Guest Post by Pat Buchanan
When elected chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court in 2000, Judge Roy Moore installed in his courthouse a monument with the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved into it.
Told by a federal court his monument violated the separation of church and state, Moore refused to remove it and was suspended — to become famous as “The Ten Commandments Judge.”
Roy Moore is now the Republican candidate for the Senate from Alabama, having routed Sen. Luther Strange, whom President Trump endorsed and campaigned for.
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Moore’s primary win is a fire bell in the night for GOP senators in 2018. And should he defeat his Democratic opponent, the judge will be coming to Capitol Hill, gunning for Mitch McConnell.
Yet it is the moral convictions of the candidate that make this an interesting race for all Americans. For Moore is a social conservative of a species that is almost extinct in Washington.
He believes that man-made law must conform to the “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,” as written in Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence.
If a law contradicts God’s law, it is invalid, nonbinding. In some cases, civil disobedience, deliberate violation of such a law, may be the moral duty of a Christian.
Moore believes God’s Law is even above the Constitution, at least as interpreted by recent Supreme Courts.
Homosexuality, an abomination in the Old Testament, Moore sees as “an inherent evil.” When the high court, in Obergefell v. Hodges, discovered a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, Moore, back on the Alabama court, defied the decision, was suspended again, and resigned.
Postmodern America may see the judge as a refugee from the Neolithic period. Yet, his convictions, and how he has stood by them, are going to attract folks beyond Alabama. And the judge’s views on God, man and law are not without a distinguished paternity.
In his “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” Dr. King wrote: “(T)here are two types of laws: there are just laws, and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that ‘An unjust law is no law at all
“A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law, or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas, an unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal and natural law.”
In his Declaration, Jefferson wrote that all men are endowed by their “Creator” with inalienable rights, and among these is the right to life.
Many Christians believe that what the Supreme Court did in Roe v. Wade — declare an unborn child’s right to life contingent upon whether its mother wishes to end it — violates God’s law, “Thou shalt not kill.”
Throughout our history, people acting upon such beliefs have defied laws, and are today celebrated for it.
Abolitionists, in violation of laws they believed immoral, set up the Underground Railroad to help slaves escape to freedom. King believed that laws imposing racial segregation violated the American “creed” that “all men are created equal” and acted on that belief.
Thomas Moore is considered by Catholics to be a saint and moral hero for defying Henry VIII’s demand, among others, that he endorse a lie, that the king’s marriage to Anne Boleyn was not adultery.
Early Christians accepted martyrdom rather than obey laws of the Caesars and burn incense to the gods of Rome.
After Hitler took power in 1933, he authorized the eradication of “useless eaters” in the Third Reich. Those who condemned these laws as violations of God’s law, and even attempted to assassinate Hitler in 1944, are today regarded as moral heroes.
Moore, should he win, is going to become an object of fascination in The Secular City. Yet his questions and concerns are those of the silent millions on the losing side of America’s culture war.
Is the USA still a good and Godly country when 55 million abortions have been performed with the sanction of law in 45 years?
Do court decisions that force Christians to act against their religious beliefs have to be obeyed? What is the duty of Christians in a paganized and perverted society?
What is taking place today is a growing alienation of one-half of the country from the other, a growing belief of millions of Americans that our society has become morally sick.
Christianity and the moral truths it has taught for 2,000 years have been deposed from the pre-eminent position they held until after World War II, and are now rejected as a source of law. They have been replaced by the tenets of a secular humanism that is the prevailing orthodoxy of our new cultural, social and intellectual elites.
If elected, Judge Moore, one imagines, will not be rendering respectfully unto the new Caesar.
“If a law contradicts God’s law….”. That sounds like something the Taliban or ISIS would say.
No; ISIS and Taliban would use ‘Allah’, not God. Thus, you can immediately spot a 7th century Islam sub-human very easily.
The word Allah is also used by Arabic speaking Christians as well as Sikhs. And “sub-human”? Which Gospel did you get that from?
Marsh….I am an Atheist that respects people of faith where that faith does not profess harm to others.
By asking what Gospel I got that from tells me that you are a typical ignorant liberal – one that makes statements without knowledge.
Marsh,
You fail to understand the word “Gospel”.
“Gospel” means “good news,” meaning the arrival of the messiah.
Did you read the post about how we are known for our acts? That’s how…
Hey Marsh. Thanks for starting my morning off right with yet another good chuckle at what has to be one of the most simplistic, knee-jerk, ill-informed and willfully ignorant statements I’ve come across on TBP to date. Well done.
Conflating the things you are conflating is silly on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin. Alas, I have no time to comment in depth at the moment. I guess I just have to settle for calling you some names.
Oh hell. I can’t help it. One quick beat down.
Equating Christianity and Islam, as you have done in one singularly thoughtless sentence, betrays a level of historical, philosophical, spiritual, and cultural incomprehension that is truly remarkable.
Oh…and you are a maroon.
“Equating Christianity and Islam”, sounds like you envision some hierarchy of religions. How does that fit into your view of the First Amendment?
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Another non-sequitur…
Allah is Jehova – Doc Pangloss
Allah (/ˈælə, ˈɑːlə, əlˈlɑː/;[1][2] Arabic: الله, translit. Allāh, pronounced [ɑɫ’ɫɑːh] (About this sound listen)) is the Arabic word for God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word generally refers to God in Islam.[3][4][5] The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means “the god”, and is related to El and Elohim, the Hebrew words for God.[6][7]
The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] More specifically, it has been used as a term for God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and Arab Christians.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used in this way by Bábists, Bahá’ís, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews.[10][11][12] Similar usage by Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia has recently led to political and legal controversies.[13][14][15][16]
Wikipedia
Jeez. Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees…
Saying “If a law contradicts [imaginary supreme being]’s law….” sounds exactly like something the Taliban or ISIS would say. Just because one religion is even wackier than another religion doesn’t negate the truth of MarshRabbit’s observation.
The real difference being that the law Christians understand to be used for civil gov’t, the Ten Commandments, does not contain in it beheadings for disobedience, pedophelia, burning people to death, female genital mutilation, jihad, etc…. as the laws of Islam does.
It only requires that people treat others as they would be treated. No murders, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness……
Of such is this country’s founding. And the negligence to observe it the reason for it’s decline from the greatest nation the world has ever seen.
Blessings:-}
Moore was also 1 of 2 Alabama SC justices who thought Obama should turn over a legit birth certificate. I suspect his opponent will be playing that up come election time. As far as Moore going to DC and actually causing 1 ounce of change in favor of the American people? Well, there’s a first time for everything.
“Judge Roy Moore installed in his courthouse a monument with the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved into it.”
——- article
WOW!!!!
The Ten Commandments that Moses himself brought down from the mountain??
That’s one helluva archeological find. Must be worth billions.
I wonder if Judge Moore also has in his possession the Ark Of the Covenant.
Nice catch on that grammatically vague sentence Stuck. Also nice to see you in such fine sarcastic form so early in the morning.
Thank you.
Apparently we have two totally humourless assholes amongst us this morning. Probably some butt-hurt snowflakes from the Israel thread. I think I might have made one or two more enemies.
Don’t worry, Stucky, they’ll soon get the drift.
Stucky…………..with your last sentence, you are denigrating Judge Moore, but it was not the Judge that wrote:
“Judge Roy Moore installed in his courthouse a monument with the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved into it.”
I’m not denigrating anyone.
It was a poorly constructed sentence … and resulted in a pretty funny image in my mind.
Since you bring up the topic of proper sentence construction.
You may benefit from understanding the use of “…” in a sentence.
It generally denotes omitted text.
Stucky omitted “muthafucka”.
Dumb…
Scoff if you will heathens but this country is in dire need of returning to God’s Law and we shall be judged if we do not. Judge Moore has what it takes to stand up to the dark side and I like that.
“Moore believes God’s Law is even above the Constitution, at least as interpreted by recent Supreme Courts.”
Wow. Doesn’t that scare you … even a little bit?
Before you give me a knee jerk down vote …. especially you Christians … hear me out. This is NOT an anti-Christian stance I’m taking.
I wrote a fairly long original article as to why Islam and American culture are 100% irreconcilable. The gist of it was that Islam is permanently stuck in the 7th century … because unlike Christianity where the Bible is “inspired” while written by humans, … Islam believes the Koran is dictated directly by God which means it can never be altered to mean anything other than what it did over a thousand years ago … which means they are incapable of achieving enlightenment via a Reformation as experienced by Christianity …. which means they can not and will not EVER submit to our Constitution.
Pretty much everyone overwhelmingly agreed with that. The article link is below.
But, now that we’re talking about natural law and/or Christian laws it’s OK to do the same? How can this be??
I can (almost) understand the urge to move towards this Theistic State when strong individual examples are given … such as the abortion issue.
But, once you use the bible as your guiding light it never ever stops at the big and easy issues. Like all systems of laws and regulations, the intrusions will seep into every crack and crevice of our lives.
Keep the Sabbath holy. That’s one of the ten commandments. What will you do with that? In the OT violating it was punishable by death. Passing ANY law that allows business to be conducted on Sunday would be violating Scripture, which would potentially demand civil disobedience if it was not overturned. Is that the America you want?
Placing God’s law — just one law, or all 600+ laws, or just the ones you pick and choose — over the Constitution is a very very bad idea and will result in a Theistic State which all will eventually regret. Besides, what ever happened to the idea of separation of church and state?
OK, now vote me down. But at least justify your reason. This is an important topic, and I’m willing to listen to reasonable arguments.
Stucky,
Reference Matthew 12.
And consider your post in relation to the accusations put forth by the Pharisees.
This is how you gain understanding of how the Biblical commands are applied and when, why and to whom they were meant to be applied.
James 1:25 and 2:10 refer to the Ten Commandments as the “Perfect law of liberty.” William Barclay, the Scottish theologian, put it this way:
“The Law of liberty; that is, the Law in the keeping of which a man finds his true liberty. All the great men have agreed that it is only in obeying the law of God that a man becomes truly free. So long as a man has to obey his own passions and emotions and desires, he is nothing less than a slave. It is when he accepts the will of God that he becomes really free.”
Anonymous, no fair sending anybody on a fool’s errand. You have the chapter, you could post a particularly germane verse and give us and idea of your point. Here’s a lesson from the bible:
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Do you see how an illustration, the lilies, is used to support the main point that god takes care of all? You should study this technique and apply it here; if you bring up an example, you should make the point clear.
Chekhov’s gun is a dramatic principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed; elements should not appear to make “false promises” by never coming into play. The statement is recorded in letters by Anton Chekhov several times, with some variation:[1][2][3] Wikipedia
EC
The entire chapter is what is relevant, not just a verse plucked from it out of context.
And my intent is to have it read with everything in context, it contains the words spoken by Jesus.
You can substitute Natural Law for God’s Law without much of a difference. Nor is the Constitution an issue here. The Constitution was conceived for “a Christian Nation” as several of the Founders stated. As a Constitutional lawyer myself, the claim that Roe v. Wade was compelled by the Constitution was regarded as ludicrous even by Roe’s supporters in my law school….What we have now is the “living Constitution”, meaning none at all, so the “Constitution” is simply whatever the whims of the elites in DC dictate at the moment..Everyone in DC, and the entire legal profession, knows this…
That also makes it impossible for a man to actually know if what he is doing is legal (Constitutional) or not since that status doesn’t occur until it is ruled that way by the Court (and even then, the Court can rule against itself and make what it has ruled legal illegal from that point till the next ruling).
When the law means different things on different days for different people then there is no law, there is just the whim of men with agenda’s in the place of it.
‘The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.’ -Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the United States Senate unanimously and signed into law by President John Adams, 1797.
Treaty of Tripoli
Article 11 reads:
” As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
in context of the entire article.
That was simply a lawyer tactic to keep from being accused of using religionfor war.
While we’re at it, whatever happened to the separation of the press and the state?
The church and state have merged eagerly, somebody posted a ridiculous celebration in a Televangelical church where a bald eagle was released in the purported house of god. The damn bird, which might not be kosher because it is a carrion eater, glided overhead as the moronic infidels chanted USA USA USA. How pleasing it must be to hear in heaven as the maroons praise Caesar in the house of the lord.
Did David win renown by chanting USA USA USA as he brought the Ark of the Covenant back to Israel? Hell no! He danced before the lord and embarrassed himself in Saul’s daughter’s eyes by removing his wifebeater T-shirt in public. Although he was the head of state, he told her he would not simply humble himself, he would humiliate himself to please God.
EC
Stucky: I believe you know what day the Sabbath is 🙂
Saturday prior to Christianity.
Saturday prior to the catholic church and I dont throw one of the 10 Commandments (arguably the most important one) to the trash for the pope. Pretty sure Christianity was all about the 7th day but your name is hot so there is that.
Also pretty sure I shouldnt have gotten into the doomsday supply of Grey Goose last night
Stucky, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution where written by people who followed the Christian faith, though many were Deists. The country was based on that, including the Pilgrims. George Washington himself had thanksgiving prayers. Our founding documents where signed “in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The separation of church and state was something written by Thomas Jefferson that was never part of the lawmaking in this country. It was from personal writings, which others took and used to make their own points.
Prior to the Civil War, each country had state constitutions that declared that only protestant or “Christian” religions were allowed in the state. Do you think the founders of this country had Buddhists and Muslims in mind when they talked about “freedom of religion?” No, they were talking about free protestant religions, or free Protestant religions that did allow sine Catholic religions as well, depending on the state.
Until just a few years ago, South Carolina had “blue laws”, where only food stores were allowed to open on Sunday. We had a vote a few years ago that did away with those. And before that, not even food stores were allowed to open. Nothing could open on Sunday. So the separation of church and state took a long time coming to South Carolina.
“…Prior to the Civil War, each country had state constitutions that declared that only protestant or “Christian” religions were allowed in the state….”
Virginia Baptists didn’t appreciate paying taxes to support the Episcopalian church.
Relax, Stucky. He’ll only be 1/100th of the senate. Hopefully he’ll say a bunch of whacked out shit that drives people crazy like that Mexican girl in the other thread. The fat one.
He can’t fail to be infinitely better than McCain and many other GOP senators…
I suppose you’re right, Iska. I really thought this article would have gotten a LOT more comments. I mean, placing the Bible OVER the Constitution is really quite controversial, isn’t it? I guess not. Oh well, one never knows what will catch fire here, and what won’t.
Would you do me a favor? Please tell Anonymous above to shove Matthew 12 up his rectum, and that I don’t respond to chick-shit coward Anons? TIA.
Constitution is primary – by a Moon shot.
Kokoda, not exactly. It may be today, but the early Christians didn’t follow Rome’s lawgivers. The Christian religion is outside of government. It was formed outside of Roman law. And it is today outside of American law, Constitution or not, religious Congressmen or not.
A true Christian is required to follow God’s law, regardless of man’s law, period. The true Christian is only required to follow man’s law as long as that law does not goes against God’s law In that way, it corresponds with Islam, but only in that way. Islam is totally different, because Islam itself is the law of the land, period, and Christianity and Islam are very separate religions. Christians can live anywhere, following God’s law, and don’t generally cause problems, though they are persecuted in some countries for this (usually for not following Islamic law.) But Muslims, when in another country, will try to take over the country, violently if necessary. Very different from Christians, who are supposed to spread the word peacefully.
Second, the Constitution is not supreme is all matters according to the Constitution itself. It depends on what you’re talking about. Defense and trade outside of the country, yes. Most everything else was delegated to the states and the people. The states, prior to the Civil War, were supreme in most instances, especially those touching the everyday people. Only after the Civil War did the federal government become supreme.
“The Christian religion is outside of government. It was formed outside of Roman law.”
Perhaps.
But, Christianity was greatly influenced by the Roman culture. When Constantine convened his great council around 312AD and Christianity became the official state religion the entire Roman culture was, in essence, absorbed into Christianity. Many unfortunate compromises were made, both spiritually and worldly.
“…A true Christian is required to follow God’s law….”
well the problem is that you Christians are constantly arguing over “God’s law”
The fat one, well that narrows it down, Iska.
EC
Regular Christians (not the extremists spouting Bible verses every other sentence) are the best people on the planet.
Muslims are the worst people on the planet.
Liberal Atheists are one step above Muslims.
I rank Liberal Atheists below Muslims, since Muslims are honest about their intentions…
you beat me to it,pyrrhus–
..wolf in sheep’s clothing…–
Is there such a thing as a conservative atheist? Would that Messr. Deck Board?
I like the way you think, Kokoda.
A newbie with .001 of voting power won’t be earth shattering, but still with the advance of the abortion issue and the anti religious sentiment (except for Islam), I for one will be quite happy to hear of his take on these and other issues. Christians have been the fabric of our government for hundreds of years, it’s nice seeing the pendulum swing back; even if it’s just one one hundredth of a percent for now. No, I don’t expect a declaration making every American a Christian as in Constantines day, but hey, you never know!
One one hundredth of one percent (.001%) is 1 in 10,000. When did the senate get to 10,000 members? Moore will have 1% of the vote (1 in 100).
Maff is hard.
My apologies, a quick post before work without double checking my math is my bad.
Thanks for catching my mistake
We don’t need more Senators, we just need to rope them in, away from lobbyists and bribes.
All the Christian or not aside, it would be a good step in the right direction if we could just return to being moral and courteous.
Well,the comments in regards to this article about math/use of the English language/how to properly present religious phrase ect. have certainly been,hmmmm……..,,ah,fuck it!
I till recently knew nothing about Moore and still know very little except he seems to piss off demoncrats and republicunts,for me,good enough for now!We need at this time in the country a lot of bulls in the china shop to shake the foundations and perhaps destroy the bad foundations and try and get a republic.I am at the point personally that perhaps a total destruction and salting of the earth/poisoning of the wells is what is needed to accomplish aforementioned republic birth.
Oh,and as am not a citizen of Alabama what i think about Moore really doesn’t fucking matter one bit as cannot vote for him.
“A true Christian is required to follow God’s law, regardless of man’s law, period.” —— Vixen
Period? Which of God’s laws? That’s the fly in the ointment. It is a very complex issue.
Which Mosaic laws continue and which do not? How do we know?
Are there certain perpetual and obligatory moral standards? Probably … But some of them come wrapped with civil laws. So, then which ones are included, which ones are not, and why? What is the standard?
Many biblical laws, both moral and civil, have death penalties attached to them. Shall we execute Sabbath breakers today? What about adulterers?
— Some scholars make the argument that no Old Testament laws remain today.
— Others argue that virtually all do.
— Still others say that only a few laws apply, and others say more or even most.
— Some say that what laws do apply only apply in a spiritual way for the church.
— Others argue that some laws apply outside the church in the realm of civil government, but only certain “principles” apply, and that things like the actual punishments prescribed in Old Testament law do not apply.
Are you confused yet??? Yes? Good. The bad news is that I’ve only scraped the tip of the iceberg!!!
That Christians should “just follow God’s law” is an exceedingly complex, contentious, and confusing conundrum …. and I’m talking now just WITHIN Christianity! Attempting to codify all that into the American legal system …. with simplistic sound bites such as Judge Moore puts forth …. is not only impossible, but kind of nutty when one really thinks about it.
Speaking of confusion, Roy Moore is also a “Christian Zionist”:
“We must remember that Israel is the United States’ most important ally and partner in the Middle East and should reject agreements or policies that undermine Israel’s security. We should pass the Taylor Force Act and move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.” https://www.roymoore.org/Positions/
Here’s an example of how “God’s law” is observed in the Jewish State today. Your tax dollars at work, making the world safe for hypocrisy:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/travel/1.576146
Israel has returned to their land in idolatry in these last days as the prophecies said they would. The majority of Israel’s population do not keep the law of Moses. Which is why they have one of the largest sodomite populations per capita in the world.
Blessings:-}
“…one of the largest sodomite populations per capita in the world.”
bet you got all excited typing that, fucking moron