Submitted by Maggie
Guest Post by Larry Sanger
Prefatory notes—I wrote the first draft of the following essay about the horror of pedophilia in late 2016 or early 2017 and posted it on Medium and Quora, where it got quite a bit of attention. Since I deleted my accounts on those sites last winter, this essay (and a number of others) have been unavailable. But I want this and a number of other essays to keep circulating, so I’ll be posting them here on my blog. The following essay in particular seems important in light of the Jeffery Epstein imbroglio.
But it wasn’t the Epstein case, or any particular case, that originally led me to write about pedophilia. It was, rather, a long-standing interest in applied ethics in general, together with the (to me) jaw-droppingly incredible fact that people defend pedophiles. (As was the case with philosopher G.E. Moore, a lot of my philosophical writing is basically in reaction to absurd positions that other people take.) When I first encountered this rhetorical phenomenon in 2002—that was when pedophiles first descended upon Wikipedia—I simply couldn’t believe it. My naive incredulity disappeared through repeated encounters with pedophiles in connection with Wikipedia. In fact, I came to believe I had an obligation to do at least a little something about it, which is why I reported Wikimedia Commons’ pedophilia pages to the FBI in 2010 (which took no action that I know of).
All that said, this is no more a pet cause than any others in applied ethics. I have also written about the evils of murder, racism, antivitism (a neologism of mine), censorship, violations of privacy, and other topics in applied ethics. I especially like my essay on “Our Moral Abyss.”
I have rewritten the essay slightly, and follow it with some replies that I made to comments by real, live pedophiles (they’re online and quite shameless, if you didn’t know) that I hope will clarify my arguments.
First, let’s talk about what the word “pedophilia” means. People who write about pedophilia insist that the word means (a) sexual attraction to prepubescent children (or, sometimes, any children below the age of consent). But, of course, people often use the word to mean (b) actual sex with children, i.e., what is more correctly described as child sexual abuse or (these mean the same) child rape.
I want to state very clearly and defend the thesis that pedophilia in both senses is not just “bad” but deeply evil. This is not a thesis about either psychology or the law, but instead about morality.
It’s distressing how poorly the evil of pedophilia seems to be understood. So let’s try to get very clear, beginning with (b) actual sex with children.
Child sexual abuse is an act so damaging and degrading, and at the same time shockingly selfish, that it deserves to be called evil, if anything is evil: for some moments of pleasure, the adult causes the child life-long trauma.
The moral horror of child sexual abuse
Sex with children is a horrific evil because it traumatizes the child for life. In this regard, it may be compared to torture and rape of adults; even after the act is over, it continues to wound. It fills the child with undeserved shame and low self-esteem for life. For some adult survivors, this pain becomes so unbearable that they take their own lives. It permanently alters the child’s understanding of sex. Some suffer (and that is the right word) from nymphomania, and some become completely closed off to all sexual relationships. Horrifyingly, it also makes victims more likely to be abusers when they grow up.
Child sexual abuse is an act so damaging and degrading, and at the same time shockingly selfish, that it deserves to be called evil, if anything is evil: for some moments of pleasure, the adult causes the child life-long trauma.
I want to assert very clearly and forcefully that anyone who presumes to evaluate the morality of child sexual abuse without discussing the horrible facts about these consequences is, by that omission, perpetuating the evil. I would argue that every discussion of the subject should make unequivocally clear that, however “pedophilia” is defined, sex with underaged children is a horrific evil and is intolerable. This would not be so important if pedophilia were widely understood to be a terrible evil, if it did not have its shameless advocates; but since such advocates do exist, it is incumbent on the rest of us to remind those who might be at all confused on the point of these basic facts.
Another shockingly incorrect stance on this topic is that sex with prepubescent children is wrong only when the child “doesn’t consent.” This needs only one reply: the trauma described above will happen whether or not “consent” seems to be given by the child. And, of course, children are not capable of consenting, because they don’t understand the nature of the sex act or its consequences. Anyone using such phrases as “if the child consents” is using the language of pedophilia apology and is very highly suspect.
There are other reasons why sex with children is wrong as well, and they bear briefer mention. Children can be physically injured by sex. It can result in pregnancy among girls as young as 12 (sometimes younger), and in STDs among both boys and girls, which only compounds the horror. Child rape is one of the most egregious violations of the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit. It deeply damages families and family life. And of course it is against the law, and age of consent laws exist for very good reasons, as I hope I’ve explained.
An evil mental disorder
Some writers demand that everyone use the words “pedophilia” and “pedophile” according to senses defined by psychiatrists. But, just as we may opt not to extend our everyday use of “fruit” to tomatoes, even though biologists tell us they are fruit, so we may opt to continue to use these words in their popular senses.
As a philosopher, i.e., someone trained in the definition of concepts and argumentation over how to apply words, I want to advise the opposite: you may and should continue to use the word as you always have, at least in most contexts. A pedophile, in this popular sense, is someone who sexually abuses children, or who tries to, or who wants to. To be clear, I’m not saying that these ought to be the scientific or clinical uses of the terms. I’m saying that the everyday use, which I am discussing here, need not mirror the clinical use.
The medicalization of a condition clearly does not preclude its moral evaluation.
But now let’s do talk about the clinical sense: the desire to have sex with children. This, too, is a moral evil.
Some will bristle at that mere claim. They act as if the fact that psychologists write about, and treat, pedophilia means that, since pedophilia is just a medical condition, it is off-limits for moral evaluation. This argument is so obviously fallacious that it actually serves better as a reductio of the premise; in other words, the medicalization of a condition clearly does not preclude its moral evaluation.
Others will say that mere desires obviously can’t be morally evaluated. Admittedly, among the people who write about this subject, it is a less popular stance to say the desire and not just the act is evil. But it is worth pointing out that, if you were to take a poll — I couldn’t find any, probably because it seems so obvious — you would discover that the vast majority of people find the desire to have sex with children to be very bad indeed, and I’m guessing most people would have no objections to placing the label “evil” on it.
I am not saying this is an argument for the claim that desire for sex with children is evil. But it puts in context the frankly bizarre and disturbing practice of some to treat pedophilia as merely a psychiatric disorder, as if it were not a very deeply serious problem for other people as well. Let us grant that pedophilia, in the sense of desire for sex with children, is indeed a psychiatric disorder; indeed, there seems nothing well-ordered about it. But most of us simply couldn’t care in the slightest that it is a psychiatric disorder, i.e., we don’t care that there is something wrong with the brains of pedophiles, except insofar as such people pose a threat to our children. Pedophilia as a disorder per se rightly strikes us as a threat, and such a monstrous threat that it is evil.
So, yes, well spotted, pedophilia is a disorder. But that does not stop us from condemning it as something quite evil, not just a clinical condition like, say, high blood pressure. I do so condemn it, and so should we all.
Mind you, I don’t mean to say I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for the psychological condition of a person who wakes up one day finding himself wanting to boink little boys and girls. It is, rather, that I greatly prioritize the health of families and communities far above whatever pain an illicit desire might cause such a person. In fact, the priority of the former is so much greater that I can say that the only significant reason that most of us need care about the mental health of a pedophile is that, through caring, we might perhaps prevent child sexual abuse. There is no other important reason.
If this still isn’t clear, think of it this way. I suppose there are people who want very badly to rape women. They fantasize about it, they watch rape porn, they might have come close at times. Some have actually done it, although others have never done it. Call such a person a rapeophile. (Arguably, an extreme form of a DSM-5 category, sexual sadism disorder.) Now, if pedophilia is a mental disorder, I think it is safe to say that rapeophilia is one too. To be sure, being a rapeophile might cause a person great mental anguish; it certainly should. But in this situation, whom do I care more about: the rapeophile, or women who might possibly be in danger from the rapeophile? Obviously, the latter — even if the rapeophile has never acted on his desires.
How can pedophilia be evil if is beyond a person’s control?
But, some critics will say smugly, you’re missing an obvious objection: how can pedophilia be evil if is beyond a person’s control? The short answer is that it’s not entirely beyond a person’s control. But let’s back up a bit.
As a philosophy instructor for many years, I taught undergraduates the common maxim that one cannot be responsible if one lacks freedom; if we ought to do something, or not, then it must be the case that we are free to do it, or not. How can we be obligated to do something that isn’t in our power?
When psychiatrists inform us that pedophilia is a mental disorder and when certain (I think quite contemptible) activists insist that pedophiles cannot control their desires, these claims are sometimes used draw the definitely false conclusion that pedophilia, in the psychiatric sense, is not bad.
Desires and compulsions are not unalterable facts of nature.
I deny the premise. I claim that pedophilia, or the desire to have sex with children, can be controlled. Alcoholism too is a mental disorder and it can be controlled, albeit with great difficulty. That is why I maintain that alcoholism is quite morally bad. Many people—many recovering alcoholics—agree wholeheartedly with me. All acknowledge at least that it is an addiction, and few would object to the good advice that we should not allow ourselves to sink into that awful swamp before it gets that bad. Indeed, I would say, we bear a huge obligation to ourselves to avoid it. But admittedly, once we are addicted, it becomes more understandable if we do not heroically and suddenly de-addict ourselves. Still, we also bear a very heavy burden to lift ourselves out of addiction as well as we can, and, after the fact, we can still be blamed for allowing ourselves to become addicted. We will bear this burden until the addiction no longer afflicts us; and then we will still bear the burden of not letting ourselves sink back into it.
Desires and compulsions are not unalterable facts of nature. That’s a fact.
And this fact is, as it turns out, a deeply important point that must not be passed over lightly, much less dismissed. It is entirely unrealistic—as well as cynical and corrupting—to deny the adjustability of desire. After all, a great deal of morality and psychiatry both, as well as rehabilitation in criminal justice, are concerned with adjusting unwelcome desires. To treat desires and compulsions as unchangeable forces of nature is essentially to give up on moral improvement, psychiatric recovery, and criminal rehabilitation.
Universal experience teaches that intense desires do not simply arrive full-blown in our heads. They creep in, as it were, experienced as mere possibilities. We consider them, perhaps briefly, musing. If something is quite taboo — for example, murder, sex with a sibling, or using the “n” word — then most of us will drop the idea immediately, and the desire has little chance to germinate.
Let’s suppose there is a person who, for whatever reason, has unusually weak self-control. If this person finds himself with a desire, he has no filters to rein it in; it doesn’t occurs to him that he should not reject it. Instead, he nurses his desire. He thinks about it. He considers and discusses with himself; he imagines; he plans, but without acting on the plans.
Suppose that person is a pedophile.
The pedophile then, finally, decides that he has a problem, that it might be wrong for him to have these desires. Is such a person not morally culpable, foolish at least if not actually evil, for allowing such desires to fester unchecked? Why wouldn’t he be? Think about any illicit or undesirable desire you might have had in the past — for too much porn, dessert, alcohol, drugs, game time, or whatever your vice might be. It can be hard to stop yourself from indulging in bad habits. But do you not also remember when you developed those bad habits, and when you could have much more easily reined them in?
Why should the desire for sex with children be any different? Don’t just claim that it is different; explain very carefully how and why it is different. It isn’t.
Someone might argue that I am comparing bad habits like overeating or drinking too much alcohol — and those are actions — with an undesirable desire, which the pedophile we’re talking about doesn’t act on. If he never indulges the desire, why think the mere desire is bad?
This is a fair question, but there is a clear answer. The thoughts are bad, of course, because people who lack the self-control to order their thoughts often lack the self-control to restrain the behavior that the desire would lead to. We do not leave children alone with people who confess that they have pedophilic desires, because desires might lead to action.
The desire is horrific because the action is horrific. Would we not also be horrified by someone confessing he thinks constantly about raping women? I certainly would be.
This is the main reason, then, that pedophilia in the clinical sense is horrifically evil: it can, and sometimes does, lead to a horrifically evil action. It is idle and sophomoric to insist that, after all, it might not lead to that action. A person who lets such an evil desire fester and grow strong has for that very reason demonstrated a lack of self-control. The risk is significant, and it is a risk of a great evil.
The desire is horrific because the action is horrific. Would we not also be horrified by someone confessing he thinks constantly about raping women? I certainly would be.
Let me consider one final reply. What if someone claims to have this desire but that it is fully under control — that he would never rape a child, and would only ever fantasize. Putting aside worries about the risk, surely mere fantasizing hurts no one.
Well, no; it is not fantasizing per se that makes pedophilia so evil. It is, first and foremost, the risk. And anyone who is so out-of-control as to permit these feelings to fester in himself is a risk, so far as the rest of us know, no matter what he may say. And while the fantasizing might not hurt anyone, it certainly does increase the risk.
Pedophilic feelings have other ill effects. They can cause someone to go looking for child pornography, which creates a market for actual child rape. Even drawn child molestation can increase the chances of a desire for the real thing, thereby creating a market. After all, if a pedophile enjoys looking at drawn pictures of children being molested, surely he or she might get even more excitement from actual photographs.
It is also an undesirable desire because the pedophile must never act on it. It is, for that reason, in addition to be horrifically evil, also pointless.
Let me clarify one last point. In this section I’ve been arguing that pedophilia, considered simply as a desire for sex with children, is horrifically evil. But I am not saying that psychiatrists or clergy or others who are working directly with pedophiles should be highly judgmental. I have no opinion on that; I suppose psychiatrists should do whatever in their clinical experience reduces the disorder fastest and most permanently, while remaining humane, of course.
Stop the pedophilia apology
If you look online at discussions of pedophilia, one of the first things you will read about it is not how evil child sexual abuse is. Instead, you will read that pedophilia is just a feeling, and feelings can’t be controlled, so pedophiles aren’t bad. The fact that this is the popular narrative horrifies me, and I think it should horrify you. The narrative is not only quite wrong, for reasons I’ve already explained, it is also quite dangerous.
Even those who agree that sex with children is a great evil unwittingly contribute to the problem, if they speak as if pedophilic desires were unalterable facts of nature. When a behavior seems to spring from a desire or a psychiatric diagnosis, modern thinkers are in the unfortunate habit of treating the desire or diagnosis as, indeed, incapable of change, when they certainly are not.
There’s a funny thing about free will: the more we believe that something is in our control, the more control we have over it. By contrast, the more we believe that something is out of our control, the less we will be inclined to do anything about it. It is as if a belief in free will gives us free will.
Therefore, I’m afraid that those who characterize pedophilia as an unchangeable desire are actually directly contributing to the problem. It would be like telling alcoholics that they cannot escape their alcoholism. If they believed that, then why would they even try? And just imagine saying that aloud to “rapeophiles”: “Too bad you have a desire to rape women. Now that you have it, make sure you don’t act on it.” We can’t imagine anyone with such a complacent attitude in the #MeToo age. Why countenance such an attitude toward those who desire to rape children? Are children less worthy of protection than women?
If your illicit desires are unchangeable, if you bear no responsibility for them, then why fight them?
Heeding this message — and also horrifically — many pedophiles regard their condition as just “another sexual orientation” that may be responsibly indulged (i.e., only in fantasy). One can find a sympathetic group for practically anything online, including pedophilia. I’m sorry to report that, in my experience, pedophilia propagandists are online, active, and emboldened.
Pedophilia must never be normalized. Have no compunctions about calling it evil; it is important that we do call it evil; we prevent this evil from spreading by identifying it as such.
Their propaganda is disturbing. Consider: There is the plea that we should “understand” pedophiles first and foremost, often with no attention to the risk to abuse victims. There is the drive to consider a deep moral evil and societal cancer as primarily a matter of clinical study and treatment, with the implication that moral evaluation is somehow unscientific and reactionary. There is, incredibly, “activism” on behalf of “age of consent reform,” as if advocacy on behalf of one of the most horrific crimes imaginable were somehow “progressive.” And there are aggressive demands of tolerance of drawn depictions of child molestation — created by and for pedophiles — because it is a “victimless crime.” Never mind that what is depicted is, for all decent people, one of the most heinous of crimes, worse than rape because it is the rape of children. Never mind that the consumers of such depictions are pedophiles who must restrain themselves from that crime. These abhorrent practices normalize pedophilia.
If there is one reason that we should insist that pedophilia is a criminal behavior as well as a disorder, and that it is a horrifically evil one at that, it is that we should take a stand against those who would, quite deliberately, try to normalize it. If it is normalized, this will embolden the weak and the malevolent to indulge their desires. We have less to fear from those who are strong-willed enough not to act on their desires. But the world is filled with weak and malevolent people who are only too ready to indulge their desires when an opportunity arises. There is no social or individual benefit to be gained from normalizing pedophilia. If there is one thing that deserves to remain taboo, it is this.
Pedophilia must never be normalized. Have no compunctions about calling it evil; it is important that we do call it evil; we prevent this evil from spreading by identifying it as such.
– fin –
Note: what follows are some replies I made to pedophiles, yes, real-life pedophiles, who commented on the Medium copy of the above article. I’m not including the pedophiles’ replies because I did not save copies of what they wrote when I left Medium.
Reply #1
This is a reply to a teenage self-confessed pedophile who said he’d never acted on his feelings and that I was very mean for lacking empathy for his plight.
I’m writing so that unformed minds, who might be confused by the likes of you, won’t be. I have absolutely no desire to have “empathy” for pedophiles, any more than I want to have empathy for rapists. Frankly, I think child molestation is considerably worse than rape of adults; it is a truly horrific crime. “Non-Offending Minor Attracted Persons” is no more legitimate than, and no more deserving of empathy, than “Men Who Want to Violently Rape Women But Restrain Themselves.” The only reason to empathize with such a person’s pedophilia is to prevent crime; and the way that crime might be prevented by empathy is not by making the criminal (or would-be criminal) feel better about their criminal ideation but by coming to understand their patterns, motivations, and other things that allow us to (a) catch and punish criminals and (b) aggressively prevent actual child abuse.
If any teen of mine confessed to being sexually attracted to little children, I would (a) explain in great detail why pedophilia is not just a little bit wrong, but horrifically evil (and probably make them read the essay I wrote, and demonstrate excellent understanding of it) and (b) immediately seek professional help from a therapist who agreed with me that pedophilic desires must be treated as criminal ideation, with a goal of eliminating them as much as possible.
It’s silly and absurd to be accused of having a “look-how-morally-upstanding-I-am” tone as I patiently explain how evil pedophilia is. I have also carefully and patiently explained why murder is wrong, and nobody accused me of being self-righteous. That’s because normal people don’t think they’re particularly great because they don’t commit crime. For normal people, that’s just the baseline.
But I will, of course, show no compunctions about telling pedophiles directly and without regret that you are not just “sick,” but deeply morally corrupt, and I don’t mean a little bit or in a hip and edgy way (like, e.g., drug abuse seems to some people), but in a straightforward your-heart-is-black way. Pedophiles are evil. They don’t need empathy. They need therapy in the way that muggers could use rehabilitation — not because we feel sorry for the pedophiles (or muggers), but because society desperately needs them to refrain from their evil behavior. And the notion that pedophilia is a sexual orientation that needs to be normalized is horrifying and beyond obscene.
Reply #2
This is a reply to a European graduate student in the humanities, I think, who thought he was being clever by making sophistical replies to the arguments in my essay. These are my rebuttals.
Matt, as you are speaking as a pedophilia apologist, and as you are speaking to someone who believes pedophilia (in both senses defined in my original essay) is evil, you have no credibility or authority. So when you adopt a tone of condescension, you merely come across as ridiculous. I’m still laughing at you. And this is why I’m not going to reply to your laughable attempts at zingers; they just make you look creepier.
Here are a few replies:
I wrote: “Non-Offending Minor Attracted Persons” is no more legitimate than, and no more deserving of empathy, than “Men Who Want to Violently Rape Women But Restrain Themselves.”
You responded, irrelevantly: “Exactly how is it not legitimate? Are you suggesting that it is impossible for a pedophile to control their actions? You’ve already argued that they can in your previous article.”
“Rapeophilia” — defined, say, as the exclusive or predominant desire to rape women — is about as legitimate as pedophilia, defined similarly but with regard to children. So imagine someone came up with “Non-Offending Rape Attracted Persons,” or NORAP, and said the various sorts of things about their desire to rape women that you say with regard to attraction to children. They just need help; they shouldn’t be ostracized; they should be “understood”; don’t judge them as a potential rapists because most of them don’t rape; etc. Well, it’s pretty damn obvious that saying these things in defense of a fictional NORAP category is no different from saying similar things in defense of NOMAPs (i.e., pedophiles). Considering that defense of rapeophilia is utterly illegitimate, we can also say that defense of pedophilia is utterly illegitimate.
Now, I’m glad that you at least pay lip service to the notion that pedophiles can control themselves. But I say more than that they can stop themselves from raping children. I say, furthermore, that they bear a heavy burden to deny and rid themselves of their desire to rape children, which they should have denied and repressed the moment it appeared. Instead, they went with it. It is playing with fire to indulge potential criminals by saying that their desire to rape children is a “sexual orientation” on a par with heterosexuality or homosexuality, by saying that there’s nothing wrong with fantasizing, etc. Imagine a group of people, the worst of whom are regular rapists, who say, “There’s nothing morally wrong with people who can only get off on rape fantasies. They can’t control themselves. We should understand them. Some women actually secretly want to be raped, you know — but of course, we believe rape is very, very wrong. (Except, of course, for the people who think it’s just fine, right?)”
You’re not even nearly as clever as you think you are. You’re an idiot. Your bias in favor of people who commit horrific crimes has made you unable to understand basic reasoning. I don’t have many opinions about the best way to rehabilitate pedophiles. I know I’m not a psychologist, so I don’t generally opine about such things. But I do have an opinion about social mores: it should never be an acceptable part of society to encourage adults to accept within themselves their attraction to children. That is, and should remain, one of the strongest taboos we live by. I don’t know or particularly care what therapists say to pedophiles in their therapy sessions.
I also have an opinion about the goal of therapy is the same as the goal of therapy with rapists or alcoholics or drug addicts: to rid themselves of the desire. In this regard, it’s very, very different than the goal of therapy for homosexuals. Most people think we shouldn’t try to “cure” homosexuals; I’m one who thinks we shouldn’t. In that regard, homosexuality can be regarded as a sexual orientation whereas pedophilia and rapeophilia cannot. Similarly, wine tasting and being a whisky connoisseur can be regarded as more or less healthy pastimes; alcoholism isn’t, and alcoholics bear the heavy burden to rid themselves of their compulsion.
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I saw and visited this link in the Beto discussion. A big thanks to whoever linked it there!
I felt it warranted posting. Thanks Admin.
Warning: After Mary posted the boundary crossing essay about abortion, I started looking down the women’s lib mousehole which do know a bit about, former commenters notwithstanding.
All roads which separate women from their natural nurturing role spell big trouble for children. Abortion is part of that societal change.
Mutilation, experimentation, prostitution/sale and even sale for harvesting are also happening. We all TskTsk the idea of children as livestock in someone’s brothel but do we grasp that many of those kids are SOLD into slavery by guardians? Do you know about foster care for indigent kids?
I read some books about the history of sexual deviancy to better understand the cause. I learned a LOT about the things they DO in their strange sick world.
There is only one cure.
FACE IT AND NAME IT.
Pedophilia is generational unless it is discovered, admitted and stopped. Emphasis on stopped.
Galations 5 22-23
I saw the link from a Saturday thread. I think it was Tampa. I read it during a slow time at the local street fair where we were a vendor.
I was on my husband’s phone so emailed the link…thanks Tampa I think some vital information is here to be shared.
I did not see it until this morn. But I haven’t felt like reading or commenting between battle clashes.
Even red ropes gotta.regroup and rest.
NorthWestLibertyNews on youtube talks about the corruption in state child protective services all of the time.
Have you noticed since Epstien was disappeared that the MSM dropped all mention of the people who were directly involved with him? They are worse than worthless.
I saw a headline along the lines of “oops, where did all those young girls disappear to?”
I assume they are dead and Hillary ate their pineal glands. HALF-sarcasam.
Pedo’s are evil and in other news, the Sun is extremely hot….pretty sad you have to take the time to write an essay asserting the obvious. Pedophilia is, however, a useful organizing mechanism for the evil Deep States (see Denis Hastert) much like any gang…blood in, blood out. Abuse children to get into the inner circle (Bohemian Grove, Epstein, the Penn State coach, the Podesta’s etc.) and then you are controlled for fear of being outed…..best explanation for John Roberts on the SCOTUS as well as many others.
Seems to be an incurable orientation, so while harsh we should simply execute all those convicted of sex with a child….and by a child, I mean pre-pubescent, not statutory rape. The only definitive way to make sure the offenders never ever re-offend. Like most solutions there will be the falsely convicted and the Deep State could falsely convict its enemies (Kavanaugh).
Did read it, MH? I know it’s quite long. It needs a better title. He wrote it because he was seeing so many apologists for Pedos. Hence, the reason why he titled as he did.
As if the pedo problem isn’t bad enough, you now have people coming out of the woodwork trying to explain why this is perfectly normal. I keep wondering how bad it will have to get before God actually intervenes.
As it was in the days of Noah…
…pretty freakin bad.
I actually found references to other writings about the supposed days of Noah.
It leads to the cherubim guarding the Tree…the ONE tree.
That was a chapter title in a fantasy thriller.
About elves perhaps. Another pagan belief.
transhumanism …. we’re getting close ….
What does that really mean?
Well, I read this book and made a shitload of notes. The History of Homosexuality. Why? Because that is where the origins of the Women’s Suffrage Movement and Women’s Equality finds its roots.
And there is where you find the greatest hostility to “Mothers” and the product of mothers. Children.
War on the traditional family is war against procreation. It is insanity.
I noticed a certain hostility to mothers in A Confederacy of Dunces.
Did you see Jed’s discussion about fast girls with Jethro? Poppa Grooch just told his boys (3 of them) to “keep it in your pants” until you want to start paying for kids. That is how you prevent unwanted kids.
Simple, but effective.
You can wash the pants.
Aw, come on! “Irene”was a classic type for Irish-Catholic-mom-only guys in JKT’s extended adolescence! Myra Minkoff was the mom for whom he had the hots as well as hostility, though she wasn’t a mom. Lana Lee was the fantasized “big mama” for Ignatius . Far from hostility, ol’ Iggy had other ideas.
As an aside, this is one of my top ten novels of all time. Burma Jones is my favorite “brown” character of all time, bar none. What a shame that JKT decided to call it quits, but we all owe him for a work well done. I chose not to try and write it but to live it and it was among the best decisions I ever made. Thanks, JKT, and may you rest in peace.
Genesis 6:5 KJB… “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Planning on submitting it as a post of its own, Preacher Man. I think, if you haven’t visited the site, you will like Quillette…
https://quillette.com/2019/09/12/narrated-coming-together-to-honor-a-dead-rock-star/
no comments, but very wide range of articles about cultural issues that help broaden my own Biblically limited perspective. 😀
I make Nick work hard for his cookies, let me tell you! Haha…
I appreciate you taking the time to do this…as you point out there are far too many apologists and even supporters of pedophilia as a moral equivalency of hetro…..I was simply lamenting the need to do so!
I will also support and echo the biblical/spiritual element here….no doubt in my mind that satanic forces move these pedo’s and provide them aid in the pursuit of their debauchery.
Which logically extends to the leftist/deep state cabal that embraces pedophilia also is aligned/controlled and enamored of satan.
God always protects his remnant. We will overcome and survive.
Horrible subject that unfortunately needs addressing I was blessed to have a loving family that looked out for me and a alpha male personality from a very young age that precluded me from becoming a victim although many tried and that was in the 60s so this horror has been around around for awhile
A Pennsylvania former cop and veteran pleaded guilty to possession of the most horrific child pornography and distributing it for over a decade. Pedophile Cop Admits to Running Horrifying Child Porn Network That Included Infants
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-pleads-guilty-to-kiddie-porn-distribution-of-more-than-4000-images-and-videos/
Nice one, hard to imagine that abuse of the badge to further a pedo obsession, may he burn in hell after living a long and very painful existence in prison…..the convicts don’t much like the pedo’s or cops….I can’t imagine them salivating over this specimen!
which………doesn’t exist
A wood chipper for the cop would be suitable.
Only Draconian laws and Capital punishment will keep the number of pedophile sex crimes to a minimum and the population of active child rapists to the lowest possible amount.
be quiet, no one asked you
Faggot
Those who harm the innocent do so because they can abuse that which cannot fight back in any way what-so-ever. The thought of a grown adult male sexually violating a three month old toddler and essentially killing the child boggles the mind. Evil incarnate, evil unspeakable. There are many in very high places who engage in such horrors and they never, ever face any form of punishment because of their positions of power and because they belong to a network that protects it’s own. Look to Britain for some hideous and long-standing pedophilia rings.
The monsters in academia and media who push the NAMBLA/ child sex agenda should be vigorously censored and called out for their evil. Then, they should be taken out and shot. We, as a society have allowed and made allowances for too much. This is the tipping point.
Manbla is a vile organization with demonic backing.
I pray for them all to be SMITED.
Once this plateau is crossed, there’s no turning back.
8 YEARS OF TRUMP TAX RETURNS SUBPOENAED BY MANHATTAN D.A.
I just reread the last of this again and I cannot emphasize enough how strongly this entire issue BEGS for all of humanity to put the lunatics in the UNREAL world of academia and intelligentsia on alert: We see through your ivory tower. It is invisible and you are naked of authority over our minds.
“I also have an opinion about the goal of therapy is the same as the goal of therapy with rapists or alcoholics or drug addicts: to rid themselves of the desire. In this regard, it’s very, very different than the goal of therapy for homosexuals. Most people think we shouldn’t try to “cure” homosexuals; I’m one who thinks we shouldn’t. In that regard, homosexuality can be regarded as a sexual orientation whereas pedophilia and rapeophilia cannot. Similarly, wine tasting and being a whisky connoisseur can be regarded as more or less healthy pastimes; alcoholism isn’t, and alcoholics bear the heavy burden to rid themselves of their compulsion.”
The idea that people cannot learn to CONTROL their behavior is ridiculous. Of course they can.
Or they die. An eye for an eye; a life for a child’s innocence. In jail or as a eunuch.
Organised paedophilia, of the kind hopefully more people have been made aware of, represents the reckless vandalising of the future of humanity through the destruction future generations. It is probably the deepest evil there is.
I read a horror story about two gay men in Europe who had adopted a young child. A girl child.
What? The? Hell?
Agree! Pedophilia is evil! For a person to believe society should “empathize” with a Pedophile, we must first ignore the monstrous harm done to the child victim. To pretend evil doesn’t apply because “someone can’t resist” is to agree with and enable the despicable act. It is a common lie, used by evil people, to soften the extent of their crimes.
As a parent, there is not a snowballs chance in hell I would ignore harm done to my child or any other.
My nephew pled guilty to first degree child molesting and served 8 years and was released. He committed two more felonies and is in for life
The guilty plea when he was 20?
Pled to avoid the RAPE charge against a 3 year old girl. He should have been castrated.
My brother did not handle his child well.
While I do not hate him, I hold out little hope.
And that is how u become whodewho and only tmwnn need know if he even gives a shit.
And, by the way…the next lesson is on what hackers do. By Payola. BB she is 45. She is a lot younger than me. It would be neat. TBP’s version of Bachelor.
jesus fucking Christ, cry cry cry! sob sob sob. if rape hurts people so much then they can get some fucking help….
I have told most of you that one nephew is in prison and it did not happen soon enough.
I believe most of us could probably tell some horror stories about child molestation at the personal level.
And, each of our stories should be heard in whatever way you would care to tell them.
As I said, I decided to do some real research into this garbage filled fudge packed tunnel of love and I picked up some really foul language while in that viewpoint. I think some of it spilled over…
Anyway, please share your story, even if briefly and as anon with absolutely no email address entered. Or, do what I do and discover what I discovered…
[email protected] has a cute little moniker, doesn’t Zhe?
How many whodowho types are around here who could say “Here’s what happened to my sister/mother/child/me…?”
And, if you don’t want anyone to know, just be a whodewho from whoville, too.
There are certain acts which are simply naturally evil, one such being the abuse of children.
The answer to natural evil is to permanently remove it from society. I recommend using a wood chipper for the removal. That society does not move to protect itself is proof positive that evil is taking root at an increasing pace.
A wood chipper seems too easy. I would prefer for the pedo to be gut shot with a .22 and thrown in a hog pen, with no way out.
I did not say I would drop them in fast.
Feet first.
Right or left?
Or in one session.
I side with the other…..I got my AR15 and gonna hunt me some parents.
Ima walk into the movie theatre James Holmes style and step on your corpse and say. can you hear your guardian angel crying? I can and it’s music to my fuckin ears
There are only TWO acceptable punishments for pedophiles.
—1) Castration … followed by LIFE in prison. (No chance of parole.)
—2) Death penalty.
Optionally, I’m open to the Jeeebus Method — tying a millstone around their necks and casting them into the sea — I’m just not sure where to get millstones these days.
Stuck – as with anything, if there is a demand, someone will fill it. If they start doing this, then maybe I will open a millstone factory. I could churn them out in no time.
Send me a peck. I will paint them red, white and blue and haul them to Alaska!
I always liked breaking on the wheel and Scaphism or “the boats”…..
@Stuck, @llpoh
http://www.mainemillstones.com/millstones.html
Seems worthy of mention regarding the society sanctioned old dude Muslims with the child brides. Child can be up to and including early teen age girls.
Instant assassination by any civilized society seems to easy to me.
Knew a plumber who found his teen age daughter was physically abused by her boy friend. Mother took daughter out to get away for a cool down. Upon their return dad had the boy friend tied to the back of his pickup with a log chain preparing to drag him down the gravel road from the house. They convinced him to unchain the idiot, but obviously the love affair was over.
We need more dads like that.
There should be seminars. “How to hogtie a pervert.”
More men like Jed are needed.
BL? Know any?
Way too fucking long. We all agree pedos are evil . Shorten it up and more May read it.
It is very long but he covers aspects of the sordid issue many do not address.
Most like you do not want to read it. We just Know it is wrong. I did not want.to read it but after I did I emailed it to JQ who posted it.
There really are Gen Xers and younger people I know who believe there is nothing wrong with sexualizing children.
They will not read it either. They cannot READ.
“There really are Gen Xers and younger people I know who believe there is nothing wrong with sexualizing children.”
THAT is truly frightening! If what you describe is the present state of USA youth (cannot READ”), then there’s truly big trouble in River City:
. And it goes way beyond a pool table, beer or pretty much anything else.
Dunno if this was picked up before, but pushing this crap in a university is way beyond the pale.
https://summit.news/2019/09/15/ohio-college-normalizes-pedophilia-as-a-sexual-orientation/
An Ohio University is doing the same thing.
It was posted here last week.
if you click on the screen shot in the article ursel posted & after it opens another window click on it again,you’ll see the tweet thread where i got the link–
the screen shot of the girls in the class has been shown as being in both san diego & ohio,my guess would be san diego but either way it is illustrative of just how far we’ve fallen–
schools of higher learning were once mostly founded by churches and/or wealthy,devout people who wanted to uplift & give back to society–
now they’re a place where kids go to be deprogramed & remove the ideas they’ve gotten from mom/dad,society,and the church–
EXACTLY the problem…
TampaRed, I got the link from you and forgot where exactly I got it… it was a great article and the other essays at the link are equally well written.
Thanks for the link.
It is so important to teach children they cannot have everything that feels good or gives them instant gratification without EARNING it.
Anyone with any sense at all should realize the different between feeding and clothing a child and spoiling them into being narcissistic monsters incapable of realizing their place in greater society.
The Gen Xers are way more damaged by the drug culture of the 80s and 90s than we were by the hard acid rock culture of the 60s and 70s, I think.
BECAUSE. BIG. PHARMA. found a market for anti-depressants and methamphetamine in our parents who no longer wanted to be bothered.
Just give him Ritalin, the pediatrician said.
“Fuck you,” I said.
There was a post here the other day which included the punchline “Why do schools end at 3 when work ends at 5?”
Duh… Because MOM is supposed to BE THERE teaching them. The School industry needs to go, boys.
If women want to work, they should work. If they want to be mothers, they should do that. If they want to do both, one will suffer. Two masters never receive equal attention.
Bravo Maggie. Bravo!!!
Why thank you!
I was going to add something about carpet and noodle munching being un-procreational activities, but it seemed unnecessary.
Hmm, point taken since I suppose that comment has to do with a previous exchange you and I had some time ago. I really liked your comment. You seemed to have been raised with very good morals and an appreciation for hard work and thrift.
“…you will read that pedophilia is just a feeling, and feelings can’t be controlled, so pedophiles aren’t bad.”
This assumes that you are somehow judging the person’s soul, or treating their condition, w/o any regard for children’s safety.
But if their safety is your concern, it’s bad news for the pedophile. After all, rabid dogs can’t help it; what do we do with them?
Wow, and insanely long article on pedophilia, without a single mention of the hoaxed Catholic priest pedophile scandal that turned out to be not just grossly overblown, but…
manufactured and FAKE.
http://mileswmathis.com/spot.pdf
Suck it mainstream parrots!
Pedophilia is an issue but like any issue, it’s been hijacked, manipulated, and *overblown in the extreme* by those who write the mainstream narratives.
Pedophilia has been taken advantage of by the society wreckers who constantly pit men vs. women, young vs. old, hetero vs homo, and so on.
I’ve got to thank my parents for keeping me safe growing up. Although, even at a young age, we had lots of unsupervised time. My brother and I even burned down 2 acres and almost the neighbors house at the age of 6/7!!! We lived in MI when I was young. My father owned a very small logging company. We lived on a dirt road and one of our neighbors was a saw mill, one was a large cow farm of some type and the other neighbor was a gravel pit. I remember going on looong walks all by myself on dirt roads as young as 5/6. It was a long time ago but I’d bet some of those walks to my friends house were a mile or 2. Anything could have happened now that I look back. Seriously scary to think what could have happened. I have a couple stories I’d rather not talk about. One was a teacher who took advantage of one of my sisters. It was a small church school. The school was attached to the church. About 10 years ago, I found out the church sided with the teacher. I was very young. I love my sister but she grew up to be a terrible mother (the mother of my homeless neice). The other was the family Dr.
Anyway, I now have a granddaughter and soon a grandson. I feel helpless since I cannot watch over them 25/8/366. Ya know?
I bet every single one of us knows someone personally who was molested or raped as a child.
It is devastating to see a little boy or girl who is sexually aware. If we as a society cannot STAND for that then we need to fall.
Hard.
We seem to be in free fall, don’t we?
I had a girlfriend who was molested by her father.
Is HIDEOUS. I knew a woman at the church where I “babysat” kids for hours for “blessings”* whose father was an Assembly of God minister. She sang in church.
He would come into her room at night, have sex with her while begging God to stop him, then make her get onto her knees and pray for his soul. She was the most amazing woman I met at church. Her husband Dave used to help me lift Poppa Grooch from the car to his wheelchair the few times I was able to take him there.
She said she put up with it until she was 16 because she had to get her sister out of there and she couldn’t do that until she could drive. She drove to a safe house of some kind.
He made her kneel and pray for his forgiveness! She told me she had been through enough Christian counseling she had indeed forgiven him. NOT in person, though. I don’t think God requires that.
*Thank You, Lord! Showers of Blessing.
I’ve got both (two boys and a girl) and they live right next door. Thank God I CAN watch over them and do so . My son (their dad) is often absent due to work requirements, but he and his wife trust ol’ Grandpa to keep those kids safe, something which pleases me no end.
Parade of horribles.
Whether pedophilia is evil or not depends very much on what definition of pedophilia is being used. With that said, I find that activists like this one tend to use pedophilia in the same ways that liberals use racism. In turn, if all references to pedophilia and children are replaced with equivalent concepts of racists and blacks and such, the argument generally appears equivalent to traditional anti-racist arguments. I find that this sort of thing then magically expands its scope to include anyone the author dislikes.
The largest difference that then stands out, is that to say that blacks are too incompetent to be judged for their crimes, would be incredibly dehumanizing, and so no liberal would accept that talking point.
And what do you know, this anti-sex culture leads directly into our current culture of treating children like cattle. I’m fairly sick of hearing all this “for the children” rhetoric, in a society where children are treated like livestock, instead of living, thinking, sentient beings.
In short, capitalism really does work, and denying people access to markets, the right to form contracts, and the right to move about the country, putting them in a position where a sole person or small group has almost total power over them, and they’re considered too incompetent for their testimony to be worth anything, really is harmful. The idea that this culture protects children, seems about as realistic as a claim that Islam protects women.
Exactly why the concern about the children’s well being is just another propaganda tool.
A very effective tool.
We want our kids to fit in so we let them see and hear what they are not old enough to understand. Then they pretend as kids do that they are adults.
And for many, the pretense gets ugly.
Children are children. Not miniature adults.
This is not the only kind of writing we need on TBP. but we do need this kind of writing. He is polemical but can back it up with a logical argument. We need more writers like this on our side.
The problem is very simple,you are dealing with kids being coerced by adults,not two kids of same age playing”doctor”.
The solution,remove from society permanently,once you have proven guilt and not just witch hunts which do happen but proven.
I speak from the viewpoint of one who was fucked with as a kid by a adult,remove them.
I was fortunate to have a father who would not allow his kids to do anything until he made sure adult supervision met his standard. His standard was high. Thanking God for that…and Mother.
A long but accurate condemnation of a perversion that common sense recognizes as just that: a perversion that can never be tolerated, never mind “understood” or permitted. I’m a zen guy, pretty much a “live and let live” kind of person, but I’m also a grandfather and would have no hesitation in killing anyone who tried this horror on my grandchildren. I would kill that person with no remorse but with regret for having been driven to such an extreme. And I’ve made sure that everyone where I live knows it.
Soon pedophilia will be normalized . THIS IS why the LGTBQ shit has been pushed so hard in the past few years.
https://summit.news/2019/09/15/ohio-college-normalizes-pedophilia-as-a-sexual-orientation/
Pedophilia is being taught as a “sexual orientation” and if people are born gay or liking lil kids then how could it be “evil”
I can hear Aleister Crowley saying,
“Do what thou wilt”…
Scary shit!!
One of my favorite blogs and videos about the occult and Freemasonry can be found below!
http://www.secretsinplainsight.com/do-what-thou-wilt-shall-be-the-whole-of-the-law/
not about pedos but imo it’s sick & should not be tolerated–the world’s oldest couple to give birth outside the bible are both now in intensive care–
in india,78 man,74 woman,invitro of course,had twins–he’s now had a heart attack,the birth knocked her out–
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/words-oldest-parents-intensive-care-twin-girls-154035194.html
Grow Up
stephen paddock had CP on his computer when he killed 58 people at a festival 2 years ago. i hope they were parents and i say. nice shot mister paddock! i hate people too! to bad he didn’t break the tripple digets. i saw the whole thing live and laughed the entire time.
hope they had kids
You delete my comments because you don’t have the moral courage to debate the ethics of minor attraction. I’m about to die on this hill fam.🤙🏻