“War forces ‘national planning’. To permit total mobilization of your country’s economy, you gladly surrender many freedoms. You know regimentation was forced by your country’s enemies.”
———— “The Road To Serfdom”, Step 1
“Criticism of the decisions made during war only come from people who have never fought in a war but you sure have enjoyed the results of all those men dying. Right?”
———— Village Idiot (bb) to me, referring to D-Day and WWII
Well, let’s take a look at The Good War, and the “results” I have “enjoyed”.
BEFORE THE WAR —- FDR’S NEW DEAL
Herbert Hoover couldn’t adequately deal with the Great Depression. So, disgusted Americans elected FDR in 1932. FDR’s campaign promises in 1932 were to; cut federal spending, balance the budget, maintain a sound currency, and stop bureaucratic centralization in Washington. That didn’t work out to well. Instead he gave Americans a bewildering, incoherent mass of new expenditures, taxes, subsidies, regulations, and direct government participation in every aspect of economic activity. For starters, how about 47 new Federal Programs and Agencies implemented between 1933 – 1939? Listed in order of implementation;
Emergency Banking Act , Government Economy Act, Beer-Wine Revenue Act, Civilian Conservation Corps, Abandonment of Gold Standard, Federal Emergency Relief Act, Agricultural Adjustment Act, Emergency Farm Mortgage Act, Tennessee Valley Authority Act,, Securities Act, Abrogation of Gold Payment Clause, Home Owners Refinancing Act, Establish the Home Owners Loan Corporation (HOLC), Glass-Steagall Banking Act, creation of Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, National Industrial Recovery Act, create the Public Works Administration (PWA), Emergency Railroad Transportation Act , Civil Works Administration , Gold Reserve Act, National Housing Act, create the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), Securities Exchange Act, Federal Communications Act , Soil Conservation & Domestic Allotment Act, Emergency Relief Appropriation, Works Progress Administration , Rural Electrification Act , National Labor Relations Act /Wagner Act, Resettlement Act, Social Security Act (SSA), creation of Social Security Trust Fund, United States Housing Act, Bonneville Power Administration, Farm Tenancy Act, Farm Security Administration, Federal National Mortgage Association (FNMA), New Agricultural Adjustment Act, Fair Labor Standards Act, Federal Security Agency
[Side Note: It has been said that FDR was much loved, and that’s why he was elected four times. That’s not true. The 1936 election is touted as one of the biggest landslides in history. Nevertheless, some guy named “Alf” was able to garner 17 Million votes. Look again at the above 47 acts … WHO benefits? Old folks, young folks, blacks, poor folks [supposedly], Unions, farmers, and anyone wanting or owning a home, amongst others. In other words, enormous swaths of the country needing free shit. Even blacks, loyal to the Republican Party ever since the Civil War, abandoned the GOP in exchange for the pitiful relief payments and crap jobs in the federal work-relief programs. It’s called Buying Votes. John T. Flynn, in his book, ‘The Roosevelt Myth’, said ——– “it was always easy to interest him in a plan which would confer some special benefit upon some special class in the population in exchange for their votes,” and that eventually “no political boss could compete with him in any county in America in the distribution of money and jobs.”]
In a 1936 book called ‘The Menace of Roosevelt and His Policies’, Howard E. Kershner wrote that Roosevelt; ——– “took charge of our government when it was comparatively simple, and for the most part confined to the essential functions of government, and transformed it into a highly complex, bungling agency for throttling business and bedeviling the private lives of free people. It is no exaggeration to say that he took the government when it was a small racket and made a large racket out of it.”
Under heavy criticism for all this crapola even FDR himself eventually said that he was — “not willing that the vitality of our people be further sapped by the giving of doles, of market baskets, by a few hours of weekly work cutting grass, raking leaves, or picking up papers in the public parks.” But, just like his broken campaign promises, the Free Shit Handouts did continue throughout his Presidency.
FDR’s true colors should have been apparent to everyone after his first inaugural speech when he said ——- “we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline.”. Then he made a comment Obama would have been proud of by warning Congress that if they didn’t do his bidding he would seek —— “broad executive power to wage a war against the emergency as great as the power that would be given me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe.” FDR, the new King, swinging his E.O. pen from the Bully Pulpit … it won’t be the last time a president ignores the will of the people.
FDR often clung to the analogy that just as war was a national emergency, so was the current economic climate. Just as in war the government controls and mobilizes the economy, so should the government do likewise in this economic national emergency. Aside from the fact that whenever the government declares a war on any aspect of social / economic life (i.e.; war on drugs, war on poverty, war on racism, war on obesity, etc.) that the war always ends it dismal failure, is the fact that successfully prosecuting a war has virtually nothing in common with the necessary requisites of getting an economy out of a depression. But FDR was determined to change every aspect of the American landscape, a war where the protagonist was the American Government, and the victims the American People who voted the scoundrels into office. As expected, his war on the economic national emergency would fail. Eventually, only a real war would save his ass …. and preserve Big Daddy government he perfected.
Prior to the Good War, exactly how did things work out? In 1939, ten years after its onset and six years after the commencement of the New Deal, 9.5 million persons, or 17.2% of the labor force, still remained officially unemployed …with 3 million of those “employed” being enrolled in emergency government make-work shovel-ready projects. As late as June 1939, industrial production remained significantly below 1929 levels (81 vs. 100).
Furthermore, mounting evidence makes it clear that poor people were principal victims of the New Deal. New Deal programs were financed by tripling federal taxes from $1.6 billion in 1933 to $5.3 billion in 1940. Excise taxes, personal income taxes, inheritance taxes, corporate income taxes, holding company taxes and so-called “excess profits” taxes all went up. New Deal taxes were major job destroyers during the 1930s. Higher business taxes meant that employers had less money for growth and jobs. Social Security excise taxes on payrolls made it more expensive for employers to hire people, which discouraged hiring. The National Industrial Recovery Act cut back production and forced wages above market levels, making it more expensive for employers to hire people – blacks alone were estimated to have lost some 500,000 jobs because of the NIRA. The NIRA forced consumers to pay above-market prices for goods and services, and the Agricultural Adjustment Act forced Americans to pay more for food. Amazingly, FDR banned discounting by signing the Anti-Chain Store Act and the Retail Price Maintenance Act.
The most important source of New Deal revenue were excise taxes levied on alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, matches, candy, chewing gum, margarine, fruit juice, soft drinks, cars, tires, telephone calls, movie tickets, playing cards, electricity, radios – in other words, the New Deal was substantially financed by the middle class and poor people. Consumers had less money to spend, and employers had less money for growth and jobs. It wasn’t until 1942, in the midst of World War II, that income taxes exceeded excise taxes for the first time under FDR.
By 1939 the whole damn house of cards was about to tumble. Unemployment climbed back over 20%. This, despite cartelizing industry, subsidizing farmers, creating massive make-work projects, promoting organized labor, and launching the modern welfare state (social security, minimum wage laws, AFDC) …. all funded by a combination of increased debt, excise taxes, and high progressive income taxation. Even FDR’s secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau, confessed to the House Ways and Means Committee on May 9, 1939;
“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before AND IT DOES NOT WORK … We have never made good on our promises … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. …. And an enormous debt to boot!”
Where the New Deal succeeded beyond FDR’s wildest imagination was in changing the country’s dominant ideology. Just look at the 47 new acts and agencies. Each interferes with the effective operation of the free market. Each renders the economy less productive with its subsidizing, financing, insuring, regulating, fines and punishments. The New Deal set a precedent that virtually any government program could gain sufficient political support in Congress. Limited constitutional government no longer applied …. especially after the Supreme Court revolution that began in 1937. After the New Deal virtually everyone would look to the federal government for solutions to problems great and small, real and imagined, even personal as well as social. After the New Deal any new proposed federal program might be opposed because of its structure, personnel, or cost … but virtually no one objected on principle, that this new program by its very nature was inappropriate to the role of government. Government now is The-Solution-To-Everything. FDR’s lasting legacy is a bloated, very stupid, extremely intrusive government trampling on citizens liberty. But, even so, it almost died on the vine.
Prior to entering the Good War, FDR’s economic war plans to remake America into a socialist utopia was failing miserably, as shown above. What he needed was a real damn war. Not to save Europe or help America! But to preserve his new found powers and to keep the Federal Bloated Pig fed into perpetuity.
WINNING THE GOOD WAR AND ENJOYING ITS RESULTS
EUROPE
Let’s start with Poland. Why? Because Britain and France declared war against Germany when German military forces attacked Poland …. and Britain and France would liberate Poland, they said. How sincere was that pledge? Not, very. Soviet forces attacked Poland from the East two weeks later, ultimately taking even more Polish territory than did Germany, and the leaders of Britain and France kept silent. Was Poland free after WWII ended? Of course, not. They had to endure decades of brutal (at times) Soviet domination. So, the Good War wasn’t so good for Poland.
What about all of Eastern Europe? Also dominated and ruled by the Soviets. No freedom for them as a result of the Good War.
What about England? They won!! Churchill, in his ‘Finest Hour’ address, said: —— “Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire.” A few weeks earlier in his ‘Blood, Sweat and Tears’ speech, he said that unless Germany was defeated, there would be; ——– “no survival for the British empire, no survival for all that the British empire has stood for…”. How did wining the Good War turn out for the Brits? Even Churchill lamented the war’s outcome three years after the end of fighting; —— “The human tragedy of the war reaches its climax in the fact that after all the exertions and sacrifices of hundreds of millions of people and of the victories of the Righteous Cause, we have still not found Peace or Security, and that we lie in the grip of even worse perils than those we have surmounted.” The once mighty British empire … the one in which the sun never set … that empire has vanished into history. The Brits can now watch the sun set on their empire every day, and they don’t even need to leave their island.
British historian Basil Liddell Hart wrote: ———- “All the effort that was put into the destruction of Hitlerite Germany resulted in a Europe so devastated and weakened in the process that its power of resistance was much reduced in the face of a fresh and greater menace – and Britain, in common with her European neighbours, had become a poor dependent of the United States. These are the hard facts underlying the victory that was so hopefully pursued and so painfully achieved ….. It confirmed the warning of past experience that this victory is a ‘mirage in the desert’ – the desert that a long war creates, when waged with modern weapons and unlimited methods.”
What about the rest of Western Europe? Well, several of them are saddled with a permanent Occupying Force — at least that’s what it’s called when Russia did likewise. None of them can adequately protect themselves. All of them are sock-puppets to Uncle Schmuel. This is not freedom. Europe for the first time in its history was no longer master of its own destiny. In 1941 FDR and Churchill issued the “Atlantic Charter”, a formal declaration of Allied war aims, that the USA and Britain would seek; —- “no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned”. They lied! They re-drew so many borders with impunity dividing up countries like an Etch-A-Sketch Gone Wild. Their horrible decisions took decades to come to its bloodletting fruition, such as in Yugoslavia in the early 1990s and still in the Middle East to this day. Wow, that’s some kind of ‘victory’.
But, the USA (the government) and Soviet Russia came out smelling like a rose. FDR, Stalin, and Churchill met in Yalta and accomplished EXACTLY what they accused the Krauts, Nips, and Dagos of conspiring to achieve ……. world domination. One must be willfully blind to not see the hypocrisy. WWII was not a war for freedom. Rather, it was a war for who would become the winner of the global game of Risk, and the players at Yalta, each in his own duplicitous way, tried to assure that only one power would be left standing.
Russia did exceptionally well, although it took seven decades to realize the full potential. Russia today has virtually no debt, and with their thousands of nukes is the only nation in the world that can legitimately stand up to American military might, and has enormous natural resource wealth with oil, minerals, and arable land, and along with China and other nations is working hard to put an end to the petro-dollar …. which would certainly put the final nail in the coffin of the American Empire. I wonder how the Village Idiot will enjoy those results.
AMERICA
There is no doubt that the end of WWII launched an era of astounding prosperity. Perhaps that’s what out Village Idiot means by me enjoying “the results of men dying”. But, that would be quite a statement coming from the Village Idiot, who is also an unabashed Fundy Bible Thumper. It’s almost as if he never read the warnings from Scripture against loving things, acquiring unnecessary wealth, and the evils of loving money. The only question that matters is whether or not obtaining this prosperity was worth the cost. I don’t think it was. Decide for yourself.
ISOLATIONISM DIES ……… GIVING BIRTH TO GLOBALISM
Yes, there are exceptions (taking the land from Native Americans, taking/buying lands from the French, taking/fighting the Mexicans for huge portions of land), but for the most part, American history is one whereby its citizens and politicians preferred isolationism. For a hundred years after George Washington’s farewell address warning against “foreign entanglements”, America basically minded its own damn business. Then along came that rat-bastard, Woody Wilson (may he rot in hell), who was elected largely on his promise to keep America out of the European War. But about a month after his inauguration this war-mongering Ivy League elitist gives his “War message to Congress”, not because our security is at stake, but because America suddenly acquired this duty to spread liberty across the world; —– “The world must be made safe for democracy. Its peace must be planted upon the tested foundations of political liberty.”
Anyway, war was declared, the people went along with the charade, millions died, and ………… peace in Europe was never achieved. As a result, by the 1930’s, disillusioned Americans became more convinced than ever that foreign adventure was a disastrous policy. American isolationism was renewed with a vengeance. The majority of Americans were very firmly opposed to entering WWII. Most people know that FDR’s goading Japan to attack Pearl Harbor changed all that. But there was another guy who helped kill isolationism, Henry Luce.
Luce was the founder and editor of the Time and Life empire. Those two magazine were THE source of news for Americans. Luce penned an editorial in 1941, “The American Century.”. Luce should be the patron saint of Fox news and neocon warmongers. Luce said the US was already the strongest nation in the world for several decades, and that NOW was the time to accept the responsibilities of that power, writing that the US should “exert upon the world the full impact of our influence, for such purposes as we see fit and by such means as we see fit.”. He said the US must be a force for good. How? By spreading our culture, feeding and clothing the world, and spreading the ideals of democracy, freedom, and justice around the globe. His editorial was received with great enthusiasm. It effectively marked the death of American isolationism.
A FANATICAL REVIVAL OF AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM
America was birthed with a belief in its exceptionalism going as far back as the 1600’s whereby the Puritans believed themselves to be on a “special mission from God”. The end of WWII fueled our exceptionalistic beliefs, like throwing gasoline on a fire. Ours was the only significant economy left standing, and one without global competition. Our military was invincible. Always a religious people, it seemed even atheists acknowledged that America was specially blessed by God. We could do whatever we wanted, when we wanted, for as long as we wanted, and cost was never an issue. We believed one of the craziest notions of all time ….. that each successive generation would surpass the affluence of the one before.
The process of breaking these illusions and returning to reality STLL HAS NOT TAKEN PLACE!! To listen to Obama’s West Point speech a couple weeks ago was like taking a Time Capsule trip back to May 8th, 1945. Obama actually believes in his heart we are still an exceptional nation, who can do what it wants, when it wants, including bombing other nations unilaterally as we see fit, and cost is never an issue.
Historian Murray Rothbard summed it up most succinctly when he wrote: —– “World War II is the last war myth left, the myth that the Old Left clings to in pure desperation: the myth that here, at least, was a good war, here was a war in which America was in the right. World War II is the war thrown into our faces by the war-making establishment, as it tries, in each war that we face, to wrap itself in the mantle of good and righteous World War II.”
It is our belief in an exceptional military that is so dangerous … to us and the rest of the world … for exceptionalism inevitably leads to over-confidence. Since 1945, American presidents have repeatedly sought to justify US military actions in foreign countries Exceptionalism/over-confidence led that that jackass Lydon Johnson to believe the Vietnam war would be over in a few weeks. It led Bush to compare fighting Iraq – another “good war” — with our mission against Hitler, and his moronic son to prematurely ejaculate “mission accomplished”. Fast forward to the current Moron-In-Chief and you get a numbskull who calls Afghanistan a “necessary war”, and who is desperately seeking to re-ignite a Cold War with Russia — because we are exceptional, and they are not — or, possibly even WWIII, the next Good War that will certainly this time be the war to end all wars.
THE CURSE OF AFFLUENCE
Hey, I watch the Honeymooners. In one episode Alice complains to Ralph about their lack of modern conveniences saying that their last month’s electric bill was eighty-nine cents!! Ha! I don’t want to live like that! I’m delighted I have a fridge, a gas oven, a vacuum cleaner, and other niceties of life. But, as stated earlier, what was the real cost in completely transforming society?
The most obvious is that everything became larger; media, education, entertainment, corporations, you name it but, especially government. Individual craftsmanship gave way to mass production. Mom and pop gave way to franchises. Quaint towns and villages each unique to its geographical location gave way to suburbia … a mind numbing sameness that is only marginally better than those old Soviet-era grey concrete apartments.
The growth of suburbia created a “consumption multiplier”; more homes meant more appliances had to be produced, and furniture to furnish them, and malls to supply the homeowner with all their needs, more roads needed to be built, and more automobiles to transport the consuming masses, and children largely abandoned by their parents needed more toys, phones, computers, and gadgets to keep them occupied.
A mass-produced society really doesn’t need a lot of people who work for themselves. So, now, instead of people like our own Hardscrabble Farmer, we have hordes of worker drones working for someone else in corporations, government offices, and universities; mostly white collar workers in their cubicle fiefdoms, and millions upon millions in the soul-destroying “service industry”. Schools are incapable of coming to the rescue as their only interest is producing little robots that conform to the status quo, individualism be damned.
Even the Most Holy of Holies has been replaced by The Holy God Of Stuff. Go to any Christian bookstore and you’ll find row after row of books on how to ‘name it and claim it’… in the name of Jesus, of course. The theology section might consist of two rows of shelves. From Joel Olsteen (the psychologist to neurotic Christians) to Trinity Broadcasting Network (for Christians so materialistic it makes the Devil blush) the case can be made that Friedrich Nietzsche was correct; “God IS dead”, at least in most American churches.
So, tell me, how wonderful has all this material abundance really been? Not that it really matters … because the Age of Abundance will soon pass. This generation is already worse off than mine was, and the next one will be still even worse. The Honeymooners kitchen in the not too distant future will look like the lap of luxury.
AN OUT OF CONTROL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and PRESIDENCY
The math is simple. During the war years, federal civilian employees increased from one million to nearly four million. Washington’s spending grew from $9 billion to $99 billion dollars. And like a cancer, neither has stopped growing since. Time after time FDR assumed more and more authority, almost acting like a King. Important decisions concerning both domestic and foreign policy were not made by Congress, but by the President and his advisers. Not every president after FDR was as bad. But, no one complained, no one was outraged, no one questioned FDR’s abuse of the Constitution, and so, the precedent was once again established (after a hiatus from the Lincoln years). Obama has read FDR’s playbook, and perfected it.
THE BIRTH OF THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
The partnership of Big Science, Big Government, and Big Business established in1940 had created a firm foundation for future projects. Scientists were commissioned to perfect new weapons like the atom bomb, better radar, jet engines, penicillin, etc. Prostitution increased dramatically as FDR offered big business executives key positions. Corporate profits doubled. There was a demand in markets that previously did not exist. It was the beginning of the end of the family farm as larger commercial farms absorbed them. This was all pretty nifty at the time as it helped win the war. BUT, the beast didn’t stop growing after the war, it just grew and grew and grew … a cancerous blob of protoplasmic slop that will, in time, consume itself.
Eisenhower talked about the dangers of the MIC in his farewell speech. During the war an organized relationship arose between big business and the military’s spending on defense as hundreds of millions of dollars were spent which, in turn, inflated American industrial capacity. Small companies disappeared as two-thirds of government contracts went to the 100 largest corporations. Today the MIC spends more on American defense than the next 9 largest spenders combined … and that includes Russia and China …not to mention we are the world’s number one arms exporter by a huge margin.
Military spending is less effective at creating jobs than virtually any other form of government activity. In fact, it might not actually “create” any jobs at all. Military spending doesn’t make our country richer, otherwise, why wouldn’t we just build 10 millions tanks so we could all become millionaires? If you like Paul Krugman and his Weaponized Keynesianism band, you won’t believe this, but every dollar spent on military spending is a dollar not spent making something that will help all Americans economically. It’s pissing money down the toilet.
THE CURSE OF ADVERTISING AND CREDIT
I loathe advertising at about the same level I do bankers and politicians. How can I respect an industry whereby every product output is basically a lie (of either omission or commission), a half-truth, or an exaggeration, and whose goal is always for their clients (us) to commit one of the 7 Deadly Sins, that of Greed? The post-war explosion in the production of consumer goods created an explosion in the advertising industry …. because people just don’t buy all that crap on their own, they need to be suckered into it. But, even with mom now in the workforce, there often wasn’t enough money to buy stuff, as there was so much of it. This new materialism led to the creation of an economy run on credit …. a concept basically unknown before the war, when most families borrowed money only to buy a house, or perhaps a car. The credit card changed America, and not in a good way for its many debt slaves.
BLACKS (or African-Americans, Neegrows, colored folk, …. or whatever)
In 1941, 10 of 13 million Blacks still lived in the rural South. One million blacks migrated to the North during the war. Two million were employed in the defense industry. As early as 1943 a riot broke out in a federally-sponsored housing project in Detroit, leaving 35 blacks and 9 whites dead. A little over two decades later Newark, Watts, and other areas were left burning. Civil disobedience – “sit-ins” first, violence later – occurred almost immediately after the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) was founded in 1942.
MEXICANS
The need for farm workers rose dramatically after Pearl Harbor. To meet the demand, the United States established the Bracero (work hands) Program in 1942, and by 1945, several hundred thousand Mexican workers had immigrated to the Southwest. Commercial farmers welcomed them; labor unions, however, resented the competition, leading to animosity and discrimination against Mexicans. The war opened the immigration floodgates, both legal and illegal.
WOMEN
The war had a dramatic impact on women. The most visible change was the sudden appearance of large numbers of women in uniform, such as 250,000 women joining the Women’s Army Corps (WAC), as well as the other service branches. And over 6 million women entered the work force, and for the first time in history, married working women outnumbered single working women. “Rosie the Riveter” became the popular symbol of women who abandoned traditional female occupations.
I’m not a misogynist. I have no qualms with women having the same opportunities as men. But this ‘social engineering’ came at a cost to family life and therefore to society, and to deny it is foolishness. Moms either stayed on the job, or went to work outside of the home in large numbers, not because they needed to, but because they could. There became suddenly so many things to buy! Consumerism may not have been born during the immediate post-war era, but it was surely Super-Sized. And one of the reasons Boomers became the most fucked up generation ever (according to many here on TBP) may have been because we were raised by others not called mom-and-dad. We did enjoy them buying us stuff to assuage their guilt. We watched. We took notes. And, when we grew up, many of us bought BMWs and McMansions.
ENEMY ALIENS IN OUR MIDST!!!
At first, Japanese-American-owned banks and businesses were closed, as well as Japanese language schools. FDR ordered members of suspected “enemy alien” groups to turn in their cameras, radios, and weapons. The U.S. Attorney General established curfews in military zones and forbade “enemy aliens” to travel outside of a five mile radius from their homes. Then, eventually, 112,000 of America’s 127,000 Japanese living on the mainland were sent to Internment Camps (lesser known is that about 15,000 people of German and Italian ancestry were also subject to Amerika’s wartime confinement program.)
The above events are rarely discussed and easily dismissed as a necessary act during a time of war. In other words, no big deal, move along. However, it is one of Amerika’s darkest moments. I will keep my argument simple; —- THEY WERE AMERICANS!!! Many were born HERE, some families going generations deep. Even those not born here, they immigrated here because they wanted to be Americans, and they were loyal to this country. I was born in Austria, but after living here 55 of my 60 years, if you try to tell me I’m not an American, trust me, I’m likely to punch you in the brain.
Once again, this heinous act set (or, re-established) a precedent … that it’s perfectly OK to send AMERICANS to prison —err, interment — camps for some stupid trumped-up fear-mongering reason. And if you disagree with that, my friend, you will really enjoy the FEMA Camps, coming to a theater near you, soon. How will you feel when they come for YOU, because you own a gun, or belong to the Tea Party, or because you are a wacko ‘Constitutionalist”, or belong to the 99 other groups this Federal Government is so afraid of that there’s an FBI Watch List monitoring them all? Will you still say, “It’s no big deal?”
HOW “GOOD” WAS THE GOOD WAR REALLY?
“What kind of war do civilians suppose we fought, anyway? We shot prisoners in cold blood, wiped out hospitals, strafed lifeboats, killed or mistreated enemy civilians, finished off the enemy wounded, tossed the dying into a hole with the dead, and in the Pacific boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved their bones into letter-openers.” That quote comes from a 1946 Atlantic Monthly article by Edgar L. Jones titled ‘One War Is Enough’. The article is here, and well worth the read (if you can handle the truth); —- http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/battle/jones.htm
BACK TO THE VILLAGE IDIOT
The Village Idiot (bb) eventually did answer my question regarding WHICH results I’ve “enjoyed” as a result of “all those men dying”. This is all he could come up with;
“Think about it, if we had lost the war America as we knew it would not have been.”
To which I say, “If only that were true. If only ….”. There are a great many people who understand that our WWII victory was a Pyrrhic one. The Village Idiot will not believe me. He’ll probably even call me bad names. So, I close with a quote from Charles A. Lindbergh, 25 years after the war ended he wrote;
“We won the war in a military sense; but in a broader sense it seems to me we lost it, for our Western civilization is less respected and secure than it was before. In order to defeat Germany and Japan we supported the still greater menaces of Russia and China – which now confront us in a nuclear-weapon era. Much of our Western culture was destroyed. We lost the genetic heredity formed through eons in many million lives. It is alarmingly possible that World War II marks the beginning of our Western civilization’s breakdown, as it already marks the breakdown of the greatest empire ever built by man.”
Wow. The lead article!! I’m feeling goooood!! Maybe it’ll get more than 10 comments. LOL
Hey, Admin. Thank you!
Wow Stucky that’s a lot work and a nice piece. I will reread it later on today. Thanks
bb
I express my SINCERE gratitude to you for what you said. You certainly get my juices flowing. You inspired me to write this piece. I learned a few things in doing the research, which I greatly enjoyed. So, thanks.
Don’t be fooled. You still piss me off. So, go ahead and say mean things to me. Tell me I’m going to hell. I love those stories. I can take it. Bring it on!!
Damn, Stucky, that was a good, no a great read. Makes me wonder how we’ve made it this far, and how much farther can we push it?
The last quote says it all. If we are children of God or some alien experiment, we must be a grand disappointment.
Absolutely the finest writing ever to appear on this site, Stucky, and one of the few articles that I agree with 100%.
I will say more later because time is short right now- have to get to work.
I can’t remember when I started rooting for the Japs, Germans, Confederates, or whomever (except the British) when watching a good war flick and featured ‘merica, but it was a long time ago.
Wow Stucky,
Great article. Great writing. The only thing I might add is our empire building beyond mainland USA really began with Teddy Roosevelt, ” Remember the Maine” along with the help of Randolf Hearst’s encouragement getting into the take over of Spain’s failing empire. That began the run up the progressive presidency of Woody Wilson.
Bob.
A lot of good stuff in this article, but I think you need to go deeper…
Some thoughts;
Regarding this; “Yes, there are exceptions (taking the land from Native Americans, taking/buying lands from the French, taking/fighting the Mexicans for huge portions of land), but for the most part, American history is one whereby its citizens and politicians preferred isolationism. For a hundred years after George Washington’s farewell address warning against “foreign entanglements”, America basically minded its own damn business.”
You skip, dance, and gloss over the foundational immorality that this country is built on. Scamerica did not mind its own business, in all that time it increased and solidified its gains and imposed greater and stronger controls, all with a wandering eye to further expansion.
Historically this foundational immorality can be found in the ever changing dynamic of ‘god’, ‘us’ and ‘them’, which are all constructs of early humans in earlier evolution created to explain and justify the nature of the diabolical existence we are all thrust into at birth. Its a dog eat dog world. Those that invented the ‘god’ portion of the structure, controlled the ‘us’ and ‘them’ and used them to feather their own nests. Rinse and repeat and fast forward too today.
That basic triad structure of ‘god’, ‘us’ and ‘them’ is still with us today, but now ‘god’ has morphed into; ‘nation states’, ‘corporate entities’, ‘etc.’. and the ‘us’ and ‘them’ are the same old used exploitable masses. Forget nation states, they are constructs created, owned, and controlled, by those elite who pose as the ‘god’ leg in the ever repeating triad. Focus on the elite themselves and their viewpoints and behaviors.
This is a moral struggle that requires new thinking. Humanity has evolved to a point where the dog eat dog component of our diabolical existence can be moderated and mitigated with a combined effort of ALL of humanity.
http://www.boxthefox.com/deceptionology.html
And the Lindbergh quote, with its elitist, loss of “genetic heredity” quote, only served to crapify the good points you made.
Deception is the strongest political force on the planet.
Bostonbob, I consider the American Empire to have begun with the Louisiana Purchase.
“Absolutely the finest writing ever to appear on this site” ———— Chicago999444
I am swooning. Hey, let’s get married!!
However, and I am 100% sincere, I disagree. Admin’s writings, especially his VERY detailed exposing of this putrid government, far exceed anything I can even hope to aspire to. Hardscrabble Farmer’s absolutely BEAUTIFUL prose is also beyond my grasp. Billy’s rants …. I just can’t compete. Llpoh’s stories and experiences are a sight to behold. AWD’s ripping apart Obongo, no one can surpass that. TE (formerly, TeresaE) is a fountain of knowledge regarding foods and natural cures … several which I’ve implemented, much to my benefit. But, I am a much much better writer than SSS, for sure.
I’m sorry that I left out so many of my friends. I only want to be brief.
The reason I came here, but more importantly, the reason I stayed, is because the QUALITY of writing here … from Admin, yourself, and virtually all the regulars … is truly, the very very best on the internet … and I’ve been to many internet sites.
@Stucky – Truly a wonderful piece, it ties together nicely a lot of common commentary here on TBP, and is a good primer for new members.
Required reading!
Z,
You are probably right, but if you take the whole “Manifest Destiny” thing at face value then it was going to happen one way or the other. Technically it was a purchase, but I am sure the Indians would have thought otherwise. I was more on the line of thinking outside the continental USA, beyond what is perceived to be our natural borders.
Bob.
Bostonbob, Aside from the LP, the war with Mexico was clearly an imperial war. On the other hand, the peopling of the Oregon Territory with the pioneers (some of which are ancestors of mine) and the California Gold Rush were largely independent of imperial hubris. I suppose the same thing can be said for the land-thieves known as Sooners, may they all rot in hell (especially the Stoops brothers).
Stuckmaster,
Good work, and I think you covered the WWII era quite well. I enjoyed it and will re-read it again, as the downsides of winning a war are huge. Thank you for your hard work.
“A lot of good stuff in this article, but I think you need to go deeper…” ———- Warren Celli
You are correct. There is quite a bit more that could have been included. However, printed out, the article is already 12 pages long. I decided to focus only on those things I felt were THE most important, in terms of that war affecting our lives today.
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“You skip, dance, and gloss over the foundational immorality that this country is built on.”
I no longer skip and dance because my moobs get in the way. I can still gloss with the best of them. I did not want to get to “preachy” …. and that’s exactly what happens when “immorality” is brought into the discussion. (You can expect comments from bb and Nonanonymous shortly.)
But, I’ll play, briefly. I can agree that this country was built on a “foundational immorality” ….. but, only in this sense; ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE EVIL by their very nature. All governments derive their powers from the threat of force and punishments, especially fines and prison. That is their nature. Name me one country NOT built on foundational immorality. I don’t think you can.
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“And the Lindbergh quote, with its elitist, loss of “genetic heredity” quote, only served to crapify the good points you made.”
I’m not sure what Lindbergh meant by the loss of “genetic heredity”. I doubt he’s talking about some American genetic quality since he mentions “through eons”, and ‘eons’ usually means a very long period of time. Nevertheless, that one phrase does not abrogate his other excellent observations.
Thanks, Stucky for all the hours you must have spent researching and composing this piece. It’s a great little summary of long years of history of righteous war-mongering and constitution-twisting. We have come to a sad place in our history, when Justice is beginning to extract her due from an arrogant, self-righteous land.
It got me to thinking about the Voices that shout to the members of any group, the Voices that inform values and decisions. I have been a victim of those voices in many realms of life. How does the individual effectively filter the messages for nonsense? We can try to train our children to be true to their own filters, to stand for what they know is true, but it seems this ability is really acquired after only many years of life experience. What is “true” surely gets edited numerous times between twenty and eighty. Meanwhile we live in the prime of our lives when we have the responsibility to form an existence with profound effects on the well-being of ourselves, our families, our communities, and our nation.
We are taught to respect all those in authority over us. This is perhaps the most dangerous message of all. We are taught to fawn over those entertain us, no matter what values they promote or live out themselves. The business Voice proclaims that we deserve all the material goods we crave, never mind how to pay for them. The attractiveness Voice assures me I am of more value if I falsely color away the grey in my hair.
So it’s no wonder the war Voice is so seductive. It enlarges itself by appealing to other strong Voices: patriotism, glory, defense, faith. That’s a pretty potent collection of cultural artifacts. The fact that the average soul denies the Voice of history is testament to what we’re up against.
When even would-be agnostics cannot see through the fog of their belief in the fundamental divinity of God’s Country, there is little hope for reasoned discussion. Your belief in “America” as anything more than the local cartel betrays your myopic idealism.
WW2 was about gangsters, just like WW3 will be. The benefit of “patriotism” is it allows you to feel righteous as you choose your local protection racket over the foreign one; it doesn’t erase the fact that criminals are running your lives and killing in your name.
And while it is true that a good deal of “Americans” have been of the isolationist bent in principle, all one has to do is to look at the POLICIES of their governments to see that for the comforting, if ill-conceived lie that it is. Think: Monroe Doctrine, and move forward through time. Principle finishes a distant second to cheap tube socks….
Finally, “Western civilization” is a farce; it’s nothing more than successful gangsters patting themselves on the back as they wash the blood from their clothes with champagne. An honest accounting–one which carefully details just how HATED European invaders were, wherever they went (PARTICULARLY the Brits), and the cruel methods they used to keep the unbelievers in line (opium, small pox, simple murder)–strips that tired canard down to its bones, and exposes the
predator for what he truly is: a fortunate coward who used force at any moment to impart his “civilization” on those “weaker” than him. THAT picture isn’t in the history books because its too craven even for the empty-headed mouth-breather spawn that wallow in student loan debt today. No, much better to point to the artists and musicians that are the ONLY saving grace of “western civilization” (all of whom, of course, directly benefited from the carnage, and only rarely raised a finger in protest.)
I think you’re on the right track, but you’re still deep in the Cave.
Great article Stuck. Pretty amazing depth and analysis.
FDR almost destroyed this country, as Obama has. The Federal reserve and taxes have spelled the end of this country. At least FDR made most people work for a living, engendering much less socio-pathology. Obama pays people to sit on their ass, become obese and destroy their health, smoke, take drugs, sell their pills, diapers and SNAP cards for cash, commit fraud, multiply exponentially out of wedlock, and destroy the very nature of this country. All they have to do is vote democrat for a living. FDR was a closet socialist, but Obama is a radical socialist.
Big government didn’t end the depression, it made it worse. Big government is killing us now, and will murder us before long. Obama’s fascist police and surveillance state is much worse than anything FDR, the Nazis or Stalin could have thought up. Obama takes evil to a whole new level. We’re not done being destroyed yet, Obama’s busting his ass to get us into a world war, and he’ll succeed. He’s gotta go. Anyway, great article, very thought provoking.
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Z,
I cannot argue with any of your facts. There was much hue and cry from certain corners about Manifest Destiny from the likes of people such as Lloph’s favorite Andrew Jackson. Clearly the US would use propaganda such as this to justify its imperial ambitions in the continent. Again, I was thinking more in the lines of post continentalism expansion, but you are correct, the United States has long had a history and hunger for expansion under any name.
Bob.
Gayle
“The Voices” ………. wow, that’s a terrific post.
“How does the individual effectively filter the messages for nonsense?”
Tough question. I suppose that’s up to each individual to determine. Let me tell you how I did it by how I raised my kids.
One of the Big Main reasons I divorced my ex is because we disagreed strongly and often on educating the children, especially religious education. Keep in mind I was not back then the agnostic I am now. I was just like bb and Nonanonymous.
She preferred INDOCTRINATION; 1) home-schooling, 2) Christian Schools, 3) church twice on Sundays, Wednesday prayer meetings, and Friday Bible Studies.
My “rules” were quite simple;
1) —– don’t believe me or mom ………. question EVERYTHING
2) —– read, read, read, study, ………. then read some more
2A) — it is KEY to read and study … opposing viewpoints
3) —– then decide for yourself what you want to believe
I too, as we all, have to deal with The Voices. I fight them with my 3-step program.
stucky,
Outstanding job, in my years on TBP, that is the finest article/post I have read that wasn’t done by Admin himself.
trolls like our village idiot are occasionally good for something, they spout shit but shit often makes the best fertilizer and from his verbal diahrrea came this piece.
when i get a chance at lunch i will re-post it on my 2-bit site so 3-4 more people will read it.
outstanding job, this should be required reading for all the new dogs that come to prowl on TBP.
“When even would-be agnostics …” —– MarsPleaseAttack
ummmmm …. I’m the real deal, trust me.
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“Your belief in “America” as anything more than the local cartel betrays your myopic idealism.”
——– MarsPleaseAttack
Why is America in quotes? And, “myopic idealism” ….. that’s funny shit right there, even from my Cave.
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“Finally, “Western civilization” is a farce;” ——– MarsPleaseAttack
WOW! That’s really over the top. ALL of Western Civilization for ALL time?? Even the folks who gave us this?
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I’m going to assume that, by default, you’re a big fan of “Eastern Civilization”, and that they have not committed the sins of the West. Please do tell us about that.
Stucky says:
I’m going to assume that, by default, you’re a big fan of “Eastern Civilization”, and that they have not committed the sins of the West. Please do tell us about that.
_______________________________________
Let’s compare:
Greece: City States with slave economies. Persian Empire: Slavery is illegal
Greece: Dozens of absurd, jealous gods Persian Empire: Ahura Mazda, love and free choice
Greece: Men wore sheets Persian Empire: Men wore pants
Greece: The acropolis built with pilfered funds. Persian Empire: Persepolis built with tax money
Greece: Succumbed to the Romans Persian Empire: Kicked the Roman’s asses
Excellent article. However, I believe one could spend a lifetime researching WWII and still not quite nail everything that when down. It’s that immense. I was also going to point out that America’s imperial desires even pre-date the official founding of the nation, but others were keen to that observation as well. This is not a critique of the article, but rather, a testament to just how deep the rabbit hole goes once you start digging. You can start at WWII, work your way all the way back through the previous century, only to find you need to go even further back in time.
Americans’ public school education conveniently leaves out most of the failures, blunders, injustices, and downright criminal acts from the curriculum. The exceptions seem to be when a special interest group is in a position to cash in on said past injustice. As a result, what Americans don’t know about their past could fill a warehouse. For instance, America has two failed invasions of Canada under its belt, the first being in 1775. Apparently, immediately after the siege of Boston, an invasion of Canada in Winter was the top priority. As late as the 1930s, America was gearing up to invade Canada under War Plan Red, a super secret initiative to build airfields and launching posts for several thrusts into our “friendly neighbor to the North.” In a stunning example of government incompetence, portions of the plan were accidentally published on the front page of the New York Times in 1935, thus ending America’s Northern imperial ambitions… for now.
Most American know nothing about the Spanish-American War; I assume some might even believe Spain and America teamed up to fight someone else. A few may know the Rough Riders did something on a hill somewhere. The imperial aspirations certainly flared in the 1890s, but then you come across a creepy quote from 1823 like this one:
“If an apple, severed by the tempest from its native tree, cannot choose but fall to the ground, Cuba, forcibly disjoined from its unnatural connexion with Spain, and incapable of self-support, can only gravitate towards the North American Union. ” – John Quincy Adams
It seems America’s elite long had their eyes on that particular prize.
The glorification of World War II really ramped up, as usual, when the veterans started dying off. The bevvy of war films in the late 90’s and early 00’s along with Tom Brokaw’s “greatest generation” schtick helped to seal the deal. Monuments and the D-Day museum were hurriedly constructed so that there would still be veteran’s alive for their ribbon cutting ceremonies. As a result, to criticize America’s involvement in WWII has become akin to kicking a puppy for the hell of it. American atrocities and blunders were just as prevalent in that war, including the firebombing of Dresden, medical testing on troops, internment, willful killing of American POWs on Japanese hell ships, the atomic bombings, Project Paper Clip, etc. As noted, an entire lifetime could be devoted to all that went on in those years.
Perhaps, as you noted, the most devastating effect of WWII that has given credence to the success of Keynesianism as well as warfare as a economic generator. Most today believe that FDR’s big spending policies eased the great depression, and WWII ended it. The truth, however, seems to be that America simply nuked, firebombed, and bankrupted its competition. For the next 30 years they were the only manufacturing game in town. We all no what happened next – greed took over, combined with planned obsolescence and general laziness to result in competitors suddenly overtaking the manufacturing base. Then, instead of accepting a decreased standard of living, or ramping up to compete again, America mortgaged itself to the hilt, playing every extend and pretend game in the book, and writing new volumes on the subject when the book ran out. That is where we are today. The people do not accept this, because our society demands a simple narrative, one that can fit conveniently between two consecutive commercial breaks. So we are left with American exceptionalism, all the way to the poor house.
Zara
HA!! I’m telling you — I SWEAR — that as I typed that very sentence I thought to myself — “Zara is going to post something about the Persians!” ……and, sho ’nuff, like clockwork ….
I love Persians. Scholars believe that few peoples exceeded the Persians when it came to torture. This may come in handy in terms of ideas to use on pols, bankers, and other evilfuks …. as hanging is too benign, imho.
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“An ancient Persian method of execution designed to inflict torturous death. The naked person would be firmly fastened within a back-to-back pair of narrow rowboats, the head, hands, and feet protruding from this improvised container. The condemned was forced to ingest milk and honey to the point of developing severe diarrhea, and more honey would be rubbed on his body so as to attract insects to the exposed appendages. They would then be left to float on a stagnant pond. Death, when it eventually occurred, was probably due to a combination of dehydration, starvation and septic shock. Insanity would typically set in after a few days.
In other recorded versions, the insects did not eat the person; biting and stinging insects such as wasps, which were attracted by honey on the body, acted as the torture. Death by scaphism is painful, humiliating, and protracted. Plutarch writes in Artaxerxes that Mithridates, sentenced to die in this manner for killing Cyrus the Younger, and survived 17 days before dying. “
“Dick Cheney was ordered to be executed in a notoriously torturous way known as scaphism, His punishment was recounted as follows:
[The king] decreed that Dick Cheney should be put to death in boats; which execution is after the following manner: Taking two boats framed exactly to fit and answer each other, they lay down in one of them the malefactor that suffers, upon his back; then, covering it with the other, and so setting them together that the head, hands, and feet of him are left outside, and the rest of his body lies shut up within, they offer him food, and if he refuse to eat it, they force him to do it by pricking his eyes; then, after he has eaten, they drench him with a mixture of milk and honey, pouring it not only into his mouth, but all over his face. They then keep his face continually turned towards the sun; and it becomes completely covered up and hidden by the multitude of flies that settle on it. And as within the boats he does what those that eat and drink must needs do, creeping things and vermin spring out of the corruption and rottenness of the excrement, and these entering into the bowels of him, his body is consumed. When the man is manifestly dead, the uppermost boat being taken off, they find his flesh devoured, and swarms of such noisome creatures preying upon and, as it were, growing to his inwards. In this way Cheney, after suffering for seventeen days, at last expired.
—Plutarch II, Life of Dick Cheney [1]
@Stucky,
“I’m going to assume that, by default, you’re a big fan of “Eastern Civilization”, and that they have not committed the sins of the West. Please do tell us about that.”
This is an example of where your logic fails you. You break down into binary, a false choice between East and West, when ALL civilization is a poor arrangement. Remember, my shtick is ANTI-civilization, regardless of its origin. Our species evolutionary mistake was going beyond the tribe; read Zerzan for a view of civilization that rings true to me.
Even so, you’re either being disingenuous or misinformed (both?) to include the Greeks in “western” civilization. They certainly didn’t see themselves as such; it was the culturally parasitic Romans who made their path “western” a good deal of time after they had gone. Also, since most people in the west today have little to no knowledge of the Greeks (particularly the Stoics), it seems the runaway train you’re defending by pointing to things over 2000 years old and all but forgotten doesn’t hold much weight in your defense.
“America” is in quotes because it is a shared hallucination, a collaborative fiction “we the people” accept as our owners plunder the world, and soon (ok, already) us. Look at the electoral college, and tell me that the “founding fathers” were NOT cynical, conniving power-mongers. Hell, read the Federalist papers–it’s pretty explicit about who the “new” government was REALLY for. There were some wild cards (like Franklin and Paine), but in the whole it was the same ole same ole from the very beginning. What we (I presume you were spoon-fed the same crap I was as a child) believe to be was just a manifestation of what always was: “The Empire never ended.” America is a marketing term, and always has been. What made the Great Communicator such a beloved president was he BELIEVED that crap to his core, and therefore could sell it to the suckers who didn’t know (or want to know) that peak civilization was 30 years down the road. Well, here we are, with the “republic” a wistful memory, but the underlying structure that has ALWAYS been here, still stands. You even have the Kagans out in force proudly proclaiming that THIS is how it should be.
My criticism of your piece can be simplified down to this: is doesn’t go far enough. People down vote me here because I believe racism is stupid, that human beings universally suck, or I’m a “liberal” or a “nihilist”. They can’t understand how silly they look in my eyes because I see them, at their base, as self-deluded fools who aren’t honest about our species and our place in the world. The same applies to your piece: it’s obviously well-intentioned, it’s more accurate than most of the pablum seen around the intertubes, but it falls short in the honest realization area. It presupposes virtue where none EVER existed.
Great job on a great story, Stuck. It’ll be interesting to see how many comments you get. What’s the record, around 300?
I am in a hurry right now so I’m going to reread you post tonight but so far i agree with most of your post .You and the others are proving my point better then I can.My grandfather told me we won the war but lost the country because the government had grown so large.
You ,me and the others have benefited greatly because so many were willing to fight ,die and keepthe war overseas. America quickly became the greatest industrial machine the world has ever known .Everything you have material or other wise goes right back to those men dying on battlefields across the world and this includes the Russian WW2 veterans.
You have known peace , prosperity and overall well being better then any group of people in history.I see most of you as ungrateful, spoiled little children who constantly piss and moan about how bad things are while never taking the time to see the good.
Stucky, thanks for playing…
Regarding this; “But, I’ll play, briefly. I can agree that this country was built on a “foundational immorality” ….. but, only in this sense; ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE EVIL by their very nature. All governments derive their powers from the threat of force and punishments, especially fines and prison. That is their nature. Name me one country NOT built on foundational immorality. I don’t think you can.”
All governments (alliances) are not inherently evil. Governments are an attempt to understand, lessen, and overcome, the diabolical nature of the life that we are thrust into. Our attempts to rise above the dog eat dog nature of our existence so that we can progress as a species. Those attempts in their evolutionary aggregate comprise our morality. That morality is a construct of humanity. Evil is also a construct of humans created to judge the morality being created.
Governments, and life itself, are not static, they are dynamic, and the morality ebbs and flows as we evolve. In the process, governments, which initially serve those who create them, are not considered evil by those who create them, but they may, and generally are, considered evil by those they exclude. They also become co-opted over time by internal forces. Yes, they all have a foundational immorality, that is the nature of evolution, but they also have an opportunity for amends making restitution, a jubilee if you will, and greater fairness.
Governments then are not a static entity. Governments are a dynamic process of forming morality that is expressed in their ‘rules of law’. If the process is evil it is a function of the evil of the individuals who control the alliance and those who are complicit in effecting its policy.
Again the focus needs to be on the viewpoints and behaviors of the Xtrevilist few.
http://www.boxthefox.com/deceptionology/10aggregategencorruption.html
Regarding Lindy, not my kind of guy…
“World famous pilot, Charles Lindbergh although not a financial supporter of Fascism, did make his opinions well known through his speeches. He held enormous sympathy for German Fascism in particular.
Many of his speeches requested that the United States remain neutral in the WW2 conflict that was spreading across Europe. He felt that supporting European fascism was the answer to combat Communism, which he believed was a more evil form of government than fascism.
Another belief he shared in common with the German Third Reich was that individuals of white skin color was vastly superior to other skin colors. He believed that a super race of human beings could be formed through the elimination of weaker individuals and the sterilization of unwanted races!”
http://reality-bytes.hubpages.com/hub/Americans-Who-Supported-European-Fascism
Deception is the strongest political force on the planet.
As a boy, my father rode to town in a wagon pulled by mules, a journey that took all day, to get there, do a little business and return. Now it looks like I (or my kids) will see the day when that’s the norm again.
What a wild ride it’s been this last hundred years. In the far future, if there is one, I suspect people will wonder at how so much could have been wasted, and with so much attendant damage to the environment, in just a couple of generations. It boggles my mind, and I’m living through it.
Nice piece, Stucky. It’s all downhill from here. I hope your papers are in order.
“You have known peace , prosperity and overall well being better then any group of people in history.I see most of you as ungrateful, spoiled little children ….. ” ——— bb
I’ll certainly agree with “prosperity and overall well being”, especially my generation, Boomerfuks. But, that was never the issue.
You might want to do some research regarding “peace” since WWII. Better than any group in history? Are you kidding me??
Your WORST quality (of many) is you are sooooooooo judgmental. How do you know that I, or anyone else, am ungrateful or spoiled? Because we complain about the shit we have to endure in America today? Gimme a break. What should we do? Sing Kum Bah Ya? You don’t know jack about any of our personal lives.
I, for one, am EXTREMELY grateful. I sit down to eat sardines from Portugal, cheeses from France, bread from Germany, and all those veggies in the dead of winter …. and I wonder how much longer such bounty will be available … not, much longer … and in my own way, without invoking a Guy-In-The-Sky, I am most grateful and give thanks in ways you do not comprehend. At 61, I have been blessed with near perfect health, and I am more thankful than you can imagine. I am thankful for my loved ones, practically with every breath I take.
So, please do stop being so presumptuous.
Stucky your just like Steve. Another Monday morning quarterback . You also seems to forget there was alot of doubt about our ability to win the world. If Hitler had not wasted so much man and material on the eastern front then we would not have defeated Germany.What do you think your life would have been like if America lost the War?
You people are going to get a world with America weakened and in economic ruin.You and the liberals are going to see what this world becomes without America.This world will quickly become like Africa. Torn to pieces by ethnic , tribal and racial hate. You will see America the become the same. GOD is.in the process of humbling us.After financial ruin you ungrateful , godless son of bitches will be begging GOD for mercy.You’ll be begging for the America that was.Maybe then you’ll truly see how much you and this world benefited by all those men dying.(American , British , French ,Canadian , Australian and Russian)
MarsPleaseAttack
I just think you’re pissed because I told you to “Blow Me” in a post a while back. Then again, maybe that’s just my illogical binary brain talking, complicated by myopic vision.
You’re reading much to deeply into my Greek example. OK, how about something more recent? How about this guy, one of the most remarkable humans to walk this planet? He invented a lot of stuff, and was a fairly good artist ….. and a product of Western Civilization.
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Look, this is a political article. That’s all. You want to bring in the whole freaking Western Civilization …. and condemn it …. which, imho, is fuckin nuts. But, if you want to edumucate us, feel free to post your own, much more thorough, article.
Stuck
MarsPleaseAttack is really Notquite and before that he was the failed blogger Deskpoet. He fancies himself as an intellectual, above the fray at TBP. His wife is French don’t you know, unless she has dumped him for someone with a job. Pomposity fits him well.
bb,
Let’s play. Germany never declared war on the US, and never invaded the Soviet Union (until later). Germany kicked Britain’s ass and eventually launched a successful invasion. The American public were totally against another European war and Roosevelt never dared enter the fray after being unsuccessful at baiting the Germans to attack first.
Europe was conquered and administered by the successful Germans and Italians. While preparing for a second war against his admired but hated rival, Stalin, Hitler took the time to round up the Jews and deport them. The Germans acquired France’s empire after the fall of Paris. Because the Arabs were friendly to the Germans, especiallly after ridding them of the hated British, sending them to Palestine was impossible. It was decided that instead to send them to Madagascar, off the eastern coast of Africa. There was no holocaust. The promise of zionism was fulfilled and Israel was born out of Madagascar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
” …. we would not have defeated Germany.What do you think your life would have been like if America lost the War?” ———– bb, slowly reverting back to Village Idiot
I’m Austrian by birth.
We would have stayed in Europe.
YOU would be reporting to ME … begging for your daily sustenance. I would tell you to “Blow me!” … and you have to do it.
Next question.
bb
My little experiment of communicating with you was …… interesting.
But, after reading the rest of your retarded rant @1:04PM, that has come to an end. You are really a nutjob. No more responding to you no matter what you say. Take your meds!
THE END.
Z@1:13, “There was no holocaust.”
Except that according to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps by 1935 the Nazi concentration camps were already in full swing exterminating “undesirables” from Germany.
But why let the facts get in the way of your hatred of Israel?
Fine piece of work, Stuck. I hope Ms. Freud gives you the rest of the day off and maybe a back rub later! Seriously, I’m really surprised that more “snatch and grab” sites haven’t picked this up!
MA
Stucky ,that’s not my problem. You just proved every point I was making. I said I agreed with you and by using the New Deal And the War F D R did many things that were unconstitutional. I agree with you on these issues. I know we have a benefited from the death of all those who fought the war.I am thankful so many were willing to fight so I could have a decent life.The younger generations of Americans will have a lot lower standard of living. Hell ,they probably want have a nation. The men that fought the war did leave us a whole nation. We ,I say we,have thrown it all away. It’s hard for me to believe White people could be so Damn stupid. Other then this you did a good job.Thank you for taking the time to write this post.
Mr Z ,how can you say there was no.holocaust . It’s one of most well documented facts in history. My grandfather saw some the labor camps where people were being starved to death .The death camps where in Eastern Europe but the labor camps were all over Germany.
bb
You tricked me into responding …. you little shit.
I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. Disagreement stimulates lively conversation. But …
“YOU people are going to get a world …. YOU and the liberals …… you ungrateful , godless son of bitches …… YOU’LL be begging ……. ”
I don’t have to put up with that trolling shit. So, I won’t.
.
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Then there’s this ——- “Maybe then YOU’LL truly see how much YOU and this world benefited by all those men dying.”
That?? Again??? I already covered that, I think. lol I doubt you read the article. Or, if you did, that you fully comprehend it. But, thanks for the compliment.
Stuck great article! Very high quality and dead on.
What’s everyone’s opinions on fdr having total knowledge of pearl harbor? It seams like the testimony of others says he did and a lot of shit doesn’t add up. Fdr was one psychopathic evil sob I sure as hell wouldn’t put it past him. My grandpa was in pearl harbor
N8, We had broken their naval codes. FDR knew. That’s why all of the newer ships and carriers weren’t there. What FDR may not have known was the breath of the attacks across the Pacific. I think the Philippines caught them napping.
Stucky , it just seems so many people don’t give a Damn.That Western Civilization isn’t worth fighting for .The liberal sites are the ones that are really hateful towards the country , our history , our traditions
If another war started where the nation was at risk I wonder if anyone would be willing to fight.The leftist have done a masterful job at getting people to hate their Country , heritage , traditions , and even culture. They done a good job of getting Americans to be envious and resentful of each other along class and racial lines.They have done a good job of sitting up a welfare and entitlement state. Christianity has been removed from schools , state and society to the point it doesn’t have any lasting influence.
The godless son of bitches remark was mostly about my experiences on the liberal sites .I don’t think these people would consider themselves American. They hate GOD ,NATION and I’m sure they hate me.
bb
You are most capable of making good commentary … @6:55. There is hope for you. (Llpoh, wherever you are, PLEASE don’t yell at me!) So, why in All-That-Is-Holy are you such a dick at other times? Trying to establish some type of internet “persona”? If so, try another one.
I can’t fault people who “don’t give a Damn” …. although it’s frustrating, AND I’m having more and more such days myself. It’s a Defense Mechanism for those folks. It’s probably their only way of coping with the constant barrage of bullshit and pure evil thrown at them day after day. Their Mental Faculties are on overload …. easier to shut it down before it blows, than continuing to deal with it. Some people can’t shut it down, and they Go Postal.
Are they running from the problem, instead of facing it? Yup. But, again, if they’ve never learned better coping skills, then what they need is knowledge, not condemnation.
Stucky – I agree that bb is capable of good commentary. He went through a good patch not too many weeks ago, and I would welcome that bb again. Then he decided to be an asshole again – that adds no value.
We need different opinions – they provoke thought. Even folks playing devil’s advocate can add value. But a non-stop stream of ignoramus adds nothing, and that is what he was doing. Hopefully he is deciding to abandon the bullshit and will again add some value.
Llpoh
Hoping that bb will change for the better might be like hoping Lucy won’t move the football …. again … for the millionth time. It just might not be possible.
Sooooo, whatchya think of the article?
Stuck – I will take a gander in more depth. By the length of it I assumed it was by RE. How about a synopsis?
Sticky
Excellent article. The level of your effort in researching and writing this is starkly apparent. Kudos, my good and faithful friend. Did I just say faithful?
“But, I am a much, much better writer than SSS, for sure.”
—-Sticky, in a thread comment above
You never miss an opportunity to fire off a zinger my way, do you? Anyway, in our post WWII era, what is your take on Jimmy Carter’s reorientation and focus of our foreign policy on human rights, which endures to this day. Good, bad, or indifferent?