LLPOH’s Brief, Unofficial History of Palestine/Israel

There is nothing as difficult as getting people to agree on the history of Palestine/Israel. Most histories you see are slanted dependent on whether they are written from the Jewish or Arab perspective. Following is a brief history, written largely by memory, that I believe hits the high points. Please do not get too hung up on the exact details, as it is not intended as a scholarly work.

The Jewish people go back around 4000 years or so. They inhabited Judea. They were an agrarian people, by and large, but certainly were also warlike at times. The first “diaspora” began around 586 BC, when Judea was conquered by the Babylonians. Very large numbers of Jews were forced to flee. Large numbers of Jews did remain in Judea, especially in the historic areas such as Jerusalem. The next major hit to the Jews came when Rome sacked Jerusalem in 61 BC, and in 135 AD Jews were driven from Jerusalem by the Romans. This further spread the Jews far and wide.

In approx.. 600 AD, the Muslims conquered the Middle East. They remained in control until around 1100 AD, when the Crusaders took Jerusalem and the surrounding environs, and the Crusades lasted around 200 years, when it all reverted back to Muslim control. This remained the same until Napoleon conquered the area, forcing both Jews and Arabs to flee.

An interesting phenomenon occurred roughly around 600 AD. The Jewish rabbis began to strongly encourage education. Prior to this point, the Jews were largely an agrarian people. By memory, there were approximately 5 million Jews world-wide at this time. Over the next centuries, that number dropped to approximately 1 million. One reason for the drop is of course famine, pestilence, etc. But another reason is that many of the 5 million simply left Judaism as they could not adapt to the new reality of needing to be educated, and the cost of educating themselves and their children. Eventually, the Jewish people transformed themselves into a people that are almost entirely educated, with a culture valuing education. They became very successful at business owing to their almost universal levels of education.

The Zionist movement commenced around 1900. This was a result of becoming emboldened by newly acquired freedoms and rights gained in Europe, amongst other reasons. They began to establish settlements in Palestine. Arabs began to flock to the areas around the settlements, perhaps in even larger numbers than the Jews that came, as the new settlements, run by the Jews, offered jobs and a higher standard of living and better conditions than they had elsewhere. Jews began to buy land – they did not “take it”, but bought it. By 1914, Palestine had around 700,000 inhabitants, of which approx.. 100,000 were Jews.

After WWI, the British and French carved up the Middle East primarily for their own purposes. They made conflicting promises to Jews and Arabs. The Arabs signed a deal granting the Jews a homeland (1919), which the Arabs reneged on, as Britain reneged on a land deal with the Arabs (Britain promised parts of Syria to the Arabs, but gave it instead to the French). Jews continued to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers, and Arabs followed them for the work on offer.

The League of Nations created Palestine about 1919. This is roughly the land currently known as Jordan and Israel. The French got Syria. In around 1920, the Arabs began to attack the Jews, as they 1) became fearful that the Jewish immigration would eventually see the Jews outnumber the Arabs, and 2) JERUSALEM. Always there is the issue of Jerusalem. Very serious attacks were made against the Jews in 1920, 1921, and especially in 1929. The Hebron massacre is especially gruesome and noteworthy. The Haganah became more and more active, and were not especially delicate in their activities toward the Arabs. Jewish migration exploded in the 1930s, owing to increased persecution of Jews in Europe. In 1936, the Arabs attacked the British, where thousands of Arabs and hundreds of Jews were killed.

In an effort to appease the Arabs, the British decided to limit the numbers of Jews allowed to immigrate to Palestine. This did not work, and it turned the Jews against the British. The Jews assassinated Lord Moyne who was tasked with limiting the Jewish immigration. That turned Churchill against the Jews.

WWII ends, and 6 million Jews have been killed. World opinion shifts, and a Jewish homeland is pressed for. Partition of Palestine occurs in 1947, where Jerusalem is to be under UN control, but it is surrounded by Trans-Jordan (Arab). The Jews accept the partition, but the Arabs do not. The Arabs begin making threats toward the Jews. At this point there are 600,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine. On May 14, 1948, the Jews declare the Jewish state of Israel, and all surrounding Arab nations go to war against Israel, intending to drive the Jews out of Palestine.

And it is here that the Palestinian issue as it is known today really begins. Approximately 400,000 Arabs leave Israel, primarily at the urging of the Arab nations. Please read that statement again – the Arabs left at the urging of the Arab nations! This is so that they would be out of the way during the slaughter of the Jews, and they could return after the Jews were eliminated. The Arabs were unsuccessful in their war on Israel. The Arab nations, upon being unsuccessful, unanimously agreed that the 400,000 displaced Arabs would not be granted sanctuary in any of their nations – the displaced became homeless. This was despite being urged to leave by those same Arab nations. The UN compounded the problem by granting these Arabs “right of return”. A great many of these Arabs – the bulk in actuality – were not land owners, and were recent immigrants into the area, taking advantage of the economic situation the Jews were providing. It is especially interesting to note that those Arabs that did not flee by and large still live in and own their homes in Israel, and have largely not been persecuted by the Jews.

The next major incident was the 6 day war of 1967. There is much controversy over the exact events, but these are the basics: Arafat called for the elimination of Israel; PLO promises to expel all Jews from Israel; Jordan and Egypt sign pact and ready for war against Israel; Iraq joins the pact; Israel prepares for war and enters state of readiness; Israel determines ultimately that it cannot maintain its war-readiness indefinitely, and so ultimately makes a pre-emptive strike. It quickly wins the war, and seizes the Sinai, Golan Heights, Gaza. 1.2 million Palestinians fall under Israeli control.

Israel quickly offers to return most of the seized land, with a few exceptions they deem logistically important to protect against any further Arab aggression. The Arab nations refuse the offer. Israel falls under more hawkish leadership (Golda), and the offers are withdrawn. There have been ongoing wars/skirmishes ever since (Yom Kippur war, etc.).

So, that is the history in a nutshell. The Jews began migrating to what they see as their traditional homeland around 1900. It was but a desert wasteland, with few occupants. There is some indication that prior to their immigration, the wasteland had a majority of Jewish inhabitants. Arabs began to follow the Jewish immigrants in extremely large numbers owing to the economic benefits. The Arabs became concerned about the ever increasing Jewish numbers in land they believed to be theirs, and became aggressive. The Jews responded in kind. The British and French, but particularly the British, made a mess of things owing to their deceit and self-serving attitudes.

There are a few key turning points that have driven the entire issue: 1) Jerusalem, 2) the Arab refusal to accept the partition, 3) the failed attack made on the new state of Israel and the resultant displacement of 400,000 Arabs, 4) the refusal of any Arab nation to grant these 400,000 sanctuary, and the UN declaration granting these 400,000 right of return, 5) the ongoing aggression towards the state of Israel, 6) the refusal to accept the return of the Sinai, etc after the 6 Day War (that opportunity has now passed, and the lands are now integrated into Israel and I doubt they can ever be returned).

Prior to the Jewish wave of immigration into Palestine, it was a wasteland, and really had no formal borders nor was it a country or part thereof – it was Ottoman, but was of little consequence, save for the religious significance of Jerusalem. The Jews made it a desirable bit of property. There is ever possibility that the Jews were the largest proportion of inhabitants in the area prior to the immigration push, and thus have a pretty good claim on it with respect to it being a Jewish state. The Arab population only really blossomed as a result of the Jewish push.

Who should control the area? Who are the rightful owners? I do not know, nor really care. It is what it is. But in my opinion, it has almost never been the case that the Jews were the primary aggressors. At the moment, they are still capable of defending the land of Israel. And they are still not being granted right of existence by the Arabs, and are continually under threat.

It would behove all and sundry to avoid the entire area, and to let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately, the issue of oil will always play a part in the political posturing. Eventually, I am afraid something bad that way goes.

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110 Comments
Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 12:30 am

Muck, as always, makes total sense. He is 100 per cent correct. The offers are no longer on the table – too bad so sad. If Hamas keeps firing those “bottlerockets ” ( range is around 30 miles and are deadly, but fortunately are not accurate, or the shit would really hit the fan), they are gonna get a bloody nose. Howver, Hamas is fighting a war of attrition, and may well prevail in a long enough timeframe.

Stuck delivers a nice swift kick.

SAH delivers stats far outside the mainstream. Stats for any position re Palestine are available. Hers come from the Palestinian perspective. I try to vet mine just a tad more. She talks about the “Jewish invasion” bringing medical care, but discounts the probability that the Arabs moved closer to such care to take advantage of it. That is laughable.

The Jews moved to low population areas, and came in great numbers. So did the Arabs once they figured out the Jews knew about medicine,commerce, and running water. Her position just does not meet the sniff test.

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 12:34 am

Stuck – I will be happy when the US gives me back Mississippi and Florida. If I were to start firing rockets from the rez out onto neighboring houses, do you think they would give them back to me and the rest of the Choctaw?I suspect not. I suspect I would get my ass whooped (Wounded Knee springs to mind).

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
November 15, 2012 12:51 am

llpoh said: Colma – you are right on every count.

Does that mean you acknowledge the existence of astral mullets?

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 12:57 am

I have no idea what an astral mullet is. A fish? A hairstyle? A constellation? Some weird sexual activity? Me and my big mouth.

Stucky
Stucky
November 15, 2012 1:11 am

astral mullet gone wrong
[imgcomment image[/img]

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 1:17 am

Yikes!

randy
randy
November 15, 2012 2:04 am

llpoh

You’re the idiot…

Why is isreal so important to the american government?

is there something majical in isreal?

For some reason you freakin americans give them everyting they ask for, they are armed to the teeth, they’ve been killing arabs for over fifty years, and you justify that bulshit because you say, or they say, they are being attacked by rockets?

They are under threat of imminent iranian nukes (which have been imminient for what 20 years now?).

I love how freakin idiots who have belifes, and not facts call other idiots for having an opinion…

Isreal was taken from someone and given to someone else, much like the history in the states where land was taken from native americans and given to settlers….

And when them pesky indians got uppitty, the got shot, or moved, or were given smalpox infected blankets….

You LLpooh, have no moral highground, or bully pulpit to be so freakin rude to people participating in a debate you opened with history written by the victor…

The zionists…occuppying…

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 2:44 am

Randy – a clueless moron. History is what it is. I do not advocate giving them a damn thing. Where the fuck do you get that idea. Can you read?

randy
randy
November 15, 2012 3:14 am

ya…

History is written by the victors…or did you miss that idiom?

You advocate Israel’s version of apparthied, and you support their right to kill non-Israelites…

SAH
SAH
November 15, 2012 3:33 am

The only thing I agree with Llpoh on is that Muck’s comment is correct – Palestinians ended up on the wrong side of History here and to the victors go the spoils.

Fuck ’em, I haven’t any particular concern for the palestinians, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was their homeland for many generations – the Jews were the outsiders. Any objective, rational person can easily see this fact – the Jews invaded.

@Llpoh – I cited census data – collected by the Ottomans in 1905 and the British in 1922 & 1931. I don’t know how you could claim those statistics to be biased and “pro-Palestinian”. I also cited the Jew’s own immigration numbers by country from 1948-1995. All 3 sources (Ottoman, British, Israeli) show the exact same thing happening at an accelerated rate over time — foreign Jews taking over an area with a multi-generational native Muslim population. You, on the other hand Llpoh, give your own unsourced opinions. (Although the source of your opinions is clear enough – Zionists).

@Stucky – the point I’m making is that the Jews mass immigrated into the area and took it over. They invaded, flooded it with people from other continents and countries, and began this at the same time as the Modern Zionist Movement – well before WWII. The Muslims who lived there had been there for unbroken generations. I never said Israel should have to give any land back to anyone, but I have no sympathy for Israel and it is quite clear and logical why their Arab neighbors are fucking pissed. The Arabs/Muslims had been living in the area for unbroken millennia, with a very small Jewish minority. Then foreign Jews flooded the region and established a hostile Judeoentric religious hegemony with millions more foreign Jews continuing to migrate there – and posess the only nuclear weapons in the region and are expanding.

Zionist apologists like Llpoh buy into the ‘Jews Ancestral Land’ bullshit, and make excuses and make up fiction for what happened, going so far as to say the area wasnt even populated, that there was probably a Jewish majority living there already, that the Arabs actually immigrated there following the Jews etc etc. Its all bullshit, with no factual basis. It’s clear that foreign Jews who had been living in other countries and on other continents for many generations decided to go reclaim land that Yahweh promised them about 4,000 years ago. Because of this mass immigration/invasion/takeover their neighbors hate them. Because we Americans have some convoluted Judeo-Christian belief that God promised the land to Abraham/Isaac/Jacob/et al and all their descendants for all time, we have the “Llpoh” type Zionists in America who think that the Jews didn’t invade, and who will make every irrational excuse while never admitting what it is clearly going on – Jews from other continents took over land that belonged to ‘Palestinians’ and their ancestors for the past 1000+ years. Llpoh *claims* he isn’t a Zionist, but I don’t believe him. He’s twisted everything around to write a decidedly pro-Zionist piece of drivel, and denies plain objective fact as well as the best 3rd party data we have, in preference of fiction to suit his Judeophile intellectual dishonesty.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
November 15, 2012 5:57 am

My internet was down most of this evening. I will just post this 35 yr old 60 minutes interview between Mike Wallace and the Shah of Iran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kySR3fpa5s

intj
intj
November 15, 2012 6:59 am

A land without people for a people without land only works if the land were truly empty – something that IMO has not been adequately vetted but whose veracity an entire nation was constructed upon.

The indiscriminate carving up of the Middle East for the benefit of the oil companies – and the subsequent political meddling and gaming on the part of America and Europe – is something I fear will be problematic right up the day we no longer need oil. None of them, including Israel, are choir boys. There are two or more sides to all the wars and I’m sure we’ll never know the truth.

I’m disgusted with our dependency on foreign oil which necessitates dealing with our installed Ottoman Empire infants, tyrants and despots and I am tired of being Israel’s bitch.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 15, 2012 7:47 am

History is what it is……… whatta a cop-out excuse and since when did Lloph get to decide what the correct version of History is. Neither side is blameless in this. The claim that not one person was driven from homes by the Jews prior to 48 war is laughable and I’m calling bullshit. It doesn’t matter anyway there is a thing called International Law which is hard to grasp for Israeli apologists that trumps whatever excuse is made for confiscating property. It is never really enforced because to the victors go the spoils. Just ask Native Americans and Germans from East Prussia how international law worked for them. Anyway who cares the whole fucking place should razed to the ground and started again and if Netananyu gets his wish and starts war with Iran it could happen. Get the popcorn maker out cause I turned on CNN this morning and it looks like the monkey show is about to commence.

Stucky
Stucky
November 15, 2012 10:39 am

WHY???

llpoh, a venerable Big Dog, took a lot of time and effort to post what he believes is accurate. Why attack llpoh as a person? Why not simply challenge the ideas?

Why do some have a knee-jerk reaction — Zionist Apologist!!! — whenever anything positive, no matter how benign, is said about Israel?

Why don’t those who hate that Israel acquired land via war also hate America who acquired 100% of its land via confiscation? Or, for that matter, why don’t they also hate the literally thousands of instances in history where one nation takes land from another nation?

Why do people insist that America has a right to defend its borders, and then get pissed off when Israel does the same?

Why do some people insist that Israel is not our friend, and act like the Muslims are?

Why will you haters think I am pro-Israel, and vote down this post? What does that say about you?

Why can’t we all just get along?

randy
randy
November 15, 2012 10:47 am

Funny how its another Canadian handing Llpooh his bullshit back to him in a burning paper bag…

I find it utterly ridiculous how the american government, and thus americans, can, out of one side of their mouth, support Israel apparthied, and out of the other side support Saudi Arabian mysogyinism…

Talking heads talk about Lybia, Syria, Egypt, Hammas, Muslim Brotherhood etc…

But these talking heads supported the policy of TPTB who supported Mubarak, Ghadafi, and Sadam,Assad when it suited them….

Freakin hypocrites…

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 15, 2012 11:40 am

Stucky Attack LLoph as a person, seriously. I did nothing of the sort. I respect his views on this and I’m trying to be civil. He’s the one calling people morons and idiots for not falling into line and agreeing with everything he believes. I’m also not a hater of Israel so I’m not going to vote down your post. I do find it hard to believe that every single greivance of Arabs living in that region can be dismissed out of hand by people who have obvious bias in favour of the Jewish State. Personally I do care how they aquired the land. That always ends up being the fallback position anytime someone cuts to the quick and challenges the acquistion of land and whether it is in accordance with international law. Sure people in Israel can turn the question around and say you did it in the Americas so why can’t we do it too. It’s a valid point but where does it end. My ancestors where driven off the highlands of Scotland. They came to Nova Scotia and whether by hook or crook took land from natives here. I had no say in that decision but should I have to move back to UK because someone decides today that I shouldn’t be here. I don’t think so. Same applies for anyone living in Israel.

The endgame, I think, is sooner or later a smart Palestinian politician is going to realize that all he has to do is reject the two state solution and demand equal voting rights for every resident living between the Jordan River and Mediterranean. He be able to take country over without firing a single rocket. As they say in Quebec “La Revanche des berceaux” in it’s purest and most ultimate form.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 15, 2012 11:43 am

edit

Personally I do NOT care how they aquired the land.

ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
November 15, 2012 1:21 pm

@Rob “He’s the one calling people morons and idiots for not falling into line and agreeing with everything he believes.”

To be fair, calling someone a moron is hardly a personal attack on this website.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Touché TPC Touché

Thinker
Thinker
November 15, 2012 1:42 pm

When it all comes down to it, Israelis and Palestinians are people who want the same things. For the life of me, I don’t understand why they don’t force their leaders to stop this insanity.

[imgcomment image[/img]

story

Bruce
Bruce
November 15, 2012 2:23 pm

Thinker,
Kill all the bankers around the world. We would shortly see irreconcilable differences become reconciled in peace more often. Hate and Hostility is a business model.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
November 15, 2012 3:31 pm

Troops trained together on Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system, the latest version of the US Patriot, and the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system, which was jointly developed by the two allies.

During the exercise, which lasted more than three weeks, violence between Israel and Gaza militants flared twice, with groups in the Palestinian territory firing hundreds of rockets into the Jewish state, some of which were intercepted by the Iron Dome system.

The exercise was expected to cost around $38 million (30 million euros), with Washington covering more than three-quarters of the total cost.

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 5:09 pm

Thanks Stuck. I wrote this as I see so many who are clueless and do not understand the ral history. They base opinion on made up stuff and then sell it as truth. I do not advocate giving Isreal, or the Palestinians, a damn thing.

Re the population, the censuses are as good of info as there was but it is wildly inaccurate.

Palestine was a large area, and the area which became Israel was a sliver of it. In 1900 there was about – about being key – 500k people in all of Palestine (which included Jordan, Isreal, etc). The vast bulk were not in Israel. Say, for argument sake 400k outside Israel and 100k in. In 1947, there were about 1.8 million in all of Palestine – of which 1.2 million were in Israel, and 600k in the entire remainder of Palestine. The tiny little sliver of Israel had grown fron virtually zilch to 1.2 million.

Almost ALL of the inhabitants of that little sliver had migrated there, largely since 1930. When the Arabs attacked Israel in 48, 400k, about, Arabs left Israel on the urging of the attackers, and around 200k stayed.

SAH says the 400k were native to the area, which is bullshit. The claim is Israel displaced Arabs, which is also bullshiit – the place was largely empty before they began to arrive.

But what is forgotten is that the area was not Arab – it was BRITISH. They won it from the Ottomans. They governedit, and ultimately split it up as they saw fit – giving the vast majority of it to the Arab population of Palestine, and gave a sliver of it to the Jews. The jewish area did not include Jerusalem, which was jointly held.

On the very day Israel was created, the Arabs declared war on it. The Jews defended their land. And have done so since.

I am not making any argument as to what should have happened. This is what did happen. The Arabs lost a war and lost governance of the land – which was largely ungoverned and was tribal at best in any event. The victors eventually carved up the land as they saw fit. They returned the vast majority of it to the Arabs, but they wanted it all and have waged war for it ever since.

It is common throughout history. Land ultimately belongs to those that can hold it.

But I get sick of the people saying it has been the Jews who are the aggressors. They were given land and they have defended it. They did not steal it, and as a generalism they did not evict inhabitants, at least until 1967. If the Arabs can take it from them, so be it. I expect the Arabs will win a war of attrition eventually.

Llpoh
Llpoh
November 15, 2012 5:11 pm

TPC – i thought it has been fairly reasonable. Taxslave and I had a bit of fun. He said fuck you and eat shit! I mostly just called him a moron – I took the high moral ground.

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 15, 2012 5:35 pm

Justifying the actions of one side or another in this is like trying to shine a turd. Rub all you want but it can’t be shined and one just ends up smelling real bad.

llpoh
llpoh
November 15, 2012 5:43 pm

Rob – as I have said, I am not trying to justify anything. I do not however like it when people do justify their positions based on false facts. And there is a lot of it going around. The biggest lie is that Israel has been the aggressor. They have been under constant attack – in fact since the first day of their existence. Are they angels – no way known. But the Arabs have never ever tried to make peace – they want all of the land and will settle for nothing less. So be it. War is the result.

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 15, 2012 6:19 pm

There are plenty of aggressors to go around. Remember the Jewish State has a couple of hundred nukes pointed at god knows who. As far as being under constant attack or threat of attack sure I agree. So have the residents of West Bank and especially Gaza. I have no doubt there are some deserving Hamas leaders who need to be sent to hell but there are just as many absolutely innocent civilians that are caught up in this on both sides. All one has to do is read story Thinker posted earlier. If this was anywhere else in world people could sit down and have a rational conversation. But because it is the birthplace of three religions it won’t happen now and never will. It’s like the abortion debate one side presents their argument and the other abhors it and vice versa. This is no different. I still think demographics will overtake the Jewish State sooner or later. I personally don’t think that is a bad thing. People said South Africa would never survive the end of white rule but it did. The main reason is the vast majority of people everywhere are decent and want to get along. That said, it is pretty hard to do when government of Israel and Hamas are putting so much effort into radicalizing the opposing popuations on both sides of this fence. I think the policies are short sighted and self serving. Throw in prospect of a Nuclear Iran, arming of Hezzbolah in Lebanon with better missiles, not to mention Syria is now turning into Lebanon à la 1970’s on steriods and you have a shit show of epic proportions. The only thing we are missing is the band to start playing but I’m guessing the Russians are working on sourcing the instruments from some slave labour sweat shop in China.

taxSlave
taxSlave
November 15, 2012 6:33 pm

“TPC – i thought it has been fairly reasonable. Taxslave and I had a bit of fun. He said fuck you and eat shit! I mostly just called him a moron – I took the high moral ground.” +1

It was fun – but seriously, I do respect your effort in writing the article and cannot find fault in your history.

My point is (I am sober now) is that both sides are killing innocent people, and my government is funding it. It sucks. It appears to me that Israel is more of an aggressor, though I could be wrong – I am not there.

I do take offense at the murder of the American woman by a bulldozer standing in front of a palestinian’s house, the American man executed on a relief boat, and the killing of American sailors on the Liberty by the Israelis. BTW – “our” bought and paid for government did nothing in response. Makes me damn proud.

I am not aware of american citizens killed by Palestinians – if there has been I would be pissed off about this too.

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 15, 2012 8:08 pm

AWD just proved my point. A little smelly and no funny.

AWD
AWD
November 15, 2012 8:12 pm

And what point would that be?

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 15, 2012 8:38 pm

Innocent people are getting killed and you post that. Anyway I presume from that post that you are blindly following the IDF tweets today as well. They are loaded with laughs too! Check them out when you get a chance.

crazyivan
crazyivan
November 15, 2012 9:50 pm

After recovering from a 28 hour Ann Barnhart marathon I fall into this pile of shit.

What is wrong with you people.

First LLPOH with his FACTS. Not just facts, but the REAL FUCKING FACTS>

Moving on…

Taxslave:

“My point is (I am sober now) is that both sides are killing innocent people, and my government is funding it.”

Reading this line carefully makes me wonder what the meaning of is, is. Is it that your point is that you are sober now and we should all pay attention, or is that your government (now that you have sobered up a bit) is killing people. Granted, Bill Clinton did open up the “is” word for us all.

Stucky says:

WHY???

llpoh, a venerable Big Dog, took a lot of time and effort to post what he believes is accurate. Why attack llpoh as a person?

….. Well Stuck, the reason is, is that LLPOH has talent and knowledge, and about the only way to vilify him is to spin him up to where he self destructs. That, and it’s just a fun fucking thing to do.

Lastly,

Caution: driver may be offended by just about anything- AWD

This is the universal bumper sticker.

TPC
TPC
November 15, 2012 10:06 pm

@Rob in NS

“Innocent people are getting killed and you post that”

No appreciation for gallows humor I see. Should we transition into holocaust jokes then?

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 15, 2012 10:18 pm

@TPC

Sure why not go for it. I suppose we should give equal time to bad taste. Just try and make it funny and if that cannot be done jump the shark so to speak.

randy
randy
November 15, 2012 10:28 pm

“the british WON it from the Ottomans…”

Facts or not, you logic, reasoning, and language are all off…

The British took it, and decided how to carve up lands where there were indigenous people present, who had no say….Much like they did in India and Pakistan…Or in Africa…Or like the Europeans who can to North America…takiing land from people who were already here…

How would americans like it if some came there and ‘won’ a portion of it, occupied it, then divied it up amounst themselves without a care of what the ameericans thought?

Sorry, your not that adept at critical thinkin…

On a completely different tangent, why would the jews want to make their homeland in the worst posible area of the planet for them? Where they would constatly be on the defense, where there were little resources, or even topographical advantages against the “infidels”…

Better yet, why would the british shoehorn them in there…in the midst of their mortal enemies…

Now that’ll make ya think…

rob in nova scotia
rob in nova scotia
November 15, 2012 10:57 pm

@AWD and TPC I take it back I had just read the Thinker story that was posted earlier and feeling abnormally sensitive to human suffering. If you have any good Holocaust jokes I’m still game. Maybe I should get DVD copy of Shoah. That was a non stop laughfest if I remember correctly. As for jumping the Shark with this thread don’t bother it was done about 87 1/2 posts ago.

llpoh
llpoh
November 15, 2012 11:51 pm

Randy – took it/won it – whatever blows your horn. Ottmans lost and Brits won. Sorry for the Arabs but that is what happened.

This was done as a bit of history and in the full knowledge that it would generate angst all around. It is part of the fun on TBP.

Taxslave – we will do it again sometime!

Ci – thanks.

AWD – I thought it was funny. Gallows humor indeed.

There is no answer. I see no path to peace. The Israelis will not give back the land and the Arabs will not compromise. Pity the innocent. May God have mercy on them all.

randy
randy
November 16, 2012 12:09 am

Nice piece at the end Pooh…

But there is no god…

G’night…

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
November 16, 2012 12:32 am

Randy:

Your darling skank said she saw God when I played the snare line to Yankee Doodle on her G-spot with the ol’ wiggle stick.

Maybe there was something to it…

More than likely it was pillow-talk.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
November 16, 2012 2:36 am

Stucky sez, “Why do people insist that America has a right to defend its borders, and then get pissed off when Israel does the same?”

Can anyone tell me what Israel’s borders are?

napari
napari
November 16, 2012 5:58 am

since Israel is a soveriegn nation… Israel’s borders are whatever Israel says they are, plain and simple. Check out an up to date map….

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 16, 2012 7:14 am

Anytime people argue about Palestine/Israel it becomes a chicken or the egg standoff. Everyone on both sides picks the egg but for different reasons and the only reason for this is when the egg is scrambled you don’t get blood and shit sprayed all over the place. An impartial observer looking at it from afar only sees a mess.

napari
napari
November 16, 2012 7:30 am

Last time I checked Israel won the war.

napari
napari
November 16, 2012 7:35 am

The reason why these discussions are so difficult is people wish to make up there own facts and ignore history.
I for one would appreciate accurate statements that are not taken out of context.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 16, 2012 9:12 am

Exactly

Thunderbird
Thunderbird
November 16, 2012 3:18 pm

LLPOH’s history of Israel in a nutshell… a desert wasteland with a dead sea full of minerals and salts with an estimated worth of five trillion dollars in 1946. Your history is too incomplete for the understanding of the masses of the world watching this sad story play out. A short history cannot be written.

This fight is between God, his chosen people who broke their covenant with him and were dispersed around the world, the Arabs, and the fake Jews not from the root of Abraham. Revelation 2:9… I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. King James Version.

America needs to stay out of this. This feud will be settled by God.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
November 16, 2012 3:52 pm

And then the Shark jumped over the moon. Thanks Thinderbird I can always count on you to ride in a on your white horse and dispense some wisdom. Settled by God, give me a break, that is the problem right now. Everyone thinks he’s on their team. Wouldn’t it be funny if prophecy is fullfilled and we all find out we should have been Buddists.

Thunderbird
Thunderbird
November 16, 2012 4:04 pm

Rob in Nova Scotia says: “Everyone thinks he’s (GOD) on their team.”

Rob, where did you read in my comment where GOD was on anyone’s team?

Your negativity stinks. At least lean to read correctly before you comment with such bad statements. It makes you look like a troll. LOL

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 16, 2012 5:57 pm

This feud will be settled by God. Your own words.

Thunderdird you make a great omellette but your dumb as a fence post

Rob in Nova scotia
Rob in Nova scotia
November 16, 2012 6:00 pm

“At least lean to read correctly before you comment with such bad statements”. Is it Lean or learn? Like shooting fish in a barrel.