What are the chances that America’s disunion turns into Civil War?

Guest Post by Ian Morris

Is the United States on the brink of a new civil war?

According to Newsweek magazine’s polling, a third of all Americans think such a conflict could break out within the next five years, with 10% thinking it “very likely to happen.” Plenty of experts agree. Back in March, State Department official Keith Mines told Foreign Policy magazine: “It is like 1859, everyone is mad about something and everyone has a gun.” He rated the odds of a second American Civil War breaking out within the next 10-15 years at 60%.

October’s awful events — pipe bombs sent to leading Democratic politicians and supporters, the mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh — have only amplified these fears. “We are now nearing a point comparable to 1860,” my Stanford University colleague Victor Davis Hanson recently wrote in the National Review.

The historian Niall Ferguson, another Stanford colleague, suggested in The Sunday Times of London that if someone were to design a “Civil War Clock” comparable to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists’ “Doomsday Clock,” the designer would probably now be announcing that it is “two minutes to Fort Sumter.”

Ferguson himself is more upbeat, thinking that “the time on the civil war Doomsday Clock looks more like 11.08 than 11.58.” It seems to me, though, that all these speculations are deeply misleading — so much so, in fact, that the main thing they illustrate is how not to use the past to understand the present.

Similarities, differences and broad patterns

There are certainly some striking similarities between the American political scene in the late 2010s and that of the late 1850s. Both periods saw extreme polarization over issues of intense economic and emotional importance. At both times, the country divided geographically, with more urban and educated regions leaning one way and more rural and less educated regions the other. In both periods, highly partisan media inflamed passions, sometimes brazenly peddling “fake news”; and at both stages, the country was recovering from a severe financial crisis.

It is all very alarming — but that does not put us minutes away from Fort Sumter. In the nearly four years that I have been writing columns for Stratfor, I have repeatedly drawn attention to a distinction that logicians like to make between “formal” and “relational” analogies. A formal analogy involves finding similarities between a case about which we know a lot (such as what happened in the United States at the end of the 1850s) and one about which we know less (such as what is just beginning to happen in the United States at the end of the 2010s), and extrapolating from them to variables that cannot be observed in the less well-known case — concluding, here, that if polarization, sectionalism, financial problems and political violence produced civil war in the 1850s, they will have the same result in the 2010s.

The problem with formal analogies is, of course, that no two cases are identical. The modern rage over globalization and its discontents does not come close to the moral intensity of the 19th-century arguments over slavery, while the consequences of the 1857 financial meltdown were nowhere near those of the 2008 collapse.

Even more striking, the forms of political violence in the two periods are very different. The 1850s experienced nothing like last month’s pipe bombs, the 2017 shooting of Republican Rep. Steve Scalise and three others or the 2011 shooting of Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others; and the 2010s have seen nothing like U.S. Rep. Preston Brooks’ near-fatal 1856 attack on Sen. Charles Sumner on the floor of the U.S. Senate, let alone the “Bleeding Kansas” insurrection of 1855-56 or John Brown’s raid on the federal armory at Harper’s Ferry in 1859.

The devil is in the details, which means that differences are just as important as similarities when we try to learn from the past. But how do we weigh up the pros and cons of comparisons? This is where the second kind of analogy comes in. Rather than cherry-picking convenient similarities and either ignoring or arguing away inconvenient differences, relational analogies begin from broad patterns in multiple well-known cases and proceed by understanding how a less well-known case fits into the larger structure. So, rather than wringing our hands over how much 2018 resembles 1860, we should be looking at how civil wars began in a wide range of different contexts, and then asking how well the late 2010s fit into that pattern.

Sufficient and necessary causes

The most obvious point is that the polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package is not just shared by 1850s and 2010s America. It was also common in many other eras that ended in civil war. The English Civil War of 1642-51, for instance, was preceded by decades of comparable disturbances. The population split into “court” and “country” factions (nowadays more familiar as “Cavaliers” and “Roundheads”). Each had its own geographical base and religious affiliation, with High Church Royalists and Puritan Roundheads literally ready to mutilate and burn each other over their differences.

Distrust of institutions was even worse than in 2010s America: Royalists accused Parliamentarians of blasphemy and corruption, while Parliamentarians replied that Royalist corruption was even worse, and was magnified by the royal court’s sexual deviance and willingness to sell the country to foreigners. Throughout the 1630s, financial crises paralyzed government and political violence mounted. Pro-Parliament mobs murdered bishops and besieged royal favorites in their mansions, and, in the 17th-century equivalent of sending anthrax spores through the mail, a leading Parliamentarian received a package containing a rag soaked in pus from the sores of a plague victim. He suffered no ill effects — then as now, biological terrorism was difficult to do well — but within a year, the two sides would fight their first pitched battle.

The Roman Republic provides another classic case. In the 50s B.C., the political elite was deeply divided between what Romans called populares — men such as Julius Caesar, who presented themselves as champions of the masses — and optimates such as Pompey the Great, who claimed to stand for virtue, tradition and the nation as a whole. Webs of patronage and debt bound much of the population to one faction or the other. Escalating financial crises ruined cities and regions, and entire provinces lined up behind strongmen who claimed to be able to save them — Gaul with Caesar, Italy with Pompey. Politicians fortified their homes against mob violence, street gangs regularly stopped elections from being held and assassination became almost commonplace. The civil wars that began in 49 B.C. would leave millions dead.

However, although England and Rome provide alarming formal analogies, things get more complicated as soon as we start looking for relational analogies. While the polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package regularly leads to civil war, it does not always do so. In Rome, for instance, the package was in some ways even more prominent in the 130s B.C. than in Julius Caesar’s day. Tiberius Gracchus, usually seen as the first popularis politician, tried to cancel the debts of poor farmers and redistribute elite properties to them. A constitutional crisis ensued, splitting the ruling class. To conservatives, Gracchus seemed to be rallying the impoverished peasants of Etruria against Roman urban interests to make himself king. In political violence going far beyond Brooks’ assault on Sumner, a meeting of the Roman Senate in 133 B.C. ended with conservatives breaking up the wooden benches on which they sat and using the pieces to beat Gracchus and 300 of his followers to death. Twelve years later, his brother Gaius also died in political violence over much the same issues. Yet civil war did not erupt in either case.

Similarly, following Henry VIII’s break with the Roman church and dissolution of the Catholic monasteries in the 1530s, England experienced just as much polarization, regionalism, financial crisis and political violence as it would in the 1630s. However, it did not tip into civil war, although it came close. The United States was arguably almost as divided and haunted by political violence in the 1960s as in the 1850s, yet it too escaped civil war. We can only conclude that the polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package was not a sufficient cause for civil war in Rome, England or the United States.

Nor was it a necessary cause. In Rome and England at least, civil wars broke out in the absence of polarization, regionalism or financial crisis (although political violence is, by definition, always part of civil war). In A.D. 69, which became known as “The Year of the Four Emperors,” multiple civil wars convulsed Rome, but they were driven almost entirely by generals’ ambitions to seize the throne. Similarly, between 1135 and 1153, England was torn apart by such severe civil wars that the period came to be called “The Anarchy.” The violence was so extreme, one chronicler recorded, that “Men said openly that Christ and his saints slept”; yet the polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package was largely absent in the 1130s. A royal succession crisis and fragile state institutions were all it took.

The polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package that 2010s America shares with 1850s America can be present without leading to civil war, and civil wars can break out without the package being present. We can only conclude that these forces are neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for civil war. The dark prophecies of a second Civil War within the coming decade might well be nothing more than bad scholarship.

It’s the Army, stupid

So, the obvious questions: Why do the polarization/regionalism/financial crisis/political violence package and civil war sometimes go together and sometimes not, and will they go together in America’s short-term future?

Fortunately, the answer to the first question was worked out long ago, by the Roman historian Tacitus. Looking back on the Year of the Four Emperors some 50 years after the event, he recognized that “Now was divulged the secret of the empire — that emperors could be made elsewhere than Rome.” What he meant by this was that although the empire’s political institutions were all concentrated in the city of Rome, if the armies out in the provinces decided to intervene in the political process, they always had the final say. Rome lurched into civil war in 49 B.C. because Caesar and Pompey each had armies to back their political ambitions. It did so again in A.D. 69 because no fewer than four rivals found themselves in this position. It did not lurch into civil war in 133 B.C., though, because its mighty armies remained aloof from politics.

England stumbled into civil war in 1642 because it had no standing army at all. When relations between the Royalists and Parliamentarians broke down, each could safely set about raising its own armed forces with no fear that Leviathan would intervene and stop them. This was Thomas Hobbes’ central point in his 1651 masterpiece Leviathan; only a powerful government with terrifying armed force can scare people straight and deter them from using violence to pursue their own ends. Things had been even worse in 1135, because in addition to there being no strong central army, dozens of barons had their own private armies, which they gleefully unleashed on rivals. In the 1530s, by contrast, despite the mass uprising in defense of Catholicism known as the Pilgrimage of Grace, the barons largely remained loyal to Henry VIII and civil war was avoided.

When relations between Northern and Southern states broke down in 1861, the United States had more in common militarily with England in 1642 than with any of the other cases discussed here. It did have a professional army, but it contained just 16,367 men, and 179 of its 197 companies were stationed west of the Mississippi, so far from the initial areas of fighting as to render them irrelevant. In any case, one in five of the U.S. Army’s officers promptly resigned their commissions to join the Confederate states and thousands of noncommissioned men simply deserted and followed them. The government in Washington effectively had no army to enforce its will, and both sides — like King Charles I and the English Parliament in 1642 — had to set about raising forces almost from scratch.

Nothing could be less like the United States’ position in 2018. It has the most powerful and professional armed forces the world has ever seen, and there is absolutely no doubt about their loyalty to the legitimate government or commitment to the principle of civilian command. American soldiers, sailors and airmen do have political opinions, but they currently can be relied on to put their duty first. The United States therefore has far more in common with Rome in 133 B.C. than with any of the other cases. Even if U.S. senators start killing each other with chair legs, the armed forces will not take sides, other than to implement orders — so long as the orders are legitimate and legal — from their elected commander-in-chief.

When we look at the recent civil wars in Syria, Yemen and Libya, or at places such as Egypt where civil war has been averted, nothing matters so much as the stance and strength of the armed forces. We have to conclude that the American Civil War Doomsday Clock does not stand at two, or even 52, minutes to midnight. The very idea is ridiculous. So long as the armed forces remain true to their highest traditions, it will not matter how angry the American people get or how badly their politicians behave. There will be no second Civil War.

Ian Morris is a historian and archaeologist. He is currently Stanford University’s Jean and Rebecca Willard Professor of Classics and serves on the faculty of the Stanford Archaeology Center. He has published 12 books and has directed excavations in Greece and Italy.

This article was published with the permission of Stratfor.

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45 Comments
SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
November 7, 2018 10:46 am

The basic conflict between the two periods is the same, borrowing from one of my fellow TBP bloggers (reworded slightly)…

The primary conflict is between those who want to be left alone versus those who want to use the power (force) of the collective (government) to steal resources from one group to give to the other.

Same primary reason for the Civil War and the ongoing divide we witness today… Chip

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  SmallerGovNow
November 7, 2018 10:47 am

PS, those that insist it was all about slavery are full of shit… Chip

Eyas
Eyas
  SmallerGovNow
November 7, 2018 11:46 am

Sure it was. (about slavery, that is)
Initially it was about the Northern states trying to put an end to the economic advantage that Southern states got from free labor.
Then it was about the Northern states enslaving/subjugating the free (white) citizens of the Southern states.

Despite the existence of abolitionists and others truly opposed to chattel slavery (most of whom likely wore southern cotton and ate southern bacon), the war itself was not a philanthropic mission for the freedom of black slaves.

I’m always amazed that people have to pick a side. I’m not a fan of chattel slavery. Nor do I think you can spread freedom by conquest and subjugation. I don’t think there were any “good guys”.

BUCKHED
BUCKHED
  Eyas
November 7, 2018 12:43 pm

More like the North stealing from the South…via taxation . Ever heard of the “Tariffs Of Abomination ” ?

Eyas
Eyas
  BUCKHED
November 7, 2018 5:51 pm

maybe

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
  SmallerGovNow
November 7, 2018 12:28 pm

But the divide of which you speak is not 50/50 anymore. Now the scramble for power encompasses 80-90% while only about 10-20% wish to be left alone. Yes, the majority pretends there are differences between them, and aligns themselves with the two power camps, but in the end, their desire to control the reins of power, and even the powers they wish to control, are not terribly dissimilar.

Southern Sage
Southern Sage
November 7, 2018 10:57 am

Hmm. Interesting take. I have to disagree with his apparent unbounded confidence in the U.S. Armed Forces staying loyal to their “highest traditions”, whatever those are these days. If this was 1945, or 1955, or even 1995, I would probably agree. Unfortunately – and largely thanks to George W. Bush and Obama – the U.S. military is not what it was. The military is only of use to the government if it can actually be used. Any major employment of the military against the core U.S. population, i.e., middle class white people, would lead to complete disaster and disintegration of the military, and rapidly. The author ignore the possibility that the armed forces would largely stand aside if widespread civil unrest breaks out. The American military is not rained, equipped or psychologically prepared to be used to suppress the American people and this would be especially true if the core population was seen by most soldiers as engaging in a legitimate effort to defend the historic American nation. The other real possibility is that the military would simply fall apart, something made more likely by the “diversity” that has been imposed on it.

Harrington Richardson
Harrington Richardson
  Southern Sage
November 7, 2018 11:47 am

Could be “a whole lot of fraggin’ goin’ on.”

John
John
  Southern Sage
November 7, 2018 9:37 pm

Have to agree on the basis that the populace knows who among it are members of the military and who their family members/friends are. How many military would be willing to remain loyal if they knew that all loved ones associated with them would die due to their actions?

None Ya Biz
None Ya Biz
  John
November 14, 2018 6:38 am

Didn’t bother the troops in the German Army or other parts of the German government. Come to think of it, it didn’t bother any of the troops in the USSR Army or members of the USSR government either. I expect the same of the troops of the united States military and its governmental minions.

Francis Marion
Francis Marion
  Southern Sage
November 7, 2018 10:42 pm

I agree with your assessment SS. That may very well be the point mind you. The US is vulnerable primarily when it is divided against itself and the military is in disarray. You would be ripe for invasion under these circumstances.

Eyas
Eyas
November 7, 2018 10:59 am

Sorry to link this for the third time. It really ought to go under a post about the likelihood of Civil War:

https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2018/11/05/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-in-anne-arundel-county/

The day after the Mid-Terms, it occurs to me to wonder who Gary J. Willis voted for.

Enjoy your govertainment, … while you can.

Stucky
Stucky
November 7, 2018 11:25 am

” There will be no second Civil War.” ———— article

Moronic, really. Can he actually see into the future? The overly long “analysis” he provides prior to his conclusion is juvenile, at best. There are probably thousands of variables that cause a Civil War to erupt …. many may never be truly known, for who can know the hearts of men? …. and merely looking into previous civil wars as an indicator to predict whether or not another Civil War will occur is truly Fool’s Gold.

Here’s what I think will happen (I don’t have a Crystal Ball either) …. per a story from the Bible;

[imgcomment image[/img]

Year 1: Noah’s neighbors laughed their asses off saying “There will be no rain!”
Year 2: Noah’s neighbors laughed their asses off saying “There will be no rain!”
Year 3: Noah’s neighbors laughed their asses off saying “There will be no rain!”
Year 4: Noah’s neighbors laughed their asses off saying “There will be no rain!”
Year 5: Noah’s neighbors laughed their asses off saying “There will be no rain!”
.
.
This went on for about 50 -75 years. And the neighbors were right each and every year.

Until the rain did come.

[imgcomment image[/img]

Then they stopped laughing. But it was to late.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
November 7, 2018 12:13 pm

love it Stucky. greetings from your old friend Catfish

Stucky
Stucky
  Anonymous
November 7, 2018 12:56 pm

Catfish????? Niiiice. Hey, man! Great to still see you around, even as an Anon

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Stucky
November 7, 2018 12:30 pm

Twice, in as many days…! Must be somethin’ in the air.

Well they blew the horns
And the walls came down
They’d all been warned
And the walls came down

They stood there laughing
They’re not laughing anymore
The walls came down

Sanctuary fades, congregation splits
Nightly military raids, the congregation splits
It’s a song of assassins, ringin’ in your ears
We got terrorists thinking, playing on fears

Well they blew the horns
And the walls came down
They’d all been warned
But the walls came down

I don’t think there are any Russians
And there ain’t no Yanks
Just corporate criminals
Playin’ with tanks

Unreconstructed
Unreconstructed
  Stucky
November 7, 2018 11:25 pm

One of the most terrible verses in the Bible,”…and the door was shut.”

NatGold
NatGold
November 7, 2018 11:41 am

Does this historian know about the 200 trillion in unfunded liabilities? Does he take into account the 80% of US dollars held abroad? Does he consider that the “American people” that he thinks will behave badly are mostly counterfeit-Americans?

Tommy
Tommy
November 7, 2018 11:49 am

When they take away our unlimited credit card and demand the bill be paid, while some do very well and remain off limits and unscathed, then you’ll have something to worry about. Even then, I doubt the masses will really be up for something as brutal – with no end in sight, meaning – no one to blame, as what a true civil war would offer. I’d be more worried about china during our time of tumult actually. They’ll sucker punch us for sure, and likely back it up with what they are doing to their own people now. How do you suppose they’ll treat an enemy?

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
November 7, 2018 11:56 am

We already have a civil war…It just hasn’t gone hot yet, which is a good thing.

AC
AC
  pyrrhus
November 7, 2018 3:41 pm
Anonymous
Anonymous
November 7, 2018 12:05 pm

Oh lordy, if the antifa riffraff go fisticuffs with the trumpistas its called a civil war. Man and we’ve waited 80 years for that. Not much of a Fourth Turning is it?

LibertyToad
LibertyToad
November 7, 2018 12:20 pm

RE: ” “…and everyone has a gun.”. Not true at all, we’re the ones with most of the guns.

22winmag - PFC Frank reporting for duty
22winmag - PFC Frank reporting for duty
November 7, 2018 12:20 pm

The South was Right!

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
  22winmag - PFC Frank reporting for duty
November 7, 2018 12:28 pm

Except that they should have picked their own cotton. LOL.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  MrLiberty
November 8, 2018 2:44 am

You’re right, Liberty. I would have picked cotton back then to avoid what we have in this country now.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  22winmag - PFC Frank reporting for duty
November 8, 2018 2:43 am

I agree, 22.

Dutchman
Dutchman
November 7, 2018 2:41 pm

With the 1860 Civil war, Lincoln had the power of the presidency behind him, the army, the treasury.

I think a civil war is unlikely today because it’s about the people being dissatisfied. We would have to upend the entrenched government which has command of the army. It would have to be one hell of a push.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
  Dutchman
November 7, 2018 6:08 pm

Some of us are dissatisfied in general, but the vast majority are simply dissatisfied that their “clan” is not in power. They are generally not openly dissatisfied when they are in power. That sadly leaves only a remnant (as it has been historically called) to stand up for what’s right, beyond the political rhetoric of the two-party oligarchy.

Craven Warrior
Craven Warrior
  MrLiberty
November 8, 2018 5:17 pm

You would think it’s a sporting event, wouldn’t you? They hated Obamacare, but we still have it. Maybe they changed the name, but the content is the same.

People will vote for Satan if he has the right letter after his name. Gotta stick by your team.

Civil war? I wonder if we could get enough people off their couches and away from their gadgets long enough to have a real war.

The war will come when the sh*t hits the fan and inflation or deflation is the name of the game. When hunger means more than having the munchies and no one is worried about diabetes anymore.

Then there will be a war between civilization and barbarism. And there won’t be anything civil about it. Wonder who will win?

RiNS
RiNS
November 7, 2018 3:43 pm

Should it surprise anyone that he feels this way? Profeesor Morris is most likely a Post Modern Leftist who pours contempt on everything outside the gaze of educated coastal regions.

He writes

with more urban and educated regions leaning one way and more rural and less educated regions the other.

This fellow thinks that enlightenment can only be found on the coast. He seems quick to forget his history while being mesmerized by lights that shine only on him. He is a moth who skirts the flame while ignoring his wings being singed.

It can happen again and with a flick of a pen. The Professor needs to read between the lines for the warning signs. Yep they are all around. In cities are piled high with the indigenent and any spark risks becoming a calamity.. And if the Professor was paying attention it would be easy to see…

History rhymes as the match meets light…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Irish_Saved_Civilization

Drilling past the insolence of the Good Professor it does seem a shame that he doesn’t yet realize his ignorance. He must be oblivious to the rot and the decay. Those classics he now studies were once saved for him in Monasteries….

Over the hills and far away.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  RiNS
November 8, 2018 2:47 am

Great comment, RiNs, and great song.

Craven Warrior
Craven Warrior
  RiNS
November 8, 2018 5:20 pm

And education only comes from overpriced universities ran by a bunch of effete, wimpy intellectual idiots. What a load of condescending bs.

wdg
wdg
November 7, 2018 4:27 pm

First of all, the “Civil War” from 1861 to 1865 was not a civil war but a war of aggression of the bankers and manufacturers of the north against the south in violation of the Constitution which included the right to succession.

Second, the coming civil war won’t be much like a war but more like a massacre should the DemoRATS and their supporters choose conflict. Let’s see. On the side of the Democrats are: 1) Blacks and Hispanics, 2) radical feminists; and 3) the pantywaist members of homosexual community. On the side of patriotic conservatives are: 1) active and retired White military men; 2) heterosexual men conditioned by hard work on the land and trained in hunting and the use of guns; 3) God fearing men and women motivated by truth and a belief in a greater good and a higher power. Now I ask you, does that seem like a fair fight?

MrLiberty
MrLiberty
  wdg
November 7, 2018 6:12 pm

Sad that you only think there are two sides to this conflict. Clearly you are happy being on one of the two you cite. But what if the real conflict is between those who are happy to exploit the power and violence of government on behalf of what THEY want, and those who simply wish to walk away from it all and be left to their own self-governance and freedom? Which side would you choose then? Because if you choose the latter, you will be on the morally right side, but likely in the vast minority. And plenty of those folks who claim to be “patriotic conservatives,” will gladly go against those who wish to restore freedom….if they honestly think they can successfully win and wield the vast powers of the central government. Don’t kid yourself. And if you choose the former, the democrats will be standing right with you, as will most Americans.

Wolverine
Wolverine
November 7, 2018 5:36 pm

“So long as the armed forces remain true to their highest traditions, it will not matter how angry the American people get or how badly their politicians behave. There will be no second Civil War.”

What Mr. Morris fails to consider is that when our financial markets experience a liquidity crises and all of our “on time” delivery systems stop the civil war will begin. Riots in all of the major population centers when SNAP cards stop working because there are no grocery deliveries. Martial law with urban mobs moving to the countryside. Instant civil war. Posse Comitatus prohibits the use of the military and how dedicated are our national guard when their families are starving.

I don’t think so. Civil war is coming and it will be a time to right many wrongs – on all sides.

Unreconstructed
Unreconstructed
  Wolverine
November 7, 2018 11:31 pm

It’s not going to be a “Civil War.” It’s gonna be a clusterfuck!!

Persnickety
Persnickety
November 7, 2018 7:49 pm

“Nothing could be less like the United States’ position in 2018. It has the most powerful and professional armed forces the world has ever seen, and there is absolutely no doubt about their loyalty to the legitimate government or commitment to the principle of civilian command.”

BULLSHIT. This is absolute and total drivel. Our military is nowhere near as large today as it was in the 1980’s, or in the 1940’s, or as the USSR’s army was, etc. etc.

We have plenty of ra-ra America First egoism, but in reality our 2018 military lacks capability and discipline, due to politics and relative unattractiveness for qualified young men.

And with gang members and black racism on one hand, and plenty of basic tribal conservative affiliation on the other, it’s pathetic to treat the military as having unquestioned loyalty. If things get hairy the USMC will mostly follow whoever looks conservative, and the other three branches will split at the individual and unit level based on personal interests.

KaD
KaD
November 7, 2018 10:32 pm

https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/07/protesters-tucker-carlson-house/
A left-wing mob showed up outside Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s house Wednesday evening, posted pictures of his address online and demanded that he flee the city of Washington, D.C.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
November 8, 2018 2:03 am

Why do people think “rural” equals less educated? Plenty of people in rural areas go to college, too.

Hollowpoint
Hollowpoint
November 8, 2018 7:40 am

When the dread time comes for the FUSA it will be all against all. I never could see how anything like a crushing economic collapse could ever end up as a “civil war”. It’ll be a race war. Not 1861 America, but rather like 1991 Yugoslavia, with a unique twist.

Persnickety
Persnickety
  Hollowpoint
November 8, 2018 10:54 am

What is the unique twist? Yugoslavia’s break-up was one for the record books in terms of messiness.

Steve
Steve
November 8, 2018 10:34 am

Whites quietly watch and observe. There is only so much they/We will take. If that undefined line is crossed it could get very ugly. My hope is it never comes to that point but the opposition seems determined to find out where that line is.

None Ya Biz
None Ya Biz
November 14, 2018 6:32 am

Stopped reading after the author mentioned a 2nd Civil War (there hasn’t been one yet in the borders of what constitutes the united States. The term Civil War is defined as two opposing factions waging war for control of the same country. The war between the CSA and the USA was not a civil war. It was a war to prevent the north from losing its most important tax base and prevent the south’s independence from Washington. Lincoln stated as much. Lincoln, in fact, supported continuation of slavery as a political expedient. Yep, if it benefited Lincoln and his cronies, he was just fine with slavery continuing.

I also rake exception to his slanderous statement about education. I bet the ass wipe couldn’t pass an 1895 8th grade Salinas Kansas test. Not saying I could either but to state that rural Americans in 1859 were less educated than city dwellers is a load of crap. Each locale has its educated and its illiterate so don’t use that straw man as an excuse for hostilities. Of note, 23 of the 63 cadets of the fifth class in 1858 at West Point were from southern states aka rural states. You don’t get an appointment to West Point for being illiterate. Also, Robert Edward Lee, Commanding General of the Army of Northern Virginia (now known as West Virginia, created illegally) was born, raised, educated in a rural setting. So F the author for his bullshit about rural individuals being uneducated.

What it boils down to is, as one other poster here stated, “The battle is between those that wish to be left alone and those that want unbridled power”. The north in 1859 wanted to subjugate the south using heavy taxation. The south refused to be taxed and left the union. Lincoln in his first inaugural address stated as long as the southern states, even though they had left the union, ponied up the tribute to the FedGov that he would leave them be. Now that takes some balls to threaten what was at the time a foreign country, the Confederate States of America with War if they didn’t pay extortion money to the united States government.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic
  None Ya Biz
November 14, 2018 6:42 am

None, this is one of the best replies I’ve seen yet. And you are correct on your history.