What part of inflation adjusted did you not understand? The bridge was built in the 30’s just as the country was diving back into depression. If you look around, most new building projects are put into motion during recessions, I wonder why? You know why the bridge came in so cheap? No OSHA and low wages, they even had an allowance for how many deaths they could expect. Oh, they had that innovative net. Did they even have workmen’s comp back then? Nowadays, folks go on disability for stress. Back then, you dealt with stress like most men, with alcohol. OK, look, back then, men had families. Today, the faggots live in a house by themselves with a Japanese sex doll who wont stress them out making demands for money to feed the kids. Or the bastard lives with a single mom collecting child support from several baby daddies. Fat city. Mow Stucky’s lawn for $25 bucks? Fuck that, baby momma got the EBT to buy him beer with. What was the topic?
AC
October 2, 2018 8:57 pm
You only pay a toll going into San Francisco on the Golden Gate bridge. Leaving is free.
Does the access road include the tunnel pictured? Tunnels are expensive.
WestcoastDeplorable
October 2, 2018 9:23 pm
The cost of public works projects has gotten way too expensive. We need to dial these contracts back. Use the corp of engineers as a threat to lower the bids. As in if you come in with the usual bullshit, we’ll have the corps build it.
22winmag - Q is a Psyop and Trump is lead actor
October 2, 2018 10:55 pm
Sell our crumbling infrastructure to China by the container ship, if they’ll still take it.
Trapped in Portlandia
October 3, 2018 12:05 am
As a civil engineer who designs and builds this stuff for a living, I’ll tell you why these projects take so long and are so expensive now.
First, you need to do you archeological study to make sure you don’t build through an Indian burial ground. Then a historical study is in order to make sure you don’t demolish some ancient structure. Then its time for the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that can take 18 months if you are really lucky. If you aren’t lucky and most projects aren’t lucky, the environmentalists and NIMBY’s will haul you into court and force you to rewrite the EIS a time or two or three. The rewritten EIS will have no impact on the project other than delaying it, which is the objective of the environmentalists and NIMBYs.
And, of course, you have traffic studies to do. While an engineer seeks to design a road project so it alleviates congestion, environmentalists want more congestion so people will give up driving and take the bus or bike or walk. So if you design a project to improve traffic flow, you will find you ass back in court arguing with the environmental lawyers again. So the best you can do it maybe create the same number of lanes you started with before the project.
Now, if you finally finish all the studies and are finished appearing in court, it is time to bid the project. Most people think that public bidding processes are designed to get the lowest bid, i.e., the most bang for the tax-payer dollar. But most people are naive. The public bidding process is intended to give government money to favored groups. Therefore, if you are minority or woman-owned or somehow “disadvantaged” business, you have a leg up on the other contractors who simply build projects for minimum cost and time. In fact, without minority business partners, your bids are often thrown out.
Finally, let’s not forget about the cost of materials. The steel made inexpensively in very modern mills in China or Canada or France is not appropriate for a US project. The materials all need to be made in the USA. If you have items that are not made anywhere in the USA, then you need to go through a six-month process to convince the government that you cannot locate the material anywhere in the States. More delays and more costs.
And let’s not forget that you will need to pay all employees the pay rates under the Davis-Bacon Act. Those rates are often fantasy numbers, but what the hell, its for the good of the country.
And that, my friends, is why we can no longer afford to build anything in this country.
There was a guy 20 odd miles from here who was asked if he could use numerous truckloads of black dirt being dug up for a road project. My highway engineer friend asked him and the guy said absolutely. Just have them unload all up and down here and that he would then spread it over this large field which at the time had weeds and grasses growing on it. Some numbskull 20 something tree hugging do-gooder that for some reason is employed by Illinois government said no. They would have to do an environmental survey to make sure there was no something or other growing which is not found closer than about 100 miles east in western Indiana. While she stood there he walked over to his crop-duster, filled the tanks with the evil Roundup, took off and sprayed the field with her screaming and hollering. As he took off he said “I will be done here in fifteen minutes. If you can get a court order before I’m done, I’ll stop!” Half an hour later the semis were dumping hundreds of thousands of pounds of dirt on the field.
wxtwxtr
October 3, 2018 2:04 am
A fascinating project and truly a wonder of the world. The first serious design proposal was in 1916 with a $100M guesstimate. There was serious entrenched opposition, so politicking took almost 20 years and was a more arduous struggle than the design or construction. Although preliminary sketches started in 1921, with a monumentally ugly design, the suspension design concept didn’t start in earnest until 1929.
Construction started in 1933 and completed in 1937, costing $35Million. It was NOT an economy project at the time, as it used ‘bleeding edge’ materials and methods. Labor? Probably market price, because there was always a line at the job gate to replace the workers who quit. Obviously the current soviet style “you pretend to pay us, so we pretend to work” attitude was NOT prevalent there. They suffered up there, and were proud of it.
Wikipedia has a good overview, and there are a lot of great books on the construction, with fascinating photos.
javelin
October 3, 2018 7:39 am
The original great Alaskan Highway of 1700 miles..(now at 1300 miles), was constructed in 8 months across crevasses, through and around mountains in the far corner of the continent where supplied/materials took a lot of effort to deliver. Cost was $15 million ( primarily built by the army corps of engineers)
goofyfoot
October 3, 2018 9:05 am
I believe they built the Empire State Bldg in 12 months or less. I could b mistaken
I believe that is about correct. I may have heard 400 days.
Peaknic
October 3, 2018 10:56 am
“Inflation adjusted”? We all know that the inflation numbers have been severely managed to under report real inflation for decades, so I question the conversion factor. If Shadowstats’ version of inflation are used, I suspect the 2 dollar amounts would be a lot closer. The point is still valid even if the amounts end up being identical, though.
I always take these “inflation adjusted” calculations to under-represent the true comparison.
wxtwxtr
October 3, 2018 1:13 pm
The construction of the Boulder Dam was an excellent book too. Particularly the idea that those depression projects had a serious purpose. In that case, the 1905 floods almost wiped out a $75M per year crop in the Imperial Valley, returning the Salton Sea to the Gulf of California, and making Palm Springs a seaport. The pitch was that a $25M dam could protect it; and that an additional $25M canal system could provide “infinite” irrigation “forever”. Lofty goals then. Purposeful people built them.
Nowadays, in the Empire of Lies, it seems projects are almost conceived to line the pockets of the protected, accomplish a minor public convenience, and cost 2x+ the initial lie – err – estimate. Fiat currencies assure that estimates get flexible and the protected / connected pockets get lined, and we proles pay 2x as much. And most importantly, the $39M interest for a $35M Golden Gate gets devalued so we look back and say “A Bargain!” We have to remember that people paid cash then and credit was scarce.
The Great Depression was deflationary. Imagine building a project for $35M that in 10 years might cost $25M. We’re all too young to know what it was really like back then. And now, after 100 years of fiat – who knows? There’s pressure to build it NOW before the price doubles … or not.
Gotta love that fiat currency.
What part of inflation adjusted did you not understand? The bridge was built in the 30’s just as the country was diving back into depression. If you look around, most new building projects are put into motion during recessions, I wonder why? You know why the bridge came in so cheap? No OSHA and low wages, they even had an allowance for how many deaths they could expect. Oh, they had that innovative net. Did they even have workmen’s comp back then? Nowadays, folks go on disability for stress. Back then, you dealt with stress like most men, with alcohol. OK, look, back then, men had families. Today, the faggots live in a house by themselves with a Japanese sex doll who wont stress them out making demands for money to feed the kids. Or the bastard lives with a single mom collecting child support from several baby daddies. Fat city. Mow Stucky’s lawn for $25 bucks? Fuck that, baby momma got the EBT to buy him beer with. What was the topic?
You only pay a toll going into San Francisco on the Golden Gate bridge. Leaving is free.
I wonder what the tolls for this will be?
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/colossal-elevator-space-could-be-going-sooner-you-ever-imagined-ncna915421
Does the access road include the tunnel pictured? Tunnels are expensive.
The cost of public works projects has gotten way too expensive. We need to dial these contracts back. Use the corp of engineers as a threat to lower the bids. As in if you come in with the usual bullshit, we’ll have the corps build it.
Sell our crumbling infrastructure to China by the container ship, if they’ll still take it.
As a civil engineer who designs and builds this stuff for a living, I’ll tell you why these projects take so long and are so expensive now.
First, you need to do you archeological study to make sure you don’t build through an Indian burial ground. Then a historical study is in order to make sure you don’t demolish some ancient structure. Then its time for the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that can take 18 months if you are really lucky. If you aren’t lucky and most projects aren’t lucky, the environmentalists and NIMBY’s will haul you into court and force you to rewrite the EIS a time or two or three. The rewritten EIS will have no impact on the project other than delaying it, which is the objective of the environmentalists and NIMBYs.
And, of course, you have traffic studies to do. While an engineer seeks to design a road project so it alleviates congestion, environmentalists want more congestion so people will give up driving and take the bus or bike or walk. So if you design a project to improve traffic flow, you will find you ass back in court arguing with the environmental lawyers again. So the best you can do it maybe create the same number of lanes you started with before the project.
Now, if you finally finish all the studies and are finished appearing in court, it is time to bid the project. Most people think that public bidding processes are designed to get the lowest bid, i.e., the most bang for the tax-payer dollar. But most people are naive. The public bidding process is intended to give government money to favored groups. Therefore, if you are minority or woman-owned or somehow “disadvantaged” business, you have a leg up on the other contractors who simply build projects for minimum cost and time. In fact, without minority business partners, your bids are often thrown out.
Finally, let’s not forget about the cost of materials. The steel made inexpensively in very modern mills in China or Canada or France is not appropriate for a US project. The materials all need to be made in the USA. If you have items that are not made anywhere in the USA, then you need to go through a six-month process to convince the government that you cannot locate the material anywhere in the States. More delays and more costs.
And let’s not forget that you will need to pay all employees the pay rates under the Davis-Bacon Act. Those rates are often fantasy numbers, but what the hell, its for the good of the country.
And that, my friends, is why we can no longer afford to build anything in this country.
There was a guy 20 odd miles from here who was asked if he could use numerous truckloads of black dirt being dug up for a road project. My highway engineer friend asked him and the guy said absolutely. Just have them unload all up and down here and that he would then spread it over this large field which at the time had weeds and grasses growing on it. Some numbskull 20 something tree hugging do-gooder that for some reason is employed by Illinois government said no. They would have to do an environmental survey to make sure there was no something or other growing which is not found closer than about 100 miles east in western Indiana. While she stood there he walked over to his crop-duster, filled the tanks with the evil Roundup, took off and sprayed the field with her screaming and hollering. As he took off he said “I will be done here in fifteen minutes. If you can get a court order before I’m done, I’ll stop!” Half an hour later the semis were dumping hundreds of thousands of pounds of dirt on the field.
A fascinating project and truly a wonder of the world. The first serious design proposal was in 1916 with a $100M guesstimate. There was serious entrenched opposition, so politicking took almost 20 years and was a more arduous struggle than the design or construction. Although preliminary sketches started in 1921, with a monumentally ugly design, the suspension design concept didn’t start in earnest until 1929.
Construction started in 1933 and completed in 1937, costing $35Million. It was NOT an economy project at the time, as it used ‘bleeding edge’ materials and methods. Labor? Probably market price, because there was always a line at the job gate to replace the workers who quit. Obviously the current soviet style “you pretend to pay us, so we pretend to work” attitude was NOT prevalent there. They suffered up there, and were proud of it.
Wikipedia has a good overview, and there are a lot of great books on the construction, with fascinating photos.
The original great Alaskan Highway of 1700 miles..(now at 1300 miles), was constructed in 8 months across crevasses, through and around mountains in the far corner of the continent where supplied/materials took a lot of effort to deliver. Cost was $15 million ( primarily built by the army corps of engineers)
I believe they built the Empire State Bldg in 12 months or less. I could b mistaken
I believe that is about correct. I may have heard 400 days.
“Inflation adjusted”? We all know that the inflation numbers have been severely managed to under report real inflation for decades, so I question the conversion factor. If Shadowstats’ version of inflation are used, I suspect the 2 dollar amounts would be a lot closer. The point is still valid even if the amounts end up being identical, though.
I always take these “inflation adjusted” calculations to under-represent the true comparison.
The construction of the Boulder Dam was an excellent book too. Particularly the idea that those depression projects had a serious purpose. In that case, the 1905 floods almost wiped out a $75M per year crop in the Imperial Valley, returning the Salton Sea to the Gulf of California, and making Palm Springs a seaport. The pitch was that a $25M dam could protect it; and that an additional $25M canal system could provide “infinite” irrigation “forever”. Lofty goals then. Purposeful people built them.
Nowadays, in the Empire of Lies, it seems projects are almost conceived to line the pockets of the protected, accomplish a minor public convenience, and cost 2x+ the initial lie – err – estimate. Fiat currencies assure that estimates get flexible and the protected / connected pockets get lined, and we proles pay 2x as much. And most importantly, the $39M interest for a $35M Golden Gate gets devalued so we look back and say “A Bargain!” We have to remember that people paid cash then and credit was scarce.
The Great Depression was deflationary. Imagine building a project for $35M that in 10 years might cost $25M. We’re all too young to know what it was really like back then. And now, after 100 years of fiat – who knows? There’s pressure to build it NOW before the price doubles … or not.