An Irish pal sends me links to some interesting vimeos almost daily. She and I “met” on a stop smoking forum almost ten years ago, and she long ago left the group of older and wiser “One NOPE at a time” (NOPE=not one puff ever) coaching staff on the forum.
I think she must have been paid a lot of money, unlike Admin here at TBP whose devotion to truth, intellectual exchange of ideas and wise recognition that heated, but rational debate (aka chatter of the STMs) is what drives him to selflessly devote enormous amounts of his time to an ungrateful remnant of thinking readers.
No, my friend at the forum left after a nasty fight with other staff members caused a break with her minions and the original group. I’m one of her minions. This isn’t about my Irish pal except to say that she is proof to me that sometimes you really can develop true friendships with folks you’ve never seen in person, but managed to actually communicate with on a human level. Since I’d promised to really try to quit smoking that time and had given Nick my word of honor I would not start sneaking cigarettes behind his back rather than admit I’d slipped to him honestly, I’d break a powerful Trust invested in me that I did not want to break. So, I met my Irish cyber friend in an effort to keep that Trust, which was important to me. Over the next weeks and months, our friendship grew off-forum and I know quite a bit about her now.
She is a “true” Irish Catholic and has some really powerful and eye-opening stories first hand from being a 60-something Catholic in Ireland the last several decades. She’s a great go-to for the European viewpoint on things and makes me wonder if all the Irish are as inquisitive and intelligent as she or if she is just an outlier. She is the first person who will jump into some religious-themed anecdote or story-line I blather on about in order to come to a really poignant and well-developed (in my mind) point to my readers (I have a community page where I write stories to entertain my fans — family and local yocals) to tell me that the first premise I use for my argument is wrong, since the European Christians never such-and-such in India/Jamaica/British Isles/South America and so I made an assumption that is WRONG.
She will immediately post a link to whatever website will immediately prove I am wrong and make be either rebuild my argument or delete the whole thing. I never get angry at this: If I am trying to write articles that help people understand how to research and think for themselves, then I need to be able to trust a good friend who understands my goal. I have learned to put great value on her opinions and follow her lines of research to test my own ability to reach a logical conclusion. I trust her to help rather than to harm. There are very few people in my life who deserve the kind of trust that she garners from me. Many people I am supposed to trust have proven themselves to be unworthy of that blind trust, so I give my trust cautiously. Trust, if you consider it for a moment or two, is a really valuable thing to give anyone.
But this isn’t about cyber-friendships or trust. The video she sent is just a visual time lapse mapping of the spread of the Gospel. I am not really sure if that means the spread of Christianity or Bibles in hotel room nightstands. Perhaps by “Gospel” they really mean “Belief System” or something along that line. However, if you are a Bible literalist and think I’m going to hell for making fun of the Gideon Mission then I think you’ve lost your way on the internet highway and stumbled onto the Burning Platform. This is a different kind of burning bush and it is full of monkeys that probably aren’t gonna evolve. Trust me on that one.
No, what I find particularly interesting is the appearance, rapid rise and spread of, and then more rapid decline and disappearance of the Mongols as one of the chosen Belief Systems shown.
Below I have inserted a few frames from the time-lapse provided, chosen to show my point. At around 49 seconds, the Mongols appear (data represents 1204 A.D.)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/marthaqaru/Mongols%201%20begin%2049_zpspgf6ixdw.jpg
Within 30 years (1233 A.D.) the Mongols had spread this much!
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/marthaqaru/Mongols%2030%20years_zpspifosupl.jpg
By the 100 year point, they were poised to take over the “Christian” world.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/marthaqaru/Mongols%20100%20years_zpsicc76plv.jpg
Yet, only 75 years later, they were complete eliminated from the map.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/marthaqaru/Mongols%20175%20years_zpshjvgsbij.jpg
What Stopped Genghis Khan’s Mongol Invasion?
What happened to push back the Mongol onslaught that seemed unstoppable? In just one hundred years, the Mongols went from a small tribe in the almost inaccessible mountains between what we know as China and Russia to holding the largest contiguous land area in history. At the height of their success as a Belief System, the Mongols represented a quarter of the documented population. Poised to take over the world, what happened to hold back the children of Genghis Khan. Could it be that Christianity bonded together and stopped the Mongol invasion? No.
One great underlying message in the breakdown of any belief system is that a belief system’s greatest threat is from within, in my opinion. In the case of the Mongols, it was sibling rivalry as Khan’s heirs couldn’t get along. Or perhaps, because the Mongol invasion really broke down to descendants of Khan bickering over whose was bigger, the message is that petty jealousy and greed always limit human growth and expansion.
And soon, my Irish cyber-friend will either correct me in my thinking or make some strange comment that makes me want to start river dancing with the dogs.
In either case, it is an interesting graphic representation to watch. The Mongols just flashed on and off and caused me to wonder about what really caused them to disappear more quickly than they appeared.
Like the Neanderthals and Celts went poof. Real soon, either the Muslims or the West will go poof.
Ghengis Khan was a driven, uncompromising man. A real bastard, who possessed a fair share of ingenuity, and had some truly astounding generals behind him.
Even worse, he recognized talent externally and was sure to use it well in warfare.
The only thing that saved Europe was A) how poor it seemed externally, and B) the death of Ghengis Khan.
You are right, they were a flash in the pan as a unified entity, but they left their mark on the world. The Mughals of India, the celebrated Yuan dynasty of China, and many more empires were created when the “Mongols” stopped being a recognized body.
“Threat from within.”
Seems reasonable to me, the corruption and perversions of the Roman Catholic church disgusted Martin Luther so much that he was forced to throw down the theological gauntlet.
No mention of Black Plague. That played a significant role in the fallback of the Mongols, collapse of the agricultural production of Central Asia and the subsequent famines (estimates of 60-120 million dead from starvation alone) that drove the final nails in the Mongol coffin.
“What Stopped Genghis Khan’s Mongol Invasion?”
He died (1227), but the Mongol invasions did’nt stop with his death.
Then, Kublai took over the helm of killing, pillaging and the empire prospered. But, he died (1294).
Then Kulug took over – this was the start of the downfall and it took some time for the empire to cease.
The cause: debt, inflation, luxurious lifestyle of the anointed – sound familiar.
Ah, the Black Plague. I knew something was missing.
However, I thought the Plague was an equal opportunity destroyer except for the hygiene conscious Jews.
Great stuff, Mags! What stopped them? Also a great question.
Just some very very minor shit.
1. The Mongols never had a chance to take over the entire world. That if the Western Hemishpere from Canada to Cape Horn. Not sure they could have conquered all of Africa … crossing the Sahara Desert, and them fighting in a thick dense jungle (quite different than the open plains/steppes of Asia).
2. I didn’t agree with the time lapse at the very end, which included Communism … and so red replaced white (Christianity). But, Christianity certainly never disappeared under the Commies. It went underground, and actually got stronger.
3. I thought the AUSTRIANS stopped those chink-bastards at the Gates Of Vienna?!
@kokoda… I suppose I was just wondering out loud and wanted to share the graphic and a few of my rambling thoughts. I knew Genghis died, but wonder how much fighting amongst his subsequent heirs over who was gonna be top dog contributed to the decline.
@Stucky… see? I don’t have to wait for my Irish editor to weigh in. You and the STMs will tell me why I’m wrong. Thanks.
Oh, Maggie, I am not saying you’re wrong.
Your observation ——– ” In the case of the Mongols, it was sibling rivalry as Khan’s heirs couldn’t get along. Or perhaps, because the Mongol invasion really broke down to descendants of Khan bickering over whose was bigger,” ———— is a very valid one, I believe.
It is very similar to the breakup of Rome after Constantine died.
Maggie….I did like your post. I just added some picky details.
More details: Genghis went into Afghanistan (AF) and would enter a major city (forgot the name) and butcher hundreds of thousands. He then demanded tribute from AF major cities. Once the tribute stopped, he went in again and did the same thing.
Kublai went in once that I remember and killed every human and animal except for 1 or seven for them to spread the word.
Neither Genghis nor Kublai had armies stationed in AF – too large and his military resources became limited after all their conquests.
Plague was Asian in origin, Europeans had much lower resistance, far more crowded urban centers, non-existent sanitary systems, etc. so they suffered higher mortality rates from the disease itself, it was the loss of agricultural output and the subsequent famines that killed the largest number of people. That and the fact that no one wants to conquer a graveyard.
All good inputs. I’m yanking your chain, Stucky. And I am NOT referring to this record-breaking hobby of yours Admin told us about recently.
Sheriff Bart stop Mongo 😉
Except the graverobbers and thieves. Which, of course, brings to mind the essential oils of the Bible. Am wondering what your thoughts are on oils?
Sheriff Bart! I laughed.
Maggie,
You have a valuable mentor.
Thank you for the video…
what is happening with your study of psychopathology,
narcissism, and sociopaths-psychopaths?
Can you give us a preview? An abstract? Are you going to publish?
As long as I am asking…may I ask what your Irish Catholic friend predicts
about the present Muslim immigration front?
NOPE…I wish I could use that. The Mr. is quietly livid that I took it
inside the house this winter.
Thanks,
Suzanne
I put my psychotic study of language aside because I noticed I was beginning to try to analyze everything that Nick was saying to me and after I realized he really isn’t that “deep” to try to use words with hidden subliminal meaning on me, I decided I’d better put that article aside for a bit.
Sometimes I wade in too deep.
@Stuck –
“1. The Mongols never had a chance to take over the entire world. That if the Western Hemishpere from Canada to Cape Horn. Not sure they could have conquered all of Africa … crossing the Sahara Desert, and them fighting in a thick dense jungle (quite different than the open plains/steppes of Asia).
2. I didn’t agree with the time lapse at the very end, which included Communism … and so red replaced white (Christianity). But, Christianity certainly never disappeared under the Commies. It went underground, and actually got stronger.
3. I thought the AUSTRIANS stopped those chink-bastards at the Gates Of Vienna?!”
The Mongols couldn’t not effectively take on jungles, their composite bows didn’t do well in the ridiculous humidity, and their cavalry struggled similarly. Its why their conquest of the Indian Subcontinent originally halted at the Indus River.
I think it was less the Austrians who stopped the Mongol advance, and more like European Feudalism that stopped them. Rather than taking towns containing fat loot they were faced with fortresses. While they certainly possessed premier siege technology, they were a long way from home, and Europe is complete covered in forts and castles.
I think if they would have been more focused on conquering instead of looting they would have left a more lasting impression, but the people back home got used to the Free Shit from all the conquests, and when it started to dry up the empire splintered.
PS: Ghengis was the force of personality holding it all together.
Mags
You might find this interesting.
=====================
“The Mongol invasions and their subsequent rule in the lands east of the Euphrates left a legacy of shattered cities, population decline, and overturned technology that undercut the basis for prosperity and success that had sustained the Middle East for five thousand years.”
Population (in millions) for various regions at the beginning of 13th & 14th centuries
Region —————– AD 1200 ——-AD 1300 ——-% Change
China ——————-115.00 ————86.00————–(25.2%) …… () = negative, ie; -25.2%
Korea ——————-4.00 —————3.00—————-(25.0%)
Manchuria————–4.50—————-4.80—————-1.1%
East Turkestan——–2.20—————-2.30—————-4.5%
Iran———————–5.00—————-3.50—————-(30.0%)
Afghanistan————2.50—————-1.75—————-(30.0%)
Iraq———————–1.50—————-1.00—————-(33.3%)
Europe——————58.00—————79.00—————36.2%
India———————86.00—————91.00—————5.8%
=====================
The above is from here —–> http://www.strategypage.com/articles/?target=mongol.htm
They also attribute Mongol defeat largely to Mamluks from Egypt. (News to me!). Check it out … seems reasonable and well documented …. and much too long an article to post here.
Pretty cool!
Pessimistic Chemist… thanks for that input as well. I think this (from you) sums it all up nicely:
I think if they would have been more focused on conquering instead of looting they would have left a more lasting impression, but the people back home got used to the Free Shit from all the conquests, and when it started to dry up the empire splintered.
Thanks Stucky and good to “see” you Rob. Am off to visit my son and see my Yoder family in the upper Ozarks. Have an appointment with a quilter to pick up a masterpiece.
Think quilts are too womany a topic for this group?
I just watched the video again …. looking for One Simple Answer regarding their defeat.
Here’s what I see ….. their Empire was just TOO DAMNED HUGE!! How in the hell does one control/manage an empire that stretches from China to the Caucasus?? Especially back then. Eventually you run out of money and …. people, I think.
Quilts?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Then again ………
[img
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OK. One last post on this topic.
From the link I provided above ………. this is a letter written by the Mongol prince Hulegu Khan and laid before the Egyptian leader, Qutuz.
“From the King of Kings of the East and West, the Great Khan. To Qutuz the Mamluk, who fled to escape our swords. You should think of what happened to other countries … and submit to us. You have heard how we have conquered a vast empire and have purified the earth of the disorders that tainted it. We have conquered vast areas, massacring all the people. You cannot escape from the terror of our armies. Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled … Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then we will kill your children and your old men together. At present you are the only enemy against whom we have to march.”
That mofo is a SERIOUS shit-flinger!!
Pretty good shit you tossed my way! I’ll hold off on the quilts.
Keep in mind that the Mongols, the roman empire, and communism are not religions but methods of ruling. It doesn’t seem to me, from this lovely video, that the Mongols died off any faster than the Romans. When the Romans took it in the shorts they folded like a cheap shirt.
Mongols with bonus Austrian.
[img]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc[/img]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc&nohtml5=False
T4C
Had the Mongols defeated the Egyptian Mamluks it would have almost certainly meant the end of political Islam. Almost makes one wish the Mongols would have won.
I love that Conan quote! In the comments section of that video, this;
“This is an abbreviation of the Genghis Khan quote: ——- “The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.”
what a shitfuk religion
[img
[/img]
It is not widely known that Genghis Khan had a younger brother named Barakis Obahmis Khan who struggled for power with his brother during the rise of the Mongol empire until one day through slick talking around the army bonfires, Barakis convinced the Mongol armies that it was a time for change and he offered them hope that they would not have to fight any more and could return home where he would lead them to a life of prosperity and endless economic growth. The Mongols would not want for anything because Barakis would provide them free healthcare, would ensure their children would be educated and that he would take care of them in their old age. The Mongol people cheered and overthrew the hated Genghis crowning Barakis the leader of all the peoples.
In a short time under Barakis’ rule, and after all of Barakis’ promises turn into lies and deceit, the Mongol empire crumbled and quickly vanished.
History is about to be repeated people, embrace the impending doom. It is déjà vu all over again.
Maggie,
We can’t expect men to appreciate recipes or quilts.
Interesting that women are looking for feminine traits
in men. My man is polite, but after some “analysis”(by me)
of some topic or other, his eyes actually glaze over.
We are plagued (speaking of plagues) by an onslaught
of Beta males. They lost a vital part, so to speak.
We do long for Alpha males. We need them. And,
we also know Alpha men can be quite sentimental.
Go give Nick a hug. And have a good trip. Then send
a pic of the quilt please!
IMHO, Trump is an Alpha male. He is exposing the other
candidates as cowards, the conservatives as cowards and
civilization destroying basterds. No human being is perfect,
some are outright liars and cheats…meet Ted Cruz. The
“conservatives” want more rice bowls. Honesty, not so much.
@Stuck
He killed her? We simply can not! live with these beasts.
Suzanna
The story is rather recent. And, yes, he killed her …. the articles state “in her wedding bed” ….. which is a euphemism meaning — and pardon me for saying it this way — he literally fucked her to death.
err
the siege of Vienna was nearly 200 years later, and it was the Turks of the Ottoman Empire under Suleiman. The Golden Horde might have still been hanging on in Crimea and the North Caucasus, but not a factor