Scotland. Ukraine. Catalonia. Texas?
Anyone who can’t see or refuses to see the worldwide mood change since 2008 is either brain dead, entrapped in a bubble of normalcy bias wrapped in cognitive dissonance, or they are part of or dependent upon the Deep State.
Something is happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear.
I think the U.S. will break up into regional gov’t., due to the corruption in D.C. I think the people of Europe see the same thing in the EUC, and think WTF does this grupe have my best interest at heart.
i also wouldn’t mind if my part of PA (Pennsyltucky) broke off from the rest
3 out of 4 Free Shitters say “NO!!”
Just like in Scotland.
Last time a bunch of us got together and “UN-volunteered” to be a part of the Union, Mr. Lincoln sent his goons down here and they rampaged down to Atlanta and then all the way over to the Atlantic Ocean, leaving nothing but destruction in their wake…
600,000+ combat deaths. Adding in the dead from starvation, rapine, disease, murder, privation, suicide, etc, I’m betting that number easily tops 1 million.
Economy wrecked for a generation or more. Billions of dollars in damage. Animosity sown that still exists to this day.
Anyone wanting to read about what it was REALLY like, needs to read “Monsters of virtuous pretension”. It’s about the siege and sack of Colombia, South Carolina by Union troops, and the gentleman who wrote the eye-witness account of it – William Gilmore Simms – was a world famous author and journalist.
Anyone interested in an unvarnished look at our last throwdown, or even anyone interested in American History, needs to read the book “A City Laid Waste”, where Simm’s account is published. It is an unflinchingly brutal look at what Yankees did to the South.
I expect if any of us get together and “un-volunteer” to be a part of the Union again, it will be doubly worse this time around…
By the way, I would like to take this moment and air a grievance…
The following was written by Simms and published in the Charleston Mercury on 17 January, 1861…
“Many Northerners,” he says, “hate the South and vilify it as worthless, wanting in moral and energy; unprosperous, grossly ignorant, brutal; uneducated, wanting literature, art, statesmanship, wisdom – every element of intellect and manners.”
Now, I would like someone to tell me how that view has changed (how Yankees view us Southerners) since the above was written… because I’m not seeing a whole lot of difference between what Simms wrote 153 years ago and what gets written here on TBP…
Just sayin’…
Why? Surely Admin asks rhetorically only to make a point.
We are witnessing the decline of the greatest country that has ever existed, while the entire western world leads the way to totalitarianism. We have bastardized the ‘Be thy brothers’ keeper’ into subsidizing poverty, both individual poverty and the poverty of virtue that arises when the government becomes a fascist state that is for sale to the highest corporate bidder. We have betrayed ourselves by electing psychopaths to the highest and lowest offices.
We no longer guarantee opportunity, we now attempt to guarantee outcome, which will always lower the standards upon which success shall be judged, insidiously reducing the individuals’ standards and character in the process. We have allowed the religious right to capture the Republican Party and violate the constitution which they whole halfheartedly defend. The very insistence of Christian virtues in government violates the founding fathers concept of freedom from religion. Christian virtues, yes. Government enforcement of these virtues, no.
We have allowed the socialist Democrat left to bastardize the concept that government knows what is best, only reinforcing the abandonment of excellence for sub-standard norms. We elect a President, not based on experience, insight, or character, we elect a president based on the color of his skin, wanting to give the minority a chance based on color not qualifications. MLK is turning in his grave knowing that the concept of ‘Content of his Character’ has been bastardized to ‘Give the black guy a chance.’
Could I go on? Yes, the path to hell, paved with many good intentions, is unending. But do not assume that the “Something happening here’ is the result of insight, advancement, and the elevation of mankind. The opportunity to slide further is at least equal to our chance to restore order to the worlds plight. So long as people relinquish their responsibilities to a higher authority (Government), expect things to get worse, which is what happens when government determines what is right and just; self serving bureaucracy.
Ideology has resulted in our falling to recognize that those that have stated their goal is to destroy the West and specifically America (Iran, Hezbollah,, al Qaeda, ISIS) is proof that we grow more stupid by the day. These enemies see the world in centuries while our leaders see the world in election cycles.
Furthermore, failing to recognize that only 10% of any group or country is all that is needed to violate the standards to which we ascribe (freedom, prosperity, opportunity) can cause the remaining 90% to react as sheep that will more likely determine our fate (Nazis, Khmer Rouge, the radical Muslims of today are/were less than 10% of those groups).
Failing to recognize that when more than 50% of a country is dependent on government, the people become complacent and are willing to accept mediocrity in place of excellence, so long as they continue to receive ‘Free shit.” Indeed, there is something happening here. However, I believe ‘What it is, is clear.’ We have not yet reached bottom. Can we rebound prior to hitting the bottom? History says no. Lets hope history does not repeat.
” ….. because I’m not seeing a whole lot of difference between what Simms wrote 153 years ago and what gets written here on TBP… ” ———— Billy
Not sure what you’re talking about. Maybe a handful, or less, of posters …. but, we have many folks on TBP who hail from the South. Kunstler, the Hater of the South, often gets mocked here by TBPers. Personally, I see TBP as Southern friendly.
I may be a damn Yankee, but it’s not by choice. My heart is in Dixie. (I was gonna say Wyoming, but it’s to damn cold there.)
Billy
I would never allow bashing of Southerners on TBP. If you come across any offensive comments just let me know.
Tom
Good post, good points.
Can you try using paragraphs next time?
how much of that 1/4 polling percentage is just for shock value and thus nothing but smoke and hot air.
oh noze….sadly true.
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I’m proud to be a heir of Rebel ancestry…
“[T]he contest is really for empire on the side of the North, and for independence on that of the South, and in this respect we recognize an exact analogy between the North and the Government of George III, and the South and the Thirteen Revolted Provinces. These opinions…are the general opinions of the English nation.”
London Times, November 7, 1861
“Our country demands all our strength, all our energies. To resist the powerful combination now forming against us will require every man at his place. If victorious, we will have everything to hope for in the future. If defeated, nothing will be left for us to live for.”
Robert E. Lee
“Nothing fills me with deeper sadness than to see a Southern man apologizing for the defense we made of our inheritance. Our cause was so just, so sacred, that had I known all that has come to pass, had I known what was to be inflicted upon me, all that my country was to suffer, all that our posterity was to endure, I would do it all over again.”
President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A.
“All that the South has ever desired was that the Union as established by our forefathers should be preserved and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth.”
Robert E. Lee
“We could have pursued no other course without dishonour; and as sad as the results have been, if it had all to be done over again, we should be compelled to act in precisely the same manner.”
Robert E. Lee
“I am nothing but a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for salvation.”
Robert E. Lee
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Tom.
My rebuttle:
You –> ” We have betrayed ourselves by electing psychopaths to the highest and lowest offices.”
The problem is a Catch 22. Since the best man for the job is the man who does not want the job the most – since he is wise enough to know that power corrupts – the only ones who actually want the job are, by default, psychopaths and sociopaths. We elect psychopaths because those are the only ones running for office.
“We have allowed the religious right to capture the Republican Party and violate the constitution which they whole halfheartedly defend.”
Erm… how can “the religious right” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) capture a party made up entirely of sociopaths and psychopaths? If you had to name one characteristic that most defined a psychopath, it would be lack of empathy. Assuming “the religious right” in this instance means “Christian”, the one characteristic they DO have is empathy.. .perhaps too much. See a problem here?
“The very insistence of Christian virtues in government violates the founding fathers concept of freedom from religion.”
This statement belies a breathtaking lack of understanding about the Framers, who they were, their motivations, beliefs, and a total misinterpretation of Article 1 of the Bill of Rights. “Freedom FROM religion”? The fuck? How do you get “freedom FROM religion” out of this?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
” MLK is turning in his grave knowing that the concept of ‘Content of his Character’ has been bastardized to ‘Give the black guy a chance.’ ”
Jeezus… how could you bring up a woman beating, plagiarizing, womanizing, drunken Marxist fraud of a Negro as a role model or even a GOOD example? If you had a half a clue, you’d know that the whole Snivel Rights Movement was NEVER about “fair” treatment… it was always about PREFERENTIAL treatment… and that’s what we’re seeing. That you don’t know this or refuse to believe it is also breathtaking in its implications…
” Ideology has resulted in our falling to recognize that those that have stated their goal is to destroy the West and specifically America (Iran, Hezbollah,, al Qaeda, ISIS) is proof that we grow more stupid by the day.”
Because ‘MURKA! Right?? Them damn TERR-RISTS!! BOMB EM! FUCK YEAH!!
“Failing to recognize that when more than 50% of a country is dependent on government, the people become complacent and are willing to accept mediocrity in place of excellence, so long as they continue to receive ‘Free shit.”
Sorry, no. Doesn’t have anything to do with anything as lofty as “mediocrity in place of excellence”.
Food is a weapon. Always has been. Using food to leverage people is as old as humanity. Getting 50% of everyone on board the Free Shit Express means that when all those pukes are taking the King’s Shilling, when the King says “Frog!” everyone says “How high?”. Don’t do what the King says, well… you might just find that spigot of free shit – food especially – cut off… They might be lazy, shiftless parasites, but they know where their daily bread comes from, and they will do what it takes to keep that spigot a-flowing…
You make one or two decent points, but overall I give your post a 3.5 out of 10.
Admin,
Heh..
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1 In 4 Americans Want Their State To Secede From The US
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/20/2014 11:15 -0400
With all eyes firmly fixed on Europe’s secessionist movements (most notably Scotland and Catalan), the growing tensions in America took a back seat for a moment. But, as Reuters reports, a recent poll found one-in-four Americans want their state to secede from The US with men more secessionist than women and the Southwest most aggrieved. By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.
Europe’s secessionist movements have garnered all the attention recently…
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But in the US, ‘aggrievement’ is on the rise…
As Reuters adds,
Secession got more support from Republicans than Democrats, more from right- than left-leaning independents, more from younger than older people, more from lower- than higher-income brackets, more from high school than college grads. But there was a surprising amount of support in every group and region, especially the Rocky Mountain states, the Southwest and the old Confederacy, but also in places like Illinois and Kansas. And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53 percent.
…
By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.
This should be more than disconcerting; it’s a situation that could get dangerous. As the Princeton political scientist Mark Beissinger has shown, separatist movements can take hold around contempt for incumbents and the status quo even when protesters have no ideology in common.
The United States hardly seems to be on the verge of fracture, and the small secession movements in a handful of American states today represent a tiny percentage of those polled by Reuters. But any country where 60 million people declare themselves to be sincerely aggrieved — especially one that is fractious by nature — is a country inviting either the sophistry of a demagogue or a serious movement for reform.
* * *
As Martin Armstrong warns,
“Civil unrest is coming to America sooner than you think. This will ignite old feelings of discontent across both religion and race in America.”
…
The promises that you save for the future have collapsed into dust as interest rates have been driven lower making savings utterly worthless. There is no such thing as saving and living off your fixed income. The elderly are being driven back into the work force and the whole ideas that a generation believed in are vanishing before their eyes.
So it is no longer communists and dictators that are the targets. All governments are now the targets and when the economy turns down after 2015.75, the threat of civilization will be pulled apart by the self-interest of politicians clinging to power to the detriment of the people.
* * *
This should be no surprise, as we warned over 2 years ago that rising levels of government debt are a crucial determining factor in chaos and civil unrest…
JPMorgan recently noted this study:
The authors tested to see if results varied with ethnic fragmentation, inflation, penetration of mass media and the quality of government institutions; they did not. Results are also consistent across time, covering interwar and postwar periods.
The independent variable that did result in more unrest: higher levels of government debt in the first place.
Robert E.Lee , perhaps the most respected and beloved General in the history of America was a Christian. Oh the horror.
Nice map…
The usual suspects… Kurds, Walloons, Basques (those fuckers been blowing shit up for 20+ years), Catalonians, damn near everyone in the Balkans (damn, they really hate each other, yeah?), Chechens, Irish (been blowing shit up a LONG time), Welsh…
The idea the Onion had awhile back comes to mind… just give everyone their own personal country.
Hmm… my posts are not showing up… wonder why?
For some reason, I try to link to “monsters” and also “A city laid waste” and it keeps coming up blank…
Something preventing me from posting/linking…
Admin? Any ideas?
Billy
I’m not sure what the problem is. Sometimes the server software thinks some websites are dangerous and blocks them. This is because of the denial of service attacks.
Admin,
Thanks… I’ll post the links, but break them up a bit.. see if I can get them past the filter…
w w w . a b b e v i l l e i n s t i t u t e . o r g / r e v i e w / m o n s t e r s – o f – v i r t u o u s – p r e t e n s i o n /
That’s the first one. Second is
w w w . a m a z o n . c o m / C i t y – L a i d – W a s t e – D e s t r u c t i o n – C o l u m b i a / d p / B 0 0 8 W 3 X W 7 0
Best I could do… something’s wonky…
Here’s the cover. Hey Stucky? You need to read these…
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Posted a response to Billy but it did not publish.
Scotland Votes Breakdown on Age
Posted on September 20, 2014 by Martin Armstrong
In terms of age, the 16-35 year-olds were divided, yet there was a pro union majority for the over 65 group counting on pensions.
◾16 and 17-year-olds voting 71% yes.
◾18-24-year-olds voted 52 to 48 against independence.
◾25-34-year-olds voted for Independence.
◾65s+ voted 73% to 27% to stay in the Union.
The results show that the No campaign won among men and women. Unsurprisingly, 95% of Conservative voters backed the Union. It is surprising that the religious card is being thrown around Social Media in heated debates when church attendance is a near record lows. Many people have drifted away from religion yet still define themselves as Protestant or Catholic. It seems that this is like the USA saying Russia is an enemy when the original issue was they were communists. It appears as though – once enemies – always enemies – even when views change and religion is not actively practiced by many these days yet it still seems to define people into groups.
This is illustrating the great disparity between generations. Not that they are hostile within the same household, but as groups – most definitely and this will only get worse as the economy turns down.
Stucky says: Personally, I see TBP as Southern friendly.
I have never read a more whiny yet delightfully hypocritical comment as Billy’s “wah wah wah, Yankees hate us for our racism and ignorance” complaint. Somebody get him a tissue.
Preemptive Strike: Why don’t you 69 me, Billy?
“Tom says: Posted a response to Billy but it did not publish.”
Sure it did, dumbshit. You just posted it in the wrong thread… so, I will cross-post my reply here and there both… just for little old you.
———————————
Cross-post.
“The religious psychopaths are no better than the socialist psychopaths that cater to the free shit crowd.”
Religious right = Christian (in your view). Christians are defined by an overdeveloped sense of empathy.
Psychopaths are defined by a lack of empathy.
Therefore, a “Religious Psychopath” is something that simultaneously can and cannot exist.
My conclusion: You don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about. Either intentionally (which makes you disingenuous) or unintentionally (which makes you pig-ignorant).
————————
“Freedom FROM religion” plus this bilge –> “Spare me your academic arguments about the constitution. The reality is the Christian right is a voting block, etc, etc… (snip) … knowing that a second term for a president like Obama is the result.”
I took exception to your bastardization of Article I of the Bill of Rights = “Freedom FROM religion” = by citing chapter and verse, proving that you got some bullshit out of a plainly worded Amendment that simply DOES NOT exist.
In other words, you’re reading shit into the Constitution that simply isn’t there, same as any über-activist leftist piece of shit Judge…
Your reply to that has nothing to do with the subject, that being: You’re pig-ignorant of the Bill of Rights and are equally pig-ignorant of the motivations behind those Amendments. Moreover, you attempt cover your ignorance (poorly) by tap-dancing and attempting to marginalize my very correct observation (which is that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about) by posting some unrelated bullshit.
My conclusion: You’re fucking retarded.
———————-
Me: Food is a weapon. Always has been.
You: “Nonsense. When is the last time you were in the hood? There is a culture of dependency that far out weighs your excuse for food.”
Okay, now I think you’re just fucking off your axle… burned a bearing or some shit…
Once again, WHY is it “nonsense”? Prove it.
And what does my frequency of going into “the hood” have to do with the fact that food has ALWAYS been used to leverage people, if not a weapon?
“Culture of dependency”? Motherfucker, do you remember aways back, in Atlanta? Just a few months back. Because of some glitch, the EBT cards (ie: FOOD, you dumb shit) didn’t get recharged for like 6 hours… this happened in “the hood” as you put it. There was nearly a goddamned RIOT because the EBT cards were delayed in being recharged by just a few hours…
But, according to you, food can’t be used as a weapon… You think it’s completely beyond those bastards in DC – or anywhere else – to use EBT cards as a weapon? Not only against blacks, but against whites… cut off the EBT cards, the blacks will riot. Who will they take their anger out on? Yep, Mr. and Mrs. Whitebread Suburbanite…
But, I guess all of history doesn’t mean shit, because you’re right and you say so…
———————–
Hey, douchebag… I don’t much give a shit if you ‘approve’ of anything I write… I simply enjoy showing how big of a fucking idiot you are to the world. It brings me great joy to make you look stupid… actually, I don’t do much, as you do most of the “stupid” yourself. I just point it out.
Anyways, I rate your rebuttal as a pathetic 2.5 on the classic 1 to 10 scale… I think the “Retard” cutoff is about 4 or so…
Remember Billy, “Tom” is not “Tommy”. Otherwise, carry on!
“Sure it did, dumbshit. You just posted it in the wrong thread”
Things are not going well for Tom right out of the gate! LOL!
I_S,
I gotcha… but given the proliferation of doppels around here, you understand my assuming Tom was Tommy attempting to play the “I DINDOO NUFFINS!” card…
At least Tommy had the mental horsepower to at least stay on topic and not post a rebuttal in some random thread…
Admin @ 10:41 am. One of the funniest comments ever. Billy has been officially baptized on TBP.
Anyhow, note the Southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma) at 34%, highest in the country. Delete liberal strongholds like Austin, Albuquerque, Houston and Tucson, and I bet it would jump closer to 50%. I’ve got it all figured out. Add all of Colorado’s countries from the Rocky Mountains west to Utah (they would like to form a new state and have said so) plus Utah and Louisiana, and we’re good to go.
1. Water? No problem. Total control of the Colorado and Rio Grande rivers plus the snowpack that feeds them. I threw in Utah because of Lake Powell behind the Glen Canyon Dam. Utah would be delighted to join anyway. Southern California and Las Vegas are fucked.
2. Power? No problem. The Southwest is already self-sufficient in electricity and exports the excess into the grid. Southern California and Las Vegas are fucked. (Did you know that the command center for controlling ALL of the hydroelectric power produced by the dams on the lower Colorado is in …………….. Phoenix.)
3. Transportation energy (oil, gasoline, and natural gas)? No problem. Self-sufficient with Texas and Oklahoma in the mix, but I threw in Louisiana just to be greedy. More oil and refineries. Southern California and Las Vegas are fucked.
4. Food? No problem. Massive ranches, dairy farms, citrus groves and grain/vegetable fields all over. Plus very friendly neighbors and farmers in northern Mexico, which exports huge quantities of food to the U.S. Southern California and Las Vegas are fucked.
That covers the basics. How’s your state/region doing?
I nominate SSS to be the first president of The United Southwest States Republic (USSR).
Administrator says:
“I nominate SSS to be the first president of The United Southwest States Republic (USSR).”
No way dude! SSS still lives un-sustainably large in a fucking desert!
Admin
I accept. I’d straighten some shit out here in a heartbeat. I’d start by slam dunking EPA-huggers and global warmers.
I_S
You’re showing your ignorance of Arizona. And you didn’t read my comments.
I did read your comments here as well as in the thread where I kicked your ass all over the place regarding the subject. After obfuscating for some time and then changing the subject, you just crawled away like a cur.
Do tell which major rivers flow through AZ providing all of your water and electric needs without destroying ecosystems and livelihoods downstream. I’m sure it’s a long list. I’ll wait. I’m sure Dave_L will check in to support you in the meantime.
How much is pissed away keeping golf courses green and waterparks going? Without the Colorado, how long before Tucson and Phoenix and the surrounding areas revert to their natural state?
SSS can have the Southwest. And more power to him… heat, sand, no-see-ums, wind and scrub brush… been there, done that.
Don’t get me wrong. Some damn beautiful country out that way. I just like green better than tan.
We can cut a trade agreement. SSS will allow us Southrons to vacay in the mountains, and we’ll trade the straight up good corn liquor and tobacco for the privilage. Maybe throw in some coal, for the effort.
Still have to nail down that whole wide-open southern border thingy… and the zillions of illegals. But, I have faith in him…
Typo: supposed to be “trade them straight up”… not “the”…
Damn sprung fingers… I got two fingers sprained on the same hand… how the fuck that happened, I got no idea… gonna splint em up, then wrap the whole mess with an Ace bandage…
I welcome secession movements, and absolutely support any state that wants to secede, especially the sand states.
It will be very interesting to see how the west and the south, particularly the desert states, get along without the Welfare Daddies who have supported them for over 100 years and provided them with steeply subsidized water to make it possible to grow crops in the middle of the most arid, high-altitude farmland on the continent, namely The Bureau of Reclamation, the Army Corp of Engineers, and the Tennessee Valley Authority. While your at it, thank the taxpayers in the eastern part of the country for providing the moolah for 1,750 dams built by BuRec alone, never mind the hundreds more built by the Corp and the TVA, at great cost to rest of us.
The TVA has been shoring up and grouting its fragile Wolf Creek Dam on its bed of eroding karst limestone for a generation now, and I sincerely hope that the secessionists have a plan- and the money- to keep grouting and reinforcing this thing hanging over Nashville like an gigantic axe. I also hope that the westerners have the wherewithal to keep jerry-rigging the massive Glen Canyon, which almost breached in 1983, while the sandstone abutments continue to erode-never mind the rest of the huge fleet of high power dams built in the west by the Bureau.
Wolf Creek is bad… I think it got a Z minus last time it was inspected..
Thing is, if it cuts loose and washes away Nashville, we’d be doing everyone a favor…
Fucking idiots on this site, namely Indentured Servant, Billy, and Chicago 999444.
The Southwest is self-sufficient in the basics. Water, energy, and food. The infrastructure is here. How it got here is moot. End of discussion.
And you clueless dickheads haven’t got the faintest notion of the POTENTIAL of the Southwest. Huge water aquifers. Uranium deposits for nuclear power. Potash, copper, coal (yes, coal) etc.
You think I’m talking about just Arizona. No. The chart in the article includes Texas and Oklahoma. Tremendous fucking economic and military powerhouses. Off the charts. Populated by a lot of people who care about liberty.
I support any movement that eliminates layers of governments and taxing authorities, to essential government functions, which are really very few.
If you all secede, we can fade the Bureau of Reclamation. In fact, we should do so right now, turning all the dams and aquaducts over to the states to maintain, while cancelling all projects the bureau is trying to get off the ground at this moment. We shhould also cut all the other agencies, such as the TVA (which should have ended decades ago), and every other water reclamation project that the federal government supports in the west. We can also get rid of the Bureau of Land Management and the Bureau of Mining Reclamation. We can then reduce the Army Corp of Engineers steeply.
Maintenance of water and highway infrastructure should be turned over to the individual states in which the structures are located. If a state secedes, this will happen. We will have to just “write off” all the crap built out there since the Reclamation Act of 1902 was passed, but that’s OK because that stuff never paid for itself anyway.
It’s all yours, as far as I’m concerned. Good riddance to a few hundred billion in the cost of rehabilitating and maintaining all that concrete crud.
@ Chicago999444 and Indentured Servant
“The Salt River Project (SRP) is the umbrella name for two separate entities: the Salt River Project Agricultural Improvement and Power District, an agency of the state of Arizona that serves as an electrical utility for the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the Salt River Valley Water Users’ Association, a utility cooperative that serves as the primary water provider for much of central Arizona. It is one of the primary public utility companies in Arizona.”
—-Wiki
Got that? It’s a STATE agency, serves half the population of Arizona (the Phoenix metro area of 3 1/2 million people), and has been since the beginning of the project over century ago. True, it was initially funded by low interest federal government loans, primarily to build the Roosevelt Dam, but even then, the farmers of Arizona pledged 200,000 acres of land as collateral for the loans, which were fully repaid.
That’s an example, just one, where the people of the Southwest did NOT milk the federal treasury for infrastructure resources and continue to manage well those resources within the state. If the federal government would get the fuck out of the way and return most of the federal property in the West to the states, starting with the grossly mismanaged national forests, we’d all be better off, both individually and collectively.
We’re not stupid out here. We realize how precious water and energy are. With ZERO surface water available, how do you think Tucson grew to nearly 1/2 million people BEFORE the Central Arizona Project was built? Answer: over 200 water wells tapped into the second largest underground aquifer in the country. Status of those wells today? Nearly 100% FULL. Who paid for all that? The local customers – home owners, businesses, and farmers, that’s who.
Indentured Servant said something about kicking my ass in a previous thread. Funny, I didn’t feel a thing. Now you know why.
Our aquafiers are all pretty tapped, SSS. The southwest is in severe overdraft, and so are the plain states. None of us have anything like what we had 100 years ago.
Even the “wet” states like IL , GA, et all, are overdrawing their aquafiers.
The Central Arizona Project was created by the Colorado River Basin Project Act of 1968, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson in that year. The huge project was finished in 1993, and cost $4.7B, of which Arizona was expected to pay back $2.3B, less than half the cost. The rest of the cost was borne by U.S. taxpayers at large.
The feds reduced Arizona’s share of the payback to $1.65B, in return for rights over some of the water, AND waived the farmers’ obligation to pay for $73M worth of diversion systems.
Yeah, I would say that AZ got a whole lot more than it paid for out of the rest of us.
Aww.. poor SSS is pissed at me…
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Here… you should try this…
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SSS said:
“Indentured Servant said something about kicking my ass in a previous thread. Funny, I didn’t feel a thing. Now you know why. ”
I hear they have treatments for senility and dementia these days. Get on the Obama Care bandwagon and let your President hook you up!
Chicago says: Yeah, I would say that AZ got a whole lot more than it paid for out of the rest of us.
Quit yerr pissing and moaning, you haven’t put a dent in your share of the debt (`$350,000+). No one will ever do so.
The government has a plan to keep everyone as an indentured citizen. The taxes it collects are nothing more than a stratagem to keep you pore. The laws and multiple fees insure that you as a little guy can never rise above your lot. Breaking the law is the only way to make a bundle of money, just don’t get caught, of course, your required by the IRS to disclose your perfidy, thereby insuring you will get caught.
“We can cut a trade agreement. SSS will allow us Southrons to vacay in the mountains, and we’ll trade the straight up good corn liquor and tobacco for the privilage. Maybe throw in some coal, for the effort.”
—-Billy
Bite me. Keep your corn liquor and tobacco. As for coal, I said above “the POTENTIAL of the Southwest. Huge water aquifers. Uranium deposits for nuclear power. Potash, copper, coal (yes, coal) etc.” There is a 200 year supply of high grade, clean burning coal next to the Navajo Generating Station, a giant 2,300 megawatt power plant near Page, Arizona. And the next time I’m enjoying a southwestern T-bone, I’ll be thinking of you dumping soy sauce on a tasty pack of cigarettes.
@ Indentured Servant ….. nice response, not. Poof. You got nothing. And nearly every golf course in Arizona uses recycled, non-potable sewage water. So get the fuck off your “wasted water on golf courses” high horse.
@ Chicago 999444 ….. feisty little critter, aren’t you? YOUR aquifers may be getting tapped out, and surely the Ogallala Aquifer is getting low, but did you read where I said that the wells tapped into the Tucson Aquifer are FULL. Wanna know why? Tucson recycles partially treated waste water and sends it to recharging ponds where the water filters down through the desert sands, which help to further purify the water, back into the aquifer. Pretty clever, eh?
Now, please excuse me while I watch the Cardinals destroy the 49ers. Fucking Beagles lucked out against the Skins, and the Browns blow another one in the last seconds.
SSS – so the golf course water cannot be used for something more productive? Really?
SSS, here ya go.
Mopped the floor with you when you tried to twist the discussion too. I even earned a favorable ruling from da Judge! No need to repeat what already happened SSS. Most AZ residents, especially those in southern AZ are living beyond their means. Just because they are better than average at conserving water does not change that. Again, what happens to Tucson/Phoenix without the Colorado?
“SSS – so the golf course (non-potable) water cannot be used for something more productive? Really?”
—-Llpoh
Are we talking about “productive” non-potable water meaning a money maker? It’s used for lawns and soccer fields in public parks, which are free and non-productive. It’s used for massive grass areas at the University of Arizona, which drains the state budget by hundreds of millions of dollars. Just two examples.
It’s also used on public and private golf courses. Well run public courses MAKE a generally small profit for the city or county.
Private golf courses are a total cash cow for same. TOTAL. Private employees who pay federal and state income taxes, sales taxes on everything, massive maintenance bills including water and electricity bills, and so on. And I’m not even getting to what it costs to build the fucking things, all with PRIVATE money.
Now you tell me where poorly treated, recycled, non-potable water should go to be “productive,” Mr. Business Man. Golf courses or parks? I say there are good arguments for both.
Would you like me to tell you that the same municipal waste water is used to cool the triple reactors at the Palo Verde nuclear power plant west of Phoenix? I will. Just ask.
@ Indentured Servant … this comment indirectly tells you to eat shit and die.
Agriculture. I said productive.
All of the things SSS mentioned are service related or amenities. When I talk about productive I generally mean agriculture, mining, or manufacturing.
In many parts of the world, people drink reclaimed/recycled water. Some folks are afraid of it. Even if there is a chance that it contains harmful bacteria, etc., the water can be used to drip feed fruit trees, for instance.
So instead of using water on golf courses, a more productive use would be to use the water for agricultural purposes. There could be infrastructure issues, etc.m but to use water for golf courses in a desert seems wasteful to me.
Jeebuz SSS, if you can’t refute that the state of AZ is living beyond it’s means just say so. You can either prove it or you can’t. No need to get nasty.
Again, what happens to the areas of Tucson and Phoenix without the Colorado? You can’t eat or drink potash, coal and copper and your full aquifers are going to stay that way without electricity to pump them which will dramatically hasten the depopulation of those areas.
the majority of the 25 largest industries in AZ are either government or government subsidized … what would happen when the Fed’s money spigot is tuned off?
http://www.careerinfonet.org/oview6.asp?stfips=04&Level=State1
Retail is the largest industry in AZ. consumers are dey’ strength.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140728.htm
What I learned from all this;
—– water is a topic that pisses off SSS more than Sweet Mary Jane
Admin – pls don’t let this article fall off the list of posts. I’m not finished with these mangy curs yet. Thx.
@ I_S …. Nasty is my middle name. And your rants about the Colorado River ring hollow coming from a person that lives in a semi-arid climate with the fucking Columbia River running through it. How’s the entire Pacific Northwest doing without that river? Eh, mate? Not very well, right?
@ Llpoh …. 75% of the water used in Arizona goes to agriculture. Is that enough?
@ flash …. My arguments are based on the entire Southwest from the article’s map. That includes Texas and Oklahoma. I threw in western Colorado, Utah, and Louisiana just for grins. That area becomes a world-class economic powerhouse.
This is like taking candy from a baby.