I wonder what things made in China/Asia can be easily made by yourself? Now, how can you do that quickly and in volume?
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A Wip Wondering
I wonder what things made in China/Asia can be easily made by yourself? Now, how can you do that quickly and in volume?
Chopsticks
Unless you’re a real Bernie acolyte or a build-the-wall qAnon Trumpfuck, you’ll know that if it was possible to produce something cheaper than the Chinese, somebody would be doing it and making beaucoup bucks. That is the essence of capitalism. Unfortunately, most in the US don’t understand the concept and will complain about Jooz and vote for the Bern. Looking forward to the downvotes.
Then you may not get any here. You can’t always get what you want. You get what you need. Micky J.
Dan,
I should have written the reason for the Wondering. If 2nd or 3rd order effects from China’s virus problem is the US has massive problems procuring the things/food it needs, the US may have the need to produce like it once did.
So, I ask again, what products and the associated supply chain can be gathered quickly and to scale for volume?
The US will have no problem with food. It can produce massive amounts, and will.
The problem may be in its distribution. That is a horse of a different color under some scenarios.
We get lots of food from China. That’s got to have some kind of affect, no?
The US does not get “lots” of food from China. The US imports around $4.5 billion a year in ag products from China. In the scheme of things that is low enough to be considered zero – .04 cents worth per person per day.
I did not know that. It seems every time I check to see where our seafood comes from, it says China. Well, maybe it’s Chili or Vietnam?
Seriously, only $4.5 billion?
That is what the search engine says. But always take that stuff with a grain of salt.
much of china’s food is probably like their honey–much of china’s ” honey” is shipped to other 3rd world shiholes & relabeled as being from india,viet nam,etc.–never buy honey in a store–
I shall miss no food from China. When I see Product of China on a package or produce, I drop it like it has the Red Flu. The less of their shit we get, the better. I wish we would stop shipping our food there for processing, too. That made absolutely no sense to me.
I agree with you, Tampa. I try to buy locally made, at a roadside stand.
1. It helps the little guy trying to stay in business against big corps.
2. The quality is typically much better.
A damn good friend turned me on to some local honey, and it is delicious, as a natural sweetener.
Ma taught me to use it in hot tea, with lemon, when feeling punky.
Lately though, I warm up a couple T spoons, then drizzle it over sliced banana, apple, and / or any type of berry; preferably blueberries. Heaven.
Agree lgr, I too use honey for its therapeutic properties. I have a slice of lemon, ginger and honey as a drink every morning – it’s good for the immune system I believe.
Excellent question, Donkey, thank you and deserving of a reasoned argument. IMO if the need arises there is always some entrepreneur who will fill the gap. We have all been subsidised by cheap Chinese and Asian labour when our western people were unable to compete on price through globalisation. This is ending now and good riddance.
I was in Malta before they joined the EU and was amazed to see all the buses of 1950s vintage. I asked where they got the spare parts and was directed to a maze of small workshops where they made everything. Of course, the EU destroyed all that eventually, but like Cuba, small engineering works will always prevail in times of adversity or scarcity.
POW camps are another great example and UK during the last war. I could tell of many tales of ‘make and mend’ that my parents engaged in and I am sure Old Timer would add to the list.
As long as nobody interferes, the market will handle it. Start rationing or trying to control prices, then expect shortages. Not that I’m predicting the markets would be free to operate…
Dan
Why would someone complain about the Jews and then vote for a Jew?
the calculation on whether something can be made ‘cheaper than the chinese’ can be quite complex. remember the chinks have been subsidizing manufacturing for 3 decades allowing them to produce below cost and steal market share (not to mention ip theft). there of course have been short-sighted economic reasons for off-shoring from whites in the west, but to suggest there hasn’t also been a large scale push for de-industrialization from all levels is not only ignorant, it is retarded. you are retarded. it is difficult if not impossible to make the correct economic calculations with central banking.
and people who complain about ‘jooz’ won’t vote for the bern because, and get this, he is a joo.
Dan,
I never said cheaper. Come on man, I’m asking the question because of what many people are saying about 2nd and 3rd order affects of China’s virus problem.
If they are so embattled by this virus that they are unable to go to work a manufacture things the US needs, can I profit by being ready to make things here to make up for it?
Well, here are a couple of thoughts.
1) making almost anything is easy if you know how. It is the learning how that is difficult. Making things is based on the application of resources: materials, manpower, facilities, distribution, etc.
2) to make something quickly almost always requires the division of labor. Ie you take all the steps required to make the item, and reduce them down to their smallest component. And then set up stations that do nothing save one small piece of the entirety over and over. You create an assembly line in effect.
It is mind-numbing and dehumanising to work on an assembly line of course. That is also one of the reasons that some work has gone to China. They have more people willing to do that work than does the US. Finding employees that will put say one bolt into one hole several thousand times per day, then do it again for the next few decades, is difficult.
That is why Henry Ford had to pay such high wages – the farmers he was recruiting away from agriculture would not do that work for average pay, and he had a turnover of employees that was crippling. So he paid them five times the going rate, which convinced enough of them to stay such that he could make cars in volume. Some folks claim he was some kind of social visionary that paid those wages so that his employees could buy the cars that he made, but that is false, and never was part of his consideration. However, paying five times the average wage did so result. He only had 14,000 employees total, but the pressure he put on the competition did result in manufacturing wages climbing rapidly so as to retain good workers.
The seeds of the destruction of manufacturing were also sown therein. As wages were so high, the seeds of incentive to automate were sown as a result. Automation was slow at first, but kicked into high gear in the fifties and sixties, and particularly the seventies, when the Japanese began kicking ass by providing quality products at low prices. The insulated US manufacturing market came under pressure, and the need to automate became severe, and so that is what happened.
So to make a product at volume means you must divide labor, and you must automate to compete. Which means, generally, manufacturing is not a great game for newbies unless you have a niche market.
LL,
Do you foresee (I realize it may be a bit early but for the sake of speculation) any items the US will be short on that an enterprising group of investors could take advantage of?
No idea. Have not thought about it. If I think of something will let you know.
You know, what we really need to do is go to China, buy their tech and products, bring it home, study it, reverse-engineer it, then frap out the plans and specs to our factories and sell it back to them at a profit.
Oh, wait-they did that to us first.
Cuba is a good model for what the US will look like from a manufacturing and goods perspective should this virus continue apace.
The US manufactures dollars and war dead for the most part. The food growing regions are going to shift due to the Grand Solar Minimum and that means what used to grow in North Dakota then grows in Kansas. That means the farmers growing wheat in the Dakota’s are going out of business. Food is going to be a real problem because of the rampant denial about what is actually happening versus all the warming / CO2 bullshit.
My father had me do all sorts of chores when I was growing up. We remodeled a six family house in Queens, NY and did everything including concrete, plumbing, carpentry, electrical, paint, etc on my dad’s building. I hated it at the time but I’m grateful now because I call almost no one to service of fix any of our things. I also collected a fortune in tools and know how to use them. I’ve got the best welding equipment (TIG, MIG, Stick) on the island and fabricate all manner of stuff out of steel.
I build stuff because purchasing takes at least 2 weeks of ship delivery time and when all is said and done, 50% cost addition due to customs related charges.
I need to learn how to weld.
Welding is easy – welding well not so much. Want to weld, go buy a cheap MIG second hand, and start welding. Dead easy to do, but it will take lots of experience to do well. Stick is more difficult, and TIG is for good welders only in my opinion, and those who need to weld aluminum, etc. So given SAO uses TIG, odds are he is a pretty good welder.
Yeah, welding is easy.
Just like farming. Just ask HF.
Do you weld, smartass? I do. I got my welding license a long time ago, but am not a good welder.
Almost anyone, even a numbskull like you, can grab a MIG and weld two bits of steel together that would be reasonably strong. It may look like shit, and have spatter and holes blown in it if it is thin, but even a moron like you could get it done.
To weld it nice, low spatter, no holes, 100% strength requires skill. But want to do general repair work, put the odd steel frame together, etc., where looks is not important, is not difficult.
And yes, look at HSF – he is good now, but I believe he farmed even when he wasn’t.
Just for the record llpoh,
I replied with a response, the same response twice.
It all seemed well until I looked to see if you had replied.
My comment seemed to have evaporated, twice.
Oh well, I’m not going to type all that in again.
Maybe it’s just the cyber karma bitches biting my ass today.
Enjoy the rest of your Summer.
Anon.
It’s been happening a lot lately.
I have a highly trained cadre of hackers scouring the site and deleting anything that I might possibly disagree with. Smartass anons are high on their list of suspect posters.
Hey, if you have the money, flaunt it.
But, you’ll still be a shitty welder.
I discovered ten years ago that being able to flaunt a bit of money usually attracts really good welders.
I thought you just showed them a bit of leg?
Look at your local jr. college, They might offer classes on welding, and machining.
SAO – you severely underestimate the US ability to grow food. A lot of the grain grown in the US is fed to livestock, and a lot is exported. In 1997 a study suggested that the grain fed to livestock in the US was sufficient to feed 800 million people.
Sure, lots of this is not grain that would be suitable for human consumption. But the point is this – merely reducing the amount of grain fed to livestock by around 1/3 in the US would be sufficient in and of itself to feed the entire US population.
Further, the US exports around 200 billion pounds of grain a year. Or around 700 lbs of grain per person in the US. That in itself is around 3000 calories per US resident per day. The US grows about a trillion pounds of grain a year. The math is simple – around 100 calories an ounce, or around 1600 calories a pound. 700 pounds a year per person is needed, times 330 million = around 200 billion pounds to feed the population. And that does not count potatoes, grass fed meat protein, fish capture, etc., that occur that do not deplete grain resources.
The US is capable of growing vast amounts of food. Even if the circumstances you suggest were to happen, that is still the reality.
By stopping food exports, the US fills 100% of its calorie needs.
There is no issue with the amount of food that can be grown – sufficient capacity exists, by many times over. The only issues are if a crisis hits, can it be distributed, and can the supply chain of fuel and costs associated with its growing be maintained – which is what can and does cause famine.
You’re reciting recent history. I’m suggesting that due to solar cycle 25 being the weakest in hundreds of years, what was is going to change drastically. Even NASA has put out information on what to expect.
The crop reports from all over the world show a decline in aggregate food production. China’s current problem has caused lots of imported food to rot in containers.
World wide shipping is down and not just because of the virus situation. US food production was seriously hurt by a very wet spring and they are estimating that this year will be worse.
What was is not necessarily what will continue. History shows what happens during a Grand Solar minimum and we are headed into a sever one.
SAO – even if grain production drops 80% the US has enough food. The US grows 40 billion pounds of potatoes a year. Current pastures can support around 10 million cattle without augmenting with grain, or 1/30th cow per person, or 15 pounds per year per person. Fish is caught at a rate of around 40 pounds per person per year. Etc.
The US has huge reserves of food capacity. To cause severe famine in the US would require an 80% sustained drop in grain production.
It’s a matter of what we are growing now that will need to change. A reversion to the multitude of foods we grew in the 40’s and even 50’s would permit us to still feed ourselves. Prior to chemical farming and GMO’s, wheat was grown in abundance way up in north central Albert. I know because my brother in law grew up on a Wheat farm in Camrose. The eastern potato is a near complete food if you eat it with the skins on like the Irish. The yield per acre is obscene.
Turnips and beets up north were common as was barley, a more fogiving crop than wheat. What is labeled as marginal farmland in the states is highly productive when used properly. It’s called marginal because the Banksters can’t fund giant agribusiness farms on it. Speaking of cold weather farming. Do you know how tasty a muskrat can be. They flourish up north. Before we are forced to learn how I don’t think we will have 330 million to feed.
Flea – I grow huge amounts of food in around 100 sq yards of raised beds. You are entirely right.
There are lots of crops out there that yield huge amounts, but which are almost never seen as they are too difficult to grow commercially.
For instance, I raise potato onions and walking onions. Dead easy to grow with great yields. They are difficult to harvest commercially, and the bulbs, though extremely numerous, are smaller than commercial onions. As a result, they are not readily available. But a person can grow them in a raised bed in huge quantities. Squash, pumpkin, etc. are dead easy to grow, and have excellent yields. Etc etc etc.
Llpoh.
Exactly. If a banker can’t measure it, it isn’t food. The Irish had to feed a family of 8 to 12 on 1/8 acre of potatoes and raise a pig for the landlord on marginal land because the good tillable ground was for the nobility.
I was reading accounts of the farmers up on the shores of the Berants Sea. Not claiming they got rich but they fed a cow and grew food. Cows love roots and pumpkins by the way.
Speaking of cows. Holsteins are agribusiness cows. They were good cows way back but they competed with lots of other breeds. Now it’s all the banks want to support due to unwholesome breeding for massive volume.
Flea – Growing protein in large quantities can be difficult, but if a family has 100 square yards, they can grow 100% of their other needs, including tomatoes, squash, lettuce, radish, cubes, turnips, parsnips, onions (if the old style clumping potato onions and walking onions especially), green beans, carrots, peppers of all kinds, etc. I tend not to grow potatoes as they take a lot of room relative to output in raised beds, as do pumpkins, which I grow out on compost piles (they love that).
A family could easily subsist on 100 square yards, augmented by grain,potatoes, and staples. A quarter acre per person and you can entirely survive, as much of the world does.
you guys are mostly correct about us being able to feed ourselves,though i’m not sure a large % of our population is up to it–
how far south the cold comes & how rainfall patterns shift will make a huge difference also–
keeping the lights & water working & distributing the food will be the challenge–
there might be one major problem,many hybrid veggies have seeds that can’t be reused if i understand how things work–
regarding potatoes,stack some tires & fill em w/good dirt-i used to grow the hell out of sweet potatoes that way & it takes up very little space–
our food production is the primary reason i don’t worry about economic collapse as much as many other guys–yeah,it’ll hurt but as long as we can feed ourselves & can export food we’ll stay powerful assuming we don’t actually fight a nation of our capabilities–
question–when’s the last time any of you have seen a comment by francis marion?it’s been weeks,maybe longer since i’ve seen anything by him–
Red.
Now that you mention it, a very long time since he weighed in on anything.
Hybrid seeds that volunteer the next year are a mixed bag but some of them are keepers because they adapted. It’s kind of like a pair of mixed breed dogs mating.
If we survive the reset it’s gonna be more like when our parents were kids which may not be bad.
maybe it’s time 4 you to do an article about survival as opposed to prepping,w/some prepping thrown in also–
the twig stoves,water purification,suburban security,the works–
Tampa.
I would but I don’t have a clue how to put it in online format. Gob Gore did that for me with My War. I wouldn’t mind debunking some of the bs that scares people out of thinking they can do it, or the hardware/camping store cowboys who load you up with gadgets and the damn perfectionists who have to dot every I. Me and a buddy hopped a freight out of minneapolis in late january when it was -40 windchill and rode the High Line accros N. Dak to Spokane Wa. with nothing but our sleeping bags and bic lighters and a pocket knife.
i assume you saw how sanders annihilated everybody in nevada?
46%/20% to bidenthen buttplug & the others–
it’s going to be great if they screw him again–
Red.
I saw it but I told BL yesterday that I just don’t think the Banksters are going to let him spoil their party. Maybe some hapless dupe the CIA brainwashed dressed in a Maga hat will run up and shoot him hollering ahkbar so they can then blame trump and the muslims at the same time.
flea,the fox posted something on another thread so i guess he’s ok–
And with the use of a high tunnel hoophouse you can improve your season. I know some folks up north who are harvesting tomatoes in their greenhouse for Thanksgiving. Not too shabby.
Gilbert – They can be made pretty cheaply, too. Drive some star pickets into the ground, making hopes with 2” irrigation pipe that are pushed onto the stakes. They can be crossed and tied at the intersect points for stability, then clear plastic stretched over the hoops. They come in widths up to around 15 yards, but for a 4 yard high hoop 12 yard width is more than enough.
You can easily hope over raised garden beds as well, with same type system.
Another concern I have, because I do tractor and equipment repair is how many parts are manufactured in China. This new equipment breaks down on a tremendous scale every haying season and I know the same goes for big Ag equipment. Without a steady flow of parts, we are in serious trouble.
I was visiting with a man several years ago that retired from a local steel plant in Seymour Mo, they build slider carriages for underneath semi trailers. He was complaining to me that they had closed the refinery in Springfield Mo. and cut it up for scrap; now purchasing all castings from China. The question he put forth to me was, what happens when we get in a heated exchange with China and they shut us off? Neither of considered something like this virus.
I have since learned that although there are many parts machined here in the U.S., a lot of castings do come from China. Just something I continue to ponder and watch.
It’s all about the interim. 5 years from now we would be fine without China or the rest of the world. But there are just too many small pieces in between that we cannot see. About half of the parts are we replace on our tractor come from China as they are cheaper but very few of the other 50 percent even come from this country. You name it- chainsaws, pumps, electric motors are not made in this country. And I’m talking some of the better brands of equipment.
Time will tell. Probably sooner rather then later.
Question: if you can make things yourself, why do you need the volume?
I make clothing items (nothing complicated) and help friends make clothing but have no interest in becoming an industrial producer or retailer.
—-
I would posit that a large majority of things which are made are wholly unnecessary in the first place.
In my “kinder, gentler Pol Pot” envisionings, the people who design and make those catalogs full of party/school crap (eg., “Oriental Trading Company”) would be put in the stocks.
You make a good point. The US can survive on less stuff. Much of it is unneeded. The point about volume is to fill the gaps for things we do need that come from China and into our stores.
wip,
I will call my broker buddy and see what the last “lowball” offer was…
I sent her a picture of one of her trees that was about to fall on the highway due to all the rain and erosion. Missouri Department of Transportation sent a truck out to cut it down. She’s pretty well connected because her husband was a railroad executive before he retired.
I can’t get MODOT out here for shit.
Don’t put yourself out, my wife is a city gal. I suspect, when my train comes in, we will have a city home and a country home. I will then become a country gentleman with a girl in the city.
I meant…..when my ship comes in…
Grow lots of potatoes in a small area. https://tipnut.com/grow-potatoes/