Guest Post by Eric Peters
Maybe you’ve been thinking about buying an older car as a way to avoid some of the hassles, expense – and Big Brother-ish – aspects of owning a new car.
These are all-too-real. Especially the Big Brother-ish stuff, which is becoming insufferable as well as all-but-unavoidable. Good luck finding a new car without at least six air bags, an Event Data Recorder (EDR) and some kind of send-and-receive “telematics” (e.g., GM’s OnStar) that can – and will – be used to narc you out to either the government or the insurance mafia.
Or the merely aggravating – saaaaaaafety systems that pre-empt your decisions or scold you for the decisions you make.
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This stuff is waxing much worse as the car companies fall over each other to double-down on electronic idiot-proofing systems such as steering “assist” which countermands your steering inputs, if the car doesn’t like the way you’re steering. And Lane Departure Warning, which pecks at you with lights and buzzers if you dare to change lanes without signaling first. And – the worst of the lot – Brake Big Brother. That’s not what they call it, but ought to. It peremptorily slams on the brakes (and hits you with flashing warning lights) when the car thinks you’re not slowing down sufficiently or in sufficient time.
Older cars – especially those made before the mid-late 1990s – do not have most of these features and some have none, if you go back before the 1990s. Such cars expect you to drive them, do not “correct” your driving and cannot narc you out to the government or the insurance mafia.
To drive such a car is to be transported back to a better time, in many very real ways. Despite all the convenience of modern cars, the idiot-proofing and Big Brother-ism can be (and is) suffocating and even infuriating.
But, before you commit to buying an older car as an end-run around the not-so-great things about owning a new car, there are some things you probably ought to know about old cars, too:
More frequent maintenance –
You will need to change the oil and perform (or have performed) minor service/adjustment more often. For example, if the car has a carburetor, it will be necessary to check/adjust the choke, idle speed and clean it every so often to keep the engine running right. There will be regular tune-ups. Belts (not serpentine and self-adjusting, as is the case with most new cars) will need occasional tightening.
The upside is that most of this maintenance is pretty simple and can be competently performed by almost anyone who is mildly handy, with basic hand tools and the willingness to read a service manual and follow the instructions. It can be fun – and empowering – to take charge of your vehicle’s care, to be independent of the dealer/shop – to know you are capable of taking care of most issues that come up. As opposed to the helpless feeling that comes up when a new car just stops working and you have to take it to the dealer to deal with it.
Also, while this maintenance will be more frequent, it will usually be small potatoes as far as your wallet is concerned. Mechanical systems that need occasional adjustment – or which can often be rebuilt, by you, with inexpensive kits – as opposed to expensive electronics that cannot be be fixed by anyone and which you throw away and replace with an expensive new part.
The downside – if you aren’t handy or willing to learn – is having to find a shop/mechanic with the knowledge necessary to competently work on older cars. And having to spend the time going to and from the shop . . . waiting for them to fix your car.
But if you can turn a wrench – or learn how to turn a wrench – you’ll be free again.
And, have money again.
The “stereo” will suck –
It’s a radio, really.
One thing about new cars that it’s hard to say anything bad about is their audio systems. Some are better than others, but few suck. The least of the 2017s comes standard with six speakers and a decent digital tuner that is (usually) both Bluetooth and satellite radio-ready.
Many new cars offer surround-sound, 8-12 speakers and sound reproduction that was literally technically not possible in a car even as recently as ten or so years ago.
In the old days – this is before the early 2000s – pretty much the first thing you did after you got your new car home was take it to the stereo store the next morning. This even included “luxury” cars, which (by current standards) had vile playback equipment from the factory.
If you buy a car from those days, you will also probably be headed to your local stereo shop the next day. The upside is you can get a really good custom rig installed in whatever old car you buy, with exactly the features and capabilities you want and potentially just as good as the factory-installed stuff in a new car.
The downside is this can get very expensive. Also, you may have to upgrade the car’s electrical generating equipment (the alternator/charging system) to handle the load, if you have to have a serious system that uses serious juice.
The lighting will be cheap . . . but also sucks – 
Old cars (this is most cars made before the mid-’90s) had sealed beam headlights in generic round and square shapes. These have the virtue of being really easy to replace when they burned out – usually, just a couple of retaining/trim screws and a simple (and easy to reach) plug in the back.
And, they are inexpensive.
Even today, they generally cost about $25 each – vs. as much as several hundred dollars each for a modern car’s plastic, projector beam or High Intensity Discharge headlight assembly.
But, the illumination produced by the old sealed beam headlights – even “top of the line” halogen ones – is pitiful in comparison with the change-night-into-daytime capabilities of many new car lighting systems. You will have to drive more carefully at night – and also reduce speed because the old-timey sealed beam lights just don’t reach as far ahead and won’t give you as much time to react if, as a for-instance, Bambi steps out in front of your car.
But – as with audio systems – you can easily upgrade an older car’s lighting system to modern spec. It’s actually a neat thing, being able to choose, a la carte, the useful technical advances without having to buy into the ones that aren’t.
Which you can’t do with anything new.
You will have to drive the thing –
Modern cars are Big Brother-ish because people have become child-ish. They need help performing even basic behind the wheel competences such as backing out of parking spaces and parallel parking.
The old stuff will not help you parallel park, will not relieve you of the necessity to look behind the car before you put the car in reverse and take your foot off the brake.
It will not have Blind Spot Warming or Lane Departure buzzers.
If you follow the car ahead too closely and are not paying attention and the car ahead brakes suddenly, the old car will not pull your fat out of the fire.
While there may be cruise control, it will not be “adaptive.” You will have to keep track of your speed in relation to the traffic around you.
You must remember to pay attention.
But there will be no air bags, no seat belt buzzers to heckle you. None of your “events” will be “recorded” and the car can’t narc you out to the insurance mafia or the government.
It does exactly and only what you want it to do, unsupervised and uncontrolled.
Doesn’t it make you want to go shopping for one right now?
Had a 79 Bronco, managed to find one with a 351 and man I loved it. Used it for camping and hunting, taking the dogs up into the mountains, back roading. In 4 wd low, it seemed like it could go straight up a wall. I was able to maintain it pretty well and I’m no car mechanic. Sold it and have missed it ever since. Now my truck is a 04 Titan and it runs great, would never consider a $40-60,000 new truck(are you fucking kidding me?) But it sure seems like I’m the only one with an older truck, almost everyone is driving a fairly new or brand new one.
But I have been checking out craigslist for another Bronco. The right one will happen.
Got a ’95 Bronco, I’m the original owner, and you won’t get that truck away from me till you pry it from my cold dead fingers 🙂
You can buy an older vehicle, depending on how much older, and put it back into near perfect shape a whole lot cheaper than buying a new vehicle.
And you have what you want on it instead of what you had to buy that you don’t want because it was standard and you had no choice.
You seriously don’t need to go back that far to have a great car. I see 2000-2005 Buick LeSabre’s all the time with under 100k for chickenfeed prices. The earlier ones don’t have Onstar, but if you find one with a CD and cassette, then you’ll easily be able to use your phone/mp3 player. And the sound system is 6 speakers excellent. I drove one 50K+ and actually made money when I got rid of it. Just make sure the rear (firewall side) valve covers don’t leak or have been replaced.
Retired due to some serious medical issues at 60 beat them to a modest degree but had to SLOW DOWN a lot .
I told my wife I wanted to find a 1968 to 70 pick up truck with a straight six . Automatic and Air would be nice but having been a marine refrigeration and generater installer / mechanic for over 30 years I can retro fit nearly anything . She thinks I am nuts and then her “check engine idiot light ” kept coming on . It was an O2 sensor that when you see it you cannot touch it without supporting your body with your left ear and removing the air conditioning compressor . It’s shit like that should make any person with a shot glass of common sense wonder just what the hell are we getting into with all this stuff on a basic transportation device !
I know today’s cars are full of convience and safety goodies but my 68 Pontiac Lemans with the overhead cam six or my 70 Chevelle with a small block V8 were both sweet machines and you were wrapped in American steel ! You nail one of today’s cars with a 1968 bumper it’s on a tow truck but your 68 is still drivable in most cases . Miss my brothers Olds 442 he rolled it home on leave , totaled it but walked away … Just miss real American cars ! Like the Bob Seger song : Back in 55 we were making “THUNDERBIRDS”
My next car…
1) 1970 Monte Carlo
2) Install 4-wheel disc brakes
3) Lower the car
4) Install modern efi motor
5) Undercoat the shit out of it
6) Keep it forever by replacing motor every 250,000 miles.
We have one of both, old and new. Before we decided to downsize and starve the beast the wife bought a 2012 lincoln mkx which is a true pleasure to drive, it makes an 8 hour road trip seem like 4. It makes road trips fun again. As for the annoying seat belt buzzers I went to the junk yard and found 2 inserts which stay in all the time since neither one of us like seat belts.
If we want to go anywhere under the radar we drive my late 80’s nissan truck. In the fall when I have more time I am getting a 65 ford truck and fixing it up. I want something that will still function if the lights go out.
“As for the annoying seat belt buzzers I went to the junk yard and found 2 inserts which stay in all the time since neither one of us like seat belts”
Profoundly stupid. Someday you may get a rude lesson in physics.
Hey Dutchman, I was under the impression the the great and powerful Obama had repealed those pesky laws of physics
I don’t see how someone can vote this one down.
Traveling 60 mph = 88 ft/second.
momentum = mass * velocity
For simplicity we will use pounds as mass.
13,200 ft/lbs = 150 lb/person * 88 ft/sec
Another words, if you stopped suddenly at 60 mph – you body would exert enough force to lift 13,200 lbs / 1 foot / in 1 second.
If you stopped instantaneously at 60 mph a seat belt isn’t going to do much to mitigate the impact energy of it on your body.
But most impacts don’t result in an instantaneous stop and the passenger doesn’t absorb the total impact energy of one.
Out here in Cali the news showed a young guy launched out the front window up into an overpass freeway sign… Now thats some liftoff
I’m 68. I clearly remember in the 60’s – around Philly and NJ – the horrendous car accidents.
Today with better car construction methods, and air bags – people walk away from what would have been certain death / serious injury.
As far as lane departure / automatic breaking – it depends what kind of traffic you have to drive in. I have to drive in congested in-town freeways. The situation can change so quickly, it’s not good to take your eyes off the road – even for a few seconds.
My late model Volvo has a small yellow light on each mirror to tell you if someone is in your blind spot, and the automatic breaking – I see accidents everyday – the road is congested, the person looks back (for a second) in order to change lanes – but the car in front of him stops – suddenly – bang! He get’s rear ended, by the guy who was looking back, to change lanes. Automatic breaking is great for this kind of driving.
Hey Doucheman. You’re missing the whole point of the post, which has a strong philosophical element. It’s not about being “safe.” IT’S ABOUT BEING SELF-RELIANT AND FREE DUMBASS!! Now go wrap yourself in bubble wrap, lock yourself in the house and, for God’s sake, don’t do anything that might be even remotely unsafe.
After all, saaaaaafety is the prime directive now isn’t it. You know, if it saves even one life it’s worth it right?? It’s “for the children” right! Blah! Blah!
I don’t know why you’re so angry. This aint the wild west anymore. Many things change. When we’re talking about cars from 1967? That’s 50 years ago. Stop using the spec from 50 years ago. The ‘golden age’ – what bullshit.
I fail to see how better construction, better doors for side impact, roofs that don’t collapse in the event of a rollover, seat belts and air bags interfere with your driving experience?
I think it is self-reliant to make sure (in the event of an accident – say it’s caused by someone else) you come out alive and in one piece.
You’re one of the people who says “Gee I didn’t think it would happen to me” – or you’re one of the fatalities who was ejected from the vehicle.
Go ahead. Take your chances with that good old US steel. But just don’t hit anything.
Hey Rob. How about you lock yourself in the house with Doucheman and you guys can drink cocoa, talk about insurance and watch PSA’s into the wee hours of the morning while you cuddle on the couch in your government-approved, fire-retardant footie pj’s.
Xrugger – you moron. Car death rates have fallen around 70% since 1970. That is equivalent to tens of thousands fewer road deaths each year. Each year, you ignoramus. I would not let one of my kids in one of those death traps.
One death my ass. Tens of thousands a year. What a retard.
Thank-you LLOPH, I was thinking of another word other than moron. I just bought a 2017 Subaru Outback with all the features provided by the dual cameras in the windshield. I think its neat as hell. The adaptive cruise control is very cool. I let the car drive by itself with the lane assist feature bumping me back into the lane. This will go awry however quite easily. Given the behavior of the car with the new “drive itself” type features, I can see we are at least a decade away from having self driving cars. Stay tuned, because we will all be paying for the infrastructure required (white lines for example) for these to work without people dying. Besides, our other more catastrophic issues will probably trump them anyway.
What’s with all the curmudgeons on this website. Shit, have some fun before the SHTF.
Lilpoo you ignorant slut. Fair points all but still you miss my point. My beef is not with making cars safer in the sense of crash survivability (better steel, better structural design, etc.). My issue is with the big brother, nanny state aspects of the issue. How much personal responsibility, and ability do we give up in the name of “safety” and “really cool electronic gadgetry?” That, in my opinion is the main focus of the post.
That said, aside from the name calling, you make a good case. You’re a colossal prick, but true is true.
Damn, I love this website. What with all the “fuck you’s” and general name calling while points are being made. Free speech baby! Pull no punches and say what’s on ones mind. Gotta have a thick skin though. I wonder how long before it gets shut down?
xrugger – I got your point! But what fun is that! TBP is a great place. Nice response.
What a waste of a nice cherry ’59 impala.
The 59 4 door chevy in the picture is not an Impala. If memory serve me right it is a Bel Air. Now if it was a 2dr hardtop Impala I might be upset (depending on condition).
Point taken also worst case scenario . I don’t live to far from an airport but don’t lose sleep worrying about a plane crashing into my house .
No doubt today’s cars are full of safety features that improve everything that you may encounter . For most of us traveling normal roads under normal conditions a head on like that is very unlikely but it could happen
BG, I was in a headon about 6 miles from my house. If I’d been driving my ’68 F250 Camper Special, I probably would be dead. If I’d been driving my ’92 Deville, the other guy would probably be dead and I might have escaped serious injury. As it was, I was driving my ’02 PT Cruiser and I survived though the other driver was in my lane in a blind curve doing over 70, with his phone occupying his hands.
The airbag, seat belt and the structure of my little truck saved my life, but I was severely fucked up. It was 4 months before I got home. I won’t drive without seat belts now, and I’m still a little leery of my old Ranger, but I have no illusions about how much more dangerous an old, pre-airbag car is. I still use my ’68 Ford truck and won’t sell it, but I know now just how fast everything can change.
I want my ‘key’ back ! I do not want a ‘fob’ that costs $400 to replace if I lose it and also fails to start the vehicle if ‘its’ battery is dead.
It was about 100 years ago when Cadillac gave us the electric ignition and, presumably, the ‘key’ to go with it. The ‘key’ had no chip in it and cost less than a dollar to replace. People had spares made at the hardware store. Sure, you COULD lock your keys in the car but for another dollar you could buy a magnetic box and put a spare key in it or find a coat hanger and jimmy your door open. Now, no doubt at the urging of insurance companies and auto dealers, the key has been declared obsolete even if you don’t live in the ghetto or barrio with car thieves.
I can’t speak for all cars but if the battery in my fob dies, you can insert the fob in a receptacle that reads the chip and starts the car. Also the fob contains a regular key for opening the doors.
Make regular copies of your chipped key. Tape chipped key behind the dash near the ignition switch. Unchipped keys now work.
Me & my ‘ol ’92 f-250 diesel just keep chuggin’ along. 175000 so far. 10 yr. old granddaughter says what’s this. Poor girl never saw a window crank before. 15 mpg if I stay below 55. Heck, I’m 69. Ain’t hurrying for nobody!
Got us a real-life clover here.
As nice as new cars are, they sure are inconvenient at inopportune times. The key is just one example. Plus a shit ton of expensive things that go wrong.
Get an old car, modernize it.
Now, how can I make it safe(er), that video was a bit scary.
New cars are great up until the time the warranty runs out. Then they are an expensive pain in the ass whenever anything breaks down. My wife’s MB just ran out of warranty a few months ago. It’s probably time to sell it since under the hood it looks like a rolling computer. On the other hand, it is pretty safe to drive.
I think there is a sweet spot. Most things built since the implementation of airbags right up until the early 2000’s I can still work on to some degree. If a rad hose blows in my 05 Xterra I can replace it. On the other hand, if a sensor starts making noise it has to go to the garage. It’s right on the cusp of not being serviceable by me but with enough modern features to be a little safer and more reliable to drive than some of the older vehicles.
Mostly it’s about trade-offs. Pick your poison.
Francis- just read an article on how screwed up new car electronics are and are basically built only to last until warranty is up. And then you are looking at potentially thousands of dollars of computer “repairs”. I think the sweet spot for reliable easy to use cares was the 90’s into the mide 200’s up to about 2010. Anything newer and you are probably experiencing said electronic repair bills.
Precisely. The computer industry has destroyed the automotive industry. Don’t dare let them in your home to control anything!!!
an easy comparison is to pull up an 80’s model electrical mapping and then a “newer” version late 90’s model electrical mapping (many car models have continued decades); the 80’s model (especially carb’d) will have a few lines for ignition, lights, radio, but the 90’s will have lines all over the place, so many its difficult to keep track.
Yeah, 2010 seems to be about the limit for standard cars. Luxury cars made after about ’98 are expensive to repair and have a lot of electronics that are too complicated for me to deal with.
Francis,at this late date in comments and so far down the comments list, I write with little expectations of being read. But read, I should be.
I’ve been working on cars such as your wife’s for forty years. Benz tech thru and thru.
Point one to you, Eric Peter’s and whoever else reads my response to you
1) You do not OWN your car ever (comp aided design has eliminated the mistake by past manufacturers in creating something accidently better than intended)
2)Since failure is programmed via CAD, within months your A/C, Signal acquisition modules, steering locks, ignition switches (seat yourself in the car and point to anything) will fail within months, after warranty. Sorry to sound like a gold bullion salesman
3) While watching this slow digression within the industry these past so many years…Ive lately concluded that we aren’t meant to fully own a car anymore, regardless of make. Cheap interest rates, a backlog of vehicles unsold and the “subscription” model all other corporations are using, our data servers (HA), being the best example, appears to be where the car manufacturers have gone to.
To Eric Peter’s, I’ve just purchased a 93 Mazda B2200 to bang around in. My 99 MB CLK 320 will most likely be sold as I don’t wish to enter my sixtieth decade having to talk to the car via laptop. I’m done!!!
To you Francis and your wife…
Lease, as this is what is expected of you
Best wishes
It is quite freeing driving a vehicle that can actually be repaired at home. It does take some time, but most of the work if not always easy, is generally doable. If you’re new to auto repair, the “idiots” guides are a great place to start. You will likely miss the cupholders. I drink alot of coffee, and I miss them. If you go back far enough you’ll rediscover the joy of the “wing window”. As far as stereo quality, first of all the inside of a car is a terrible audio environment so why bother blowing a bunch of money on a big time stereo? Secondly, I’ve relegated myself to mostly talk radio, so sound quality for me is not much of an issue. When you’re getting started what you think you’re saving by doing it yourself you’ll probably be spending on new and/or specialized tools. The savings doesn’t really come until you’re pretty well kitted up. Tune ups get easier and easier and soon enough you’ll be able to tune a carburated engine by the sound of the motor and the smell of the exhaust (don’t inhale, just a little dab’ll do ya). And again, if you go back far enough, you’ll find people everywhere showing their admiration for your ride. And you’ll be able to immediately see your car in a parking lot, since old cars don’t tend to “all look the same”.
“Tune ups get easier and easier and soon enough you’ll be able to tune a carburated engine by the sound of the motor and the smell of the exhaust ”
Christ, with fuel injection this is all a thing of the past. I put new plugs in my Volvo Twin-Turbo at 100,000 miles just because I thought it may need it.
I got rid of my 2 1/2 gallon bucket of Grayline Carb cleaner, 20 years ago. No more rebuilding carbs. No more points / plugs / condenser / rotor / cap – every Autumn.
Nostalgic about this ? Why?
1967 Dodge Coronet 440, two door, red, original chrome, American racing wheels, BFG RWL’s, single plenum intake. That’s why. 🙂
Count me as someone who misses the “wing vent”.
I would love to keep an older vehicle in the garage as a hedge against a solar flare or emp.
Well, that will work for one tank of gas, and then what? Afaik, gas pumps use electricity, and the trucks that deliver gasoline aren’t themselves models from the 1970s.
Am I missing something here?
I’m still driving my 1998 Toyota Tacoma I brought brand new .Got 461,000+ miles on it and still going strong without all the bells and whistles of the new models.I will probably keep it for the rest of my life.Basic maintenance and a new paint job is all it ever needs.
Here in NH it is nearly impossible to find a vehicle that is more than 10-15 years old with a body and frame that isn’t completely rusted out from the salt they put on the roads.
I am not saying don’t buy an old car. I have a nine year old Range Rover that can’t rat on me and a 1987 Volvo. I am just saying that you should avoid hitting anything if you run an older car. The new crumple zones make the obviously lighter newer cars much safer. Don’t think that more steel means more safer. That is just not true. But you don’t need to hit things. It’s not required that you have an accident. I find that having fewer driving aids makes me pay more attention to my driving. Your experience might be different. Overall, I support the buy old and avoid the fascists approach to transportation.
My 16 year old son was rear ended by a drunk driver pushed into a telephone pole last week. Air bags seat belt and new car design probably saved his life. Walked away with only a concussion. Car was totaled front and back. Don’t let your kids drive in an old beater.
Greetings,
Though I can afford to do otherwise, I drive a 1989 Chevy S-10 with a covered extended bed. It has 114k original miles. I live is S. California and I only have street parking available to me. With that said, why would I spend 50K for something I leave parked outside? Why would I ever want to put anything of any value on the 405 freeway which is so pothole’d that NASA could use it to train astronauts to drive on the moon. For example, I recently watched a modern pickup throw its axle after hitting a pothole on the 101 as they cant shut the freeways down to repair them without creating chaos at this point in time.
I like my old truck as I’m also not seen as a target for robbery.
As soon as we officially become debt free, job one will be to buy the first of two older cars (pre-1990) and build new engines, rebuild the tranny’s, re-do the wheel/axle bearings, new brakes all around and new steering/suspension and drive line rebuilds plus a few other odds and ends. It will be far cheaper than buying new and the cars won’t be computerized.
We’ve always driven older model POS type vehicles so being required to “drive” them will be nothing new but having them all fixed up and fancy will be new. We’re looking forward to it! We might keep a newer rig garaged for longish road trips but daily drivers will be older rigs that I can do all the work on myself.
Indent Service ,you are blessed with wisdom my child .Now bug off.?
Nickel Thrower ,I hate to be the one to tell you but you do not live in Southern California.This makes me question your mental health.I can help and I’m available 24/7.
Jeez! Buy a plain vanilla Prius, fill it up once a month, need it or not, and be done with it.
I just took a road trip of 4600 miles and syphoned gas out of it when I finished..
My uncle was a highway patrolman for decades. He attended many many fatal accidents. Here is what he told me about seat belts:
“In all those decades, I never unbuckled a body”.
There it is. Seatbelts. Your best friend in an accident.
Seriously, I cannot believe we are even talking about whether seat belts are a good idea.
But if norman franklin and his old lady want to roar around sans belts, what the fuck do I care?
Just collect the meat bags, clear the road, and move on.
Rdawg, I can’t believe you guys are still talking about seatbelts as well.
But sometimes my lovely bride and I like to roar around sans pants as well as sans belts.
And if we end up as meat bags on the side of the road at least the state and it’s parasitic grifters won’t be bankrupting our children.
TMI!
Damn, I’m not even that old yet and the thought of driving around pantsless .. well, let’s just say the sight would not be aesthetically pleasing. By either of us!
We aren’t quite POWM yet, but some things should probably be kept private …. !