Last week America was rocked by the cold-blooded murder of 49 people at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Unlike the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Orlando shooter appears to be a lone gunman who, while claiming allegiance to ISIS, was not actually working with a terrorist group. About the only thing Orlando has in common with 9/11 is the way power-hungry politicians and federal officials wasted no time using it to justify expanding government and restricting liberty.
Immediately following the shooting, we began to hear renewed calls for increased government surveillance of Muslims, including spying on Muslim religious services. Although the Orlando shooter was born in the US, some are using the shooting to renew the debate over Muslim immigration. While the government certainly should prevent terrorists from entering the country, singling out individuals for government surveillance and other violations of their rights because of religious faith violates the First Amendment and establishes a dangerous precedent that will be used against other groups. In addition, scapegoating all Muslims because of the act of one deranged individual strengthens groups like ISIS by making it appear that the US government is at war with Islam.
The Orlando shooting is being used to justify mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping. For the past three years, the House of Representatives passed an amendment to the Defense Department appropriations bill limiting mass surveillance. But, last week, the same amendment was voted down. The only difference between this year’s debate and previous debates was that this year defenders of the surveillance state were able to claim that the Orlando shooting justifies shredding the Fourth Amendment.
The fact that the Orlando shooter had twice been investigated by the FBI shows that increased surveillance and wiretapping would not have prevented the shooting. Mass surveillance also creates a “needle in a haystack” problem that can make it difficult, or impossible, for law enforcement to identify real threats. Unfortunately, evidence that giving up liberty does not increase security has never deterred those who spread fear to gain support for increased government power.
The Orlando shooter successfully passed several background checks and was a licensed security guard. But, just like those who used Orlando to defend unconstitutional surveillance, authoritarian supporters of gun control are not allowing facts to stand in the way of using the Orlando shooting to advance their agenda. Second Amendment opponents are using Orlando to give the federal government new powers to violate individuals’ rights without due process. One pro-gun control senator actually said that “due process is what’s killing us.”
Ironically, if not surprisingly, one of those calling for new gun control laws is Hillary Clinton. When she was sectary of state, Clinton supported interventions in the Middle East that resulted in ISIS obtaining firearms paid for by US taxpayers!
Mass surveillance, gun control, and other restrictions on our liberty will not prevent future Orlandos. In fact, by preventing law-abiding Americans from defending themselves, gun control laws make us less safe from criminals. Similarly, mass surveillance and warrantless wiretapping erode our rights while making it more difficult for law enforcement to identify real threats.
If Congress really cared about our security and liberty, it would repeal all federal gun laws, end all unconstitutional surveillance, and end the hyper-interventionist foreign policy that causes many around the world to resent the US.
The Koran is more deadly than guns.
Ron Paul is right about the pointlessness – and unconstitutionality – of more gun control. Of course, by his opposition to Trump, he’s aiding Clinton, who not only will impose more gun control and import more Muslims, but will also instigate more wars in support of Sunni Salafis. What the fuck does he expect, that he’ll be named president by acclamation? If 2016 were Hillary v Jeb, it’d be fine to skip voting or vote for a Ron Paul type. We finally have a shot at someone different and he’s not encouraging people to take advantage of it.
RP needs to hop aboard the Trump Train!! But, if he did …. would he still be Ron Paul?
There have been worse tragedies — Wounded Knee, Waco, etc — but, I guess it doesn’t count if the Government is the terrorist.
Although I understand his points, Orlando is NOT the same as 9-11. 3,000+ is far larger than 49.
I’m not sure that’s true. You claim ” 3,000+ is far larger than 49.” However,
3+0+0+0 = 3
4 + 9 = 13
13 is greater than 3. I think you are wrong, Stucky.
Yes, I did learn Common Core Math. Proud of it. 🙂
‘snick
Ya fucken failed Common Core! This is how it works;
3 minus 0 minus 0 minus 0 = 3
4 minus 9 = -5
3 > -5.
See???
No, I don’t see. What’s that take-away-sign doing in front of the 5?
Big math like that is un-murrican. If Uncle Bammy wanted us to know big math, he would teach it to us. He doesn’t want us to know. So we shouldn’t know.
Perhaps Ron Paul could provide proof of injured and bodies of the dead of which he speaks, to date I have seen no photos or video of either.
..’singling out individuals for government surveillance and other violations of their rights because of religious faith violates the First Amendment’. Yes, but Ron refers to islam, which is more of a cult than a a religion, and spiritual elements are just a small part of its doctrine. In truth, islam is a comprehensive political, social, and economic system with its own authoritarian legal framework, sharia, which aspires to govern all aspects of life. Given the danger it has always posed to the civilized world, just outlaw it. Shit, everything else is against the law..
We missed a great opportunity four years back, and wasted the nomination on Mittens Romney. Let’s not make the same mistake twice!
The changing face of war:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/10/the_changing_fa.html
I don’t think Ron Paul has a good grasp on what is going on.
Ron Paul sounds like the other half-baked Libertarians. Islam is a cluster-fuck. It goes against most of the principles of our free society. It is an 11 century, retrograde, religion/political system that suppresses it’s followers.
It’s a bad belief, that we should discourage. It’s not equal to other religions.
“While the government certainly should prevent terrorists from entering the country, singling out individuals for government surveillance and other violations of their rights because of religious faith violates the First Amendment and establishes a dangerous precedent that will be used against other groups.”
For a Constitutional scholar that was pretty thin. The Constitution is supposed to be for US citizens, not every Tom, Dick and Abdul who can stretch their sandals across a border.
“In addition, scapegoating all Muslims because of the act of one deranged individual strengthens groups like ISIS by making it appear that the US government is at war with Islam.”
Yeah, imagine what it would be like if we ever made it appear like we were at war with the people who are at war with us, that’s crazy.
@HSF: “every Tom, Dick and Abdul” Good one!
It is just crazy to invite people with an inferior / violent / deranged / competing philosophy into our country. Which a large percentage don’t want to assimilate, and promote their political agenda.
Do you let the fox into the hen house?
Islam, I didn’t say radical Islam, Islam is at war with the entire world and it has been since its inception. Just because it lies dormant for long stretches of time, centuries even, doesn’t change that basic fact. It’s clearly stated goal is world domination. That’s its goal today that was its goal from centuries back and will be its goal 100 year from now. They make no attempt to hide that fact.
Many people still don’t get it. Everyone is struggling to figure out who directed this latest mass killing, did he receive instructions from Isis, is he connected to Al-Qaeda or is he just a crazy ‘loan wolf’? No all that line of questioning is like a dog chasing its tail. The reason this killer did what he did is the same for all the other terrorist attacks and that is they were driven by the ideology of Islam. It is Islam and these acts of terror are just steps in the process towards the goal of world domination.
The Islamic world has decided the time is now to push its agenda. Europe is in a weakened condition and most Americans are asleep unaware they are being attacked.
Yes it’s a war and as long as only one side knows that they will continue to win.
When you’re lined up to have you head chopped off will that be enough to convince you then?
Three Syrian refugees — aged 8, 10, and 13 — raped a little girl at knifepoint in Idaho before urinating on her body.
The Twin Falls council has done absolutely nothing. In fact, they are blaming the parents and concerned citizens for being ……… wait for it …….. RAAYYCISSSSS.
The little girl was playing outside Fawnbrook apartment buildings when the boys put a knife to her throat and forced her inside a laundry unit. She was then stripped naked, raped and urinated on. The 13-year-old reportedly told the younger boys to urinate on her because they were incapable of ejaculating.
The victim’s grandmother found the victim and then called the girl’s mother, who called the police. The police took 2 and a half hours to arrive but were unable to take any action due to the “language barrier”.
When she arrived, the mother of the alleged rapists was only able to say “no police,” while the father reportedly congratulated his 13-year-old son. Video of the entire assault was captured on the boy’s cellphone.
A follow-up KMTV report revealed that, “the case has officially been sealed by a judge with no chance of it ever being unsealed since all parties involved are minors.”
A video of a Twin Falls council meeting shows irate residents demanding to know why council members have done nothing to address the alleged rape, as well as numerous other issues involving Syrian refugees being housed in the area, including hit and run incidents and Muslims spitting on non-Muslims.
Around 50 Syrian “refugees” are reportedly housed at the Fawnbrook site.
Council members were also grilled as to how a mosque was approved after just 24 hours, whereas a new home application would take at least 2 weeks just to process.
In every instance, the council members claim ignorance as to the severity of the situation, with one even suggesting that residents’ concerns are based on anti-Muslim prejudice and even white supremacism.
http://www.infowars.com/report-three-syrian-refugees-rape-little-girl-at-knifepoint-in-idaho/
Stuck, this story is stated to be false in local news reports from Twin Falls.
There is more and more fictitious, outrage-inducing “news” on the web.
But, the supplied link shows the city council discussing the incident.
It would seem that 1) The shooting in Orlando is a fart in a windstorm compared to the twin towers of 9/11/01.. 2) Mr. Paul, however Libertarian he may be, is slipping in his old age (I may be classed as a hybrid humanist/libertarian myself – if a label is required)..
MA
I like Ron Paul and usually agree with him, but Islam is a different issue. You cannot make peace with people whose entire existence is based on making war against you.
OK fine…….Then would the maroons who downed me provide photos or video that actually show wounded and dead bodies from the gay bar. Still waiting for ANYTHING from ANYWHERE that is EVEN CLOSE to showing this event is what they say.
That is one of the best comments I have read, Bea.
Should there not be a full accounting of all weaponry, including those of the police? Every single bullet should be known with a ballistic report; from the dead and from the surviving. Also, from the walls ceilings and every item that may harbor a bullet or any other type of ordnance, and all of the clips and vestments should be accounted for and cataloged as well.
I find it difficult to believe the “Lone Shooter” idea. It sounds vaguely familiar… how close is Orlando to Dallas?
@Persnick: I agree. It more and more appears that yet another religious war is building between the radicals of Islam and the rest of us. Seems like the human race has done that a time or two, right? Didn’t learn the first couple of times, so we’re probably going to rinse and repeat.. Sad..But forced upon us by religion yet once again..
MA
Yes, indeed. I think some of the issue here is the inherent tension between taking decisive action to eliminate a potential threat, and being unreasonably brutal. This is illustrated well in the book and film Ender’s Game, where Ender saw signs that the aliens were no longer hostile, but the commanding general was firm that “it was either them or us.” Today we have liberals making all sorts of intellectual gymnastics trying to claim that Islam is not a problem, while anyone who isn’t brain-damaged can plainly see it is a problem.
@Bea: I live North of Orlando. Believe me when I say it was exactly what “they” said it was only much, much worse.
MA
Muck, I don’t believe it happened. What did you see
that makes you believe the story? Thanks Mr.
I’m also curious to hear. However, my BS detector says the massacre story is mostly true, but there were possibly more assailants and/or big mistakes by police. (You know, like the 3-hour delay in responding to an active shooter situation.)
Damn! I must start using the “Reply” box to comment on specific comments… Makes it more personal and more interesting that way.. Oh well, this is new again and forgive an old fart from doing it the old fashioned way (even though I lobbied for just what has happened with TBP!)
MA
Muck- If what you say is true where is the video of bloody wounded and dead bodies? What have you seen?
Bea,
Ditto
Sacrebleu Bea, Forget the pictures. To those who are convinced that this is a hoax, they will simply look at them and declare them to be “drill photos,” and when injured and bloody people are photographed those same people will call the blood fake. People will see in pictures that which they are inclined to believe to support the narrative that they ascribe to.
Let me ask you this: If you are inclined to believe that this “incident” is a hoax – a hoax presented by our government to turn the tide of American thinking on the subject of guns to a more docile and anti-gun attitude that would make gun confiscation much more acceptable to the population, I mean, this is the major undercurrent of thought relative to intent of the hoax I believe, then pray tell, why would you not have hired a crisis actor in the role of the shooter who was a white, right-wing, NRA member redneck such and such? Why would those behind the hoax let the entire narrative center on Islamic terrorism – the one thing that the government is trying to convince us does not really exist? By doing so they have to begin backpedaling as to cause and intent as we are now seeing with the redacted transcripts. Why not make the shooter a Bible quoting, SigSauer MCX-toting, faggot-hating, skinhead to get the message across without bringing more scrutiny upon the government’s protected Islamic camel fuckers? If it is indeed a hoax it serves the “divide and conquer” mentality simply on the issue of gun control. Bringing Islamic terrorism into your own hoax is self-defeating when you are hell-bent on promoting Islam as peaceful and its detractors as bigots, racists and Islamophobes. N’est pas?
nkit —- the voice of reason.
+1000
The Republican party still wants to get rid of Trump, or anyone who would change the status quo. They’re making too much money pretending to be a party in opposition and like the Democrats could care less who get killed. Or trying to change the system to stop them. Obama endorsed Hillary so she’ll never be indicted for her crimes us little people would go to jail for. The Democrats will vote for her regardless. As long as she mouths the liberal platitudes.
Nkit- You forgot to mention that Oreo transferred control of firearms to DHS in the blink of an eye after an event that seems to have no documentation and pictorial proof. Tell you what nkit, put up your case in video and credible photos and if convincing I wiil forever drop the subject.
Bea, First of all, I see that you did not attempt to answer my question. That is understandable to me because I suppose, like me, you can’t figure out how someone staging such an event would make such a grand faux pas and shoot themselves in the foot. All they needed was another Adam Lanza, or a reasonable facsimile, to make their point and achieve their agenda. An Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Allah, ISIS loving, camel piss-drinking Muzzie just throws a wrench in the spokes and derails the script of the hoax.
It’s credible photos that you seek? Please define what constitutes a credible photo, because you asked the same after Brussels and I supplied them. Upon looking at them you declared them all to be drill photos or staged photos of actors with fake blood on their faces etc etc. I don’t know what you believe a credible photo is. As I said before, if you think that you are going to see any photos of outrageous carnage, exposed body organs or projectile bleeding please don’t hold your breath. If they do in fact exist, they are in the hands of OPD or FBI forensics and they aren’t going to release them to the Orlando Sentinel, NBC, CBS, Time Magazine or any other media outlet. The point being that if the pictures do exist, we won’t see them – at least no time soon, or ever.
Needless to say, I won’t be putting up any videos or photos for your perusal – at least not before lunch. I do not wish for you to drop the subject for good at this point. Had I dropped the subject this soon after Sandy Hoax I would have different conclusions about it than I do now. I’m kind of stuck on the Islamic twist to this event. If the event was a hoax then the Islamic thing seems like a major incredible fuck up by the screen writers, director and producer. I’d just like a logical response to that issue so as to move beyond it and to continue to search for the truth of the matter.
nkit- Mateen is no random. You can’t find credible photo/video. Prove me wrong.
So if Mateen is no random as you say, then the only other alternative is that he is just another crisis actor playing a role in a directed hoax – a hoax perpetrated with the intent of showing: (A) that assault rifles are evil killers, and we must take them out of the hands of citizens (and then we move on to hand guns) and (B) that the Second Amendment is outdated and should be repealed or adjudicated to mean something other than what we commonly understand it to mean.
But then we get back to that pesky Islamic terrorism slant that just doesn’t fit into the script, and in fact is decidedly inconvenient to the overall intent and success of the hoax because it proves that despite the Administration’s protestations that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism, we see that it does indeed have a great deal to do with terrorism. Further, Islamic terrorism of this sort has proven to increase gun sales which is the last thing that the purveyors of the hoax wish to see as a result of their skulduggery. The fact that the “actor” playing the role of the shooter was a Muslim and claimed allegiance to terrorist Muslims while committing his crime is as I said decidedly inconvenient. It is in fact a major flaw, as I see it, in the theory that the shooting was a hoax. That is my opinion at this point.
“Prove me wrong.” ~Bea Leaver…… Sorry Bea, but I believe the burden of proof falls upon those that question and refute the official narrative in these instances. Coo Coo Cuchoo
Paul, can you hear me?
nkit- If you care to give it a rest of being one of the “official story” faithful for a few minutes read these articles:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/14/presstv-orlando
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/12/mk-ultra-triple-play-in-orlando
I can keep you busy with articles that prove my point for the next two weeks from numerous sources……coo coo cuchoo my ass. So far you have shown zip but delivered a lot of lip service.
Crime-in-Italy Bea,
I can’t believe you throw those two horseshit articles out there and try to claim that they “prove” anything. They are merely speculative articles by their own admittance from a questionable source which claims to be “The Journal for the Clandestine Community.” Now, that was not said to shoot the messenger. The author of the second one claims that this incident “looks to be” another false flag and that “Until more circumstantial evidence emerges, we just can’t yet know for certain what really happened.” Two things about that last quote: First even the writer admits we don’t know yet, but some people such as yourself , it appears, already seem to know for a fact that this was a hoax; second why does he want to see more “circumstantial evidence”? As you know, circumstantial evidence relies upon an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact as opposed to “direct evidence,” which is what the writer should be looking for and basing judgement upon.
The first article claims it was perpetuated to “demonize Islam”. Yeah, let’s demonize Islam at every opportunity and then bring millions of them into the country. That makes about as much sense as Stucky floating downstream on his back, beating his meat yelling “raise the bridge!” Yeah, Mossad is responsible – it has nothing to do with gun control. I guess Mossad worked in collusion with the FBI, OPD and over 1000 people to pull off the stunt.
Maybe it is a hoax, Bea. Like the author of your two articles, I have not made up my mind, but as I said previously, the burden of proof falls upon the disbeliever, and to this point I have seen no direct evidence that this was indeed a hoax- only the customary speculation. I’m certain that you can send me two more weeks of bullshit such as this. I know that you owe me no favors, but I’ll ask for one anyway; save them and don’t waste my time until you have concrete direct evidence.
Just one more thing, Bea. How many people were in on this hoax? I’d guess no less than 1000 – counting everyone. According to the article they were paid handsomely and that “they had to sign iron-clad confidentiality agreements with very long prison sentences if they ever disclosed the truth.” Do you honestly believe that they can keep that many people quiet by scaring them with a prison sentence – forever? NONE of them will talk to their families or friends who will then in turn spill their guts? None will try to blackmail for more money? None will EVER tell the truth? That’s just another point that truly stretches the imagination. Millions of dollars to demonize Islam? Really?
Oh yeah, one more thing…the “coo coo cuchoo” above was not being a smart ass. It was a reference to the Beatles song “I am The Walrus” which I’m sure you will recall was another clue in the “Paul is dead”
conspiracy many years ago. I’m sure you must have been all over it. I know I was.
nkit- Those two articles sure beat the big goose egg that you have provided. I guess PCR is as lame as the team at VT, right? And the guys at Washington’s Blog etc.? You ain’t got shit for an argument and to make it out that I’m the only one claiming this Orlando thing stinks to high heaven is telling that you are at a loss for anything to add.
For the last time, do you have any credible photos/video that proves ANYTHING is true about the Pulse nightclub shooting……..well no you don’t, now do you?
Nkit- Not only can you not find credible photos/videos of that event, you could not find your own ass with a map, GPS and a guide dog !
Blow Me!
My, my, my. What a skilled and rational debater you are. Very impressive. The “Blow me” thing kind of proves that you were right all along, despite not answering any of my reasoned questions. And, the two articles from the whack job conspiracy theory site? Brilliant, just fucking brilliant analysis in there…I mean, that is fucking Pulitzer Prize quality investigative journalism. It offers, no, it gives hardcore factual proof that this was a hoax, and those that might question it are morons, right?
Look, BEAver cLEVER, there are numerous videos etc that I could post individually, but why waste my time? You’ll claim that they are not from Pulse or that they are drill photos or whatever. One thing is for certain, they offer more proof than the fairy tale articles that you linked. Here, take your pick…I know, I know, they are all fake:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cell+phone+video+at+pulse+nightclub&spfreload=1
Also, show me where I said that you were “the only one claiming that this Orlando thing stinks too high heaven.” Your reading comprehension sucks. I never said that, and if you truly had any reading comprehension you’d know that I said that I had not made up my mind. That’s just your intellectual dishonesty showing. I offered two questions of reason about the incident and you chose to TOTALLY ignore them. Why is that? Because it’s simply easier to tell people to blow you and belittle them when you draw a mental blank, and can’t come up with a reasonable answer? Sure seems that way.
For the third time, the burden of proof falls upon the dis-BEA LEVER. So far you haven’t PROVED jackshit.. You’ve simply offered up a couple of pieces of journalistic rubbish which you claim is “proof”. Nonsense.
Bea, you truly fucking bore me.. When you have definitive proof then throw it out there for all to see. Until then, knock yourself out reading your bullshit sites and trying to prove to yourself that you are right. I got better shit to do than engage in ad hominems with you. Thanks for the reasoned debate.