The Stock Market will soar today. Wall Street rejoices. CNBC proclaims the consumer is alive and well. The country will add another $4 billion to the National Debt. And children across the land will wake up in vehicles to get ready for school. What a glorious land we live in.
We Can’t Make It Here Anymore – by James Mcmurtry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM
I watched that piece last night; the fact that it trumped Angelina Jolie as the featured story was more surprising than anything.
Market is up 309 and counting.
CNBC is hedging that with a smaller headline: “Markets Close to Cathartic Moment.”
Ya think?
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” Thomas Jefferson
Hey, I lived out of a car when I was 2 or 3, and look how I turned out!
These kids need to suck it in and quit whining.
Cry me a fucking river.
It’s probably not too smart to have kids if you live in a car.
Pirate Jo
Two married parents had the kids when they lived in a house. One parent died and the other lost his job. Empathy is not your strongest trait.
Well everyone can’t get a bailout,First, you have to get on the invited list.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html
PJ: Sometimes shit doesn’t work out like folks expect.
Right, Colma, sometimes The Stork just leaves one on your doorstep. Sorry, but this is one of those things we do have control over. Not the kids’ fault though.
I’m quite aware…
That’s why a no-kids policy is wise…
Flash, I was going to post that story you linked to. Here is part of it, for anyone who didn’t take the time to read flash’s link:
Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion
The Federal Reserve and the big banks fought for more than two years to keep details of the largest bailout in U.S. history a secret. Now, the rest of the world can see what it was missing.
The Fed didn’t tell anyone which banks were in trouble so deep they required a combined $1.2 trillion on Dec. 5, 2008, their single neediest day. Bankers didn’t mention that they took tens of billions of dollars in emergency loans at the same time they were assuring investors their firms were healthy. And no one calculated until now that banks reaped an estimated $13 billion of income by taking advantage of the Fed’s below-market rates, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its January issue.
Saved by the bailout, bankers lobbied against government regulations, a job made easier by the Fed, which never disclosed the details of the rescue to lawmakers even as Congress doled out more money and debated new rules aimed at preventing the next collapse.
A fresh narrative of the financial crisis of 2007 to 2009 emerges from 29,000 pages of Fed documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act and central bank records of more than 21,000 transactions. While Fed officials say that almost all of the loans were repaid and there have been no losses, details suggest taxpayers paid a price beyond dollars as the secret funding helped preserve a broken status quo and enabled the biggest banks to grow even bigger.
Read all about the corruption, vote-buying and lack of oversight here.
Admin – Two words: life insurance. People die and lose jobs all the time. That’s why you put some safeguards in place before you have kids. I have plenty of empathy, but reserve it for the kids in the case, who were not the irresponsible parties.
Very irresponsible of that mother to die.
Not everyone can afford life insurance when they live paycheck to paycheck.
Pirate Jo
How many people in their early 20’s have life insurance? Did you?
Did your parents have life insurance on themselves at the age of 24?
If you live paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford life insurance, you cannot afford kids either.
I’m glad your life is so well planned and predictable. In retrospect it is easy to judge people, isn’t it?
I’m glad you are so sure of everything. It must comfort you.
In fact, it IS easy to judge people when they are foolish, irresponsible, and when their self-centered actions have a negative impact on others – in particular, their own kids. That is why we have this valuable thing called “judgment.” Other people die or lose jobs, and their kids don’t end up sleeping in cars.
I know I could get hit by a beer truck tomorrow, or my company could go out of business and leave me without a job. My life isn’t any more planned or predictable than anyone else’s.
Where does this irrational idea come from, that we have no ability to plan our own reproduction? People have been able to plan the number and timing of their offspring with a great deal of success for many years. To do otherwise is just selfish and stupid. A term life insurance policy only costs a few dollars a month. It is not the fault of the “1%” that these imbeciles didn’t do any financial planning to take care of their own kids.
I’m glad you decided not to reproduce. It was a good decision.
SHOCKING IRRESPONSIBILITY!!! ARE THERE NO PRISONS?
This is the home of the Metzger family. Arielle,15. Her brother Austin, 13. Their mother died when they were very young. Their dad, Tom, is a carpenter. And, he’s been looking for work ever since Florida’s construction industry collapsed. When foreclosure took their house, he bought the truck on Craigslist with his last thousand dollars. Tom’s a little camera shy – thought we ought to talk to the kids – and it didn’t take long to see why.
Wow. I just love reading comments like Pirate Jo’s. It’s so wonderful to live in a society in which everyone simply points fingers and says “It’s your fault. You did it to yourself.”
Funny that it never seems to come down to that when it comes to corporate bailouts.
Did you watch the segment, Jo, or did you just bang your gavel of righteousness? The teenage girl featured in the piece has a better grasp of life, and personal responsibility, than you do. But for the grace of God, you’d be in the same boat, or GMC truck, as her family.
You should go live in a van down by the river for a few months. A bath in the waters of humility is in order. You stink.
PJ Scrooge
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First Collector: At this festive time of year, Mr. Scrooge, it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute.
Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?
First Collector: Plenty of prisons.
Ebenezer: And the union workhouses – are they still in operation?
First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.
Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I’m very glad to hear it.
First Collector: I don’t think you quite understand us, sir. A few of us are endeavoring to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth.
Ebenezer: Why?
First Collector: Because it is at Christmastime that want is most keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. Now what can I put you down for?
Ebenezer: Huh! Nothing!
Second Collector: You wish to be anonymous?
Ebenezer: [firmly, but calmly] I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish sir, that is my answer. I help to support the establishments I have named; those who are badly off must go there.
First Collector: Many can’t go there.
Second Collector: And some would rather die.
Bob Cratchit: Mr. Scrooge?
Ebenezer: I’m busy.
Bob Cratchit: Well, it’s about Mr. Marley, sir! He’s dying!
Ebenezer: Well, what do you want me to do about it? If he’s dying, he’s dying.
Ebenezer: But it was only that you were an honest man of business!
Jacob Marley: BUSINESS? Mankind was my business! Their common welfare was my business!
Indie:
Despite my first comment, I’m with you…
Believe me, kids who have to go through that shit do have a little different take on life.
I don’t know the answer… but yes, welfare helps one acquire more affordable tastes.
If it wasn’t for my grandparents, I really don’t know where I’d be. Family does matter… I guess some folks aren’t lucky enough to have that.
Godammit admin, you put me in some nasty broods some days.
So, when people borrow money they cannot afford to repay, in order to live an inflated lifestyle, we don’t feel sorry for them. Don’t buy a new Mercedes, drive a used Honda, we say. Don’t mortgage yourself to the hilt on an overpriced McMansion, go live in an affordable neighborhood and stop trying to be the Joneses, we say. Go to a state school and major in engineering instead of racking up six figures of debt on a degree in navel gazing. We’re all about personal responsibility.
Until it comes to breeding just because we want something to cuddle and give no thought whatsoever to how our kids will be provided for in case something happens to us. You talk about humility? Just do something stupid and you’ll feel humble soon enough. Popping out kids and then letting them sleep in a car is not something I have to feel humble about, because I happen to think parenthood should mean you think about someone besides yourself for a change. But that doesn’t matter because I’m just a big meanie who doesn’t have kids. Well these people shouldn’t have had kids either. And that is NOT the kids’ fault.
It is reasonable in this case to point the finger at the parent(s) – it IS their fault, and they DID do this to themselves. Worse, they did it to their kids. But go ahead and get mad at me. Especially those of you who have kids and are too dumb to buy a term life policy for a few measly bucks a month.
Yeah. Let’s point the finger at the parent who died when they were infants and the father who then had to raise them and did so working as a carpenter. Did their father cause the collapse of the housing bubble, or did the Wall Street bankers? The Wall Street bankers got bailed out and enriched, while the hard working carpenter raising two kids got kicked out of his house.
After seeing how intelligent, strong and well adjusted those two kids are, you can understand what a fantastic father he must be.
PJ would be excellent as a Chinese one child administrator. Damn fornicators having children!!! Are there no abortion clinics?
Ebenezer: I wish to be left alone.
Sure, that makes him a criminal.
Funny how it’s always the people who take PJ’s view on personal responsibility and having children who would outlaw abortion.
Isn’t that just so FUNNY?
Gone to join Colma in the pit of disgust and disillusion. Hopefully he’s got a bottle of decent booze stashed down there.
Admin, didn’t you hear? Abortions have been outlawed. In fact, coitus is now by permit-only. Only the privileged are allowed to fuck.
Don’t be too hard on PJ… she’s practical and in a way right.
Telling dude and his kids that now doesn’t help the situation or adress the fact that our society is going to fucking shit.
Its a symptom and its fucking sad.
Colma
Just the usual friendly banter on TBP.
Like those dumb ass OWS protesters, the lazy ass bums. If they’d just get off their asses and get a job everything would be fine. And don’t get me started on those starving Africans, if those dumbasses would just EAT SOMETHING they wouldn’t be in that situation. Morons.
indiejen says:
Wow. I just love reading comments like Pirate Jo’s. It’s so wonderful to live in a society in which everyone simply points fingers and says “It’s your fault. You did it to yourself.”
I blame the effing G.I. Generation .sometimes mistakenly referred to as “the greatest” .
Sure ,great at towing the statist line.
Fascism rides into town flying a flag and bearing a cross and tens of thousands of brain dead fucks jump aboard to ride the glory train into never never land whilst the women and children are left behind to fend for themselves.
JA nails it here.
Pearl Harbor Caused the Financial Crisis of 2008
http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/11/pearl-harbor-caused-the-financial-crisis-of-2008/
The trend is toward higher unemployment, higher numbers on food assistance and living at or near the poverty line, and greater income and wealth disparity. It’s hard to reverse 20 years of fucking the middle class.
So, let’s study Greece and all reach the same conclusions; the socialist welfare economies are unsustainable and countries cannot continue to borrow and spend indefinitely.
The fix for Europe is the same as the fix for the US, decentralize and pare public spending. The economy is doing fine, it’s government which must cut spending. However, not before enacting pro US jobs policies, tax reform to force corporations to pay their share, and pass a balanced budget amendment.
The Tea Party and OWS are protesting the same injustice. TPTB don’t have an answer, which is why Ron Paul should be elected the next POTUS.
Wow. PJ is getting a serious ass-kicking.
Stupid parents. If they’re reduced to living in a car, why can’t they at least get a really cool one? Like below.
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“Steve Kantor admits that he likes to travel in style. He is an affable investment banker, concerned about flaunting his wealth, but he drives around Manhattan in what looks like a simple black delivery van. ”
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“The most popular model is made by Mercedes: a stripped-down, basic version of the van, the Sprinter, starts at $41,315; Mr. Kantor’s version, which Mercedes-Benz Manhattan arranged to have customized, is fitted with satellite television, a Wi-Fi network and flat-screen monitors, and sells for $189,000. Even that is not quite enough for some New Yorkers, who employ designers to install even pricier custom details that easily drive up the total cost to $500,000.”
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/nyregion/rich-new-yorkers-are-driving-custom-designed-cargo-vans.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1322504504-AICfqzimBy9RrH/H6WdCaQ
I agree with you, Colma: Our society is going to fucking shit. It’s a symptom and it’s fucking sad.”
However, I disagree with your assertion that PJ is right. She is just another one of millions who feign omniscience in judging the circumstances of others. This is the major element of the pathology of our social decline. It’s what has enabled the eradication of the middle class to take place in front of our eyes. It’s what has given rise to the sociopaths of Penn State. Such contempt for humanity is chilling and cannot be allowed to stand unchecked.
PJ’s expressed viewpoint is pure linear thinking. It is myopic as well as self-congratulatory. It’s about as insightful as those who watch Jerry Springer so they can feel better about themselves.
Now is the time for everyone to get of their high horse. When the collapse comes, you’ll have a shorter distance to fall if your feet are already on the ground.
God, what a bunch of apron-wringing pantywaists.
Indiejen, you clueless 13-year-old, what on earth makes you think I would outlaw abortion? I’m not a “conservative,” I’m a personal responsibilitarian.
I had an employer-provided term policy when I was in my 20s. Not that I needed it, since no one was relying on me for support. My parents were in their late 20s when they started having kids, and they got a life insurance policy. You think getting a term policy for 20 years is some huge, expensive undertaking – the premiums would be less than twenty bucks a month for the whole family!
Heaven forbid we expect people to exercise some prudent fiscal discipline when it comes to … I don’t know … taking care of their own kids. This situation was totally avoidable.
I wonder why your parents decided to worsen the earth’s population problem by having useless parasite kids. How stupid of them.
I’m sure they immediately purchased the life insurance after the birth of the 1st child. Good story on the internet.
Nice thread.
So, why the hell aren’t they on welfare like everyone else?
I saw a girl of 22 today. She has four children already, and gets more welfare money the more children she has. Then, when they get old enough, she will file for disability for them all, for behavioral problems because there is no dads around (they all have different dads). Some of these welfare moms demand to take 2-3 year olds to ped psychiatrists to get them diagnosed with a problem that will qualify them for disability. Can you imagine, a three year old child considered by the Federal government to be disabled? I don’t know what they get, but I’m sure it’s over $10k per year (4 x $10k = $40k per year, plus welfare plus SNAP). She’ll be making more money than people with decent jobs.
Stuck:
I hope that fucker has his Benz van bulletproofed.
Self-congratulatory? You know, that’s not a bad idea. I’d feel so great about myself if I patted myself on the back every time I didn’t make a no-brainer mistake. Let’s see:
1) Didn’t stick fork into light socket. Check!
2) Didn’t eat yellow snow. Check!
3) Didn’t pop out kids I couldn’t afford. Check!
Wow! This works! Soon I will have earned a trophy.
Didn’t pop out kids you could afford. Check!!
Die alone. Check!!
PJ:
The government encourages and pays you to pop out kids (if your a woman). No need for a job, a husband, you just have to find a sperm donor. Kids don’t need dads, just sperm donations. The people that are dumb enough to actually get married and have kids (men) will get ass-raped for 18 years when their wife runs off and takes their children, and then gets 30% of every dime they make. It’s great to be a woman of breeding age in this country. You never have to work or follow common themes like respectability, morality, whats best for the children or ethics. You can do whatever the fuck you want, and get paid to do so, thanks to our government and legal system.
“I don’t know what they get, but I’m sure it’s over $10k per year ” — AWD
You are waaaaay off on that number. Way off.
There are about 1.1 million people on SSI for psychiatric reasons. (page 4 on below link)
Average payout is around $360 per month (page 5)
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v58n1/v58n1p3.pdf
==========================================
Also, is a lot garder to get SSI than you might think.
“The Social Security Administration has four basic standards for determining disability:
Earnings —— Generally, if you make $900 a month or more in 2007, you will not be considered disabled. Some expenses directly related to your and that enable you to go to work may be deducted.
Severity —— If your condition does not interfere with basic work-related activities, your claim will be denied. SSA must consider all your severe medical problems in combination, so make sure you tell them about each medical problem that affects your ability to work.
Checklist —— If your condition(s), either individually or in combination, meet or equal the medical criteria on a list of disabling impairments maintained by Social Security, SSA will usually decide your case fairly quickly.
Type of work —— If you cannot do the work you did in the 15 years before you became disabled, SSA looks to see if you can do any other kind of work, taking into account your age, education, past experience and skills. If you cannot sustain work, at a competitive pace, day after day, you may be found disabled.
Believe it or not, my parents actually did wait until they could afford kids before having them, precisely because they didn’t WANT us to be useless parasites. (Read AWD’s comments if you’re interested in that angle.) No disrespect to people with fertility problems, but my parents had both of us planned down to the month. They were debt-free and had a term life policy. Not rich, but not irresponsible, either.
And I don’t give a crap whether I die alone. I don’t need a crowd. I care a lot more about how I live the years of my life than I do about the five minutes it takes to leave it. What a dumb reason to have kids.
It’s a shame you won’t have kids to pass your empathy gene to. We need prison guards and guys to cut the heads off lambs.
PJ
The lucky ones die in “five minutes”. The not-so-lucky ones with a horrible disease like cancer can take years to die.
Do you really lack compassion, or are you just arguing for the helluvit?
I have compassion for people who are the honest victims of bad luck. In this case, I have compassion for the two kids. Their dad is probably a nice guy, and I’m sad that their mom died.
But I think having kids is a serious responsibility and people should have their financial protection in place. You don’t have to be rich to be able to afford kids, but you shouldn’t have them if it would require public assistance to take care of them – even if that means never.
Stucky, if you want to be technical, it takes all of us our whole lives to die. I’ve made it to what I estimate is the halfway point, and so far so good. I figure, if I’m broke and alone at the very end, there won’t be any money for a nursing home to try to get its hands on, and no relatives to stick me in one.
Stuck:
Nice reply, but kids get disability under a completely different set of standards. Adults get disability for more conditions, even depression. “I’m too depressed to work”. Who the fuck isn’t? I’m filing today, the government has unlimited money, so I’ll get paid till the day I die, right? It’d be nice to have a shiny new SNAP also, like everyone else at every fucking store and restaurant I go to.
Stuck: also, everything you posted are rules. The rules are interpreted by the disability judge, who is influenced and worked by the disability lawyer. There are more than 9 million people on disability, with 2 million more waiting to get in.
I’m happier than Scrooge on Christmas Day. Pirate Jo does have a heart.
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I knew it was in there somewhere.
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“You don’t have to be rich to be able to afford kids, but you shouldn’t have them if it would require public assistance to take care of them – even if that means never.”
But that would be unfair, racist, fascist. People should have all the children they want, no matter what, who the fuck cares if they can pay for them or not. That’s what welfare is for. More kids is more money for drugs and cigarettes. Fuck marriage, 40% of white kids and 70% of minority kids are born out of wedlock. God doesn’t care about the family unit, oh wait, he does. No wonder our amoral POS country is going to hell. And don’t forget greed, sloth, and gluttony.
It is possible to believe that A) The parents in this case were irresponsible for not getting life insurance before having kids, AND to also B) Feel bad for the kids in this rotten situation.
AWD, my sweety used to work in retail management and had a customer who got disability due to an “anger management problem.”
PJ: Life happens. We can plan and war-game every circumstance of our lives. Some things are just out of our control.
And you know, I think you know that and the idea scares the hell out of you. That’s why you are behaving like such a hard ass.
You’re frightened that you will end up just like the carpenter and his kids. You can’t handle that. So you are coming down like a load a bricks on fellow human beings who are no less smart, determined than you. You see yourself in them. You do.
Some people call it karma. Others luck. I think it’s life.
Do you think this woman, who married the man she loved could have foreseen that he would die young and leave her a widow? She would be forced to sell the home she lovingly created decades later? Her only child would become so troubled? Her faith no comfort?
http://www.northjersey.com/news/112611_Mother_son_found_dead_inside_Clifton_home.html?c=y&page=1
The holidays are very difficult for many people, PJ. You need to reflect on how you treat others and develop some empathy for fellow human beings. You do.
AWD
You make it seem like it is so easy to get disability … and then once you get it, to keep it. That simply isn’t true. It is quite difficult and the “payouts” are puny.
Arguing with you, I have long determined, is futile. You stick to your preconceived ideas come hell or high water … or facts.
Below link from ssa.gov is just the beginning of the “rules” you so easily dismiss. Bottom line is dealing with SSA is usually a nightmare and they do everything possible to deny, deny, deny. That’s why there are so very many lawyers advocating for people denied SS.
I won’t argue the point with you any further. People can checkout the link below, if so inclined, and draw their own conclusions.
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm
Indiejen:
No drinky today… maybe tonight.
I’d just post a bunch of Bad Religion and call flash a shit-eating boomer, anyway.
I’ll just work with my teeth gritting and wondering if I’ll get out of school before my body breaks.
“had a customer who got disability due to an “anger management problem.”
That sounds like Stucky. If you’re interested, Stuckenrager, you file and I’ll do the medical, I’ll only charge 20% of your back-wages check. Sound like plan?
Oh suck it with the woo-woo karma crap, Mary.
Of COURSE some things are out of our control. But THIS situation was avoidable. We do what we can with the avoidable stuff and don’t worry about the rest.
“You’re frightened that you will end up just like the carpenter and his kids.” I don’t know how you woke up from your narcotics-induced stupor and tied back the love beads long enough to spend five minutes projecting such nonsense. Be assured that I do not spend ANY time worrying about ending up like the carpenter. (I mean duh, as everyone is quick to complain about, I don’t even have kids.)
In the end WE MUST ALL FACE DEATH ALONE!
CHEERS!
and BTW
Happy late Thanksgiving to ALL TBPers.
Dagnabbit, MM, I didn’t know you were lurking… I try to be polite when you or Avalon are on the board.
hu*bris
noun
excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.
personification of hubris: Pirate Jo
Suck it with your hubris, PJ. Pride goeth before a fall, and you’re in for a hard one. Lucky for you there are still decent human beings like Mary Malone who will offer you a hand out of the ditch.