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Journalist Alex Berenson and podcaster Joe Rogan on Wednesday discussed the long-term safety of mRNA vaccines, Big Pharma’s monetary incentives and Berenson’s ongoing lawsuit against Pfizer and the U.S. government.
“We do not know what the long-term effects of the mRNA vaccines are … and it is immoral and unethical to keep using those right now,” according to Alex Berenson, who appeared Wednesday on “The Joe Rogan Experience” podcast.
Berenson, a former New York Times reporter and now Substack writer, is the author of 13 novels, the nonfiction book, “Pandemia: How Coronavirus Hysteria Took Over Our Government, Rights, and Lives” and the five-book series, “Unreported Truths about COVID-19 and Lockdowns.”
Berenson told Rogan he believes the mRNA vaccines are a “failed product” and should be withdrawn. But, he admitted, this is unlikely to happen.
“There’s far, far too much at stake for … the pharmaceutical industry and public health and the Democratic party and the media to even consider allowing that to happen,” he said.
Berenson pointed to promises made by the government and pharmaceutical industry that the mRNA vaccines would revolutionize the treatment of respiratory viruses and eliminate COVID-19.
“Don’t let them tell you that’s not what they said, because it is what they said, OK?,” Berenson said, noting they did not say, “There may be some symptom reduction. It may reduce cases of serious illness.”
“No, it was ‘These are so effective we’re going to get to herd immunity with them and COVID is not going to be a problem ever again,’” he said. “That was just horseshit.”
Berenson apologized to Rogan for bringing up the issue, telling him he didn’t think a lot of people cared about it.
Rogan responded:
“No, I think a lot of people care. I don’t think it’s a few people. It’s just uncomfortable — all these things are so uncomfortable … that people would sell things that don’t work just to make money, and they would put you at risk. But it’s like, if they can, they will.”
The two discussed the new Pfizer vaccine for the latest variant, noting it was tested on only 10 mice — “Not a joke,” Berenson said.
Berenson talked about 5 billion doses of the mRNA vaccines having been made, and $120 billion worth sold by Pfizer and Moderna combined, by his estimate, and the fact that 2 billion of those doses were thrown away, unused.
“The companies made somewhere between $40-50 billion on a vaccine that just got tossed. … Even by American pharmaceutical standards, that’s a lot of money,” he said.
“It’s hard to turn the spigot off,” Rogan said, commenting on the continued rollout of vaccines. Berenson, finishing Rogan’s sentence, added, “And it’s hard to tell the truth when there’s that much money.”
Alex Berenson & Joe Rogan Discuss the Long-Term Safety of mRNA Vaccines
“We do not know what the long-term effects of the mRNA vaccines are…And it is immoral and unethical to keep using those right now.”@AlexBerenson @joerogan pic.twitter.com/ZP4NcywWVG
— Chief Nerd (@TheChiefNerd) September 20, 2023
Rogan wondered whether pharmaceutical companies could even afford to tell the truth, given their obligation to shareholders.
“If you have something and you haven’t been called out for it,” Rogan said, “and there seems to be enough gaslighting going on in the media, that it sort of obscures the reality of it — you’re supposed to keep selling it … right?”
“If you don’t look to find the problem, then you don’t know, right?” Berenson said. “So you don’t look — that’s the game.”
“Boy I wish that wasn’t the game,” Rogan said. “I wish the game was, ‘We want to make medicine to make you feel better and if that medicine doesn’t work, we try to come up with a new one — sorry!’”
Rogan reflected on how the huge amount of money going into vaccine development creates incentives to pass them through trials “regardless of whether or not it’s effective.”
“Before you get out of the gate … you’re into this thing a billion dollars or whatever,” Rogan said.
Berenson said, “That’s right. And on the flip side of that, it’s so profitable on a per-unit basis because it takes a few cents to make, and then you could sell it for, you know, five dollars or $50 or $500.”
Berenson reminded Rogan he was suing the government and the chief executive of Pfizer and one of its board members “all in the same suit.”
“They responded with a motion to dismiss,” Berenson said, arguing that Berenson had been selling merchandise off of the lawsuit.
Pointing to his self-printed tee shirt, which read “Fauci & Gottlieb & Slavitt & Bourla” — four of the defendants in his lawsuit — Berenson laughed and pushed back on Bourla’s claims, saying “Listen buddy, your company made $70 billion selling the vaccines and you personally had your salary double from $18 million to $33 million — almost double — from 2020 to 2022. So don’t call me the grifter, my friend.”
Rogan said he thought that Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla’s argument was “kind of crazy” and that the real issue is how they got Berenson kicked off Twitter.
“That’s what the lawsuit’s about,” Berenson said.
Berenson pointed to the name “Gottlieb” on his shirt, saying that Scott Gottlieb between 2017 and 2019 was the commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
“He quit the FDA and three months later — exactly three months, the minimum amount of time later — he joined the Pfizer board where he’s a senior board member,” Berenson said.
The other two names on the shirt — and plaintiffs in Berenson’s suit — are Dr. Anthony Fauci, former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Andy Slavitt, formerly President Biden’s White House senior advisor for the COVID-19 response.
During the more than two-and-a-half-hour podcast, Berenson and Rogan discussed a number of other topics, including the real cost of pharmaceutical incentives, corruption in the medical system, ongoing COVID-19 scams, unlocking the secrets of health, gambling and aliens.
Listen to full episode:
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