Questions for Black Lives Matter: The Case for Separation

Guest Post by Fred Reed

I reading  the endless complaints by blacks about shootings by the police, I usually find it hard to know what really happened. As far as I am aware, the media never allow an unedited interview, or any interview, with the police charged with the shootings but allow endless commentary by people who weren’t there.

I am also often puzzled by the motivation of the cops. Do they confer in the morning and say, “Hey, let’s shoot some totally innocent black guy in front of witnesses who probably have cell phones?” And why are cops not brutalizing Latinos, only blacks, especially in LA, which provides a target-rich environment?

If I could, I would speak to BLM as follows:

I cannot determine what you want. There seems to be a great deal of anger but little clarity. Discussion usually wanders off  into demands for justice, but without specifics.

Since I am looking for practical recommendations, let us begin by acknowledging the circumstances we face. You say that white cops mistreat blacks, sometimes brutally. This is true. I have seen some of it, and know of more. White cops seldom like blacks, nor blacks, white cops. The cultures are irreconcilably different. On the other hand, beatings of whites, Latinos, and Asians by gangs of blacks are far outnumber beatings of blacks by white cops. In sum, no love is lost and I do not see a lot of moral high ground. So:

Do you want white policemen excluded from black neighborhoods?

The available answers are “yes,” and “no.”  I do not mean to be abrupt about this, but  vague considerations of abstract justice, alleged discrimination, and racism do not provide usable answers. So, do you want white cops pulled from black neighborhoods, or not? It’s one or the other.

Personally I think it wiser not to have whites policing blacks. I don’t want to see white cops raped in media circuses. Nor do I want blacks to be mistreated by white cops. It seems to me that BLM should support segregation of police as it would eliminate any possibility of racist behavior. But, again, I will accept whatever choice you make.

Two New Jersey Teens Arrested for Brutal Knockout Attack on Elderly Man in Paterson

Do you want any policemen in your neighborhoods?

Here again a clear answer is needed. I have no stake in the question and do not want to impose my standards on you. Yet a concrete policy must be either no police, or police of some kind. Which?

If you asked my advice, I would suggest that without police your neighborhoods would turn into free-fire zones.  Note that after Ferguson police have in large part stopped policing, so you can get a minor idea of what a police-less society will be like. However,your neighborhoods are your neighborhoods. I will respect your decision.

Do blacks want to recruit, train, and discipline police forces of blacks only in their neighborhoods?

Again,  your choice. I do not presume to prescribe for you. However, it would eliminate complaints of racism. Should this plan be adopted, black forces would receive the same funding as white, the same pensions and benefits, so there would be no question of discrimination. They would better understand a black population. But do as you like. Just tell me, specifically, what it is that you want.

‘Black Lives Matter’ Thugs Who Beat Marine Unconscious in Race Attack WON’T Face Hate Crime Charges

What laws do you want cops to enforce in your neighborhoods?

Specifically what laws? Do you want the police to arrest crack dealers? Yes, or no. Again, I don’t care, and do not tell you what to do.

Yet cops need to know what they are expected to do. Should they stop people drinking in public, or allow it? Dealing drugs? Illegal parking? Public urination? Looting? Prostitution? I don’t care. Make any decision you like, but tell the cops clearly, and do not penalize them for doing what you tell them to do.

As a multiculturalist, I believe that different ethnic and racial groups should, within their neighborhoods, live by their own norms. That includes my neighborhood and my norms. For example, in my neighborhood I would want the police to shoot looters and arsonists. Perhaps this is a white thing, but I am a white guy and I am talking about white neighborhoods and white notions of civilization.

RacialMurder

Breitbart: “Three Young Black Women Accused of Beating 51-Year-Old White Man to Death” Hundreds of documented cases exist, carefully ignored by the media and the government. If you ignore a lump, it will go away. Ask any oncologist.

What should cops do when a criminal resists arrest? 

This is an important question, in fact the important question. Nearly all of the complaints of shootings and beatings have involved resistance to arrest. It becomes explosive when white cops are involved. Here we need a clear answer. A cop cannot obey a vague abstraction.

Let us suppose that in a black neighborhood a cop sees a wanted drug dealer, rapist, killer, or burglar. He says, “You are under arrest,” and the rapist or wanted armed robber or coke dealer says, “Fuck off, white boy.”

What does BLM want the cop to do? Nothing? Something? What? Specifically, what? This is not a philosophical question. A cop in an actual situation has to do something, or nothing.  I don’t care which. You tell me, and I will support your decision. But the cop has to  know what is expected of him.

For a white cop, the best answer is “nothing.” Anything he does risks a brutality beef: Physically tackling a criminal, tasing him, pepper-spraying him, clubbing him, or shooting him all pose the risk of prosecution, lawsuits, and loss of career.  There is no pretty way to subdue a strong male who doesn’t want to be subdued. A wanted killer is looking at a lot of time in slam and will be perfectly willing to hurt a cop to avoid being arrested.

What do you want the cop to do? Specifically what?

 What does BLM want black cops to do? 

This is your business, not mine, but you might think about it from the cop’s point of view. How should a black cop respond to resistance?

Other questions merit consideration. If you have ever walked beats with cops, which virtually no one has, you know that a cop faces ambiguities, murky regions of the law, and sometimes problems that cannot be  resolved within the law.

For example, suppose that a drug crew is selling on the sidewalk in front of an old woman’s house, and she is afraid to go out for groceries. This is not hypothetical: I have seen it. What should the cop do?

Legally, he can do nothing. The sidewalk is public, certainly if they keep moving. They will not be selling openly, so he can’t arrest them. He can tell them to move on, and they may. The minute he is out of sight, they are back. What if they say, “It’s a free country”?  Now what? The little old lady needs to eat.

What do you suggest? If it is your old woman in your neighborhood, it is your business, but the cop needs to know.

In sum, if you will say what concrete and specific things you want, we can discuss your desires rationally and perhaps come to a resolution. Some problems will inevitably remain, such as what to do in mixed neighborhoods. My take is that the quickest and easiest means of limiting friction is simply to separate white cops and black people, and black cops and white people, but this, if you agree that it is a good idea, cannot happen unless groups like BLM ask for it. 

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Gator
Gator
May 7, 2016 9:57 pm

where did i say african american? point it out to me please.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
May 8, 2016 12:15 am

Suppose they convene a gathering to consider these questions. Who will attend?
Responsible blacks – those with jobs, families, houses, perhaps a few real pastors / reverends from real black churches, tradesmen, shopkeepers, professionals.
Irresponsible blacks – those for whom dope, sex, welfare, theft and gadgets / bling / possessions are more important than anything else.
Grievance mongers – Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, various fossils from the Civil Rights movement, Farrakhan, similar
Youth – from movements, socialists, tribalists, communists, various
How could you possibly generate a coherent set of demands from an incoherent mob? Sorry Fred, you quest is doomed before you strap on your armor and leave your castle, a modern-day Don Quixote in search of an unobtainable Grail.

Llpoh
Llpoh
May 8, 2016 2:01 am

Ed – fuckers voting disagreement to obvious truths are both morons and assholes. Seems TBP is attracting too many of those at times.

Llpoh
Llpoh
May 8, 2016 2:04 am

Homer – MLK was a plagiarising, womanising, low-life piece of shit. Using him as any form of example to follow is moronic.

Anonymous
Anonymous
May 8, 2016 2:45 am

Stucky says: Lots of newbies here in the past month, or two. I would say about half of them aren’t worth a damn. I miss the “old” TBP of a few years ago.

You can’t have it both ways. You can have a little inner sanctum, a Kiva where you smoke the sacred mushroom or you have a movement with raw, unwashed noobs. Disciples become apostles.

EL Coyote
EL Coyote
May 8, 2016 2:46 am
Homer
Homer
May 8, 2016 3:27 am

Llpoh–I have yet to read definitive proof to those allegations. I have heard it before and am not convinced as to it’s accuracy. I judge a man by what he has achieved and not by his flaws. I don’t for one minute think that MLK didn’t entertain the idea that his actions might result in his death. To proceed with that realization was a brave thing to do. MLK helped his race and the white race, too. Not many can say that.

I have seen real cowardice in my life where one chooses the not the right thing because it puts them at risk, but the wrong thing because it was easy. MLK face a staunch Southern bigotry that had a history of fierce resolve. I call that brave.

We all like to think we are brave, but most of us are like Peter when confronted with fear for our safety, He denied thrice before the cock crowed.

Ed
Ed
May 8, 2016 10:13 am

Llpoh, I don’t know how the widget works as to whether you have to be signed in to vote a comment up or down. If anyone surfing in can vote, then it ain’t even a case of the site being full of assholes. People who don’t even comment could be voting on comments.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
May 8, 2016 11:52 am

Homer says: “I have yet to read definitive proof to those allegations.” Given the PC mindset infesting the MSM these days, the grievance hustlers with contingency-fee lawyers, the fraud in the White House and the partisan hack Attorney General, who is going to publish such proof? Where will they publish it that will be immune from pressure, frivolous lawsuits and outright censorship?

I remember my mother describing some of King’s shenanigans (not in any detail, mind you, I was a teen when he died) back in the 1970s. He was a womanizing, hard-drinking flimflam man who stumbled into a racket and rode it to the top. His associates, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and a few more are keeping the scam alive, and making a living inflaming and agitating race-baiting nonsense to keep the payoffs coming. The only reason you haven’t seen proof is that it is continually suppressed.

On Eve Of MLK Day, Will Adultery Keep Epic Dr. King Movie Off The Big Screen?

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html

” The widowed first lady soured on King as a result of secret wiretaps arranged by FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover had told President Kennedy that King tried to arrange a sex party while in town for the March on Washington, and told Robert Kennedy that King had made derogatory comments during the president’s funeral, Mrs. Kennedy recalled.

But as for what was actually said by King and his circle, history remains uncertain. The original surveillance tapes involving King have never been released publicly, and are under seal by court order until 2027″

Maybe that’s why you haven’t seen “definitive proof”; it’s locked up under court seal until 2027!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Jacqueline_Kennedy/jacqueline-kennedys-feelings-martin-luther-king-jr-revealed/story?id=14478321

Homer
Homer
May 8, 2016 2:28 pm

jamesthewanderer–I will look at your links. I stand by my post and assessment of MLK until shown otherwise.

I might remind you that sexual scandal is the ‘motive operandi’ of those who wish to politically denigrate another. Putin was labeled a pedophile by the Neo Cons, indirectly, when they posited that Putin had killed a Russian in England that was about to expose Putin as a pedophile. You can’t make this stuff up. I’m surprised that Trump hasn’t been castigated sexually. I think that Trump is spotless in that regard or it certainly would have surfaced. However, there was an attempt to label Trump as violent toward women. Patently untrue as the inference died a sudden death in the MSM without proof and factual debate.

Character assassination is the ‘bread and butter’ of political discourse. MLK posed a real threat to the Southern political establishment, not to speak of the entrenched Washington establishment. Any organized threat to the status quo will be vigorously opposed, so is it any wonder that MLK would be so demonized in an attempt to discredit him. J. Edgar was not without his prejudices and petty vindictiveness as history shows. I’m convinced that his investigators provided him with the information that he wanted regardless of its factuality. Much of the FBI’s information was not direct observation but second party innuendos (interviews). If we have to wait till 2027 to get the reports, it indicates to me that there is nothing there or the information can be readily dis-proven. That information would have, I think, been released to stop MLK and the Civil Rights Movement in its tracks had it been true.

Having lived a long time and knowing how the Washington establishment works, I’m reluctant to believe anything that has its origins on the Potomac. I’ve been lied to too many time.

So concerning MLK, I’m not willing to believe what my eyes show me to be different.

Homer
Homer
May 8, 2016 3:19 pm

jamesthewanderer–OK, I read your links. Hardly convincing. But…one believes what one’s ‘belief system’ dictates. We see the world thru a window of our beliefs. It colors our every perception.

Anything that is contrary to what one has incorporated into one’s ‘belief system’ is rejected, facts be damned and anything that supports one’s ‘belief system’ is readily accepted as proof as to the validity of that statement. This is just the way that the human mind works. It is probably just a survival thing?

So, be very careful what you believe and question your beliefs.

As far as MLK–The ruling on the field is pending further review.

Homer
Homer
May 8, 2016 4:59 pm

jamesthewanderer–Regarding you mother’s remarks concerning MLK. I’m reminded of a story.

A woman, when cooking a ham, always cut each end off of the ham before putting it into the pot. One day while observing this, her husband asked her why she always did this. She replied, that’s what her mother always did.

One day she was at her mother’s house and asked her mother why she always cut the ends off of the ham before cooking it. Her mother replied, “The pan was too short.”

That’s something to think about.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
May 8, 2016 9:41 pm

Something strange is going on – this whole article + comments has been tampered with, to the point that I cannot get it to load visibly. Admin, have you been hacked? It’s almost like … someone doesn’t want us to talk about MLK.

You know, like when you bring up things someone else doesn’t want discussed?

Oh well, Homer, I think you replied three times above. I’ll answer when / if I can read them.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
May 8, 2016 10:39 pm

Ahh, Admin, much better.

OK, Homer, your first post was a “I’ll read your links” plus questioning why it wasn’t released. I guess the answer is “it served someone’s purposes”. A judge sealed this material away while the debate of whether “should there be a MLK national holiday?” was going on. If this material was released then, it might have prevented such a holiday from being adopted – and caused disillusionment. (YES, it used to be sexual scandal, nowadays it’s child porn – if anyone inconveniently clean needs shutdown, the Feds arrest them, seize their computers and plant child porn on them. There is no questioning the chain of custody / evidence, the idea that the Feds can plant anything on any computer anywhere (even without physically seizing it first) is not allowed into evidence, and the case is closed without any further proof. I don’t doubt there are pedophiles out there, but I do doubt that there are anywhere near as many as we’ve been told lately.)
But the civil rights movement served white politicians and black politicians as well – it kept many blacks from embracing the Marxist movement Malcolm X represented, and the malignant Islam of Louis Farrakhan, both of whom were considered far more threatening (by white Americans in 1960’s – 70’s) than MLK. But, MLK chased women – and the stories were not suppressed sufficiently. What to do? If MLK kept it up and his reputation was trashed, the competition might get a leg up – and NO ONE outside their organizations wanted Malcolm X or Farrakhan to win influence.
I submit both black and white politicians needed MLK to become a legend – before he became a liability.
Finally, the FBI used to obey the law better, and keep files secret until a case was lodged – but in order to keep the files secret AFTER MLK was dead, they needed to be sealed away legally – hence the court order. One of the links I found suggested that there were 15 file cabinets of tape recordings (surveillance) of MLK at the FBI archive. One was investigations of his possible (largely unproven) ties to Communist organizations and organizers. The other 14 were all related to prostitutes, sexual actions and similar involvements. IF this is true, the truth will come out – in 2027. I suspect we will be told that there was a fire, water leak, bad EMF environment, whatever the gullible might believe in order to “lose” them once the seal expires.
Your second was “I read it, I’m still not convinced” – OK, the ruling on the field is pending further review. See you in 2027.
I did not understand your anecdote about the ham (I’ve heard a similar version going back to the grand-mother, who said the same thing). Are you saying that because my mother had a poor opinion of Dr. King (obtained at the time, watching the history unfold) that I do? My opinion of MLK is actually pretty mild; he did some good by preventing mindless violence, but some harm by making a scam into a perpetual grievance machine, exploited by his successors Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
One more thing you might look into: Dr. Ralph David Abernathy (a close associate of MLK) wrote an autobiography, in which he describes seeing a woman (later a Kentucky legislator) come out of King’s hotel bedroom the morning of the day he was killed. The book is a couple hundred pages long, it is Abernathy’s story and this event is less than four pages out of it. IMMEDIATELY upon publication, King’s people DEMANDED that Abernathy denounce that passage, say that his publisher miscast it, etc. They did not object to any other passages, Bryan Gumbel (of NBC) interviewed him extensively trying to get him to renounce that passage, and a fair amount of pressure was put on Abernathy (then aged and ailing) to recant that story. If it wasn’t true, why did Abernathy put it in there? And if it was, why is it never discussed on MLK day? It doesn’t fit the narrative / deification / spin desired.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want to about MLK. I just don’t think he was perfect, as many seem to.

Llpoh
Llpoh
May 8, 2016 10:39 pm

Homer – you are denser than a lead brick. Do your own damn research.

Your bullshit about “judge a person by their achievements not their flaws” is the stupidest thing ever posted on this site, and damn, that is saying something. So it is ok for a person to lie, kill, steal, cheat, so long as they achieve?

If a person lies, cheats, steals, commits adultry, uses drugs (that would describe MLK) while artificially putting on a holier than thou face in public, that just means he is a lying, womanising piece of shit.

The world is full of assholes that accomplish a lot but are worthy of derision and ridicule. The Congress is full of them.

You are not much of a deep thinker, are you.

the tumbleweed
the tumbleweed
May 9, 2016 12:11 am

You don’t even need to know the facts about MLK. Once you realize that everything is named after him, and that you can’t criticize him without risking social and career suicide, that’s about all it takes to realize he was a douche. King was a communist radical, no different than the scoundrels we have today, but because he came much earlier, and understood incrementalism, he knew had to “play nice” with lots of trappings of equality and color of character BS.

His legacy is very similar to war maniac Abraham Lincoln, who torched half of his own country, yet you can’t escape his ugly mug. Everyone over four years old “knows” he was the “best president ever” and wrote the “amazing” Gettysburg Address even though they couldn’t tell you a single thing about it.