China Sea Blues: A Thing Not to Do

It appears that Washington, ever a seething cauldron of bright ideas, is looking for a shooting war with China, or perhaps trying to make the Chinese kowtow and back down, the pretext being some rocks in the Pacific in which the United States cannot possibly have a vital national interest. Or, really, any interest. And if the Chinese do not back down?

Years back I went aboard the USS Vincennes, CG-49,  a Tico class Aegis boat, then the leading edge of naval technology. It was a magnificent ship, fast, powered by a pair of airliner turbines, and carrying the SPY-1 phased-array radar, very high-tech for its time. The CIC was dark and air-conditioned, glowing with huge screens—impressive for then—displaying all manner of information on targets in the air. Below were Standard missiles, then on a sort of chain drive but in later ships using the Vertical Launch System. It was, as they say in Laredo, Muy Star Wars. (The Vincennes was the ship that later shot down the Iranian airliner.)

Vincennes

The Vincennes. The boxy thing up front is the radar. It is not hardened.

Being something of a technophile, I took all of this in with admiration, but I thought—what if it gets hit? As a kid in my preteens I had read about the battleships of WWII, the Carolinas but in particular the Iowa class, fast, brutal ships with sixteen-inch belt armor and turrets that an asteroid would bounce off of. The assumption was that ships were going to get hit. They were built to survive and continue fighting.

By contrast, the Vincennes was thin-skinned, hulled with aluminum instead of steel, and the radar, crucial to combat, looked perilously fragile. A single hit with anything serious, or perhaps even a cal .50, but certainly by anything resembling a GAU-8, and she would be hors de combat until refitted.

One hit.

Iowa

The Iowa, BB-61. I went aboard her at Norfolk at the Navy’s invitation. It altered my appreciation of guns. I came away thinking that if you can’t crawl into it, it isn’t really a gun. And solid: There is a reason why no battleship was sunk after Pearl Harbor.

I also knew well that the Navy played Red Team-Blue Team war games in which our own submarines—then chiefly 688s—tried to “sink” the surface fleet. The idea was that if the sub could get into firing position, it would send up a green flare. The subs were then running if memory serves the Mk 48 ADCAP torpedo, a wicked wire-guided thing with a long range. Sailors told me that invariably the subs “sank” the surface force.

When I mentioned this at CHINFO, the Navy’s PR operation in the Pentagon, flacks told me that the potential bad guys only had piddling diesel-electric subs, far inferior to our nukey boats, and couldn’t get near the fleet in open seas. Yes, no, maybe, and then. It sounded like happy talk to me. In WWII, diesel-electrics certainly got in range of surface ships, perhaps the most famous example being when Archer Fish sank Shinano.

I do not know a great deal about the Chinese Navy, having been out of that loop for years. I do know that the Chinese are  smart, and that they have optimized their forces specifically to take out carrier battle groups near their territory. They do not try to match the US ship-for-ship in the kind of war America wants to fight. They would lose fast, and they know it. The key is to swarm the fleet with cruise missiles arriving all at once, accompanied perhaps by large numbers of aircraft. Would this work? I don’t know, but that is certainly the way I would bet.

DF-21D

DF-21D anti-ship (read: anti-carrier) missile.  This is not the place for detail, but China has anti-ship ballistic missiles designed to kill carriers, and is working on others, hypersonic glide vehicles, that are not real interceptible. I do not know how well they work. If I were  a carrier, I would make a point of not finding out.

The Navy has not been in a war for seventy years. It has sat off various shores and launched aircraft, but the fleet has not been engaged. Over decades of inaction, complacency sets in. Unfortunately, wars regularly turn out to be otherwise than expected. Further, the American military’s standard approach to a war is to underestimate the enemy (there is probably a manual on this).

Yet further, great emotional and financial capital resides in a carrier-battle group, one of the most impressive achievements of the human race. (I mean this: the technology, organization, and competence involved in, say, night flight ops are…”astonishing” is too feeble a word.)

This assures reluctance to question the fleet’s effectiveness in the face of changing conditions. Such as high-Mach, stealthed, maneuvering, sea-skimming  cruise missiles. Or terminally guided anti-ship ballistic missiles. America is accustomed to fighting enemies who can’t fight back. This may not include the Chínese.

There is also the fact that the American military simply doesn’t matter, which reduces concern with whether it can fight and who it can fight. It doesn’t defend the US, since there is nothing to defend it against. (What country has the remotest possibility of invading America?) So the military is used for what are essentially hobbyist wars, keeping Israel happy,  providing markets for the arms companies, and for social engineering: we have girl crews who would be a disaster at damage control, but we assume that there will never be any damage to control.

Uh…yeah. The evidence is that these ships are fragile:

 ForrestalFireThe carrier Forrestal, 1967. A single Zuni missile was fired accidentally. A huge fire ensued, bombs cooked off, 134 men were killed, and the ship was devastated, out of service for a very long time. One five-inch missile. Something to think about.

Starke

USS Stark, 1987. Hit by two Exocet missiles fired by an Iraqi Mirage.

What would happen if in a shooting war the Chinese crippled the American fleet? Washington is rampant with large egos, especially that of John McCain, the senator from PTSD. If it were discovered that China could disable the Navy, many other countries might conclude that they could do it too. They most certainly would think of this. Washington could not accept the discovery: Fear of the carriers is a large element in Washington’s intimidation of the world.  To save face, the US would be tempted to go nuclear, or seriously bomb China proper, with unforeseeable results.

The Air Force and Navy could hurt China badly by conventional means, yes, for example by cutting off oil from the Mideast, or destroying the Three Gorges dam.  For a variety of reasons this would be playing with fire. The economic results of any of these bright ideas would be godawful.

 

Cole

USS Cole, 2000. Blown up by suicide guys in a small boat.

Washington seems not to realize that it wields far less military power than it thinks it does, and that the power it does wield is ever less useful than before. As a land power, it is very weak, being unable to defeat Russia, China, or peasants armed with rifles and RPGs. Air power has regularly proved indecisive.

If Washington somehow won a naval war with China, so what? It would provide the satisfactions of vanity, but China’s danger to the US imperium lies in increasing economic power and commercial expansion through Asia, where it holds the high cards: it is there, Washington isn’t. Grrr-bowwow-woofery in the far Pacific, even if successful, is not going to stop China’s commercial expansion, and a defeat would end the credibility of the Navy forever.

As I say, Washington is full of bright ideas.

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8 Comments
dc.sunsets
dc.sunsets
October 31, 2015 12:44 pm

The very existence of nuclear weapons guarantees that, sooner or later, they will be used again.

This is the reason I chuckle any time some report surfaces full of anxiety about the human population of the world rising, rising, rising….

Ain’t gonna happen. Long before the number of humans on the planet hits 10 or 15 billion, the megalomaniacs who govern every large nation-state will miscalculate and, in a spasm of “we didn’t see this coming,” the ICBMs and sub-launched nukes will launch.

I am quite convinced that within 50 to 100 years the population of the Earth will experience a huge decline. The aftermath should be worse, as the man (and brain) power to maintain all the fission plants, chemical plants, etc. dotting our First World will be gone, and large stretches of currently nice real estate will become too toxic for humans to inhabit for decades, possibly centuries.

The final thoughts of those about to be snuffed by the terminal stupidity of humans in large numbers should be, “we had a nice run.”

Anonymous
Anonymous
October 31, 2015 12:47 pm

Nuclear war won’t be anywhere near as bad as some people think.

That’s not saying it will not be worse than we have seen, but it will be limited and will not be an end of the world event.

But there are other things coming in our near future that will be.

Stucky
Stucky
October 31, 2015 2:01 pm

“Nuclear war won’t be anywhere near as bad as some people think.” ——– Anonymous

Probably no worse than a severe sunburn.

Your fucking moran-ishness, it burns. Praise Jeebus!!

AnthonyH
AnthonyH
October 31, 2015 2:49 pm

“It appears that Washington… is looking for a shooting war with China…the Chinese are smart…”
Ah, you haven’t considered several essential factors; when you do, you’ll have to go back to your drawing board.
One very major factor is that Red China owns some $1.5 to $2.0 trillion in US Treasury securities. (http://redressone.wordpress.com/ana-pt-ii/) If China does not follow the script laid down by its (and America’s) Judeo-Bolshevik masters, one click of a computer and those securities vanish. Result? A Chinese economy in chaos; this, by the way would paralyze the Chinese military.
Another major factor: it appears those Judeo-Bolsheviks plan to evacuate America, when they pull the plug, and resettle in China until the American slaughter is completed.
This opinion materialized after I examined a Financial Report of the US Government. I found, for example, that government accountants made 75-year projections as if the government would not pay interest on its debt instruments during that time.
And then there were street gangs and drug cartels, the government’s – and China’s – role in arming, protecting and forming alliances with such gangs and cartels… and a dozen or so other items. They all point to a conclusion that a vast operation is being perpetrated… I began this Part 2 (of my examination) with the question, ‘What financial shock do Judeo-Bolsheviks plan?’ (Part one (https://redressone.wordpress.com/cct/) and Part two (https://redressone.wordpress.com/cct2/)) Do they plan to inflate the dollar to zero… push stocks to a PE ratio 300, then slam them to a ratio of single digits or even minus numbers… repudiate the federal debt… replace Federal Reserve bank notes with Treasury bank notes…?’ And, how do China’s ghost cities fit into this unprecedented operation?
Consider all these government-provided facts and you see that a war with China makes no sense. Remember, it takes only a computer entry to turn China’s economy into a chaotic pile of rubble.

AnthonyH
AnthonyH
October 31, 2015 3:00 pm

“we had a nice run”; so said, “dc.sunsets”.
Is that all we have to look forward to?
Is it possible to take matters into our hands and turn the world right side up?
Of course it is possible. All that is necessary is to learn lessons of American Founders, and the rights and powers won by the Revolution – none of which current generations have a clue (http://redressone.wordpress.com/).
Really, isn’t it better to make useless and criminal classes accountable for the lives they have ruined or destroyed, rather than meekly submit to their genocides and general plunders?

Sensetti
Sensetti
October 31, 2015 4:46 pm

I always look for the good in a less than optimal outcome. There will be a few positive aspects that come out of a foreign army invading the U.S. mainland. Number one, no way in hell they will approach by a southern route, way to many rednecks with long guns. The time it would take to approach from a northern route would be prohibitive and the battle would end up fought on Canadian soil. So that leaves an East or West coast landing most probable. An invasion of either coast would result in the demise of millions of Liberals. The aerial bombardment to soften up the beach head would be very productive, don’t forget the dumb bastard Democrats don’t believe in owning guns. I’m sure that’s a main wartime doctrine of our foreign adversaries, attack where Democrats concentrate. Maybe those Dimcrats will meet the invading force with their Gun Free Zone” signs. LMAO, Bring it on!! Oh to dream?

Brian
Brian
October 31, 2015 6:46 pm

Most of the superstructures of the small ships are made of aluminum. The hulls are steel…not very thick but they are indeed steel.

The cruiser I was on (California class, precursor to the Virginia’s and Tico’s) had a mostly aluminum super structure that was rumored to be designed to tear off if the ship took more than a 45+ degree roll.
We could have still drove the ship had that happened. There were plenty of manual controls below the main decks then…don’t know if they still build in those kinds of redundancies now with all the efforts to reduce costs.

When they were cutting her up I was aghast at how thin the hull steel was 1/4 – 3/8 inch steel, much of which was probably paint (that shit was thick! once for dust twice for rust was the motto!).

The short of it is….one mark 48 will destroy anything we have afloat today. Even if something were to survive, the keel would be broken and or the drive train would be destroyed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0nNUqh43VI

gilberts
gilberts
November 1, 2015 11:33 pm

Meh. We won’t fight China. We’ll go right up to the line and if we cross it, 30 seconds before the first shot is fired all of the US will be turned off. Their hackers already own our power grid, internet, stock market, comms, ATC, etc. Remember the “Fire Sale” from DIe Hard? “It’s all gotta go!” The Chinese will easily hamstring us without having to fire a shot. Even if we do blow up some stuff overseas, what will it matter? The team will come home to find their stadium torched.