“Believe me, the next step is a currency crisis because there will be a rejection of the dollar, the rejection of the dollar is a big, big event, and then your personal liberties are going to be severely threatened.” – Ron Paul
As usual the MSM did its usual superficial dog and pony show for the American public on Saturday and Sunday. The overall tone on every show (not journalism) was to calm the audience. Every station had a “downgrade special” to explain why you shouldn’t panic over the downgrade of the United States. As we can see, it didn’t work. Worldwide markets went berserk. The reactions of the various players in this saga have been very enlightening to say the least.
As I watched, listened and read the views of hundreds of people over the last few days, I recalled a statement by David Walker in the documentary I.O.U.S.A. This documentary was made in late 2007 before the financial crisis hit. The documentary follows Walker, the former head of the GAO, and Bob Bixby, head of the Concord Coalition, on their Fiscal Wake Up tour.
In the film, Walker tells the audience: “We suffer from a fiscal cancer. If we don’t treat it there will be catastrophic consequences.” He argued the greatest threat to America was not a terrorist squatting in a cave in Afghanistan, but the US debt mountain. He was nervous about the increasing dependence on countries such as China, which are the biggest holders of US Treasury bonds. Bixby explained: “If you knew a levee was unsound and people were moving into that area, would you do nothing? Of course not.” These men were sounding the alarm when our National Debt was $9 trillion. Evidently, no one in Washington DC went to see the movie. They’ve added $5.5 trillion of debt to our Mount Everest of obligations.
After listening to the shills, shysters, propagandists, and paid representatives of the vested interests over the last few days, Mr. Walker’s response to someone pointing out Europe and other countries were in worse shape than the U.S. came to mind:
“What good does it do to be the best-looking horse in the glue factory?”
At the end of the documentary there was a prestigious panel of thought leaders discussing ideas to alter the country from its unsustainable fiscal path. I was shocked when Warren Buffett basically stated there was nothing to worry about:
“I’m going to be the token Pollyanna here. There is no question that our children will live better than we did. But it’s just like my investments. I try to buy shares in companies that are so wonderful, an idiot could run them, and sooner or later one will. Our country is a bit like that.”
Buffett has since turned into a Wall Street/Washington apologist, talking his book. He declared this weekend the US deserves a quadruple A rating. He has tried to protect his investments in GE, Goldman Sachs, Moodys and Wells Fargo by declaring their businesses as sound and their balance sheets clean. He is now just a standard issue sellout spewing whatever will protect his vast fortune. Truth is now optional in Buffett World.
The Oracle of Omaha has continuously bad mouthed gold and pumped up the economic prospects for the U.S. He trashed gold in his March 2011 report to shareholders:
“Gold is a way of going long on fear, and it has been a pretty good way of going long on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in a year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money, but the gold itself doesn’t produce anything.”
I guess the leadership of this country has created a bit of fear in the market, as gold has risen from $1,400 to $1,750 and Warren’s beloved financial holdings have tanked, along with the stock price of Berkshire Hathaway (down 23% since March). There seems to be an inverse relationship between the barbarous relic and lying old men shilling for the vested interests.
Vested Interests
When you watch the corporate mainstream media, or read a corporate run newspaper, or go to a corporate owned internet site you are going to get a view that is skewed to the perspective of the corporate owners. What all Americans must understand is everyone they see on TV or read in the mainstream press are part of the status quo. These people have all gotten rich under the current social and economic structure. Buffett, Kudlow, Cramer, Bartiromo, Senators, investment managers, Bill Gross, Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Jeff Immelt, and every person paraded on TV have a vested interest in propping up the existing structure. They are talking their book and their own best interests. Even though history has proven time and again the existing social order gets swept away like debris in a tsunami wave, the vested interests try to cling to their power, influence and wealth. Those benefitting from the existing economic structure will lie, obfuscate, misdirect, and use propaganda and misinformation to retain their positions.
The establishment will seek to blame others, fear monger and avoid responsibility for their actions. Ron Paul plainly explains why the US was downgraded:
“We were downgraded because of years of reckless spending, not because concerned Americans demanded we get our finances in order. The Washington establishment has spent us into near default and now a downgrade, and here they are again trying to escape responsibility for their negligence in handling the economy.”
The standard talking points you have heard or will hear from the vested interests include:
- Stocks are undervalued based on forward PE ratios.
- Ignore the volatility in the market because stocks always go up in the long run.
- Buy the f$%ing dip.
- America is not going into recession.
- The market is dropping because the Tea Party held the country hostage.
- The S&P downgrade is meaningless because they rated toxic subprime mortgages AAA in 2005 – 2007.
- The market is dropping because the debt ceiling deal will crush the economy with the horrific austerity measures.
- The S&P downgrade is meaningless because Treasury rates declined after the downgrade.
- Foreigners will continue to buy our debt because they have no other options.
- Foreigners will continue to invest in the U.S. because Europe, Japan and China are in worse shape than the U.S.
- America is still the greatest economy on the planet and the safest place to invest.
Each of these storylines is being used on a daily basis by the vested interests as they try to pull the wool over the eyes of average Americans. A smattering of truth is interspersed with lies to convince the non-thinking public their existing delusional beliefs are still valid. The storylines are false.
Here are some basic truths the vested interests don’t want you to understand:
- As of two weeks ago the stock market was 40% overvalued based upon normalized S&P earnings and was priced to deliver 3% annual returns over the next decade. The S&P 500 has lost 17%, meaning it is only 23% overvalued. Truthful analysts John Hussman, Jeremy Grantham and Robert Shiller were all in agreement about the market being 40% overvalued. This decline is not a buying opportunity.
- The S&P 500 was trading at 1,119 on April 2, 1998. The S&P 500 closed at 1,119 yesterday. In March 2000 the S&P 500 traded at 1,527. By my calculation, the stock market is 27% below its peak eleven years ago. As you can see, stocks always go up in the long run. It is just depends on your definition of long.
- The talking heads on CNBC told you to buy the dip from October 2007 through until March 2009. The result was a 50% loss of your wealth.
- The government will report the onset of recession six months after it has already begun. People who live in the real world (not NYC or Washington DC) know the country has been in recession for the last seven months. The CNBC pundits don’t want to admit we are in a recession because they know the stock market drops 40% during recessions on average and don’t want you to sell before they do.
- The stock market held up remarkably well during the debt ceiling fight. It did not begin to plunge until Obama signed the toothless joke of a bill that doesn’t “cut” one dime of spending. The markets realized the politicians in Washington DC will never cut spending. The National Debt will rise from $14.5 trillion to $20 trillion by 2015 and to $25 trillion by 2021, even with the supposed austere spending “cuts”.
- The left wing media and the frothing at the mouth leaders of the Democratic Party have conducted focus groups and concluded that blaming the extreme, terrorist Tea Party for the stock market crash and the S&P downgrade plays well to their hate mongering ignorant base. They have rolled out their rabid dogs, Joe “gaffe machine” Biden, Howard “AYAHHHHHH!!!” Dean and John “ketchup” Kerry, to eviscerate the Tea Party terrorists.
- The mainstream liberal media would like you to believe the Tea Party is an actual cohesive group that wants to throw grandmothers and the poverty stricken under the bus. The neo-cons in the Republican Party and their mouthpieces on Fox News have tried to co-opt the Tea Party movement for their purposes. There is no one Tea Party. It is a movement born of frustration with an out of control government. Ron Paul represented the Tea Party before it even existed and is the intellectual leader of the movement. His is the only honest truthful voice in this debate:
“As many frustrated Americans who have joined the Tea Party realize, we cannot stand against big government at home while supporting it abroad. We cannot talk about fiscal responsibility while spending trillions on occupying and bullying the rest of the world. We cannot talk about the budget deficit and spiraling domestic spending without looking at the costs of maintaining an American empire of more than 700 military bases in more than 120 foreign countries. We cannot pat ourselves on the back for cutting a few thousand dollars from a nature preserve or an inner-city swimming pool at home while turning a blind eye to a Pentagon budget that nearly equals those of the rest of the world combined.”
- S&P’s opinion about any debt should be taken with a grain of salt. They, along with Warren Buffet’s friends at Moodys, were bought and sold by the Wall Street criminal element. Anyone with a smattering of math skill and an ounce of critical thinking would have concluded the U.S. was a bad credit three years ago. A Goldman Sachs trader had this opinion of the brain dead analysts at Moodys: “Guys who can’t get a job on Wall Street get a job at Moody’s.” Michael Lewis, in his book The Big Short, summarized the view of the rating agencies:
“Wall Street bond trading desks, staffed by people making seven figures a year, set out to coax from the brain-dead guys making high five figures the highest possible ratings for the worst possible loans. They performed the task with Ivy League thoroughness and efficiency.”
- The most laughable storyline spouted by the Democrats and their lapdogs on MSNBC is the extreme austerity measures forced on the country by the Tea Party has caused the stock market to collapse. The plan “cuts” $22 billion in 2012 and $42 billion in 2013. Over this time frame, the Federal government will spend $7.4 TRILLION. The horrific spending “cuts” amount to .86% of spending over the next two years. Meanwhile, we will add at least $3 trillion to the National Debt over this same time frame. Of course, we could listen to Paulie “Spend More” Krugman and add $6 trillion to the national debt with another stimulus package. When a Keynesian solution fails miserably, just declare it would have worked if it was twice the size.
- Barack Obama, the James Buchanan of our times, gave one of the worst Presidential speeches in the history of our country yesterday. In full hubristic fury he declared the United States of America would ALWAYS be a AAA country. The American Exceptionalism dogma is so very amusing. We are chosen by God to lead the world. Barack should have paid closer attention in history class. The Roman, Dutch, Spanish and British Empires all fell due to their hubris, fiscal mismanagement and overseas military exploits. The American Empire has fallen and can’t get up.
And now we come to the $100 trillion question. The establishment/vested interests/status quo declares the United States as the safest place in the world for investors. They frantically point out that people are pouring money into our Treasuries and interest rates are declining. They hysterically blurt out that Europe has much bigger problems than the U.S. and China’s real estate bubble will implode in the near future. These are the same people who told you the internet had created a new paradigm and NASDAQ PE ratios of 150 in 2000 were reasonable. The NASDAQ soared to 5,000 in early 2000. Today it trades at 2,358, down 53% eleven years later. These are the same people who told you they aren’t making more land and home prices in 2005 were reasonable. They told you home prices had never fallen nationally in our history, so don’t worry. Prices are down 35% and still falling today.
Medicare and Medicaid spending rose 10% in the second quarter of 2011 from a year earlier to a combined annual rate of almost $992 billion, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). The two programs are likely to crack $1 trillion before the end of the year. Medicare’s unfunded liability alone amounts to $353,350 per U.S. household. The National Debt will reach 100% of GDP in the next four months as we relentlessly add $4 billion per day to our Mount Everest of debt. Federal spending in 2007 was $2.7 trillion. Today, they are spending $3.8 trillion of your money. The country does not have a revenue problem. We have a spending addiction and the addict needs treatment. Doctor Ron Paul has our prognosis:
“When the federal government spends more each year than it collects in tax revenues, it has three choices: It can raise taxes, print money, or borrow money. While these actions may benefit politicians, all three options are bad for average Americans.”
The politicians and bankers who control the developed world have made the choice to print money and create more debt as their solution to an un-payable debt problem. Europe, Japan, the U.S., and virtually every country in the world want to devalue their way out of a debt problem created over the last forty years. It has become a race to the bottom, with no winners. Every country can’t devalue their currency simultaneously without blowing up the entire worldwide monetary system. But, it appears they are going to try. The United States will never actually default on its debts. Ben Bernanke will attempt to default slowly by paying back the interest and principal to foreigners in ever more worthless fiat dollars. This will work until the foreigners decide to pull the plug. For now interest rates are low and the U.S. is the best looking horse in the glue factory. But we all know what happens to all the horses in the glue factory – even Mr. Ed.
“It is true that liberty is not free, nor is it easy. But tyranny – even varying degrees of it – is much more difficult, and much more expensive. The time has come to rein in the federal government, put it on a crash diet, and let the people keep their money and their liberty.” – Ron Paul
Read, read and then read some more.
gmills: If you want a sovereign currency, then don’t complain about big banking, big defense, big agra, etc. (You shouldn’t complain anyway because that’s who the regulations protect). There won’t be a middle class with a sovereign currency. You’ll have the fat corporations, politicians, execs along with those whose basic “needs” will be supplied with freshly printed cash. Why be productive when I can have freshly printed cash handed to me? It doesn’t matter whether I run my company in the black or red, just lobby for that freshly printed sovereign currency. You’re nuts, that system is corporate/individual welfare and nanny state to the extreme.
“But if the government had to, it could coin a trillion dollar coin, as was recently suggested by a number of economist.” HYPERINFLATION
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Admin: That’s the best cartoon you’ve posted in weeks.
I missed most of the fun on this one.
davidgmills is fucking progressive lawyer. Is there anything worse in the whole world? These bozos have the banksters beat by a long-shot. I loved reading all the legalese bullshit this maggot abortion wrote. Maggot shit piled on top of a maggot abortion. Bottom line: a fucking piece of shit. Him and his ilk have all but destroyed this country. See my above post.
Here’s one for ya big Dave:
The devil visited a lawyer’s office and made him an offer. “Here’s the deal” the devil said. “I’ll increase your income five-fold. Your partners will love you; your clients will respect you; you will have a passionate affair with an associate and your wife will never find out, you’ll have four months of vacation each year and live to be a hundred. All I want in return is that your wife’s soul, your children’s souls, and their children’s souls rot in hell for eternity.”
The lawyer thought for a moment. “So what’s the catch?” he asked
The devil is having to renovate Hell to include all the lawyers…
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Thanks Jim, I had to download that one.
“Shakespeare didn’t literally mean it when he said that the first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers, but you can forgive folks for smiling at the thought, given that the legal profession, collectively and with our complicity, is stripping America of personal accountability and trust. All of us, in ways large and small, partially are responsible for this erosion of integrity, but I place the greatest culpability, with notable exceptions, on attorneys – especially corporate lawyers.”
John Huntsman, “Winners never cheat”
David – you say SS is an investment? Hahahahahahahahaha! It is a giant ponzi scheme.
But thanks, that was sure funny.
llpoh, you can lead a horse to water, but…
(speaking of glue factories, that is)
Petey. There’s not much of a middle class now. The influence peddlers already have the government by the balls. If they are going to get vast sums of money off the government tit, then at least let it be without debt. There is no reason you and I should be taxed to pay the debt these corporations and banks force the government to incur.
Congress shall have the power to coin money, and to regulate the value thereof. Article I Section 8, US Constitution. I say give them the power back the way the framers gave it to them in the first place. Give the founders some credit. They knew a bit about being screwed by corporate and governmental power.
lloph: And the stock market isn’t a giant ponzi scheme?
Stick your money under a mattress if you really want it to be safe. That is until your destitute neighbors riot and take it away.
Dm….
See? You’re already addicted to TBP… admit it. You had to look again and respond.
At least cite the fucking case you mentioned so I can post it myself… (Hooray Google Scholar)
Welcome aboard the TBP train to the Wild West. The party’s more fun when there’s whiskey, but watch out for the injuns… they’ll steal your horse when you aren’t looking.
David…I have a dinner date for this evening so it’ll be late when I get in .
As a lawyer surely you know that the preamble of the Constitution carries no weight of law. That has been decided as it should. A preamble is merely an introduction to the body of a document.
Why during the first 160 years of our Nation wasn’t money appropriated for the General Welfare of the citizens individually ? I’ll tell you why, because those in Congress new that they had no right under the Constitution to appropriate money for the citizen’s private use. Hence my quote from Davey Crockett on the appropriation of funds for a war widow.
The General Welfare clause has nothing to do with appropriations for the citizens of the USA. It is a contract between the states and the new government and the General Welfare is for those United States.
There are only five rights spoken of in the Constitution that deal with individual rights…the writ of Hebeas Corpus, no bill of attainder and ex post facto laws being passed,the rules regarding treason,protection of writings and discoveries of individuals and the election of the House by the people .
I will right more later…gotta go !
Fuck…I’ll write more…bye !
David – my money is under my mattress. I sold at the top. Thanks for asking.
David – you aren’t an entire idiot (around here that amounts to high praise so don’t take offense). As you may be seeing the folks around her have different skillsets, but be assured there is always someone who knows a great deal about almost any topic that comes up.
With respect to the general welfare issue, politicians would love to use that clause to justify any fucking thing they dream up – and defend it b saying it is in the general interest. It was obviously not intended to be a catch all to allow politicians total control. “It is in the general welfare we have martial law, etc.etc.etc.” Bullshit. But of course the politicians will try it out, and folks such as yourself will wheel it out to defend the actions that they want defended.
AwholeDR.
I appreciate your take, esp. regarding the spiritual (not religious). Hard work, family/business doing what needs to be done each day to take care of family and business is a spiritual work. It is a battle everyday against our just going out and doing what I want to do, my nature is selfish, my nature is “guy”. I must get up everyday look in the mirror and say “My name is Constman and I am responsible”. That is a spiritual work.
Secondly, Americans need to realize that they are not special. What makes you, American, any more special than some poor slop born in Haiti? Absolutely nothing. You are not special, but something special has happened to you!! Get the difference? If you understand that you are not special, but that something special has happened to you (born in the USA…….) then you begin to understand that you have a great responsibility to take care of what has been entrusted to you.
These things (and others) have been pounded into me by a great man who never lets me forget who I am, what I am and how thankful I need to be everyday for what has been entrusted to me.
It’s Family first/Business First/ I’m not special, but something special has happened to me/ & My name is ……. and I am responsible.
llpoh: The general welfare is what Congress says it is or what the courts say it is. They decide what it means — not you or me. They can change what it means over time. None of us were around in 1789 so none of us really appreciate what the founding fathers went through or really understand all he subtleties of the terminology of the day, so none of us really know what the founding fathers meant by any phrase in the Constitution. And even back then, it probably meant different things to different people. But one things courts have continually held and that Congress has maintained over the years is that the Constituition must be flexible enough to deal with the problems of the time.
Buckhead: As for the preamble, it is not law, but it is an expression of intent, and courts always look to expressions of intent when they are interpreting the law; and Congress also can look at the preamble as an expression of what the founding fathers wanted to accomplish when they created this government. So the preamble is important although it is not law.
But I think we can all agree that the USA, if it is not already, is turning into an oligarchy. And an oligarchy is capable of corrupting the government. The reason only 17% of Americans believe they government is ruling with the consent of the governed is because we all know it just seems to be loaded with corruption.
The problem is that the oligarchs and all branches of the government do not fear the people. Until they start fearing the people, I think the corruption will continue unabated.
Constman, nice to have you commenting. Hope we hear more from you in the future.
David – first you say: “The general welfare is what Congress says it is or what the courts say it is. They decide what it means — not you or me. They can change what it means over time.”
Then you say “As for the preamble, it is not law, but it is an expression of intent, and courts always look to expressions of intent when they are interpreting the law; and Congress also can look at the preamble as an expression of what the founding fathers wanted to accomplish when they created this government.”
So which is it – do we follow the intent, or do we interprett it as we see fit given “current” circumstances? Me – I believe that intent is the way to go wherever possible. And there was no intent for a welfare state.
Very interesting article. I believe the system is a set up. Unelected bankers are running the show..
See link below:
http://graysinfo.blogspot.com/2011/08/world-banking-politburo.html
llpoh: Define welfare state. Do you mean governmental assistance to the poor, or assistance to the disabled or governmental guarantees to persons who have paid into a system of benefits?
Hypothetical question:
Suppose a vaccine was discovered that added thirty years of life expectancy to anyone who got it but its cost was $25,000 per person and this cost could not be significantly reduced even when produced in batches of hundreds of millions.
Should the government give assistance to those who desperately want it but can’t afford it. If so, why? if not, why not?
David – 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) SS is NOT a system of benefits – it is an insurance system that has psuedo-morphed such that people believe that they are paying into a bank which they can later withdraw – which is 100% untrue, was never intended to be true, and which the courts have ruled to be untrue. It is an unsustainable Ponzi scheme. People draw on average 2 to 3 times more out of the “system” than they ever put in, even allowing for growth of the “investment” and the only way it has survived until now is that the number of contributors has far exceeded the number of “beneficiaries”. As Bommers retire, there will be insufficient contributors, and then it is lights out, unless benefits are drastially reduced or the tax is drastically increased.
With regard to # 2 (a trick question, I am sure!) all that is necessary to prove that such a system is unworkable is to not how many folks are currently drawing disability in the US – over 8 MILLION and climbing like a rocket. These welfare systems, perhaps good intentioned, are rife with abuse, and there is simply no way to control the abuse. If you put a charitable system up, it will be abused – no ifs/ands/or buts. Plus these systems kill incentive.
Only in perhaps the last five decades or so did any world governments begin to offer carte blanche charity to their citizens. It has failed. Current studies show that European nations have been hit so hard by their welfare systems that their GDPs are perhaps as much as 40% lower than they would be if the welfare state had not been implemented. So I say this – if Europe had as a whole a GDP 40% higher than currently is the case, overall the people of Europe would be vastly better off – including the disabled. There wouldn’t be so many “poor” as they would be employed. and enough charity would flow voluntarily such that truly needy would be taken care of.
Welfare states are failing and will fail. Human nature will ensure it happens. Slashing growth/GDP by approximately 2% per annum indefinitely is no way to ensure the general welfare of the nation.
Right now I donate modestly to charities. I for one would donate much ore heavily if the government didn’t force me to donate but rather left the decision to me.
Welfare states are failing world-wide. It is a failed system. No matter that people want the world to be a kinder, gentler place. It is a failed system and all of the good-intentions in the world will not stop the process.
David – re your hypothetical question, in the dollars you quote it may be possible to create an economic model and see if it is a wothwhile investment. Decision on life and death are made every day – and are based on economics. A actuary could model it.
But there is no right to government supported life – none whatsoever. To illustrate, take it to the extreme – say that the cost of extending one life for any period of time cost the entire wealth of the nation. Of course the life would not be extended. Therefore, it is clear that the government does not and cannot grant the right to extend life. It is an economic decision in the end.
The same argument can be applied to welfare of any kind. Governments simply cannot guarantee the right to welfare, as ultimately the cost can reach unsustainable levels – which has already happened. So no such right can be granted. And any attempt to grant partial rights has seen such severe escalation of costs that the nation inevitably goes broke.
So the answer must lie inpersonal accountability, and the government, instead of looking to be a charitable foundation, should instead focus on promoting commerce and industry, family values, and defense of the population.
David…you didn’t answer my question…why didn’t the government provide money to citizens for their welfare for the first 160 years of our Nation ?
What is a welfare state….pretty easy ..A welfare state is any form of government that takes the wealth of one group of citizens to be redistributed to other group of citizens . As Bastiat said and I love to reiterate…Taking from someone without their permission is stealing.
Most of the rulings of the court that I recall reading is whether the Preamble conveys rights not found in the Constitution .I don’t recall a ruling on the intent of the Preamble ?
The only case in which the Supreme Court has directly addressed a claim based on the Preamble is Jacobson vs Mass. In this case the court rejected his claim to a personal right, derived from then Preamble, to the “blessings of liberty”. In rejecting Jacobson’s claim, the Court wrote that “the Preamble indicates the general purpose for which the people ordained and established the Constitution” and went on to point out that “[the Preamble] has never been regarded as the source of any substantive power conferred on the Government.
LLPOH…could you donate to my Wine,Women and Song Charity…it’s down a few bucks after tonight’s dinner date .
Buckhed – it seems that your investment did not pay off, or you would not now have time to write. Bad luck. But bad luck, or in your case failure to properly evaluate cost/benefit, on your behalf does not translate into a charitable contribution on my behalf.
I used to have a rule – if I went out, I knew that if I wanted to get drunk, I would be successful 100 times out of 100 attempts, but my odds of getting lucky were significantly less than that. So I tended to go with the odds.
David – by now you must realize that hammering away on the theme that the Constitution somehow supports, or can be seen to support, the creation of a welfare state is not a real winner on this site.
@Buckhead and llpoh:
I like Buckhead’s definition of taking wealth from one group of citizens and giving it to another group of citizens. Since about 1% of the population has stolen half the wealth of the country from about 80% of the population through the assistance of the government, I must agree we are indeed a welfare state by his definition.
Whether you want to call SS an investment or insurance makes no difference to me. It is like an insurance policy in that you don’t get to use it until you reach a certain age. If you don’t get to the age of benefit, then you don’t get benefits.
This business about SS running out of money is flat hooey. The average black male life expectancy is 69 so right now the government only has to pay four years on the average black male. The average white male is about 76 so the government only has to pay about 11 years on the average white male. Women get a few more years. We simply don’t live that long past 65. So I ain’t buying none of that bs about it going broke any time soon. The dollars we put in simply don’t equate with life expectancy.
It’s just absolute accounting bs as far as I am concerned. And disability before 65 is damn hard to get. And most of the people who do qualify for it have short life expectancies after they get it.
Medicare is another story. But its problem is medical cost for which we pay about twice per person as any other developed country. As we speak, my 90 year old father in law who really beat the life expectancy average is in the hospital getting ridiculous numbers of tests. Just jacks the costs out of sight.
All the rest of the developed countries have some sort of government insured medicine that keeps costs low. I know you guys hate the idea. But to me its like education. I want the choice of public insurance or private insurance just like I want the choice of public or private schools.
As for why we didn’t take care of our citizens for the first 160 years. Well, we just came out of the dark ages back then. We were still trying to get out of the feudalistic era. Many many steps to climb. Of course now we are entering the neofeudalistic era. So maybe we should all return to the days when we were serfs and enjoy the benefits of serfdom once again.
And all those welfare states like Sweden and Finland and Norway and Denmark and Germany all have the highest quality of life now. Just imagine how high that quality would be if only they had a few more bucks by working a few more hours a year.
And of course Germany just happens to make the best products in the world in that welfare socialistic state. Damn must be from the disincentive of having a good life.
David – and here is where the conversation tends to go from civil to feral. The crap you post about “you don’t buy it” is just crap and isn’t supported by any facts whatsoever. You are wrong, and in this at least, stupid. A great many SS receipients do not start at 65. A lot start earlier (didn’t I mention the 8 million on disability? Of fucking course I did.). Go onto the net and get some facts before you shoot your mouth off. Really, do some research. What you believe you simply cannot support with facts, but you want to hang on to your leftist ” but -I -paid – in -so – am -entitled” bullshit in the face of all facts to the contrary. And referencing you statement re blacks, what say you do a bit of research on the break-out on who is getting the disability payments I mentioned before. Just how in hell do you think the country is running a $1.6 trillion dollar a year deficit? Gee, there is all of that SS money flowing in! Horseshit.
As for you 1% has stolen from the 80% crappola, I am in that 1%, and I assure you I haven’t stolen from anyone. Indeed, I have built a business, against the odds, and employ people. But to you I am a thief. See, there you go again, talking down to people, and you do not have a fucking clue. So fuck you, asshole. I just love it when people call me a thief.
And your shit about quality of life – what a load. If they worked more hours, they would drop down the quality of life list – or didn’t you know that? One of the main measurements is leisure time. And, of course, they do not measure how far in debt they are going in order to pay for that quality of life, now do they? The more you borrow to spend on goodies, the higher you are apt to go on the list. Not that all of them on the list are in trouble. But for fuck sake, why do people trot out these success stories for nations with what, 5 million people? Gee, they are good examples.
Go do some research, educate yourself, and quit trying to justify your lefty positions via a perverse reading of the Constitution. The facts speak plainly, but you are too clueless to actually use facts, instead you want to ignore them or claim they are some “accounting bs”. Wow – now there is an argument. Ok – my bad – you win. Your gut feeling trumps my facts any time.
And, as I said, the idea of welfare states has failed (just have a fucking look around – the entire welfare world is broke and going up in flames. And you can’t see it? Holy crap!), your “dark ages” comments not withstanding. All of your hopes and dreams of a new kinder, gentler world are fading into dust. The world simply does not function that way. Too bad so sad.
As I said, you are not stupid. But if you are going to come around here, you really need to educate yourself and quit spouting lefty propaganda you can’t back up with any more than your gut feeling. It just ain’t gonna play, and I will no longer be nice about it.
llpoh~
hope you enjoyed yourself.
davidgmills
Well, golly, this was an entertaining read. I had a point to address on your first post but I decided to read through and see if anyone else brought it up. Flemming v. Nestor.
Admin and llpoh will speak of the insurance aspect of Social Security as an insurance scheme; and that is rather in alignment with the legislation. Unfortunately, the legaese is not what was sold to the people. The 1936 SS pamphlet clearly stated: “you are saving for your retirement” and a lot more promises that were broken. Good year that, I was born then — and no, I did not read it then (but I learned to read before I was five years old and kept up the habit.)
That “saving” bit in itself was a lie. The first people paying in could not be saving for themselves if they were also paying for those who came before. Here’s an example:
“The first monthly payment was issued on January 31, 1940 to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont. In 1937, 1938 and 1939 she paid a total of $24.75 into the Social Security System. Her first check was for $22.54. After her second check, Fuller already had received more than she contributed over the three-year period. She lived to be 100 and collected a total of $22,888.92.”
One has to wonder about a social support scheme that is in the hole when it starts. At least Otto von Bismarck’s world first retirement/aged pension plan was set up to work, kind of … he promised retirement at age 60 with a government pension. The average lifespan then was 46.
Heh. Even one of FDR’s brain trust said, “This is a Ponzi scheme, isn’t it?” Of course, the whole idea was set up based on population growth to cover the backloading. Hey, some of your 40 years of contributions could be coming to me! LOL. And what was even more embarrassing was when someone pointed out, you know, no one has deductions now, and they pay their tax in the following year? So ’36 tax due” with a SS hit right now would be a double dip, the people won’t like it.
That’s why Ida May had no 1936 contribution. Instead, they kindly decided to waive the 1937 tax bite. to implement SS. “We’ll make up the revenue loss on volume.” Or something.
So you claim not to be a progressive but surely you must be, for the basic reason that progressives can’t do simple arithmetic.
I’d like to comment on economic history of the 19th century, as well as the dearth of education in those dismal times, what with no safety nets, income tax, nor much appreciation of the general welfare clause. Strange, though, how simple farmers could read the King James bible and discuss politics and the economy and know what they were talking about.
Maybe tomorrow. I’d like to read more than one article on this site tonight.
Have a nice day.
I will link to this from my Old Jarhead blog. Every day we drift closer to the abyss. It grows increasingly difficult for me to see how we avoid a fiscal collapse, followed by a political and social collapse. Personally, as long as I don’t think about my granddaughter, postponing the implosion is good; I’m 65 and have pulmonary fibrosis, which is eventually terminal, so I may escape the coming desperate years. Unfortunately, the changes needed are so politically painful, they will only happen when the pain of not changing is greater. I hope I’m wrong, but I greatly fear that will involve riots and bloodshed in the streets.
Robert A. Hall
Author: The Coming Collapse of the American Republic
(All royalties go to a charity to help wounded veterans)
Welcome, Robert. Hope to see you posting more commentary here. Your insight as a former MA state senator and a historian would be great to have.
Everyone, here is Robert’s blog: http://tartanmarine.blogspot.com/
THE ORACLE SEES NO ECONOMIC DOWNTURN – WHAT A FOOL!!!
NEW YORK | Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:32pm EDT
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Warren Buffett has been buying amid this week’s sharp declines in the market, and has not yet seen anything that suggests another downturn is emerging, the legendary investor told Fortune magazine.
In an interview published on Thursday, Buffett also told the magazine he understood why Standard & Poor’s lowered its outlook on the credit rating of his conglomerate Berkshire Hathaway, but said he disagreed with the underlying premise – the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating.
The 80-year-old “Oracle of Omaha” is known for his love of a good deal, which is why his company made an unsolicited offer below book value for reinsurance company Transatlantic Holdings last weekend, and why Berkshire sold $2 billion of senior unsecured notes this week at historically low rates.
In that vein, Buffett told Fortune Managing Editor Andy Serwer the market declines have not fazed him.
“The lower things go, the more I buy. We are in the business of buying,” he said, adding that he had “never been better.”
Buffett also told the magazine that he was not seeing fresh indications of the economy turning bad again, though things could change if market conditions do not improve.
“Up until right now, all of our businesses have been coming back — even Europe isn’t doing that badly — except for businesses relating to home construction which is on its rear end,” Buffett said.
Ok, so “Progressive Lawyer” doesn’t seem to be a lawyer at all… No citations and not even a hint at what philosophy of jurisprudence he holds. Natural Law? Positivism? Anything?
Type of law practiced?
Judging solely on his comments, he does hold the supposed abilities of the State to function with any degree of efficiency in high esteem, but that can be acquired by simply watching the MSM.
Doesn’t know the history of Progism, either.
Cite the fucking cases so we can read the opinions is the first thing…. without this simple act I, and so should all, consider the posts by dmills as bogus. It’s not hard, and the cases are public.
I’m not entirely anti-lawyer, but saying you’re a lawyer is about as specific as… well, nothing.
Colma – I am too soft hearted. I tried to give him a chance but he cannot help himself. He thinks his gut-feelings are superior to the facts we mere mortals use. I am through with him. It is now open season if he happens by again. Which I doubt will happen.
Guys, I really do think he is/was a troll. His initial, “Hope you guys catch on” was quickly replaced with, “I am just an inquiring mind. I just want to know.”
Then, when he’s pointed toward three articles Jim has written about the insolvency of SS — backed up by facts — he claims it’s “flat hooey.” Yet he offers no facts of his own.
He’s pushing your buttons. But cleverly, which makes me think he’s been here before, under a different name. He knows who he wants to pick on and avoids those he doesn’t.
Then again, there is an attorney who goes by that name, who does personal injury law in Tennessee and Texas. And belongs to a 9/11 truther group. Draw your own conclusions.
Thinker – I would have picked him for an ambulance chaser. And as for being a truther, my first thoughts would be he is too dense to be part of that group but maybe they lowered their standards.
Good investigative job.
Llpoh, Thinker:
It does make sense, doesn’t it…
A few common sense adjustments (see below) here and there that wouldn’t severely piss off anybody would give the country some time to adjust to the coming shit storm of energy shortages and environmental catastrophe, but NO…we have to spend most of our time calling each other names instead of humbly engaging in dialogue.
Examples of adjustments: Re-instate Glass-Steagall and put the top managers of the too big to fail banks in jail, increase the taxes on the 1% of super-high earners who make 22% of the national wealth from their current burden of 21% of national income taxes paid to 22% of national income taxes paid, change all local property tax scheme to a tax on land value instead of the value of improvements, dismantle the excesses of our corrupt military-industrial-congressional world-wide empire, revert to Senators elected by state legislators, cut BOTH individual and corporate welfare, do some common sense tinkering with the revenue and retirement age scheme in Social Security since with small changes we will be able to keep it going past the boomer hump if we do everything else listed here, raise the threshold for estate tax to trigger to an amount so high ($100,000,000 sound like a good start) and then raise the actual rate of the tax rate so as to raise come really good sums, even the playing field between small business and big business by making all un-earned (investment) income below $250,000 per year tax free, and then tax all retained business income from any type of business at the same rate as personal income, ban private medical insurance so as to break up the corrupt government supported medical care cartel and then for those who wish not to go into the medical care market on a cash basis open up the existing taxpayer paid VA system with all its limitations to all citizens, ban any and all fundraising by any incumbent politician and then publicly finance his re-election campaign at a reasonable percent of the amount raised by his challengers under an unrestricted but fully disclosed campaign finance system, restore sound money based upon a free floating bi-metal (gold/silver) system.
Did I miss anything?
Obviously I wouldn’t have found this site if I thought “we the people” had the common sense and unity to achieve the above mentioned reforms. I probably found this site through a link to maxkeiser.com or Charles Hughs Smith’s oftwominds.com. Nonetheless it provided good entertain while continue to stack silver and gold bullion, ammunition, preserved food, cultivated land, and supportive community in preparation for the coming shit storm.
…Oh…and by the way…Howard Dean would have made a great president.
I’m back guys.
So it takes citations to prove one is a lawyer. That’s a new one. I guess I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t. I did mention the greenback cases though I didn’t cite them. But someone wanted to discuss the Constitution without reference to what the SC said about it so I just used the language of the Constitution pertinent to this thread. Apparently some one else thinks I should cite cases. Can’t please everybody.
I am licensed in both TN and TX and its not hard to find out from those bars who I am. Check me out if you are interested.
I have never hid my identity on the internet. I kinda resent anonymous posters who take cheap shots.
As for being a troll. I went back and checked to see how I landed here. I stumbled here on a link from whatreallyhappened.com, which I have visited almost daily for a number of years. I like Michael Rivero.
Never heard of this blog before I landed here this week and still don’t know what it is.
Novista? Are you getting your SS check? If so, maybe the insurance is still working. I know my 90 year old father in law and 86 year old mother in law are still regularly getting theirs. Never heard them complain about it at all. And never heard many complaints about their medicare. Oh, and they are lifetime Republicans. My parents were also Republicans and they got their checks up until they died.
I expect to get my SS too, even though I haven’t been a Republican since high school, which was about the time I outgrew Republicanism.
Now whether or not I will ever be able to count on my SEP, that is the question. But so far my in-laws still are doing fine with their investments. So maybe I shouldn’t worry about the stock market either. Maybe Buffet is right. Maybe the Wall Street Ponzi scheme is perpetual.
I don’t really think you guys have done much to refute what I have said.
Of course it is hard to refute the actual clear text of the Constitution.
So I will reiterate the two clauses I think pertain to this thread:
1.Congress has the power to provide for the general welfare,
and 2. to coin money and regulate the value thereof.
davidgmills is back!!!
YAWN
I’m back. Here’s the market forces at work and corruption at its best. Check it out.
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/ciavarella-sentenced-to-28-years-surrenders-to-u-s-marshals-1.1187352#ixzz1UjNeeQ46
David- no ambulances to chase? And you must either not be too good about it or else you would be one of the top 1 percent thieves you speak of. Ignorant shyster.
@David
Obama should have just directed the mint to produce a $3 Trillion dollar platinum coin, deposited in the Treasury and told Congress to get f**cked regarding the debt ceiling…but, no…that wouldn’t have set up the sheeple sufficiently for further slow boiling as the powers to be use pretend and extend to keep the current zombie financial system shuffling along for a few more years.
Casa – that is even stupider than the shyster. Unless of course you are looking to ramp up inflation. Printing money by the trillions will do that you know.
What we after would be no inflation or controlled low inflation so as to preserve the assets of those that have any, combined with reduced expenditures sufficient to allow us to meet our debts. Rampant inflation will destroy the saving of the middle class – which they worked for honestly and diligiently – while leaving the mega-rich largely untouched.
llpoh:
I don’t advocate government induced hyperinflation, but at the same time I believe that if the executive branch honestly and openly printed money the public awareness that would generate would lead to quicker reform than the kabuki theater we recently witnessed with the debt ceiling debacle. I believe the political negotiations over how to establish a more sound budget policy will proceed more directly without the debt ceiling farce. When a small interest group can use a phony excuse like the debt ceiling to refuse to participate in the building of a political consensus then everyone looses.
llpoh:
…and with political deadlock (in my opinion, purposeful) inflation will most certainly continue to ramp up.
So is my idea still stupid or just different from your’s?