Obama has a lock on 5.4 million more votes in November. Why am I such a sucker? Why don’t I get myself laid off and collect two years of unemployment? Then when the unemployment ends I just use my diabetes diagnosis to get on SSDI for the rest of my life. It sounds like a can’t miss plan, and it’s only costing the American taxpayer $120 billion per year. It’s nice work if you can’t get it.
5.4 Million Join Disability Rolls Under Obama
By JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY Posted 04/20/2012 08:02 AM ET
A record 5.4 million workers and their dependents have signed up to collect federal disability checks since President Obama took office, according to the latest official government data, as discouraged workers increasingly give up looking for jobs and take advantage of the federal program.
This is straining already-stretched government finances while posing a long-term economic threat by creating an ever-growing pool of permanently dependent working-age Americans.
Since the recession ended in June 2009, the number of new enrollees to Social Security’s disability insurance program is twice the job growth figure. (See nearby chart.) In just the first four months of this year, 539,000 joined the disability rolls and more than 725,000 put in applications.
As a result, by April there were a total of 10.8 million people on disability, according to Social Security Administration data released this week. Even after accounting for all those who’ve left the program — about 700,000 drop out each year, mainly because they hit retirement age or died — that’s up 53% from a decade ago.
To be sure, disability rolls have grown steadily as a share of the workforce since the 1990s (see nearby chart).
The main causes of this broader trend, according to a study by economists David Autor and Mark Duggan, are the loosening of eligibility rules by Congress in 1984, the rise in disability benefits relative to wages, and the fact that more women have entered the workforce, making them eligible for disability.
Their research found that the aging of the population has contributed only modestly to the program’s growth.
But the big factor in the recent surge is the slow pace of the economic recovery after the severe recession. That has kept the unemployment rate above 8% and created an enormous pool of long-term unemployed and discouraged workers. More than 5 million people have been jobless for 27 weeks or more, nearly twice the previous high set in 1983, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
“We see a lot of people applying for disability once their unemployment insurance expires,” said Matthew Rutledge, a research economist at Boston College’s Center for Retirement Research.
The number of applications last year was up 24% compared with 2008, Social Security Administration data show.
As the Congressional Budget Office explained : “When opportunities for employment are plentiful, some people who could quality for (disability insurance) benefits find working more attractive … when employment opportunities are scarce, some of these people participate in the DI program instead.”
The explosive growth in disability enrollment also “helps explain some of the drop in the labor force participation rate,” noted economist Ed Yardeni on his blog.
In fact, the participation rate — the share of working-age people who have or are looking for a job — has fallen to 63.8% compared with 65.7% at the start of Obama’s term.
Ironically, this drives down the unemployment rate, which simply measures how many people are looking for work but haven’t been able to find it. When people quit looking or sign up for disability benefits, they no longer count as unemployed.
The problem is that few people who get on disability will ever participate in the labor force again. In fact, the vast bulk of those who exit Social Security Disability Insurance do so either because they hit retirement age or died.
As a result, the swelling ranks of the disabled can become a drag on the economy.
A White House report late last year noted that because “workers on SSDI rarely return to the labor force,” this can result “in a loss to society of the economic contribution those workers could have made.”
What’s more, the explosive growth in enrollment is not only increasing the financial strain on the Social Security Disability Insurance trust fund — which is scheduled to go bankrupt in 2018 — it’s boosting costs for Medicare as well, since SSDI enrollees can qualify for Medicare after two years. SSDI now accounts for more than 16% of Social Security’s budget and more than 15% of Medicare’s.
Reform ideas that would cut the ranks of those on disability have been bandied about for years. They include tightening eligibility rules, giving workers more options other than full-time disability and offering tax incentives for disabled workers to stay in the workforce.
The reforms so far have spurred little action. But with the program’s bankruptcy looming just a few years off, and with the economy showing no signs of producing a surge in jobs, that indifference to reform may soon have to change.
Very interesting debate… I will try to keep everyone up to date on my infiltration of the FSA.
The sooner we can collapse this farcical bullshit parade, the sooner we can rebuild it. Does it matter at this point what methods are employed to hasten the collapse? I completely agree that a large percentage of recent SSDI hangers-on are likely not truly disabled. But, short of wholesale rebellion, how else do we destroy the incestuous cabal of vampire squids? These people may be dipping their toes into the ocean of fraud that is this economy but if the result of such action is the collapse and rebuilding of a genuine republic and a sound economy, may we just as easily consider them useful idiots – as we are considered useful idiots by the shitbag elites?
“So now the argument is the entire SSDI spending and all entitlement spending as opposed to the those gaming the system…”
He says this as though the former was not the cause of the latter.
Bruce says: “But the elite for the most part are no more demented, criminal, evil, shiftless or brilliant than the rest of the herd. What distinguishes them is that they have benefited by circumstance, birthright, or serendipitous associations. The elite behave and do exactly what most all of the 99% would do if they traded places. The fish is rotten from head to tail. The thing to be concerned with is that most of everyone from the bottom to top are idiots, imbeciles, morons, dysfunctional wackos, delusional psychos, freeloading manics or criminals who are all in gauged in a mass clusterfuck that has no hope for a good outcome.”
One of the best, most realistic comment I’ve read on here(except for the in gauged thing).
“Administrator says:
I noticed randy didn’t address any of my questions about the timing of the upsurge in claims after I obliterated his Boomer bullshit.
This is common among ideologues. Their argument is blown out of the water so they change course with a new argument.”
No comment, I’m too stunned.
The quote of the day comes from David Burge at the Iowa Hawk Blog: “Apparently, I’m supposed to be more angry about what Mitt Romney does with his money than what Barack Obama does with mine.”
No, the 90 trillion dollar mistake was a typo. Because my son had sppilled pop on the keyboard my zero button sticks sometimes.
Once again, as opposed to speaking to the topics or substance of my posts, you yell in my face the same thing over and over.
My argument never changes. Baby boomer aging, with injuries sustained and covered up as to keep well paying jobs, stop covering up those injuries once they lose their long term good paying jobs, when faced with working for wages that are, often less than half of what those 40 to 50 year old workers have traditionally earned.
Do some research into what you believe the fraud at SSDI amounts to as opposed to throwing all disable under the bus. I believe there is less fraud there than just one insurance company (AIG) and two mortgage comapnies (Freddy and Fannie).
Your obtuseness towards my opinion is blinding you from the reality of the situation.
While I believe that it is multi national corporation using and abusing the bodies of workers to the point of injury, then discarding those workers and eleiminating their accessability to health care insurance, one could easily take the position that the actions of the government, Wall Street, AIG, ratings agencies, banks, and mortgage originators lit a fuse and blew everything up.
Thus injuring, economically speaking, not only everyones financial capabilities, but left a post traumatic stress disorder consisiting of an apathy to ethics.
If the big boys can get money for nothing, and I’ve lost my job, my unemployment benefits have run out, and I’ve had a bad kne for years, I do need some income to feed my two kids and two cats.
Screw my bank, my mortgage, and my representatives in Washington. Its bad enough I’ve got the government and the financial industry calling us deadbeats, or scammers (pots calling the kettle black), I have to deal with neighbours who buy the media propagand and denegrate anyone receiving money from the govnernment.
Anyway…I expect you to say the same thing again, even though I’ve offered more personal information than I intended. Its good to know that you have no one in your circle that is disabled or collecting any government entitlements at all.
Must be a nice life not to know financial troubles or injuries…
I bow away from your general direction…
randy
You’re a one trick pony. I’m not the one blinded to reality. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the SSDI ramp up began in the early 90s as the graph clearly shows. Boomers were between 30 and 50 years old, so your specious argument is completely 100% unequivically wrong.
The percentage of manufacturing workers is at an all-time low. These dangerous jobs that leant themselves to injuries only account for 8% of the jobs in the country. They have been replaced with paper pushing jobs, retail jobs and food services jobs. This transformation in our economy does not support your idiotic contention about work place injuries surging. The workplace is much safer today than it was in the 1970s when SSDI claims were flat.
It is a shame that people can be blinded by their one-trick pony view of the world. There is billions of fraud in the SSDI program, the SS program, the Medicare program, and the food stamp program. Just because bankers and politicians are stealing billions does not let the Free Shit Army off the hook.
I will say it again. Your view that it is alright for the average person to commit fraud because the rich are committing fraud is why this country will collapse under the weight of its own degradation.
Besides, the 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities isnt caused by fraudulent SSDI claims. It’s caused by politician not understanding how economics works, or how to improve the economy.
It’s caused by SSDI, Medicare, medicaide, welfare, food stamps, and the biggest of all Social Security.
All of which is headed for a much bigger ramp up in expenditures because of the baby boomer generation retiring.
More older people getting more benefits, because of the promisses made by those seeking election. We fall for it everythime.
New promises and the continuation of promisses equal electability, Promisses of cuts to entitlement equals no electability. Ron Paul is a great example of someone talking the right game, but cannot be elected because he wants to cut entitlements, and end wars.
That will not do in America.
Not so beautiful, if you ask me…
@Admin: Funny, the words PONZI SCHEME never ended up in that article you just posted.
I predict that SSI and Medicare will run out of $$$ money long before 2024. That SSI payroll tax cut isn’t likely helping neither.
I look at the entitlement spending as the oligarchy game of the wealth division. Of one for us , nine for me..
The clown car brigade keeps the hoi polloi occupied with entitlements while the big boys make off with the big score.
Regardless who broke the ho’s back .this pimp Empire will eventfully have to return production based growth or turn the Ho house sign off.
Sans blue collar jobs, those that live on the edge often have no other choice but to seek assistance in whatever form.
I don’t begrudge the poor saps for taking assistance, what I begrudge the dim-witted dupes for is for being so self-obsessed with their own personal petty bullshit, they allowed for the systematic destruction of the American Republic and the rape of the American dream by common thugs..
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Jesse on the oligarchs game plan.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/11/currency-wars-why-financial-engineers.html
As I have suggested in the past, the model has been to bring the system to a crisis, and then to have the bankers’ representatives make an 11th hour ‘offer which they cannot refuse’ to the people of the nation, as they did in the adoption of TARP in the US. ‘Adopt our plan, or suffer the consequences.’
And I believe that the Anglo-American banking cartel will make this same play again, but this time with Europe and the world. Financial crises are an effective tool in the mass redistribution of wealth and power, and often done in secret, making their appearance only at the offering of terms.
In a remarkably effective ploy of misdirection and mass persuasion, the kleptocrats and oligarchs have focused the attention and the anger of the middle class on the ‘welfare state,’ the poor and the elderly and the weak, under the moralistic banner of austerity. Meanwhile they are scooping up the income and wealth of nations for the top one percent, who are ironically portrayed as champions of freedom.
@Randy, you are amusing me.
1. We did care about rising claims under Clinton, I sold insurance for a few years back then (door to door), and I can tell you that, even in the early 90s, there seemed to be many more ABLE-bodied people sucking SSDI, then actually physically (even mentally) disabled. Thanks to Clinton a friend of mine got on disability because he was graduated from high school and could not read and write. Did the government try to educate him to “fix” his disability? NO. Did they sign him up for lifetime pay and medical (which he says thanks for the free high)? YES. Nearly 20 years later and he is still on the dole. He works odd jobs here and there, so he COULD work full time but it would take his free stuff away.
2. GDP and employment increased under Clinton because of the two, once in a lifetime, events.
Event #1, dotcom and the rise of the technology job. Clinton immediately went to work signing law that imported foreigners to compete with us while making it easier for “American” companies to offshore. Great calls.
Event #2. Y2K. Y2K brought with it hundreds of thousands of six-figure jobs. All created, trained and brought together for a ONE SECOND problem. By the time Bush took over, those jobs were redundant and/or unneeded and they were dropping like flies.
I love it when people idolize Clinton for the economy. A blind, deaf, syphilis-infested monkey could have “led” us through that “prosperous” time. That prosperity was COMPLETELY unsustainable, then the government enacted laws that GUARANTEED its untimely demise. Until, and unless, they come up with a product that EVERY business and household MUST have AND afford, then I don’t see that level of prosperity returning even if we elected Clinton himself to come back.
Funny how reality is always so much different from what we are told it is.
Anyway, just had to point these two things out, I’ll now return you to your flamefest with Admin.
Everyone is having to make sacrifices and those greedy disabled bastards and the old toothless grandmas collecting their dead husband’s Social Security benefit will just have to buck up and learn to grub for insects like those in other third world countries.
Do they think they’re better than the Chinese?
Wall Street Will Cut Bonuses in 2012, New York Comptroller DiNapoli Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-12/wall-street-will-cut-bonuses-in-2012-new-york-s-dinapoli-says.html
Wall Street cash bonuses fell 8 percent last year from 2009 as financial companies disbursed $20.8 billion. The average Wall Street cash award for an employee was $128,530 in 2010, a 9 percent drop that was greater than the total decline because the pool was shared among more workers.
Where does the money go?
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@ Flash
Ain’t a chance in hell , their a cowboy in Congress willing to break the entitlement bronco for two reasons
Flash that’s it, you are so correct and they never will, that’s why we print until we reach critical mass and then its game over and I have a real good idea this will not be an organized collapse, The entire US will end up looking like the south after the civil war it will take generations to rebuild, if ever. Detroit started the program early how’s that look- in up there.
Nice chart sense.
I never said it was alright. I never implied that it was alright. I simply argued that fraud in the SSDI system is pennies compared to the fraud of the banksters, and politicians.
I also did not imply that Clinton was the next best thing to sliced bread. It was his and his administration actions that enabled the investment banks to put themselves into a position that required direct bailouts by taxpayers, as opposed to the usual corporate welfare of deductions for private jet use.
I understand how you want to acuse me of being a one trick pony, buy I continue to bring new things into my arguments, and those arguments are based on information gleaned from and missing from the original post.
But at the end of the day according to any char you want to bring up, the SSDI fraud (which is not the entire SSDI budget) pales in comparrison to the fraud associated with a 700 billion dollar bailout of not only American financial institution (the real number is closer to 14 trillion, with much of it going to FORIEGN financial institutions).
Look at it this way: My neighbour is a deadbeat and fraudulent disability claimant stealing about 1300 per month in benefits. My banker is a deadbeat zombie banker, only in business because of a 5o million zero interest loan. My insurance company continues to raise the premiums on my home even though its value has compressed 25%. And I can’t get a raise because there are ‘lots of people who will do your job for less’ as my boss says…
Out of the above legitamit issues, that all bother me to a certain extent, the one that bothers my and my family the least, is the deadbeat next door…
My problem is with attitudes that point fingers in one direction to obfuscate the big picture by pointing out mosquitoes…
peace…
randy
You need to gain some perspective. There is a total of $6.3 trillion of Federal, State and Local government spending per year in this country. Fully $2.8 trillion of this spending is for SS, Medicare, Medicaid and other entitlement programs. If 10% of this spending is for fraud and other abuses and waste in the system, that would be $280 billion PER YEAR. These are the pennies you are referring to. I’m glad you’re not concerned.
I would contend that 10% is far too low. Are you making an arguement that fraud, waste and abuse in the system is 1%? If so, then we don’t live in the same country and it will be no use trying to convince an ideologue with a storyline that $280 billion is not pennies. You can verify my spending figures at this website. You see, on TBP we deal with facts not opinions about what constitutes fraud and the definition of pennies.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/
I love how right winger blame Detroits fallout on democrats…
Its another one of those ‘missing the forest for the trees’.
I believe that Detroit would be exactly the same if it would’ve been republicans taking care of it.
What broke Detroit was not politics per say. It was PPP. Public Private Partnerships that allowed corporations to break union shops, offshore production, and eliminate tarrifs on imports. And strangely enough, all of those actions did not lead to outsized profits, they led to losses.
Fraud is not right. But it is much easier for me to understand the fraud of a relatively poor person fraudulently claiming disability payments to pay rent and put food on the table, than it is to understand the fraud of rich people, bankers, insurance companies and politicians who by all accounts, are just ripping off the system and don’t need that money to put a roof over their heads or feed their families.
Its disgusting. I wasn’t intending on a flaming contest. I just get riled up when the problems of society are placed on individuals ‘getting over’ for a coupld a grand, when its obvious that our corporatocracy, are the biggest welfare frauds in the universe…
The rich are putting the lowest of society at each others throats over pennies, while they sack away the gold…
Sorry…it’s the truth.
Every urban nightmare city in America has been under the complete control of Democrats for decades.
Randy is really revealing himself now. Only a liberal douchebag could try to blame republicans for Detroit, Philly, Cleveland, Newark, etc. when the democrats have driven all the working middle class and businesses out of the cities with their massive taxation and transfer to the Free Shit Army.
Randy is so embarrarassed, he isn’t even owning up to being randy anymore.
Randy is living the liberal dream. It’s OK for the lowlifes in West Philly to commit fraud and get government checks while they drive Cadillacs, talk on their iPhones, and watch their satellite TV.
I love getting to experience the mind of a liberal on TBP. It is so enlightening.
At least the fradulant disability claimant isn’t breaking into my house to feed their family…
But union gas still (a utility owned by my municipality) says that i used the most gas this winter in March, even though March was the warmest on record. Shoot, April has been colder than March…
Whatever…
“At least the fradulant disability claimant isn’t breaking into my house to feed their family…” – randy
No they are committing murder all over West Philly because the food stamps and SSDI aren’t enough to pay for their drugs.
“In a remarkably effective ploy of misdirection and mass persuasion, the kleptocrats and oligarchs have focused the attention and the anger of the middle class on the ‘welfare state,’ the poor and the elderly and the weak, under the moralistic banner of austerity. Meanwhile they are scooping up the income and wealth of nations for the top one percent, who are ironically portrayed as champions of freedom”
Exactly…
Anon
I was not really referring to any one post but did quote flash. The point I am trying to make is, if we are printing money to pay the bills what the hell difference does any of it make. Bottom line our whole system top to bottom is one giant fucked up mess. A fraud is fraud, you can put lipstick on a pig it’s still a pig.
When we quit paying the FSA it’s over, when they get hungry the war starts. And I think it’s too late, we are riding a runaway train and we are quickly running out of track.
Anybody who knows and deals with SS and SSDI clientele know that it’s reverse of admin’s stats. Maybe 10% are valid; people that are truly disabled and can’t work. They have mental and physical problems that actually prevent them from being employable. It’s more than safe and accurate to say 90% of SSDI recipients could very easily work, and are too lazy, too fat, believe they are in too much pain, and are parasites, literally, useless eaters. 90% of people on disability could answer phones and use a computer, and/or occupy a cubicle someplace. Many could do manual labor. They system is a joke, period. The democrats would have everyone of SSDI, free shit votes for more free shit and more democrats.
AWD
Randy prefers his liberal dream world. He hasn’t been on the site long enough to realize we have doctors commenting on the site who actually see the fraud every day. We can smell bullshit from a mile away. Every additional post from randy gets more oderous.
He prefers the MSNBC – Paul Krugman liberal fantasy world where facts don’t matter.
It’s the storyline that sells your ideology that counts.
The solution to the SS problem is to raise the retirement age to 75 so that fewer jobs will be available for younger people. Or create more jobs for young people by lowering the retirement age to 55 and causing the SS fund to go bankrupt tomorrow. There is no winner in this, onlt disaster from the two edged sword.
Randy obviously doesn’t actually know any SSDI recipients, oh yea, one. They WILL be the zombies breaking into his house to feed themselves when the SNAP cards and free shit quit flowing. What a dumbshit.
Anon
Fuck, I hate Republicans and Democrats, I tout no party line. I consider myself a sovereign nation of one.
“Public Unions Bankrupt Illinois: Unpaid Bills Top $9 Billion as Comptroller Reports “State Treading Water”; Mish’s Eight-Point “Bold” Plan to Save Illinois ”
Of course it was the unions fault. Management and executive don’t sign contracts….Mayors and councilman have no say, nor do they sign contracts.
Lalala…
If you want to get rid of unions, why don’t you just get rid of the people negotiating and signing contracts with them?
That damn unionized employee of the government just declined my disability claim. Freakin unions…I’m gonna hire that lawyer I saw on tv…
Back to our regularly scheduled program…
Shovel food into your face, and be rewarded with free cash, more food, free housing and, most importantly, free healthcare and meds, which you will most certainly need, because you have destroyed your health. But at least you don’t have to work anymore.
“EEOC now claims obesity is a disability under ADAAA. The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) now claims obesity is a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act Amendments Act (ADAAA). Until now, the courts have routinely rejected general obesity as a “disability” under the ADA and Rehabilitation Act. Cases have required one to show some different underlying medical condition that is a disability and that causes obesity as a “symptom.” Now the EEOC has filed suit, claiming that a company discriminatorily fired an employee because of obesity. The EEOC claims that ever since President George W. Bush authorized the ADA Amendments Act in 2008, the law has a much lower threshold for what constitutes a disability. The EEOC claims that basic obesity, without any other underlying condition, sufficiently impacts the life activities of bending, walking, digestion, cell growth, etc., to qualify as a disability or perceived disability. EEOC v. Resources for Human Development (E.D. LA.2010).”
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THEN THEY APPLY FOR SSDI
Yes, dipshit, unions bankrupted Illinois. Unions bankrupt everything and everyone they touch.
Liberal dipshit union assholes, and the lawyers and criminal politicians they support.
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Prog Randy, aka “anonymous” is the guy in the green shirt above, feeding his lovely wife.
Anon This may help
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Anon, I’m a Michigan native, born and bred.
I’ve lived in the same county as Detroit for 15/16 years.
I own a business here.
You do not have ONE freaking clue as to what you speak.
The unions KEPT their jobs as they slaughtered the small, private, paying, non-unions to keep paying for their bloated pay & bene packages. They did it and THEY KNEW they were doing it.
Detroit has, has had, and continues to have, MORE city-paid workers per resident than cities the size of New York, LA and Miami. Guess you also believe that Detroit just magically needs more people to do the same job. Privatization, what a freakin’ joke, too little, way too late.
The DEMOCRATS and the state UNIONS, along with the Big 3 & Pharm/Chem unions have KILLED OFF THE REST OF THE JOBS & small business TO FEED THEMSELVES. They didn’t care (like you) that they were slaughtering the only people that truly PAID and carried the cost of their great wages and Cadillac packages.
Keep believing that stealing from the privately productive to gift to the publicly slothful, wasteful and corrupt will somehow, someday, work.
Maybe in BizarroWorld, but not here in the real one.
When collapse happens it will be fools like you that smile and shout down the rational while the jackbooted “saviors” from the government starve you to feed themselves.
Hate to admit I’m kinda looking forward to a great number of people having their eyes forced open. Even though my own children will suffer right along with them.
At least my kids will be prepared for reality and work to avoid the fates people like you beg for.
You’ve got you small fry parasite., the recipients of Medicare/Medicaid and then there’s the super bug parasites, the criminals in the equation i.e. heathcare professions who defraud American taxpayers of of billions each year and drive up cost of healthcare.
At least we can see the fat people and make wide berth , but the cockroaches skulking behind the MD smock.,they’re the real ass rapers of American taxpayers..
http://www.naturalnews.com/035199_Medicare_fraud_doctors.html
Texas doctor accused of largest Medicare, Medicaid fraud scheme in US history
Saturday, March 10, 2012 by: Jonathan Benson, staff writer
(NaturalNews) Medicare and Medicaid, the two largest government-run health care programs that cover health services for elderly, disabled, and low-income individuals, cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars a year just in fraudulent claims. And an ongoing crackdown on such fraud being undertaken by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has revealed perhaps the largest single-person case of Medicare and Medicaid fraud in U.S. history.
Jointly established by both DOJ and HHS to investigate such matters, the Health Care Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Action Team (HEAT) has exposed a massive health care fraud scheme in Texas that involves $375 million in stolen taxpayer dollars. Dr. Jacques Roy had reportedly been operating a practice called Medistat Group Associates in DeSoto, Tex., where he allegedly engaged in routine acts of fraud, which included paying poor and homeless individuals cash sums in exchange for them agreeing to use their names to file bogus Medicare and Medicaid claims.
Actually I have enjoyed this sit for quite a while. I even click on banner to try to get the owners paid.
And I never tried to blame republicans for Detroit. What I said was that it wouldn’t have mattered which party ran Detroit (into the ground).
What I said was that it was politician and corporate greed and mismanagement that waylayed Detroit.
Next you’ll say it was unions and forget that management signs contracts with unions…
You can keep calling me names, and putting words in my mouth If you like. You can keep changing your goal posts. It brings to mind a quot “thow portests too much”. Its a very telling sign that you are forcing yourself to believe one side of the drivel that propaganda machine doth spew.
Politicians on both sides protect the entitlement and porkbarrel plutocratic facism that siphons wealth to the top one percent, while 99 percent fight each other for the left overs.
Context man. An SSDI fraudulant claim amounts to pennies per month, again, when compared to corporate welfare, political pensions, and a revolving door of business to government (to fix rules), back to business (to exploit new rules).
I can agree to disagree. As I do, more often than not, with people who refuse to compromise when faced with information that they choose to ignore, ignoring the fact that they look ignorant when they act like they believe that everything that falls out of their mouths are basic facts and are absolutely right.
Your argument that SSDI, or even general entitlement fraud is more then mere pennies, I grant, but your argument that this is Americas downfall, is sadly mistaken.
And no, I’m not American. While the rest of the world likes the ideal of the US most of the rest of the world, except for maybe Quebec and Israel, think the American government is pathetic, idiotic, dangerous, incompetent, and will be the downfall of your country.
All this shit about fraudulent SSDI but nothing about the military industrial complex that spends more on defense (offensive defence at that) than the rest of the planet combined.
There should be a large peace dividend, shared by all American citizens, that may preclude some entitlment fraud, as opposed to spending trillions chasing ghosts in caves…
randy
You clearly haven’t been reading this site for a long time or you would know that I go after the Republicans, Wall Street, and the military industrial complex with equal or more vigor than the entitlement state we’ve become.
Fascinating that you aren’t from the US.
If you are from Europe, then open your eyes to what promising more than you can ever deliver has caused. Coming to America in the near future.
I love when people question whether facts are really facts, even though they are backed up. During the course of this dialogue you have provided opinions using terms like pennies and making $90 trillion errors in your argument.
I’ll leave it to others to decide whether your opinions have legs to stand upon.
“Dr. Jacques Roy had reportedly been operating a practice called Medistat Group Associates in DeSoto, Tex., where he allegedly engaged in routine acts of fraud, which included paying poor and homeless individuals cash sums in exchange for them agreeing to use their names to file bogus Medicare and Medicaid claims.”
Exactly…
A doctor in the free shit army? no way…
Randy.
Almost everyone in the USA is in the FSA. They get welfare, food stamps, entitlement money, subsidies in one way or another, or they defraud the system. Even the business that otherwise don’t think they are subsidized are subsidized because they don’t pay a living wage. For workers to have the same purchasing power they had years ago minimum wage would have to be 16 or 17 dollars. Its not and government subsidizes businesses who pay low wages by giving workers food stamp, all kinds of assistance and low wage programs so they can get by. Just because you work, have a job or run a business does not mean your not in the FSA. I just received the wood to build a China cabinet to match a dining room table and chairs. The customer is retired, has a great pension and lives well. He does not need his SS checks to live on and uses them to buy nice stuff like this cabinet and other things I’ve built for him. So I’m earning money indirectly off the SS system. This is the case for much of what business I get these days because these kind of folks are the only ones with the money to spend. If I build a deck, porch, addition, new cabinetry, or any project large enough that I need a helper I hire guys for about $100 a day. We generally work a 10 hour day so that means about $10 per hour. So that puts me in some section of the FSA too. There is no escaping it. Almost everyone if they think about honestly can draw a connection to the FSA either directly or indirectly if they think about. And that is a big problem. The government is so large, centralized and so involved that the threads of dependency touch almost every family in this nation. When the system implodes it will spell disaster for everyone even those that are doing what they can to make it through the shit storm. Welcome to the Thunderdome. We are doomed.
Flash
I am sure there are cases of fraud in Medcare and Medicaid, but over all Doctors do not want Medicare and Medicaid patients. Many will not take on any new cases, I know my primary care Doctor will not, if you have Medicare or Medicaid he will send you on down the road. There is no money to be made taking care of these patients, many, many Medicaid patients are noncompliant with their medications anyway. The Doctors and Hosptial get denied payment for not dotting and
i in the paper work. Stay healthy cause its gettin crazy, Doctors are going to start working for CASH UP FRONT ONLY, then see what happens.
The dog jumped on my laptop and sent that, LOL, Oh well I guess its readable, well as readable as any of my other posts.
That should have said dotting an i in the paper work.
sensetti
Neither SSI nor SSDI recipients could get qualified for a government check without the approval of a doctor and I hardly think that 11 million check cashers are using the same doctor which begs the question how many doctors are currently complicit in scamming the US taxpayers out of billions of dollars?
The medical profession has no monopoly on integrity or honesty and I speak from personal experience when I say I wouldn’t trust a pill pushing medical pimp as far as I could throw Chris Christie.
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last shot.
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Guys, SSDI status is determined by a “disability examiner”, aka a doctor on the state or federal payroll, not by docs in the community. We just get harrassed for our medical records (for which the patients do not have to pay the $25 + copying fee that the Tx state law says we can charge for medical records).
Most of these SSDI seekers get a lawyer to intimidate the disability examiner, threatening to sue under the ADA act, or one of the bizillion other statutes. The disability examiner does not want to have any aggro on their 9-5 cush job or have to go in front of the administrative law judge, so jhe/she just signs off on whatever.
Now, as to Medicare/Medicaid fraud, lordy, how much time do you have. There is so much fraud and waste and duplication and administrative overhead in these systems it would make your head spin, and, drum roll please, there is absolutely zero interest in really weeding it out. Having a smaller, more efficient system means you have less state/fed employees, a smaller budget and LESS POWER.
So, all this reform talk is just bullcrap – and these “reforms” are just a way to bankrupt the private side and bring the entire industry under the control of the fed.gov, period.
Government controlled healthcare: The efficiency and competence of the Post Office with the compassion of the IRS, all at Pentagon prices.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
HZK
Per Randy, its just pennies. Don’t worry.
Hope,
In my family I have educators and doctors and both whine about the unfairness of the system.
Educators whine about the no child left behind and lack of discipline bullshit and doctors snivel about the medicare/aid red tape crapola ,but neither group stands up to do a damn thing about the abuse .
I ask them why don’t you people say enuff is enuff and shut the system down with a organized strike until you get true reform, but the answer is always the same.I’m just one person so I’ll just whine and take it up the ass like a good little tax slave.
Hey’ I can’t blame the docs on the state payroll. If you can’t beat ’em…..especially when the lot of your colleagues are sniveling milksops.
All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVdB-UKfxD4
Bow down or be bent and broke….
The unaccomplished and uneducated need enablers to scam the system and the enablers need the system -they created- to bleed the taxpayers.
I have neighbors with college degrees who come from very wealthy families and subsequently had the political connections to get very well paid positions in state and federal government. The all retired in the mid fifties , with very nice pensions to supplement their family farming operations for which they all receive farm subsidies .Their names are all on this database for government handouts.http://farm.ewg.org/
Also ,every one, down to the last man has opted to draw their social security at 62 , just for some throw around mad money.
And the real pisser is that the pampered bureaucrat , gentleman farmer class never fails to bitch and moan at ever opportunity about how those on welfare are robbing this country blind. They fail to see the irony of their whine and all despise that “nut” Ron Paul for wanting to change a damn thing.
Those powder puffed buffons want their man Romney in the WH to turn the cash spigot back on them.
Like Bruce said in his comment above everyone is connected to free shit whether they want to admit it or not.
If not for a the military providing many the economy of many small rural towns would simply vanish along with hundred of thousand of civilian jobs provided.
Between a rock and hard spot with a broken back is where we find now find ourselves and no help is forthcoming as far as I can see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4
Again, the 10 was supposed to be a 100, but I’ve already explained that typo.
Again sens points out the obvious that I didn’t. SSDI claimnants would need a doctors note…
I never said that you don’t go against republicans.
I said I disagree with you hypothesis on this argument. Thats all.
You’re the one getting all riled up…I’ve been reading here for a couple of years. Almost everyday. It’s in my top ten favorites. Right after zero hedge and right before Global Research.ca.
And with all the name calling, accusing and finger pointing, I believe I’m have the right to call you a jackass…
Thanx anyway
randy
You have the right to call me anything you like. I think I’ll rely on the facts presented by Hope Zero Kelvin and AWD who are in the front lines of dealing with SSDI and Medicare. Reality bites. But don’t worry, its only pennies.
Hope is entirely correct. The disability lawyers make some serious cash. They get up to 50% of “back wages”, whereby SSDI recipients get up to 2 years of back pay, which can amount to $40,000 or more, in one check. I’ve seen people that never worked a day in their life get checks for $35,000 after their lawyer get their cut. It’s absolutely disgusting. The fucking lawyers are making billions per year, and disability lawyer mills are all the rage these days. They run endless commercials on T.V.
And, btw Randy, I’d estimate that 30% of disability recipients do work, off the books, or self employed, and collect their SSDI, SNAP, housing, free medical care and meds. I posted an article a while ago where 144,000 disability recipients were found to be visiting 4 or more doctors a months, getting massive numbers of pain pills, and selling them, sometimes for up to $12,000 per month tax free. Disability recipients are very ingenious people; in how to rip off others and live the good life.
According to this site, lawyers can only charge up to 25% or 6 thousands bucks max a SS disability claim.
and the payment to the hack is all handled by the SS administration , so how else would the shysters profit.
http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/question16.html
How Much Is the Attorney’s Fee?
For Social Security disability lawyers, the fee is limited to 25% of the past-due benefits you are awarded, up to a maximum of $6,000. Note that the attorney will be paid only out of your past-due benefits, or “backpay.” If no back-dated benefits are awarded, the attorney will not receive a fee; nor is he or she permitted to ask you for one.
It doesn’t usually cost you anything to hire a disability attorney; the fee will be paid out of the disability award you eventually receive. Some attorneys, however, will ask you to pay a nominal amount for costs (see below) at the beginning of your case.
When do you have to pay the attorney’s fee? Usually, you don’t. The SSA takes the entire lawyer’s fee (up to $6,000) from your first disability check (your award of backpay), before the agency sends it to you.
FYI
http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/question19.html
Lump Sum Back Payment
SSDI claimants almost always also receive certain amount in past due benefits, or backpay, payable in a lump-sum payment. You can receive back pay from the time you filed your application, plus as much as 12 months retroactive to this date. Whether you’ll get a full year of backpay depends on when you became disabled. Your disability onset date (when your disability is decided to have begun) drives your date of entitlement to benefits (which is five months after your onset date, due to a five-month waiting period). So if your onset date if 17 months ago or more, you’ll receive a full year’s backpay. In any case, backpay can amount to thousands of dollars simply because disability cases take so long to be decided.
Again, besides lawyers, doctors are always required for both perscription and disability claims.
Y’all can continue to blame the claimant, but they are getting help by people who should know better.
Quite a bit has been said back and forth on this issue. One side wants to blame the people receiving entitlments, while the side I support is that officials – doctors, lawyers, and politicians – are more to blame, and have more to gain, by supporting entitlement fraud.
So, in closing, we areee to disagree, but I leave you with, what I believe, is an excellent expose on the real reason the US is declining and dragging the entire planet back to the dark ages, once the reserve fiat currency implodes…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/money-power-wall-street/
peace…
“while the side I support is that officials – doctors, lawyers, and politicians – are more to blame, and have more to gain, by supporting entitlement fraud.”
Lawyers and politicians, yes, doctors no. Go fuck yourself. The fucking lawyers and criminals in Washington and state capitals enable fat, lazy POS people to live free and clear while collecting free money and free everything. It’s a joke, and these people will come after you when the free shit stops flowing. I’ll give ’em your address, so you’ll be their first stop.
Randy looking coy:
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