College Campuses Mirror Society

Via Monty Pelerin

As a former college professor, I find it interesting to follow what is happening in the universities. Unfortunately, little good is occurring. The trends that I abhorred are now ingrained and de facto policy. Things like grade inflation, lack of accountability and even integrity issues have deteriorated dramatically from when I was a student and probably shockingly since I last taught.

Ron Lipsman is a man who’s views I respect. Thus, I was surprised to see a sentence like the following from him:

The university has traditionally played a societal role in converting callow youth into mature and responsible adults. Let us not subvert that role by giving in to immature and irresponsible behavior.

In my opinion, that sentence was applicable three or four decades ago. Today’s universities, at least the ones I am familiar with, abandoned his first sentence long ago. Now they behave more like overly permissive babysitters who cater to their wards’ wants, wishes and shortcomings. Students who are failing are not considered at fault. The professor has not “reached” them. More innovative teaching methods are necessary. Easier grading should be used. Etc. etc.

I am pleased to say that the majority of Mr. Lipsman’s article I am in agreement with. It is reprinted below:

The Age of Entitlement Comes to Campus

The students who failed the course largely knew that this was the likely outcome before even sitting for the final exam and – since their performance on the final confirmed their hopeless status – I had virtually no blowback from these students. But from the D students, an avalanche of email cascaded down upon me as soon as the grades were (electronically) available. The avalanche is explained in part by the following: despite the fact that D is considered a passing grade, the Engineering School will not give credit for the course unless the student obtains a C or higher grade. Thus, students who earn a D feel that, in spite of the fact that they did “good enough,” their effort was unrewarded and they are resentful that they have to repeat the course to get credit toward their degree.

Here is a typical example from the slew of emails I received – almost all of which matched this one in tone and content:

I am a second year chemical engineer and I need at least a C to pass the course. I honestly put a lot of time and effort into your class and I felt like I learned more than my course grade is reflecting. While studying for the final exam I spilled milk on my laptop, rendering it unusable. My father had to take me to the Apple store for repair. This whole ordeal took up most of my study time. I don’t mean to make excuses, but due to these circumstances I had a very short amount of time to study for the exam, and my performance was impacted. I honestly put a lot of time and effort into your class and I felt like I learned more than my course grade is reflecting. Considering all the good I’ve done throughout the semester, I think I should at least get a C. I will get kicked out of my major if I do not get a C in the class. Please reconsider my grade or even allow me to do any work to boost my grade. Once again Mr. Lipsman, I am asking out of the kindness of your heart please bump my grade up a little more, please! Please, if there is anything that you can do, I would very much appreciate it.

My typical response is a polite email, which points to the course web site (available to the students from the first day of class) that contains the grading scheme for the course; and then I highlight the specific poor points of performance on the student’s part that account for the unfortunate grade. (Conversations with colleagues reveal similar strategies.) That usually settles matters; but in a small number of cases, a student persists in pleading/demanding/scheming for a higher grade ex post facto. In that case, I turn the matter over to department or college administrators. On (fortunately, rare) occasion, matters can become rather unpleasant.

Even when I avoid such unpleasantness, I find these emails quite disturbing. Such an approach to a professor by a student would have been unthinkable two generations ago. But this kind of plea bargaining/begging for succor phenomenon has become increasingly common over the last decade or so. In fact, I believe this university student phenomenon reflects patterns of behavior that are prevalent throughout modern society. In this regard, universities reflect, as well as inaugurate and instigate various unwholesome features of our current culture.

In order to illustrate, I will identify the main themes that emerge from the email cavalcade that I endured:

  • The student claims to have worked hard on the course. In some instances, this may be true; but in many, I know that it is not. Too many students have a warped idea of what hard work actually entails.
  • The student is always a victim of some special circumstance (illness, accident, family crisis, poor advice, exceptionally challenging workload, etc.). The victim card is played often and instinctively. “It’s not my fault!”
  • The student asserts his “right to pass.” Implicit is the belief that if he is properly enrolled, in good standing and pursuing a legitimate degree program, then he is entitled to be passed through this checkpoint in his journey – regardless of performance. He is entitled to a C merely by his legitimate presence in the course.
  • “If you don’t give me a C, my future is in jeopardy.” Not only is he entitled, but the penalty for depriving him of his right will be severe. The resulting consequences for him will far outweigh any moral anguish suffered by me for distorting the legitimate outcome of the course’s process.
  • Finally, “You, professor, can fix this.” No notion of personal responsibility enters the equation. The burden of this unfortunate affair lands on my doorstep to correct the injustice. The student inhabits a cosmos in which he is not in control of his destiny.

I propose that each of the above five manifestations of the student entitlement mentality is reflective of patterns present in society in general.

  • Admittedly, this might be too heavily concentrated among government employees, but who hasn’t encountered an employee that complains of being overworked at the same time that both his inbox and outbox are suspiciously empty.
  • We’re all victims these days; of racism, sexism, ableism, and other isms you haven’t yet recognized. We’re being screwed by big corporations, small businessmen, unscrupulous co-workers, bad neighbors, even members of our family. We are all categorized into boxes according to race, gender, age, geography and so on. And we are certain that those in the other boxes are working feverishly to limit opportunities for the occupants of our box.
  • As a victim, my rights are being violated. I speak not of the rights granted to me by the Constitution, but instead those guaranteed to me by politicians.  These include my right to a great paying job, a fine home, the best medical care, a secure retirement, an exceptional education – not to mention nice clothes, top notch appliances, a month’s annual vacation and a great set of wheels. To all this, I am entitled because … well, because from FDR to Obama, I’ve been told so.
  • And if I don’t have these things, then not only are my rights being violated, but my life is being ruined.
  • Finally, it is the primary responsibility of the government to ensure that my rights are not violated and that all the things promised to me by government are delivered to me by that government.

Well, perhaps I’ve engaged in a bit of hyperbole to make a point. In fact, most students are hard-working, conscientious and respectful. But the fact that the number who are not is increasing is troublesome. That they are increasing in number could be a reflection of unhealthy trends in society in general.

Dealing with these societal issues is a topic for another time and place. But the university is equipped to cope with their manifestations on campus. I have communicated to the Department Chair, College Dean and Dean of Undergraduate Education some recommendations to do exactly that. They include:

  1. It should be explained emphatically to new students at freshman orientation that grades are not a commodity to be bargained for or negotiated over. Grades express faculty evaluation of student performance over an entire course. They are not an opening bid in an auction. They are arrived at carefully by faculty based on specific course performance criteria spelled out in detail at the start of the course. On most campuses, faculty are already obliged to make these criteria known to students at the outset of the semester.
  2. If a student feels very strongly that the grade he was issued violates the terms of the criteria, he may politely ask the faculty member for a clarification. If, after the reason for his grade is outlined to him by the faculty member, he is convinced that the faculty member has violated his own rules, then the student may file a formal grievance above the faculty member’s head at the Department or College level. American campuses have long experience in setting up structures to administer such a procedure. However, also at freshman orientation, it should be stressed to students that grade grievances should only be filed in the extremely rare instance that a faculty member has manifestly behaved unjustly.
  3. Students should also be apprised that anyone who files more than one grievance over the course of an academic career will be called in by the Dean of Undergraduate Education for an interview. At that time it can be pointed out to the student how multiple grievances are telltale signs of one or more of the unhealthy societal behaviors outlined earlier. The student would then have an opportunity to confront, evaluate and perhaps alter his cultural axioms.

The university has traditionally played a societal role in converting callow youth into mature and responsible adults. Let us not subvert that role by giving in to immature and irresponsible behavior.

This essay appeared in a slightly abridged version, under the title “Give Me a Better Grade — I Deserve It” in Minding the Campus

 

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27 Comments
backwardsevolution
backwardsevolution
August 2, 2014 7:19 pm

So true. Very well written article. How many times do you ever hear someone say, “Okay, I f’cked up. It’s my fault.” Seldom. Everyone seems to feel so entitled.

The government enables people, but the people also enable the government. Look how the government/Wall Street/corporations/media have lied, changed rules when it suited them, never held anyone responsible, and ended up profiting more than ever. I suppose people have accepted that this is normal behavior and want some of it for themselves. Perhaps it explains why people haven’t been on the streets rioting.

Everybody wants something for nothing.

Gayle
Gayle
August 2, 2014 7:29 pm

These complaining students have been playing this game since at least 3rd grade. They were schooled by their parents to believe that their wonderful selves were being unfairly treated by
their mean/incompetent teachers. They were sympathized with and probably assisted by mom and dad to encourage teachers to make exceptions. The students who don’t play this card were taught early on to accept responsibility for their mistakes. Trust me on this.

If a teacher does try to hold students to a high standard these days and too many fail, then the teacher is blamed by the admin and told to lighten up.

overthecliff
overthecliff
August 2, 2014 9:16 pm

Alittle more money spent on education will fix this,right? Smaller class sizes more computers in the class rooms and especially more money for well connected experts to tell overpaid administrators how to make it better. (sarcasm off)

Jeb
Jeb
August 2, 2014 11:10 pm

When everyone has a college degree and no-one knows how to fix a leaky pipe, who will be making $100/hr fixing leaky pipes for all the psychologists in the world?

Screw college. Go into the trades and ream them with a dollar bill up their arse. That’ll learn them a lesson more valuable than all the drunken time they spent in those useless institutions.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
August 3, 2014 12:20 am

I’m sympathetic to the professor but where has he been living for the last 20 years or so? I guess he never heard of “everybody gets a trophy for participation” or the passing “E” grade for effort. That crap even translated to adults who get mortgages and car loans for having a pulse.

By the time Common Core is fully implemented kids won’t even have to attend college to get a degree…….just sign on the dotted line for school loans, go do whatever you want for a few years and your degree will arrive by mail shortly thereafter.

Mike Moskos
Mike Moskos
August 3, 2014 4:30 am

I was thinking about this the other night. You spend a few weeks working on a long paper, the professor reads it in 15 minutes, makes some comments in the margins, adds a grade. You get the paper back, spend a few minutes looking at it and move on. The class moves on to new subjects.

NO CHANCE TO IMPROVE. A C student stays a C student.

Now, we know why it works this way: so much material to get through, not enough professor time to for a given number of students, etc. The effect is that the students don’t get appreciably better. No one works with them one on one to help them. What we have is an educational system designed more to weed people out than to improve them. It needs to change. Maybe it will with Khan Academy doing the teaching at home via video with classroom time devoted to the teacher and other students tutoring students who aren’t up to par in a certain area.

Mark
Mark
August 3, 2014 6:43 am

Maybe if the student didn’t get bogged down with elective such as Art History he would have had more time to concentrate on his major. And do additional lab work by actually pulling things apart and reengineer them. By re-engineering I mean actually figuring hoe things work in the real world as opposed to the abstract world of academia.

Then again the University wouldn’t get to pad its tuition costs with a bunch of useless subject matter.

Oops I thunk a conspiracy there.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
August 3, 2014 7:15 am

I’m kind of surprised that the professor is even mentioning this. Has it been any other way over the course of the past 20-30 years? I see it everywhere, in all things, and it seems to involve the majority of people.

And anyone who confuses a college as place for someone to obtain an education as opposed to a credential is deluded. Maybe for some small minority (perhaps the same number who in past generations would have been the only students in attendance based on intelligence and drive) but for the majority- the mass- it is simply about collecting another “token” required by the gatekeepers to further screen for compliance and docility.

A real education is something that you obtain for yourself, through your own inquisitive nature, with the requisite diligence and effort needed to obtain any worthwhile thing.

I certainly can’t speak for this particular professor but for the majority they are doing a job most computers programs could do for a fraction of the cost. Being an “educator” of “learners” (no, I am not making those titles up, they are the new standard in academia) is like being a corrections officer with nicer clothing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, STEM, STEM, STEM.

Tell it to Thomas Alva Edison.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
August 3, 2014 7:35 am

Had to add the following-

I received an email this morning from a young man we know who is now at one of the top Universities in the country pursuing his PhD- I believe he is going to be in his 7th year of college. Never worked anything but part time jobs in service sector and his long range plans are, at least to me, still unclear other than obtaining yet another degree.

Here are the first few sentences from his email-

“Sorry I didn’t write sooner. The past few months have been hectic, always busy with so many stuff. Was suppose to leave my job by May, but was requested to stay back until sometime in June. Even then, I have been running up and down in preparation for my move.”

This is what seven years of higher learning do for someone. Please don’t try and tell me that his grammatical errors are somehow acceptable because he was “busy with so many stuff” or because it’s only an email. You either know how to communicate with someone through the proper use of language or you do not. It isn’t something you intentionally turn on and off.

This is a young man who should have been working at something befitting his intellectual capacity 7 years ago. Had he chosen that path he would have been a third of the way to his retirement by now instead of robbing some deserving student of a slot and racking up a lifetime debt just so he could collect degrees like they were pogs.

Gotta go deliver some piglets. Not the same as soaking up rays on the Jersey Shore, but equally entertaining to be sure.

Olga
Olga
August 3, 2014 9:17 am

I read recently – and I’m paraphrasing now – that it was more-or-less during the Reagan years that college tuition started to explode.

Initially America had looked upon college graduates as a benefit to our entire culture and felt obliged to subsidize them to some level.

But a study done somewhere came out that stated college grads went on to earn substantial amounts of money over and above non-grads and it was decided that it was foolish not to make the students “pay-to-play”.

Is it any wonder now that degrees has been commoditized that one is no longer a beneficiary of an earned degree but rather a consumer of a product and that said “consumers” might now feel like they have a right to complain when their money isn’t buying the product they desire?

When the universities decided to “trade” in degrees they gave up the privileges that went with effort and award – and the whole college system became a spiraling money pit / degree factory they are now required to prop up for their own survival.

overthecliff
overthecliff
August 3, 2014 10:07 am

1970 required course, ArtX (appreciation). No study no learning. The professor knew it,we knew it the administration knew it. The only thing I recall about that class is that the professor advocated that 1% of all public building projects be allocated to art. That was to enrich the lives of the public (artists).

It is amazing how a person can justify fascist plunder, if he is the fascist.

backwardsevolution
backwardsevolution
August 3, 2014 1:24 pm

I agree with what I posted above (everybody expects something for nothing), but I also agree with what Mike, Mark, hardscrabble and Olga said. These people are part of a mill, cranked out with a piece of paper in hand. As Mike said, no real chance for improvement and, as Mark said, useless electives. That’s because their heart isn’t in it. Unless you really love something and go at it on your own, as hardscrabble said, then you’re really wasting your time. We all gravitate towards something – all of us – and we must find that.

The hoops these kids must pass through to get their degree – much of it a waste of time. A lot of these kids take the same mindless obedience to the jobs they end up getting, blindly following directions, never deviating, never thinking out of the box, and they end up being robotic clipboard holders who don’t advance anything.

And the hoops get bigger every year. On several occasions I’ve heard someone say that their child was doing in Grade 10 math what they did when they were in second year university. They just keep adding more and more content, as if to justify their fees. It was relatively easy back in the day as opposed to now.

Olga, it all started during the Reagan years. I’m not blaming him, but the people behind him. That’s really when the debt began in earnest and everything was turned into a commodity.

Find out what you love before you knee-jerk sign up for university. Going through just to get a degree and a pay cheque doesn’t advance society one bit, let alone yourself. You end up standing still.

llpoh
llpoh
August 3, 2014 8:06 pm

I was driving a friend of one of my kids to a get together the other day. This young man is nice enough, but not the brightest twig on the tree. He has a degree in criminology from a not very good school, and has struggled for quite some time getting a job in his chosen field of crime fighting (I know, I know – I have done my best to talk him out of that, to no avail).

He received a phone call from some crime fighting agency or other while we were driving, as they wanted him to come in for an interview, as he had passed the entrance exam.

I could not hear the other side of the conversation, but his side went something like this:

Him: : “Yo, wa’s up”
Him: “Yep, that’s me”.
Him: “Yep, that’s me – I took the test”
Him: “Cool, man.”
Him: “Real cool. Friday at 10. Cool.”
Him: “No problem, cool. See ya’.”

Later in the day, my kid said “Hey, isn’t it great that (my friend) is getting an interview for that (crime fighting) job!? Maybe he will get this one!”

I said “He is never going to get that job”.
My kid: “Why not?”
Me: “Because he came across as a blithering idiot. I would not hire him to push a broom in my factory after a conversation like that, much less hire him to be a (crime fighter).” My kid then asked a few more questions, where I pointed out the issues in more detail. He got the pcture pretty fast, but I think he felt that in the “new world” those things probably would not matter. (BTW – I have never heard my kid speak like the friend – his mother and I would never allow it.) I Told him, “We will see – want to bet on it?” He didn’t take me up on it.

Next day, the friend received a call canceling his interview. No reason was given.

I was not surprised. My child learned a valuable lesson, but the friend is still in the dark and has no idea that he screwed himself by being unable to carry on a professional conversation.

Colleges are not meant to force feed students. Time in class is limited to perhaps 15 hours per week. The student should be spending at least another 30 to 40 hours per week on their own learning the material. Instead, I have read where students are now studying around 10 hours per week on average. A lot would be studying zero hours.

This stuff happens at a much earlier age. The seed is sown far earlier. The parents are at fault, not the colleges, in my opinion. The colleges bend to the pressure of the little darlings, as they need the enrollment. But it is the entitled attitude that the kids bring that is the root of the problem.

But there is good news – kids with a good work ethic who understand what needs to be done to get an education are going to leave the blithering idiots who are their competition in the dust. And that applies after college as well.

As for my kid’s friend – he is screwed, and will continue to push shopping trolleys around for the foreseeable future, as he has no clue as to why he cannot land a professional job even though he has a “degree” in criminology.

backwardsevolution
backwardsevolution
August 3, 2014 9:02 pm

Lipoh – why didn’t you just tell the boy nicely that he didn’t sound too professional? Just start with: “A little word of advice…..”

I once parroted back a saying that my father always said. I was young. My classy boss asked me what I said. I repeated it. I guess he could see by the look on my face that I was clueless about what I had said. He then asked me what it meant. I stopped, then said I had no idea. He told me that perhaps I should have an idea about what something meant before I said it. He was right. I never said that phrase again. The best boss I ever had. He taught me a valuable lesson.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 3, 2014 9:25 pm

Backward – I considered it. But truth is it runs too deep in the lad. My judgement is that it is ingrained in him. He is 23, and it is something his father should have dealt with. Trouble is his father is the same. I decided I would cause pain for no gain. He is not my child, not my responsibility in the end. I asked my child if one of us should bring it up to him, and the answer was “hell no”!

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
August 3, 2014 10:12 pm

llpoh, in all likelihood you did the right thing. However, over my life I’ve been told many things, some just in passing, that at the time meant little or nothing to me or even angered me. It was only later in life I realized the wisdom the words held and the good intentions of those delivering them.

You never know what is going to stick or when. I know you already know this from the battles with Clammy.

backwardsevolution
backwardsevolution
August 3, 2014 10:27 pm

lipoh – yes, it is up to parents to point their children in the right direction, but sometimes they don’t. My thought is that if you can raise someone up a little, elevate them in a very subtle and kind way, why not? Even if they don’t take your advice, if it is done in a nice way, they will remember it once they come around to it all on their own.

llpoh
llpoh
August 3, 2014 10:38 pm

IS/Backward – it is difficult. In the end, I decided it would fall into the “no good deed goes unpunished” basket, and would possibly/likely cause trouble between my child and him, and possibly between my family and his. They are lifelong friends, although now are headed in entirely separate directions, and I wanted to avoid the possibility of friction. Most folks do not accept criticism, helpful and well-intentioned or otherwise. My expectation was it would come across as “you really are an idiot with no communication skills and cannot get a job with your attitude” – no matter how I phrased it – especially as he is an idiot and has no communication skills. I was – probably rightfully – afraid that I could not sugar-coat it enough that he would swallow it well.

I have offered him advice previously where possible on this general subject, and he has shown no interest. I have not ever pointed out that he was making big mistakes, but rather pointed out options and things to think about. He has shown no inclination to listen, so far be it for me to go further.

backwardsevolution
backwardsevolution
August 3, 2014 11:06 pm

lipoh – fair enough, sometimes it can cause friction.

TE
TE
August 4, 2014 11:45 am

Great article, great comments.

One thing I would add, this excuse and entitlement behavior starts in the public-union-educated system.

I cannot believe the sheer number of excuses that come from my child’s elementary administration and teaching staff.

There is always some excuse, usually starts with, “thanks to budget cuts,” no wonder the children, and their parents, pick up on it.

For cripes’ sake, the school has para-pros (sub/temp teachers) that attend school with students. One para-pro to two students that are deemed worthy of extra help.

Then these little handheld darlings end up graduating and going on to college and what, we don’t think the special treatment would have to continue?

College used to be a training school that just happened to be really well rounded. Now it is a liberal indoctrination ground that only wants to churn out more academics and “experts” with no life experience and many fewer brain cells than dollars owed for “education.”

ANYONE that wants to learn ANYTHING, at least in this country, for now, has the ability to do so. The internet is the world’s largest university that barely charges a connection fee.

The fact that we argue about the “state” of “education” in a world where more information is free and readily available than has EVER been at the ready for the masses, proves just how ignorant we are.

Crap, give the kid a C. Every city planner in the country needs another no-experience, no-reasoning, engineer to green light the shoddy construction and help green light kicking the can on maintenance to the next decade.

SISO, remember these tales the next time you rely on an “expert” in this country. Especially if said expert is under the age of 40.

Billy
Billy
August 4, 2014 12:15 pm

I was working some chump job or other – won’t be specific, because you know..

Anyways, this skinny white kid comes walking up, maybe 20 years old. Shaved head, but about a 4 day growth of beard on his face. Dirty t-shirt that said “PROPERTY OF KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS” (no, I’m not kidding. His shirt actually said that), etc..

Him: ‘Sup yo! Ize lookin for a job! This where I put in my app? When can I interview?”

Me: “Uh, you want an interview? To work HERE?”

Him: “Yep.”

Me: “You ain’t gonna get an interview dressed like that.”

He just got this shitty look on his face and stomped off. Dude came in looking like an ex-con, wearing a shirt that said PROPERTY OF KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, speaking like some street thug nigger… no way in hell will he get a job like that.

But, apparently he can’t handle the truth when it is spoken freely and bluntly… he wants to pretend to be an ex-con, that’s his business… but he’s not gonna get a job dressed or speaking like an asshat.

ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
August 4, 2014 2:29 pm

I took Calculus without having had Trig first. No big deal, I could learn Trig at the same time as Calculus.

I also took Physical Chemistry and Advanced Microbiology – Immunology that semester.

Helluva time. I got shit grades all through Calculus but barely managed to eke out a C by snagging a 98% on the comprehensive final.

Now, using our “chemical engineer”‘s argument, I would deserve an A. After all, I got the highest grade on the final, and obviously had mastered the content.

Unfortunately for our little darling, courses aren’t just meant to teach the information on the syllabus. You also get free lessons in time management, punctuality, communication, and dependability. If your professor is worth a damn, you probably got some lessons in humility as well.

I knew this at the time. I took my C with pride, knowing what I had overcome just to get that grade. This little shitstain thinks that just because he thinks he knows some shit the world owes him a favor.

flash
flash
August 4, 2014 2:38 pm

7 Reasons Why American Culture Is The Most Degenerate In The World

If we wanted to measure the morality of a culture, what would be the best way to do so? Some may suggest looking at statistics of crime or drug use. Others would tell you to look at divorce rates, church participation, or births that take place out-of-wedlock. Many of these would provide a good clue as to the health of a culture, but even some atheists would agree that a thorough measure would be to stack up the culture against the seven deadly sins, which were introduced into the Christian faith to help its adherents avoid sin. If you use this yardstick on American culture, it’s hard not to conclude that it is indeed the most degenerate in the world.

http://www.rooshv.com/7-reasons-why-american-culture-is-the-most-degenerate-in-the-world

Persnickety
Persnickety
August 4, 2014 3:30 pm

Good essay that I mostly agree with. Where I differ is in the use of a curve for grading, with or without grade inflation. Classes in objective areas, such as math, should be graded objectively. Define the focus of the course and the specific areas of knowledge which a student should learn from the course. At the final examination, grade students based on the extent to which they have mastered the previously defined areas of knowledge for the course. It is possible for 100% of the class to get 100%, or 0% of the class to get 100%, or even pass.

I was fortunate that most of my college courses were graded objectively, not on a curve. I got a 4.0 in a statistics course where fully one-third of the class failed to pass (yes, 0.0). It was a difficult course, but I studied. Many of those who failed did not study, and others simply were not bright enough. I consider this fair.

Billy
Billy
August 5, 2014 3:53 pm

@ Chemist…

Back in University, I hadn’t touched maths for over 20 years. Seriously. Thought I could jump in the deep end of the pool right off, since I smoked maths all through High School (back in the 80’s)….

Erm… no. Didn’t work out that way. I resigned myself to the fact that I was going to have to end up in the maths lab (a free calculus clinic held in the basement) every spare minute I had. Spent most of the semester camped out in the lab so much, they knew me by my first name and I had pretty much earned my own seat and table…

I struggled mightily with calculus. I pulled a “C”. I’d rather take the hard “C” over the easy “A”… and I was proud I got it. Didn’t ask for any freebies and I worked my ass off.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
August 5, 2014 4:20 pm

Llpoh,

I once told a couple of my son’s friends that I don’t like tattoos and wouldn’t hire anyone with tattoos. They got sad because their parents had tattoos. I tried to be a little less venomous, but still insisted that 1) I’m the one doing the hiring and I can discriminate against the tattooed. 2) Since a tattoo will never get you hired but could keep you from getting hired, getting tattoos is stupid – and I don’t want to hire stupid people. For a while after that I thought I had imparted a good – if painful – lesson to them, but I later heard that one of them was planning on getting tatted as soon as he turns 18. I guess he’ll really be showing me for indirectly putting his parents down.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 5, 2014 5:47 pm

Iska – it starts with the parents. Your wisdom will likely be unheeded. The apple falls close to the tree, generally.