THE REAL REASON THE U.S. IS PUSHING FOR WAR WITH IRAN

Only a fool would believe the bullshit being spewed by our government and the MSM about Iran’s intentions. They will never launch a nuclear missile at Israel unless Israel does so first. I’m so tired of the propaganda about the Iranians wanting to cause a nuclear holocaust because of their religious beliefs. Their leaders know for a fact that if they ever launched a nuclear missile at Israel, their country would be obliterated within minutes. If this was their intention they could make it happen today by launching missiles at Saudi Arabia and the U.S. Navy in the Gulf. Why haven’t they done so? Because they don’t want to be obliterated. The entire cover story for forcing Iran into war is a crock of shit.

This article makes a great case for why the U.S. and Israel are forcing a showdown with Iran. They don’t need nuclear weapons. Their standard missiles are so accurate, they can actually defend themselves against Israel. The Iranians have proven to be a worthy adversary. They are technologically advanced enough to capture one of our predator drones. Obama and his neo-con friends in Congress think they know what they are doing. Nothing could be farther from the truth. These idiots are pushing the world towards a crisis that could spiral out of control.

Make sure you listen to George Galloway’s excellent rant at a caller into his radio show. When did common sense become such a rare trait in humanity?

The Real Story Versus the Cover Story             …by Mark H. Gaffney

  

Around a third of all oil shipped in tankers passes through the strait, and if this supply were disrupted it would out immense pressure on the rest of the world’s supplies.

 

Recently, President Obama imposed new sanctions on Iran which according to reports have been very effective, causing a sudden major devaluation of Iran’s currency. 

The Iranians correctly understand that they are under attack, and have threatened to respond by closing the strait of Hormuz, through which a large percentage of oil from the Mideast flows to the global economy. 

If the crisis deepens and Iran makes good on its threat to close Hormuz, there is little doubt that the US will intervene to reopen the strait. 

This will lead to a shooting war for which Iran will be blamed, even though the recent US sanctions were tantamount to overt aggression. 

Ed Note: George Galloway vs. the warmonger parrot who is no different to the current crop of warmongering US Republican Presidential contenders: 

 

I believe the US will exploit the situation to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities. But, even more importantly, the US will target Iran’s conventional missiles. Indeed, I believe this is the real reason for US sanctions in the first place, and for the buildup of tensions in recent days. 

Despite public perceptions, and all the rhetoric about nukes, the present crisis has nothing to do with Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program. In my opinion, that is just a cover story. 

The real issue is the fact that Iran has upgraded its medium range conventionally-armed missiles with GPS technology, making its missiles much more accurate.  

This means Iran can now target Israel’s own nuclear, bio and chemical weapons stockpiles, located inside Israel, as well as the Dimona nuclear reactor.  

In short, Iran has achieved a conventional deterrent to Israel. Therefore, statements by Iranian officials that Iran has no nuclear weapons program are in my view probably correct. Presently, Iran does not need nukes to deter Israel. It can do so with its GPS-guided medium range missiles. 

The Israelis are no doubt gnashing their teeth over this, because they now find themselves threatened by their own WMD stockpiles, and by their own nuclear reactors, especially Dimona, all of which have become targets. 

A few direct hits by Iran could cause a toxic plume, killing thousands of Israelis. A worst case might signal the end of the Jewish state. 

It is important to realize that Iran would never launch a pre-emptive strike on Israel because the Iranians know that the US/Israeli response would be devastating. However, if Iran comes under attack first, all bets are off. Iran will defend itself.

A counter attack on Israel cannot be ruled out because Iranian leaders understand clearly (even if the American people do not) that the crisis has been manufactured, on Israel’s behalf. 

From the Israeli standpoint, the present Iranian deterrent (though conventional) is simply unacceptable. 

Israel’s military strategists have always insisted on total freedom of movement. This is why Israel refused a US offer many years ago to sign a defense pact with the US. Such a treaty would have limited Israel’s freedom of movement, and this was unacceptable. 

Israel’s leaders preferred to remain independent. Israel has always insisted on the “freedom” to intimidate its neighbors, whenever and howsoever it chooses. Iran’s conventional missiles now curtail that “freedom.” 

Israeli officials probably worry, for example, that Iran’s conventional missiles would limit its freedom to attack Hezbollah in Lebanon, in a future conflict. Hezbollah is closely allied with Tehran. 

I believe the present crisis has been manufactured to create the pretext for a US air campaign to take out Iran’s conventional missile sites. The US will also target Iran’s nuclear facilities, but the primary target will be Iran’s conventional missiles. 

The US will be doing Israel’s bidding. The Zionist tail will be wagging the servile US dog. Obviously, you can’t generate public support for such a bombing campaign, on Israel’s behalf. 

Hence the cover story about nukes and the alleged Iranian threat to wipe Israel off the map, all of which is untrue but very effective propaganda nonetheless. 

The problem for the US is that depriving Iran of its conventional deterrent will not be easy to accomplish. Indeed, it will be even more difficult than taking out all of Iran’s nuclear facilities. 

Iran’s conventional missiles are probably dispersed widely. If they come under attack, the purpose of the air campaign will be transparently obvious to the Iranian leadership. Faced with the prospect of losing their deterrent, the Mullahs may well decide to fire their conventional missiles. 

If they do and manage some direct hits on Israel’s nuclear-bio-and chemical weapons stockpiles, the ensuing disaster will prompt an Israeli response.  

Israel may even resort to the Samson Option, and attack Iran with nukes. Words cannot describe the horrific scale of such an outcome. Unfortunately, it is all too possible. 

Early in the war, US naval forces in the Gulf will also come under attack. No mistake, Iran has enough anti-ship cruise missiles to pose a grave threat to the US naval presence in the Gulf. Thousands of US sailors are now in harm’s way, and at risk. 

We must rally to prevent such a war. Peace activists must now marshal every asset for peace that we possess. The American people need to know the truth. This is a phony crisis. Yet the danger is very real. Now is the time to speak out with all of our strength. Tomorrow could come too late. 


Mark H. Gaffney is an environmentalist, peace activist, researcher, and the author of The First Tree of the Day; Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes and Dimona, the Third Temple? His articles and essays have appeared in numerous journals, magazines, and newspapers. He lives in Chiloquin, Oregon.

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146 Comments
Hope@ZeroKelvin
Hope@ZeroKelvin
January 15, 2012 7:10 pm

@ADmin: Where is the link/citation for your 6:11 post? I find it very hard to believe that these “volunteers” did this of their own free will. Not with the human rights record of the ruling mullahs.

I’m sorry, I don’t think anywhere in my posts on this topic did I advocate intervening around the world, certainly not in Iran.

I do believe the US should support our friends who help us further US interests/trade etc. That’s just good business sense. The nature and limits of that support is a topic for discussion but you can’t just withdraw to the American homeland and shut the door on the world, not any more.

The problem is that right now we ARE involved in the ME and all over the world and to withdraw unilaterally will create a power vacuum into which every little petty warlord and tinpot dictator will step into – followed by China or Russia. For all our faults, I would rather have us as the world’s policman, however reluctantly, than these guys.

It doesn’t really matter, really. We are financially and morally bankrupt as a nation and are just about to receive a Smack Down of Cosmic Proportions. Nothing will really matter much after that becauz when we go down, the rest of the world will follow.

As I said before, this whole Iranian thing is just cover for continued looting by the banksters. Look around, Merkel is about to pee her pants in Europe, the Fed is considering QE3, Greece is about to default, there are capital controls in ITALY for fuck’s sake.

Hope you liked the movie.

Persnickety
Persnickety
January 15, 2012 8:36 pm

The US started fucking with Iran c. 1953 for no good reason, mostly because we inherited the imperial claims and dreams of the recently demised UK empire. The UK started fucking with Iran c. 1900, initially for normal imperialist reasons and soon after for oil. (Winston Churchill’s conversion of the fleet to oil was a major factor.) Iran, which was Persia before some effective Nazi influence in the 1930’s (in their logic, “Iranian” = “Aryan” or something like that), had no real interest in or power to project its will beyond its immediate vicinity. It just had the effective curse of major oil reserves, discovered relatively early on the oil era.

The current Iranians are fairly crazy, and oppressive, but that also describes the current and former US administrations and many others around the world. Assuming we used to have moral high ground, we sure don’t any more.

As for killing children, Iran sent some uncertain quantity of teenage boys into combat to get killed, two and a half decades ago. They probably were in fact volunteers for the most part, given the way that glorious war is easily sold to teenage boys. Not that much different from how it’s sold to our 17-18 year old boys who can’t afford or get into college. Are we insane and cold-blooded monsters for sending them to get killed or neutered by IED’s, all for the glory of draft dodgers and profit of banksters? Tell me we aren’t. Give me your cogent argument. As for Iran vs. Israel, one has a bad record of killing its own teenagers, the other one has a bad record of killing its neighbors’ teenagers and little children. Which of those is morally superior?

DaveL
DaveL
January 15, 2012 8:45 pm

On January 2 I packed away my computer, gave my two TV’s to my Mexican lawn guys and on January 4th got in my car and moved to Arizona. This is my first day back on this site. I’ve watched little news and read no newspapers. Either ignorance really is bliss, or you can escape all the gloom and doom by staying on the sidelines. If I had to judge by the restaurants, malls, and homes being built, I’d say that someone is getting this shit wrong.

SSS
SSS
January 15, 2012 9:46 pm

Admin

So I post mindless drivel, eh? Even after posting a DIRECT QUOTE from this shitbag George Galloway supporting the former Soviet Union.

Tell you what I’m gonna do. Given the 2 hour time difference between Tucson and Philly, I figure you’re going to be awake by the time you get back from the movie. Maybe you’ll read this, maybe not.

If you do, I’ll hold off further comment until after I know you’re safely tucked into bed and sound asleep. At which point I intend to hammer the living shit out of you and your propensity to post bullshit from assholes like Mark Gaffney.

Nighty night, Admin. Sleep tight. Don’t led the bedbugs bite.

llpoh
llpoh
January 15, 2012 9:46 pm

P – some of those kids were pre-teen. IMHO you cannot compare Israel wit Iran. Israel retaliates. And doesn’t keep pressing forward with its kids.

llpoh
llpoh
January 15, 2012 10:00 pm

SSS – I’ve softened him up for you.

SSS
SSS
January 15, 2012 10:00 pm

DaveL

Where in Arizona did you move to? Scottsdale? Paradise Valley? The Tucson foothills? Sedona? Prescott? Flagstaff? If so, no problem. Business as usual. Life goes on. People there have money.

When you have a chance, go to communities like Holbrook, Kingman, Safford, and the inner core of Phoenix and Tucson. Different story.

You need to reserve judgement on Arizona’s economic condition until you’ve been here awhile.

SSS
SSS
January 15, 2012 10:04 pm

llpoh

Thanks to you and Hope for inflicting sucking chest wounds on Admin. I’ll administer the coup de grace. Or not. He’s sweating bullets as I type this.

SSS
SSS
January 15, 2012 10:08 pm

[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPookBtI0rvTEg1MNyOUSsA9bP8dlJQTIlBDqU1eIhbnS2vLEpWg[/img]

howard in nyc
howard in nyc
January 15, 2012 10:39 pm

llpoh~
i did not bother to read this mess. irrational, insane, not to be trusted does not exactly distinguish the leaders of iran (or the people) from their international counterparts.

and you don’t think it is rational or sane for the usa to get involved in a war there. now i am clear.

like i said, i didn’t bother to read in detail, just skim. sounds like i missed a whole lot of bluster over nothing. another sunday on the platform.

newsjunkie
newsjunkie
January 15, 2012 10:44 pm

I think that the Obama and Netanyahu have the same puppetmaster. Remember, our military was very recently a tool of NATO, without approval by ANYONE other than Obama. All this talk about sovereign countries ignores the fact that supranational corporations and banking systems don’t give a shit about borders and the rule of law.

brann
brann
January 15, 2012 10:46 pm

so many people ready to blow the shit out of somebody.hope you all have your children signed up to die for another lie.it is time for you all to tend your own gardens–return to your roots and live as we were intended.you will never stop until ………… we are all dead…and that may be soon if you have your way…..obomba sure looks like bush….like the antichrist………..or just a psycho…………..fuck you haters of all living different then you.

llpoh
llpoh
January 15, 2012 11:14 pm

IJust so we are all clear – Admin posted this with the sole intent of starting a TBP shitfight.

brann
brann
January 15, 2012 11:22 pm

no–he posted it because he believes it is true–all you other assholes start the shitstorm.

AKAnon
AKAnon
January 15, 2012 11:35 pm

All I can say is, pass the popcorn. How we got here is entertaining and great sport, but where we are going is what matters most. Seems like most are in agreement that poking the Iranian beehive with a stick is not in our best interests right now. Does anyone here advocate intervention?

AKAnon
AKAnon
January 15, 2012 11:37 pm

BTW, Galloway may be a socialist/Marxist/douchebag, but he is fun to listen to-at least in this clip.

SSS
SSS
January 15, 2012 11:39 pm

brann

You’re a fool. Llpoh is correct. Admin posts this crap just to start a shitstorm among TBP visitors. Here’s the profile of the totally unqualified author of the article he posted.

Mark Gaffney is a researcher, writer, poet, environmentalist, peace activist, and organic gardener. Mark was the principal organizer of the first Earth Day at Colorado State University in April 1970.

Mark’s first book, Dimona the Third Temple? (1989), was a pioneering study of the Israeli nuclear weapons program. The book told the remarkable story of Mordechai Vanunu, the Israeli nuclear technician who endured a fate worse than death: the hellish ordeal of 18 years in an Israeli prison, eleven and a half of them in solitary confinement.

Between 1989-1993 Mark worked for National Audubon Society inventorying and mapping Oregon’s remaining old growth forests. Mark was assigned to five national forests in eastern Oregon. The maps he helped to develop are now a key part of the GIS database and are used every day in land management, and to protect endangered species and threatened ecosystems.

During the winter of 1991 Mark worked with Greenpeace to organize the No More Chernobyls anti nuclear conference held in Washington, DC in the spring of that year.

Mark holds a BS degree (Physical Science) from Colorado State University. He divides his time between rural Oregon and the San Francisco Bay Area.

llpoh
llpoh
January 15, 2012 11:39 pm

Brann – he taunted us. We came. You suck.

llpoh
llpoh
January 15, 2012 11:42 pm

SSS – you are too quick and beat me to it.

Shitfights – the lifeblood of TBP.

Novista
Novista
January 15, 2012 11:48 pm

dear brann

I’ve only skimmed — so save me time and name the names here and now that advocated blowing the shit out of somebody.

llpoh
llpoh
January 16, 2012 12:01 am

Novista – he much prefers making that stuff up. He can then feel righteous and indignat. The hell with the facts. Good luck getting a response out of him.

SSS
SSS
January 16, 2012 12:10 am

@AKAon, who said, “Does anyone here advocate intervention (in Iran)?” I can speak only for myself, but my answer is no.

Admin

How much more of this embarrassing beatdown can you stand? You post bullshit from a fucking bird watcher who links us to a hardcore British Marxist who sings praises of the Soviet Union. Fucking brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.

And, oh my goodness. You’re shocked, shocked I tell you, when people take exception to the article. Just like you planned it, right?

AKAnon
AKAnon
January 16, 2012 1:54 am

SSS-That is my point. As llpoh has pointed out (on several occasions), most of us are on the same page on what to do, we just have minor differences in exactly why. The battle royale is entertaining though. Carry on.

Bruce
Bruce
January 16, 2012 1:55 am

All this war business. Over and over. So many opinions. So many complexities. So many overlapping agendas. But the solution is quite straight forward. If we want it all to stop what we have to do is kill the bankers and the big securities dealers. Any more with the centralized fiat money systems war is as dependent on Bankers as the institutionalized contingent of the FSA is on the Gooberment. Putting the bankers heads on pikes may not solve all the worlds problems nor will it end armed conflict, but it would put a stout leash on needless wars that require phony money finance fraud and a great deal of other mischief.

Welshman
Welshman
January 16, 2012 7:39 am

Bruce,

Nicely put forth. Print money, make war.

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 16, 2012 8:22 am

@Persnickety 8:36 pm

Very well said.We who via invasion,naval blockades and bombing campaigns have murdered millions of innocent women and children have no foundation for fling in moral superiority in the face of any ,friend or foe.

That said , you left out one small fact . Colma’s Quesadillas are directly responsible for the death of 7 million west coasties during the Great Depression.I have that on good authority…… Or as they say after just one of Colma’s Queezies, ” where’s the toilet?”

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
January 16, 2012 8:27 am

I won’t argue that Iran does not have advanced technology but they did not bring our drone down. These drones are programmed to go into a safe mode of sorts when something goes wrong. Los off communication, mechanical problems etc cause the drones to go into an automatic, programmed spiral turn to the left or right shedding altitude slowly to bring them down in a controlled manner. Hopefully this happens over US controlled territory.

Notice how Iran displayed the drone with a cover, hiding the entire bottom half of the craft. My bet is that the undercarriage and lower fuselage was severely damaged in the controlled crash. There seemed to be ripples in the upper fuselage indicating a damage airframe.
I_S

Anonymous
Anonymous
January 16, 2012 9:18 am

SSS…You post bullshit from a fucking bird watcher who links us to a hardcore British Marxist who sings praises of the Soviet Union.

So after downing one of Colma’s cheezies , a Marxist “fucking” birdwatchers sez he’s got the shitz then he must be lying right ? After all , he’s one of them and we’re one of US, right?

Can the perceived natural enemy of one who spent his entire career in an agency known for complicity and deception speak no truth or is is just none that you want to hear?

Guess who else loved the Soviet Union and got US into a war that took the life’s of a half-million , mostly kid soldiers and cost US 300 billion.
Yes, you guessed right, spooky.that would be FDR and like most psychopaths , he had no more regard for human life than Lincoln,Wilson, Truman , LBJ, Poppy or Bush Junior, Mao, Pol Pot Lenin, dear old Uncle Joe Stalin, Hitler, or any of the current leaders in the ME the fear mongers currently loved to hate.
History clear evidences the chilling reality that a friend today can easily be transformed via propaganda into a useful enemy tomorrow and vice versa .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqonCo0A68o

“The massed, angered forces of common humanity are on the march. They are going forward – on the Russian front, in the vast Pacific area, and into Europe – converging upon their ultimate objectives: Berlin and Tokyo. I think the first crack in the Axis has come. The criminal, corrupt Fascist regime in Italy is going to pieces.” – in a Fireside Chat – July 28, 1943 Franklin D Roosevelt- Commie-N-Chief

“The world has never seen greater devotion, determination, and self-sacrifice than have been displayed by the Russian people…under the leadership of Marshal Joseph Stalin. With a nation that in saving itself is thereby helping to save all the world from the Nazi menace, this country of ours should always be glad to be a good neighbor and a sincere friend to the world of the future.” – during a Fireside Chat – July 28, 1943 Franklin D Roosevelt- Commie-N-Chief

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 9:49 am

Leave my quessies out of it, man…

flash
flash
January 16, 2012 9:52 am

IraQ with Western support invades Iran…..Good Juju…..IraQ invades Kuwait supposedly sans Western permission, Bad Juju…..

Poppy Bush Cumquat-n-Chief – Dick , get up off your knees, wipe your face and get me da’ Security Council on the phone.Saddam is off the reservation!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
UN resolution

Within hours of the invasion, Kuwaiti and U.S. delegations requested a meeting of the UN Security Council, which passed Resolution 660, condemning the invasion and demanding a withdrawal of Iraqi troops. On 3 August the Arab League passed its own resolution, which called for a solution to the conflict from within the League, and warned against outside intervention; Iraq and Libya were the only two nations in the Arab League which opposed a resolution for Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait. The PLO opposed it as well.[30][31] The Arab nations of Yemen and Jordan – a Western ally which bordered Iraq and relied on the country for economic support[32] – also opposed military intervention from non-Arab nations.[33] The Arab nation of Sudan also aligned itself with Hussein.[32] On 6 August UN Resolution 661 placed economic sanctions on Iraq.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 665 followed soon after, which authorized a naval blockade to enforce the economic sanctions against Iraq. It said the “use of measures commensurate to the specific circumstances as may be necessary … to halt all inward and outward maritime shipping in order to inspect and verify their cargoes and destinations and to ensure strict implementation of resolution 661.”[34]

http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/Iran_Iraq_War_Legal_and_International_Dimensions.htm
The importance of the Security Council’s recognition of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq as aggressor in the war with Iran arose from the message that was embedded in that recognition for the whole world. That message stemmed from the United Nations’ role in promoting the rule of law. Some 12 years after Iraq invaded Iran and 16 months following Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, the secretary-general announced a fact that the Security Council should have immediately proclaimed following the invasion of Iran by Iraq. Based on article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations, the Security Council is the main body responsible for protecting international peace and security. If the Council had recognized and announced Iraq as aggressor at the very beginning of the war, it would not have lasted eight years claiming about half a million lives and causing billions of dollars in damages. Iraq, on the other hand, would not have dared a few years later to invade its small southern neighbor and plunge the whole region in a dire international crisis.

Note: The above is a summary of Mr. Saeed Khalouzadeh’s doctoral dissertation entitled “Role of the UN Security Council in Iran-Iraq (1980-1988) and Iraq-Kuwait (1990-1991) Conflicts: A Comparative Analysis.” The thesis was prepared in 626 pages and defended on December 6, 2002, at Paris University of France. It was assigned the highest academic degree in France in addition to winning special recognition from the jury.

flash
flash
January 16, 2012 9:54 am

@Colma-

OK. Let’s hear it….what makes your Quessies so special?

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 10:28 am

Why, the sauce, of course…

flash
flash
January 16, 2012 10:37 am

@Colma,

OK. I’ll bite…what sauce?

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 10:47 am

Ha! I’ll do a post… I have to be drinking so I’ll square it away come Friday.

It’s easy….

Just need beer goggles to eye the ingredients correctly.

This weekend, promise… I don’t drink during the week.

brann
brann
January 16, 2012 10:48 am

if bullshit could be harnessed,we would be energy independent

flash
flash
January 16, 2012 11:27 am

Colma-Ha! I’ll do a post…

I’m looking forward to it.Seriously ,if you’ve got a good Quesadilla recipe, do tell. I’m seriously interested.

I consider myself somewhat of a good cook and do all sorts of bread fairly decent…even built and outdoor masonry oven fer da bread baking. I linked it to you before, but here again.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/Build-An-All-In-One-Outdoor-Oven-Stove-Grill-And-Smoker.aspx
I now cook entire meals on it ,bread, meat and side dishes et al….worth building for anyone looking to save cash on fuel, prep for energy shortage or just another excuse to get out in the yard and cook out..

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 12:04 pm

You built one? Awesome!

I’ll totally do the recipe. It’s easy…. they’re just quesadillas.

flash
flash
January 16, 2012 12:29 pm

@Colma

I had most of the material on hand, but I estimate if you had to purchase all the materiel ( except the tile) it’d run you around 600 hundred.
BTW, there nothing like bread and pizza cooked in a wood fired oven.

llpoh
llpoh
January 16, 2012 1:30 pm

Admin goes back 150 years to dredge up teenagers killed in the civil war. Were they unarmed? Were they clearingg minefields by walking through them? Bah. My example is from 30 years ago and include those currently in powere. Plus what the world now knows to beinsane has changed in recent times. War is hell. No doubt about that. But please – to compare RE Lee to the acts of Iran is laughable. Do you really think he would act like that – to send children unarmed against machinegguns against an enemy that had withdrawn? Nice try with tge smoke and miirrors. Defend insanity by pointing out other insanity. But try something closer – say theslaughters done by the mongols or somesuch.

You have lost again. Sorry.

Persnickety
Persnickety
January 16, 2012 1:50 pm

llpoh – you’ve lost this one. Insert another quarter to play again. The US and others have done an A+ job demonizing Iran since the Iranian people kicked out our brutal and worthless puppet “Shah,” but the underlying facts are that Iran is not any worse or crazier than dozens of other countries around the world, including our supposed close ally Saudi Arabia. The Iran/Iraq war stuff is portrayed as if kindergarten classes were being sent off to fight, but the reality was far closer to what has been done in all major wars of pretty much all time. Under-18 teens fighting for the US in WWII and the Civil War? Sure. Sending units including those teens to be cannon fodder for various reasons – all the time. It’s nasty, but it’s part and parcel of war. War is nasty. There is no such thing as a “good war,” and hardly ever a good reason to go to war. This doesn’t jibe with mass media and public education, of course, since those are tools to push the sheeple in directions useful to the owners.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 2:17 pm

This is becoming a classic TBP “No Wholes Barred” slingfest.

All we need is for an Iowan Pig Farmer to declare a premature victory to keep it rolling another hundred responses…

Flash: You’ve made me hungry for pizza. Dam you.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 2:20 pm

This is all the fault of archaic refusal to acknowlge bacon as a food group by these people.

llpoh
llpoh
January 16, 2012 2:37 pm

I have been so busy kicking Admin’s ass I have lost track of exactly why I am kicking his ass. Upon review it is because of his absurd statement that Iran would never use nukes because 1) they are such a peace loving country, and 2) they are rational and do not have a death wish. I have debunked these assertions at some length.

Peace loving Iranians – now there is an oxymoron. I will not dwell thereon as it is an indeed laughable idea.

Re there being no death wish I have pointed out that they are not rational or sane. They are headed by religious fanatics. They have a recent history of sacrificing their own children. They are simply insane.

Further, it is impossible to know what their internal evaluation would be as far as repurcussions for nuking Israel. Perhaps they judge there would be no retaliation. Perhaps they believe they would lose ten million and might find that acceptable payment for the destruction of Israel. Perhaps they think that they might defend an attack. We simply cannot say what they might decide. But to say categorically that they would not use nukes is unverifiable and an extreme leap of faith given all of these things.

That said I would still leave those bastards alone and to their fate.

I indeed claim victory. I have put Admin’s ridiculous position to the sword. His faith in the goodness of humanity may be admirable but it sure is misplaced. Even his examples point to this.

llpoh
llpoh
January 16, 2012 2:41 pm

P – I never lose. Sometimes, as Lombardi said, I run out of time and the article drops into the valley of doom. Just because there are other looney tune countries out there doesn’t men I am wrong about Iran. I deem just about EVERY Muslim nation to be equally nuts. I trust nary a one of them with nukes. How about tha Pakis – bastions of stability and reason.

llpoh
llpoh
January 16, 2012 3:18 pm

Admin. – I cannot help it. If your sycophants game thhe system. I notice the quality of your support includes the likes of brann and flash. Damn – some great minds there. Brann coulddnt spell cat if you spotted him the c and the a, and flash never met a topic where he couldn’t cut and paste a response.

On my side you have SSS and HZK (I think HZK anyway). They are worth an army of your bootlickers.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
January 16, 2012 3:18 pm

I hope you two are laughing at least half as hard as I am.

I noted the pic with the prez and Ahabaminijad… Ahabiminijad would be 2 feet shorter…. two and a half feet without his platforms.

Persnickety
Persnickety
January 16, 2012 3:30 pm

llpoh claiming victory!

[imgcomment image[/img]

Persnickety
Persnickety
January 16, 2012 3:31 pm

llpoh declaring victory

[imgcomment image[/img]