Guest Post by
Former Clinton Administration Labor Secretary Robert Reich recently called on the government to force young people to spend two years either “serving” in the military or performing some other type of government-directed “community service.” Neoconservative Senator John McCain has introduced legislation creating a mandatory national service program very similar to Reich’s proposal. It is not surprising that both a prominent progressive and a leading neocon would support mandatory national service, as this is an issue that has long united authoritarians on the left and right.Proponents of national service claim that young people have a moral obligation to give something back to society. But giving the government power to decide our moral obligations is an invitation to totalitarianism.Mandatory national service is not just anti-liberty, it is un-American.
Whether or not they admit it, supporters of mandatory national service do not believe that individuals have “inalienable rights.” Instead, they believe that rights are gifts from the government, and, since government is the source of our rights, government can abridge or even take away those rights whenever Congress decides.Mandatory national service also undermines private charitable institutions. In a free society, many people will give their time or money to service projects to help better their communities, working with religious or civic associations. But in a society with government-enforced national service, these associations are likely to become more reliant on government-supplied forced labor. They will then begin to tailor their programs to satisfy the demands of government bureaucrats instead of the needs of the community.
The very worst form of national service is, of course, the military draft, which forces young people to kill or be killed on government orders. The draft lowers the cost of an interventionist foreign policy because government need not compete with private employers for recruits. Anyone who refuses a draft notice runs the risk of being jailed, so government can provide lower pay and benefits to draftees than to volunteers.As the burden of our hyper-interventionist foreign policy increases, it is increasingly likely that there will be serious attempts to reinstate the military draft. General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, continues to suggest that US troops on the ground may be needed to fight “Operation Inherent Resolve” in Iraq and Syria. A major escalation requiring a large US troop deployment will likely add pressure to consider a military draft.
The only real way the American people can protect their children from the military draft is to demand an end to the foreign policy that sees the US military as the solution to any and every problem — from ISIS to Ebola — anywhere in the world.
Some who share my opposition to a militaristic foreign policy support the draft because they think a draft will increase public opposition to war. However, the existence of a draft did not stop the American government from launching unconstitutional wars in Vietnam and Korea. While the draft did play a role in mobilizing political opposition to Vietnam, it took almost a decade and the death of thousands of American draftees for that opposition to reach critical mass.
It is baffling that conservatives who (properly) oppose raising taxes would support any form of national service, including the military draft. It is similarly baffling that liberals who oppose government interference with our personal lives would support mandatory national service. Mandatory national service is a totalitarian policy that should be rejected by all who value liberty.
“Mandatory” and “service” should never be used together. It is an oxymoron. Anything that is mandatory, well, that simply isn’t a service.
Mandatory Slavery, now that’s more accurate.
We are ruled by demons.
DEMONS.
It’s nothing more than a tax. The gubmint getting two years of cheap / unpaid labor. While the teachers / police / fire / state workers bleed us dry via their union contracts.
Think about it – you would not graduate from college until you were 24-25!
Stealing the time in someone’s life is no different than fractional murder.
It’s long past time we started seeing this in just such terms.
Just wait.
Sooner or later the “deal” will be to excuse the recent college grad’s 8000 lb student loan debt in “exchange” for “volunteering” to be cannon fodder or the slave to whatever political fad of the day animates the demons who rule us.
Your sons and daughters will go when drafted . There want be a Damn thing you can do about it especially if it’s another world war.My father served in Vietnam after being drafted . What makes your sons special DC or your son Stucky?My grandfather volunteered for world war 2 but my Father was forced to serve in Vietnam. Admin , you have 3 sons.Why should they get out of doing military service.?oh pls tell me.
I think it’s interesting that the guy’s last name who proposed this is “Reich.”
Granted, it could just be a coincidence, and mean nothing. On the other hand, the guy’s name was not “Smith” or “Jones” it was “Reich”.
“What makes your sons special DC or your son Stucky?” ————- Village Idiot
Son number 1 was diagnosed as schizophrenic. The crazy fucker would shoot up the base.
Son number 2 is married to a darkie from Namibia. He probably already has ebola, or will get it when he goes to Africa in December, so he would infect the whole base.
That’s why.
bb, did your mother actually have any children that lived?
@Stucky, remember that your income taxes are “voluntary payments.” No joke.
I volunteered. Nobody forced me to sign on the dotted line. It was MY choice.
My son will have the same choice – to volunteer or not. I do not support a draft and I never will. If someone agrees with the reasons why their country is going to war, then let them step up. If not, then stay your ass home. If you don’t want to be there and resent the hell out of being there, then it will show, you’ll be in the way and you’re gonna get folks killed. When you institute a draft, you get great heaps of whiny shirkers instead of people who WANT to be there…
Still, having the skill set of a true Light Fighter will pay big dividends down the road… the only place you can really get that – for the average citizen – is by enlisting as Combat Arms – an Infantryman or a Marine Rifleman…
It is a good thing, I think, that my son is a dual-national. If he does not want to serve the Leviathan on their terms, he can go elsewhere and serve on his own terms… at least he will have a small amount of control over his own destiny. Which is as it should be.
I agree with RP, DC Sunsets and Stucky. “National service” is a form of slavery. In fact, I cannot see how it would not violate the 13th Amendment, which outlaws slavery. It’s not even a close case.
But, then, the Constitution is hardly followed or respected any more anyway, this would simply be offense #2845992 against it.
@bb, the US has never faced an existential threat, INCLUDING in WWII. Never. There has never been a threat that might, even in the statists’ views, justify a military draft here. Further, if you actually believe in individual rights, a draft is never justified – why should you be forced to risk your life to defend a state, which you have rights against? Total bullshit. It’s a tool of authoritarians and the wealthy vampires who prey on everyone else. War is a racket, so says one of the most decorated Marines in history.
(and by the way, my grandfather served in WWII)
I feel compelled to disagree. I respect Mr. Paul immensely, but COL(ret) Charles Hackworth actually argued a national draft would be a good thing for the nation. Lok him up-he was not what you would call a hawk, but he was pro-soldier.
For one, he believed it would reduce the careerist mindset of the military. I think that makes sense-if most of the military is draftees who are there against their will, they are unlikely to be the type of people who will do anything just to get ahead. A draftee army might be much less likely to follow orders they fundamentally disagree with.
Hackworth stated the draft army was refreshing because troops were honest-they weren’t afraid to speak their mind.
My dad had the same experience in the Navy during Korea. He said the military changed drastically when the govt drafted all the WWII vets back into service to fight again. For one, he said all those vets were pissed and just wanted to get the war finished so they could go home. He said they didn’t take crap from anyone, either. They didn’t back down in the face of “chicken shit” regulations or high-handed know-nothing non-vet officers.
I believe the draft served and would serve a useful purpose breaking down race, class, ethnic, and cultural barriers. In WWII, for instance, the draft was the first major mixing of people in this nation from all backgrounds, i.e. Rednecks and City Boys, Jews and Evangelicals and Mormons, Yankees and Rebels. I think the draft also helped end racism, since it did force Whites and Blacks and Hispanics to work together. (Anyone who has been in the military can affirm that still happens today. You meet everyone and, regardless of how you feel, you still have to work together.)
The draft would also provide trade/professional skills to young people who might not otherwise have access to education. Young people might benefit from access to training in useful skills ranging from engine repair to computer programming. Actually, depending on your outlook, it’s either a jobs program for young people that helps them get started in life, or it’s just another burden for the tax payers, providing yet another social welfare program. Assuming, or course, the military doesn’t look to just use draftees as low-skilled labor….
A draft might help provide a unifying effect in our culture. With millions of young people from all walks of life coming together to share this experience, I believe they would also share a certain cultural experience that helps define what it is to be an American. With so many other institutions of American life demolished and no longer unifying us, i.e. church, civic groups, boy scouts, etc, perhaps the military can help fill the gap? It might also broaden the perspectives of people who have no experience outside their particular groups or sub-cultures. I guess that’s open to debate. Do you support the idea of having a shared American identity above membership in different groups and sub-cultures? Do you “American-ness” as something special? I don’t foresee a return to the days of being a citizen of a state, then a citizen of the nation, no matter how much I wish it were so. I don’t think there’s enough to bind people to their states anymore-people change their states as easily as their shoes when it benefits them.
Finally, and most importantly, I think a draft would help end America’s militarism. I think the average American is happy to ignore the news, ignore current events, and ignore what the military is doing, since everyone volunteered. With a draft, practically everyone is going to have someone they know who served, is serving, or will serve at some point. That will probably make what the military is doing and where a lot more important. With most families involved in some way, or other, politicians will have to think twice before committing troops to 3rd world pizza delivery missions, pointless brushfire wars, and “fighting” unfightable deadly diseases in faraway places. So a draft might, ultimately, be self-defeating for the statist hawks.
“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
Stucky , I am the only surviving child.
Pen head ,don’t get all hootie, you probably need military training. Even now.
Billy , So your son has duel citizenship . Still no reason not to serve.
All you bitch and moan about our culture being one of folly.So forced military service would get everyone’s attention. They would for the first time have some SKIN in the game.Like Israel has a two year program were all young people have to be in military service.It works there and it would work here.
Gil,
All respect to Hack – THE most highly decorated American soldier since forever (and his book “About Face” is a classic, as well as a crackin’ good read) – he was a badass. The genuine article. But the reservoirs of citizens that the government drew on to flesh out the WWII and Korean War military were and are entirely different generations.
I put forth the argument that the generations that grew up directly impacted by the Great Depression were and are much more moral generations than what we have today. They also were and are tougher. Hard as nails. The country that gave birth to those generations hadn’t fallen to the rot yet, either. The Ultra-Douchebag Boomers hadn’t even been born yet…
To think that a bunch of whiny, narcissistic, everyone-gets-a-trophy douchebag Minnies and Occutards can populate the military against their will and have that military be a duplicate of the WWII and Korean War military is a pipe dream…
I knew the military was rotting from the inside out when I was forced to go to my first mandatory “sensitivity training” meeting… a harbinger of death if there ever was one… Now, EO rules all. Don’t get promoted? Must be racism. Or sexism. Or some other type of -ism… The flip side is worse – AA appointees funnel their racial brethren into choice schools and prime slots, while sticking it to anyone they don’t personally like. Females trade sexual favors for the same things – choice schools, plum assignments, etc… anyone who bitches becomes Persona Non Grata or has to attend endless “sensitivity training” meetings….
As far as your “melting pot” argument, the Army of WWII was segregated. The Army I was in? Still segregated, the difference being soldiers self-segregated… yeah, you did what you had to do to complete the mission, but on your own time, you associated with whomever you wanted. The other thing is that the closer you get to the enemy, the whiter the troops get. Infantryland is mostly white. Parachute Infantry even whiter. Rangers overwhelmingly white. Special Forces and Delta are about 100% white. The “minorities” are shacked up in the REMF support jobs – cooks, admin, gas pumpers, truck drivers… for them, the farther away from bodily harm, the better. Since it’s all voluntary, the Army can’t force anyone to go SF or to Jump School… they can offer incentives – massive reenlistment bonuses, choice of duty station, etc – but other than that, no.
That does NOT engender togetherness… whites stare down a bullet while the “minorities” flip burgers… Yeah, I’m not feeling the love…
Sorry bro… can’t and won’t support a draft…
bb talks about his father and grandfather having served …. doesn’t mention HIMSELF
Give me an H
Give me a Y
Give me a P
Give me an O
Give me a C
Give me an R
Give me an I
Give me a T
Give me an E
Conscription is Government mandated altruism. Altruism is the theory that the individual should sacrifice themselves for the good of the collective. You should strive to be a collector rather than a collectee.
Billy be bob ,for once you really get it .Morals make the man .Where oh where did they get those strong morals.If you say CHRISTIANITY you win the lottery. Praise the Lord ,finally someone other then myself understands the real value of religion..Strong moral values gave them a love for GOD and country but now that’s all gone.You need to worry Billy ,when we have the real crash the enemy we be you next door neighbor who is nothing more then a Damn pagan thanks to our own government. A hurricane of violence will hit this country. Our nation will burn like no other in history. Everybody will befighting everyone. Our nation will go into a totalitarian government or break completely in to various parts.That’s how this 4 turning ends Billy be Bob.
Vietnam was in full swing when I graduated from HS. Even at that time, I knew it was a crock of shit. I sure as hell wouldn’t have gone if drafted.
WWII was different – a real declared war – and there was a defined mission.
Nowadays, who hell want’s to get maimed / injured / PTSD by some towel head with an IED, in an undeclared war fighting Cro-Magons, for what reason?
Charles Hackworth …. a MILITARY guy …. arguing for a national draft. Now THERE’S a surprise.
You can dress up a pig all you want … but it’s still a pig.
He says, “A draft might help provide a unifying effect in our culture.” hahahahaha As Billy said, as SOON as we were on our own time, the neegrows and whites went their own way … and that way was as far away from the other race as possible. The rest of his reasons are equally flawed.
BB-
They may be sucky, wussy pampered brats, but how would they ever get anywhere if not challenged? Those generations were tough because they had to be-they were challenged a lot. Our kids today could be tough if they were challenged, too.
And the white thing? True, but not the whole truth. I suspect the draftees wouldn’t exacty get their first choice every time. And with a draft, I suspect the EO could be put out to pasture. EVERYONE gets a shot as a draftee. But you’re right about the corruption.
Self-segregation? Nuthin’ wrong with that in my book. You have the right to hang out with who you want, no matter where you are and what you do. In the military, you’re still going to spend lots of time with folks you wouldn’t, ordinarily. And that’s probably a good thing.
bb stops by AGAIN to vomit his diarrhea on yet another thread …. thus ending my discussion here.
see ya
Stucky , I did sign up for selective service . I was available . Now that I am alot older I wish I had some military survival skills .Instead of going into the military I went to work for Duke Power. One of the best jobs I ever had.If I would have stayed at Duke Power I would already be retired.
Stucky , Damn. Don’t get mad .I just think some military training would be good.for young people .Maybe just a year. I wish I had learned some survival skills. The military seems the best place to learn those kinds of skills. That’s all.
I also agree that any one who wants to go should go. The first people to go should be the ones calling for war. Most of the masses have already had the patriotism taxed out of them. Stupid old fucks like bb should be the first to go. He has less life to live than any young guy.
What a douche!
No fuckin way my kids would go if forced either.
I got my 1A classification one week after graduating from college in 1969. I took the tests for Naval Aviation and USAF and did well in both. Signed up for Pensacola to begin in early ’70. I figured that going to Vietnam in the cockpit of a jet was the best deal I could get. I was going in some capacity, such is the reality of the draft. I am against the draft because conscription is the ultimate theft of a person’s liberty. Overall the military experience was good for me. I learned how to fly and have been working in aviation for almost 45yrs. However, the choice to join should have been voluntary, not forced upon me by the govt.
Stucky,
The characteristics that make one a good military leader do not necessarily equate to one being an equally good social engineer…
The guy made a suggestion based on the tools he had at hand… at least he TRIED.
One guy, no matter how much of a badass or how highly decorated, cannot fix the cluster of fucks that is the racial train wreck in this country…. the ONLY solution is voluntary segregation. They go their way, we go ours. Neither interferes with the other and both are free to define their own destiny as they see fit…
But, of course, the multi-culti shitbags would have you believe we can all live in some soupy brown mess and nirvana will magically be achieved…
Nope… ain’t gonna happen.
Stucky,
if you never read Hackworth, you really missed out. The man was not who you think he was. Hackworth turned his back on the Army after Vietnam and became one of its biggest, harshest critics.
After taking some time to get the war out of his head, he became a war correspondent and used his platform to criticize what he called the Perfumed Princes in DC and in the highest ranks, while trying to draw attention and support to the Joes on the ground. As a result, he became a real hero to the troops and gained a lot of access the average reporter couldn’t.You would probably like him, if you read his columns from back in the day.
Please read his autobiography and Steel My Soldiers’ Hearts: The Hopeless to Hardcore Transformation of U.S. Army, 4th Battalion, 39th Infantry, Vietnam. Hell, next time you’re in a bookstore, just glance at his books for a while (it’s Free!) Hackworth was not just another guy trying to climb to the stars. Even if half his story was self-promoting BS, it’s still one heck of a story.
I suppose, that as a Libertarian, I am not extremely interested in “unifying” our culture, and believe that attempts to do just that is part of the problem we have in this country.
Collectivism is collectivism, and collectivism is slavery, always. One of the founding principles of this nation is that the individual owns his (and her) life, and no one has the right to claim any part of it without the voluntary consent of the individual.
Military conscription aggravates class differences, as boys from upper-middle and upper-class backgrounds are either able to access a variety of deferments (notably student and farm deferments), enter branches of the military where they are protected from combat, or enter at an elevated rank that confers similar protection.
Conscription also encourages military adventurism, and the literal WASTE of men, as they are always available through the draft after hundreds are killed needlessly because of bad strategy. It strikes me that American forces won wars only by vastly outnumbering enemy forces, an indication that we were not deploying our assets as efficiently as we could have been.
But, most of all, conscription for military or other “service” means that the collective- the “people”, the “community” , the government- owns your life.
It is tragically ironic that we ended slavery, which should never for one minute have existed after the formation of the republic, for the involuntary servitude of military conscription. But there is nothing in human nature so persistent and so refractory to reformation, than the urge to dominate, and OWN, other humans for one’s own gain.
bb, my sons got all the military training they need. They could put a 5.56mm bullet through the face of anyone expressing the intent, collective or individual, of depriving them of the life they are steering for themselves. That includes the huns invading over yon hill…regardless of their “citizenship.”
People who support the monopoly, centrally-planned, politically-animated joke that “defense” are complete and utter fucking morons. Persnickety alludes to the truth; the entire thing is a sham, a propaganda play from beginning to end intended (as Goering so eloquently illustrated) to keep the rabble in line and slaving away building the current Pharaoh’s pyramids.
It’s like putting the DMV in charge of “saving us.” Puh-leeze.
Do you think sending lots of proto-adults into work at the DMV (or post office) would make better people of them? Have I got a bridge to sell you…
This country won’t be improved by reinstituting the draft, any more than it would be improved by giving every 18 year old a year in the nearest federal penitentiary.
bb, I’m too lazy to search back to see if you have any sons or daughters. I can only assume the answer is no.
There are two kinds of parents: Those who will, as lemming-minded herd animals of the tribe, offer up their children for ritual human sacrifice to the false gods they and their neighbors worship, and those who would cut the heart out of anyone who attempted to harm their offspring, no matter who the hell they are, what office they occupy or what costume they wear.
Take a guess which one I respect.
When the Canadians march on the Upper Peninsula, call me and I’ll muster. Of course, the Central Americans invaded these past 10 years and your happy army was over murdering the Wogs in Mesopotamia.
If the military was any less useful for actual defense, and any more useful as an inciter of back-blast, I have no doubt that we’d already be living in Walking Dead Land.
“Collectivism is collectivism, and collectivism is slavery, always. One of the founding principles of this nation is that the individual owns his (and her) life, and no one has the right to claim any part of it without the voluntary consent of the individual. ”
And, I might add, collectivism DOESN’T WORK. If it did, the USSR would be THE place to be.
People seem to grasp (dim bulb that most are) that if the boobs in Washington District of Criminals took over 100% of food production, we’d all starve.
bb and people like him probably grasp that our monopoly, tax-funded school system is a very poor system for actually producing educated young adults.
Somehow, everyone seems to go COMPLETE RETARD when it comes to all things military. A top-down, centrally-planned monopoly system is the apotheosis of what makes for complete and utter waste, graft, corruption and uselessness.
But somehow the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps somehow make up down, left right, and inside outside.
People are largely idiots. I think I have a pencil on my desk with a higher IQ than most people.
GilbertS
Some of us are smart enough to understand what the military really is without getting into it, participating in its sophomoric rituals, frat-boy hazing and such while helping murder a bunch of people who couldn’t find our home towns on a MAP.
I have a blood relative who graduated 3rd in his class at West Point and went into Vietnam in the USMC, rising to Colonel (not Sanders, I believe.)
He’s a True Believer. He’s obviously a near-brilliant guy. He’s also a complete fool, just like all the uncountable bright people who thought (or think) communism, national socialism or Fabian socialism is The Way To Go.
“There are two kinds of parents: Those who will, as lemming-minded herd animals of the tribe, offer up their children for ritual human sacrifice to the false gods they and their neighbors worship, and those who would cut the heart out of anyone who attempted to harm their offspring, no matter who the hell they are, what office they occupy or what costume they wear.”
The women of my family would CUT THE HEART OUT of anyone who would try to harm our children. My sister raised her boys to be draft-avoiders. Do ANYTHING you can to avoid the military, we told them.
I lost a large number of male classmates to the war in ‘Nam, and many of the guys I dated in my youth were seriously and permanently damaged, often mentally, by their time in combat there. Meanwhile, the more privileged young men I knew either scored student deferments or entered the National Guard, while other guys made marriages of convenience and quickly got their mates pregnant so they’d be stationed in Germany, or the Phillipines, or somewhere else where they were safe from combat.
I have complete faith in the loyalty of American youth to their true country- that is to the families and friends that they love and the communities they grew up in. We have seen how they respond on the rare occasions in which this country has been confronted with a real threat. When our diplomatic people were seized as hostages in Iran in the 70s, there was not a man OR woman, no matter how much a hippie or “peace-nik” he or she was, who wasn’t ready to go over there and bomb the shit out of that country. I have no doubt that were we seriously threatened, millions of young people would eagerly step to the plate.
But the time when people will passively acquiesce to being sacrificed for the cause of oligarchs and brutal puppet governments, just because they’re told to, is over.
I might also add that if you look at the long run of history, no war ever mattered.
Had Lincoln lost his war, WW1 would have ended in stalemate so no WW2, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot or nuclear-annihilation doom under which we all now live.
But to those who died, and never came home to father children, their line was lost.
Vietnam? Hell, Hanoi has a STOCK EXCHANGE!
Who won WW2? STALIN! He was HANDED the 100,000,000 unlucky souls living in Eastern Europe by that demonic asshole FDR!
Stalin was, when FDR joked and back-slapped him, the greatest mass-murdering politician of all time, with a body count that at least DOUBLED the “great Satan” Hitler.
Who is absolutely STUPID enough to think that killing and dying for the likes of FDR (and his sociopathic buddies in power today) is a good idea?
No.
Life is about continuity. Someone wants to go murder innocent people doing nothing but defending their homes in some far-flung place, I won’t try to stop them. People have been doing such evil since the dawn of Man.
But know that my line will be marrying the girls you left behind and siring kids with them while you heroically waste your life conquering a hill no one will remember in three weeks, much less 30 years.
They already steal several months of my labor every year – they call it income tax. They do it at the point of a gun. They force me to pay for land I already own. They force me to pay for the use of roads via gas tax, they force me to pay via sales tax, payroll tax, etc.. The Constitution never intended these taxes, but there they are.
I am already a slave. To find out, just try not paying and see what happens.
If it is good enough for me and thee, why not for the 50% of the young that are unemployed who are contributing nothing? And I am not talking about military service here, just national service. It just might help put a little hair on their chests, and take the iphones out of their hands.
If no one if forced to serve and the volunteerism of the delusional and ignorant is severely curtailed by education resulting in a severe drop in military enrollment ,who will there be to survive the Empire’s perpetual wars left to mark ritual and tradition?
Llpoh, if a man in a costume walks up to me and slaps me across the face, should I turn and slap another? My wife, or my neighbor? Should I kick my dog?
I’ve paid decades of transfer-taxes for Social Security and Medicare; as you well know, as I paid the money it was immediately spent on the tax recipients (and the legions of drones who administer them.)
So by your logic, if Soc Sec or Medicare get on shaky ground in coming years, I should join those calling for a Bigger Gun to rob my sons even MORE?
C’mon. I don’t buy it.
Not to worry.
1. There’s no money left to institute a Big War.
2. There’s no borrowing ability left to do it either.
3. The entire game is to use up the inventory of weapons on destroying people and places that can be plausibly sold to a perpetual-child citizenry so the weapons makers make their quarterly numbers. If blowing up those places and people hurts some US-centric energy competitors, more’s the better. They don’t need or want conscripts, they have all the volunteer button-pushers they need.
In a few years when the credit bubble has fully deflated and misery is unmeasurably higher than now, I have little doubt that there will be a military coup in the USA.
Argentina is the model.
1. A wealthy country is politically mismanaged into the ground.
2. The military takes over because the moron citizenry thinks that Admirals and Generals are The Men on the White Horses (instead of in actuality, the biggest crony-bureaucrats in the nation.)
3. A whole lot of people who object (and plenty of bystanders) are murdered by the military and its supporters/hangers-on.
4. Eventually a civilian government is installed, but it suffers from the same moron-citizenry problem so it looks like today’s circle-the-drain Argentina.
Every empire ends. The USA’s is lasting a lot less time than its predecessors; it must be due to our iGadgets.
America is neo-Sparta. Lest anyone think “300,” I suggest reading up on just what Spartan citizens were encouraged to do. I don’t think I’d want to have lived there.
Western Civ is in terminal decline because the people who live in Western countries have lost all connection to morality.
It doesn’t matter who “we” attack and murder. It doesn’t matter who “we” elect to office. All that matters is that our neighbors couldn’t tell right from wrong if the answer to them was life and death…and come to think of it, it just may be.
I know, I know.
People who have “served” think people like me are chicken-shits who should be kicked out or hung.
Those who espouse such views are EXACTLY THE SAME as those who hung Sophie Scholl by her neck. The Nazi label is overused, but I think it is properly applied in this case.
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Such people are the antithesis of Americans. That the professional military is full of such people is something I take for granted.
Billy, I totally concur.
We all get to go our separate ways, and only join groups (and causes, etc.) we specifically sign up for.
This is what Mises envisioned.
Of course, what this produces is the absence of political systems, what the ignorant call anarchy (but mean “chaos,”) when in fact it is the only peaceable, productive system imaginable.
Given mankind’s stupidity, it will never be allowed. The slaves love their chains far too much.
DC – there is a massive issue re unproductive young people. The issue of slave labor is already settled law – any pretence otherwise is bullshit. Taxpayers are slaves. Income tax was never intended nor envisioned, yet there it is. Income tax became law via the 16th Amendment in 1913. The original intent of the Constitution is altered all the time. Today they just do not bother with amendments.
So, in my opinion, young folks can work, go to school, or find themselves in national service. Allowing huge percentages of the young to become accustomed to doing nothing is outrageous. And is causing havoc.
I would happily consider any options to get these millions of young off their asses.
And I also support work for welfare. A great many here have voiced the same. How is national service any different for those who are just laying about sponging on the world? It is just work for welfare by another name.
Llpoh – Is the term indentured servant in your vocabulary? From the standpoint of our owners it is far superior to slavery. You are responsible for the care and feeding of slaves whereas indentured servants are responsible for everything except fulfilling their service contract. Originally the Statute of Limitations on Indentured Servants was seven years. Now student loans can follow you to the grave.
Roy – are you seriously saying student loans – which are entered into voluntarily – equals indentured servitude?
Paying of taxes – yes I agree that is permanent indentured servitude. But purchases made/debts incurred are not indentured servitude. Those are just bad decisions. They are enticed into those decisions, sure. Sheep have always been easy to entice. No surprise there.
DC,
“Such people are the antithesis of Americans. That the professional military is full of such people is something I take for granted.”
Thanks. A bunch. In case you were wondering, I’m making a wry face…
And didja have to play The Nazi Card? You’re smart enough to know what Reductio ad Hitlerum is… I thought you’d not play that…
Indentured Servitude was a voluntary contract entered into by youths to gain access to a better life. Same as student debt is acquired by contract to obtain an education which students are conned into believing will lead to a better future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant
Billy, if I implied that you were automatically among those (military people) who think civilians are lesser people and those who oppose the military are subhuman, I didn’t mean to do so.
I think I’m referring to my relative. The man could brook no discussion of the folly of military adventurism. And I have seen some ex-.mil clowns suggest that anyone who thinks or writes ill of soldiering, and who hasn’t “served,” should have an open season on them declared.
The White Rose engaged in non-violent resistance to the Nazis, just as I engage in non-violent opposition to essentially EVERYTHING done by the political system (which monopolizes by threats just about every essential thing there is, now.)
Do I worry about ending up on a “list?” Of course….I am familiar with the reflexive beliefs of authoritarians. I would write an entire column for TBP about all this, but I’m already more outspoken than prudence demands.
An American can scream with a bullhorn at the top of a mountain calling for the slaughter of a million people 8000 miles away, but Heaven help the American who notes just how naked is the military emperor.
Europe already criminalizes some kinds of speech. America is one tiny step away from doing so.
Llpoh,
Instead of ramping UP the slavery/coercion component, I’d rather support reducing it. The millions of young adults (and proto-adults) with nothing productive to do surely has many causes, but I trace each and every thread back to the state, its Kafkaesque labyrinth of regulations and continuous warping of all things economic.
Sure, it’s Utopian, but let’s at least consider dropping all the stupid government tricks and see how young people respond before we simply begin treating them like property. And as for the taxes, confiscations and innumerable violations of the supposed Law of the Land, well, we can both cry us a river. A moral citizenry needs no shepherd, and an immoral citizenry can’t benefit from one.
Let’s face it. College wouldn’t be the con game it is without:
1. Credit availability from the Feds.
2. A stupid government-pushed narrative that “everyone” should go to college.
3. A media monoculture (itself a product of regulation) that knows only one note (“go to college or starve the rest of your life.”)
None of it is real, but while I can see it for what it is, do I really expect a 17 year old to grasp the con game?
Do you expect them to, when their brain-dead parents can’t?
No, the whole college game is a unified con job played on people too young to understand it by those who are old enough to know better.
To me, it’s tantamount to a 40 year old man talking a 14 year old girl into sex. The disparity in intellectual development and self-control is too large to let that be “buyer beware.”
I support work for welfare. When you work for welfare, it is no longer “welfare”. It is not involuntary servitude- you are free to refuse it, along with the benefits.
Conscription into national “service” is another matter. It is involuntary servitude and its message is that the government owns you. Service without choice is slavery, pure and simple.