Robert Bronsdon (Hollywood Rob) September 2018
Sometimes we just don’t pay any attention to what we are being told. The news stories are out there but we don’t have time to watch them or they are buried under the rubric of fake news. Movies are made explaining what happened but we don’t see them. Or we see them but fail to understand them. It is certainly the case that many people have become cynical these days as practically every bit of information available to us has been shown to be modified so as to deceive us. Perhaps the information was created by a person or group with a very good reason to avoid a particularly damning piece of information. Perhaps they were just misinformed, or really bad at their job.
Whatever the reason, one has to admit that most of what is presented today as fact is in fact, fiction; a manufactured story that promotes an agenda. Whether that agenda is good for you or bad for you is not relevant to the categorization as fiction. And even worse than the fiction that is promoted as fact, it is impossible to know the goals that directed the creation of the fiction, so not a one of us can ever truly know the intent of any of the fiction that we see portrayed as fact. One might be tempted to call these fictions…a conspiracy.
While this is just a silly video of a fake news reporter pretending that the wind is blowing hard enough to move him, there are many similar fictions produced every day by the main stream media, and you tubers all over the world. Some are benign, most are malicious. This is why I have taken to watching videos produced by people who have no agenda save to portray the joy in their life. Things like Time Team, or Cruising the Cut and Delos are examples. The single person, or small group of people, who are preparing the entertainment just enjoy what they are doing so for the most part there is no incentive to create a meaningful fiction.
Now, I am pretty sure that you are aware that over the past few years there have been several movies produced that pretend to portray Navy Seals in dangerous or dire situations. These movies are, of course, fictions, but they are presented as factual in every way possible. Most merkins would tell you that they were truth. In American Sniper Chris Kyle is presented as a valiant merkin who joined the seals at an advanced age so as to fight for his country. He is alleged to be the most productive sniper ever in the US military. Maybe he did kill 165 people in Iraq. Maybe he was a member of the seals. Maybe he did shoot an Olympic champion shooter at a phenomenal distance in a sand storm. Maybe all of that is true. But one thing I can tell you for sure is that not one Navy Seal sniper would ever leave his post to help marines to kick in doors. There is only one thing that military training is designed to do. It is designed to beat into your head that you must do your job so that others can do their jobs. If your job is to lie on a rooftop and shot people that you see, then you lie on that rooftop until you are told that you can leave. The movie and the book are a fiction and if you listen to any other seal, they will tell you that Kyle was always full is shit. Oh, and he lied about knocking out Jessie Ventura.
I don’t want to apportion blame here beyond stating categorically that Chris Kyle was a little shit. I can’t say that Clint Eastwood decided to enhance reality by creating a fiction around Kyle’s exploits. I am not a military historian and can’t speak to the likely reality within the fiction that is American Sniper. That isn’t even my intention. This essay is not about Chris Kyle or American Sniper. It is about Extortion 17 and Jay Leno’s Garage.
Bet you didn’t see that coming!
There are two Jay Leno’s Garages. One is available on the internet. It is published every Sunday night. The other is on one of the msm’s shit channels of hatred. These two shows, both featuring Jay Leno, are so completely different that it is difficult to see how they are related save for the name and our old friend Jay. The one on the internet is about cars. It is in Jay’s garage, a hanger building at the Van Nuys airport. It is Jay and a few other people talking about their cars. All of the people who talk on the videos love cars. They all know from experience about the car or cars that they are discussing, and when Jay or one of his guests doesn’t know something, they admit it.
The one on the channel of hatred is about entertainment. There is no discussion about cars. The people who are on screen are likely to be car fanatics, but that is not what they are talking about. There is a writer and there is a producer and all of the other accoutrements that go along with a “Hollywood” production and there are multiple takes, and there is drama because – well you have to have drama. It isn’t the same and it isn’t interesting. You don’t learn anything because all truth is written out of the fiction. The end result of this for me is that I never miss my weekly dose of Jay on the internet and I have only seen two of his channel of hatred productions.
This week’s episode of the real Jay Leno’s Garage features a tribute car:
Jim Caviezel was inspired to make this 850 horsepower tribute car in collaboration with Chip Foose to honor the fallen heroes of Extortion 17 and those that gave their lives protecting this country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nod9yNw1UE4
Here is a link to the video, you can watch it yourself. It is really nice to see an 850 hp mustang. The beast sounds great and pulls like a mule for as long as you want to stomp on the gas pedal. But if you go to the 10 minute mark you will see what inspired Jim to undertake the project. He has a t-shirt that he was given. On the t-shirt is a logo. That logo is on the car gas cap. Take a close look at the logo. Chip Foose modified the logo a bit by adding the ancient helmet and flag, but the logo is, in essence a Christian cross and two crossed swords. I don’t claim to know where the logo came from. I do know that extortion 17 was the call sign for the helicopter that was shot down. Call signs don’t get logo’s. Logos are signs of significance created by people to commemorate events that they care deeply about. So the logo on the car in the video was not one that any of the people on the helicopter would have recognized. All that we can discern from the logo was that the people who revered the soldiers who died in the helicopter on mission extortion 17 were deeply Christian. We can also see that Jim is deeply Christian as well, he did play christ in a movie after all, and that he too reveres the soldiers who died in the helicopter.
So what is the truth in this story? We can know that Jim is very dedicated to remembering those who perished. That is a truth. We can’t know why he is but he seems to be. Fair enough. We can see that he spent money to produce a car that he likes as a tribute to the fallen warriors. All of that is true for sure. We can’t know whose money he spent, but it does appear that at the very least, he was dedicated to the project. A laudable goal to be sure. Beyond that, what can we say? Was there a helicopter flight call sign extortion 17? Perhaps. You can’t prove it but it could have been the case. Was that helicopter shot down with a rocket propelled grenade? Sure, maybe. You don’t know what the effective range of a rocket propelled grenade carried by an afghan fighter in 2011 might have been. The only thing that we might know is that the helicopter was at between 100 and 150 feet off the ground. According to Wikipedia, the RPG has roughly a one kilometer range, or just over half a mile. It could happen that an RPG, fired from under a kilometer away, could hit a helicopter and kill everybody, but that would be an amazingly lucky shot. The RPG is very sensitive to wind as it is not guided and has a tendency to turn into the wind because of the location of the larger stabilizing fins on the back. Being as it was early in the morning when the helicopter was shot down, maybe there was no wind to speak of. Maybe the afghan fighter prayed particularly well to Allah that evening and his aim was true. It’s really impossible for anyone to say. But it could all be a fiction, just like the weather channel talking about hurricane Florence.
As Obi Wan Kenobi said to Luke, you are going to find that many of the truths that we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. But that didn’t help explain his lies to Luke any better than any other faith based explanation of things. No Obi Wan, you lied to Luke because you didn’t think that he was strong enough to accept the truth. You knew that Vader was his father. Your deceit is not mitigated by your good intentions and the truth is not changed by your deceit. Truth, real truth based in fact and reality, does not depend greatly on our own point of view. But those truths which are not based in fact and reality, those can certainly depend on our point of view. In fact, they most certainly must.
This is important. If you believe that an afghan soldier shot down a helicopter with practically all of seal team six on it then maybe you, just like Chris Kyle, will sign up to go shoot muslims for jeebuz. Perhaps it is you yourself who will shoot some poor farmers trying to fix their tractor in a field in Iraq or you yourself who forces the jews into the box cars. And you will do it for your god. Nothing less than that will enable a normal human being, one who is not a psychopath, to do such horrible things.
Our only hope is that there is fundamental truth in the world. Truth based on fact and reality. That moral truths cab be derived from foundational truths and that nothing based on faith is real. Faith is the mathematical singularity that isolates the mind from perceiving the truth. Faith stops mankind from finding the truth. Faith kills wantonly and without end. Regardless of whom you might assume it is that starts the wars that plague this planet, you can be very sure that the people who actually have to pull the trigger had to have faith. Faith in the rightness of the cause. Faith in their god, or their country. Faith that what they were doing was the moral thing to do. Without that faith, your soul is fractured by the brutality of what you are required to do. With that faith you can withstand any travail. Is that a good thing? It is a good thing for you. You won’t feel bad for the rest of your life. It is a bad thing for the others. It is bad for your opponents. It is bad for the children in the school bus in Yemen. It is bad for the gypsies and the gays and the jews of germany and Poland. It is bad for the Russians in the gulags. It is bad for the intellectuals in China. It is bad for the Laotians. It is bad for the American Indians. It is bad for the Puritans in England. It is bad for the Christians in Africa. It is bad for all of those whose skulls litter the earth at the hands of those who have faith.
Faith based truth is the door that leads to the metaphorical seven circles of the metaphorical hell. But the real hell is here on earth. The real hell has always been provided to the living by those who have faith. Faith in their god, faith in their leader, faith in the revolution. It matters not what you have faith in. It is the having of the faith that leads to hell on earth and then for the lucky, death.
That’s using a lot of words to say that you are an atheist fanatic. If you would just say that, and that alone, in each of your posts, we will all get the point of the post AND it will save us all some valuable time.
Here’s to you, Rocky. Belly up to the bar and have one on Agnes’s tab.
Says the religious fanatic whos horns are showing.
By the time 60 rolls around and your not a little atheistical…your not paying attention.
Brilliant essay, Robert. Belief is the root source of conflict. You believe that and I believe this and we go to war over the difference. Been going on for all of human history and hardly anyone notices.
But going to war against some other believer is not the end of it. Internally, if I see I am this and want to be that, I live in conflict. Rather than see exactly what I am and go from there, I keep myself agitated with striving to be different from what I am, a behavior that ensures change will be difficult because I am only interested in what could be rather than what is, guaranteeing wrong approaches to solving problems.
Belief comes first.
In each and every person who lives.
It is through the filter of belief (premises, if you prefer) that all sensory input must pass. That which conflicts with belief is filtered out.
This is the real truth. That, and we really don’t understand much about mental illness, except that it really is simply behavior that exists outside of the boundaries of this moment’s widely accepted norms.
The problem is, those norms are always nothing more than today’s fad and fashion.
You want BELIEF?!
Look up the Russian movie “The Chekist.” Read the synopsis. It’s about the Red Terror in the 1920’s when lots of people were systematically murdered by the Cheka.
Two things stand out: 1) The movie is SYMPATHETIC to the man who oversees the murders. 2) The movie treats the systematic execution of young, old, women, men, teenagers, innocent, “guilty,” ALL THE SAME, with what amounts to a shrug of the filmmakers’ shoulders.
This movie was made in 1992. (!) It was reportedly based on a book by an ardent communist who himself was killed in one of the purges.
Leftists are cannibals. They are cargo cult cannibals. Never forget it.
@ Rob & other interested commenters,
I watched the video and understand what you are saying. James C. has placed his faith in a narrative that is most likely false; as many folks do. However, regarding the larger questions raised in your piece, please now consider the following perspectives regarding truth, math, and faith:
Two questions: Could an automobile be produced as the result of a warehouse explosion? Even in a universe of infinite mathematical probabilities and outcomes? Perhaps. But if one answers either question as yes or no, they do so out of faith because they have not observed jack.
With a car, we know the machine was designed and produced by man. Because we know who produced the machine, by means of the intelligent applications of math and chemistry, we also know why it was constructed; for purposes of land-based transportation. Towards that end, a car has a chassis, and complicated systems, that were created for that specific purpose. There is no faith required to comprehend a car.
Now, what about a human being? Clearly, the human body is more technologically advanced than a car. Did mankind evolve into a design with no designer? Or was Man created by means of the intelligent applications of math and chemistry? Even so, if a man’s body is a mere machine, how does the machine regenerate itself over a century or so, give or take? In other words, what makes a human body alive while even the most expensive of automobiles remain mere inanimate machines?
If we say life evolved out of nothing, that takes faith. If we say aliens were the creators, then who created them? If we say God or aliens created man, then that is faith as well.
The truth is that we don’t know. Science and math can answer the what, and in some cases, even the how, but the why and the who (or lack thereof) cannot be observed. Therefore, only faith can address the latter questions in people’s minds; one way or the other.
Hidden in plain sight, indeed. Some would say it is the lack of faith that leads to hell on earth and then for the unlucky, death.
Life is meaningless or it’s not.
When there are no answers, choices remain. But it’s always a two-way street.
For the next few days, I am going to try and put together my Clockwork Orange piece with a Trumpian Twist. This one’s gonna’ be tricky; if I can do it all. Hopefully it will make it to post. In the meantime, please, talk amongst yourselves.
Comments like that keep me coming back. That was epic.
We’ve been slaughtering for almost two weeks straight; chickens, lambs, hogs, steer. I am both fascinated and repelled by what is required of us to live, day after day, consuming that which was alive so that we can continue to live. Amazed at the complexity of systems contained within the body of each animal as well as by it’s austere simplicity. Every one is a replica constructed along the exact same lines and yet each is completely unique unto itself. To do this work under the blue sky filled with swollen clouds, to feel the warmth of the Sun, to smell the scent of blood and soil, redolent of both death and life at the same time- how could it be anything other than a creation of intelligent design?
It is a strange thing to learn more each day and to simultaneously realize how little you know, how small our world is in the midst of an impossible immensity. If it weren’t for faith, I’d have nothing at all.
Great writing Bob. You have given me a lot to think about.
HSF,
“I am both fascinated and repelled by what is required of us to live, day after day, consuming that which was alive so that we can continue to live. “
It’s been a long time since I saw the movie “City Slickers”, but it had the most profound conclusion. I can’t remember all the details but the stars were driving a herd of cattle and wound up rescuing a little orphaned calf they named Norman. Big eyed cute little booger he was. Anyway after bring the herd in after much peril they are talking with the rancher at the end of the drive about taking the herd back home. The rancher had to explain that this was the END of the drive. The herd’s destination was a feedlot. The rancher asked the clueless men “Where did they think that cellophane wrapped meat in the grocery store comes from.” They were shocked needless to say as I would say most of Americans are clueless about where their food comes from.
And this is the story of all life; the innocent dying so that we might live. Say, isn’t that the same theme behind Christianity?
Well written, as always, but I’d have to differ that “intelligent design” is the inevitable conclusion. As a very-long-time Zen practitioner and fairly serious student of quantum physics, I’d offer that no “explanation” is necessary for the inexplicable: what is is IS, and what we perceive as individuated “knowledge” is simply a part of the whole, of which each of us is a part and the totality simultaneously, much as is a hologram.
I’s suggest that you have the whole within you and if you were to experience that intuitionally, you’d know that far from having “nothing”, you have everything without the need for an intermediary.
Whether I be right or wrong about that, it’s all quite marvelous, is it not ?
What ain’t so marvelous is that I can’t seem to master the whole italics thing: sorry!
“You are not a drop in the Ocean, you are the entire Ocean in a drop.”
-Rumi
My younger self would have held nothing but eye-rolling contempt for such nonsense. Id doesn’t MEAN anything. The older I get, however, I see deeper and purer meaning (and truth) in such nonsense. We know NOTHING about the Cosmos or our role in it. Best to first admit such, then look out at all there is in wonder.
Thanks Doug and Marc. While you know that I don’t agree with your conclusions, I really appreciate your genuine thoughts on an admittedly difficult subject. In particular, I like Doug’s comment on evolving out of nothing. If one assumes that an answer is required, then faith is all that is left to those who demand an answer. Many do not demand an answer. Many are satisfied to plug away at life day by day and to wait for more complete answers to come in the fullness of time. If you have to have an answer, then you must revert to faith. If you revert to faith then you believe in mysticism. If you believe in mysticism, then you are open to any aspect of the mystical arts. Christians think that they have the right mysticism. Muslims think that they have the right mysticism. The Jews are bombing the Syrians because they have the right mysticism. There are merkin troops in Syria right now and they all have the right mysticism. There are Muslims in London who have the right mysticism. There are Muslims in Malmo who have the right mysticism.
It is only in the peace of your pastures that you can enjoy the luxury of mystical thoughts. You still have to slaughter those animals because I want my meat.
Sorry, that was me.
I’m sorry it was too.
With all due respect, sir, I don’t believe you understand what’s commonly called “mysticism”. It’s not a faith-based practice; far from it, it’s “intuitionally” (experientially) based. There is no “right” mysticism, particularly if it’s attached to groups. “Mysticism” is an individual practice that yields very interesting results with time. As one sheds worldly concerns to the degree possible, such time becomes available and the outcome of the practice is a game very well worth the candle, so to speak.
OK, I’m back. For selfish reasons really, because I’m still processing my Kubrick research.
I like the way you think, Rob, and – as a fellow contributor here – I respect that you have the sac to put yourself out there; whether it be truth, morality, taking action, etc.
There are so many ways to analyze and interpret various topics. Take, for example, this Clockwork Orange piece I’m working on now. So far, I have an idea of its presentation, I’ve written only the first sentence, and I have many notes assembled from my online research from (during my spare time) over the last few days.
For this film (and book), I could write it from the violence angle. I could write it from the historical perspective using Kubrick’s own words from interviews and books. Or, I could also present it using the occult symbolism therein; ranging from masonic tiles to ancient sun worship. Although the truth of my presentation will be debatable from the various perspectives of the readers; I will, however, try to make its scholarship impeccably accurate.
Let’s consider the “Clockwork Orange as sun worship” angle:
Were you aware of that? “Clockwork Orange?” Time? Circle? I wasn’t, even though it was hidden in plain sight. Guess I just never researched it before; or even thought about it that much. Kubrick also presented ancient Babylonian references in 2001 Space Odyssey and Eyes Wide Shut so I, in turn, have been researching sun worship.
The ancient Sumerians worshipped Uto the sun god. In Babylon, it was Marduk (The Cow God of War, also assigned 50 other names including Bel, Baal, et al).
The Bible, in Genesis 10, speaks of Nimrod and his wife Semiramis (Queen of Heaven). Nimrod was called a mighty hunter before the Lord and historians have claimed Nimrod consolidated his power by establishing the first state religion in the years following Noah’s flood. Now, there are commonalities among all of the world’s major religions. Noah’s flood is one. Moses is another. Of course, there are more but that is beside the point right now.
Here’s the point: Is it possible all of the world’s religions derive from the same ancient storytellers that resided upon the Tigris/Euphrates region of antiquity?
Male = Nimrod, Marduk, Baal, Zeus, Jupiter.
Female = Semiramis, Isis, Ishtar, Astarte, Venus.
Could they all have had the same origination?
In the Bible, they were described as human. In other religions, they became star and planetary deities.
Which raises another interesting consideration and that is this: Biblical Scholarship. There is more historical documentation for biblical canon than any other book, or books, throughout history. Take the New Testament alone. It has more copies documented, in fewer years from the time of writing, than any other book from the ancient world. It’s not even close.
I just don’t think the Koran is in the same category as the Bible when it comes to either historical accuracy or scholarship. There are other angles to consider like prophecy, scientific, archeological, and so forth. Much can be found on the net, but there are also veritable tons of books available as well.
I’m not trying to proselytize here, just responding, in kind, to your thoughts, perspectives, and earnest inquiries. But the fact remains: If I were muslim and took the koran literally, it would be “off with your head”. But if I was a New Testament radical, in the literal sense of those 27 (extremely cohesive) books, you would merely get your feet washed instead.
Truth is, I’m searching just like you. I don’t have all the answers. Not even close.
i think you’d enjoy Jordan Peterson’s lectures, “Maps of Meaning”. He has videotaped /i think three years worth of these.
Reading Maps of Meaning right now. You are spot on Mike. It’s a hard slog so far but it speaks directly to these issues.
“In the Bible, they were described as human. In other religions, they became star and planetary deities.”
Have you considered the possibility that they were a combination of man and fallen angel?
Gen 6:1-4… “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
All cultures have tales of giants and dragons as well. The old testament is literally full of them. Goliath is but a single example. There were entire communities, races of “people” who were very unnaturally large and powerful that God wanted destroyed.
If you look up a man named Mike Hoggard on the youtube and find his 3 part series on “giants” this might add some fuel to your fire. Very compelling stuff…
cheers
Stuck,
Hundreds of Christian denominations but one Apostle’s Creed. The basics are not in dispute.
There is documentation showing the potential of errors being a mere fraction of other historical documents and these are (supposedly) very minor in nature.
In fact, modern scholars claim the NT is 99.5% accurate :
But perhaps the most important aspect is this: Not one academic scholar today with a Ph.D. in a relevant field of study claims that Jesus did not exist.
Just reporting what I’ve read in my research, so don’t blame the messenger. We can compare more documentation, at some point, if you wish. But keep in mind, I only know enough to make me dangerous. 🙂
Pretty much a steaming pile of nihilist mischigas.
Pretty much a long winded steaming pile of pseudo-intelectual gobbledygook.
Pretty much a steaming pile of mischigas.
Faith of consciousness is freedom.
Faith of feeling is weakness
Faith of body is stupidity
Ashiata Shiemash
I know we are real; that Aliens exist and there are hundreds of different types; and Jesus was a real person but now lives in a Spirit Form. Yes the Old Testament is a knock off of Sumerian beliefs from 1,000 years earlier and the New Testament was produced mostly by ancient Jews and Greeks which did elaborate. The Holy Shroud and Shroud of Oviedo are not fakes and verify the Gospel’s Crucifixion Stories. Countless real people of all races and religions have had real supernatural experiences, many were encounters with Jesus. Yes some were liars or crazy; and some were fooled by the Devil or his minions; don’t be fooled by that into thinking they all were. A lot of people blame Christians for the World’s problems; I think Jesus warned us in Revelation of that and even more so about Non-Christians. Imagine the World without Mohammad. Now imagine that Jesus never entered this Barbaric World and taught people about His Father’s Kingdom. To forgive and to love neighbors; and by some manner and logic beyond our understanding, Jesus became the last living sacrifice for individual’s sins. By accepting that mystery by Faith and living a life obeying Jesus’ teachings, the Gospels say God will make us his children and grant us eternal life with Him in Heaven. I thank God for Jesus, the Gospels and Christianity even with faults, and for The Blessed Hope. Amen.
Thank you Robert. While you know that I don’t follow in your beliefs, I can certainly say without equivocation that you hold the beliefs that you so clearly state.
OK, I think I figured out what is so off-putting for me about atheists. It is exactly the same pathology that Orwell ascribed to Socialists. Sure, there is some genuine compassion for the poor, but there is much more hatred for the rich. Of course, no Socialist would ever admit to this, but it is readily observed by others.
The atheist does have genuine love for facts, science and rationality, but there is also a seething hatred of all things religious and maybe, just maybe, a hatred of people who have faith because they can have faith–the fact that they are stupid enough to enjoy a sort of spiritual safety net that the atheist lacks as they navigate through the miseries of life.
I await a denial, HR, but the subtext of every single word you write drips sub-textually with contempt for all things religious and all those utter fools who have any modicum of faith.
Well Drud, I would counter that not every word is dripping with subtext. In fact, maybe most of the words have little or nothing to do with my contempt for all things religious. But you sure are right. In the end, my conclusion is that it is the belief in the mystical that not only allows for, but encourages truly foul actions.
I knew from the very first word your post was not about cars or fake news or anything else but how silly faith is and how right atheists are. We are ALWAYS the worst judges of our own subtexts.
Would you contend that a lack of faith then eliminates from human nature the tendency or ability of foul actions? I mean that as a serious question.
Another serious question: Do you think that your continuous contempt for all things religious is damaging or will ever damage anything religious? Or will all the damage be done internally?
Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time.
No Drud. I would contend that faith is causal. Faith is what causes foul actions. Faith authorizes foul actions.
As to the second question, I do not suspect that my little writings would cause any damage to anything religious. In fact, I like your conclusion. My opinion is that, just as was the case when the three Abrahamic faiths developed, it will be a slow erosion of faith that finally wins out in the end. But as you, and others, have pointed out, there has to be some foundational truth that can slowly replace the ancient faiths.
It is the search for those foundational truths which I find fascinating.
“Faith is what causes foul actions.” Ironic, because that is a statement of pure faith. You must ignore reams and reams of evidence to the contrary to make such a statement. History is full of atrocities incited by atheists and scientists and rationalists who needed no faith to commit them, in fact, there lack of faith almost certainly made them more free to commit them. History is also replete of acts of incredible good that were only achievable through faith, something every atheist must ignore, while at the same time retaining the air perfect rationalism and both the logical and moral high-ground. Quite a feat of self-delusion…worthy of that they attribute to those vile fundamentalists.
Also, ironic is that through that statement you give yourself ultimate moral authority as a person of no faith (or so you see yourself, it is not actually possible to be human without it). Any action is permissible if it is in the perfectly pure motive of eradicating faith.
I can’t even begin to express how dreadfully wrong a statement it is.
It is certainly true that you can not even begin to express how dreadfully wrong a statement it is. However, let me begin with a discussion of what you consider to be faith. There is no faith in a statement that faith causes foul action. One could start with your chosen faith, in the book that you seem to ascribe too wherein the jews are told to go into Canaan and to slaughter the Canaanites. I don’t have the list handy, but it is long and distinguished, as is my Johnson. Then you might ask if it was faith that allowed the Romans to cast the Christians into the arena. I am pretty sure that the Romans had plenty of faith. Well, not in your god, but they had faith in their gods. Or perhaps it was faith that empowered the Muslims to slaughter everyone who wouldn’t submit to Islam. That’s some good faith for you. But let’s get more modern. Hitler was a Christian. He slaughtered a lot of jews. His faith was Christianity. Marx and Lenin were jews. In fact, all of the communists were jews. Their lack of faith was probably the reason that they exterminated all the non-jews they could get their hands on.
I will give you China, and perhaps Cambodia. While I can’t say for sure, those people surly were godless. No divine guilt on those millions of dead. But what about the Spanish Inquisition? Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition. How about the slaughter of the Protestants by the Catholics? How about the hundred years war that raged all over Europe.
But I grow weary. I have defended my contention with specific examples. I encourage you to do the same. Let’s start with just one good thing that faith has accomplished.
Have I ever expressed anything about my faith or “my” God? Please be specific.
Have I ever said or even implied that faith has never caused foul actions?
You have defended you position that faith is the cause of all foul actions? Where and when?
You said “Faith is what causes foul actions.” This means logically that all foul actions are caused by faith and faith alone. That statements if fundamentally false and in “giving” me China and Cambodia you demonstrate that your statement is logically false.
“Their lack of faith was probably the reason that they exterminated all the non-jews they could get their hands on.” What? I thought a lack of faith was the foundation of all morality?
I am quite weary myself. Your armor is complete and impenetrable.
and
Hidden in plain sight?
Ending slavery:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce
What else?
The printing press, industry, exploration, astronomy, physics, the Reformation, politics, philosophy, music, microbiology, genetics…
Just playing the advocate for purposes of discussion. I know there were bad Christians too.
No, sorry Doug. Faith promotes slavery. One might say that a man of faith fought to end slavery. But men of faith followed both the Islamic teachings and the Christian teaching on slavery.
The Church banned the printing of the bible. The faithful murdered most of their workers from the mines to the mills. The rest of them, really. You can say that a man of faith was involved. But in general, men of faith opposed those who worked in all of these fields. But at least, you stepped forward with examples. Drud couldn’t come up with even one.
Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
There is no point Rob.
I would suggest that you can not point to one single instance. If you could, you would. You claim that there are many, how about one for starters.
“Faith is the mathematical singularity that isolates the mind from perceiving the truth.” Absolutely brilliant…..This will be saved and put on my desk to remind me of what I should be thinking when one of the “faithful” comes at me with some nonsense that just does not sound right.
If faith is a “mathematical singularity” then i am sure you can produce the equation for it.
Well no. The mathematical singularity refers to the beginning of the universe which is, according to the maffs, expanding. When it theoretically began that wondrous expansion, it started from a singularity. That singularity is a barrier beyond which it is impossible to know anything. That means that no information can be transmitted through a singularity.
How do you know that no information can be transmitted through a singularity? How do you really know that?
Well of course, I don’t really know that. It is what I have been told by the maff wizards and the cosmologists. It is their claim, not mine. I personally do not think that the universe is expanding at all. But I have no proof just as you have no proof that god sits on his throne in heaven.
I think that they believe that a singularity means that there is nothing but one thing. All things that were before have collapsed into one single thing so there is no mechanism for discovering any of the things before the singularity.