Guest Post by The Zman
One of the stranger developments in the last twenty years has been the slow semi-legalization of marijuana. Some states have gone down the “medical marijuana” road while others have legalized it. Federal law has not changed, with regards to marijuana, but the enforcement has changed. In theory this should result in an irreconcilable conflict, but so far the Feds have cooperated with the states to avoid problems. Jeff Sessions has indicated that’s about to change, but a year in and there has been no change.
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One interesting side effect of legalization is there are now for-profit businesses catering to potheads. That means there is a lobbying group representing their interests in state capitals and in Washington. The Sessions move to re-impose Federal law on states that have legalized weed, may mean Congress moves to fix the law. Regardless of how you feel about legalizing drugs, these sorts of conflicts are intolerable. The most likely solution is to get the Feds out of the retail side of drugs, and leave them to do interdiction.
A consequence of this process that no one has considered is the precedent. Usually, Federal law forces changes in state laws. That’s been the way Progressives have undermined personal liberty and imposed all sorts of madness on the people. The most recent example is homosexual marriage. In this case, states have eroded the legitimacy of the Federal government and may force the Feds to follow the lead of states. The Left is trying something similar with immigration. It’s a defense in depth strategy.
There’s been enough time to evaluate the claims from libertarians about crime and drug prohibition. Initially, Colorado experienced a slight drop in crime, but then they experienced a sharp uptick in crime. As is always the case, the potheads will say the rise in crime is unrelated, but the prohibitionists will counter with the same point about the initial drop in crime. The reality is, drug prohibition was never a factor in street crime. A drug taker is not going to alter his behavior, just because he can buy his drugs from a legal retailer.
Similarly, the administrative costs of prohibition will never change, even with legalization, for the simple reason government never shrinks. We could wipe all of the laws off the books tomorrow, meaning nothing is illegal, and we would still have the same number of cops, judges, lawyers, a prison guards. It’s one of the many things libertarians don’t understand about society. Government does not grow because it is attempting to meet a need. Government grows because it can. Government never needs a reason.
The movement to legalize marijuana is providing a real world test of claims about habitual use of cannabis. We now have lots of people consuming THC through a range of methods. Smoking anything will have deleterious effects on cardiovascular health, but what about eating THC-lace gummy bears? Of course, legalization means a much wider range of users too. While getting weed has not been difficult for a long time, it still meant dealing with criminals and some people fear that more than effects of drug taking.
This very large genetic study links habitual marijuana use with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. A study in New Zealand a few years ago showed that people who started smoking marijuana heavily in their teens and had an ongoing marijuana use disorder lost an average of 8 IQ points between ages 13 and 38. The National Institutes of Health are doing a major longitudinal study, tracking a large sample of young Americans from late childhood to early adulthood to track the effects of long term marijuana use.
We could very well discover that drug legalization is a disaster for public health. People have instinctively believed that taking mind altering drugs is bad for a person in the long run. There’s a reason that every culture has had rules about things like alcohol. People may not have understood the biology of these substances, but they assumed that anything that alters perception should be used in moderation. As we know with alcohol, legalization means moderation is impossible to enforce. We have a lot of drunks.
We also have a lot of ways of dealing with drunks. Where the written law ends, the unwritten laws begin. American society has lots of unwritten rules for mitigating the effects of legal alcohol. Those unwritten rules have not yet materialized with regards to legalized weed. Can an employer refuse to hire someone who is a casual user of cannabis? Can we develop a test to know if someone is too impaired to operate a motor vehicle? If marijuana legalization is going to go forward, the culture will change in response.
Another wrinkle is that no society has ever had to confront the immediate, widespread distribution of mind altering drugs. Imagine lots of smart chemists getting into the synthetic drug business and Amazon taking over the logistics from the ghetto rats. That’s been the result in Colorado, where clever marketers and creative inventors have produced a wide range of THC delivery vehicles. Imagine what happens when Big Pharma gets into the business. We could quickly be swamped with drugs and drug takers.
None of this argues for or against legalization. At present time, there is no right answer on that question. It is a question of trade-offs. Societies normally have work through these by trial and error. It is what federalism is supposed to do in America. Fifty states can sort through the issues, learning from one another until arriving at a regime that works for their particular situation. Right now, the public strongly favors legalization, so that’s the way to bet. For Washington, this is an easy one. It means doing less to get more votes.
I think HSF might agree with me on this one.
It. Is. A. Plant. If you want to grow it and eat it, smoke it or distill it into resin to treat infections and scars, it is NONE of the government’s business.
Now, if you drive a car and are “impaired” you are an idiot and deserve to be fined or punished fro threatening OTHER lives.
It. Is. A. Plant.
Almost all opioids are plants as well along with cocaine and many of the psychoactive drugs such as mescaline.
So,they also should all be legal,just don’t endanger others give to kids in halloween candy ect.I have no business telling others what they may injest,and before anyone brings up medical costs ect. fine,then also no fat people/extreme sports including skiing/no for booze issues ect,actually,no across the board,someone eleses medical expenses should not be my issue or take money from me.
End the insanity of the cop/court/prison/drug cartels,legalize it all!
Years ago William F. Buckley had Dr. Thomas Szaz as a guest on his TV show. Dr. Szaz left Buckley sputtering and stuttering when he stated that all drugs should be legal, with the caveat that the public be made fully aware of the potential dangers of their use.
Except that Buckley failed in simple logic and a glaring omission in this case. If cocaine meth, heroin etc are legal, it still doesn’t make them FREE.
Hopeless drug addicts will still need their fix and if it was legal, there would most likely be a hell of a lot more addicts. A crackhead or heroin junkie will slit their grandma’s throat for $20 when they are desperate for a hit. Legalizing hardcore addictive drugs would cause mortality and crime to skyrocket– anyone who would argue against this fact is being disingenuous or deliberately obtuse.
Drug addiction ( not talking pot/ marijuana) causes FAR MORE than just the “whatever they want to do with their bodies” shortsighted crap that is espoused.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Here are 4 articles about Portugal, where they decriminalized all drugs in 2001.
Just like concealed carry in the US, everyone said it would be a disaster.
Instead, it’s been a huge success.
2012
http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7
2015
https://mises.org/library/portugal%E2%80%99s-experiment-drug-decriminalization-has-been-success
2017
https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.WQChIz4pQ
2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html
Would I still have to pay for their ebt cards, disability, rehab, and narcan? If so, drug users are a different sorta cartel. Big government needs to go. I don’t care what people do as long as I’m not forced to pay for.
Exactly. None of them the government’s business.
Big Pharma simply refines the addiction, minimizes the benefit and pays off Congress Critters to support their industry AND, in the case of heroin? They get military soldiers to guard their poppy fields.
This government needs to fall. It really does and most of us know it whether it is the overreach in our personal beliefs in God/Jesus/Spaghetti monsters or listening and recording our every word in case they need to build a case against us, US being the LEGAL citizens of this country. I would hate for any Congress Critter to get lost out here in these woods and get dis”membered”.
Extracting the psychoactive compounds and refining them through chemical processes in order to get to a form that can be injected into the blood stream kind of renders your “it’s just a plant” argument moot. Either way it isn’t really a question of using a substance for whatever reason people may decide, it’s whether or not you have the RIGHT to do what you want with your own mind and body or if you must be granted or denied the privilege by the State.
The concept of outlawing plants is beyond absurd. Every single argument put forward in support of prohibition rests on some people abusing the plant. Food can kill you but we don’t outlaw it because some people choose to become morbidly obese. It is a nonsensical position.
It all comes down to this- either you or the state is in control of your life and destiny. If you may not make basic decisions about your own body then you have no rights. That’s what this is really about.
Heroin … comes from just a plant.
Cocaine … comes from just a plant.
Hemlock …. is just a plant.
Just. A. Plant. Is. Not. A. Strong. Argument.
Marijuana makes hemp, and hemp makes rope. We’re going to need TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ACRES to make enough rope to hang all the deserving government denizens.
Remember to boil the rope first.
Opium comes from a plant. Heroin comes – in the experience created & imposed by prohibitionist busybodies – mostly from prohibiting opium. Much the same for coca.
Know your prerogatives is good advice, argument. Mind your own business is a better argument, still. Plants are much better at both than most people are.
I don’t smoke it and don’t care if someone else smokes it or doesn’t. Just don’t care.
Maybe the idea of extracts of some kind for medicinal uses would be a simple solution. However govt never goes for simple, common-sense solutions.
And I’m sure you don’t mind supporting, through your taxes, those that can no longer support themselves and their families since they smoke it.
How about we do not excepting thru charities/personal giving not support any one elses families/businesses ect?
What part of it is a seed and you can grow it do you not understand?
We do not have a say in who the State decides to support on our tax dollars for whatever reason they require it. If you think that marijuana creates the circumstances that allows for people to be shiftless and indolent then you don’t much about people.
I mind VERY MUCH supporting, through being robbed at gun point by the government, those that can no longer support themselves and their families since they smoke it. I also MIND VERY MUCH supporting people through Obamacare that eat so much crap that they are insulin intolerant and morbidly obese. BUT, I am not in favor of prohibition of food that makes you fat, NOR am I in favor of prohibition of a plant. Why? Because each sentient human on this earth can make choices, some good, some bad, but I will advocate for that human to have the right of dominion over their own body, no matter what. However, with each choice, there comes a consequence, and that person must suffer (or enjoy) that consequence ON THEIR OWN.
As was stated above, charities and other PRIVATE organizations have been around for a long time to deal with these issues. We DO NOT NEED taxes taken from you under force to support ANYONE. Not through Obamacare, OR through any other “programs” whose only purpose is to enrich those connected, while at the same time stealing and oppressing everyone else. Drug prohibition has resulted in the same predictable results as Alcohol prohibition. When there is a high mark up black market in anything, you are going to get trouble. The only difference between a drug cartel leader, and a “legitimate” pharma drug dealer, is that one uses lawyers and lobbyists, the other uses guns and intimidation. Both are simply turf wars. Criminals will always be criminals. Same as it ever was.
Regarding the “problems” of society – let me say this as clear as I can – DON’T CARE. I don’t. Why? Because I, you and everyone else cannot make someone change their behavior. The nanny state has been trying this for a long, long time, and the results are ALWAYS the same. What was Albert Einstein credited as saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? The only thing proven to change behavior is consequences of actions. Kill someone, go to prison forever or be hung. Leverage your bank too much, go out of business. Take too much cocaine, die. Eat too much crap, die of heart attack, stroke, diabetes. And on and on. Ah, but the modern liberal and state drone STILL has not learned. One day, people will STOP trying to tell other people what to do, and mind their own Goddamn business.
I agree with you about let people experience the consequences of their decisions…whether good or bad. Liberals think we should be everyone’s Mommy.
When the state takes care of people, then they have no incentive to improve themselves.
This is also true at a personal level. It happened and is happening in my family. My mother is a hard-core, emotionally-weak enabler of my brother who has no self discipline. She is constantly rescuing him instead of letting him be a mature adult (he is in his 60s, and she is still doing this).
“Muh long-term effect on society!”
Please. I love it when sophists tell us all about delusional libertarians.
What do you get with abuse of alcohol early in life followed by long-term abuse of the same throughout life? Are any of the problems you’ve mentioned related to the escalation of the “war on drugs”? Perhaps you’d do better to first take care of yourself, your family, and then others (in that order) and stop worrying about thug turf wars. Because if people did that instead of masturbating over the “drug problem” (and other self-created statist dilemmas) we’d all be better off–and probably actually have a “society” worth saving.
Lot of statist thugs when it comes to marijuana on this site. I guess it never crossed their minds that pot like alcohol (which is 100 times worse and legal) can be used in a disciplined responsible manner. Many of my friends smoke pot on the weekends and lead productive lives. You who want everyone who smokes pot locked up, don’t come back here spouting nonsense that you believe in personal liberty, because you don’t.
In the name of the Aeon Sophia, archons out,
Diogenes
Note the statists all ignore the Portugal precedent.
Portugal chose to treat drug use / addiction as a medical problem and not a crime problem. So they legalized nearly every “recreational pharmaceutical” in 2001. Yep, 17 years ago and Portugal has not devolved into Mad Max on steroids. Crime is down. Drug use is down.
Most statists prefer to ignore things that do not fit their preconceptions.
Legalized? You mean decriminalize the use but not the sale or smuggling of don’t you? I don’t think you can go into Portugese pharmacy and order an ounce of cocaine or heroin.
Some people do not believe in self ownership or personal freedom, but sadly do believe in the lies of “Reefer Madness.”
The Feds are going to get into this because it is a ‘drug’ and an ‘intoxicant’ so, besides the DoJ, the FDA, BATF, Department of Agriculture, HHS, IRS and even the Secret Service ( counterfeit cash since even legal sales seem to be in cash) all have a stake in the distribution of it.
Right now there is no control over dosage. As with any drug the effects depend on dosage. I can’t buy a bottle of booze without a label advising me of its alcohol content same with pain killers and other drugs. I stopped smoking marijuana decades ago because it became so strong a few tokes from a bong would leave me stoned all day and if I had a few drinks too I was a basket case.
The good side of legalizing the stuff is it will deprive petty criminals of a source of income dealing it as its sale and distribution become professionalized. Dindus will be forced to sell heroin and cocaine and get longer prison sentences as a result.
Complicated issue & the lines are blurred. Not sure what the best policy would be.
From 40 years of experiences, a few observations.
1. Stuff available now is more potent than it was back in the day.
2. Extracting the oils renders the ability to ingest it in other ways than puffing, but I can remember a time when hash oil was around, and that was a multiplier of the buzz effects.
3. Where do we draw the line on who is allowed, and when? Do you want a metro train engineer or airline pilots to be allowed to use it?
4. Does casual use on personal time affect public safety job performance days later when said people with responsibility in their job return to work?
5. Pot heads by and large generally speaking aren’t much of a threat to others if they don’t work in public where their use affects others. A stoner doesn’t usually get violent when high.
Alcoholics? Of course. Far too much. Signs of that all around us.
6. Functional alcoholics are all around us. I suspect functional pot heads are, too.
7. Tax revenue for struggling municipalities is huge, in the argument for legalization.
8. The effects of alcohol wear off in 1-2 days, but for blood analysis, I read somewhere that canabanoid traces stay in a human blood stream, detectable for up to 30 days, if correct.
So, at what point, do the risky job potheads get to return to work? i.e., when is lucidity back?
9. With alcohol, and suspicion of DUI, they make you blow for BAC, and enforcement is becoming more and more strict, to try and prevent alcohol related deaths causes by users.
10. I don’t see too many police blotters citing pot heads breaking into homes & businesses to steal to support their habit. Other habits like crack, meth, or heroin? You betcha.
11. On potency, I had the experience of consuming a small corner of a brownie; no bigger than the size of someone’s pinky fingernail. It hit me like a boxers roundhouse, and I was mentally incapacitated for a few hours, with a very uncomfortable buzz. Mind altering? Uhhh, YEAHH.
Way different than getting a bit loopy from alcohol. If I would have had a functional responsibility to perform during that, my judgement was severely impaired.
Now, when you’re at home, or are a passenger in a car, or away camping, posing no threat to others, I’m all for letting people imbibe to their hearts content.
But also, don’t want to see stoners hanging around the dispensaries in ganja induced stupors, panhandling and acting like homeless drunks pissing and littering, etc.
On the enforcement when out in public, driving, or operating machinery…
Where does the ganja fit into that narrative? “His eyes are glassy, he has slurred speech, and he asked if I had any donuts left, your honor. We therefore judged him to be stoned on pot when we found him asleep at a green light in traffic during routine patrol.”
Not sure what all the answers are. But, on Lucidity, well, stoners like their music, for sure.
What’s with that guy’s hair? I hear strains of Pink Floyd’s “Comfortably Numb”
Strains? They stole the song.
Whoa Dude, like that’s too many points for me to absorb! Like, give it a break man, like all I want to do is disappear for a little bit from reality. I mean like, so what if it’s not measurable like alcohol? So what if it’s difficult to measure as it fills up my head in a fog, I like it! It’s like my life man and if I want to float through life careless and free, well dude, it’s like my choice. Just try to stay off the road when I’m driving, cause you know the lawyers are going to have a field day proving I was stoned, or not. So if I run into you, like wow man, sorry dude. Bad karma on me.
Dudes, your bringing me down! I haven’t had such negative vibes since that guy who sold me a bag of Oregano. Lighten up.
Okay, everyone seems to be wearing their serious face today, so I’ll explain my point with out the help of Spicolli.
To start, there is a point where an alcoholic becomes so drunk he/she should not be behind the wheel. Granted, the limits are getting ridiculously low, but that’s for the car guy to write about.
Anyway, can you agree there is a point where one is too stoned to drive? If so, how do you measure that point? To go further, that individual has just caused an accident that puts you in the hospital; how do you prove his choice to get stoned put you in the hospital? Will your evidence stand up against the defense lawyer (he was a rich kid) who will try to shoot holes in your toxicology report. So, your car is totaled, your possibly disabled for life and the citizen who likes to get high gets off Scott free, with the possibility of doing time if he does this three or four more times and gets caught.
How do you resolve this?
I would appreciate the ?? to critique my poor imitation, or explain where I’m wrong. Thanks!
You either own your own body and can put into it, do with it, whatever you wish (so long as you do not harm another or their property), or your body is NOT YOUR OWN – ie. you are a SLAVE of the government that by default, claims ownership of your person.
Sorry, none of any of these points have any other bearing than the critical importance of re-establishing self-ownership and the 100% absolute opposition to slavery by government or anyone else.
Amen. I had an appointment with a doctor at the VA this week and I told him that my pressure headaches are almost completely eliminated by using less than a gram of cannabis resin massaged into the temples, so I have quit using any of the pain medications at all. By the way, at one time, I was prescribed 120 Norco pills MONTHLY, though that has been a couple years ago. Holy SHITE… that was a LOT of those pills.
Anyway, the doctor “cautioned” me that if I were to test positive for marijuana, the VA could refuse to treat me for my service-connected issues. Who gives a shit? They haven’t really helped with any situation except my cataracts and that was done by a private doctor, having been granted Veteran’s Choice status.
Anyway, I’m neither addicted to the opiates nor am I a Pot Head. I am also in Missouri and so, I depend upon the kindness of old military comrades in various locations to grow and distill the oil for me. Wherever they may be.
Now, as for the state of Missouri? An interesting exception to the national war on painkillers. Apparently, Governor Greitens has some ties to Big Pharma (doesn’t surprise me… a military man comes home from the Middle East to become Governor) So, he refuses to allow the state to join in the national database tracking illicit prescriptions. I think there are other regional congress critters also in Big Pharma’s pockets (small letters… not as VIP as the national Congress Critters). But, then, Greitens is caught trying to blackmail his former mistress with nude photos of HIMSELF???
Bizarre. If anyone in Missouri is a Pot Head, it might be Greitens.
What he said.
Expand on that if you could, HSF. Your take on stuff is always interesting.
The bullet points just listed a few of the considerations in the debate.
Maybe a couple of those points aren’t relevant to the argument. Just random thoughts.
I don’t have a hard stance, where it’s either full freedom or controlled in varying degrees.
Agreed, Maggie, it’s a plant, that can have it’s role, alleviating pain, or just to enjoy it’s effects. People should be allowed to use anything in their own circumstances, for their own body, without legal penalties or excessive taxation, imo, too.
Most of us on the platform are for freedom to do as we please, with the less gov. interference and rules the better.
Total freedom to do what we please comes with it a certain responsibility to know when it’s unwise to be under the influence of anything that could potentially cause harm to others.
That’s where lines get blurred for me. Not all users do so with trustworthy intelligence.
We all have seen people do some incredibly stupid things while under the influence.
Read Unsure’s comments, Mr. Liberty.
You seriously want to argue that every advocate of total freedom to do whatever they want have never put other people’s lives in jeopardy or caused damage?
Please. Tell me what we do about that.
Wait for the damage, and then prosecute? And to what degree?
Small consolation, if a freedom lover accidentally kills a relative of yours while under the influence of anything, because he made serious mistakes while impaired.
The starting point still stands…it’s complicated, and more than a few are Unsure what’s best.
The argument for total liberty on this
is subject to the law of some occasional unintended consequences.
If you see a way to address a few of the more serious consequences, with effective ways to reduce or minimize them, I’m all ears.
“Tell me what we do about that.”
Abandon hope (good idea in any event), all ye who enter here: we•we•weehawken the cheap beads & rotgut of materialism livin’…..
I’d say “live with it” except if you could, you would. Utopia, guarantees, security – all illusions borne of neurotic graspiness. Most would trade liberty for security w\o blinkin’ a myopic astigmatic eye.
‘I’m not afraid of death; I just don’t want to be there when it happens.’ ~ Woody Allen
No harm, no foul…but nobody gets out alive.
Damn Straight!
My personal experience is that I drank and used pot to excess for too long but got sober almost 25 years ago; my story is mine and reflects on no other person. Most people who drink don’t develop a problem with it and the same may be true for smoking dope, I don’t know. I never think about drinking but still think about smoking from time to time so I wonder about the argument that pot is not addictive. None the less, I think the less government is involved the better we all are and should a person choose to smoke, it is their business. I still wonder what we will do about impaired driving and people coming to work stoned?
I don’t view the struggle between the Feds and the states as a necessarily bad thing; isn’t this what the Union was supposed to be about? Whether or not pot will become legal nationally or remain so on a state by state basis remains to be seen and should be interesting to watch; regardless of the outcome, I think the argument over the issue is more important than the issue itself. I think sometimes we are all a bit of a hypocrite, we may bemoan the fact that a vote against gay marriage in a state is overturned by a judge but when a state votes to legalize marijuana we are against it; either the people’s voice and vote means something or it doesn’t, we can’t have it both ways.
“I still wonder what we will do about impaired driving and people coming to work stoned?” – uh, FIRE THEM. That is what private employers used to be allowed to do when an employee was incompetent or incapable of performing the job they were hired to do. That used to be called personal responsibility prior to everything being labelled a “disease”.
MAH, I agree with you completely that an employer should have the right to fire someone coming to work loaded and this is what should be done perhaps after one warning. As far as the driving goes, I don’t know if there are tests to determine THC levels, so even though a street sobriety test may be able to get an impaired driver off the streets, I don’t know how criminal prosecution would play out. I agree with you about the disease bullshit, I feel this was pushed by treatment centers and hospitals to force insurance companies to pay for treatment.
Legalize it. Tax the crap out of it. Then invade another country.
Legalize it all,and no,make your own whether pot/booze/tobacco ect. and starve the beast!Cash addicted do gooder pols need to be weaned off the money!
The concept of restoring freedom and then imposing a harsh penalty in order to maintain that freedom is akin to giving the slave a chance to gain his freedom, but ONLY if he continues to pay a portion of his future wages to his old master to maintain his freedom.
SCREW TAXATION. JUST RESTORE FREEDOM!!!
It seems that the cost for the legal stuff (including the tax) is about the same as the black market prices when it was kicked off, at least in my locale. So that argument doesn’t really fly. They tax every thing else, so why should this be an exception? Not saying I like paying taxes just saying that’s the way gooberment does things.
Indeed, the equivalent costs ARE the point. The black market and all of its associated crime will NEVER go away until freedom is restored. If normal sales tax on broccoli (another plant) is 5%, why should it be 3 times that for cannabis??? These are not sales taxes being applied, but SIN taxes that are simply a means to enhance government revenue without justification (other than this is their way to ALLOW some modicum of freedom to be restored). The PEOPLE in WA, CO, CA, etc. are the ones who voted for this crap. These initiatives are not government legislation. There is a prevailing belief that freedom can ONLY come at a high taxation rate and until the people wake up and demand freedom….period….the slavery will continue.
There is a way that seems right to man but the end is death, Prov 14:12. One of the Rules of Life telling us we need to think. For many people, if it feels good do it is as far as they want to think. The subject is complex since every sin and drug is different; but the bottom line is: we only have so many hours on Earth, are we going to use them pleasing God or Satan? A doped up Dope is pleasing to Satan but offensive to God and will contribute to a big difference at God’s final accounting.
I spend my life as I see fit,lately includes giving up 4 months of my life(am on a well earned break,probably 6 months total) to help me mum with major knee surgery/helping other family and friends/working/and enjoying lifes pleasures which in past included drug useage.I really do not give a rats ass whether satan or god approve/disapprove,my life,not theirs.
You want to know why lot is becoming legal? Freedom ringing? Doubtful. My best guess is http://naturalsociety.com/monsanto-unleash-gmo-marijuana/ Big pharma wins again.
I am not sure I really have a dog in this hunt because I pretty much think someone should just be allowed to decide what they want to eat and drink and smoke or even inject as long as they are doing it on their own time and without imposing that behavior upon others. Now, if they have no means to acquire the items they want to eat and drink and inject or smoke, then they have no “right” to have items they can’t buy, find legally, or grow.
Now, would I risk a RICO suit to try and grow something illicitly here? Um, no. But, I do know a few people who have experimented with the plant a bit and tell me it isn’t really worth the cost of the equipment necessary; I’ll take their word for it since spending a lifetime in the military industrial complex makes me gun-shy of any illicit substance beyond aspirin and alcohol. If the state legalizes medical or recreational, I’ll certainly give it a try, but we decided we didn’t want much to do with anyone connected to federal agencies out here; why would we invite them in?
(By “invite them in” I am assuming one must “register” one’s cloned plants purchased at a state government regulated greenhouse.)
So, if marijuana use is made “legal” on a nationwide level, I assume it will only be after some sort of Monsanto-like corporation arises to dominate the genetic modification of cannabis and refines the extraction process in order to exploit any addictive potential for market purpose. Then, as indicated above, the delivery system will be the most expensive piece of the puzzle, with bureaucrats regulating every step of the process.
There is actually more evidence for health benefits from hemp and hemp seed oil, I believe, which are non-narcotic regarding THC, though other cannabinoids are present. But, again, one can’t experiment with them if one can’t grow them.
So, while I think it is a plant and so, like any herbivore, people should decide for themselves if they want to use the plant for whatever reason. But, I don’t think they have a RIGHT to someone else’s plant if they, like the little red hen’s piggish pals and lazy goats who got no bread!, refuse to help grow their own.
Marriage, homosexual or not, imposes no madness upon me. But I’m an actual person, as opposed the flimsy fictional con•struction “the people.” Not to mention “the libertarians” & your lump sum mischaracterization.
“Public health” – same authoritarian rot.
The tragedy of the commons is the commons…& that bilge flows out of the commonsenselessness of the hivemind, borg, matrix, institutionalized dura•cellies who spend their life sentences buggering each other.
“…anything that alters perception should be used in moderation.” Evidence is ample that perception has more or less continuously been moderated to a standstill. By busybodies, like this author. I have no drunks. And there is no “we.” But there are vast supplies of Capones, on “both sides” of the wobbling we•ebles. Gangsters are commons, commons are gangsters, & would it were for every Hamilton a Burr, & Copperhead Roads were less rare.
For the record, the proper way for stoners or drunks to order pizza is to call a pizza place that’s not Dominoes and as soon as they answer the phone, you yell “Yo, Donimo?!” Drunks tend to be better at this. Also, demand extra cheese but object to paying extra for it. If you’re black, you must order “beef” (hamburger), and without regard to your race or ethnicity, if you order sausage, it should be pronounced “sossich”. Black people should also order orange soda.
I live in CO, and guarantee Gov’t, Big Ag & Big Pharma are watching the cash cow that is legalization of pot here. Matter of time before it’s legalized nationwide and Big Pot begins. You’ll have Big Ag planting whole fields in pot; John Deere and CAT mfg “pot harvestors”; pot commodity on Chicago Board; and RJR or Big Pharma selling pot cigs or pot candy at every convenience store in town. Of course Gov’t will tax the crap out of it and use it for School Ed or POPO enforcement. Then you’ll have some state attorney general find in some study that it’s health effects are detrimental and sue the crap out Big Pot in order to balance a budget.
I heard Phillip Morris and other big tobacco companies were buying tracts of land in Colorado and hiring lots of chemical and pharmacological engineers.
I was in Turkey from 74-76. It was not known for tolerant drug laws. The movie Midnight Express came out in 1978 and detailed imprisonment in Turkish jail of an American for hashish possession. We were warned if you are imprisoned in Turkey, you have to depend on friends and family to provide your food. After the O6 dental surgeon attended to an in-country American with a bad tooth at an Turkish island prison for a drug offense, the prisoner miraculously escaped a week later. He also once called in four of the 03’s under his command on his carpet and gave us a stern warning about the dangers of using local medicinal cures. It seems someone had narc’d.
The only other 03 dental officer not present was eventually busted for shop lifting from the post exchange….
As strict as the laws were, it was well known most of the people in villages all across the country would have sticky hash in their ‘medicine’ cabinets.
It was known for many medicinal benefits. The tradition of using the APO US mail to send home packages of contraband continued as had been the custom in Viet Nam. Some on a large scale, like the GS 3-13 shipping out of Istanbul that became the basis of the Kaiser Söze myth and the boat with no drugs on it. They were tales of sending certain men out in US mail bags to avoid apprehension by locals.
Don’t let you know whosie hear you discussing the Eyeserkay Oaziesay Ithmay. It invites a battle of the blowhards of epic proportion, kind of like when the devil went down to Georgia.
Small world. I was in Izmir at that time and ZOG Gen Melvin Zais, NATO Land Southeast Commander, was a Certified Shithole so I wrote Senator Proxmire some details and he being a typical political genus forwarded my letter to the Pentagon; that is why there are few Whistles Blown on the MIC in America. PS: I was fond of a lot of the Turks and loved the food.
I’ll bet you this will happen. If cops smell the odor of marijuana but can’t arrest you if they find it then they will take you to a police station and make you give a urine sample then charge you for driving under the influence. Maybe you can beat the charge in court by saying you got stone yesterday or the day before but its going to cost you a few thousand in attorneys fees to try and if you lose you’ve got a DUI and a few of those you lose your license forever and do hard prison time.
To all of you who know nothing about drugs,..
The whole world is on them.
I had a “good friend” who was able to supply people with drugs.
His clients were lawyers, school teachers, librarians, doctors even…
Meth, cocaine, ecstasy, ketamine, pot,…
Everybody has their thing, everybody keeps their shit together.
HSF, being in the club world knows.
You ‘normals’ don’t.
If you are going to OD from booze, coke, glue…. whatever, you are a loser.
The reason you’re lawyer is so “on the ball”? He ate a 1/4 gram of speed for breakfast.
Seriously, if you are a loser, you are a loser. Let the rest of us have our drugs.
My Doc. gives me Dexedrine for my ADHD and my vet gives me Ketavet for my dogs, in case they get porcupine quills.
Just leave us alone and let the losers OD. Just don’t take my money to give to them for fucks sake.
Mr. Torpedo,
Would you care to expand upon that? It almost seems as if you are suggesting that professionals in our society, lawyers, celebrities, business owners, et.al., have access to drugs not normally available to the common street seeking addict.
As if there are two distinct classes of person.
As if.
Dear Maggie,
You are an insouciant little trollop.
I bet you have at least one friend who bangs a speedball every night, and never suspect it.
Normal people use drugs.
Abnormal people are baboons.
Honestly, I know kindergarten teachers who take speed during the week , and LSD on the weekends. And they are good at their jobs.
Honest to God truth and your kids LOVE THEM.
Just saying’,…my customers never knew I was tripping’ balls, or if they did, they were too.
Leave Maggie alone. She’s a fine lady. So, take your trollop and shove it up your torpedo dick.
I don’t use drugs. So, blow me. Just because YOUR circle of friends are apparently all dopers, well, that doesn’t mean more normal people are like that.
That was out of nowhere, wasn’t it? Thanks for your fine example of chivalry, Stuckmeister, proving once again you are the champion of all that is honorable and good.
That bastard called ME a trollop?
Bastard.
Whoever gave me a down vote for the last post, GFY.
Learn what the real world is like.
Your kids teachers are tripping their asses off on the weekend.
And at least half of your so called friends,..
And don’t forget the Snowflake Army Of The Coastal States, all on meds prescribed legally by their psychopathologists.
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Robert (QSLV)
Am i going to be the first one to call Stucky a head in the sand Moran?
Props to me!
Fuck you Stucky!
Haha, you don’t even know what is real anymore.
Suck it Moran! Everyone you know is on drugs of some sort.
Interesting comments. Sadly Jimmy Torpedo is right… we are a nation of drug users legal and illegal. Big Pharma is not big for nothing. We are bombarded every day with commercials to talk to our doctor about using the latest drugs on the market. I personally think drug commercials should be banned. Wait until cannabis becomes legal. I can see the commercials now and what they will be like.
All drugs alter perception or mood… or both. Certain foods can alter mood. What I am hearing here in these comments is people want one more drug; cannabis, added to the legal cocktail.
Isn’t it ironic that since cannabis was made illegal it has become popular. It must be human nature. So the government made it popular by prohibiting it. Unintended consequences? Not quite. Look at how many government employees were and are needed to fight this war on cannabis. Look at the size of the prison system as a result of this not to mention the criminal justice system.
And what do you think will happen when cannabis is legalized? More administrative laws will result to handle the inspection, regulation and commerce which means more government employees. And as one comment suggested due to taxation the price will be the same as the black market at first, meaning black market prices will fall later. This will cause the government to go after the black market drug dealers which will mean more jobs for the prison and criminal justice system.
If cannabis is decriminalized; which the government won’t let happen, because they would lose control and potential tax revenue I think the usage of it would go up. Not right of way but over time. We have to realize that popularity of cannabis came over a period of time due to prohibition as with what happened during the alcohol prohibition So we are stuck with it. So we can thank the do gooders and the government for this mass desire in the population for the cannabis high.
So what now?
We have to look at the positive side. We have up to now looked at the negative side and it has not worked. So we have to look at the positive side and work with it. Cannabis has shown us it has many potential medical benefits. It may even have psychological benefits. It obviously has recreational value when used responsibly. But as everything else not everyone will use it responsibly; and that is an empirical fact. So we have to accept this fact with mechanisms to deal with it as we do with alcohol. We are dealing with human nature and as we see around us not everyone is responsible. Government does not have the right to take everyone’s freedom of choice away because 5% of the population is irresponsible.
So Jeff Sessions can go pound sand. He is not going to get his way. He is a dinosaur of the past. His mentality is out of date.
But let’s not fool ourselves here. Legalizing or decriminalizing cannabis is going to present problems. It is going to be abused by some and cause accidents causing death just like alcohol does. The benefits have to be weighed against the disadvantages and sound laws have to be formulated to deal with the consequences of abuse.
Cannabis is not bad just as guns are not bad. It is the irresponsible use of these things that is bad. This is how we have to look at it.
My two cents on this subject