Why The Polls Are Wrong

Submitted by Cow Doctor

Guest Post by William Briggs

Polls Predict Biden

On the evening of October 29th, The Economist updated their poll-based election forecast model. It gave a 96% chance for Biden to take the electoral college, and it said it was all but certain, greater than a 99% chance, he will win the popular vote.

These are incredible numbers. Yet not unusual.

For instance, on that same night, Nate Silver’s 538 site had a poll average of 52% for Biden and 43.2% for Trump (the other 4.8% going to other candidates and uncertainty). Every poll used in that average had Biden ahead. Two had Biden up 12 points over Trump.

Silver wrote that Trump’s chance of winning were “a little worse than the chances of rolling a 1 on a six-sided die and a little better than the chances that it’s raining in downtown Los Angeles,” which he cited as 1 in 10.

There are others beside these two firms, but almost all favor Biden by a large margin.

Silver rightly said, “At this point, President Trump needs a big polling error in his favor if he’s going to win.”

This is not impossible. Most polls in 2016 blew it. Including Silver’s. His last poll average gave 45.7% to Clinton and 41.8% to Trump (4.8% went to the forgotten Libertarian candidate). Silver’s poll-based model gave a 71.4% chance of Hillary winning.

Many modelers were bolder than this—and their record was dismal. There have been several lachrymose postmortems since then searching for the cause of error. There are even fresh efforts at analyzing the 2016 polls, given their eerie similarity to today’s. All these analyses say what The Atlantic says: “Don’t sweat the polls.”

What Polls Are

Polls can be taken in two basic ways: as a snapshot of current desires, or as a prediction of the outcome. There’s no real way to prove any poll erred in summarizing current desires, but it’s obvious how to check them as predictions.

Besides cheating, which usually takes the form of non-serious “news” polls released to generate headlines, like those that hugely over-sample Democrats, polls get predictions wrong because they do not accurately represent what the actual voters “look like.”

Ideally, if 49% men and 51% women vote in the election, then the poll must directly sample 49% men and 51% women, or it must statistically adjust the ratio of sex in their sample so that it matches the 49/51 split. But that means they have to guess what the eventual ratio will be, since nobody knows in advance it will be 49/51.

There is more to who votes, and for what reason, than just sex. There is geography, education, age, occupation, health, party, and many other characteristics. Not everything about people is important to sample: just those things that are tied in some way to how people actually vote.

Unfortunately, nobody is quite sure just what those exact things are. Or what their breakdown will be in the actual election. There is a lot of guessing going on in polls.

Who Was Sampled

The 2016 postmortems focused on the how the (serious) poll samples did not match who showed up the vote. In one such effort, CBS said

An examination of the 2016 electorate by Pew found that Whites with a four-year college degree or more education made up 30% of all validated voters, while White voters who had not completed college made up 44%. Only 38% of college-educated Whites said they voted for Mr. Trump, whereas he won by more than two-to-one (64% to 28%) among white voters who had not completed college.

This assumes college status is important in why people cast their votes, which surely has some truth to it. But it also means that even if a poll sample exactly matches the actual voters in the breakdown of characteristics it tracks, the poll can still be inaccurate. Because the characteristics it tracked might not have been important in why people voted how they did.

This is where models come in. A poll average can be taken as a model, a prediction of the outcome. More usually, the polls are fed into statistical contraptions that can also accommodate other information, like economics measures.

There is nothing special in these models. They, like all models, only say what they’re told to say. In effect, they say, “If the polls are at this level, and the economic indicators are that, then say Biden 96%.” If the modelers guess right about what they tell their models to say, the models will be accurate, else they will not.

The 2016 models weren’t accurate. So they were told to say the wrong things. This means they gave too much weight to polls, or to the other measures put into the model.

Outdated Math

Now the mathematics these models use have been honed and adjusted over many years and many elections. Prior to the arrival of Trump, they didn’t do too badly. These older elections shared many similarities and customs that became irrelevant after Trump. Things changed in a fundamental way. But the models might not know this.

We won’t know until long after the election, when the 2020 postmortems come in, but it does not appear to me that these Trumpean changes have been added to most poll models. Modelers and pollsters seem to still think this will be an election like other elections, at least in most respects. I have no direct proof of this, since I don’t have access to the models themselves, but there is nothing in public statements made by pollsters to suggest otherwise.

One fundamental change is the poll data itself. Are people telling the truth when they say to a random stranger, who is possibly recording the call, “Yes, of course I’m voting for Biden”?

There are many who dismiss the “shy Trump” phenomenon, insisting most tell the truth, or that the fibs people tell pollsters balance out. If you truly doubt the existence of shy Trumpers, then try this experiment. Go into your place of business tomorrow morning wearing a MAGA hat and say “I’m voting for Trump.”

The level of your unwillingness to participate in this experiment indicates your true belief in shy Trumpers. Those who work in openly pro-Trump companies already know what would happen.

Poll models that don’t account for this phenomenon will give Biden a larger chance of winning.

Traditional poll models also give a lot of weight to formal party affiliation of those polled. This would be fine if Trump were a true party man, as Bush and his Republican predecessors were. It’s hard to argue at this late date, though, that Trump belongs to either party. Again, models that don’t note this change will give Biden a larger chance.

Not All Can Be Quantified

The last problem with models are incorporating non-quantifiable information. Modelers love poll and economic data, because they’re hard numbers, and hard numbers are easy to manipulate with math. Modelers come to love their numbers too much, though, ignoring those things that are not quantifiable, but which most would accept are predictive.

Take this tweet by Christopher Rufo: “Luxury shops in DC are boarding up in anticipation of the election.” This is accompanied by a picture of shops readying themselves for the hurricane.

It’s easy to guess who these owners think is likely to win, and who the sore losers will be. How do you put this information into a mathematical model? You can’t, really. Which is why modelers lean toward dismissing unquantifiable yet pertinent information.

The poll I used to publicly forecast a 2016 Trump victory is the same one I use now to make the same bet. Rally size and enthusiasm.

Trump was in small town Wisconsin on the night of the 24th. Reported weather: 37 degrees. Crowd size: at least a thousand, maybe double.

This was the last rally he had on that Saturday, each jammed with enthusiastic supporters. This was not an unusual day.

Joe Biden on that same day was in rural Pennsylvania. No report on audience size, but an NPR picture shows him standing alone in the far distance, looking fairly lonely. A caption for the picture, knowing some would question the lack of a crowd, read, “Appearances by [Biden] and his surrogates follow social distancing guidelines.”

Staying home is, of course, a form of social distancing.

Even Obama is having trouble raking them in for Joe. A video shows Obama haranguing an audience of at least seven people about the wonders of Biden with a bullhorn. They didn’t appear convinced.

When Hillary ran, she drew at least multiple dozens to even hundreds in high school gymnasiums. Some of these crowds were even boisterous.

Biden’s followers, however, resemble fans in an near-empty bleachers trying to start The Wave. They know it’s the thing to do, but their hearts aren’t in it.

Then there’s the t-shirt poll, which is similar to, but easier to understand than the donations-raised poll. Biden t-shirts are going for $2.99, and Trumps for $6.99—or two for $12.00. The seller evidently didn’t think anybody would be buying two Bidens.

The Picture Is Not So Clear

It’s easy to get carried away with this kind of thing. Still, it’s telling there aren’t many good pro-Biden examples. Except for things like this Tiktok video of a daughter who harangued her dying father into voting for Biden to please her. Or another Tiktok with a woman with an asymmetrical haircut dancing badly to “When you say Joe, we say Biden”.

The last bit of evidence I offer is the paradoxical insouciant nervousness displayed by the media: they are a little too anxious to show they are not worried about the polls. This Reuters headline is typical: “So what if Biden is up in the polls? Weren’t they wrong last time?” There are too many stories from the left saying how not worried they are. Some on the left, like Michael Moore, understand this. Most don’t.

There just isn’t any clear way to mathematically model all this, so it’s good information that’s left out. It’s that insistence on strict mathematics that may, yet again, lead to the downfall of the polls and pollsters.

UPDATES

Ignore the asinine coronadoom deaths model. Regression, doesn’t account for age, ignores transmission only in sick and the huge increases in testing, etc. Concentrate on this being yet another indication Trump is drawing much bigger crowds than Biden.

Biden is already testing excuses for why he’ll lose.

‘People Are Going To Be Shocked’: Return of the ‘Shy’ Trump Voter? Politico article which repeats much of the above, but includes detail only the hardcore will enjoy. I do not. I find polls tedious.

There are two schools of thought on the election itself. One is that Trump wins but has the election stolen, such as by the media lying (and, really, do they know how to do anything else) and inciting a color revolution.

The other is that Trump’s victory is so apparent even journalists will have to admit it election night. And then this happens:

Naturally we all pray for the latter outcome.

In order for the media to get away with theft, the election itself has to be tighter than Joe Biden’s grip on his son’s wallet. The media will have to claim with a sufficient degree of plausibility enough to overcome Fox, OAN, and the internet, that the “too close to call” outcome has to wait for the mail-ins and other votes to be counted. They’ll then project and say Republicans tampered with those votes.

This won’t be enough to steal the election, but it would be enough to put doubt in the minds of the Undead Woke Army, who might not be that bright, but who at least know how to follow orders. Besides the DC shops being boarded up, NYC ones are, too. The press says.

The fact of the media-caused chaos, and any right reaction to quell it, would be used as proof that the Trump’s election was illegitimate. That is how, after all, color revolutions work. And, like Jim and others are saying, if they get away that, that would be the End Of All Things.

Let’s see how it goes Tuesday night before commenting further. But my take is that the election will be too lopsided for them to bother trying.

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33 Comments
Iska Waran
Iska Waran
November 1, 2020 12:34 pm

The question isn’t “why are the polls wrong?” – it’s “why would anybody expect them to be right?”. The media’s had it out for Trump for five and a half years. When every article and story has been slanted against him, why would their polls be any different? Why would polls done by colleges – and employing college students – not be infected by bias? Also, when the defining characteristic of the media and professioriate class is hubris – as it is – it should be no surprise that they have no idea how to elicit honest answers out of those Americans they constantly look down on.

Cow Doctor
Cow Doctor
  Iska Waran
November 1, 2020 1:40 pm

Yep

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
November 1, 2020 12:39 pm
Iska Waran
Iska Waran
November 1, 2020 12:48 pm

One more thing: exit polls. Exit polls are ridiculously inaccurate. They’re done by young people. If some earnest and moderately attractive girl (but for the green hair and neck tattoo) asked you who you just voted for, what are the odds you would 1) answer at all and 2) answer honestly? Probably 5% and 20% respectively. Also, if the kids doing exit polling are being paid to get 50 answers, do you think they’re more likely to hang out in a metro area where they can get their 50 answers in two hours, or will they drive three hours out to Bumfuck Egypt and wait outside the town hall for 13 hours to get 50 responses ?

Cow Doctor
Cow Doctor
  Iska Waran
November 1, 2020 1:40 pm

Even more Yep!

glock 1911 M1A .308
glock 1911 M1A .308
November 1, 2020 12:59 pm

The polls are wrong because they are fabricated. Insiders report that they aren’t even based on sampling any more, but rather, they are completely made up. They will use these lies to dissuade/convince morons-of which there is an overabundance-and to declare that Trump/conservatives cheated when the votes show a resounding victory-which will ignite the left to open insurrection. Know that these antifa thugs are motivated and trained, and will attack mainly when they vigorously outnumber their victim. If you are engaged by such, plan on fighting with all the fury you can muster. They do not “fight fair”, and will use whatever tactics and weapons they must to assure your demise. If you’re not packing everywhere that you can now, you’re being careless with your life and the lives of your loved ones.

Cow Doctor
Cow Doctor
  glock 1911 M1A .308
November 1, 2020 1:41 pm

I see the evoking of The Insurrection Act in the very near future.

Bob P
Bob P
November 1, 2020 1:41 pm

Latest polls from most accurate pollster in 2016 have Trump leading in most swing states (meaning Trump victory)–click on @trafalgar_group:

Interesting Twitter thread here opines that Democrat plan to steal election died with Ginsburg:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/10/31/thread-was-this-the-real-2020-democratic-plan-which-got-blown-up-with-ruth-bader-ginsburgs-death-n2579160

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
  Bob P
November 1, 2020 3:26 pm

God can work in mysterious ways, Bob.

Horseless Headsman
Horseless Headsman
  Bob P
November 1, 2020 4:49 pm

Whew. What a list! It’s difficult to believe there are that many people who would vote for the Dim ticket.

TN Patriot
TN Patriot
November 1, 2020 1:56 pm

Who will answer a phone call from a pollster, except someone who is politically motivated to answer. The cancel culture has created the “shy Trump voter” and there is nobody who can accurately predict how many there are that will come out and vote. Trafalger is trying, but I don’t think even they have a handle on it.

MN governor (the same one who let MSP burn by 1,000’s of peaceful protesters) restricted Trump’s rally to 250 and there were at least 10X that many standing outside. I doubt Creepy Corrupt Pedophile Old Joe could hit the 25o number, if you did not count security and press.

piearesquared
piearesquared
November 1, 2020 2:35 pm

The polls show a Biden win because the NWO wants to be sure the Democrats feel robbed when Trump (barely) wins, thereby increasing the anger and rioting. The anger of the Republicans will come slowly after the election, as they finally realize that Trump is not who he pretends to be. Since Trump can’t run for re-election again, he won’t have to try to fool the Trumptards anymore. He will just adopt the Kushner/MIGA agenda full force.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  piearesquared
November 1, 2020 2:57 pm

Or they’re just factoring in the election fraud

Horseless Headsman
Horseless Headsman
  piearesquared
November 1, 2020 4:52 pm

Downvote for the Trump comment. He is more nearly what he claims to be than any recent candidate for the office.

Hollow man
Hollow man
November 1, 2020 3:37 pm

The cheating by the left is more widespread and advanced technology wise. I don’t believe it can be overcome.

Uncola
Uncola
November 1, 2020 4:17 pm

Either U.S. elections are NOT rigged by the elite OR they ARE rigged to ensure a win for their chosen presidential candidate(s).

In the event of the former, a large percentage of U.S. citizens get the leaders they deserve. In the event of the latter, however, which 2020 presidential candidate will best facilitate “The Great Reset” on behalf of the elite?

For those unfamiliar with that Orwellian-sounding nomenclature, here is an excellent article that Robert Gore posted on another TBP thread today:

“The Great Reset for Dummies”

So… with the 2020 race in mind: Biden would lockdown the nation immediately and likely install Kamala as the new American Gun Confiscation Tsar (especially if the Dems take control of both the House and Senate).

How do you think that would go? Of course, not well and that may also be part of the plan.

Or, would conservative gun owners be pacified by a Trump win enough to embrace “Operation Warp Speed”?

Could go either way, ya know?

Jaz
Jaz
  Uncola
November 1, 2020 8:44 pm

Uncola, Imagine all the energy of the Trump supporters if TPTB say Biden wins like Nancy said. “Biden will be sworn in no matter what the vote count is”.
This energy is palpable and will not just go away; I’m ready either way.

Horseless Headsman
Horseless Headsman
November 1, 2020 4:45 pm

If the MSM does what you describe, then an argument could be made that they are promoting insurrection, and they should be dealt with accordingly.

I believe in bad data, so I generally lie to the pollsters.

mark
mark
  Horseless Headsman
November 1, 2020 8:02 pm

Finally got rid of our land line, but for years of polls I was always an independent 34 year old black woman with 2 kids.

And pushed all the Republican numbers on every issue.

Auntie Kriest
Auntie Kriest
  mark
November 1, 2020 8:07 pm

Angry black woman…

TampaRed
TampaRed
November 1, 2020 5:21 pm

doc,
that’s a good find,thanks–
i believe trump will win but we can’t take it 4 granted–for example,yesterday here in tampa there were a couple of big rallies 4 biden–though the shy trump voter is true,the silent biden voters are also out there–
rasmussen,who is cited in the tweets as being accurate, has biden up by 3 points nationally,and that has grown this week–
the big issue imo is that trump has to win by a fairly large % to overcome the fraud–
however,i still believe that we will get an updated version of what i’m posting below–

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 1, 2020 5:57 pm

there is no fucking way barack obama/valerie jarrett and those running biden’s campaign can possibly believe that biden has a snowball’s chance in hell of actually winning the electoral college, and i suspect they don’t believe he will win the popular vote either.

Jaz
Jaz
November 1, 2020 8:38 pm

If you understand ‘energy’, high and low vibrations you can only conclude that Trump has the winning mojo. It’s the same as a football team that has the momentum, they ride the energy.
Biden has nothing but low vibration, low energy all built on fraud and deceit.
In spite of their massive cheating they will not win; it is based on Universal Law of Attraction.
Why do you think they have not had success against removing Trump before now?

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 2, 2020 8:33 am

Polls , vote counts and bull shit since the dead are rising to vote and ballots are stuffed remember in 2016 many districts reported 100% plus turn out one reported 140% turn out all for Hillary . The left could not even cheat well enough to steal the election .
Now we are off with Trump 2.0 and the left who failed to adequately cheat to steal the 2016 election and accused Trump of cheating are at it again

c1ue
c1ue
November 3, 2020 12:56 pm

Christos Makridis had a writeup recently in The Hill – talking about structural vs. modeling errors.
In particular: because of Caller ID – telephone answering rates for polls are around 15%. This leaves a huge area where entire classes of voters can be hiding. The pollsters have some ways to try and detect errors, such as comparing response demo data vs. other data like the US census – but there are no good objective databases listing political affiliation.
Or in other words: if Trump was energizing an entire new class of voters – and these voters are in the 85% of non-telephone answering people – this is a problem which a telephone based pollster would never be able to correct.
This is, in essence, what Robert Cahaly of Trafalgar is saying.
I looked at the top 5 Pennsylvania polls for 2016 – 1 was Trafalgar. Trafalgar uses 6 methods to reach audience: phone (robot), live callers, text, email and 2 proprietary. 3 of the remaining 4 were telephone only; the 5th one was online plus telephone.
Given this, I can believe that Cahaly is onto something. It doesn’t mean he is right but it is certainly a testable thesis which he has shown skill in 2 elections (2016, 2018).
We will see.