Guest Post by Eric Peters
Regulars here know all about the trolls – and possibly, bots – that disrupt the comments section of this (and other) web sites. It’s an Internet-wide problem and I think I’ve found the solution.
Or, rather, Jordan Peterson – the great contrarian psychologist – suggested it. He posited, first of all, that Internet anonymity encourages narcissists and bullies (the two are manifestations of the same pathology) to harass people because they can do so without the repercussions that would attend if they did so personally.
That is why anonymity is a problem on discussion boards, in the comments section of web sites such as this one. You get people who get enjoyment out of getting a rise out of the people who are trying to have a discussion.
There is also the newer problem of chatbots that mimic people – and do a convincing job. Anyone who has played around with chatGTP know this already. And there are what are styled “influencers,” by which is meant people who are paid – or motivated, for political reasons – to disrupt the comments sections of sites that provide a forum for outside-the-narrative discussion of verboten topics, such as the truth about EVs and the drugs that aren’t vaccines.
But – paradoxically – it is anonymity that enables heterodox discussion about verboten topics. Many people are under great pressure to not publicly say anything that can and will be used against them. Not in court – not yet – but at work. Or when applying for work. Everyone knows the power of Woke. If there’s anything online that can be used to frame you as a “denier”- of whatever – or a “hater”- of whatever you’re supposed to pretend you love – then it will be.
As a personal aside, I can tell you I know people who work in the car industry, some of them for major automakers, who have written me privately (and posted here anonymously) that they must be very careful about what they type publicly. For example, one has told me – off the record – of pending upper management decisions pertaining to workers’ future in relation to EVs – that he cannot talk about openly. More specifically, he cannot use his real name to comment about it, to state his own views regarding it.
So, anonymity is also important. Many of the world’s most important, Earth-moving publications were initially published anonymously – for the sake of the physical safety of the authors thereof.
Back to Peterson.
His solution inspired my own, which is a bridge from one to the other. He (if I am understanding him correctly) wants people to use their real names – verified – online, relegating those who wish to remain anonymous to a kind of separate Internet for people who wish to remain anonymous. It would be a place where the anons can back-and-forth with other anons but the anons would not be permitted to engage with people.
I like the concept but the implementation worries me as it seems like it could metastasize into something along-the-lines of a digital ID and I’d rather deal with legions of trolls and chatbots than accede to that, for it would give the government (and corporations) exactly what they want. That being the power to know about – and so, control – what everyone has to say about everything.
There’s a better way, in my view. It is the policy I’ve decided to implement here at EPautos and – so far – it has worked perfectly. It works as follows:
No one must either register or provide a verified identity to comment on these pages; they are open to everyone, including those who – for legitimate reasons – prefer not to use their real names.
It is an honor system, basically.
But, when someone (or something) abuses the system, as by establishing a pattern of trolling the other commentators and does so anonymously – or using a made-up identity – I may intervene and require that someone (or something) to identify by name – their real name – as the condition for being allowed to continue posting here. I did just that recently with a person (or bot) that was using the handle, Lyspooner – a corruption of the name of Lysander Spooner, the 19th century libertarian writer – to post comments Karl Marx would have approved of.
I told him/it that it would have to use its real name going forward as I (and others here) had grown weary of its baiting (and insulting). My reasoning being that such a person – if it is a person – is only willing to be abusive without risking consequences, such as being publicly associated with the comments he/it leaves online.
He/it left.
As did several other anonymous or fake-named trolls/bots/influencers, such as “Cashy” and “EarthLuvr.” Call them out – and they go away.
That’s my solution.
What do you think of it?
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You can either be a privacy advocate and a defender of free speech, or you can say that people must use their real names to comment online. It can’t be both.
How would you even know they were using their real names? You’d have to start implementing a verification system where you’d have to ask for personal info and email addresses. That’s indeed a slippery slope that does ultimately lead to some sort of digital ID to even log on the internet. Then there’s people who use a VPN. No way you can keep track of that.
I think it’s much easier to just ignore the trolls and talk to people who actually want to have legitimate discussions and debates.
Have you tried to follow a thread when five different ‘Anonymous’ (No Namers as I call them) are taking five different views. Reminds me of the two bar fights I was in during my miss spent yout. Didn’t know who to punch so…I just punched everyone close to me I didn’t know.
You said: “I think it’s much easier to just ignore the trolls and talk to people who actually want to have legitimate discussions and debates”.
No Name, please post your SECRET SQUIRREL troll identifier checklist outside of BUTT HURT personal insulters, and the Saul Alinsky 5th rule followers (some who can be both)…let alone the Langley army of posers & dividers…who tactically hide behind Anonymous.
There are many levels of trolls and TBP has been infested.
Admin will be forced to cut some of them off when they go too far…so there is that.
BUT…there is another point. Do you actually believe posting Anonymous with the NSA (oops there is a three letter red flag added to my list of ahhhhh KEY WORDS) is going to protect you???
Do you think posting Anonymous is safer then posting say ahhhh a dog with a hair lip who barks…mark…mark?
I know strong minded, opinionated, like minded friends who have been completely neutered…their FREE SPEECH BALLS completely cut off of their 1st amendment RIGHTS…because they actually think by being quiet when the doors are being kicked in…they won’t be at the top of the list…they won’t admit that…but that is true..
See guys like me won’t “Burn in the Camps”…we will die honorable deaths.
Dude…all using ‘Anonymous’ is going to do is protect you from being identified from what you say to other posters here who aren’t hiding…and don’t give a shit about who I call TLPTB (L=Luciferian) so to speak.
Get the best VPNs you can…it will make no difference!!!
There is no place to hide.
Man or Woman up Buddy.
Post what you mean and mean what you post…don’t have a spirit of fear…be BOLD!
Now is the time…consider yourself lucky to be here at the GREATEST MOMENT IN HIS-STORY.
Thanks for calling me a coward in the nicest possible way. Of course I really don’t care what you think.
“See guys like me won’t “Burn in the Camps”…we will die honorable deaths”
I love the internet tough guy routine by the way.
I have no idea who you are dude…Anonymous posters are becoming Legion…every pun intended.
If you think I was posting about whoever you are…please seek counseling.
Who’s your counselor? Have you been making progress?
Maybe I’ll give them a try.
If posters were NOT anonymous, we would get Swatted. That is a tried and true Leftist tactic.
There are fifteen other “Anons”on here,kinda full of yourself ain’t ya’??…..
Look a hare in the face and you’ll never make that mistake again.
My strategy is to speak the truth most of the time. I have been threatened and attacked for speaking out. I feel like I have to make up for the silence of others. Ive come to grips with the possibility of being erased and I’m ok with that as long as it is for the cause, but I want to be able to do it as long as I can. So I will censor myself to get past the guard not out of fear for my safety but for fear of not being able to continue. Pick my battles wisely. When A Tea F came for my guns I chose to cooperate so I could continue. Can’t let emotions override and cloud my judgement. That would be me playing into their hands where they want me. Know when your being drawn out. Dont be a crash test dummy.
May we see you badge pleeeeessssse…..
I think making people pay for the privilege of posting comments is the best solution myself. $1 a month is all that would be needed. It would probably make the comments much more relevant and it would at the same time keep bots or trolls from posting. People can still have anonymous names.
Soros won’t be stopped by a dollar a month.
Especially with the Parliament of Whores running interference.
Shoot…shot…shit Liberty they will just tax the hell out of it!
I won’t pay for any online content, ever. I post on some other sites like NewMax and DailyWire. They always have hidden content that you have to pay for, but I refuse that. I also refuse to use Paypal for a variety of reasons (one political).
I use Linux for reason and one is that Linux doesn’t extort money from me. If I find and use something I like I can donate what I think it is worth.
I do contribute by not blocking ads that are not super intrusive like flashing banner ads, and even occasionally click on an ad as I know that is how sites make money.
What’sHerFace does her best Eddie Murphy, playing every part:
I am with original anon,ignore the trouble makers(fuck with them mercilessly!),either free speech or not,freedom includes costs/inconvenience.
I would say we cannot ignore/live with this well….,we are doomed already at least as far as net ect.
Put forth well informed comments/ideas amidst the bullshit and folks will always come and add their own knowledge thus putting the idiots/bots in their place.
Ban all Anons- if they can’t be bothered to even make up scteen name- therefor making it easier to carry on a conversation they shouldn’t be allowed. Anons just screw up the conversation chain when there are apparently several different anons on one thread. These people are uncivilized.
It’s a petty solution to a petty problem. People who visit “controversial” websites are monitored by internet service providers/phone companies and their employees, many of which are BLM, La Raza, Jewish Defense League, members etc. Also, we are all monitored by government agencies, and an army of nonprofits/NGOs. There are no VPNs or Tor that will hide you. If anyone crosses the line and says anything illegal (like christopher cantwell), they’ll be arrested and pay for it with prison, fines, etc. So, I wouldn’t add to a long list of psychopaths already playing petty surveillance games. If it’s not illegal, let it fly. If it is illegal, they’ll get hammered anyway.
True but if they want you they will find you. IP addresses and DNS leaks will identify you. Every computer has a number to identify it. I have been on TOR and dropped by and left a comment, and ADMIN did not allow that. Hiding is harder than you think.
This is their fundamental problem with anon posters: when you post something they don’t like, they can’t ruin your life if they can’t figure out who you are.
That is the goal of pieces of shit like Peterson and Peters – they want to know who you are so they can pass your identity on to people who will cause problems for you. This is their only goal in getting you to identify yourself.
Well it is both fair and reasonable as well as affording people a choice, so I guess that rules it out.
Once again just like our government seeks to reduce or eliminate MY CHOICE in the matter……besides that IS my name,but you would have had to know me when I was 4……
This comes up time and time again AP did a post about Anons on TBP earlier this year. People can be identified by the IP. Just try to upvote a comment twice. The site is smart enough to know that you already upvoted it.
Quora used to have a real name policy and would ban people deemed susp if they couldn’t or wouldn’t provide their info. It dropped that policy a couple years ago. People who used their real names left. Other people who used nicknames rejoiced.
Oh my indeed.
LOL.
Maybe I’m not that tech knowledgeable. If I try to upvote a comment twice, please enlighten me why I can’t. Is it my device? I never claim to know everything, so I’d love for you to teach me something, Anon. Thank you and have any kind of day you choose to have.
You can change your IP address by either a VPN or by even rebooting your modem. So you could easily up/down vote a comment many times.
Why you would do that would be the mystery.
Thank you anon a moos.
So what prevents the troll, chatbot from changing their online handle and just continuing their objectionable behavior? Wouldn’t some kind of IP or DNS blocker work better? Yes it could be worked around, but the average troll probably doesn’t know how or wouldn’t make the effort.
The Internets will never replace the public house. The problem isn’t just meanies and bots ruining comment sections, the problem is the expectation that comment sections mirror reality in any meaningful way beyond the confines of one’s own head.
At the same time, the comment sections and alt-media general have become essential in keeping the flame while the above-ground monolith of the fourth estate polishes its boot upon all our faces.
But as much as we may want it, these places do not actually exist; they are not The Green Dragon or The City Tavern or The Constitution House.
We can exchange all kinds of signals – the noise of crazies and bots and trolls being the toll we must pay for that ability, but we cannot allow that to replace the bonds of men in community. Nor can we allow “the government” or private techlords render these chambers “safe and effective”.
There is value in the signal, but it always comes down to men in real life meeting and building rapport and trust and common goals to be prosecuted through action. That those actions are local and small and often boring is not just a feature, but the essence of the seed, where the DNA for revolution is protected until fertile soil germinates it into that tree of liberty.
The fourth turn might be described as keepers of the seed. We must resist the addiction to the insta gratification and self-license that all the internets have inculcated into our daily lives.
Already we have years of chat boards, myspaces, facebook envy & divorce, insta tiktok narcissism, tindr grindr ruination of women and courtship, amazonian bloodbath on main street, and all matters of perversion, fetish, and degeneracy that have some chamber in the net where people can exercise their right to be brilliant or terrible. All day every day in the palm of their hand.
The result? The kids are not okay, the truth is fully banished from IRL to the point where the actual public commons have been rendered a homogenized, sterile, inert plaza of consumerism and banal self-interest.
Meanwhile the permanent revolution rages on while the American Revolution 2.0 is in the basement ordering ammo or pizza and venting their swollen spleens on other anons because too many think thats the only thing that can be done and sadly for many they are right.
Petersen and the gatekeepers always seem to propose a solution that involves old Ben Franklins axiom on liberty/safety. UK is presently codifying this I hear. The globo noose is tightening and online anonymity is becoming moot. The disaggregated, decentralized systems are being converged. Just as “muh paycheck” is already subject to the great tyrannies.
We have all the info we need. All the ideas, philosophies, history, and technical data in books printed long ago. What we don’t have enough of are men willing to separate physically from the system they claim to hate.
All things return to the dirt and from the dirt is where we will strap on our own boots to cast off the evil. There can be no other way.
Also, interesting how there seems to be two separate fuses over anonymous, as in not my real identity, vs I am too lazy/secret squirrel to make a gay screen name to afford even a sliver of continuity and polite protocol in the boards.
I’m def for freedom of speech, and anyone can post under any moniker they choose.
What I am against is asswipes and bots that are just there to disrupt and cause chaos. Just as I would tell an asshole at a gathering that they need to either settle down or leave, so, IMO a troll/bot/asshole should get a private warning.
Failing to settle down and/or leave would be met with an encouragement to leave. Here is easy, couple keystrokes and its done. Personally I think anyone that gets asked to step back should be allowed back if they are more respectful and not just trolling. I don’t agree with blanket banning, unless the bot/asswipe intentionally makes efforts to circumvent a required break just to continue trolling.
Imo, a free speech site means you are free to disagree, or broach topics of any nature but not to burn the barn because you find pleasure in burning things down.
Just censor me more. I’d be willing to post under a verifiable ID. But anonymity is part of freedom of speech, imo.
If what I say bothers you, censor it, like you often do. I’ll get over it.
Censor me more.
I’ve only ever written ONE anonymous post, and that was a few days ago. I never vote my own comments, or do any other stupid crap, besides my usual stupid crap.
Instead of providing an ID, maybe the problematic bots and fakes can be thinned out by doing what the big guys like Yahoo etc. do: show them a photographic grid and have them select the bicycle, bus or crosswalk. That should do it! Or grids plural, since sometimes I’ve had to do 10 photos in a row to prove my humanity. That is a joke routine that makes the AI laugh.
I am not a troll. I am a shyte poster.
Who cares? Somebody has something interesting or insightful to offer or they don’t. It’s your decision entirely whether you engage or ignore.
I thought the 4chan kids trolling Juden Peterstein was amusing. There’s some truth in what they say about him, which is why he’s so upset. Judging by his subsequent behaviour the trolling has caused him to enjoy a moment of clarity and personal insight
Psychology of internet trolls: They understand what hurts people but simply don’t care
Psychological studies show trolls tend to be male, show higher levels of psychopathy traits — low levels of empathy, guilt and responsibility for their actions — and higher levels of sadism traits, the enjoyment of causing others physical and psychological pain.
Attacking a troll is just encouraging them. Their purpose is to piss you off. What I do when a troll attacks me is tell them I love them and will pray to god for their forgiveness and salvation. That usually shuts them up.
If there’s someone out there whose name really is PSBindy, that boy’s in trouble.