Stucky Intervention #1: HF

Sorry, HSF, but we landed on the Moon several times. We lost 3 astronauts in the process in a test of the Apollo capsule These were brave Men we should honor.

The real question is, why did we never return?

I’ve seen various theories including some conversations a Ham overheard on a “private” frequency with the astronauts saying things like “Santa Claus is here tonight” Santa Claus being a codeword for UFO’s.

These same people say the gist of why we never went back is the aliens warned us away. Supposedly there are giant mining machines, domes, etc. on the dark side, some of it ruin.

Check out this link and see what you think: http://ufos.about.com/od/nasaufos/p/ufosmoon3.htm

Some think the Moon is in the wrong place in orbit around the Earth and is the wrong size, unlike any other Moons in the solar system.

Keenan – I could count every star and stripe on old glory (not)…WTF.

@Bea…yes, I actually felt that you were responding..like Houston was saying: “You’re all clear Apollo..we got you LEM”…I know, for me, my friend, that I believe what I believe, and until I see something that changes my mind, I won’t be changing my mind anytime soon because I have not seen a reason to do so, nor do I really give a fat rat’s ass…Call me an old dog, no matter. I get your point, and I don’t dismiss it easily at all..I hope that I’ll find a litmus test for truth, but my hopes are being charged NIRP at this point.

“A man hears what he wants to hear and he disregards the rest” – Simon & Garfunkel

I believe what I believe but I wasn’t there to offer empirical proof so all of this, to me, is moot.

When I was 22-23, my little courier business put me at the wrap up of meetings at the eastern airlines boardroom, when they were trying to save the airline from the mechanics union. The chairman, Frank Borman, was the commander of the first mission to the moon (Apollo 8). Over the months of picking up stuff at eastern, I got occasional opportunities to ask him about going to the moon. He was physically wiped out from the gravity of eastern’s plight, and generally seemed to like the distraction. Some things I asked, moment of fear? When they lit off the Saturn V. Best moment? Splashdown. Coolest part? Earthrise. Interesting guy, very straightforward. Very bright. Hard to believe he would lie or be fooled.

@Bea…you’re a good egg, Noonan….:~)

Correction- John Poindexters son was a Space Shuttle astronaut not moon mission. He died in a jet ski accident.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-astronaut-poindexter-idUSBRE8610W220120703

My father worked at Kennedy Space Center during the Apollo program. My best friend’s dad ran the astronaut’s clean room. My other friend’s dad’s were the engineers and scientists. Most were WWII and Korean War vets. The salt of the earth, real Americans. I stood on the banks of the Indian River and watched Apollo 11 launch. Yeah, sure, they all lied. Give me a fucking break.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

this guy probably won’t change anyone’s mind, but he makes good points and is pretty damn funny as well. WOrth a read no matter what you believe.

You could see this HSF/Stucky confrontation coming a long way off:

Wasn’t me that downed you and this ain’t over til it’s over.

The idea that maybe they had to fake a few photos but the astronauts really went is comical. The mindset of cops and politicians. The end justifies the lies. Why would NASA not just admit the pics are studio shots?

And to the LASER reflector people- So you believe that in 1969 we had the technology to send men to the moon and back but we didn’t have the technology to use a unmanned lunar orbiter to drop a reflector as it flew over?

Earthrise? From the surface of the moon the view of spinning earth stays the same and never rises or sets. Plus I would think the earth would be difficult to see with the sun pretty much directly behind it even if the claimed view is from the lunar orbiter. Earthrise seems like a common screen memory given to all the astronauts. They all mention it in interviews.

Sorry, nobody changed my mind.

This has been fun. Let’s do BHO’s birth certificate tomorrow. I think it is totally legit. I mean after all, there would have been too many people involved to keep it quiet. Besides some truly patriotic Americans believe it is real and the mainstream media ridicules anyone who doesn’t accept it as real. Maybe it was a bad copy and they needed to photoshop a few lines but that can’t mean the whole thing is fake could it?

Stucky,

I am with you on this one; not that my opinion matters much. There is a fundamental misunderstanding of all things scientific in this country and a mistrust of that which cannot be easily understood. Conspiracy theories are the easy way out; the modern equivilent of “God did it because I said so”… The NASA of the 1960s was not the same as the NASA of today. No PC bullshit and calculations done the hard way, by hand, with slide rules. How many today even have clue what a slide rule is, let alone what the hell to do with it… Engineers engineered, and the emphasis was on results. Maybe it would have been possible to work some kind of scam or conspiracy within the country, but how could one possibly keep such a secret from the Soviets, who would have jumped on any opportunity to discredit the USA? Occam’s Razor practically begs the answer, that yes, we did really go to the Moon multiple times and that once, we really has a space program.

Everyone has GPS location in their phones. There are 419 geosynchronous satellites currently in operation. The array of hardware in near-Earth orbit is extensive and correlates to the basic history of space exploration that has been given to us. The other unmanned missions to Mars and beyond the solar system, the international space station, Hubble, etc. are all of a piece with our missions to the moon. We made atomic bombs 72 years ago. The North Koreans are only 70 years behind us on that – with the Iranians even further behind. Even the Chinese can launch rockets these days; it makes sense that we could have and would have done something as useless and pointless as a moon landing 47 years ago. If we also faked some photos for PR reasons, that also sounds like something we’d do. And then there’s Tang (the drink mix) – conclusive proof.

Stucky, only one of those men was a gay science fiction writer, the other guys were a well known filmmaker and the head of NASA. In 1964. Probably just chatting up a common interest in French cuisine or Third Reich swizzle sticks.

Here’s the thing.

I wrote that essay on comedy for you. You are the guy who has shown interest in that part of my story more than a few times so I wanted to help flesh it out for you. I have explained more than once how jokes are constructed, the various parts of a joke and how to make them effective by using particular tricks. A call back, for instance, is a line that gets a reaction from the audience early on and is used repeatedly, often as a non sequitur in a later joke. Say you have a rabbit named Fred who smokes cigarettes as one of your first jokes. Whenever attention flags, or you find a place for an impression, you bring back Fred the cigarette smoking rabbit- hell, you can just pantomime smoking, then twitch your nose like a rabbit and the audience will respond with laughter BECAUSE THEY’VE ALREADY LAUGHED AT IT BEFORE. It’s conditioned, it works, so you use it to your advantage.

I then demonstrate it for you and you not only react EXACTLY the way I expect you to, you do TBP version of a standing O by creating an entire thread about the cigarette smoking rabbit named Fred.

Here’s the other thing. I have no idea why the things I believe should be of any concern to anyone other than my loved ones. My beliefs are personal, they come from experience, study, disposition, history, hell there’s probably a genetic component in there as well, but they’re mine. I hold them because they satisfy my view of the world and fit in with the narrative as I have come to know it. Clearly there are going to be very few people who haven’t got a very similar background who are going to share all of them- ask my wife, she doesn’t agree with everything I think and she loves me more than anyone else. I don’t have a cult, a church, a political party or even a club. I don’t seek converts or followers, don’t want adherents or acolytes. I have one purpose in writing the things I do and that is to give as honest account of a life in this part of the world at this time of history to demonstrate how at least one person lives. That’s it. I admit that I enjoy the process- words are beautiful to me if you can arrange them in a certain way and I have been moved by writers my entire life to see into other lives that I haven’t lived, can never experience, will never know. I am grateful that Admin has been gracious enough to not only post my reflections, but overlook my past and put up with my own brand of shit stirring, albeit subtle.

We never went to the moon.

@Identured
— “Damn, the greatest database of human knowledge that has ever existed is right at your fingertips…”

The greatest database of human propaganda and vested interests that has ever existed is ALSO right at your fingertips…

— “…the dumb bitch was complaining that she hadn’t had a hot meal in days while she was standing right next to her gas grill.”

Her gas tank was just a prop.

I worked in DC for a couple of years in the late 60s and got a brief look into the level of corruption and subterfuge. One day I had lunch with a friend and a friend of his who worked for a tech company that did business with the military. The friend described the protocol involved. Once you found out who could help your company get a contract it was necessary to start the process with an expensive dinner and an even more expensive high class hooker. That would get your foot in the door.
Back then I never would have questioned the space program. I watched the grainy video of an astronaut taking “a small step for a man…” I knew a guy who worked at NASA in Florida and he was a bright engineer who was a true believer.
Razzle makes the point above that the internet is a vast database both of knowledge and of propaganda. I went on the net to try to find out why the Russians never sent people to the moon. I found a site which explained that we had simply surpassed them with our Saturn rockets which could handle the heavy lifting of getting all that stuff to the moon. Their rockets were supposedly inferior and prone to failure. Now our flying bricks are retired and Russia does the heavy lifting to the !SS. So it goes.
In a sense, all the questions we raise about our world are like looking for pieces of a giant picture puzzle. Humans are even more curious than cats. Anyone who is not brain dead or totally locked into their belief system enjoys finding a new piece of the puzzle. Someone asks why the Russians did not expose the moon landings as a hoax if they knew. That could be as simple as wanting to keep their own funding. Imagine the head of the Soviet space program going to his boss and saying “The Americans faked it so we really don’t need to waste any more rubles trying to catch up. Lets give the money to someone else.”