When I see the faux journalism like the story below in a liberal rag like Slate, I realize that facts, truth, perspective, and honesty mean nothing to people with an agenda and a story-line to sell. Slate and the pitiful excuse for a journalist decided they were going to write a story detailing the horror of food stamp “cuts” and they sought out a person who fit their sob story. The theme of the story was going to be starving poor people, drastic cuts, and blaming those dreaded Teabaggers for this tragedy. And anyone who wants to believe the drivel in this article will be highly satisfied. It doesn’t matter that the facts do not support the thesis and selecting one person to represent the plight of all 47 million food stamp recipients is the classic methodology of liberals. We should always create a national program or policy based on the circumstances of one person. The multitude of stories about SNAP fraud, the abandoned carts in Wal-Mart when the FSA were going to get caught cheating, and ongoing campaign to sign people up for SNAP when they didn’t have any intention of seeking this assistance aren’t even mentioned. The personal observations by thousands of people about  the kinds of food purchased with EBT cards are nothing but racist rants by Tea Partiers according to the liberal MSM.

Whenever the food stamp issue arises emotions and vitriol rule the day. The liberals declare that anyone who wants to control the costs or reduce the number of people on SNAP is an evil person who favors starving old people. The far right wingers think all food stamp recipients are nothing but moochers and too lazy to get a job. I happen to believe the food stamp program is a necessary safety net program and I’m OK with my tax dollars going to fund it. But, here is where I depart from the liberals and their extreme ideology. Food stamps are supposed to provide a bridge for people temporarily down on their luck. During recessions people lose their jobs through no fault of their own. Unemployment compensation and food stamps are supposed to fill the gap until they can get a new job. You just need to review the historical data to see that the number of people on food stamps always rose during recessions and then fell after the recession was over. It happened in the early 1980s recession. It happened in the early 1990s recession. But something has gone awry in the last decade and specifically in the last five years.

There has been a major entitlement mindset change. Food stamps should not be a lifetime underachievement award. You should not be entitled to food-stamps because you decided to drop-out of high school and you choose not to work or are unemployable based upon your ignorance or appearance. You should not be entitled to food-stamps because you chose to get pregnant for the 4th time by four different baby daddies. Food stamps is a program to help people TEMPORARILY down on their luck through no fault of their own.

In 2007 there were 26 million people on food-stamps, which was lower than the level of 1994. It had been on a steady but slow uptrend since 2000 and had settled around the 26 million level. The annual cost was not an insubstantial $33 billion per year. We then had a massive financial crisis and ensuing recession. The bottom of the crisis/recession occurred in 2009. As one would expect the number of food stamp recipients surged by 7 million to 33 million in 2009 and the expense increased to $54 billion. I had no problem with this expenditure. Then Obama and his Keynesian brethren passed their $800 billion “temporary” stimulus plan. They included $45 billion extra for food-stamps. The economy has been in recovery since 2010 I’m told by Obama and his liberal supporters in the MSM. Food-stamp recipients should have leveled off and begun to fall, since the economy has been recovering.

But a funny (not ha ha) thing happened on the road to recovery. Obama and his minions used the SNAP stimulus funds to advertise and encourage millions to sign up for food-stamps. His plan was hugely successful. He was able to increase the number of people on food-stamps by 14 million since the recession ended. The cost was driven up to $76 billion. Only a highly skeptical person would suggest that this was done to solidify the Democratic voting base. And this brings us to the TRAGIC cuts that will starve millions according to Slate and the rest of the liberal media. The fact that the $5 billion reduction is just the expiration of Obama’s temporary stimulus plan is ignored by the liberal media. It is surely the work of those evil Republicans.

The interview below is quite revealing and tells me everything I need to know about the rag publishing this crap. They lead the story with declaring this as the largest cut in history for SNAP. Sounds horrifying. They wouldn’t want to clarify with some perspective. The reduction will put funding at the level of 2011, which was $42 billion higher than 2007. It is clear in the first answer from Debra, the SNAP recipient has no clue how much she gets per month and how much her cut was. She made it sound like she got a $70 cut, or 30%. If Slate had an ounce of journalistic integrity they would add this chart.

Debra is in a household of two. Her benefit got reduced by $20, not $70. So she has to cut out meat from her diet because her subsidy went down by 67 cents per day? Really? Reading the interview generates a multitude of questions in my mind and clarifies the entitlement mindset for me. Here are a few questions and observations:

  1. We hear about how little food she is able to buy for herself and her unemployed 21 year old daughter. I’d love to see a picture of these two ladies. I’m going out on a limb here and guessing these two hungry gals are both over 200 pounds.
  2. Why is Debra a single mom? Where’s the Daddy? Isn’t he responsible for his child?
  3. The story attempts to convince you they need the food-stamps to survive. Then you find out she is getting a disability check from the VA, getting an SSDI check, getting low income housing assistance, gets Meals on wheels food from her neighbor, and gets food from a food bank. Somehow she gets by on two meals per day. Me too.
  4. What exactly is her disability? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess “Depression”, or some other non-verifiable illness.
  5. We eventually get to the money quotes when the interviewer asks about her and her daughter getting jobs.

” Yes, I’ve thought about it, and my daughter is also considering it. But my food stamps, rent, VA compensation, and social security would be affected. I’d have to make a lot of money to overcome all the reductions, something like $15 to $20 an hour.”

“She wants to help and get a job, but it’s a catch-22. I’m on rent assistance, and if she gets a job, my rent goes up and my food stamp money goes down.  But she’s got an interview at Target coming up and if it works out that will be an interesting challenge.”

And there you have the entitlement mindset. Debra has no plans to leave SNAP. The entitlement checks give her no incentive to work. Both SNAP and SSDI are supposed to be temporary assistance until the recipient can go back to work. People like Debra and her daughter have been enabled by the government to not work, look for work, or ever lift themselves up out of squalor. They are being paid to become permanent parasites on society. The excuse about jobs not paying enough is bullshit. In the real world, you start at a low level job, you work hard, get raises, move up the ladder, and eventually make enough money to support yourself and pay taxes.

My son is 16 years old. He will have his driver’s license in another month. He wanted a job. He applied at Dunkin Donuts two Sundays ago. They called him in for an interview at 2:45 on the following Wednesday. They saw he was a clean cut kid, didn’t weigh 300 pounds, didn’t have face tattoos or piercings, and hired him on the spot. They gave him his first shift 1 hour later. He worked 25 hours in the next five days, while having full days of school. They only pay $7.25 per hour, plus tips. He made almost $200 in his first week of work. He will make $700 to $800 per month and he has no skills or work experience. His three best friends all have part-time jobs working 20 hours per week. Debra and her daughter somehow think this type of job is beneath them. The thought of starting out as a clerk at Dunkin Donuts, working extra hours by taking other people’s shifts, proving to your manager you deserve a raise or promotion to assistant manager, and eventually managing your own Dunkin Donuts store is inconceivable to people like Debra, with their entitlement mindset. My son is able to get a job earning $700 to $800 per month while getting straight A’s in high school and this liberal rag – Slate – does a story about the horrific impact of a $20 reduction in food-stamps on two Free Shit Army troopers. What a joke the liberal MSM has become.

Never let the facts, truth and reality get in the way of a good liberal media sob story.

Meat Is the First Thing to Go

What it’s like to have your food stamps cut.




  1. “The excuse about jobs not paying enough is bullshit. In the real world, you start at a low level job, you work hard, get raises, move up the ladder, and eventually make enough money to support yourself and pay taxes.”

    It used to be this way. Not any more. Nobody gets promoted from Target, Walmart, grocery stores, gas stations, retail, or hospitality. Hell hardly anyone gets promoted in the STEM fields – cause what has happened is that the TPTB have realized it’s better to have a team of instantly replaceable, public school indocrinated, timid, mediorce automatons, than hire good talent – cause good talent might want to be rewarded / walk.

    The ‘hard work’ thing is bullshit. That’s history. You see the bankster’s working hard? You see Obama working hard? You see our elected representatives working hard?

    The idea of moving up the ladder – move up to where? management? How many managers are needed?

    1. Wage Slave

      I can’t help it that you are bitter about your plight. You actually think it is better for Debra and her daughter to suck off the teat of the state for their entire lives?

      Don’t make your life representative of every person in this country.

      I worked at an AM/PM minimart as a teenager. I had crap jobs in my early twenties. I got a low paying accounting job out of college. I passed my CPA. Got a little more money. Became a Controller. Worked hard. Landed an Accounting Manager job. Went to school at night. Got my MBA. Became a Treasurer. Got my CCM. And I’ve continued to move up the ladder. I have a good job. I work hard. I earn a decent living.

      Don’t give me your crap about working hard being history. Your bitterness clouds your reason.

  2. i am 100% against the food stamp program. it is billed as temporary and would likely be that if the populace was moral but too large of a percentage are moochers.
    there is few things more permanent that temporary govt program.
    if a person is ok with funding it i have no problem, but then that is charity with the govt handling the money exchange. if a person is not ok with it, then it is theft at gunpoint.
    the govt can’t give anyone anything it hasn’t already stolen.
    Food Stamp program isn’t charity, it is theft.
    it is highly unlikely that people here don’t know someone down on their luck, help the people you know instead of being a tax cow whose funds are siphoned off so a soulless politician or govt drone can have his ego polished for “helping” perpetual members of the FSA with money they stole.

  3. wage slave,
    when i talk to people older than me, particularly those working in unions (public and private) they talk about working “hard”, they wrongly consider putting their time in as working hard.
    anyone i know worth a damn had shitty jobs early on, did them well, learned from them (typically they didn’t want to do that crap forever) and progressed.
    it is important and hard work can get people ahead but they also have to have talent.
    there are too many out there that think they are supernovas when in fact they are dim compact flourescent obama bulbs.

  4. The pity of the liberals knows no bounds. In fact, they have so little respect for human beings in general, that they see absolutely no point in allowing them to learn and grow from consequences of poor judgment or bad behavior. The promotion of victimhood is perceived as a more noble and logical strategy. They refuse to see, despite the evidence all around, that people rise or fall in proportion to the expectations that are placed on them. One wonders now much longer this charade can go on. Considering that the liberals continuously seek to enlarge their pitiful flock, a happy future looks less and less likely for any of us.

    Note to Wage Slave: I have to agree with Admin. Hard work and the ability to get along with people can still reap rewards. All three of my kids have recently been invited to take promotions at work.

  5. Liberals, aka progressives, are forever looking around for someones whose lives they can control. Convinced that they know best about damn near everything, Liberals want to interfere in your lives and mine… and they want the power to do it. Liberals are society’s meddling mother-in-laws.

    To get power, Liberals trot out worst case examples and try to play on people’s compassion and guilt. Unfortunately many uninformed and emotional voters – mostly women – belive the Liberals and give them the power they want. Some immediate good gets done but it’s at the long term detriment to the people and our country.

    The solution… as I’ve written before, quit voting for the Rs and Ds and anyone else who wants to increase State power at your expense, mine and that of other Americans.

  6. I thought the “S” in snap stood for supplemental. These fucks don’t give a shit how much of your money they steal. They have no remorse and the liberal press will continue to march out these fuckwits in order to bolster their bullshit arguments. I stated in an earlier comment that 2 weeks ago I was in the Brockton Market Basket here in Massachusetts. That store would not be in business without the EBT cards, and it is the single busiest supermarket I have ever seen. People with multiple carriages piled with meat and junk food, rarely any fresh fruit and vegetables. I was the only idiot paying for his groceries with his own hard earned money. Boy, what a dope.

    The current scam is to heavily advertise to the elderly, which they do on the AM radio, their demographic. They want the greedy geezers as hooked into the system as possible, because they know they vote. It is appalling, and it will not change until it collapses. I only hope to come out the other end with a modicum of freedom for me and my family.

  7. [email protected] says:

    Mebbe the author of this article (oops, I mean, this indigestible wad of codswallop) can invite Debra and her daughter to HER house for a few meals a week, since I am sure the author is such a caring and compassionate person.

    Oops, I meant to say that the author is a fascist pig that wants to use the force of government to confiscate the money from the makers to redistribute to the takers.

    There, fixed it for myself.

  8. Admin – Wage slave isn’t wrong. You speak of a different generation. We all admire these stories of working hard and progressing, but is this a reality for most these days? It’s not that we don’t want to work hard, I work hard at my shitty entry level job everyday. Jobs are drying up, this isn’t debatable. You post about the middle class disappearing and then berate this person for talking about the symptoms thereof?

    How many are lucky enough to get an entry level job at a place that will even be in existence in 20 years? How many can work hard and move up into the ranks of companies that are ceasing to exist, moving overseas, or insourcing/outsourcing their labor?

    As anecdotal as this is, from what I’ve seen over the past year and a half of looking at the job boards, the positions open are for managers with previous management experience and for technical jobs that require previous experience. It isn’t easy to move ahead. What is one to do? Work 80, 90 hours a week in hopes of possibly getting a promotion to something that barely pays anymore and requires more work? Are we just supposed to forget about having lives, marriage, having kids?

    Why would anyone be loyal to a company in America when American business culture has blatantly no loyalty to their employees? They have proven time and again that they want wage slaves and that they’ll fuck over even the longest tenured people in their firm.

    So why the fuck work hard when you get shit on from every angle? I love everything you write but your position on the Millennial generation is somewhat ambiguous. Sure there are lots of pieces of millennial shit but there are boat loads of us that wish we had the same opportunity as our parents and grandparents. When we complain we get bitch slapped. Love ya admin, but you know we’re fucked.

    Eat, drink and be merry. But mostly drink.

  9. Other things we know about her;

    She has to give up her “chicken and turkey wings”. She also developed a pamphlet for schools to let the kiddies know how to get free shit. Community Organizer!! Neeeegrow!!!

    She also does laundry now just once a month. So, not only does she get free shit, she stinks like shit.

    No mention of toilet paper, or feminine hygiene products, so I pity the poor fucker who goes muff diving.

    She says she “thought about it” when asked about CONSIDERING re-entering the workforce. She may be a smelly skank ho’, but she’s a funny one. Reminds me of Maynard G Krebs (Dobie Gillis) who said whenever he felt like working he would lay down until the feeling went away. And since this freeloading ho can’t get to the Soup Kitchen until 9:30, I’m thinking they’re related.

  10. ” I happen to believe the food stamp program is a necessary safety net program and I’m OK with my tax dollars going to fund it.” Admin.

    I also agree that some people really need SNAP, but (there’s always a big butt) politicians love to use empathy as a way to keep a program working.

    We are either for the poor or against the poor, that’s the presented argument. But the reality is we never look at the corruption, and banks (JPM) making millions off of these programs and the poor are used as pawns, as Admin has also pointed out.

    pelosi was on the news again today, claiming once again that every dollar spent on SNAP, returns $1.79 to the economy.

    Math is definitely hard for liberals, if a food stamp dollar returns $1.79, then why doesn’t my dollar? Is a SNAP dollar worth more? Is there something special? A SNAP dollar is a borrowed dollar, I create wealth in my business, so my dollar should be worth more as the taxpayer doesn’t have to pay the lender back. If there is a Keynesian on the blog, please help me, I feel so stupid.

  11. Out here in the non-urban, non-corporate real world, hard work is what defines us. It’s not about working your way “up the ladder”, nor is it about advancing into a management position. It is who we are. If your neighbor is having trouble, you work your ass off to help them. If your community needs help, you work your ass off to help them. No matter what the situation, work like it will be your last chance to get something done.

    It’s not about posturing, it’s about gratitude. The best advice I could give people like Debra would be to just start working, even if it’s volunteering at the local shelter or whatever. The change in mindset that comes with productivity and accomplishment is its own reward. Once those people realize that they are still real humans with talent they have never used, they can then become something other than parasites. Go ahead and try it FSA soldiers (a rhetorical challenge, I realize, since none of them are likely to ever see it here). You’ll be amazed at how good you feel after working hard to help someone else, even if at first you think there’s nothing in it for you.

    Hell, most folks where I come from would rather work digging ditches for nothing but food than take a handout from the government, particularly since the handouts are all borrowed money. Work is what we’ve forgotten with all the focus on easy living and getting something for nothing. There is no such thing as a free ride. It’s all an illusion. Time to get to work before it’s too late. Work like your life depends on it, because it

  12. Food stamp program needs to go back to the way it was in the 30’s. Beans, rice, maybe some meat, cheese & milk, all packaged for you to pick up once a week with your stamp at the supermarket. No lobster, doritos, mountain dew, and whatever booze & smokes you can deal for at the local bodega.

  13. My favorite line after being asked if her daughter still lives at home:

    “Yes. She can’t apply for her own benefits until she is 22.”

    WTF.WTF.WTF. Great mom, we have our own in house training for the Future Fukwit Parasites of America. I am sure glad that the FSA has someone practicing in the minor leagues so they can move up and bolster the team at the age of 22. I am sure mom is psyched that her daughter wants to reach for the stars and become another leach on society like mom. I can hear it now, ” I know its hard dear, but if you fill out all the paperwork while you are young you can be set for life.”

    Fuckity fuck fuck fuck


  14. Forward Idiocracy

    So sorry. I’m not buying it.

    Life always sucks. I was 17 years old in 1980 during the worst fucking economy ever. Interest rates were 20%. Unemployment was 11%. Inflation was out of control. I worked two shit jobs in my freshman year in college.

    I was fucked over by the corporation that I gave 14 years of my life to. I was unemployed for three months. I got another job at higher pay than the one I left. I hated it. I found a job where I felt I was valued and think I’m doing some good.

    There are 143 million people employed. Getting educated, working hard, and giving your best effort makes your chances of success much higher. They don’t guarantee anything.

    Life will always be hard. That is no excuse for not trying. Feeling sorry for yourself or being a parasite of the state reduces you to an animal.

  15. Forward I
    Young people for the most part are not motivated to work hard. I am 51 years old lift heavy weights on a regular basis and can work circles around “men” half my age.
    As far as getting a job I can go to any city in this country and get a job, how you might ask, pick a privately owned company find the owner look him in the eye, introduce yourself and shake his hand with a firm grip. Tell him I would like the opportunity to show you a work ethic from days gone by. I will work two weeks without pay and at the end of those two weeks if you are not throughly impressed run my ass off. Be the first one there and the last one to leave, keep your head down, mouth shut, and bust your ass. Within a very short time the man would rather loose an eye as to have you quit.

    I don’t ever worry about not having a job related to the fact there’s just no competition out there for a man that knows how to make his boss money.

    It’s not about you, it’s about the man with the checkbook.

  16. “pelosi was on the news again today, claiming once again that every dollar spent on SNAP, returns $1.79 to the economy.”

    That has to be the stupidest shit I’ve heard this week. I’m glad I didn’t actually hear/see her say that shit, I would have thrown up. Or perhaps we’re wrong. I’m sure Krugman has an equation to show how that works.

  17. Where to start?

    On VA disability and SSDI? A tramp for a daughter who’s bidding her time until she can sign up for disability? They’re getting food stamps AND still leeching off of “meals on wheels” and food banks?

    They don’t want to work, it might cut into their free shit. Un-be-fuckingleivable. Obama and the socialist liberal progressives have created a monster of biblical proportions. This monster is going to be let off the leash when the free shit runs out.

    I don’t think the 100 million on welfare, the 47 million on food stamps, or the 12 million on disability will go after the politicians to get their food, money and everything else when the government cuts them off, they’ll be coming after people that work for a living, and they’ll do whatever it takes so they don’t have to work for anything, ie, murder, looting, raping, anarchy. It happened at Wal Mart when SNAP was down for one day.

    50% of the people that live around here are on food stamps (per the USDA website), and 90% are obese, they buy cokes, doritos, and crap at the store with their SNAP cards without fail. It would take 6-9 months for them to get to normal weight, let alone starve. Many are so fat they can barely walk, but buy and eat as much crap as they can get their hands on for free The health consequences are mind boggling.

    Fuck Slate and fuck the liberals. Hopefully they aren’t armed or prepared, since they rely on Obama and the government for everything. They’re going to get what’s coming to them very soon.

  18. @Admin: “I can’t help it that you are bitter about your plight. You actually think it is better for Debra and her daughter to suck off the teat of the state for their entire lives?

    Don’t make your life representative of every person in this country.”

    Bitter isn’t the word. It’s betrayed, and many, many other folks in the good ole US of A have been betrayed by ‘the’ government and the cartel corporations.

    I didn’t work hard just because I wanted to ‘get ahead’. I wanted freedom, independence, use my skills, creat things, etc. What I have found from my life experience is that ideal has become a very, very, fine thread.

    Obviously people will rise in careers, get lucky in business. However IMO that is becoming less and less. Look at the Workforce Participation rate – worst in 35 years. Look at the new jobs – most are in hospiltality and retail. I think it was something like 24,000 jobs a month for college grads – and we graduate many more than that a month.

    Compared to some of my friends, I’m really lucky to have a job for 1/2 my previous pay. I’ve gone from specifying / producing software to fixing junk MRP systems. 42 years of experience – and I’ve got a job that I could have done when I was 25. This is how the current system uses talent.

    Remember how they say “we can’t get enough qualified people” – well it’s all BS. Everything in the US is now about control – from the government to the corporation. If you are a wage slave, remember that your job can be outsourced at any time, you division can be sold, the production moved to China. You see jobs are now structured so no one is valuable. When no one is valuable and instantly replaceable there’s no need to promote anyone – your a cog – typing into a screen.

    All you have to do is go to Target Corporate or Best Buy Corporate. A cube farm of 20 somethings, mostly unaware. When you speak to them, you get a feeling we will lose the country

    As for the FSA / SNAP: we created this mess starting with LBJ and the Great Society. Once these people have been formed (by the age of 5) it’s mostly too late. Just logically, how are these unedumacated folks going to get a job in the current enviornment with real unemployment around 16%?? They are doomed to SNAP and Section 8, and we are doomed to pay for it.

  19. Wonder which side of this fence I will stand on. Gee, I wonder.

    Forward Idiocracy, Wage Slave – not only do my own experiences contradict what you say, but I echo Admin’s observations. I look at my kids – hard-working, clean -cut young adults – and wherever they turn, opportunity is knocking. Employers wet themselves with glee when they turn up for job interviews. My daughter is having sports scholarships thrown at her left, right, and center. Not just because she is a top athlete, but because she is a responsible, well-presented person with good academic skills and work ethic.

    Not many young folks like that coming out of SNAP families anymore. The culture of work is dead, but those that have it are still in the driver’s seat.

  20. just a question maybe someone can answer as i am not American. Do they reject anyone who applies? do you have to verify your income (or lack thereof?)?

  21. Also, the crap about Walmart and such not promoting is crap. A friend of my son is finishing school part time because his Walmart type job lead him to store manager by the time he was 21. Sma rt, clean cut, hard-working = promoted. Go figure.

  22. Wage Slave – you worked for 42 years in tech during a tech boom of monumental proportions yet you are not well – off enough to retire. Seriously?

    Umm, you fucked up somewhere big-time. No one but you to blame. You lubed that goat and fucked it all by your lonesome.

  23. [email protected] says:

    Guys, this crap can only go on as long as 1) we pay our taxes, and 2) the printing presses are going at full steam.

    We can’t do anything about #2, but you can do something about #1.

    Go to your employer RIGHT NOW and change your with holding to about 8 dependents because I just know you are going to have LARGE charitable contributions to report on your Schedule A that lowers your AGI.

    Why the fuck are you paying so much in taxes and then waiting on these douchebags to give you a fucking refund?????

    Hold on to that money, don’t spend it, and when April 15, 2014 comes around I am just SURE you will pay, nod nod wink wink.

    I don’t know any other way other than a cement truck full of explosives on the steps of the Capitol to get the attention of these mother fuckers.

    Denninger is “going dark” that entire Black Friday weekend and I am going to join him.

  24. Hope – undisciplined folks use tax refunds as a type of savings plan. It makes sense in a sort of weird way. Given two thirds of folks cannot delay gratification, I understand why they do it – it is the only savings they will ever have.

  25. I got to keep my job this year
    but I had to take a $5 an hour pay cut to do it
    I’m right back where I started 10 years ago
    good thing food,electricity,water,gas and taxes haven’t went up
    (sarcasm off now)

  26. Llpoh,
    I’m in construction so I get very few college educated applicants.

    My son on the other hand, different story, kids with worthless degrees and plenty of debt is all he deals with.
    Work ethic, how do you explain work ethic to a twenty-somthing that has never held a job, but they have a degree and a mind set that their employer owes them a living, just because.
    These younger workers can’t fathom that they must produce more than it costs the company to employ them. My son is 29 but he grew up watching his parents, like your children he understands and he is successful. The youth of today? I just don’t know and I just don’t really care anymore, it is what it is.
    Walmart, Target, a grocery store or a gas station is not a career choice, it’s the ladder you use to gain experience and work ethic. People today get a job at McDonald’s and expect that job to pay the bills and then bitch because it’s a minimum wage job? Fuck it. Stupid is as stupid does.

  27. Yeah, I really have no sympathy for this woman and her daughter. While I was 18 years old, fresh out of high school my Mom broker her leg and couldn’t work. There were no benefits for either of us to qualify for at the time. So I worked two full time jobs at the age of 18 and kept our heads above water without government assistance. And this was in Michigan in 2004. One of the highest ranking welfare states.

    To this day I get no government assistance. I wouldn’t want to either. When this system comes crashing down there are plenty of people who will not be able to fend for themselves. I do not want to be one of them. I would rather live in horrible poverty than in complete dependence.

    Also, Anybody else know that you can buy seeds with food stamps? I am not kidding. If you have no job, nothing else to do with your time, and you are on food stamps. Buy some damn seeds and get to hoeing. (Pun may or may not apply)

  28. Card – I do not think I have ever disagreed with a thing you have said. Not starting now.

    Today, college students study around 10 hours per week. No joke – recent studies confirm it. They get As. Thirty years ago the average was around 25 to 30 hours per week. So who is likely to be best educated?

    The change seems to be that students decided they were customers, and decided they did not want to buy a 25 hour per week education. Colleges caved n – most of them anyway.

    Work ethic is generally inherited. And it can disappear if the person gets free shit. Who works when you can get the same amount for doing nothing.

    I still believe that smart, properly educated young people are going to come out ok.

  29. “I still believe that smart, properly educated young people are going to come out ok.”

    As do I, but along the way I think the government will attempt to take everything they can away from those that stay afloat.

    Have you figured out the hidey place yet?

  30. I can honestly say that I don’t know what the prospects for advancement in the workplace are for younger people. I never really picked a “career” per se. I knew I didn’t want to go to college and that I wanted to race cars for a living but I knew that was a long shot. Although I had many jobs previously, my first job out of high school was in a service station. I loved it but the pay sucked. Ths was in SC. The attitude of the owners was if you don’t like it, I’ve got 20 guys I can call that will take your place tomorrow. After that, I took any job I could get that offered more money. I still looked for advancement in every job I took and if the opportunity was not there, I moved on to something else.

    However, in retrospect, nearly all of the jobs that offered opportunities for advancement were in small businesses. With the death of small business I can well imagine that opportunities are few and far between. My father always told me to do every job I had to the best of my ability and better than the guy next to me. He said to volunteer for the shit jobs, overtime etc. In short, my goal as an employee was to make my bosses job easy and to make him look good. At the same time though, there had to be some reciprocation and if it was not there then I was to look for a better job and move on without burning bridges.

    I now work for a multinational company but I started there when it was just a small business. The differences in management are unbelievable. I doubt very much that chances for advancement for most people where I work exist anymore. Personally, I’m the lowest guy on the totem pole in my department but I’m learning a job that will take years to become proficient at and world wide, there are less than 10 people doing what I’m being trained to do in a growing niche sector. I believe that I’ll likely get two more promotions before the curtain falls on our faux, anomalous “economy”. If it were still a small business I’d expect to double my salary over the next decade even in this economy. As part of a multinational company, I only expect to increase my salary by less than $20k, if that. There is still a very slim chance that I could become rich at this job if I learn enough, fast enough.

    The death of small business could very well mean that wage slave is correct. I hate to admit that but in these giant corporations you are essentially nameless and faceless. The fact that Walmart employees are being asked to donate food to other Walmart employees does not surprise me one bit.

  31. Admin I agree BUT working hard alone today is not enough when your competition is allowed to lie and cheat without penalty. Sometimes I feel like I am running to stand still (U2). Honest hard work does not seem to work anymore because everyone is cheating.

  32. I wonder how the 20 somethings who grew up during the Great Depression and then got to storm the beaches of Normandy or fight the japs hand to hand on Guadalcanal felt about their lot in life?

    Maybe some of the readers of TBP who were in their 20s in the late 60s can tell us how they felt about their lot in life when they were drafted into Vietnam where 50,000 of them were slaughtered and hundreds of thousands came back physically and mentally damaged.

    I wonder how those 20 somethings felt when Longstreet reluctantly gave the order for Pickett to make his doomed charge at Gettysburg. 600,000 mostly 20 somethings died in the space of 4 years.

    Millenials have been dealt a shitty hand. Is it the shittiest hand in history? I don’t think so.

  33. “Millenials have been dealt a shitty hand. Is it the shittiest hand in history? I don’t think so.”

    That is a surprising statement coming from you. The fourth turning party just got started. We still don’t know yet to the extent of what the Millennials have been dealt.

  34. My nephew grew up with all kinds of learning disabilities. He wasn’t college material. He would lose jobs because of his issues. When he was 23 he got a job at a local Walgreens as a clerk. He worked hard and eventually was promoted to assistant manager. He continued to work hard. He eventually became store manager. He did well as a store manager, so they moved him to a bigger higher volume store in King of Prussia. He worked hard and did well. Last week he was promoted to a regional manager position.

    He is 30 years old, without a college degree. He owns a modest house and is married with two kids. His third child died at birth three years ago. His life has been filled with challenges and obstacles. He has overcome them through hard work.

    Whining and wailing will not change your lot in life.

  35. Calamity

    The whiners are whining before the best part of the Fourth Turning even gets going. If they think its too tough now, how will they react to real challenges?

  36. What is one to do? Work 80 or 90 hours a week?

    For most of my 20s I worked 6 days per week and I was not paid hourly. Tax season at an accounting firm meant four months of 6 or 7 days of work and 10 to 12 hours per day.

    I worked 6 days a week for IKEA for a few years because there was so much to be done.

    So yeah. You work as much as needed to impress your superiors.

    I’m 50 fucking years old and I leave the house at 6:30 am and get home at 6:30 pm.

  37. It sounds like the millenials are disappointed in my stance. Too fucking bad.

    I believe in personal responsibility above all else. I believe in hard work. I believe in education.

    There are always going to be evil pricks in the world. They existed 200 years ago and they exist today. There are good bosses and shitty bosses. I’ve had both.

    I have three millenial sons. They don’t get coddled. I have a very low amount of empathy for anyone. I don’t know what lies ahead for them. I’ve taught them that education is important. The main reason I put up with my commute and will do so for at least the next seven years is so I can put them through college without them incurring a dime of student loan debt.

    My oldest has picked a major in which he’ll have an opportunity to get a decent job. There are no guarantees or certainties in this world. My 28 year old niece died last week. So, all you whiners should thank God for your health and stop making excuses before your lives have even started.

    The mentality of defeatism and entitlement in this society is rampant. You fight until your dying breath. Life is hard. Deal with it.

    If you are looking for sympathy on TBP, you’ve come to the wrong place.

  38. [email protected] says:

    @Admin: I leave my house at 5:45 am and get back at 7 pm, if I am lucky.

    I feel your pain.

    I simply cannot work any harder or any smarter or any “leaner”. So, I have decided to say fuck it, I live on 1/3 rd of my salary as it is, wear WalMart pants and still shop with coupons.

    I am withdrawing my labor, my tax money and, frankly, my sanity from “The System”.

    Let it burn.

  39. I don’t see it so much as whining as the denial slipping away. It is harder to grasp on the denial anymore. I see it everyday at work with the younger Mills I work with. It is hitting home on a grander scale. Every time I heard someone at work complain about too much work, not enough pay I am unfazed. Most people don’t even know what is about to happen. I am pretty sure the signs are in place to have a horrible holiday sales followed by millions more being dropped by their insurances. I have no idea how retailers are going to make it past the 4th quarter reports without lay off and bankruptcies.

    On a brighter note, I did notice the stock market closed above 16,000 today. Happy Days are here again.

    1. Calamity

      Avalon also works in a restaurant/bar. She has noticed a real pickup in the last few weeks. Have you seen the same?

      I wonder if people are just deciding to live it up today, for tomorrow we die. I keep thinking it might be a mood thing tied into this stock market blow-off. Is there a gathering momentum for a final party atmosphere before the next collapse?

  40. Oh yeah, Darden is ramping up its efforts big time. A whole new menu is going to roll out next week. We are getting drink specials, our bar is completely being remodeled. Over the past year alone they have changed the interior. At the beginning of the year they changed our uniforms to a more casual black top and discarded the classic white shirt w/ tie combo.

    Our business is a little bit different though. Right now our business is heavily affected by the University of Alabama Football schedule. More people tail gate instead of dine out. The SEC is a huge deal in Alabama. There have been several times I got called not to come in on the weekend depending on who they played (Texas A&M and LSU). Since they won the championship last year and are undefeated this year I expect it will be able two weeks and then everyone will dine like there is no tomorrow.

  41. HZK and Llpoh are going Galt. I’m in line, as soon as I’m financially able.

    Everyone I know is angry, mainly with the type of people in this article. They make you feel like a sucker because you go to work and pay taxes. When did it become okay to be a blood-sucking leech, having other people pay for everything. It doesn’t bother them in the least. The suckers that still work and try to get ahead are being bled dry by taxes and everything else, the price of which keeps going up.

    The work ethic only goes so far in a society where 1/2 the population is getting money from the government. And I place the blame directly at the feet of the Federal Reserve, without which the criminals in Washington would not be able to fund the FSA, 30 million union government drones (soft welfare), the wars, and all the other shit. 47% of people don’t even pay taxes.

    Well, the productive people, as we have seen on this post, are going Galt. And the rest will sooner or later. Like in Rome, the productive people leave, and what remains are parasites that no longer have anybody to suck off of. The rift between liberals and conservatives gets bigger and bigger, and liberals are a majority. They’ll keep spending other people’s money until it collapses. Same old story.

    This is what happens when you discard morals, ethics, and values. Anything goes, and nothing matters, just don’t force people to work and earn a living. They’re entitled to that for free.

  42. Real simple. The greatest generation blew up half the world in the process of saving it. So, there was a huge global market for stuff, and a shortage of working males. Oh, and Texas had a load of oil.

    Good times for that generation.

    Hit a road bump in the 70-80’s. Texas peaked, ME crisis, too much into swords and great society.

    Late 80’s – 00’s : full benefit of the petrodollar and reserve currency kicks in propping up deficit spending and printing. Gradually, most of the benefit shift to the rich.

    Now, cracks on every front, and global peak oil.

    So yes, the youngest generations are screwed to a much greater degree than about any since the civil war. Not sure how you can believe in this 4th turning stuff and call every generation the same with the same opportunities. It just isn’t so.

    This is not incompatible with the notion that SNAP is wrong.

  43. My obligation to my employer is 40 hrs/week. I am 56 and I don’t give a fuck about impressing anyone anymore. I will give more, but I take the approach of a cat. If there is nothing happening, I am content to do nothing (work related). If a mouse or a squirrel come my way, then that’s another matter completely. Put differently, I work for a private firm and I do what I need to do when it needs to be done without regard to how much time or effort it takes, but I will not do anything if there is nothing that needs to be done merely to appear busy. If I were into that shit I would have worked for the govt or a non-profit.

    My commute to my office takes about 20-25 minutes. That is my choice. Should at some point I choose to make it longer, I will not bitch about it, nor do I have any sympathy for anyone who chooses to waste time merely getting to work by living far from it.

  44. MethodMan

    Your grasp of history is breathtaking to behold.

    The greatest generation obeyed the orders and were slaughtered during WWII. Your comment is a joke. It was FDR and the Missionary generation that waged the war.

    It goes to show that a little knowledge is dangerous.

    You don’t have a fucking clue about the Fourth Turning “stuff” and show your ignorance by your assanine comments.

    Every generation faces their own challenges. Some have a heavier load to carry than others. If the younger generations are already complaining about their terrible lot in life, then we are in deep trouble as a country. These are the people who will have to step up and do the major work in this Fourth Turning. I don’t see too many stepping up so far.

    Snowden, Manning and few others.

    Your comment was real simple. I agree.

  45. The increase in SNAP benefits was a temporary measure, quite similar to the Payroll Tax Holiday which ended last January.

    There wasn’t many, if any, media articles of a “tax increase” on the people who work.

    It’s a struggle for many non-foodie people to eat too. They do what they have to do to eat: work harder, work longer, grow a garden, learn to preserve food, cook from scratch, and whatever else they need to do to survive.

  46. Good comments but as much as these clients make poor choices and society wipes their asses then nothing changes. I am surprised that the 22yo didn’t have a slew of kids already. I feel you folks as no government program can correct a bad home life and a poor example to live. It’s a Goddamn genetic mutation that turns folk in lazy useless fucks who have to depend on the Man for their bread and circuses. Malcolm X would be pissed at the Black folk like the above mentioned in the story. No wonder they let so many Mexicans in to do work. Now remember that the big food and money mafia make out on Snap and all these other programs. They are simply the ghetto chickens eating the corn from horse shit. Remember this question: Who is feeding the horses?
    I also agree that if SNAP is to be cut then the type of item available to purchase should be drastically reduced to staples only. No using a snap card at the corner beverage for Coke and hot pockets. Also note that with other sources of help they won’t starve. I think or believe that maybe they try to learn to farm their own lands near by. Swinging a hoe might burn calories.

  47. @Llpoh “Wage Slave – you worked for 42 years in tech during a tech boom of monumental proportions yet you are not well – off enough to retire. Seriously?
    Umm, you fucked up somewhere big-time. No one but you to blame.”

    You appear to be an asshole, mostly like the rest of the US population that has turned against their fellow citizens. What you know about the comp sci business would probably fit through the head of a needle.

    My children’s college educations are all paid for, my late model cars are paid for, my stone home on a lake is mostly paid for, and for years I paid for family health insurance – over $1,500 a month, and all sorts of related expenses. It costs a lot of money to be in business, you have a lot out there. When you get ‘get your legs cut off from under you’ – you bleed. That has happened / is happening to a lot of +50 year old STEM people – who were depending upon another 10-15 years of good employment / income.

    I was unemployed for over 3 years. In that time I used 401k / investments to pay the mortgage, living expenses, health insurance, etc. Could you go without income for over 3 years? To add insult to injury, I had to pay income tax on the 401k disbursements.

    @IndenturedServant: “I hate to admit that but in these giant corporations you are essentially nameless and faceless.”

    I’m trying raise awareness that human capital (employees) has been reduced to the lowest terms by the corporate culture. They’ve worked at it. My prediction: With a little more educated workforce in China / India, and reliable software systems in the ‘cloud’ – corps will outsource the cube farm people (office workers) to foreign lands. All that will be left in the US are the execs, some sales people, and a distribution chain.

    Another perverse thing has happened: The wage slaves are really against each other. I think it may be something like the Stockholm syndrome where the kidnapped person identifies with the kidnapper – like Patty Hearst.

    @Llpoh: Also, the crap about Walmart and such not promoting is crap. A friend of my son is finishing school part time because his Walmart type job lead him to store manager by the time he was 21.

    Being a manager at Walmart. Isn’t that sorta like being promoted to Guard at Auschwitz? Really, the Walton family is worth billions while they can’t pay their employees a living wage? Pollute our country with worthless Chinese shit. Then we have to pick up the tab for their employees Medicaid and other sundry expenses.

    These corps are real happy to see these young people: They can work them to death, and then dispose of them.

  48. Admin, your Gen X nihilism is showing…

    Have to agree with you & Boston Bob. This program was intended to help people out of a rough patch, not feed them and encourage them not to work. I hear it from SNAP participants all the time… they can’t work more hours because they’ll lose benefits. And you help them out with canned goods, even a casserole here and there and they eat the whole damn lot in a day, then cry about how hungry they are the next.

    That said, I’ve spent a lot of time recently studying the SNAP program for a client. The fraud and abuse is only about 15% of all recipients; it just makes the news more. Still, it’s more than it should be, and it takes away from the truly needy — the working families who have lost their homes to the banking criminals, the people working 2-3 part-time jobs because Obamacare has forced employers to reduce hours, the people who have real disabilities and have trouble finding good-paying jobs because they’ve all been outsourced to cheap labor countries.

    The U.S. is a fucking mess. We’re transitioning to the European model that the fucking liberals think is a “kinder, gentler” society when in fact it represents a loss of our Middle Class and a return to a system where you have only the very rich and the poor. It’s going to take a vicious bloodbath to return the U.S. to a political system and society where hard work and responsibility are valued and pay off for people who embrace that lifestyle.

    1. Thinker

      I’m not sure what nihilism really means. I try to deal with the reality of the situation. The Crisis will get far worse. The millenials are tasked with doing the heavy lifting. If they are not up to the challenge, the country is finished. Giving up before it really starts is a pussy way out. Whining about having to do the heavy lifting before they lift a thing irritates the shit out of me. They should be rallying around the example of Snowden, but I hear the sound of crickets. Or is that the tap tap on their iGadgets?

      My post was not about SNAP fraud, even though 15% fraud equals $11 billion. When did it become OK to not worry about $11 billion of fraud?

      The interview is representative of at least 50% of those on SNAP and the other government entitlement programs. The liberals have created an underclass of people who have no incentive to even try and get a job or improve their lot in life. And they have done it on the backs of the working class.

      I don’t understand the ideologues who can’t see both sides of the problem. They focus on the Wall Street scum or the Federal Reserve and give a pass to the fraud and sloth of the ignorant entitlement class. Open a fucking book. Learn something. Get a fucking job at Dunkin Donuts. I’m tired of all the excuses and whining.

      Life is hard and then you die. Tough shit. Do something about your lot in life.

  49. biggyTmofo says:

    “It’s a Goddamn genetic mutation that turns folk in lazy useless fucks who have to depend on the Man for their bread…”

    los vivos viven de los mensos (the shrewd live off the simple) dept:

    my granny said, no hay quien compre mientras hay quien preste (no one is willing to buy as long as there’s someone willing to lend).

    when my mom said my dad stated, “only fools save money”, my granny shot back, that’s because as soon as you have a bit of money saved, someone come along and borrows it.

  50. Wage Slave if after 42 years of the biggest boom industry in history, I would slit my fucking wrists if I did not have enough to retire. Boohoo for your failure to plan and save. You were likely a marginal techie. Cry me a fucking river.

    I may be an asshole. But I am fucking right. Do not like the truth? Too fucking bad. Btw – after 42 years of work, everyone should have accumulated enough to retire. Perhaps not going forward – the world is different. But someone starting work in 1970 has no excuse. None whatsoever. Gimme gimme gimme, and fuck tomorrow – well tomorrow is here. Bad planning your part does not mean a crisis on mine.

    Just one more poor crybaby unwilling to acknowledge they crapped in their nest. Always someone else’s fault.

    Btw, too, running a Walmart is not the worst job. The store manager does ok, esp. For 21 years old.

  51. AWD sez: “HZK and Llpoh are going Galt. I’m in line, as soon as I’m financially able.”

    Count me on that list as well. I have zero income and have had zero income since last April. I do NOT participate in SNAP or unemployment or SSDI or anything. Nobody sends me checks of other people’s money. I am in college full time without a cent of student loans – in fact I paid off my student loans from my first college attempt of the late 90’s before starting this time. I am using the Pell Grant money since I’ve paid plenty ‘o taxes in the past (that I’d really rather have back, given what all manners of bullshit it was spent on) and will never see any SS money that has been taken from me either. Due to it being a small community college, tuition and books are relatively reasonable. I will graduate with no debts.

    The campus has a single orange tree growing on it and I snagged one off the branch this morning. Not quite ripe yet but still tasty and verified non-GMO/non-corporate food. From this one orange I harvested around 30 seeds, which are right now being germinated and will be planted as soon as they’re ready. It’ll be 6-10 years before I see a single fruit, but that’s the nature of a savings account. My yard will only hold maybe four trees, so if I have more sprouts than that, I’m going to take a few ‘nature hikes’ out to the bushes around here and plant them in random locations that I can go back to later if needed. Also, a savings account. And not one single fucking penny of taxes paid on any of it. Barter, grey market, free contracts between individuals – fuck the system. I like this life much better.

  52. Ahh yes… Llpoh wisdom being cast down from the Mountain so that we poor, lowly, feebleminded peasants may receive it with breathess gratitude… as usual. (/sarc, llpoh. Don’t have a stroke.)

    Interesting little discourse here on this thread. We have the contingent of old fucks on both sides of the issue, a few disgruntled Mil’s, and a handful of ambivalent X’ers caught in the middle, age-wise. And the Alleged 1st Year X’er/Boomer-in-Denial, Admin.

    Seems to me the problem with SNAP is primarily that the recipients can buy just about anything with it, just about anywhere. The issue of fraud wouldn’t be nearly as pronounced if, as a previous poster wrote, the food one gets with food stamps is the basic staples to prevent starvation and malnutrition. Cheez Doodles and FuckyFuck Bars are not staples. Steak is not a staple. Anything sold or distributed by CocaCola or Pepsi is not a staple. I would offer the theory that craigslist sales of SNAP cards would plummet if all you could get was a bag of dried beans or rice, box of powdered milk and generic cereals like plain ol’ fucking Cheerios, some plain canned veggies, and a couple pounds of ground beef. And in order to collect this magnificent feast on the taxpayer’s dime, you get to show photo ID that matches the cardholder. How heartless of me to think such evil conservative thoughts, I know.

    Now I’ll prepare for llpoh’s nuclear response. I just need to go make up a new tinfoil hat real quick. Onward to glory!

  53. E – I am not here to coddle folks. I say generally what Admin and others are saying, perhaps with a smidgen less tact. I do not sugar coat reality.

    Professional folks who work decades and end up without enough to retire do not get my respect.

    Wage Slave pulls out the same tired old argument I made a small fortune out of refuting: “But you do not understand computer science, white goods manufacturing, etc etc etc fill in the blank”. I have heard it a 1000 times, and in the end, each and every time it was me who did in fact understand, and the other guy that did not. The argument that somehow theirjob is special, more difficult, etc. was proven false. They use those thoughts as crutches and excuses for their own failings.

    Computer science is like any other endeavor – to succeed you need to expertly apply resources and manpower. The idea that someone does not succeed because their field is too hard or is special somehow is laughable.

    “I do not have the money to retire after 42 years because my job is so hard and impossible to do and I had to pay health insurance and raise a family”.

    What a fucking joke.

  54. I’m just trying to fulfill my appointed role as that asshole that pokes you with a stick whenever this debate comes up. I may have been somewhat remiss in this austere duty since Calamity and Wage Slave were doing such a fine job of raising your blood pressure from thousands of miles away.

    On a more cordial note, please look up the Mossberg MVP Varmint rifle. I think you’ll be interested to see what it can do. I picked one up a couple months ago and have been very happy with it.

  55. Administrator says:


    Your grasp of history is breathtaking to behold.


    Why thank you!

    My point is that average standard of living for those in the US after WW2 has generally increased. Want to argue this point across just about any reasonable metric? How about the most important one, how long you get live:

    Not arguing millions died around the world and lots of Americans too. Something tells me most Americans are “over” the tragedy of WW2 and don’t break down and cry when they pay $3 gas and eat a $3 burger. Bought and paid for, as they say.

    Now we are going to see, for the first time since perhaps the Civil War, a reversal of our standard of living on all fronts. Who gets the brunt of that, yes, the younger generation. And if revolution and bloodshed are ahead, which you seem to imply, then it’s even worse for them.

    So, do not tell me the Millennials and below just have the run of the mill everyday sort generational problems. They don’t.

  56. It is undeniable with globalism and competition for resources, that jobs will be harder to find and pay less. The “average Joes” of 1945 through 2005 had it generally better and better, because of the expansion of the petrodollar empire.

    Now the trend is undeniably reversing. You can say “just work harder I walked through a mile a snow…” and point out the selective bias of anecdotal evidence of how hard work pays off– but this is now more a thermodynamics problem than a morality play.

    There will be less and less per capita energy available to do things. For instance, in 10 years a cross country flight will be an average months’ salary, then two, then a year, then only for the rich. But that loss of available energy ripples through everything: food, medicine, quality of life, etc. This is a best case; if the US loses it reserve currency status along the way, energy become even more expensive. Are we to then say to them then, well, you guys just didn’t work hard enough like we did?

    No, there physical forces also at work beyond their control. There are also structural ones as well working against them, including the fact that we are burning and printing desperately to prop up our standard of living at their eventual expense, and outsourced most industries to benefit the rich for a short-term gain of consumerism.

    It is a bit more now than “just better yourself, I did!”
    It is going to be brutal for most of the young today.

  57. E – I took no offence whatsoever! You are a man I respect, despite our little escapades of the past. I need the occasional reminder that I am less than perfect. I tend to forget that at times. Not that any folk hereabouts would notice, of course.

  58. Methodman

    The millenials do not get to complain about what might happen to them before it happens. We’re in the Fourth Turning. They have to step up and lead the country through the Crisis.

    Do you think Debra, her daughter, and millions of other entitled masses are about to step up?

    If they don’t step up, the country is finished.

    So enough of the whining and start acting like Snowden and Manning.

  59. Capital – with encouragement and support from government and corrupt unions – threw Labor under a bus.

    That is one way to deal with the age old conflict.

  60. We, as a Nation, are NOT allowed peace and prosperity.

    Fifty years ago the Military Industrial Complex made that decision for us and since then we have not had a politician, much less a President, that had any real power to lead this country towards peace.

    Argue all you want about some damn fool on food stamps but please realize that the amount of money devoted to the FSA pales in comparison to the wealth that has been harvested from this Nation to enrich the MIC.

    War is all we are allowed to know – Peace doesn’t generate enough profit.

  61. The US military is the biggest FSA on the planet and the administration of said army is by far the most corrupt in the history of all war machines.I no longer giver EBT a second thought. The jobs were sent away and people still have to eat, but no one is forced to kill on command for their bread and butter.

    $8.5 TRILLION In Taxpayer Money Doled Out By Congress To The Pentagon Since 1996 … Has NEVER Been Accounted For”
    Posted on November 18, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
    Military Waste and Fraud Are the Main Cause of Our Problems

  62. During a discussion with a young white male last week on welfare, he disclosed that his unwed mother still had three kids at home that she couldn’t possibly feed without EBTand if cuts she and her kids would most likely starve on the street….a sad situation indeed.

    What is the solution to the delimma of unwed mothers spitting out babies with reckless abandon?

    I’ll admit I haven’t a clue.

  63. “Giving up before it really starts is a pussy way out. Whining about having to do the heavy lifting before they lift a thing irritates the shit out of me. They should be rallying around the example of Snowden, but I hear the sound of crickets.”

    Careful what you wish for Admin. There seems to be a romanticism around the Hero generation. That is based off of past examples of Heroes like the G.I. Generation. The Millennials are not going to live up to that romanticism at all. There is a seething anger within my generation. You can take it as whining as “life is not fair” but ignoring the actual anger behind the folly could prove to be a mistake.

    I don’t see Millennials living up to the G.I Generation of building infrastructure and fighting a foreign war. I wrote “The Bitch of Belsen” for a reason. I see Millennials going the extreme route that young people went in Nazi Germany. It is aligning perfectly as we speak. From the Nazi Era we have all of these accounts from those in government. However the less told story is of their Hero Generation doing the heavy lifting. Most of the guards in the concentration camps were really young. The youth of that country had no problem doing the heavy lifting of destroying Europe.

    People are complaining left and right about having their rights violated. It has been happening to my age group a lot, lot longer. I remember having my online activities spied on at my school and later college. I remember metal detectors being installed in high schools and middle schools in the late 90s. I remember people going to jail for downloading music off of Kazaa and Napster. I remember locker and persons searches in high school for pot. I remember cars being searched in the parking lot of schools for pot. Parents never got into an uproar over illegal searches of their kids. In the late 90’s early 2000s there was a huge surge of don’t trust your teenagers going around.

    Post 9/11 I saw too many of my age group go to war. Most of them hated Bush and Cheney for keeping us in a lose/lose situation. Yet Boomers and Seniors in huge numbers reelected Bush in 2004 (To be fair, Kerry would have been a shit choice as well). Hell, 12 years after 9/11 we are still over there. A new surge of violence in Iraq has been going on for the past year. Afghanistan now has a larger Opium trade than ever. Nothing good came of invading. Now Saddam and Bin Laden are dead, but nothing has changed.

    When it comes to my comparison of Nazi Germany, we are closer to home than you may be considering. During that same Era WW1 vets were constantly shit upon. They got brought into a war that had nothing to do with them because of their elders. Once they got back they experienced first Hyperinflation in 1922-1923 followed by a great depression in 1931 which lead to the rise of Hitler. During the same time there was plenty of blame to go around for their defeats and economic woes. When the night of broken glass happened nobody batted an eye. When the Enabling Act happened there was no fury. When Jew were “relocated” nobody felt pity. There were so many conspiracy theories about who to blame, that by the time Hitler took power many had the mindset of “Not my problem, better them than me”

    Now we have the 9/11 vets that went to an war that they didn’t need to fight. Economic woes are being placed on use because of Too Big To Fail backs. We are locked into 1 Trillion dollars worth of student loan debt that would have gone down with the banks that over leveraged themselves. Ar tax dollars bought GM, propped it up to where we couldn’t even buy any of those cars, the government is selling the shares at a 10 Billion dollar loss. The Democrats (off all ages, can’t only blame Obama) passed and shoved Obamacare down our throats to bailout insurance companies, seniors, and disabled people. In the process taking away from Millennials any hope of ever having any purchasing power. It is really hard to make a living and turn your situation around with only 29 hours a week.

    At this point any radical could waltz into lead the Millennial Generation and they will take it if the offer is good enough. Young people during the Nazi Era made off like bandits. I saw a documentary about some of the guards at Auschwitz (Age range 20s) talking about all the benefits they got being guards and all the money they made. If that doesn’t scare the shit out of you, I don’t know what would. I could easily see Millennials blowing up the country to benefit themselves. You have way too many young people with nothing but time on their hands, zero in their bank accounts, and a lot of blame. Add into the mix 10 years worth of veterans pumped up on testosterone and adrenaline with nothing to do, no money, and guerilla warfare training tactics. Sounds like a molotov cocktail of “Fuck you” waiting to be hurled.

    1. Calamity

      There are many more millenials tweeting and twerking than are focused like you. They are more likely to follow Justin Beeber or Kim Kardashian than a radical. Only a small minority understand the message of Ron Paul and realize who the enemy is. Can the minority succeed?

  64. Admin,

    I used nihilism in the way that it means, “the belief that a society’s political and social institutions are so bad that they should be destroyed“. Nomad generations throughout history have the attitude, “Life is hard and then you die. Tough shit.” because we have grown up with systems (political and social) that have never worked for us. And that’s not going to change.

    We agree that the SNAP program is a mess and needs to be reformed. I see it as a move by the government and major food companies to enslave the population, to make them dependent on the State. You’re right, though, that it takes willing subjects to be enslaved.

    1. Thinker

      Count me in as a full fledged Nihilist. I wish the fucking regeneracy would get going so we can burn this fucker down. I’m growing impatient and irritable in my old age.

  65. AWD,
    you are right that people are being coddled, overprotected etc but just like debt, the natural order of things will return. it is like debt, you buck the system and live large until the balance is due TSHTF. They will be the first to fall because they were so ill-prepared, and i say good-riddance.

    i stand by that quote, things are going to get worse, govt is going to run out of other peoples money and people will have to focus on helping themselves and immeditae family and won’t have the resources to be as charitable as the once were.
    when things actually start to get bad, the people who haven’t prepared their minds, bodies, families, friends and communites are going to in trouble.
    those who aren’t strong enough to live, won’t.

  66. “Only a small minority understand the message of Ron Paul and realize who the enemy is. Can the minority succeed?”

    No, it already failed. It failed in 2008 and 2012 when the GOP shamed, mocked, and excommunicated Ron Paul from the republican party. I love Ron Paul. But the only thing Millennials saw from those elections was that the establishment would not play fair. I was pissed anytime I heard old timers talk about how fucking great Mitt Romney was and how Ron Paul was a racist.

    When the GOP shut out Ron Paul supporters in the primaries. Then shut out his delegates and changed rules for the Tampa Convention I knew that was the last straw of Millennials engaging in actual politics. That is largely why so fewer turned out to vote for Obama on election day.

    Many are focusing on the twerking, texting, tweeting, knockout game, and all the other bullshit. I think the tipping point has already been reached with young people. The legislation of 29 hours a week is setting things in motion. Hard to pull yourself up by your boot straps when your boot straps are only and inch in length. That sealed that deal completely. There is not moving up, paying off debts, buying a house, buying a car on 29 hours a week (AT MAX). It is impossible to do so. I make at least 10 an hour, but I only work 20 hours a week. Young people on part time jobs are not going to support anything let alone themselves.

    I have always loved the line in XXX “Next time you send someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is.” That is what I am seeing with Millennials doing the heavy lifting. We are not attached to the current state of affairs. The current state is a future of debt and despair.

  67. calamity,

    that was a very well thought out comment with a lot of great insight. no one will know what the millenials will be under pressure until that pressure arrives and right now is still only building.

    i agree that there are a great deal of them who don’t care but when the stupid shit they do care about is gone, they very well could turn “radical” in a split second if a charismatic leader proclaims he will make things like they once were.

    the whole issue with SNAP, EBT etc will be a lightning rod I think, people see this as a “good” thing govt does but what they do to achieve this “good” is immoral. the use of coercion and violence govt proclaims it has a monopoly on will not last in its current state, ObongoCare is speeding up the collapse, battle lines are being drawn.

  68. Jim,
    Capitalism is failing. It happened in the Thirties and it’s happening again. There is a tipping point going from democratic capitalism (which requires a more equitable distribution of income and wealth than we have) to neo-feudalism, in which there is little or no social mobility. You sit in a temple of capitalism and continue to spew reactionary “libertarian” bullshit without seeing that you are on the wrong side of history. Will you come out in favor of “free markets” and privatization of our national parks next?

    1. Obi Wan

      Fuck you. Capitalism isn’t failing because we haven’t had capitalism. We have a welfare/warfare state created by liberals and neo-cons cooperating.

      As soon as I hear an asshole like you spewing equitable distribution bullshit, I know I’ve stepped in a load of shit dropped by a liberal socialist douchebag.

      I love when assholes blame libertarianism when there has never been a libertarian in control of the White House and only one served in Congress in the last 30 years.

      You idiots make me laugh.

  69. I haven’t read all the comments, so I’m sure I’m just rehashing something that has already been said. Oh well.

    My 2 cents….

    “They saw he was a clean cut kid, didn’t weigh 300 pounds, didn’t have face tattoos or piercings, and hired him on the spot.”

    This plus punctuality are generally enough to get hired on the spots these days. People will bitch that they can’t sit in the same job location and eventually work their way up the ladder. A person working a minimum wage job makes something like $13,000 a year take home.

    Thats 40 hours a week. If they have an interest in climbing ladders, either monetarily or managerially, then put in some effort and actually step up the rungs yourself. All I ever hear about is people who performed adequately bitching about never getting a raise. Well no shit you aren’t getting one, you’ve given your employer precisely zero reason to think you deserve one.

    Of course some companies treat their employees like shit, and are genuinely not worth hanging around. Well, then focus on resume building, get a cheap suit and start pounding pavement.

    @Obi-wan – This country has been built on the back of crony capitalism for a long time. The US military has a long history of propping up mega companies. This is not capitalism, its closer to fascism than anything. They let the small fry flit around to give the illusion of capitalism, but make no mistake: there is a distinct difference between state mandated corporations and those who actually work for a living.

    @Calamity – Unfortunately, I think you are correct, though I think it will be less Nazi party and more revolution than anything else.

    I hate to admit that of course, I keep hoping (my god, am I an optimist?) that something will give me a reason to believe otherwise.

  70. I have to agree with Admin. I grew up in a dirt poor family. Most of my family still lives like that. But, I took my first job at 11 for $1 / per hour – mucking stalls. I continued to work hard and always continued my education – self education and formal. I worked and paid my own way through college. After, college I had to start at the bottom again – “we don’t hire people without experience.” But, I just keep walking and improving and moving my income level up – isn’t easy. But, I figure it’s easier than living in poverty my entire life.

  71. @Calamity – Unfortunately, I think you are correct, though I think it will be less Nazi party and more revolution than anything else.

    I think it very well will be a revolution, but I don’t think it will be similar to our First American Revolution. There is still a stark contrast between 1920-1930s Germany and America now. That being the Wiemar Republic was too young. Wilhem II had only been exiled for a decade or two before the third Reich came into power. Our culture is much more steeped into a tradition of the Constitution and what the founding fathers stood for. I make the comparison of Nazi youth more akin to the young will save their own first. If death and calamity strike I doubt Millennials will focus their attention outward on a national platform. It will be internal within their own community. More of propping up themselves, their families, and anyone on the same thought process as themselves.

  72. There is no fix people. The system will collapse and survival of the fittest will rule the day, the weak will die, the strong will survive, the law of nature as it always has been. That day cannot come fast enough for me. A world with fewer parasites has to be a good thing, agree.

  73. Rich, same here, but hate to break it to ya’ , that was then , this is now. Try budgeting education, clothing , food, healthcare, housing, car/insurance, education and entertainment on min. wage now and see how you do?

    Really, I don’t know how most kids living outside their parents homes,make ends meet.

  74. @Administrator: “Fuck you. Capitalism isn’t failing because we haven’t had capitalism. We have a welfare/warfare state created by liberals and neo-cons cooperating.”

    When I read something like this that starts with ‘Fuck you” my first thought is: “My what an intellect! I need to read on to get some pearls of wisdom.”

    The real Admin of this forum should lay down some ground rules, otherwise this forum will spiral down into a cesspool of 4 letter words, and ad hominem attacks. When some people are faceless, it’s easy for them to be brave, rude, in your face. I attribute this type of behavior to people who feel they are powerless and threatened by a difference of opinion.

    If you read Obi Wan’s quote: “There is a tipping point going from democratic capitalism (which requires a more equitable distribution of income and wealth than we have) to neo-feudalism, in which there is little or no social mobility.”

    That’s pretty much where it’s gone. Something like 25% of the population earning less than $10 hour, less than 50% working a full 40 hours, many with two jobs. Look at the CEO’s who earn 100, 200, 300 times the average worker. Yes, yes, I know it’s a free country, and a corp can do what it damn well pleases – but it smacks of fudalism: you are but a peasant, I am a lord.

  75. flash is right, however our society encourages a staggering amount of stupidity that makes life so much harder for millenials.

    Stupidity on the part of parents, who neglected to save to help set their children up in a trade to get a start on life. Stupidity on the part of the parents, who didn’t bother to check and see if college was still worth it.

    Stupidity on the part of the kids, who think that life will always be as easy as high school. Stupidity on the part of the kids, who think that the world owes them something.

    The list goes on. Life is rougher now than it has been since the end of WW2, however its still miles better than pretty much any time point before that 4th turning.

  76. @Bostonbob: I think Jim Quinn is making a big mistake allowing you and your like to set the tone for his forum. I hope he understands he’s not in control of his own product.

    I bet you were the tough guy in 8th grade. However it was pretty easy since you were 23 yrs old at the time.

  77. TPC,
    What you do not account for is human nature. Even in the poorest of counties in Africa, the
    Middle East and parts of Asia, the human condition allows them to vastly over populate their countries, greatly beyond available resources. Even as their progeny starve to death they have more. Human nature is a funny thing, while controllable along certain lines, it will always do something to fuck itself up. That is not to say all humans, but there are many that cannot comprehend what it takes to make decisions that are best for their long term future. Not just the FSA here in America, but around the world in some of the most god forsaken hellholes that man has created.

  78. Millenials and Boomers are angry and cynical and apparently hopeless.

    We sit at our computer keyboards, typing furiously and spewing forth our frustration and wrath.

    Once upon a time the Boomers were in the streets creating mayhem in order to get some changes made. Now we and the Mils can’t find the energy to do anything to disrupt the status quo. If one does take action, it’s more likely to be to find a way to remove oneself from the whole stinking mess rather than make a fuss. I count myself, unfortunately, in this camp.

    As long as we are not willing to put ourselves on the line in any way, why do we sit around and mope and moan? I’m about ready to go stand on a street corner with an Impeach Obama sign. At least I’d be one small voice doing SOMETHING.

    There should be a Tahrir Square in every community by now.

    God Bess Edward Snowden.

  79. @Bostonbob – I don’t underestimate it, the population density of India alone is reason enough for me to lose all faith in humanity, let alone all the other stupid shit that goes on mostly unnoticed.

    As Calamity pointed out, I will be looking out for me and mine, if any free shitters show up to take from me I’ll have their head on a stick by the roadside.

  80. Roughly, statistically speaking, the die is cast with people clear back to when they enter high school. Thirty-three percent,33%, of kids entering their freshman year of high school will go on to graduate, advance to a 4 year university and graduate and move on with some form of career that will land them in the upper middle class and a few will be 1%’ers. Taxpayers. The middle 33% will graduate from high school, dick around with community college maybe bail out of a four year school 2 or three years into it, get some vocational training and ultimately half of this 33% will become the middle class to lower middle class or worse. The other half will flounder around trying to make a go of it, moving back and forth between couch surfing with friend and their parents basements, until they finally give up and join the FSA. The remaining 33% will fall off the tracks along the way for a million different reasons, a good percentage will not graduate from high school, dropouts, that will at some point become wards of the state and card carrying members of the FSA, others will graduate from high school but decide college is not for them and join the work force as skilled labor in construction and other such occupations, some will work hard a do well others will just get by.

    Ultimately it is just math and probability, a little more than 50% of the people entering high school can hope to be productive self sufficient people in society through a combination of hard work, intellect and desire. A little less than 50% will struggle, have to work two jobs to get by or just give up and allow the state to take care of them. They are the current 43-47% getting free shit. It wasn’t always this way but it is now and there is nothing in the future to suggest that it will get any better any time soon. In fact the statistics will continue to trend to the worse.

    What are the solutions? How does society resolve the issues and circumstances that will change the statistics and provide more chance and opportunity for our youth to succeed? There is no one answer, it is a very complex problem with lots of outside forces pulling in many directions that some how need to be focused on reversing the ongoing trend. Until something is done SNAP sob stories will abound and continue to be common place.

    Boston Bob, nice work against Wage Slave.

  81. Wage Slave says:
    The real Admin of this forum should lay down some ground rules, otherwise this forum will spiral down into a cesspool

    Wage S- We like the cesspool just they way it is.

  82. Mr. or Mrs. Wage Slave – You’re apparently somewhat new here and on normal boards, maybe new people get a pass. However, this is TBP and new people get exactly nothing more gentle than a swift and possibly drunken assreaming from the Big Dogs (or Old Yellers, in some cases). There are no rules here and haven’t been since TBP 1.0 all those years ago. Ad Hominem attacks and four letter words are our currency ’round these parts since dollars ain’t worth shit. Neither Admin or anyone else is all that worried about any “product”. State your case and present a cogent argument that is defensible and you may survive. Trot out any amalgam of corporate bullshit and you will probably not survive. It isn’t a rule or policy, it’s just reality here. The wild west isn’t for everybody. Have a nice day.

  83. Wage Slave

    I have one rule for TBP. There are no rules. I do not censor or tell people how to act. It’s called a free forum.

    It isn’t a fucking product. It’s a fucking blog. No more. No less.

    Don’t tell me how to run it. You can post anything you wish and I can respond any way I wish. People are then free to make up their minds.

    If you have a solution to present, then present it.

    I’ll then go for your jugular and reveal the weakness of your argument. If you don’t have thick skin, you’ll be scampering off this blog shortly.

  84. Jeez. I go out to lunch for the first time in weeks and the Monkeys do a smack down on wage Slave while I’m chowing down on a Philly Cheesesteak at Cavanaughs.

    Well done. You may resume the shit throwing at your leisure. We must improve our product.


  85. Wage Slave

    Go fuck yourself. This isn’t a game, dumbass.

    I’m guessing you split outta here with your tail between your legs, back to Facebook and the Yahoo tween chat rooms. Good riddance. We all have anger issues, tough shit.

    America’s anger epidemic: why?


    Some are describing this as “America’s anger epidemic.” And there are a few reasons: uncertainty in the job market and the economy, working long hours — on average about one month more now than they did in the 1970s and with less vacation.

    So if it seems like Americans are angrier these days it’s because we are.

  86. As a Milennial, I can only hold myself responsible and myself only for the inopportune status of my life.

    I have spent the last five years running from my true talents, talents that could make me hundreds of thousands, if not, millions of dollars. I have pushed my dreams away by harboring anger for society (whether it was conscious or not) because I wasn’t born into affluent wealth or opportunity. I have refused to change on a day by day basis, to change with consistency. People often dream of change, but yet, even after two or three days of trying, we resort back to our old ways and become comfortable in misery.

    That’s how I have been for my entire adult life. I could be wildly successful. And, although, not many Milennials may have the talent in creative arts like I do, there are so many opportunities out there especially in the richest country in the world. There will always be grand opportunity just around the corner in the United States, at least until our currency collapses.

    My cousin, a 23 year old graduate of San Luis Obispo, just got employed at google for 100K+ a year. Granted, his Dad is a computer whiz, and helped mentor him for a tech career. But, how did my cousin become so intelligent within his field? He read countless books, and experimented with creating apps and websites. He didn’t bog himself down with drugs, or doubt himself like I have.

    I make a fraction of what he does, but there is still hope on my end. I have so much to give, even if our nation does collapse. I will be the first one out there educating our populace as to what happened, and who is to blame. As for now, I truly believe in this mantra:

    One day, we all realize that chasing our dreams is the only way to escape a discontent life.

    So if you feel like the system’s odds are stacked against you, I beg to differ. Even if you have to work a piece of shit job for years before being capable of chasing your dream, it is all part of the journey to fulfill your heart/instinct/dreams.

  87. @Adminstrator: “I’ll then go for your jugular and reveal the weakness of your argument. If you don’t have thick skin, you’ll be scampering off this blog shortly.”

    Why would anyone care to waste their time trying to relate ideas to a lot like yours?

    All this tough guy talk – what a bunch of phonies – pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. This type of talk is rampant, typical grade school shit. I hope you impress one another, cause you’re not impressing anyone else.

    1. Wage Slave

      Wallow in your bitterness about life being unfair and the evil corporations screwing you over.

      You’re are the standard issue idiot who blames everyone else for your failures. Llpoh was dead on. Anyone who wasn’t able to accumulate $1 million after working for decades at white collar jobs either spent too much or was really a dumbass. Which is your excuse?

      Blaming others is your M.O.

      I had you figured out in 3 seconds.

  88. Why’s everyone knocking on Wage Slave? His first post is largely dead on.

    He’s not advocating SNAP. I don’t there’s any members of the “FSA” here, but then again, I would redefine that as anyone taking social security or medicaid or working for the government.


    Admin says, “The millenials do not get to complain about what might happen to them before it happens. We’re in the Fourth Turning. They have to step up and lead the country through the Crisis.”

    They do get to complain about the poor economic environment which the the older generations have wrought, and we are wasting keystrokes disparaging them for not working hard enough to match our standard living, which is propped up by control of the game and resources. It’s bad enough to join a Monopoly game in progress, but then have all the established players decide to change the rules and give themselves printed money to front-run them and buy up all assets?

    When you say “step up” what do mean? Occuppy Wall street? What can they possibly do?

    If anything, their best course of action would be to conserve energy and opt out, and outlast, and squeeze the system for every bit they can get, because that same system has generally destroyed most opportunities for their generation. One can hate SNAP and all handouts and some in particular who they go to, but at this point it’s just Roman bread made with Egyptian wheat passed around to keep system from collapsing.

    Maybe some want them to perhaps revolt, but is that fair? Start a new movement or political party? OK, but if so, we had better understand that it might not be the kind of force that respects that faded document and reams of laws used to suppress them (in their minds)….. so would that put us at odds with such a movement?

  89. Admin will get 100 thumbs up for saying the same thing I did. Life is so unfair.

    Hey, but there is some consolation – I spotted and abused old Wage Slave first. I have an unmatched ability to spot folks who make excuses to try to cover up their incompetence and stupidity. As I said, I made a career out of ferreting them out and giving them the boot. I called those types anchors – the ship always sails faster if you throw dead wight overboard.

  90. Method Man – you are incorrect. He tried to hide his bullshit – I have already debunked his bullshit about no one getting promoted at Walmart. Walmart employs enormous numbers of folks. A lot are drones. Drones require disproportionate numbers of leaders to function, and lots of rules.

    Wage Slaves bullshit was easy to see if you know what to look for, but he covered his tracks from casual observers by preyin on the general loathing of Walmart that most folks have. .

  91. Wage Slave,
    I do not come here to impress anyone. I come here to exchange ideas, have some fun and fling some shit. Apparently you left your sense of humor and anything you had left hanging between your legs at the site of your betrayal from the capitalist pigs that run our government and economy. For such a bright guy you just don’t get it. Yes, you may well have been fucked over, read about Admins father-in-law if you want to see the definition of fucked over. You need to move on. Life is not fair, nor will it ever be. You appear to be a bright guy, toughen up and figure it out. Nobody gives a shit about you plight, in fact you have had it quite easy compared to some. Apparently this is not your game, but if you want to play again we will be happy to teach you. Of course at your own risk.

  92. A couple of thoughts on this discussion:

    1. Not one mention of the REAL culprit – inflation. The Federal Reserves inflationary policies of the last century have continuously devalued our currency to the point where we think it’s just normal for things to cost more as time goes on. Newsflash: IT’S NOT NORMAL!!! It is a stealth tax, a way of devaluing our money without us realizing that we have been robbed. In the 1800’s we had no inflation and we had enormous prosperity and ingenuity. This is THE reason why the millenials today can’t get by on what we could get by on 20 years ago.

    20 years ago

    Rent – I paid $200 – $300 a month and I lived less than a block from the beach in St. Augustine, FL.
    Gas – I commuted 50 miles one way and paid $20 a week in gas, maybe $30 if I took a road trip.
    Food – For $100 I could get enough groceries for two weeks, including snacks and extras.
    Beer – $5 for a six pack

    We should stop fighting amongst ourselves, that is what they want, it is a divide and conquer strategy by the PTB and it is working really well.

    People don’t understand that there IS a simple solution, it’s called freedom. Give people freedom to pursue their dreams and you will be amazed how quickly this country could turn it around. Freedom to sell what you want, freedom to ingest what you want, freedom to take risks, freedom to fail.

    On another point to all the min wages earners, there are four levels of working.

    1. Working for someone else – most people do this.
    2. Start your own business and do all the work yourself. Most small business owners do this.
    3. Start your own business and have others do the work for you. Nice income if you can get it.
    4. Invest and earn a return – like Warren Buffett and others.

    I just made $125 being an affiliate for an ecig company. What did I do, I set up a youtube channel (taught myself how to do it two years ago) downloaded the vids from the company V2cigs, uploaded them onto my channel and put in my discount codes. That’s it. Haven’t even looked at the youtube channel in over a year. I have made a total of $1500 in 18 months. It worked so good I did the same thing for another ecig brand, got a check for $200 from them last week.

    I am NOT bragging, I am just pointing out to all the min wage earners out there, think outside the box, if you are not happy with your income find ways to supplement it. Is it easy? No, if it was anyone could do it. There are many, many affiliate programs out there, take some time, look into it, think of ways to capitalize on it.

    Try to start your own business. You can buy a 24 pack of coke for less than .25 cents a can, go to a concert or downtown and sell them for $1 a piece. Maybe even get a license to do it.

    There are many ways to make money, maybe not a whole lot of money but if you are only making $10 an hour, $200 is a nice bonus.

    My ecigs youtube channel –

    I spent a total of maybe 10 hours setting these two channels up and have made over $2000 in the last two years. It just takes patience and determination.

    Also if you think our economy sucks, try moving to Costa Rica for a while or Chile, if you are young and have no kids, what do you have to lose? Don’t speak Spanish, so what, you will learn it much quicker being someplace that speaks it, go online watch some free language videos.

    Use your head people, that’s what America is all about.

    JJ3 The Liberty Bard

  93. “the ship always sails faster if you throw dead wight overboard”

    Something tells me that will someday be a saying by those directing the firing squads… but it may not be us calling the “shots.”

  94. “Use your head people, that’s what America is all about.” ….leaving it?

    Good comments otherwise. There still are lots of ways to make a few bucks and be standout fish in the lake…. but my overall view is that the lake is draining now. Economic activity will become bound by energy, and generally diverted ever more to the rich, the primary mechanism being inflation as you mention.

  95. The comments for this thread have had me laughing for a good 10 minutes now… especially Bob and the pics… I was against them at first, but man, they did have me laughing. 🙂

    Too bad I missed out on all the fun before Wage Slave packed up his/her tampons and ran off to find some likeminded fudgepackers who will nod and agree with everything… or should I say “got run off”?

    The comments remind me of the printer scene in Office Space… with Wage being the printer…

  96. The meandering result of this thread illustrates perfectly why statists hate actual liberty so violently. The price of the freedom to think and say what you want is that you might actually offend someone. God forbid anyone’s feelings are hurt in the process of debating the issues of the day. Apparently some people can hack it, others can’t. Reality always wins.

  97. JJ3 – So if I were to mention the names Panama Hatties or Tradewinds, you’d know exactly what I was talking about, right?

  98. So Billy has pulled the broomstick out of his ass, and now not only likes the pics, but is posting vids and such of his own. What a surprise – a convert!

    Now Billy, admit it, you feel like a dickhead for being such a pain early on, don’t you? You are settling right in. I told you to leave the Stucks and AWDs alone, because there are plenty of real assholes about to keep you busy. And looky looky – I was right. Every day a new Wage Slave shows up to provide entertainment.

    Hell, Billy, in no time you will be posting pics of people’s mamas, farm animals, and inbred cousins.

  99. JJ3 – hope you declared that $2000. You gotta pay your fair share.

    Your comment about starting a business and getting others to do the work is naive. No one I have ever heard of has done that. People start a business, and do all the work. Then if they are successful they hire one person, and do 80%of the work, and if that goes ok, they hire another and do 70 percent of the work, etc. Finally maybe they get 50 employees and only do 5 or ten percent of the work.

    Small business owners are always working – even when others think they are not.

  100. “Hell, Billy, in no time you will be posting pics of people’s mamas, farm animals, and inbred cousins.”

    Strangely enough, LLPOH’s mama-cousin also happens to be a farm animal. An ass, I believe.

  101. TPC – you know you should not prod the bear. You will get clawed, bitten, and ultimately crapped out to fertilise the forest. But you know I love you yunguns, and folks like you give me hope for the future.

    But do not press your luck. I am real cranky in my old age, and do enjoy booting yutes out of my yard.

    Here is a photo of Billy now that he realizes that he was somewhat over-zealous in his initial efforts to roast and toast:


  102. TPC – my momma was not an ass. She was more like a grizzly. I do not think I have ever seen a more protective momma when her young were threatened.

    This is her dealing with a guy that used to bully me:


  103. Llpoh

    “Now Billy, admit it, you feel like a dickhead for being such a pain early on, don’t you?”

    Nope… well, maybe a little. I was spoiling for a fight, and I got one… still, poke me with a pointy stick and I’ll turn into a rage-monster.

    “TPC – my momma was not an ass. She was more like a grizzly. I do not think I have ever seen a more protective momma when her young were threatened.

    This is her dealing with a guy that used to bully me..”

    Dude… you got your MOM to fight your battles?

    That explains soooo much..

  104. Billy – I never got her to do anything. She was unstoppable.

    My general technique was to bite the ever living shit out of bullies. One time I was getting shit kicked out of me by a bully three years older – I was 12 and he around 15 or 16. He had me down beating shit out of me. So I decided, what the hell, and I latched onto his arm with the old ivories. Well, next thing you know I was on top beating the ever living shit out of that fucker. I beat his ass purple while he cried for momma. No other bullies messed with me at that school. They kept a wide berth, for sure.

    I learned fighting was not for fun but for winning. Served me well over the years.

  105. Speaking from a Millenial perspective – I have worked the 29 hours a week that both Wage Slave and Calamity have described. I have a feeling that the difference between the two outcomes and perspectives is due perhaps to simple regional differences. We live in a particularly prosperous part of Canada. Things are different. There is oil money in the city. I didn’t fully understand the depths of my generations financial position until my mid-20s. At that point I was working Shift Supervisor at the busiest Starbucks in North America (during the Holiday season).

    Some reflections on that time. Good Lord, the Corporation doesn’t give a flying fuck about the pay of its employees. Fancy coffee-slinger baristas make less than McDonalds front line staff in my city. Shfit Supervisors are generally a dollar or two lower than other retail and food service outlets. BUT – and I will echo Admin here – I’ve seen shift supervisors do a good job, put in the time, and become the ASSMAN – assistant manager – and then a year later – admin. On the other hand, I was constantly aware of the glass ceiling that was placed above me. I always had a clueless just-graduated MBA manager-in-training parachuted in that was fucking worthless on the floor. They were generally 4-5 years older, and unwilling to get their hands dirty.

    Lessons I learned. Find jobs in places that are the busiest, where a good work ethic is necessary to survive. It will shape and form you. Even the idea of challenging yourself but simply experiencing that kind of work will change you for the better. It doesn’t stop you from being resentful for being paid the same some damn lazy wage slave at a slow store, where you can dick around and text your friend from behind the counter.

    I put in the time at the university to get my teaching degree. I am not a liberal, but I have a passion for working with youth. We have the highest rates of anxiety in our youth of the past few generations. (Let me tell you about the anxiety disorders popping up – entirely due to the latchkey style parenting techniques of Boomers and X-ers, in my opinion!) I networked. I worked hard. I learned what best practices meant. I found the right people recruiting and now I pull down above median income.

    If I were to speak to fellow Millenials, I would say, don’t be afraid to physically move to the cities and regions where things are prosperous. A bus ticket is all you need to save up for. It’s what happened in the Great Depression. We already understand what it means to live humbly. Perhaps we need to learn more deeply what it means to live with more mobility. Find where people simply need help, and get to work.

    When it comes to our generation being heroes, perhaps we are simply waiting for the boomers to die or retire. They have fed us to Moloch, in the tophet, the burning place. We are the fuel upon which they receive their pension check.

  106. Like so many others, the woman in the story is trying to eat like royalty (food prepared by the servants of the pre fab food industry) without the money to throw away on such edibles. Her life and health will be far better if she thinks and acts more like a peasant. Example: luncheon meats and canned vegetables? Not only are they extraordinarily expensive, but they taste like shit and offer virtually no nutrition. The question she has to ask herself is this: how much nutrition do I get with these calories for this price? It will turn her food choices around.

    Since she clearly has time, all food must be prepared from scratch from the most basic ingredients–any type of prefab food is expensive and she can’t waste her dollars on such luxuries.

    But, let me offer some additional ideas:
    –Join a community garden to grow food for her and her daughter and give excess to others less well off. A PhD student in Lake Worth, FL found his garden labor was worth $12 an hour–he priced the exact amount of food grown against the daily grocery store price. It was $22 an hour if he priced it against organic. That would be after tax dollars, I might add. That should make anyone wonder why the idle in their household haven’t already dug up the backyard and planted. Hydroponic reefer of course is the most profitable form of farming, but the drugs laws are too draconian to risk getting caught.
    –Volunteer at a senior center, homeless center, etc. She can eat a meal or two there daily–probably prepared by her.
    –If she can manage to save a little bit of capital, become a farmers’ market vendor. No other business can be entered with such low capital costs. Sales are in cash, so she can retain her gov. benefits and if she plays her cards right, turn it into a good business and have a far better life once she is able to earn enough to extract herself from government dependency (I swear welfare is priced at precisely the amount it requires to keep one alive, but perpetually miserable).

    Yes, I know I’m oversimplifying and making it sound miserably simple. It’s not, but as she moves in the direction I’ve outlined, she will be far better off.

  107. Billy – I never got her to do anything. She was unstoppable.

    My general technique was to bite the ever living shit out of bullies. One time I was getting shit kicked out of me by a bully three years older – I was 12 and he around 15 or 16. He had me down beating shit out of me. So I decided, what the hell, and I latched onto his arm with the old ivories. Well, next thing you know I was on top beating the ever living shit out of that fucker. I beat his ass purple while he cried for momma. No other bullies messed with me at that school. They kept a wide berth, for sure.

    I learned fighting was not for fun but for winning. Served me well over the years.

    I might add, as I age it’s taking longer to get the same effect. It takes considerable more time and effort to bring those fuckers to heel.


  108. The definition of employment: “to use”. If you are employed, you are being used by those who stand to benefit from your time and labor.
    We are all being used as product. Even the SNAP program is sponsored by J.P. Morgan, and the program is run by corporations. Poverty and homelessness is also big business.
    Try to look at the whole picture. None of us are doing very well when we are all being used in a cycle of human trafficking by wealthy sociopaths. There are millions who are employed that are lazy, and do very little work in offices all over this country. We are all receiving hand-outs from the same corporations that fund the foodstamp programs. Although, you may be employed (“used”) your check comes from J.P. Morgan, just like welfare recipients. We are all being deceived, divided and exploited by the same people.

  109. My sister and I were “latchkey” kids while growing up as my mother could not afford daycare. But we were spared the anxiety of modern kids because the style of childrearing in the 50s and 60s was far more relaxed, and less pretentious and structured, than now.

    We are literally driving our kids INSANE by monitoring and structuring their every activity, never giving them a free moment to relax, to think, to reflect, to imagine. Kids can no longer run loose in their neighborhoods and make new friends themselves- moms arrange “playdates” for their kids, and the kids are expected to somehow mesh with kids who happen to be the offspring of mom’s friends. If your mother is the reserved type who isn’t into constant socializing and “relating”, you are just out of luck and will have no friends to play with.

    Every behavior and innocent gesture of the growing child is scrutinized for signs of “disorder” or criminal intent, and kids are being chastised and suspended from school for doing things like chewing a pop-tart into a shape that looks a little like a gun, or for spontaneously hugging another kid, or expressing an opinion considered to be “inappropriate”, while the psychiatric witch-doctor “profession” exerts itself to find new “disorders”.

    The poor kids are so nitpicked, fussed over, over-supervised, and over-structured, I wonder how they aren’t all insane from it. Far from not getting enough of their mother’s presence, today’s kids get way, way too much Mommy and WAAAAY too much of adult interference of every type.


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