of 200 mph.
It is as Eric says. Poor drivers cause the issues with crashes in the US. Quit making excuses for asswipes that refuse to learn how to drive properly. Quit making excuses for the clusterfucks that text on their cellphones while driving. Quit making excuses for women that put on their makeup while driving to work. If any of these morans were caught doing such on the autobahn they’d immediately lose their license to drive. The US needs that kind of no nonsense enforcement. Screw revenue generation. Revoke a license and try the offender when they lose control of the vehicle. Technically, when a driver is doing anything other than driving they do not have total control of the vehicle. If that were done a few times, I bet a lot of people would get the f’n message!
Sancho, Logic and reason – that exercise you just went through above, left the building in Murica a long time ago. Now, most local state and federal government agencies are simply “make work” programs for people that are A: control freaks, or B: on the lower end of the bell curve and could not get a job in private industry doing something productive. This, by the way thanks to government contracting and free money has infiltrated in to the private market as well, at least they don’t have guns yet, and have to bribe a politician still to force their products or “services” on us…banking for instance.
Anyway, I suspect as pensions for these “heroes” get tighter, the speed limits will magically be reduced and the fines will magically be increased. All for safety and the children of course.
The only thing we can do is have sharp eyes, try to avoid areas with many revenue collectors and set the cruise on long straight streets to avoid the natural temptation to actually get to your destination in a reasonable amount of time, without falling asleep at the wheel through sheer boredom. Remember, we are all equal now in utopia Murica.
MAH,
Problem with Sancho’s logic is it starts with a false premise as do most diatribes about speed.
The overpaid fat pigs in a costume bring home the bacon to the corrupt legal system. Then the fraud, AKA as insurance raises the amount they extort from one. BTW, most of those creeps in the black dress’s that sit their above you,are not even artical 3 judges.
I hate that cesspool for a lot of reasons and tax (theft) the entire legal system, the medical fraud. I will stop there. I left 8 years ago. Best move I ever made.
Where did you go?
Just curious, I chose Nicaragua where $5 is the price to pay off a cop.
I prefer my corruption up close and personal.
I spent 7 years in Ecuador. And I’ve been here in Mexico for 9 months now. Lovin it.
Living in MT we have a posted speed limit of 80mph, which I guess was a compromise with the Feds to keep that highway money flowing. On I90 95mph is not uncommon and the flow of traffic. I have been doing 100mph and been passed like I was standing still. I have no idea whether we have more or fewer accidents per miles traveled but I usually see accidents in the winter which is a snow/ice issue not a speed issue per se.
We also have many fewer LEO’s of any type. Unlike the 30 blocks of shame or anywhere in the large coastal cities (or chicago) we seldom see flashing police lights, hear sirens etc. We do have crime but given the smaller cities the local cops know the local perps and the rest of us just go about our business.
On city streets and secondary roads, we drive as fast as conditions allow……that is the gating factor not a posted speed limit. On my main road leaving town I travel 80mph or if its a blizzard, fog etc 20mph….
We are adults we can make our own judgements and when mistakes are made that’s why you have insurance and courts. We don’t need no stinking speed traps.
It’s not speed in of itself. It’s usually the idiots behind the wheel. Unable to consider physics is half of it. The other half is a car incapable of high speed performance-tires, suspension, brakes, etc.
I drove on the German Autobahn for 8 years. There are many areas outside of towns with no speed limits. I can’t remember a serious accident with everybody doing a minimum of 80mph.
It cost somewhere around $3000 dollars to get a German drivers license (20 years ago it was over $2200). Trained drivers in cars that can’t have ANY dents or defects. Strict laws like no passing on the right (recently changed to something like not passing at greater than 20KPH=12MPH). Heavy fines for lawbreakers-getting caught by 2 consecutive speed cameras (that you rarely even see) can boost the ticket to around $2000 dollars.
“After all, it’s not velocity which causes harm. It’s loss of control, regardless of velocity. ” —- EP
Ohmigod. So, in another comparison he would say that if someone jumps off the Emptre State Building it’s not the height that will kill you … it’s the sudden stop.
I love EP articles but, sometimes his hatred for ANY rules (even if the rules make sense) just makes him go off the Deep End in lunacy.
I can do a controlled crash into a concrete barrier at 5mph and all that will happen is air bag explosion. I can do a controlled crash into a concrete barrier at 75mph and my head will explode. It’s not control, Eric, it’s speed.
He must have never stepped outside of America. When I was stationed in Greece back in 1973 there were virtually no restrictions on getting a license …. just pay the money, and drive. It was a fucking nightmare. You literally took your life in your hands every trip you make. I had two accidents there, and several close calls. I was lucky, Other GIs died there. And Greece isn’t even really a backward country.
A quick search shows there are about 222 Million drivers in the USA. Can you imagine 222 million people deciding on their own what speed is safe, and what is not??? Do you know how STUPID most Americans are? Would you want some dipshit teenager driving his car at 60mph down your quiet residential street where your children play??
You know why we need speed limits? Because of people like this;
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Setting a speed limit allows the mindless revenue drones a easy way to generate cash for the oppressive government apparatus and allows government to hire a less intelligent class of drone to do the job.
There should be only 1 charge with regards to motor vehicle operation – reckless driving. There can be degrees if one wants (1st degree for gross and excessive behavior, and 3rd degree for not overly bad). But what the donut eater should have to PROVE is that the way you were driving (whether too fast, weaving in an out of lanes, etc.) constituted a reckless disregard for the safety of others. Indeed, a high standard, but an appropriate standard. I have been passed by cops while doing 80 on a 55mph freeway. Thankfully these cops realized that everyone was doing 75-85 and that doing anything to slow us down would be a mistake…..but the arbitrary law in place make them well-within their purview to bust us all.
Vehicular homicide, and the negative results of one’s driving should still exist as charges if justified, but these are ones related to the EFFECT of one’s driving, not just the driving itself.
Sure, they would need to hire a smarter class of folks, and these folks would actually have to make a case for violation, but it would certainly free them up to go after all the psychotic and reckless young males in muscle cars who infest out nation’s highways.
So. No speed limits in residential neighborhoods? In School zones? in downtown areas with pedestrians? Eric Peters is a very bitter man. I like it when he sticks to cars and technical stuff because I do respect and enjoy his insights into these topics But He has an irrational bias against the police. I am A Cop. OK . I work with a ton of Honest and decent officers. A lot are former Military. Who are in great shape btw. Don’t go anywhere near a donut and believe it or not , treat citizens fairly and kind. Our Department does a ton of charity work for the community to include buying back to school supplies and Christmas toys for kids whose families don’t have much money. I once googled Peters and a image of him came up of him sitting leather clad all cocky on a 1990’s vintage crotch rocket.
Not a ad photo, But clearly of a man with a smug overinflated ego. So I bet his hatred and contempt of all cops was probably sown or nurtured when on one some distant, fateful day once upon a time on a highway in Virginia, he was probably arrested for Reckless driving. Just a guess. Then all the bitter trolls come out to defend or glom onto this Douchebags twisted pretzel logic. Sure there’s dick cops. There dicks and assholes in every occupation and walk of life. His logic. No speed limits. Ok. Eric Sure.
Do you want your kids or family run down by some speeding lunatic. Yeah Eric sure. But maybe a narcissist like him doesn’t really care about others safety. That the universe doesn’t revolve around his silly ass. A little baby and his mother were Run over and the baby boy was killed August 31st 2016
in Leesburg VA by a speeding Jerk. They were in the crosswalk. Look it up. Little Tristan Schulz wont have a chance to grow up and enjoy life because of some self entitled Douchebag had to get to his appointment 2 minutes faster. Think about that for a moment.
Did the posted speed limit stop the baby from being killed?
The speed limits already exist all over the country. Jerks and assholes ignore them. They also drive drunk when that is against the law.
The truth is that 90% of the speeding tickets written are in speed traps where they charge a poor sucker $150 for going 40 mph in a 25 mph zone where he is endangering no one. Speeding tickets are nothing but a revenue stream to pay for bloated police departments and their fat government pensions. Convince me that speeding tickets stop assholes from running over babies.
You should love this article I wrote a few years ago.
Vox Populi……And Mothers Against Fast Driving. The local libbys are up in arms about speeding in my town. Interesting excerpt from the boro message board:
Gigi xxxxxx, xxxxxx Boro·27 Apr
Thank you, Robert. Now, how do we get drivers to stop driving at 50 MPH on 25 MPH roads?
Robert:
Boro·30 Apr
Another possibility is a Constable hired by the boro to enforce traffic laws. His salary and equipment costs could be partially offset by fines collected for traffic violations, poop scoop scofflaws and yes, (uggh) parking tickets. The rest would be financed by raising property taxes. Anyone volunteer for the job? A nice proposal for the next Boro Council meeting agenda.
I said the magic words, “Raise your property taxes”, and all of a sudden a constable is a bad idea; Also Gigi doesn’t like parking tickets and her dog shits on my lawn.
Gigi xxxxxxx, xxxxxx Boro·30 Apr
How ’bout some speed bumps for the quieter streets that drivers use as through streets – E. Prospect, Columbia. This sounds way more cost effective, and I think would really help.
Vox Populi is a big part of the problem.
Robert (QSLV)