My favorite retort from the great uneducated whenever you are discussing the forefathers or the Constitution is “Well, Jefferson owned slaves.” How do you refute that argument?
Question of the Day, Mar 21
My favorite retort from the great uneducated whenever you are discussing the forefathers or the Constitution is “Well, Jefferson owned slaves.” How do you refute that argument?
It was easier for him to get dates.
“Yeah, he did. Maybe he had some idea of what happens when niggers are allowed to run around loose.”
My answer is So What? He was British and inherited British values.
I have a friend in Ireland who reminds me all the time that at the time of this country’s founding, there were more Irish slaves here than African slaves. I will admit that I was ignorant that “Indentured Servants” did not WANT to come here from Ireland… I assumed they indentured themselves for the trip over.
After the article posted here a few weeks ago, I educated myself a bit.
A proper retort;
—- Even Jesus did NOT condemn slavery
—- Neither did the Apostle Paul ….. in fact, he told slaves to LOVE their slavery
In other words ….people are a product of their times.
It’s as simple as that, imho. Case closed.
The practice of slavery was global and not just an American institution. In fact slavery has been practiced throughout the world for thousands of years prior to America and it was not confined to only blacks.
I find it amusing that millions of people will travel to Egypt to see one of the greatest accomplishments of slavery, the great pyramids, and yet condemn the practice as horrific. Shouldn’t the pyramids be destroyed since they are a symbol of slave labor?
I would tell the person (most likely a leftist) that this was the prevalent culture of the time. That is no justification, but it means that we must look history with unvarnished lenses.
Looking at the events of generations past with 21st Century values will not help us understand exactly what was happening then. That slaves – blacks and whites – existed is undeniable, as was the fact that they suffered.
I would then proceed to ask the said person what he/she, as a leftist, thought of Abraham Lincoln. The said person would most likely state Lincoln freed the slaves. I would then educate said person on Lincoln’s racist views, wishes to deport blacks to Africa, and tolerance of Union troops slaughtering innocent southern civilians (people who did not own slaves).
If said person recoiled, I would then remind him/her that this is what history really looks like, not what we want it to be.
Well this is revisionist history. At the time it was common to own slaves. You can’t judge a person who lived 250 years ago, with today’s standards.
Besides the jungle bunnies were savages, living in horrible conditions in Africa. Our current stock of Neegrows would be living in the jungles.
He also had children, but I don’t believe he advocated for the emancipation suffrage of toddlers.
He also used the word “men” not women, but that is a whole ‘nother can of worms.
The average person debating Jeffersonian political philosophy is akin to a fourth grade math student tackling Pythagoras or Gauss.
Liberal douchebags have no concept of CONTEXT when viewing history because they are essentially brain dead zombie products of public school indoctrination centers.
FWIW,
The Islamic nations still widely practice slavery to this day -complete with slave markets and such though the media ignores them- but those on the left that seem so horrified by Jefferson or other historical figures having had slaves seem more than willing to embrace Islam and overlook the slavery it practices (and Mohammad himself even gave specific laws for owning slaves and how to treat them, particularly the sex slaves that Islam is obviously so fond of).
“How do you refute that argument?”
You can’t refute it. He owned slaves. If you still call those early statesmen “The Founding Fathers”, you aren’t quite ready to debate, even with dimbulb Bern-feelers. No offense intended, Mike. I’ve wasted time debating with those Birkenstock wearing airheads. It’s fuckin demoralizin, I know.
I’ve read that slavery, at the one time was considered the humane thing to do. When there was a battle between tribes all survivors were killed including the elderly, women and children.
Slavery evolved from a humane treatment of survivors into a business. The history of slavery included many cultures, nationality’s and religion’s. From ancient times to the present day.
Christians sold Muslims, Muslims sold Christians, blacks sold blacks, whites sold whites and blacks, etc.
But we are taught in school that only whites sold blacks. Just not true.
i don’t retort, i walk away.
the person who displays that level of intellectual thought has an agenda to push and their capacity to think is not worth my time because it won’t be changed and they have nothing to offer me in return for trying.
Ed: You don’t your ass from a hole in the ground. Go back and argue with the guys in the dorm.
Why refute the truth? Instead I like to point out how we’re all slaves now and have been since 1913. Rarely happens though because there are usually ample signs of the liberal mental disorder within which steer me away from them before they can strike.
By the Left’s own definition, the slaves do the work and the masters reap. So what class of Americans works today as slaves to support what class that reaps the harvest in the form of welfare and sub-sub-prime loans?
I don’t spend a whole lot of time debating anything that happened 250 years ago
This is an easy one.
Just because the man did’t see the contradiction between his own words and his life (and times he lived in) does not make his words any less true. None of the founders were perfect – it does not make what they had to say regarding human liberty false. it simply makes them flawed.
Hell, even Marx was right about a few things and he has contributed more to human suffering than anyone i can think of in the last 200 to 300 years.
Yes, Francis Marion — a great man with flaws. One who didn’t see that his ideals should also apply to his slaves.
Just as many of the descendants of those slaves don’t see that they should apply the ideals of western civilization to their own lives.
“Ed: You don’t your ass from a hole in the ground.”
Ahaha. Dutchman, employ a little proofreading when you’re trying to accuse someone else of being stupid. Leaving out words doesn’t help your case, it just makes you look like you’re the one who doesn’t know his asshole from a post hole.
“Founding Fathers” is a real bullshit term, coined by propagandists. Political predecessors aren’t our “fathers” by any stretch of the imagination. Terms like that don’t work in a discussion. Terms like that are used by politicians and lawyers.
So what?
Mr. Jefferson called out his own hypocrisy in “Notes on the State of Virginia”:
“Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.”
I only hope he was not being disingenuous when he wrote that. He was one of them deists as I recall.
Just as in our own contemporary lives we find ourselves in a fallen world with many injustices that aren’t so easy to escape from.
If / when God’s justice is visited on this world in full, there is going to be a *lot* more than slavery on the rap sheet.
Some of my ancestors I know per genealogical research owned slaves. Others came to America only at the turn of the last century. Can I get by with only hating a pro-ration part of myself accordingly?
Some day, I pray, the Lord will return to judge mankind and establish His Kingdom forever. In the meantime, we can only hope to be led in this world by mere mortals who will always have feet of clay.
Administrator says: Liberal douchebags have no concept of CONTEXT when viewing history
El Doggy said that women complain about his view, they say, we are not in the times of our grandmothers. ‘They ought to consider that they did not grow up in the times of their grandmother and can’t possibly know what those times were like.’ he said.
I’m afraid that I understand completely. Digging up the past to justify a current attitude is dumb. If some fucking Pocho someday claimed victim-hood based on the abuse I suffered here on TBP, I’d have to come back from the grave to kick his ass here. I really hate folks who take credit for other’s suffering or other’s achievements.
Mr EC
please go back to elections and professional wrestling
and see my comment to you/thanks
Suzanna, you must never call me Mr. here. I tried to look for the comment but have no idea where to look. Now I will wonder what you said.
OK, found it. That would be a great subject to cover here since there are more folks out there with the same condition. Yes, I’ve seen TV ads looking for victims of that drug.
It hasn’t reached epidemic proportions in Mexico but it certainly has become a big problem that wasn’t anywhere near that scale before NAFTA and the invasion of Mexico with American eateries. They have all the fast food joints we have here and some American big box stores.
They took American goods to heart, how can American foods be bad? They’re American. Poor idiots became the fattest country in the world, practically. Since Mexicans are naturally happy and they only see school to the sixth grade, all they needed was to be fat also.
And folks looking for cures in fountain waters, energy voodoo and homeopathic medicine – actually old Indian ‘remedios’ remedies such as cactus.