I’ve had it. This weekend was another case of my hearing about someone openly bragging about how they work for a season and then collect unemployment during the off-season, you know, because they were “laid off”. This really just pisses me off. I mean, not the people so much, because this is the scam our government allows and millions of Americans are doing it, but the notion that our lawmakers are so wasteful with OUR money to not put in a simple mandate that if you’re seasonal, you don’t get frigging unemployment insurance off-season! This is a choice and a known work/vacation period, and not a surprise “layoff”, so why the heck is it treated as such?
I know, I know, the liberals will cite that this is just a portion of the federal budget and we spend more on wars and “tax breaks for the rich”, but what ever happened to right and wrong? It all adds up. Let’s add up the millions of Americans committing disability fraud (conveniently becoming disabled when their 99 weeks of unemployment checks run out), the millions of other unemployment scams, Obama phones (to his credit, not his program, but he got the publicity), and the rest of the free shit army handouts our country permits. So, here are two examples one person removed from me that I can share personally:
Continue Reading About Scammy Seasonal Worker Unemployment Jobs
Hardly anything pisses me off anymore. The bullshit just seems to grow larger and gather more steam every week. I’m more tired than pissed off. I just keep my head down and continue to prep as best I can.
I_S
I agree with I S, nothing we can do but prepare, why keep worrying about what we can not change.
A lot of the towns here in West Michigan are tourist towns. These tourist town jobs are all minimum wage summer time only, then they live off of unemployment and other types of assistance during the cold winters. Rinse and repeat.
Sad to say but most people in these towns big dream is to get a job at “The Walmart” but wave the flag and scream to Buy American.
Do I detect a tone of “FUBAR and FORGET!” from IS and card802?? How sad. It pisses me off still and more.
I just finished my absentee ballot for the elections (more to vote “NO” to all the modifications to the Florida Constitution the FL legislature stuffed onto it in hopes of ripping off the public and making it legal than to vote for or against any particular person) and I merely did not vote for anyone now holding elected office (except one – the Supervisor of Elections who does a great job!).
Throw all the bastards out and start over. At least doing that will confound TPTB until they corrupt the newcomers.
THROW ALL THE BASTARDS OUT AND START OVER! The battle cry of TBP!!
MA
Muck
Who did you vote for President?
“I know, I know, the liberals will cite that this is just a portion of the federal budget and we spend more on wars and “tax breaks for the rich”
Yeah, who the fuck did Everett Dirksen think he was anyway?
Its pretty common around here.
Roofers….
Its one way immigant workers become illegals and then vote democratic.
Your indignation is misplaced.
Employers are forced to pay into unemployment…this tax is considered a cost of labor. It makes NO DIFFERENCE to the employer whether he pays it to the government or the employee – his cost is the same.
IF the employee were being paid the difference (between his pay and the unemployment insurance tax), then your gripe might be valid…working 8 months a year with a 4 month seasonal layoff could be foreseeable, and having been paid half again as much during the 8 months of work, one might reasonably expect this worker to fend for himself during the other 4 months.
But the worker doesn’t have that option. The government – in it’s infinite wisdom – forced his boss to pay that money to THEM.
So yeah…layoffs and collecting unemployment seasonally.
But
Pipes
Actually, here, we pay an unemployment insurance premium regardless of whether we have an employment claim,…but if we fire someone and they are successful in filing an unemployment claim, we pay the equivalent of their salary for six months and then our premium goes up too, for an extended period.
So we fight claims aggressively, and it DOES make a big difference to us.
I guess thats why its called unemployment insurance.Help through times of unemplyment.
I hate the stickey keys on my board.
I know the feeling, Ron. Too many lunches at my desk.
Sigh…I’m going to miss lunches at my desk after the big whatever-is-going-to-happen…
Some states have banned collections whereas others haven’t. Obviously, the states that have have come to their senses. There’s no reason business and taxpayers should subsidize vacations for seasonal workers. Go out and get a different seasonal job or budget accordingly!
Darwin-
You don’t seem to get it.
Business and “taxpayers” aren’t subsidizing vacations for seasonal workers- the seasonal workers themselves are. During the time those seasonal workers are working, they are being robbed of potential income via the government’s confiscatory taxing (unemployment insurance payments). Sure, employers are the ones who cut the check to the government, BUT IT IS THE WORKER’S LABOR that is the basis of the tax, and from the employer’s perspective, the tax is a “cost of labor”, and could just as easily and readily be paid directly to the worker during the season of work.
As long as there is an unemployment tax forcibly extracted from the earning potential of workers during the time they DO work…it is completely logical, ethical, moral and responsible for said workers to collect an unemployment check during some or all of the time they DON’T work.
Further, business that operates in this “seasonal” atmosphere fully expects – and factors into the cost of doing business – the unemployment claim expectation. It’s baked in the cake.
Don’t hate the players…hate the game.
Change the game to remove the government-sanctioned armed robbery, and then workers can be responsible for their seasonal time off.
Pipes, I disagree. I, as a full-year working taxpayer, am paying for their lifestyle. If you work a chairlift at a ski resort and earn $12,000 that season, well, that’s it. That’s all you should make for the year. You shouldn’t go on to collect a few hundred bucks a month for the next 26 weeks or whatever your state allows (hell, 99 weeks when Obama’s policy is in play).
See, some states allow and some disallow, so that alone shows that there is a recognition that this is a wasteful, inappropriate practice. As I stated in the article, I’m not hatin’ the players but the system. When the government, an employer or any entity makes it so damn easy to scam the system, an overwhelmingly large number of people do so. Just look at everything from tax evasion to disability fraud. It’s rampant.
By simply changing the rules (all states) to disallow seasonal unemployment collection, the wages will stay virtually the same, while tax dollars could be either a) not confiscated to begin with, b) pay down outstanding debt or c) redirect those funds more efficiently i.e. education, infrastructure, etc.
If I have to choose between firing more teachers or paying the Christmas tree guys to sit on their ass all summer, the choice is clear.
Darwin-
If you don’t want to PAY benefits to a seasonal worker, you cannot TAX (unemployment tax) that worker’s pay. Period.
There can be NO MORAL JUSTIFICATION for the government taxing his labor in the form of “unemployment insurance” if there is no possibility of him collecting unemployment, as you would have done.
Pipes, I disagree completely. There is nothing preventing the seasonal worker from getting other seasonal work or just not collecting at all. And again, many states now ban the practice. In your example, should teachers collect unemployment all summer? No, of course not! And they don’t. Where do you draw the line? To me, it’s black and white. If you voluntarily accept a seasonal job with a known start/end date, you were not “laid off” and are not entitled to unemployment payments.
Holy shit you guys are thick.
It’s morally preferrable to you to allow the government to tax one’s labor under the heading of “unemployment insurance” though an individual – as someone who works in a job that is subject to seasonal fluctuation – will be INELIGIBLE TO COLLECT…than it is to work 8 or 9 or 10 months (government collecting $ all during that time based on your efforts) and then collecting a benefit during the time you are out of work.
Stated differently, you complain that the unemployment taxation based on YOUR labor should not “subsidize” these seasonal workers benefits, yet it’s somehow FINE to have THEIR LABOR be taxed for unemployment insurance – THAT YOU WOULD DENY THEM. So, in effect, the taxation of their labor will subsidize someone ELSE’S benefit.
No gaps in THAT logic.
FYI – drop the “teacher” references…they are non-sequitur. Generally speaking, teachers receive an annual salary which they sometimes have the option of deciding to spread out over 10 or 12 months. Opting to receive their pay in 10 months does NOT change the fact that they have received their full year salary.
Roofers, landscapers, construction workers – depending on locale – are ALL subject to seasonal layoffs, and virtually NONE of them will have a “known start/end date”, because NONE of them control the weather and NONE of them work for someone who DOES.
Had any of you ever run a business – especially one subject to annual seasonal slowdowns – you would understand BOTH the moral argument regarding the unemployment tax/benefit, AND the importance of retaining workers – and how the unemployment benefit helps with that…which is why employers are willing to “lay -off” employees – which results in the employer paying a premium to UIA based on workers claims…again, it’s a cost of doing business, and is part of the business model.
In your ignorance, you seem to believe employees and employers alike would rather operate in this immoral system of theft and redistribution as opposed to in an unhindered one where the employer still pays out the same costs for labor, but all of it goes to the EMPLOYEE, and not the government. In THAT system, workers are willing and able to carry themselves through the layoff, because in effect, they are now like teachers who have received 12 months pay in 10 months time.
Whether a teacher chooses to take their pay across 10 or 12 months has nothing to do with the fact that they’re not working during the summer; just like a roofer (if they were so inclined) could ask their employer to spread their payments out accordingly as well. As odd as that would be, it is the same concept.
Here is the key issue. People should be paid for their hours worked. Period.
People who perennially collect unemployment insurance are takers and our system allows it (in certain states).
Why can’t some guy who’s off for a season go work some other part-time job or seasonal job? Why should taxpayers subsidize this time off? It seems like just an argument to justify your actions or someone you know/support engaging in the practice but it does not hold up to logic.
Like I said…thick.
I am paid less as a seasonal worker because my employer is required to pay higher unemployment insurance rates for me. I could not afford to work for $9/hr without the effective boost from the unemployment I collect later. I would much rather have the extra pay upfront rather than having to go through the demeaning process of applying for unemployment during the off season.
@Seasonal Worker
1. Your employer pays between 1% and 10%(ish, varies by state) on your first $10k (or so, some less, some states more) of wages. Maximum would be about a buck an hour. Would a buck an hour change your life that much? (Especially considering that a buck an hour raise, isn’t a buck in your pocket).
2. You draw more unemployment in one month than your employer pays in unemployment taxes on your wages all year. We employers have a “fund” and once any former employee draws more than we have paid we are assessed extra taxes to help cover it. One mass layoff generally obliterates most companies funds pretty quickly.
3. You make $9 an hour, what is stopping you from working at McDonalds in your off season? Seems you wold make more money, hell, you might accidentally work your way into a full time gig.
The reality is that your annual vacation is subsidized by every single citizen that is still working. I don’t see the fairness in this.
@Pipes, bullshit. I am a business owner and if I want to maintain good employees in my downtimes I adjust my work to keep them on the payroll – at least part time.
If your LIFE requires you work full time, year around, to pay for it, then YOU should be the one figuring that out.
Mommy & daddy gubment to the rescue of those that don’t plan, again.
What is insane is that you think in our global economy that this crap can continue. We, America, cannot afford to keep paying to rescue those that refuse to help themselves.
Sitting on your ass for three or four months a year, crying because you CHOSE a geographic location that gets too cold for the industry you CHOSE.
Pipes you call us thick, yet you expect the rest of us to help you pay for your own CHOICES with freaking smiles on our faces?
Good luck with that.
Oh, and Pipes, where is your indignation about all the small business families that have to pay unemployment but are barred from drawing it?
*crickets*
Or, where’s the indignation that those companies that are structured as Sub Chapter S Corporations have to pay both federal and state unemployment taxes on the owner (and family) health insurance policy? Not only are they the ONLY people in the country taxed on health insurance, they are taxed in unemployment taxes (current over 12% of the first $9500 in wages per employee) that the owner can NEVER collect.
Everytime we ask the government to do our planning for us, or to take the responsibility away from us, they run roughshod over the very guys that historically supplied the wealth and jobs to every community across the country.
Justify it all you want, the reality is that people need to be 100% accountable for their OWN choices. Choosing to go into construction in a state that shuts down for winter is a choice.
Another sick nutjob shows his ass. Fucking great.
Was me above. Wpes.
Here is a Thought Experiment for you.
Assume the society has Full Employment, but you run a Biz which only needs Seasonal Workers. Maybe you Grow Grapes in Central CA and only need Grape Pickers for 2 months at the end of Summer.
Where will you get Grape Pickers if they don’t have Income year round? Between this Grape Picking Season and next, last season’s Grape Pickers will have STARVED to DEATH.
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This of course is PRECISELY the model followed in the Grapes of Wrath. Each season of Okies or Wetbacks is considered Disposable, easily replaced next year by new Disposable Grape Pickers.
What Seasonal UE does is keep Grape Pickers alive to pick Grapes next season. In reality, the Land Owners who need Slaves to Pick Grapes should pick up this cost, but they don’t because next year they can import NEW impoverished people to Pick Grapes! Capitalism in a NUTSHELL.
RE
http://doomsteaddiner.org
I am a seasonal worker band I DO collect, it is actually offered to employees as a way to retain us for the following season. I also think that this country has much bigger issues than seasonal unemployment that need to be figured out first what about the trillions we pay in foreign aid every year?
lol i have seen the light after reading this and i am quiting my 10 month a year job and not getting my one month unemployment check how stupid of me
Honestly all of you against this are probably ignorant and republicans. How do you think the roof over your head will get done? Do you expect someone to work one of the most dangerous jobs getting payed less than alot of trades then have no work all winter or when it rains a week straight? Do you have any moral compass?