Guest Post by Kurt Schlichter
Kentucky recently became the 16th state to amend its laws to get rid of onerous restrictions on healthy, law-abiding adults bearing arms, conforming its concealed weapons statutes to the Constitution and irritating liberals who prefer that we citizens remain helpless sheep. Some of us channel the Founders and believe it is every eligible citizen’s duty to own the kind of guns liberals label “assault weapons” in order to be able to personally protect themselves, their families, their communities and their Constitution; others just want the option of carrying a .38 at a house of worship or elsewhere in public where evil might manifest. But liberals oppose this natural right. Why? Well, there are only two kinds of people who object to Normal Americans being able to protect their lives and freedom, felons and aspiring tyrants, and it just so happens both of them are key constituencies of the Democrat Party.
The trend in most states is to “shall issue” concealed weapons permits, with a third of the states tossing out even those useless obstacles to free citizens exercising their personal choice when it comes to packing heat. In 2019, Second Amendment is evolving right, with society increasingly recognizing that this essential freedom should not be arbitrarily restricted. Liberals should be all aboard. Remember how liberals keep telling us that our conception of rights is supposed to take changes in society into account? We always hear how the Constitution must evolve when it’s a fake right that Democrats like, as opposed to one that’s actually written in the Bill of Rights. Well, the overwhelming trend lately is for legislatures and governors across the country to democratically enact gun freedom measures, so we need to ask our liberal friends, “Where’s your ‘living Constitution’ now?”
For some reason, gun-grabbing liberals seem to think that the existence of people who want to shoot random civilians should make us want to be less able to defend ourselves. Uh, no. The horrifying New Zealand terrorist attack would usually have drawn universal attacks by liberals on law-abiding Americans and their rights. On the upside, the dishonest and disgraceful slander of fellow Americans that usually accompanies these events was comparatively muted, perhaps because this loser (who should die anonymously, his videos unviewed, his manifesto unread, and his name unspoken) was so transparently attempting to provide everyone with fodder to hate their political opponents.
To rile liberals, he mixed in references to Trump and Candace Owens; to outrage us Normals, he embraced leftism and environmental wackoism. It was a scam to set us at each other’s throats. The proper response to this creep’s crude manipulation is to not pretend that he was motivated by anything other than resentment over his own manifest inadequacies and failures. To hang this idiot’s acts on one’s political opponents for cheesy short-term rhetorical advantage is to play his game; instead, we should come together in the hope that the Kiwis hang that idiot.
But, of course, some leading liberal lights and their gimps could not resist. Fredocon Max Boot blamed Trump for the killing of many Muslims, which is weird because supporting every war in the last two decades that killed Muslims is Max’s jam. Shannon Watts, the Annette Benning of American Beauty of American liberal fascism, gave Mike Bloomberg his money’s worth on Twitter. AOC could not resist *checks notes, shakes head* attacking people for praying for those massacred while praying. Boy, the bloom is sure coming off the rose of that celebutwerp. It’s convenient that she has such a big mouth because she’s always sticking her foot in it. Oh, and Dick Blumenthal (D-Da Nang) had to pipe up too, blaming Trump, but we need to be compassionate and take into account how he suffers from PTSD from not going to Vietnam.
Democrats recently slid a “common sense” gun grab bill through the House that would not have actually prevented any of the massacres we have seen over the years, but would have made you a felon for lending your neighbor a .22. They were also annoyed at an amendment requiring ICE be informed whenever an illegal alien tried to buy a gun, which is a great demonstration of their real objective. It’s not to stop violence, because we Normals are not violent without legitimate cause. It’s to stop us Normals from having a veto over leftist excesses.
Their goal is to slowly chip away at our gun rights until we wake up one day without our weapons living in Great Britain West, where the cops focus on busting dissenting subjects for mean tweets while Normal people can’t walk the streets without getting stabbed or splashed by acid by thugs who know damn well their victims are defenseless. It’s interesting to note that the UK’s ruling class, having been instructed by the voters to leave the EU, have so far declined to do so. And when the referendum is ignored, what will the British people do about it? Nothing. They’ve already submitted. They gave up their guns because civilized people don’t need guns, don’t you know? Of course, when the ruling class tries to sell you “civilization” what they are really peddling is submission. It’s a sad irony, since our recognition of the natural right of the people to keep and bear arms derived from the same right recognized in England during its Age of Testosterone.
Cede a monopoly of force within society to the elite and those wonderful, competent and honest folks will totally respect you and work on your behalf. Also, here’s a profitable high-speed rail line from Bakersfield to Fresno I’ll sell you cheap. Just don’t look at the Russiagate soft coup behind the mirror! The fact is that an armed citizenry is a true backstop to tyranny, an obstacle to total control over society by a small elite that seeks unbridled power. Will we ever have to use it? We hope not, but think of it as a fire extinguisher for fascism – better to have it lying around than not to have it when you need it.
This, along with the joy of rubbing your noses in the fact that they can strip you of the dignity that comes with being a citizen and not a subject, is the real reason the urban coastal left is so hellbent on taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding Americans and leaving guns in the hands of people they control. Remember, the left is pro-guns. It’s just anti-you having guns too.
The existence of murderous creeps, combined with a rising crime rate and the media beaming us scenes of oppression in Venezuela, where those dummies compounded their foolishness in electing socialists by allowing themselves to be disarmed, reinforce the imperative of American citizens remaining armed and unruly. I write about an America split apart into red and blue nations in my novels People’s Republic, Indian Country and Wildfire, and in my novels one of the main reasons the country splits apart is an attempt by the left to disarm Normal Americans in an effort to ensure its permanent hegemony.
My books are fiction, but every day I get messages from readers pointing out how my predictions of liberal perfidy that seemed outrageous when I typed them are coming true. If the left wants chaos, an attempt to disarm us is the way to get it. We will never back down from our absolute and Creator-given right to defend our lives and freedom because disarmed, we stop being free citizens and become neutered serfs. And we’re not cool with that.
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal
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I try to explain this shit to random Aussies. I just get blank looks back.
The one thing I do have trouble with is that where the US has 30,000+ gun deaths a year (almost 40,000 last year), and Oz a relative handful in comparision. Australia, at roughly 8% of the population of the US, has around 250 gun deaths per year. Let that fucking shit sink in and get back to me. I will do the math for you – that is under 10% of the US rate by population. Even if you take out blacks, the Aussie rate will still be around 1/6 that of the US. The Aussie suicide rate is around 40% that of the US, as a side comment to these figures.
All those guns in the US are not making citizens safer NOW, if Australia is a benchmark. They simply are not safer now. And that is the fact of the matter. If there is a civil war, or a tyrant needing overthrowing, that is a different thing. Boy, would you ever need guns then.
But the hundreds of thousands of people killed in the US by guns in the last decade alone I cannot explain away to my Aussie acquaintances. It is simply too incomprehensible for me, even though I entirely agree with the article. I am torn on this to the extreme.
So what needs to change? Do laws need to be implemented so that every single person in the US above say the age of 16 carries a hogleg everywhere? Something needs to be done. What? And that is not an empty question.
Because losing 300,000 to 400,000 Americans to guns each decade is total, unmitigated, fucking bullshit of the highest order. And I shit you not. That is like an extra 250,000 deaths that should not be happening. Every. Fucking. Decade.
So, how will it be stopped?
Most years 70% of Gun related murders are from GANGS. So why let gangs continue to destroy big cities, that’s where the great bulk of murders come from. Your stat on gun deaths include SUICIDES, which can happen without guns, it sometimes makes it easier that’s all. The US has a suicide problem, about 30k of those deaths are sucides. So the actual murder rate w/ guns is about 10k per year, down from what it used to be in the 90’s when gang related murders were even worse.
Japan basically has no guns and has a huge suicide problem. Having drugged up hopeless people, or serious drug addicts in a nihilistic society certainly contributes to the high number of suicides. The rest is that some people just have really bad brain chemistry, so suicides will always continue.
So your data is flawed, its the liberal bullshit argument throwing suicides into murder, which are two separate problems. Just like 90% of all deaths with guns happen with handguns, yet they go after rifles all the time.
I never see anyone seriously talk about destroying the gang culture in America, there is a reason places like Chicago have horrible murder stats despite draconian gun “laws”, the gangs there do most of the killing. And how will murder be stopped? It won’t be, humans kill eachother and have forever, at best its slowed down a bit, but big city gangs and nihilism and teens raised on anti-depressants that actually increase homicidal/suicidal thoughts-actions aren’t helping a bit.
By they way over 700k murders, home invasion, rapes, etc are stopped by citizen gun owners on an average year that are reported to the FBI. So those guns save a ton of misery, despite some evil or messed up people creating misery as well.
Most years gang relayed murders are around 2,000. Pedal your bullshit simewhere else. Here are some actual facts instead of bullshit. When you start off with a lie, it undermines every ither word you say.
Re suicides, again that is bullshit. Around half of all suicides are by gun. There were around 22 thousand suicides by gun, leaving around 18,000 deaths by gun not suicide.
https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-gun-deaths-levels-cdc-2017
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
Facts are your friend. Lies just get kicked in the nuts.
Fuck you first off for calling me a liar. I was going off of memory of CDC facts for the past twenty years. I wasn’t picking one year and apparently 2017 was a particularly bad year. On average what I’ve read for a long time is gun deaths on average are around the low 30’s most years. Guns used in murder hover around 10k most years, and suicides were around 20k per year. You bitch about one year, go ahead and go back and look at the gun related deaths/sucicdes for the past 20years. The gang data I read in multiple places previously, and it was noted as a rough estimate b/c so many gang related murders aren’t vs. other gang members. Little kids and other people accidentally killed in drive by type shootings, or gang rituals that involve murdering people. The estimates I had seen before had that around 60-70% of the murders.
But if you actually go back and look at the data over a long period of time you will see that suicides were around 20k each year, and murders totall were in the 10-11k range. So again fuck you, I don’t have time to scour old data points, need to go to work. Its clear you have your mind made up anyway and are quick to call out lies, by cherry picking one year of data. I was talking in generalities and the data overall supports them. Last time I ever respond to you, have a good life.
Check your facts first. Try https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/
US is 189 of 193 for murder in countries if you remove the top 5 cities in the US for murder. In alphabetical order as they all vie for the top spot one year or another. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Washington DC
Your gun laws suck. An Aussie telling Americans whats best for them. What a BS concept. Just goes to show, what opinions come from Australia, needs to stay in Australia.
Australia Reveals More Than 250,000 Illegal Guns Exist, Calls for Gun Amnesty
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/21/australia-admits-gun-buyback-failure-amnesty/
What is your point? 250 deaths vs 40,000. Get that through your fucking head. How do you argue that? “Your gun laws suc” is not an argument.
Gun facts
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
Statistics courtesy of U. S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.
The above is just a fact.
Now, the above meant nothing until I did the statistics shown below on guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (Yes, that’s 80 million)
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.
Statistics courtesy of FBI.
The above is also fact.
So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners!
Remember, guns don’t kill people, doctors do!
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN . . . but, almost everyone has at least one doctor.
This means you are over 9,000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as by a gun owner!!!
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat! We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of control.
Out of concern for the public at large . . . I have withheld the statistics on lawyers
for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention!
Sure it is, it is actually as good as argument as any, in fact I can shorten it up.
No.
Llpoh is more American than you are. Really. He is a true “Native American” (Injun) … who very recently relocated to Australia.
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Is that how you normally operate — judging an entire CONTINENT based on the opinion of ONE person??
Whatever you do, don’t shit us. None of that shit matters. Freedom ain’t pretty sometimes. Get over it. What I want to know is, out of those 300,000-400,000 what “kinds” of people are getting killed.
Half are black. That leaves 150,000 to 200,000 not black. All kinds of people get killed when you are talking numbers tgat high.
Who killed the non blacks? There is your answer.
US had shootings with 11,300 deaths in 2018…don’t know where you got those ridiculous numbers so I quit reading your post after the initial, hugely-flawed premise. There were 21,000 suicides using guns….. of the 11,000 gun related shooting deaths, 8,900 were directly tied to gang-related activity.
Only 2200 deaths for a population of over 350 million people from 2018 ( many of those were also gangsters but shooting innocents instead of eachother).
White’s gun violence per capita would actually place the US far down the list of gun deaths ( by assault)… your numbers are the same the left uses to skew the reality. It is restrictions against white gun owners that the leftists always target.
I posted the link to the gang center where the gang related deaths are a couple thousand a year. I also posted a link where there were 40,000 deaths. You got, you know, any links to actual facts?
Plus, why does Oz not have that problem? Gee, I dunno.
Whatever you do, don’t shit us. None of that shit matters. Freedom ain’t pretty sometimes. Get over it. What I want to know is, out of those 300,000-400,000 what “kinds” of people are getting killed
Gun death in America is suicide, 2/3 of all gun deaths are suicide, the rest is Black on Black. Disarmament of the rest based on those stats can only be for the purposes Kurt alluded to, totalitarian control.
From the mouth of the totalitarians themselves:
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/
Of course, that’s just an opinion, not a fact. For example, Admin is now a gun owner. How do you KNOW he’s not safer now? Well, you can’t know. But, I will tell you this with certainty — Admin surely FEELS safer (just ask him), and it gives him peace of mind. That’s worth something.
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Those are just raw numbers devoid of context. For example, if Bubba’s comment is correct, that “70% of Gun related murders are from GANGS” — then what you believe is a serious problem is far less serious. In fact, I’d like to see even more gun deaths — until the number of gangs in America is reduced to Zero.
Stuck – the gang numbers posted are bullshit. I covered that above. The number is a couple thousand a year.
But the other point is indisputable – all those guns, and the US has the highest murder rate in the developed world by a long way, with a suicide rate to match. The US is not safer, for whatever reason, now, with all the guns out there. The US has the most per capita guns in the world, and it has the highest gun death rates in the developed world.
Is it a coincidence? What can be done to eliminate the gun death rate?
I suspect it has at least partially something to do with that in other developed countries guns are likely to be in the hands, generally, of smart, responsible folk [Admin for instance) while in the US there are millions of idiots with them (new buddy AM for instance).
“The US has the most per capita guns in the world, and it has the highest gun death rates in the developed world. Is it a coincidence? What can be done to eliminate the gun death rate?”
Even if true, it is totally irrelevant. Now, it is a fact that if one wishes to commit murder, a gun is a very efficient way to do so. It is also a fact that if one wishes to defend oneself from criminals (either private or governmental) a gun is a very efficient way to do it. Still, take away the guns and both attackers and victims will try to find some other tool. Actually, take away the guns and the victim would be put at a greater disadvantage than the attackers. After all, most attackers are young, strong and fast, while many of their victims are older, weaker and slower — which is why they have been chosen to be victims.
Anyway. looking only at just GUN deaths, as opposed to all all murders, is a logical failure. Let me illustrate. Suppose there were a drive to stop rapes. Someone observes that 90% of rapists wear black shoes. (Not unusual. Black shoes are often bought and worn because they match most clothing, and work just as well as any other color when it comes to walking or running, and are so common that they are not an identifying characteristic.) Wow! Black-shoe-rape is 90% of all rape! Let’s outlaw black shoes! So you outlaw black shoes, and suddenly the rate of black-shoe-rape drops to 2% instead of 90%. Other countries still have their 90% rate, but you have dropped your country’s rate of black-shoe-rape by a factor of 45! Hurrah! Of course just as many women are getting raped as before, but at least it is not that horrible black-shoe-rape. Now the rapists are wearing different shoes.
You can’t simply compare “gun deaths in county A” with “gun deaths in country B”. If you really want to show that guns and the lack of gun control laws, in and of themselves, are the reason why people get murdered, you need to compare areas where guns are freely available and carried, to other areas where guns are strictly controlled and regulated, and you need to do it in areas which have similar demographics and cultures — and you need to look not just at gun murders, but at all murders. The problem with that approach is that when such studies are made, they tend to show that the real reasons for a high murder rate have very little to do with guns and a whole lot to do with reasons which are, uh, how shall we say, “politically unpopular.”
And by the way, when comparing death rates, be sure to include not just year over year counts, but also the every-couple-of-generations disarmed death toll. Make sure you include 70 million disarmed Chinese peasants under Mao, the 5 million disarmed Ukranians under Stalin, the 10 million disarmed Congolese under King Leopold, the who-knows-how-many disarmed under Hitler, the 100 or so million Indians under the Brits, and the many, many defenseless Abos slaughtered in Australia. Don’t forget the unarmed women and children at Wounded Knee.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf
In case you missed it
Check your facts first. Try https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/
US is 189 of 193 for murder in countries if you remove the top 5 cities in the US for murder. In alphabetical order as they all vie for the top spot one year or another. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Washington DC
Hey Wolverine! “Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Washington DC”
I wish I could remember what it is, but there is something… something that all those cities have in common, some mutual factor that stands out in each of those five cities. Think, think, think! It’s not per capita gun ownership, or lax gun laws… Dang, I wish I could think what it could possibly be!
Speaking of bullshit, the US doesn’t have the highest murder rate in the “developed” world, not even close. According to the UN the US is 90th, yes 90th, in per capita intentional homicide rate. Hell, Mexico’s rate is over 3x that of the US, and virtually all of South and Central America have higher rates also. So where do you get this BS that the US has the highest rate? — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
BTW, Switzerland has the 3rd highest gun ownership per capita in the world, and yet they are 207th in the world rankings, and their rate is less than 60% of (#189) Australia’s!!
Still say it is the guns? the data does not back you up.
and that link to the DOJ you provided? Their data collection is basically by survey, ended in 2012, and was done during the Obama administration. You know, the same DOJ of “fast and furious” fame. Yeah, they’re reliable. Just sayin’.
I see no reason why you would feel the need to explain anything to them. Who cares what Australians think about this? Not me. If they don’t like our 2A then they do not have to come here, they can stay on their “safe” little continent, content in knowing that they allowed themselves (the law abiding) to be disarmed and neutered.
I can barely bring myself to type this but I viewed the shooting video in NZ several times and there’s something very wrong. The gunman starts with 9 rounds from a shotgun at as best as I can see (pixelated video) on 2 guys just inside the doorway. Throughout the video he walks over them several times. One on his back with portion of a white shirt showing has no evidence of blood and there is no blood pooling around either man nor is there any evidence of damage to the walls, etc from the rounds (admittedly, hard to see) . In fact you don’t see any blood pooling or obvious trauma around any of the, maybe 5-6 victims you can see. You can hear a lot of voices but not any screaming. I could go on but won’t because it would be too long. Something is wrong, vey wrong with this. To view it yourself (the address is in 2 parts) go to server2. vid max (with the usual ending)
It’s about violence, not guns. If guns are banned, that doesn’t mean violence is over, it just means the criminals will find another creative way to inflict damage on their intended victims.
It’s like saying if you take guns away from depressed people, you will end suicide. No, the tool is not the source of depression and sans a firearm, another means of ending ones life is figured out.
I don’t have statistics for Australia, but getting rid of guns from citizens only provides a safe environment for criminals to use their illegal weapons to commit crimes against an unarmed populace.
I hope you never have to experience this in your cities, where a deranged lunatic cuts loose with his illegal weapon(s) against a defenseless neighborhood, until some time later when the police finally show up.
Well, Aussie gun laws are much more restrictive than n the US, but those crims are not out slaughtering folk. At least not yet and not in decades. Do not know why. So your narrative fails.
As I have said before,”How many people must die before I will give up firearms?”
All of them.
I’d still would want to hunt with mine, so ah, never.
Alot of gun related deterrence probably not even cited in stats anyway. My wife and I lived in the city years ago and had two sketchy looking younger guys trying to kick our door in at 430am. We lived in an house apartment, literally 2 miles from the police station. Fortunately the house was ancient and hold a really old solid oak door and a deadbolt and they weren’t able to kick it in, despite kicking it at least 4-5 times. They were talking outside our kitchen window about how to break in as I opened the window with my shotgun. Didn’t have time to put the screen out, but screamed WTF, and police are on their way. My wife was on the phone with the cops. They took one look at me with the shotgun pumped once and they ran for it. Police showed up about 8minutes later, despite being 2 miles from the place on a busy main road.
I didn’t bother telling them about the gun etc, they said there were break ins in the area going on in the early morning into sheds/garages in the past few weeks. I gave them a description (basically two sketchy looking mid-20’s white dudes that looked strung out on drugs) and that was it. That was also when my wife became a big fan of me owning a shotgun, and that sped up our urgency to get the fuck out of the city. I’m guessing there are quite a few similar things that happen, that don’t show up in any stats anwhere, that the mere presence of a gun causes folks to run. Thankfully they did. Hopefully that is the only time in my life I’ll ever use a gun beyond hunting or target shooting. But if that door went down like most will if kicked in the right spot, it would have been a whole different story. Not sure if I would have got the gun in time either, since I was still half asleep as I woke up with the first kick. But now that I live 20mins away froms state police, I’m pretty sure there is zero chance of the police ever actually stopping anything crazy that would happen, even in the city nearby it took nearly 10mins and they were long gone.
An Armed Citizenry Is A Free Citizenry, Which Is Why Liberals Want You Disarmed
Liberals only?
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/13/lindsey-graham-seeks-incentivize-states-adopt-gun-confiscation-laws/#
We have a lot more people die in transportation deaths. Guns keep us free. I remembered thinking this when they showed the Arab spring and people being shot by officials. It wouldn’t have happened here.
Its the person, not the inanimate object that is the problem.
Gundeaths roughly equivalent to road accident deaths. Not a lot more, roughly equivalent.
And?
And nothing. Just correcting the record.
You got any ideas, or you just hovering around like a bad smell as usual? I noticed your what kinds of people comment. The human kind is the anser, and I would prefer far fewer of them die by gun. I am an old softy that way.
LL,
stop shitting all over this article. You said you were going to shit us not. But here you are taking a big fat shit on freedom. Americans are unique. You want Americans to relinquish their uniqueness, their heritage, their constitution and bill of rights?
What are you, a liberal or something?
Bullshit from an anti gunner. Roughly 4,000 people are killed in Car crashes every year in Texas.
Yahsure – if it is the person, I am still looking as to why Oz has a fraction of the deaths?Even levelling for a certain demographic, Oz rate of gun deaths is a fractionof the US rate.
Blacks in Oz not the same as Blacks in USA. So they are different demographics.
Our blacks are even stupider than yours.
Stats get skewed…just look up US traffic fatalities per year. Then, compare traffic fatalities to firearm fatalities–no one is banning driving. The distractions in the drivers seat due to “smart” phones in the hands of idiots behind the wheel sure seems evident when states begin enacting laws regarding smart phone use while driving, and compounded with too many gadgets in the cockpit.
If road deaths were twenty times higher in the US than in every other develoed nation, would that be ok?
So, to summarize so far, the arguments are:
1) suicides do not count. Why not? Oz suicides are a fraction of those if the US per capita.
2) it is the gangs! The numbers being used are not supported by the facts, and I have posted links where you can find real facts. And why do gangs not count?
3) i do not care how many die, muh guns! Mature attitude right there.
So,, again the numbers:
40,000 total deaths by gun
22,000 suicides
18,000 non-suicide deaths
Half the deaths would be black
About 2,500 would be gang related.
All of those numbers are horrific. They are horrible.
I understand guns. I began toting them about the time I could walk. And I shit you not. I would never want to gove them up. No where have I suggested doing so.
But that in no way addresses the appalling loss of life in the US that is unique to it compared to every other developed nation on earth. It is a national scourge.
That is the isue. Trying to discount blacks, gangs, suicides, whatever as though those lives have zero value is ridiculous.
40,000 lives were lost via gun last year in the US. What can be done to stop that?
Not one person is even attempting to address that issue, best I can tell.
Muh guns! Is not a solution to the death toll. What is? It really does need to stop, somehow.
Stay your ass in Australia. Your kind is not welcome in America. The only reason you think that government is the solution is because you think freedom is the problem.
FBI: As Gun Sales Soared, Violent Crime Fell. Again.
The FBI this month released the 2014 edition of Crime in the United States, and it revealed that the estimated number of reported violent crimes decreased 0.2 percent when compared with 2013. And the estimated number of property crimes decreased 4.3 percent from
2013 levels.
Homicides with firearms in 2014 were down 3.9 percent on a year-over-year basis. Consistent with previous years of this ongoing work, the vast majority of these murders were committed with handguns, although all categories of gun murders were lower. Rifles of all kinds were involved in just 3 percent of gun murders in 2014, lower than the number of deaths attributable to knives, blunt objects, and even fists or feet.
While the one-year numbers may not look that dramatic, they are nonetheless important because they serve to illustrate the long-term, 20-year downward trend in crime in the United States is continuing.
Using NSSF-adjusted National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) data over a ten-year period since 2005, the best proxy we have for firearms sales, we see a 74.1 percent increase in background checks even as the violent crime fell 16.2 percent. The 15-year trend is even more dramatic, showing an 81.8 percent increase in NICS numbers even as violent crime fell 18.2 percent.
Put simply, more firearms in the hands of the mostly law-abiding American population have not yielded an increase in crime.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/murder
http://www.nssfblog.com/the-fbi-stats-are-in-crime-in-the-u-s-fell-again-in-2014/
Ama – you are new here I gather. You have no idea what my kind are, and what I think. I go where I please as a fucking rule. Little shits like you cross the street when I pass by to avoid me. Last little shit that tried to tell me where I can and cannot go in person is missing teeth. Dicks like you that think they speak for an entire nation are lower than whale shit.
To address the rest if your post, crime rates are indeed down, if reports can be believed. However, you do not address the gross number of 40, 000 deaths by gun. Or thie fact that US homicide rates are many multiples of that of any other advanced nation.
You’re not that little feminized twerp David Hogg are you?
You should have your T-levels checked by a doctor soon.
AM – nope, I am the crazy injun that shits bigger than you. You are being stupid. I suspect it is genetic. You would not be from the Appalachians now would you?
“To address the rest if your oost ….”
if = of …. in Australian, apparently.
oost = post …. in Australian, apparently.
Translated; “To address the rest of your post ….”
Stuck
Do you want to set up the TBP NCAA pool or should I?
Where is Indiana? Hahahahaha!
Fuck you tomahawk boy.
Show some goddamned respect for my Hoosiers. We’re in the NIT!!! hoo ah
You have enough on your plate.
I’ll get to it. Today.
It is fucking late here, so bloo me, Stump.
Am – you do not know who I am, what my background is, where I come from, what I have done, what I think. You should get a clue before you shoot your mouth off. You are assuming much and you are assuming wrong.
Llpoh, an AMERICAN (see above post), has been on this platform for 10 years. He has been a valuable and solid contributor during that time, and is respected by Admin, myself, and all the other regulars.
You’re a Newbie. Try showing a little decency and respect. Newbies that don’t do so, almost always never last.
Please read and familiarize yourself with an article titled — “OFFICIAL TBP GUIDE: 10 Commandments for NEWBIES” — at the link below.
Should be a prerequisite for clearance to post on this site.
Just an opinion.
Plus, that idea about IQ test prereq., that even Admin has hinted at implementing.
Not sure how that could be mandated. Even possible?
Alas, I’ve tried to abide by those guideposts generally, in the Newbie Rules.
Ironic, though, that even BDR’s with seniority occasionally get their undies bunched, re: down thumbs and perceived failures to pay homage.
Respect is a 2 way street, even if one of the pedestrians is a funny Lil yapper dog, even if not a studious history wizard, or a mathematics savant.
Every dog likes to run. But,
New members of the pack, and yappers unable to support their opinions with facts get trampled, or chased away. Carry on.
I see from where you got your numbers Llpoh but do not understand why you would go for secondary sources.
Try here…
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls
Then let me know of the source of discrepancy between your numbers and these.
Perhaps I have not yet had enough coffee.
Da P
Da – those stats are a bit old. Feel free to post current ones. Hell, the ones I am posting may be off. But unlike some above, I can actually link to what I have said are the numbers.
Llpoh –
ALL the stats are a bit old as it takes gubmint drones a long time to massage the data. Here’s where I take issue though…
“There were around 22 thousand suicides by gun,
leaving around 18,000 deaths by gun not suicide.”
But the data link that I provided earlier indicates about 9,200 murders by firearm in 2009, decreasing to 8,454 by 2013. So, I have a problem with the gross number of murders implied in your comment.
Subsequent review of data available, and not of this quality, does not indicate a reversal of trend but rather its continuation. And we all know that had the rate been able to have demonstrably risen then that would be trumpeted far and wide.
Whether the remainder of fatalities is by suicide or accident, a death is a death and tragic.
I do not see any “pro-active” means to eliminate either without increasing risks of mass murder by people who then hold all the guns either by virtue of being badge holders or warlords. And, you know, there is a lot of history to show that is the station that the “train of gun safety” inevitably arrives.
Here is the latest FBI data that I could find but, as with all Fed stats, remember that they are susceptible to revision.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
The downward trend did reverse in 2015 and by 2017-end hovered just below 11,000. Still way short of 18,000.
Da P
You have fallen into a trap of your own making and demanding we come along. Our solution to gun violence is completely rational: get armed ourselves.
For some reason this short circuits
you, likely because the way you have framed the discussion only to allow for disarmament as a solution.
That is the plan of the totalitarians for disarmament, frame the inquiry in a way that only allows for their “solution”.
America has always been a violent place and guns have always been a solution to that violence, it’s that simple.
You want complicated, address the real murders at Murder Inc. and their 700 billion dollar murder preparation allowance. Talk to me about disarmament after you have tackled that one, disarm them.
Ha ha ha ha, funny how there is NEVER discussion about disarming the State.
Why?
Otto – if you can point to anywhere I said disarm anyone, please point it out. As one thought I in fact mentioned arming everyone, but given allthe shit going down already, I doubt that woukd work.
Fair enough. Like you, I personally will take my and my families safety as my responsibility and arm myself and them. It’s that or trust the government, right? And the only way the government can guarantee our safety is through totalitarian control of just about everything, or they can’t guarantee jack shit.
Otto – I am beginning to think that it may be as simple as there are simply too many morons with guns. And I mean real morons – low IQ types you would not let push a broom, but they can get all manner of guns. I would love to know the stats. But I seem to recall that the average IQ in prisons is very low. It is unlikely a coincidence. Letting true idiots have guns may be unwise. Not sure what can be done about it. Testing, verbal and actual shooting? Dunno.
I cannot argue with any of that including what to do about it. Thanks for playing, always a good time.
You ask why there is such a difference in rates/violent behaviors of the US vs. Oz….That is a very interesting question and I don’t have the answer..I can tell you that here in Calif..there are voting materials in over 100 languages and there are many places I have been where ,as an english speaking white christian male, I was the odd one and seemingly out of place ..Whole lot of salad bowl and no melting pot here..Does not foster a trust your neighbor sort of kumbyah…
Maybe you don’t get the fucking point about removing the rights to legal property and self defense from responsible people who aren’t to blame for the irresponsible acts of others.
Taking the labor and property of one group for the benefit of others who haven’t earned it is tantamount to redistributive theft, intrusive on the free will of good people who should have a choice to give, or not to give, based on moral and merit. Apply the same rule to those who feel entitled to the productive labors of citizens without being a citizen themselves and maybe it will sink in that this a reason why progressives, socialists, and communists are despised. Altruism and human nature are at odds and that will never change.
Ed – you cannot be talking to me. What on earth majes you think I do not get the point.
That’s true. No one has actually addressed the issue. BUT, neither have you.
So, what IS the solution, or potential solution(s)? (I ask that respectfully, not sarcastically or anything else.)
Me too. One possible suggestion, truly, no kidding, is to arm everyone. Also, maybe make gun classes mandatory at school. Also, it may be necessary – here is the first time I have mentioned restrictions, by the way – to keep people with IQs below a certain range from having guns. Say 85. Or if they are too stupid to pass a driving written exam. Would be interesting to know the IQ stats on who died, by whom, etc.
Also, maybe a national service year might be considered, where basic skills in many areas are taught – guns, tools, equipment, etc., like in Switzerland, Finland I believe, and others. Not sure I would really back it, just an idea.
Gun safes? Stop welfare forcing certain undesirables to work? Stop illegal immigration?
I do not have the answer. But 40,000 deaths a year cannot be tollerated in perpetuity.
Good answers.
A nation where McDonald’s grows bigger year after year, where people spend forty fucking dollars on 12 ounces of vegetables (Balance of Nature), where the majority of high school grads can’t do 7th grade math, where the majority of people are glued like zombies to their I-phones, and on and on and on ………. I agree with you assessment why there are so many gun deaths; too many truly Dumbfuks!!”
==========
Glad you mentioned the Swiss. As part of their National Defense, I believe EVERY family is required to be armed!!
” Switzerland hasn’t had a mass shooting since 2001, when a man stormed the local parliament in Zug, killing 14 people and then himself. The country has about 2 million privately owned guns in a nation of 8.3 million people. In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country’s overall murder rate is near zero.”
Now … I know they are a homogeneous nation, much smaller than us, blah blah blah. But, still; a near zero murder rate?? Wow.
https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2
Stuck – that is my point. If every other developed nation has a fraction of the gun deaths, what the fuck is going on in the US with all the deaths, and why cannot it be significantly changed? Because the pain is substantial, equivalent to total US losses in WW2 every decade.
Llpoh
Diversity being pushed too close together.?
OT Stuck. Thought you might be interested in this.
An Hour of Light and Sound a Day Might Keep Alzheimer’s at Bay
Playing a flashing white light and a trilling sound reversed signs of Alzheimer’s in mice. Researchers are now trying it in humans
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/an-hour-of-light-and-sound-a-day-might-keep-alzheimers-at-bay/
MIGHT be interested? heh heh
“Researchers are now trying it in humans” —- Yup, and Ms Freud is one of those humans in the clinical trial.
Thanks for the article (I haven’t seen it).
” But 40,000 deaths a year cannot be tollerated in perpetuity.”
If all the proposed alternatives are even worse, then yes, it can be tolerated.
Good suggestions at the top. We don’t live in that society anymore so it’s completely out of the question, but it would improve the crime situation if every swinging dick was walking around armed.
Stucky, LLPOH and others,
The solution is simple actually….
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DK0LLaybEuzA&ved=2ahUKEwijnriSl4zhAhVLzlkKHWqVDecQwqsBMAJ6BAgEEAg&usg=AOvVaw10xSrsmifJ2wUUFrJShPjx
So how about this answer: piss off in Australia and never mind how we Americans choose to conduct ourselves. We are tired of people, any people, telling us how to conduct ourselves. You did the right thing moving to Australia. Thank you. Now please excuse yourself from what is OUR argument. Otherwise enjoy many of your comments.
Steve – I come and go as I please. I am Native American, so in a way more American than you, and I will say whatever fucking thing I want, subject to Admin’s benevolence. I have a lot of family in the States still, and I have a very vested interest in this. Americans love to put their dicks all over the world, yet object to anyone returning the favor. Too funny.
I admire your spunk. Just because your ancestors may or may not have stepped foot on this continent first doesn’t make you special. You sure didn’t just sprout like a tree, and we don’t know each other. You can spout off all you want, as can I and I would fight for your right to do so. I am glad that being so conflicted on the subject of firearms that you left. I have no such conflicts as I know something for sure: you and I are going to die. If they took off all the warning labels and didn’t mandate all the safety shit, the stupid would sooner die off and we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. Who cares how many die? I care more about how they live
I think I understand you well enough to know that you are genuine in your concerns, but I also know that once you get revved up in a shit-fling, all bets are off.
I don’t count suicides because people who want to kill themselves will find a way. The gun doesn’t account for it, the desire does, so scratch them. Second, the gun crimes of the criminal class- and that’s probably 98% of all shooting deaths after suicides-can’t be reasoned with and while your argument that they have value to someone, to the law abiding citizen they are a threat and as such their extra judicial removal isn’t something to mourn in the way innocent lives ought to be. I’m cold that way.
But for the sake of argument let’s say everyone who dies because of a gunshot wound is valuable, that their existence is as meaningful to our nation as a peace loving philanthropist. In a country of 350 million people, 18,000 is not even a statistical anomaly. And with almost twice as many guns as people it strikes me as one of the most well disciplined populations to have every lived on Earth.
Which brings us back to the real issue which has NOTHING to do with preventing gun deaths/injuries to the American citizenry, and EVERYTHING to do with disarming only the law abiding portion of the population so that the political elites can do what they have always done every single time they have ever gotten the upper hand and that’s mass murder away the portion of the population they don’t like.
Damn, you’ve just been Hard Scrabbled!!!
So, now, LLPOH, which stands for (L)ife (L)iberty and the (P)pursuit (O)f (H)appiness is ANTI-LLPOH?
Damn, I feel like I just got Hard Scrabbled also.
Hsf –
1) the suicide rate is almost treble Oz’s for instance. A prime reason is likely that guns are easily available and are very effective. It is generally accepted that the availablity of guns does indeed attribute to the rate. Other methods are not so effective and often fail. Many people do not find other ways. You can look up the research on it. Saying that something is true – that they will find another way – and having be true are not the same. If there were no guns in the US, then the suicide rate would likely be far, even vastly lower.
2) I still have not recommended restrictions, other than maybe of definable idiots. People keep saying it. Even sounds like you might be saying it.
3) you talk like 98% of gun crimes are killing only criminals. That is by no means true. Not at all. Criminals do the killing, by definition, but both criminals and innocents do the dying. It is absolutely not just criminals killing criminals. As someone mentioned, there are many hundreds of thousands of gun crimes prevented by people having guns. That in itself indicates that criminals are seeking out non-criminals in huge numbers.
I would have to look up the stats, but given 2.5k out of 18,000 were gang related, then that leaves a huge percent of the deaths were likely innocent. Your logic is very faulty there. I cannot imagine you are cold to the deaths of innocent ocent people. You will in no way be able to back up that figure, because on any logical examination it cannot be true. Numbers like this I am good at, beyond anyone I have ever met, and there is no way that what you have said re the 98% being anywhere near accurate. Hell, just spouses killing spouses would destroy that 98% figure.
4) accidental deaths account for over 5% of non-suicides alone. All many of people die by gun accidently. Including children. That alone wipes out your 98% figure.
You may well be right re the reason that govt want to limit guns. But so far, in advanced nations, mass murder of civilians is not taking olace, even where guns are severely limite. So not sure when the “always” kicks in, but eventually it may. But as I said, you may be right. I tend to think so.
Llpoh
CDC claims that 80% of gun deaths are gang related. In 2010 the number was almost 9,000, not the 2,500 you suggest. Just to clarify, fact-wise.
You may be right, maybe suicide with a firearm has an effect on the success rate, but that has to do with the lethality of the means. Most people who attempt to OD, a much, much higher number of suicide attempts in aggregate, fail because they’re too stupid/depressed/out of their mind to do the correct weight to dosage calculations. A gun to the temple eliminates a lot of the fudge factor, hence higher success rate.
This part caught my attention-
“…the suicide rate (of the USA) is almost treble Oz’s for instance. A prime reason is likely that guns are easily available and are very effective.”
Correlation is not causation as you have pointed out in the past. It could be just as likely that it is a 300% higher level of alienation, isolation, misdiagnosis of mental problems, misapplication of anti-anxiety/anti-psychotic pharmaceuticals, etc. New Zealand is still extremely homogeneous compared to the US and evidence exists across the entire globe that suicide rates are far higher in areas with diverse ethnic populations.
Anyway, great arguments as always. Too bad they don’t give us a crack at fixing things for awhile. Couldn’t get much worse.
HSF –
To summarize, I see two serious issues with what you are saying. First, what you say re suicides seems unlikely to be correct, and flies in the face of all research in the area.
Re the 98%, I understand that you seem to be saying that portion of non-suicides are criminals, which may be a misreading, but if that is a correct understanding of your position, then it is certain that that 98% figure is incorrect., and majorly so.
I believe you would be unable to defend those positions using published data or research/analysis of scholars.
I was wrong about percentage. I meant to say 9,800 (80% of all gun deaths OTHER than suicide in 2010. The numbers are higher now as the murder rate has gone up) I corrected it in another post and posted the CDC data to back it up.
Here it is again-
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf
And I have no idea if I’m right about the lethality/mental issue/isolation/social ills cause for suicides by any means, it’s just a couple of factors you hadn’t considered and which- at least for me- would present a greater motivation to kill myself rather than readily available firearms. I admit, I’m not the typical American either so I just don’t know. I do know that the US has a much higher overall incidence of people seeking that rememdy to their problems than just about any other country on Earth, so it’s definitely something related to our system.
Llpoh, HSF –
Now both of you are going to draw the conclusion that I am perhaps a bit “Spergie” is what I think HSF has called it. (Yep. So?)
Long story short, I have a head for data retention and subsequent use thereof when I have a quiet moment. Today was not that moment but I have finally had a chance to draw breath.
Back a few years, I took a walking holiday ’round the Dingle Peninsula to clear my head. Bumped into an Aussie and over tea was almost immediately taken to task for barbaric American ways. (gun ownership)
I recalled to him that back a decade or so the effects of the gun law change in Australia had really little effect. I knew the study was out of Melbourne and had pretty nuanced (ie. minimally massaged) stats and he should give it a look. he was then disinterested in continuing the conversation and so I walked on alone.
Per the morn’s shitfest, I went looking for the paper. However I find that zerohedge beat me to the punch. In ase you missed it, go here, it is titled “Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?”:
http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker%20and%20McPhedran%202007.pdf
The last line is suggestive if you do not want to pore over the entirety:
“There is insufficient evidence to support the simple premise that reducing the
stockpile of licitly held civilian firearms will result in a reduction in either firearm or
overall sudden death rates.”
Too old for you? How about this 2016 publication from that bastion of gun-lovers at the AMA?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2530362
General conclusion?
“Because of this, it is not possible to determine whether the change in firearm deaths can be attributed to the gun law reforms.”
Please, pay special attention to Table 3.
That is all.
Da P
da – Oz went apeshit when a guy killed several dozen. They changed the laws, which had little practical effect, as it is not a gun culture in Oz. The country folk all still have their guns, and the cityfolk never did.
Llpoh –
Okay. Then what was the point of your original post that implicitly called for us to “do something”?
Look, you have all of my sympathy but none of my support. I have spent way too many ER shifts, up to my elbows in gore, for several years about a half-century ago .
It sucks what people do to each other. Whether by knife, machete, bat, nunchucks…or firearms. I’ve seen all that.
What people do to themselves also sucks…by straight razor, broken glass, rope, liquor, dope, or firearm…or just tall buildings. Seen all that too…one body being brought in in 7 different bags makes for a long shift and very short nights.
The “ONLY” thing to be done regarding firearms in this milieu is to disenfranchise legal holders of firearms….supposedly.
Unacceptable.
I am calling BS….not on you, whom I respect, but your perhaps hastily formed opinion expressed. Perhaps you are having an off day. (If you tell me to blow you, it would not phase me a bit.)
Done.
Da P
So let’s compromise. If we ban gun ownership for blacks, gang members, and anyone who ever voted for a Democrat, that should just about bring the US to where it needs to be.
Tree – that would come pretty close, I imagine.
What’s wrong with this picture?
Hate + Government + Gun Control = Democide
The LEFT spreads more HATE than anyone, the LEFT wants BIGGER government, the LEFT wants Gun Control. This is all anyone needs to know.
The LEFT plans to kill ANYONE who disagrees with them on ANY topic. We already know that they are INSANE, so giving 100% power over your life by INSANE LEFTISTS would be an act of insanity. No math required, just read their tweets and their statements in congress.
Hundreds of MILLIONS killed last century prove this.
An armed citizenry is free because a responsible citizenry maintains National Security.
An armed citizenry, who are known to be effective at sustaining traditions, skills and knowledge, maintains National Security. A citizenry tasked with maintaining National Security from generation to generation, continually teaching traditions, skills and knowledge, stands as a Cautionary Guard to those groomed for tyrannical aspirations.
The tyrannical class has power in the US because a portion of US citizenry lacks basic-to-advanced skills and knowledge to maintain National Security.
October- Astute, but the needle has moved so much we need a new fuckin dial…this place could turn into Yugoslavia on radioactive steroids. So few of those remain, the Cautionary Guard.
The U.S is clearly the last hold out for the notion of an Armed Citizenry, at some point it will have to be door to door collections or isolate and let the starving mobs work through the generational supply of guns and ammo. Then send in the clean up crew, probably Chinese and the globe is reduced to nothing but state actors(corporate/state hybrid) and outlaws.
‘zactly.