Please take a few minutes to think about and then answer today’s questions (at least in your head) BEFORE reading the article.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
We often discuss at length the “life” and especially “liberty” aspects of this most important phrase in our Constitution, and rightfully so. But, “happiness” is often overlooked. Perhaps because it’s such an individual thing, somewhat nebulous, and whereby consensus is practically impossible? So, then …
QUESTION 1: — What does “the pursuit of happiness” mean personally, to YOU?
QUESTION 2: — What do you think “the pursuit of happiness” meant to the Framers of the Constitution?
QUESTION 3: — Does either question even matter? Why, or why not?
[Side Note: Here is Jefferson’s original draft: — “We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness.”]
Hey, did you THINK about your answers first?
The first question might as well be; “Happiness is, fill-in-the-blank“. The options seem as endless as the number of commenters, such as; Government leaving me alone. Doing whatever I want as long as I don’t infringe on other’s rights. The American Dream, owning a home. Property rights. A new car. Education. My health. Family. Freedom to worship any God any which way I feel like. Baseball. Apple pie. To name just a few. And each statement of belief is as valid as the other, at least to the person making them.
Yet, there are problems with defining happiness that way. We have labels for people who pursue happiness as a goal; playboy and hedonist come to mind. And, what is a heroin addict except one who is locked in the hell of always being high, or happy? We even tend to look down on those who pursue happiness too strongly, especially if they do so at the expense of responsibility. For example, playing games on the computer all day makes many young people happy, while doing homework hardly makes anyone happy. So, we mock or scold that kid when he can’t get into college. “You should delay gratification! Work now, be happy later. That is the secret to happiness!”, is something my parents drilled into my head whenever I expressed my unhappiness about something, which, if I recall correctly, was a near constant.
And so, sure enough, my life has been abundantly blessed. I live in the richest country ever conceived by mankind. I have never, ever, known hunger. While I didn’t go to an Ivy League school, I graduated with a Computer Science degree, paid for by Uncle Sam, and worked for both HP and IBM. I’ve lived in many beautiful places; a condo on the beach, a house in the woods, and now rent in a mansion. Have two great kids. Ms Freud is a great partner. And that’s just a start. I live better than most Kings from yesteryear.
Please don’t misunderstand my intent. There is nothing wrong with the above examples of happiness … nor whatever your definition might be. One thing I’m saying is this; I should be the happiest sonuvabitch in the world! Except, I’m not. And, neither are most Americans.
Only 28% of Americans are “very happy”! (Why 43% of Mexican are “very happy” is a mystery to me. Maybe that percentage will go down once Trump builds the Wall?)
The cover story of the current issue (Nov 2017) of National Geographic is titled, “The Search For Happiness”. Turns out that Costa Rica is the happiest nation on earth. Quoting from the article;
“Who is the world’s happiest person? It may be Alejandro Zuniga, a healthy middle aged father who socializes at least six hours a day and has a few good friends he can count on. He sleeps at least seven hours most nights, walks to work, and eats six servings of fruits and vegetables most days. He works no more than 40 hours a week at a job he loves with co-workers he enjoys. He spends a few hours every week volunteering; on the weekend he worships God and indulges his passion for soccer. In short he makes daily choices that favor happiness, choices made easier because he lives among like-minded people in the verdant, temperate Central Valley of Costa Rica.”
It turns out the happiest place in America is Boulder, CO.
“People in Boulder seem to have learned the secret to living a balanced life. Many thrive in four out of the five measures [financial, physical, social, community, purpose] of well-being, especially in community engagement and financial health.”
I guess being a rich social justice warrior does make some people very happy! At any rate, that only 28% of Americans are “very happy” leads me to believe that perhaps we need a to rethink happiness. But, how? One way might be to adopt a more Constitutional view. And, to do so, we must first turn to the Greeks.
Ancient Greeks distinguished between two kinds of happiness or well-being. One is known as hedonia; — it is characterized as moment-to-moment pleasure, the emotional aspect of happiness, being pleasurably content with your life as a whole. It is what almost all people thing of (see above examples) when they think about ‘happiness’ — and that includes what the Framers wrote in the Constitution.
But, there’s evidence that that’s NOT what Jefferson meant. There is another Greek word for happiness; eudaimonia, the feeling that one’s life is being lived virtuously.
A couple more examples that “eudaimonia” is what the Framers meant.
Madison (in a letter to James Monroe in 1786) wrote that “happiness” cannot simply be identified with meeting people’s interests, but includes a higher, moral reference;
“There is no maxim in my opinion which is more liable to be misapplied, and which therefore needs elucidation, than the current one that the interest of the majority is the political standard of right and wrong. Taking the word “interest” as synonymous with “ultimate happiness,” in which sense it is qualified with every necessary moral ingredient, the proposition is no doubt true. But taking it in its popular sense, as referring to the immediate augmentation of property and wealth, nothing can be more false”
The Massachusetts Constitution of 1780 affirms that;
“the happiness of a people and the good order and preservation of civil government essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality,”
Article 3 of the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 affirmed that
“religion, morality, and knowledge …. are essential to the happiness of mankind.”
A little clarification on the word “pursuit”. Is had a particular primary meaning at the time of the Declaration.We still use its secondary meaning today when we refer to the pursuit of music, pursuit of medicine, etc. In essence it meant to be ‘occupied with’ as when one diligently pursues a vocation.
So, when the Framers wrote “the pursuit of happiness”they weren’t making reference to a hedonistic, emotional, “feel good” goal … valid and good as those things might be. They were writing about our right to aggressively and diligently pursue well being (happiness) based on bettering humanity’s spiritual and moral condition.
======= =
So, what about question #3, “why does it matter”?
—1) I can’t see into the hearts of men. But, it seems to me there aren’t ten people in our government who are truly committed to bettering our spiritual and moral condition. (Before you tell me ‘that is not government’s responsibility’, then I would ask you to explain why the Framers included it in the first place.)
—2) I can’t see into the hearts of men. But, it seems to me that not 10% of the people in this nation are truly committed to bettering their own spiritual and moral condition. As Hardscrabble Farmer noted in his article “The Big Why”, America is addicted to ‘debauchery and dissolution’, where dreams are shattered, where our ‘pathological descent’ into depravity is only eclipsed by outrageous behavior which no longer surprises us and will soon leave us with ‘nothing left to choose’.
Why does it matter?
Because everyone has myriads of solutions. There may be as many solutions to fix America a there are definitions of happiness. Just to name a few: End the Fed. Get rid of (((certain))) influences. Balance the debt. Get rid of most government. Bring the boys home. Stop illegal immigration. Stop taxing people to death. These are terrific ideas. Truly. But, will passing ten thousand new laws, on top of the ten thousand we already have, actually solve anything? In short, can government fix America … make it great again?
To answer that, I must say that I’m an “origins” kind of thinker; getting to the root cause of the thing, reducing it down to ‘the ultimate question’, if possible.
So, I do have just two more questions. Do we start with the above list, or whatever else you might add to it? I don’t think so. Well, then, …. where DO we start?
Until American leaders, and American people, pursue happiness the way it was meant to be pursued — for the improvement of our spiritual and moral being, both individually and nationally — then, in the long run, absolutely nothing we do will save us from going the way of all empires. And that day, unless change comes very soon, is near at hand.
It starts with me, and you. Spirit matters! Morals matter! It matters much more than most people realize. Unless WE change, NOTHING changes. And that’s why the question matters.
——— –
SOURCES: The primary source for this post is the brief and brilliant article written by Dr. Carol V. Hamilton originally published under the title, “The Surprising Origins and Meaning of the ‘Pursuit of Happiness'”, available in full at the link below;
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/46460
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For me the answer is not overly complicated–simple, humble gratitude.
Most of my prayers begin with, “Lord, thank you so much for ….”
I also feel wonderfully happy after having given my time, effort or resources for assisting another who is struggling. Many mock simple Christian ideals of “doing unto others” or “seek ye first the kingdom of God” but the peace that comes with trying ( often failing) to live a life pleasing to the Creator is when I am happiest.
Philippians 4:8New International Version (NIV)
8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
PS: it is Sunday after all so……….
Preach it!! It is Sunday, after all.
Nice post.
I know many here (perhaps, even you) think I am against Christianity. Maybe, maybe not … I find it useful to keep people guessing … trying to “label” He Who Cannot Be Labeled.
But, one thing I have never done — at least not intentionally — is to mock “simple Christian values”, such as you mentioned.
In fact, we need MORE of it … which is the main point of the article (probably to the surprise of many), and what I believe the Framer’s meant by pursuing happiness.
Interesting question, but as to the poll, meh….Self-reported polls whose methodology is unknown are virtually worthless. As experts in polling and advertising research (like my wife) point out, the results will swing dramatically depending on the phrasing of the question, attitude conveyed by the interviewer and sample.
My answers to the questions are provided Before reading the article (as a test to see how I would answer after reading it).
A1 – Happiness definition varies by age.
A2 – ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’; seems that this was inserted to placate the populace; similar to BS names CONgress gives to some Bills, e.g., The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
Did our gov’t follow that enduring quote when committing genocide on Native Americans? Of course not; it was just plain BS. How did the injuns achieve happiness with a bullet in the head or shuffled off to the “Reservation pens?
A3 – only Q2 matters; it makes one think of the WHY that entire phrase or the specific word happiness was inserted.
“A2 – ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’; seems that this was inserted to placate the populace; similar to BS names CONgress gives …”
I think that’s a tad bit cynical … kind of projecting TODAY’S shitty Congress backwards in time.
However, I do find Jefferson’s first draft interesting —- “… that all men are created equal & independent, —- and that the final draft left out “independent”. One might wonder why that is …. perhaps they were thinking about that pesky Injun problem?
You are very correct…”kind of projecting TODAY’S shitty Congress backwards in time.”
I apologize for that, BUT, when asking the questions above, it becomes a personal issue BEFORE reading the article.
Ahhhh, fuhgeddaboudit, my friend, no need to apologize.
I am GREATLY enjoying ALL the civil commentary …. that it hasn’t turned into a shit-fest. Yet. Lol
1 living life on my own terms by my own values instead of having them dictated to me by someone in powerful positions for their own benefit at the expense of mine.
2 Yes.
3 yes.
To me happiness is being left alone,I do not harm others unless they do not like the way I choose to live,to which my reply is tough/change the channel.
As to exactly what the framers had in mind,not sure,but feel if not harming others by violence/theft ect. get the vibe that happiness meant doing your own thing and the freedom to do it.
Why does it matter,well,without the freedoms to pursue happiness we are prisoners,and,as great as this country is at the moment in many ways we are prisoners under the threat of violence if we do not behave as the powers that want to be agree with.I am happy to say a lot of folks seem to be “pushing back”,how it turns out long run we shall see.
On a side not was unable to comment on sea society article due to net limitations where I am at the moment,wanted to reply to that,”Release The Kracken!”Enjoy the weekend all and decent net connection!
“As to exactly what the framers had in mind,not sure,”
I think I covered the Framer’s intent in the article.
I believe tis open to interpretation(and discussion/debate).
After reading the article……………my answers have changed.
I’ll simply state that the ‘Framers’ used happiness not in the personal sense of each citizen but for the nation as a whole.
Madison (in a letter to James Monroe in 1786) wrote that “happiness” cannot simply be identified with meeting people’s interests, but includes a higher, moral reference
So you are a believer that rights are collective rights and not individual rights?
Anon…..No.
I am not a believer in humans having a ‘right’ to a free education; to free healthcare; to a meaningful job; etc.
Another post -Hans Hooper Libertarianism- I only read part and stopped due to time. Believe it said only ‘property rights’ are relevant ((that may be a very important revelation but I am not smart enuf (truth) to process that further)).
Property rights function under the Rule of Law which allows for a functioning economy.
I believe in the right to defend oneself and justice for the innocent.
I can see that this subject can go a lot further.
So why do you refer to the “nation as a whole” which is the same as the Communists seem to say about a nation in the collective sense of national good in place of individual rights?
Do individuals have a right to pursue their own happiness or is the individual subservient to pursing national interests of happiness (whatever that may be) in place of his own?
Do I misunderstand the original statement?
Thanks, Stucky. You ask rich questions.
I suspect, as you hint, that the term happiness had a different connotation in the colonies in the 1700’s. A better wording might have been “the pursuit of purposeful life.”
Happiness as we understand it now is just self-gratification. We can arrange for or stumble upon happy experiences every day, and those experiences can be enhancing or degrading. As another poster explained recently, even altruism can bring happiness to the hungry self. But these experiences are fleeting. They do not necessarily reflect the state of our soul, which may be miserable or mean. And yes, that is a spiritual issue for sure.
In Christian circles, the possession of “joy” is used to describe .the contented soul, the soul at peace with its creator and the life journey it travels whether or not happy experiences are abundant. This culture is a joy-killer as it preaches happiness as the be-all and end-all. Usually the key to happiness is defined as the acquisition of more things or better things, even a new gender if one desires. The new body can’t fix the sad soul, though.
Harvey Weinstein is an extreme example of a miserable soul chasing happiness. Like Howard Hughes in his old age, he has become a twisted, freaky human being.
JOY..bingo!….in my experience happiness includes suffering which, in the crucible of Love or self-giving, is transmuted through conscious sacrifice for a greater good….thus Joy! (Christianity 101)
There is a fair amount of evidence that the phrase was originally going to be “life, liberty, and property” but they knew even then that they were going to screw people out of their property (via taxes, etc.) so they changed it.
QUESTION 1: — What does “the pursuit of happiness” mean personally, to YOU?
That from the start this government wasn’t sufficiently different from the previous one. The people were protesting taxation without representation by the old government and the new government was not promising that it wouldn’t institute other taxes, just telling people they could pursue happiness, a very weasel-wordy phrase if I ever heard one.
QUESTION 2: — What do you think “the pursuit of happiness” meant to the Framers of the Constitution?
A convenient way for them to get out of promising anything of substance.
QUESTION 3: — Does either question even matter? Why, or why not?
At this point I don’t think either question matters because of the weasel-wordiness of the phrase, it’s not something we can push back on the government with to show it is or is not doing what the framers intended.
“At this point I don’t think either question matters ”
OK, fine.
But if Moral Life no longer matters, then nothing matters.
Then the American experiment will soon surely come to its end.
I wonder why Spirit Life is making such a huge comeback in Russia? What do they know that we don’t?
“Then the American experiment will soon surely come to its end.”
We’re already there. People just haven’t figured it out yet.
They have seen and lived through a regime of officially enforced atheism, so they know what results from denying the spiritual aspects of life.
Stucky- Wrong! Only 10% of Russians attend a church service at least once each month and only 2-4% of Russians have church integrated lives. Notice the graph you posted plainly shows the Russians are not VERY happy, so their spirit life you claim is not evident.
EDIT: Actually, WE must know something they don’t know as 40% of Americans attend church once a week.
“Stucky- Wrong! Only 10% of Russians attend a church ”
Two things, BL.
1. You try to not miss any opportunities to disparage all things Russian. Yes, when I post something nice about Russia … you will counter with something disapproving my/others comment. Not sure about why that is. Hope you explain it sometime.
2. You equate Spirit Life / morals with going to a building called church. I don’t think they are one and the same thing.
Oh Ho Ho Stucky…..Didn’t bother to address that the Russians are only 7% VERY happy……Hhmmm?
Not even in your closing when you said only one person mentioned the chart.
The reason I nail you and others on making these statements about how great is Russia is that it is a complete fabrication yet you keep blathering on and on, “what do they know that we don’t”? I’ll tell you what they know, they KNOW that they want TO BE US, to be like America and that is why they want to come here or in the least to own things that are American. What do you mean by spirit life? You are the biblical expert, usually you are referring to spiritual/biblical subjects. If you want to do a study of a lack of morals, Russia would be a good place to start.
Why, if they have such a wonderful spirit life going on are they not at the top of the chart in the VERY HAPPY zone? Your parents are from old Soviet bloc countries, does this give you some sort of attachment? I do not have more love for the Russians than my own people as fucked up as they may or may not be……..so why do you? In a few cities they have greatly improved opportunity for about 15% of their citizens, I will give them that, it is a start.
While only 7% are VERY happy … the other 93% are just regyoulah happy.
” …they KNOW that they want TO BE US, to be like America ” — BL
Pure Bullshit. And, you know this how? Any foreigners who were to read this blog, or daily headlines on Drudge, or just generally familiar with the mess were in … would be NUTS to want to be like us, imho.
“What do you mean by spirit life?” — BL
Belief in a Higher Power from where we derive our standards of morality.
“If you want to do a study of a lack of morals, Russia would be a good place to start.” — BL
Idiotic comment.
“I do not have more love for the Russians than my own people as fucked up as they may or may not be……..so why do you?” —- BL
I never even hinted that I love Russia more than America. Stop making shit up. I do admire Russia because they have a long cultural history of excellence in very many fields, and they are populated by mostly White People … and they just might be the last great hope against mooslims and the yellow hoard.
Oh YES Stucky…….They are so fukkin excellent they have killed off their own population until there are only 158 MILLION of the poor bastards to cover that huge expanse of land. They have a population deficit by the hands of their own leaders….yeah that’s excellent.
You obviously don’t know much about Russia or Russians if you made the above statements. They DO want to be US.
Oh NOES Stucky……..They don’t want to be like us……right!
ONE more just in case you still don’t have a clue:
Crickets from the Peanut Gallery………Did you see the last video of the American Diner? That is in a city 1000 miles from Moscow with a large Asian population, they even want to be Americans. Admit defeat.
“They are so fukkin excellent they have killed off their own population until there are only 158 MILLION of the poor bastards to cover that huge expanse of land.”
—— BL
Ohmigod!!! You turned into a RAVING LUNATIC!!!
Listen closely, dipshit. They have 158 million because when the Soviet Union collapsed HUGE FUCKING PORTIONS OF TERRITORIES BECAME COUNTRIES.
I’ve told you before, stop living in the 80s, man! This isn’t your father’s Russia.
You are totally wasting your time posting those vids. But, I can see from the pics … a Camaro, a burger joint, music. Wow. You equate a few CONSUMER items with them wanting to be like us?? As if that shit is LIFE??? #ConsumerismMatters Your lunacy is worse than I imagined.
GO RUSSIA!!!!
That absolutely is life, it absolutely is true, you offer no opposition/proof.
We are both lunatics for not going to Russia and opening American style food and attractions. Eleven dollars for that hamburger at Pretty Betty/American Diner. Those restaurants are making thick bank and we are sitting here like a couple of lumps.
They have low population also because of death rates from alcohol/drugs and soon to be BAD AMERICAN FOOD…….that shit will kill you. McD’s is VERY popular in Russia.
I thought the Japs were nutty about all that is American but the Russians are off the hook, and dats da truff.
“That absolutely is life.: —– BL
Consumerism IS life?? Absolutely???
Wow. Have you ever been brainwashed! What more is left to say after that?
Last thing: You want to to get an idea of how Russians view Americans? Go to a Russian-English webiste …. RT, sputnik, russia insider, or many others, even the Saker … and then tell me how much they want to be like us.
RT, sputnik, russia insider are propaganda organs Stucky. Real everyday Russians want Americana. Take consumerism out of American life, watta ya got? Not much.
They want it BAD! You failed to prove what the real Russians want/need to be VERY happy. They ain’t happy, that is why they want to be US.
I don’t see populations of developed countries trying to move to Russia right now. Once Americanized, it could happen. God knows they need population.
“”You failed to prove what the real Russians want/need to blah blah blah ” —– BL
Proof? Yeah, right. No matter what data I can supply, you would find a way to discredit it. That’s the damned truth. Funny thing about “truth” … a person’s mind must be OPEN to receive it. Concerning things Russian, your mind is welded shut. You might not see that, but most everyone else does.
Proof? Do your own homework. I’m in no mood to hold your hand.
do svidaniya
Folks….This is the typical wimp-out from Stucky, he offers nothing to back up his BS. I HAVE done my homework, 40 hours of video in the last two months, endless articles referenced etc., etc.
The above videos I posted are a lot of fun and Sergey Botlykov assures you in every video that it is real with “No Fake and No Bullshit”. I don’t ask Stuck to hold up my end of the argument…NO…I ask that he brings ANYTHING to the table to back his position. So far bupkis. (at least I know how to spell it)
If I posted the real pathetic daily life of the majority in Russia, (a) none of you would take the time to watch and(b) most here don’t really care. Why do you think they are absolutely hammered with alcoholism…..because their lives are so great? Hardly….
And you spelled dasvidanya wrong also.
“There is a fair amount of evidence that the phrase was originally going to be “life, liberty, and property” but they knew even then that they were going to screw people out of their property (via taxes, etc.) so they changed it.”
That doesn’t appear to be correct. From the Source article/link I provide at the end of the article ….
================================ =
In an article entitled “The Pursuit of Happiness,” posted at the Huffington Post July 4, 2007, Daniel Brook summed up what most of us learned in school: “The eighteenth-century British political philosopher John Locke wrote that governments are instituted to secure people’s rights to ‘life, liberty, and property.’ And in 1776, Thomas Jefferson begged to differ. When he penned the Declaration of Independence, ratified on the Fourth of July, he edited out Locke’s right to ‘property’ and substituted his own more broad-minded, distinctly American concept: the right to ‘the pursuit of happiness.’ ”
Familiar as all this sounds, Brook is wrong on three points. John Locke lived from 1634 to 1704, making him a man of the seventeenth century, not the eighteenth. Jefferson did not substitute his “own” phrase. Nor is that concept “distinctly American.”
rest of article at below link
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/46460
At that time the phrase “life, liberty, and property” was a fairly common phrase. As far as I can tell “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was not. So I still see it as them taking the common phrase and changing it for their own purposes.
You have to look at the whole phrase, too: “that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” They were supposedly enumerating rights, yet, the way that you describe their interpretation of “the pursuit of happiness” it is an obligation, not a right. So it still looks to me like they were out to screw the people from the start.
“So it still looks to me like they were out to screw the people from the start.”
You have a pretty dim view of America going all the way to 1776, perhaps further.
You’re not alone. We have a few folks here who share that view. Some even agree with Bush (the dumb one) that the Constitution is nothing but “a goddamned piece of paper”.
Me? I find that to be quite disagreeable with my own constitution, even deplorable. I just can’t go there.
It was better than any other government at the time, but far from perfect. Now it’s completely gone to hell in a handbasket in spite of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Sorry, I’m cranky today so you’re not going to get any happy talk. What does happiness mean to me? Right now it would be an occasional hour or two without pain and a good night’s sleep every week or so. Honestly, I not only can’t remember the last time I got either one, but I can’t even remember what it feels like.
I might understand how you feel … via my mom. She has crippling and painful degenerative bone disease. Opioids keep her alive. Even so, she hasn’t had a completely restful nights sleep in years.
I hope you feel better soon!!
Happiness would be for all the government legislators, judges, taxing authorities, regulators, inspectors, and enforcers to have to meet and attain approval of all of their edicts from the citizens of local communities.
I think Joy is the key . Happiness usually depends on ones emotional state but joy is lasting.
I know for sure the happiest ,most joyful times for me was when I was younger.I had all 4 of my grandparents close by and my mom and dad ,my brother ,my sister in our home.I had security .I had joy and happiness.Death was something out there somewhere but when it arrives it sure can Destory all of the above.At least that is what it did to me.I am thankful I knew joy and happiness for all those years.Now not so much.
“I am thankful I knew joy and happiness for all those years.Now not so much.”
Wow. What a sad, sad comment.
Previously, regarding you heart surgery, I encouraged you to examine you life — to eat better and exercise more.
Looks like that encouragement needs to extend to your Christian walk. When a Christian no longer has joy … something just isn’t clicking. Isn’t that correct?
Hang in there!! Keep seeking. Those who seek, WILL find … says the promise. Right??
I am pretty sure that the answer to all three questions is 42. If you wanted a better answer you should have asked a better question.
Oh and Stucky, that there be some powerful good wordifying.
“I am pretty sure that the answer to all three questions is 42. ”
LOL! Indeed!
I wonder how many people get that reference? (I ain’t giving it away.)
. . . now that’s what I call thinking. . .
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
“We often discuss at length the “life” and especially “liberty” aspects of this most important phrase in our Constitution, and rightfully so.”
Weren’t these words found in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution?
Yup. You are correct!
Pursuit of happiness is what makes people so damn unhappy. They think they know what will make them happy, only to find out when they get it, it does not. Pursuit of happiness simply is the freedom to decide what you want to do with your life. Most people, specially these days, are incapable of making good choices. They have foregone the happiness to be found in family, friends, simple things, etc., and instead have become lost in the sadness of envy, gluttony, and the other deadly sins.
Conan, what is best in life?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc
Cognitive constructs require the acceptance of certain principles, or premises. For now, and for the sake of discussion, let us consider these questions from a Biblical point of view:
Assuming there is a God, and assuming that Man was created in God’s image; then what is inherent to Man, specifically, regarding life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Or rather, what is the essence of Man that separates His existence from other the forms of life on earth?
Plants are alive but they have no emotions or cognitive function.
Animals have emotions, limited cognitive abilities, and even emotional memory, which some define as “soul”.
But what separates Man from all other animals? Could it be the understanding of the concept of Time? Moreover, is the ability to perceive Time what allows Free Will to exist? Could this, in fact, be the spark of divinity that defines God’s “image”? Without the comprehension of beginning, middle, and end, or the Alpha and Omega, could logic, reason, and volition exist? And, without these qualities, could the actuality of opposable thumbs have provided any benefit?
Furthermore, even if God exists outside of Time, would not the comprehension of it be what separates Man from Beast? Therefore, would not volition then, be indicative of direction?
1.) The liberty to ask. The liberty to seek. The liberty to share; to communicate; to debate; to agree; to decide. The liberty to act, create, and produce.
2.) To provide constructs of Law allowing # 1 (above) to transpire.
3.) It could be all that matters. Why? Because within the Biblical construct, or archtype as manifested, Love is all there is. It is also quite possible that outside of that blueprint, and if history is any indicator, there can only be despair, slavery, and the pursuit of death; for individuals and societies alike.
Perhaps “faith” is simply choice. One way, or the other.
Sounds like the beginning of a great essay. Get busy.
Doug
I think it is self-consciousness that sets man apart.
On the fourth day, God set lights in the heavens to “divide the day from night, and to let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years.” This rhythmic circle of time predates the creation of man, so man was set in this framework, although prior to the fall, beginnings and endings may have been non-issues.
Man became self-conscious when pride took hold. Love can transcend pride, but for most it is a long, arduous battle to get anywhere near that experience. I’m a long way off yet, but have been blessed to use the freedom I have been granted to craft a life to try to get there.
Gayle,
Great points, but I often wonder if self-consciousness is redundant? To be conscious would imply one’s understanding of “who” (Adam/Eve), “what” (apple), and “where” (garden). I would think the canvas of time (or at least an understanding of it) would be required for at least one of the latter two, if not both (“when” / free will / choice / direction).
It seems our long, arduous battle is one and the same. It is a daily proposition for me. Progress, but never perfection.
◄ Ecclesiastes 10:2 ►
“The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.”
Happiness is not a destination. It is a journey.
Stucky,
This is less a question of the day and more of an exposition presented for thought. It is a good one too.
Happiness is something I think of frequently. I wonder if I am happy? A silly thing to wonder probably but maybe it is because I have been questioning what is meant when we say the word to begin with.
Your essay should cause more of a pause for thought than anything else. It’s a low comment way of looking at things but then some of the best pieces don’t spark as much discussion as they do introspection.
I think if the ‘progressive’ side of the political equation in our world truly understood the nebulous nature of this term they might be less inclined to such authoritarian behavior. Maybe, just maybe, that’s what the founding fathers wanted us to think about and consider more than anything else?
“Happiness is something I think of frequently.”
Me, too. Don’t we all?
Especially in the marriage relationship. Each spouse wondering if they are (still) making the other happy, and occasionally even asking them the question. And in those cases where a marriage ends, more often than not it’s because one, or both, just weren’t happy anymore.
Hell, I even bought Dalai Lama’s book “The Art of Happiness” … and read it twice, just to be sure I didn’t miss anything!
Thanks for the uplifting words. I was starting to feel bad about myself because our smartest poster here, catfish, said I was “fucking despicable” in another thread. Makes you think and say “hmmm”. You restored my faith … in myself. Lol
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it is not really possible to ‘make’ other people ‘happy’ in the broader sense. You can create moments of joy or contribute to someone’s misery but to make someone happy in the long term and in a general way is pretty much impossible.
People have to think about these things for themselves and decide how they will be on their own.
The older I get the easier it is for me to understand what it is that makes Mrs. Marion happy. By and large, it is simple stuff like listening, a bit of romance and the like. But it’s also about staying out of her way to let her decide who she is and what she wants from her life. She has to have her own inward journey just like I do and the more I mind my own business and let her discover these things for herself the more content she seems and the better our relationship is. As much as marriage is about two people coming together to form a team sometimes it is also about remembering that the other person is a unique and often interesting individual with their own thoughts and perspectives.
As for the Dalai Lama, I’ve never read his book but I guess I’ll have to pick it up now. I was wondering what I was going to read next.
Please watch the Monty Python clip (The French Waiter) from The Meaning of Life linked below… before reading my comment. Otherwise, you will not grasp that 42 sums to 6, which factors to, YES, 2 and 3. Must I remind you that EVERYTHING in this galaxy comes back to 23?
QUESTION 1: — What does “the pursuit of happiness” mean personally, to YOU?
Pursuing Happiness means chasing butterflies without a net. As soon as you catch one with your bare hands, the damage to the scales on its wings is likely to cause it to die.
I can see you there, Stucky, saying WTF is she saying? And, because I’ve been on the road and back again with lots of time to think about life, liberty and pursuing happiness, I’ll try to elaborate. (Sorry, just can’t do it. I just deleted three paragraphs.)
Happiness is fleeting. I’m teaching myself to be contented in the moment I find myself. I realize your moment is very different from the one I experience, but your moment is what you have been given. If the moment causes you pain and sorrow, move into the next moment for an alternate perspective. Id est, happiness or, conversely, unhappiness is all in one’s mind. To me, pursuing happiness is not the means to the end; it is the journey itself. I am happiest when I am not thinking about whether I am happy.
QUESTION 2: — What do you think “the pursuit of happiness” meant to the Framers of the Constitution?
I believe the Framers hoped they could stop paying tribute to a government based on the Divine Right of Kings. I think they perceived a new way of organizing civil society without class or caste. I think the fact that most of them owned slaves was (and continues to be) problematic, but if you understand the true reason for the 3/5 clause, you can see that the Framers hoped for a solution to the issue that did not infringe upon POSTERITY’s ability to pursue happiness, id est, contentment.
QUESTION 3: — Does either question even matter? Why, or why not?
For philosophical musings, the questions are worth trying to answer. As far as whether they matter in a way that makes a difference in what I’m going to do today? Honestly? No.
Refer to the French waiter’s response to being questioned on his meaning of life.
Glad you weighed in. Very nice thoughts. Nothing to disagree with, soooo ….
… let me ask you about your bunnies!
Do you think they are happy knowing …. oh, yes, they DO know, word of your bunnycide proclivities are well known in their community …. that you can, and will, thump them at your whim and pleasure? Hmmm?
I actually had to thump two male rabbits just this week, having put it off for a while. I’m not squeamish about it, but I will admit I don’t like to kill rabbits I’ve named. These two were not named, but since one of them was big sister (I thought) to my one-eyed bunny I named Little Bit (she didn’t live to maturity, suggesting a deformity like a missing eye is terminal, even in a domesticated rabbit).
Since I don’t actually NEED the meat, I hadn’t bred a doe since spring. I decided it was time (you may have seen the wild bunny xrated video RiNS posted for me). Shirley Godbunny is indeed with child from that ten second mating and one other unfilmed session. I will expect the kits the first week of November, although Shirley has been known to carry them an extra week or so. The weather was nice, so the cages occupied by the bucks who are sons of Shirley’s and brothers of my other doe to be emptied for the new kits.
I think the rabbits are content. When I pick them up out of the cage by the scruff of the neck, they don’t fight me. When I put them onto the block to position them for the coming strike to the medulla, they do kick a bit with their strong back legs, but I think it is instinct and not due to pain or a sense of danger. I usually stroke the rabbits back a few times, both as a gesture of thanks and to calm him/her to stillness for the final act. When I bring the ball peen hammer down on the back of the neck, I do it with a force that sends specks of blood out the ears and onto the ground below to stop all heartbeat and brain activity in one stroke.
I have failed to make the connection with the medulla perfectly once or twice. The sad wail of a injured instead of dead rabbit has improved my aim. I am breeding this litter for Christmas pet purposes. My friend’s daughter loves her bunny and when I visited this past spring, it was charming to see the rabbit chasing the cat around their home. I think a few other people I know might like to try having a pet rabbit inside, especially if I can manage to train them to a litter box (in the barn because my dogs are NOT gonna put up with them in the house.) However, if I end up with them around here in January/February? You know where they are gonna end up.
I think it is the greatest irony that BB has posted below me. I actually put some of the meat into small 8 ounce jars to make them single-meal sized for sandwiches or soups. Also, I put them in small jars because I plan to mail a couple of them out for “sampling.” I do NOT intend to sell rabbit meat already processed, nor do I want to sell my rabbits dressed or undressed. If I had to, I would. I don’t have to.
One jar is marked “BB + Quinoa” and the other jar is simply labelled “Rabbit.” As a morbidly clever joke, I saved, cooked and pressure-canned the testicles of the two young bucks along with some Quinoa, celery and garlic. Labelled BB for “Bunny Balls” and as a pun to beebs, (whom I no longer think of as a toad and whom I hope will appreciate the joke as he recovers from surgery) I planned to send the two jars along with another small contribution to a P.O. Box in Kulpsville, Pennsylvania. After chatting with a friend in Oklahoma about the joke, I am thinking I should send two jars of meat and give the bunny balls to my dogs with their dinner one night soon (she was horrified I would send rabbit testicles to a complete stranger with my return address on the box!)
However, I will leave the BB jar sealed for a time (sterile processing keeps meat for years with no problem as long as you keep the jars from extreme temperatures and out of sunlight).
So, without further ado, I present to you my latest culinary experiment at Chubby Bunny Farm.
And yes, it makes me happy to store food for my family. But, it is fleeting, so I’m always searching for additional ways to catch the flutterby.
I may need to edit this… we shall see how appalled TBPers are at my macabre sense of humor.
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By the way… that particular phrase was in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, although the first perhaps implies the second.
But, to be sure, I went and looked at the archived documents online and discovered the Founders were actually concerned with the Purfuit of Happineff.
Maggie,
Just a suggestion, but you may want to consider swapping out your ball peen hammer for something a bit more oblong(ata) like, oh I don’t know ; perhaps a two by four which requires less precision when trying to whack those pesky hard-to-get-at medullas. It is equally as lethal, or so I’m told. Just a thought.
I’m pretty accurate with the hammer, which is labelled, of course, Thumper.
Stucky ,thank you for the encouragement. This herina surgery ( July 28 ) and then open heart surgery a month later ( August 28) has kicked my ass. I’m so weak sometimes it’s hard to get out of bed.This constant pain is hard to cope with and I have let it ruin the joy I did have. It’s hard to be thankful or happy when your body is breaking down. It’s so hard to walk the Christian walk as it is.Even harder now.My doctors tell me it’s going to take a few months to get back normal.God in heaven I pray they are right.
Big Injun Chief ,you are right.I have learned the hard way that happiness and joy are to be found in the simple things.
Family and close friends.I also miss going to church with family when I was younger.I haven’t been to church since my Father died .That was in the mid 90s but I do miss it.
Would you like to go to church one day with me ? I would be honored.I know it would be hard since you live in Australia but it is a nice thought.Take good care of yourself and I really mean it.
Thanks, BB. I mean that, too!
If I lived near you, I might well go with you. Haven’t been in a long time. The hypocrites outnumbering the true Christian folk was just too hard to swallow.
You’re welcome, bb.
Trite as it may sound, it’s been said the night is darkest just before dawn … then The Light arrives.
Did you allow Stan (you know him as Satan) to steal your joy? Or, did you give it away?
These are deep questions, bb. I normally charge fifty bucks for this.
Locke. Two Treatises of Gov. Political society exists for sake of protecting property. (How – at best – naïve. But whether he was a useful idiot, or a sociopath manipulator, the borrowed magic words on the burrowing (like spirochetes) magic docs still reverb in ears of de-verbed citizen-serfs: your actions shall be carved up, thanksgiving turkey style, apportioned greatest good to greatest number of utilitarian drones, per the wise philosopher queens & kings…). “Life, liberty, health, and indolency of body; and the possession of outward things”.
Mason’s dec(k) of rights. “That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.” All wo\men. Not only exceptional americanos.
Franklin, bought & paid for, tax-eating, insider (like a tapeworm is an insider): property, a “creature of society” and thus, he believed that it should be taxed as a way to finance civil society – &, especially, as a way to finance civil socialites like himself.
I don’t care if someone, anyone, is “happy,” or not. If stealing my productivity – chunks of my life – represents “happiness” to such ipso facto less than ones, they’re still POS. Piece Of Shit. Pos•itivist, legal, & “logical.”
Happiness is a side effect. Same as any\all other checkered flags. If it’s raison detre, directly pursued, then your trophy shelf is a hollow monument to misapprehension, miscomprehension, malinvestment. Such trophy-chasers are all too susceptible to “wit” – whatever it takes – throwing how under the bus because have is all that matters. This is animalia. The jungle. Scratch “society,” just barely, & it’s all those shades of green underneath.
Boulder, CO, is socialist(authoritarian), tax-eater, central. But if you like good Italian food, Frasca is one of the best.
Happiness, engineered from on high, is just another false front, false flag, falsie for to facilitate the fucking. Quid pro quo caveat emptor cui bono? If any of this cult of the father stuff is taken at face value – as intended & inculcated – I know what’s in “your” wallet.
Framer’s intent? Supplant the king, who was framing them, much more so – deeper pockets – than the unters, & frame the citizen-serfs for their own supplanting selves “happiness”…that’s it & that’s all. Meet the new bonobo’s, same as the old bonobo’s. And hear\see\speak no evil, monksee, monkdo.
This is no dim view. Optimists got the patent on the dim views – not to mention the neurotoxic msg-loaded dim sum that never ever reconciles the checkbook. Of all the distorting biases that empty traders’ accounts, optimism is the t-rex that eats everything, including itself. Would that it were for every Hamilton a Burr – & that the damn lizard’s extinction be finalized. Instead, it’s an unkillable Phoenix bird of prey, an outsized praying mantis.
So skip the bug hunt. James Cameron, Terminator, 1984 – Bill Paxton meets the T(rexbug) 1st. Cameron again, Aliens, 1986, & Paxton still ain’t learned (Vasquez\Goldstein, my kinda’ chick, was in both series, too) who the designated host\loser is:
It’s a bit, isn’t it?
All I know is it is nearly impossible to be happy if you arent a braindead liberal in this country. Happiness usually means a good career, a nice family, having the chance to provide for them while simultaneously making your mark on the world even if in just some small way. How can you do that when half of what you earn is taken and given to trash that doesnt share your values? And the other half is taken by rich banksters conspiring to devalue your currency by printing utterly massive amounts of it and distributing it amongst themselves. And you have no vote and no say because all your options were pro 3rd world immigration, pro bankster, and pro welfare state. And at any given moment the state can just come in and crush you and not a damn thing would be done about it. Happiness is not made from the dodging of bullets. It seems like thats all anyone is trying to do these days… dodge the bullet.
I think of happiness as being in balance, doing what you should be doing, where you belong, with people of similar nature. I think the new age term is a balanced chi.
We have physical bodies, they should be used well and kept in good health. We have minds that need to solve problems and make sense of our surrounding and our place in them. We have souls that must give and receive love. We have emotions which must be put through their paces regardless of whether they are up or down. We have a relationship with our own conscience- call it our creator- and it must be one based on honesty and self-discipline.
I think most people confuse happiness with joy. One is an integrated and healthful expression of our destiny and the other is an emotion that is transient and based on specific conditions. I can be in pain and tired, hungry and old and still be filled with happiness.
At least I think that’s what they were angling towards.
This is why I always stress nailing down the semantics because I use those terms in exactly the opposite manner. I call happiness the transient opposite extreme of misery while I called Joy the expression of purpose, meaning and contentment and being it peace with one’s own self and surroundings.
I think a lot of the term the pursuit of happiness is just about Liberty. Perhaps it’s the founders being introspective enough to understand that they don’t know the entire purpose of Humanity but they believe that it is up to each individual to determine it what it is for themselves. And to me that’s the truest definition of Liberty.
And this has huge bearing on my comments about Harvey Weinstein on your article I mean I think the guy was addicted to a lot of drugs and power being the most potent…. Drugs are terrific for providing momentary happiness even euphoria and are equally effective at eliminating Joy.
Morality is not an end in itself, it is only the means to an end. It is very little exaggeration to say failure to grasp that statement – with its full implications – is the root cause for all the misery of humanity.
The Buddha apparently said “All human suffering springs from ignorance and attachment”, or at least that’s as close as the Pali translates to English. Let’s assume the translators got that approximately right, then happiness would spring from being enlightened (not ignorant) and un-attached.
(1) The ability to pursue knowledge and non-attachment.
(2) The Framers aren’t here to ask; I would assume the freedom to choose one’s own path individually, not being “subject’ to the whims and vagaries of authority at all times. They just fought a war against the toughest military in the world to get loose from a king; it stands to reason they did not do it to set up another king in his place. Washington took his two terms as President and stood down, warning against political parties as he did. He chose his path, walked it on his own terms and did not allow sentiment, tradition or the clamors of his countrymen to turn him aside. We should do the same now, and reject the Deep State as unfree and undeserving of our support.
(3) It does matter, inasmuch as you choose your own course as decided by your conscience, and reject the propaganda, threats and manipulations of those who would control you to their benefit.
“The great alternative to Nirvana is the creative life. Nirvana is negative freedom, freedom from; the creative life is positive freedom, freedom to.” [emphasis in original]
— Walter Kaufmann, Without Guilt & Justice – From Decidophobia to Autonomy (from Chapter 8, Are Autonomy And Happiness Compatible?)
Note: The entire book is available free online, and very much worth reading.
“They just fought a war against the toughest military in the world to get loose from a king…” – James the wanderer
Not so. The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776. The American Revolutionary War ended in 1783.
(I choose to not read any comments…just spent my day off thinking about this question)
Happiness
Raise your hand if you have time to “pursue” your “happiness:
Meaning of PURSUIT:
1. the action of following or pursuing someone or something.
“the cat crouched in the grass in pursuit of a bird”
synonyms: striving toward, quest after/for, search for;
2. an activity of a specified kind, especially a recreational or athletic one.
“a whole range of leisure pursuits”
To pursue anything requires time. Short or long….pursuit requires time and patience.
Time is freedom….to pursue a thing or an adventure.
A#1: A task completed, a job well done. Helping/treating people. Butchering a pig for food.
Packing that meat myself. Going in on a cow share and seeing what I would be eating.
Meal-prep a week’s worth of lunches and dinners on my only day off. Doing my artwork. Gardening. Enjoying my small little habitat. Making my husband happy when he’s had a bad day (at the slave job). COOKING for 1 or many!
A#2: Freedom from the tyranny of having someone tax you to death! Freedom from people who limited your options if you were hard working. Freedom to own land and hack it out of the wilderness yourself. I won’t go into the slavery thing because every society and culture has done it – not just white folks. Freedom to think and be secure in your own home. Freedom to speak and be with like-minded people. To EXPRESS your thoughts about freedom. (Yes, a great point of attack if you’re not following the herd)
A#3: The question matters if you feel like you are not free. Freedom of the mind or freedom of time (to pursue). “What good is time if you don’t have the freedom to use it.” Slavery is no fun – 9-5 or more jobs that take me away from home. Home is where I am happy. My time for happiness is dictated by jobs and responsibilities. Some responsibilities are fun (cooking, gardening, art, etc.)
To be happy would be to have control over time – I don’t want to have to “kill time” but it continues to happen in my work day. I want to pursue happy times so that they last longer but I must be productive in order to live.
It’s a sad state of being in pursuit of happiness. What I want is more time to spend in happiness and yet I’m a slave to wages, my education/student loan debt; now believing I chose unwisely: a vocation, a method of being in the world. Yet, I chose this path. So now I must adjust what happiness means.
Some questions are unanswerable – this is the human condition whether you believe in a God or not. I have asked myself the question many times: Where would I like to live and with type of people? Being a heathen who believes: I’d rather live with people of faith compared to the more liberal minded. I could pursue a happiness with the faithful.
DocKWill, I am going to have to come up with a decent nickname for you if you hang around longer than EC suggests. He’s been wrong before but he won’t admit it very often.
I made a rather longish comment to answer the questions Stuck posed above before I went to the original source document and discovered the phrase wasn’t in the Constitution but the Declaration! And, in doing so, I made the discovery that it really is the purfuit of happineff we are after.
I’m hanging Maggie….
I’ve been lurking way too long.
My sheep-head wants to belong…only to engage with the 1st community
I’ve found that makes me think. No trolls! YAY!
We have trolls. Hell, at times most of us here ARE trolls. We just troll in a semi-intellectual manner.
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over
Thought I’d something more to say
“Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans” — John Lennon.
Doc- I knew you would find your voice! So, when do you face off with Stucky? That is your dream…right?
BL…not sure I’m worldly equipped…but I have a super thick skin. So in light of that I say “Bring it!.’ Unfortunately my time zone and work schedule…he may not even notice me for a bit.
Doc- Good luck, don’t worry too much about the abuse. Stucky is not as rabid as he once was, heck wommenz been prissing in here for some time now unchallenged. EC is a creampuff and he hardly pins back the ears of a newbie nowdays. LLPOH is your toughest challenge but it will take a while (time zones considered) for you two to tango.
If BL hadn’t changed his moniker from Bea, Stucky would still be nice to him.
My answer may be a little off the wall to some of you. Even as a child, I looked around and observed people out in the world as to how they were successful and what things seemed to cause people to fail.
At an early age, I gathered that patience was a good thing and that good things really do come to those who wait. Also, I pondered the lives of people who stayed married a long time and how they seemed to accumulate more than those who lived a reckless, haphazard life.
I set out into adult life to simply avoid the things that seem to make most people unhappy, (1)divorce, (2) large debt, (3)Not falling for the keep up with the Joneses/you must have the latest (fill in the blank).
The HAPPIEST people I know are happy with what they have, love their families, and generally are not highly educated (yet they are Not ignorant) AND they have a lot of common sense. Some of the wealthiest people I have known had only 8th grade educations. THE wealthiest man , which was a founder of a large branded company that you would all know, only had a high school education and his wife did not go past the seventh grade. That fellow left behind an estate of 21 million and his wife 9 million.
Some of the most unhappy are the people I know with fancy degrees and too much debt. These people want it ALL and they want it NOW, and they are rarely happy.
The biggy in the pursuit of happiness is FREEDOM, that is first and foremost. My idea of heaven here on Earth is much the same as HSF, not looking for Trump Tower lifestyle or vast wealth. The Constitution has allowed us the freedom to pursue what each of us believe will make us happy. If we are limited it is because we limit ourselves.
I also agree with HSF that a balanced life and a balanced body makes for great happiness in life and one does not need the modern artificial lifestyle to achieve that. Does the founder’s idea of freedom to obtain LLPOH still matter….ABSOLUTELY.
I love rich, overeducated, full of shit assholes, describing Happyness to me. Go fuck yourself Mr Rodgers.
Good Heavens, Dennis! Why don’t you try harder to piss someone off?
If you’ve paid any attention to Mr. Roe’s posts, you will notice a pattern of hostility towards anyone who is college educated, doesn’t work with their hands, and so on.
I’m guessing someone with a college degree fucked his girlfriend or something.
Oh, and Dennis: it’s “happiness”.
I checked the source documents. It is HAPPINEFF.
Many of the founders knew their Greek. Aristotle said, “Virtue is for the few.” He also said that virtue is learned and that parents who teach it by example rear children who develop the habit of virtue. What that all means is that a virtuous person lives without conflict simply because he does not choose, but acts. And there you have it: “choiceless awareness” as Krishnamurti called it.
Choice implies conflict, should I do this or that? speaking in a moral sense. Do the right thing by habit and you are no longer in conflict and you live a virtuous life, which is a life where you don’t think of happiness at all. To live virtuously is to be free. Not many of us are, but in a society which Jefferson described in the Declaration we have the freedom necessary to learn virtue if we have not been taught it and it has not become habitual. That would be the pursuit of it. We might discover while we pursue that the end of pursuit is the end of conflict: I am this and want to be that. And when there is no conflict there is just appreciation for everything around us. Appreciation is the gift we humans have been offered.
Emerson said, “If you want to see something new, walk where you walked yesterday.” The observer lives now and is not a collector of memories. The rememberance of happiness is not happiness. The job of discovering ourselves in relationship with things, people, memories, etc. is a lifetime of work, an “infinite shore.” Could be that consciousness survives the body and we get to come back to learn what to do and what not to do. Happiness is not important at all except in the sense of discovering what it is and isn’t. Appreciation is the gift, not happiness.
“To live virtuously is to be free.” —- Bigfoot
+100
78 comments … ONLY 15 thumbs down … half of those for Annie (who was having a “cranky” day) …. the vast majority of posts got up voted …. nobody called anybody an asshole, or such … GREAT discussion …
NIRVANA! Happy happy joy joy!!
However ….
If I may point out a major discrepancy?
I got my ass reamed for killing a nasty varmint, Mr. Racoon. Yet .. yet … Maggie gives a BLOODY blow by blow description of how she MURDERS (she uses the euphemism “thumps”) a beautiful, lovely, and innocent bunny wabbit …… and she gets 7 thumbs up??
RAAYCISS!!!!
The two featured articles this morning …
My question about happiness.
The other about depravity and the end of this empire.
Wow. That’s interesting. Odd. Spooky. Coincidental. Foreboding. Certainly not something to be happy about. Or, maybe it is?
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This bunny is in jars.
I pressure canned his testicles and heart with some celery and quinoa. That is a bit Hannibal Lecterish isn’t it?
This is for you and EC. (Stucky, I’m talking to you! I even put you into the lyrics.)
Look if you will at the picture
Of me standing next to a tree
Checking to see if the deer have eaten
The apples I left them for free
Stucky can you see this?
When Bunnies Cry
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Dream if you can a pasture
An ocean of fescue in bloom
Rabbits breeding in cages
Adding the meat
When they eat just to feed me
How could I just leave them caged up?
Alone in a world that’s so cold? (So cold)
Maybe I’m just too demanding
Maybe I’m just like my father too bold
Maybe you’re just like my mother
She was the one that always cried
Why should they scream to each other
This is what it sounds like
When bunnies cry
Touch if you will their bellies
Feel how they tremble inside
Stuck tried to save the bunnies by griping
That only wounds them
Even bunnies have pride
How could I just leave them caged up?
Alone in a world that’s so cold? (So cold)
Maybe I’m just too demanding
Maybe I’m just like my father too bold
Maybe Stuck’s just like my mother
She was the one that always cried
Why should we scream at each other
This is what it sounds like
When bunnies cry
Oooh, oooh, oooh, oooh,
when bunnies cry
When bunnies cry
When bunnies cry (bunnies cry, bunnies cry)
When bunnies cry (bunnies cry, bunnies cry)
Hilarious, Maggie. Truly.
And you are closer to that coveted hundred comment mark. The one Admin rewards with a C-note.
Maggie, please, no more descriptions of bunny deaths.
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Joyce Kilmer. 1886–1918
Trees
I THINK that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth’s flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day, 5
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
100. Right here. Right now. Check’s in the mail, right?
This thread is winding down, maybe even before it gets to 100. Not a summary, just a couple observations.
1. A bit surprised there was only one comment on that “very happy” chart, and America’s relatively low placement on it …. and the high placement for Socialist countries.
2. Likewise, that Nat Geo quote about possibly the happiest man on earth … who sleeps 8 hours a day, socializes 6 hours a day, and works “no more” than 40 hours a week …. read, probably a whole lot less than that. Bastard! Lol
3. Not many outrightly agree with me and George Washington that “happiness and moral duty are inseparably linked”. Most define it under the Greek “hedonia” platform.
And that’s great! The question/article wasn’t meant to change opinions … but, merely to stimulate discussion … and I loved ALL the comments!
Hello Stuck,
Fuck the framers… Country full of brainwashed idiots, obedient to evil things…
One-eyed Ed
Would you rather live in NK and bow down to dear leader?
BL…. You are an effette charlatan… Rather live in NK is your response…The framers were a bunch of elitist pigs…like the ones in the white house and the boardrooms
One eyed Ed
I agree 110% with you that the framers were elitists and kudos for proper description of those who occupy the WH. So what do you personally find is a better replacement for our form of government? Serious question, not giving you the business.