Admin – my only horse in this race is that Stuck called out SSS rather aggressively re the date Seeger renounced Stalin. I believe that call-out was wrong, and that Stuck has his facts incorrect.
Otherwise I am hapy to watch from the sidelines.
From my perspective, Seeger was a serial protester. Didn’t matter what, didn’t matter where. On the one hand that helps get issues talked about, so that is a plus. On the other side of the ledger, it seems to me he shit the bed with some of his decisions. So all in all I believe he was a passionate man but lacked judgement at times.
His greatest achievement may have been modernizing the banjo.
SSS
January 28, 2014 11:49 pm
“Orwell and Steinbeck were under surveillance by the US government. They were communists in your eyes. Were they blithering idiots?
I posted RIP and a video (on Pete Seeger). It was you hate mongering idiots who started the bullshit about communism.”
—-Admin
Well. there you go again. Putting words in my mouth. I cautioned you about using George Orwell and John Steinbeck, to no avail. I said nothing about either individual. Nothing. The issue is Pete Seeger. Try to focus.
As for my “bullshit about communism,” please explain the Ukraine famine, the Gulags, the Iron Curtain, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Killing Fields, and a host of other deprivations of the political system that Pete Seeger defended all his life.
I’m waiting for your wisdom.
SSS
January 28, 2014 11:57 pm
@ Admin
Your fucking lame quote from Seeger comes from something he wrote in 2 thousand fucking 6. Would you like me to translate that? 2006. Seeger was a babe in arms at age 86. Keep trying. I admire your fruitless tenacity.
El Coyote
January 29, 2014 12:11 am
in 207’s reign over me, adam sandler as charlie fineman is offended when a shrink tries to connect with him by pretending to like pete seeger, charlie yells at him that he doesn’t know a thing about pete seeger who is a ‘poet’. yada yada.
the script writer had to pull an obscure singer out his ass to make charlie sound like a true music-phile, to coin a word, he could have used john lennon who lived and died in new york. hmm, perhaps that is why ringo has lived in la since the 70’s.
bb
January 29, 2014 12:33 am
Admin ,you are wrong and you just can’t admit it.Now that’s laughable.You defend a known communist like he is a hero .Why not Obama ? Last time I checked they use the
Same play book….One reason I keep.postings is I see it as my divine mission to help you
See the errors in your little Nickelodeon mind…You can thank me later.Fair enough?God help us all.Good night.
sensetti
January 29, 2014 1:06 am
The only Seger I know is Bob Seger, as far as I know he’s still rockin.
Iska Waran
January 29, 2014 1:54 am
Seger is a communist, too. “Main Street”? An ode to a working girl stripper in a small town bar? “Turn the Page”? Romanticizing a journeyman musician. C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-T.
Reverse Engineer
January 29, 2014 1:58 am
Pete Seeger was a LEFTY LIBERAL! Actually, not entirely accurate, he was a Wobbly and Communist.
Pete was Blacklisted in the 50s by the Conservatards under Joe McCarthy and was a Union Organizer.
Pete Seeger was a GREAT MAN.
RE
Reverse Engineer
January 29, 2014 5:18 am
Reverse Engineer
January 29, 2014 5:41 am
Administrator
Author
January 29, 2014 6:06 am
I never knew that TBP was filled with so many Hitler lovers. It seems SSS, Iska, bb, and Zelda would have been big fans of Adolf in his day.
You revisionist historians with your tripe about Stalin and communism is bereft of historical context.
Zelda the dumbass accuses 16 year old Seeger of supporting the communists in the Spanish Civil War. So, you wanted Seeger to support Hitler during the Spanish Civil War?
You assholes are outraged that he supported Stalin during the early 1940’s. Did you fuckers fall asleep in history class. Stalin was our fucking ally from 1940 until 1947. The US supplied him with millions of arms and financial support to fight our common enemy – Hitler.
So, can you dimwits please confirm that you are and always have been big supporters of Adolf Hitler. Your argument is that Seeger should have been anti-Stalin in the early 1940s.
Crushing you IQ challenged douchenozzles is child’s play.
Administrator
Author
January 29, 2014 6:15 am
I’ve figured out why SSS has such virulent hate for a peacenik folk singer.
While SSS VOLUNTARILY bombed innocent Vietnamese in a US war of aggression against a country that did not threaten us, Pete Seeger led the movement against this war that killed 50,000 Americans and millions of innocent Vietnamese.
I wonder how SSS reconciles the fact that he followed the orders of that evil fucker LBJ and willingly killed innocent people. Pete Seeger fought to keep innocent people on both sides from dying.
I guess following orders goes hand in hand with being a big supporter of Hitler. Isn’t that what the guards at the concentration camps used as their excuse?
It seems Seeger was also against Reagan’s military buildup that started the bankruptcy path of our nation.
It seems Seeger was against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
It seems Seeger was on the right side of most issues discussed on this site.
But he was an evil Stalin lover.
SSS – Who was on the right side of history in Vietnam? You or Pete Seeger?
Reverse Engineer
January 29, 2014 6:20 am
Jimbo and I come down on the same side on this one. Nobody can survive that Tag Team. 🙂
Was John Steinbeck an evil blithering idiot? Yes or No? He was a communist. Or does he get a pass because he later worked for the CIA and supported the Vietnam War? It’s amazing how complex and flawed human beings can be. Thank God you, Iska, bb, and Zelda aren’t flawed and can judge the life of a man based on your 5 minutes of wiki research. I guess you sleep well at night knowing you have lived a perfect life.
Steinbeck’s contacts with leftist authors, journalists, and labor union figures may have influenced his writing and he joined the League of American Writers, a Communist organization, in 1935.[citation needed] Steinbeck was mentored by radical writers Lincoln Steffens and his wife Ella Winter. Through Francis Whitaker, a member of the Communist Party USA’s John Reed Club for writers, Steinbeck met with strike organizers from the Cannery and Agricultural Workers’ Industrial Union.[37]
Documents released by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2012 indicate that Steinbeck offered his services to the Agency in 1952, while planning a European tour, and the Director of Central Intelligence himself, Walter Bedell Smith, was eager to take him up on the offer.[38] What work, if any, Steinbeck may have performed for the CIA during the Cold War is unknown, but the correspondence itself is curious, given his earlier history with leftist organizations and individuals.
Steinbeck was a close associate of playwright Arthur Miller. In June 1959, Steinbeck took a personal and professional risk by standing up for him when Miller refused to name names in the House Un-American Activities Committee trials.[29] Steinbeck called the period one of the “strangest and most frightening times a government and people have ever faced.”[29]
Reverse Engineer
January 29, 2014 6:32 am
“We actually agree probably 80% of the time. That other 20% created a lot of nasty commentary over the years.”-Jimbo
Indeed true. On the upside, if it was not for that 20% nastiness, there would be no Diner. 🙂
RE
Stucky
January 29, 2014 7:44 am
“Stuck – please provide source material for that statement. I cannot find it anywhere.” —–llpoh
I read in several places (not just the above article) that Seeger left the Communist Party in the 1950’s. I mistakenly tied that date with his renunciation of Stalin —- which he eventually did with his song ‘Big Joe Blues’. All this fucking hand-wringing about a misplaced date. Give me a fucking break!!
AGAIN … I am severely disappointed that Seeger sang at Oreo’s inauguration. From being blacklisted in the ‘50s for being a Commie ……. to singing for a Commie in 2009. Holy shit, that’s really some massive turn-arounf, perhaps even capitulation. Oreo said Seeger was someone who tried to “move this country closer to the America he knew we could be.” Yikes!!
AGAIN … for the record, I am neither ape-shit gaga for or against Seeger. AGAIN … I am able to separate “Good Seeger” from “Bad Seeger”. He’s just a fuckin’ folk singer for crissakes, not the antichrist. You two , and others, are not capable of discarding the bad, keeping the good. Damn shame.
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 8:33 am
In 1995 Seeger did say he was still a communist …. “I still call myself a communist, because communism is no more what Russia made of it than Christianity is what the churches make of it.”
Really, then maybe he should have immigrated to Russia and helped them reform. Oh, snap! Iska called Communists hypocrites. I would have to agree.
He’s 100% a Communist, but is responsible for the 30 blocks? In his own little way, he is.
I would be interested in his thoughts about spiritualism, but then he’s probably an athiest, which makes him the worst kind of hypocrite. A peace maker, I think not.
Communists may have won the Whitehouse, twice. See you on the other side. My concern is still what the Repubs will do if they sweep the midterms. What’s in their toolkit?
RIP? Nah, good riddance!
Stucky
January 29, 2014 8:50 am
“I would be interested in his thoughts about spiritualism, but then he’s probably an athiest …”
———– Nonbrain person
If you actually had two functioning neurons you would have been able to find on google in .053 seconds …..’
—————–
“His Yankee-Protestant family, which Seeger called “enormously Christian, in the Puritan, Calvinist New England tradition”
“I feel most spiritual when I’m out in the woods. I feel part of nature. Or looking up at the stars. [I used to say] I was an atheist. Now I say, it’s all according to your definition of God. According to my definition of God, I’m not an atheist. Because I think God is everything. Whenever I open my eyes I’m looking at God. Whenever I’m listening to something I’m listening to God.”.
:He was a member of a Unitarian Universalist Church in New York.”
Anonymous
January 29, 2014 8:53 am
But. nevertheless. if not for deviants , homos and commies , what musicians are left….yeah.I’ll admit it.I went to see Elton John and enjoyed the show…free tickets..what can I say.
By the 1940s, folk singers had become a ceremonial part of Communist Party meetings. And at nearly all of them, one would find Pete Seeger playing, under the revolutionary pseudonym “Pete Bowers,” with the likes of Lee Hays, Millard Lampell, Burl Ives, Josh White, Saul Aarons, Bernie Asbel, Will Geer, and a new arrival on the East Coast musical scene, Woody Guthrie.
To achieve the effect they wanted—music that was “national in form and revolutionary in content” in Charles Seeger’s conception—they dipped into the past for their material. “Jesse James,” “Wayfaring Stranger,” “Sweet Betsy from Pike,” “Keep My Skillet Good and Greasy,” and “On Top of Old Smokey” were brought to urban settings, in some cases for the first time. Topical songs—many written for the Henry Wallace presidential campaign of 1948—were political editorials often set to old hymns and folk tunes: “Capitalistic Boss,” “Join the Union Tonight,” “Oh, What Congress Done to Me,” “Defense Factory Blues,” and “Marcantonio for Mayor” (for the Stalinist Vito Marcantonio).
Non arrives with more of his religious babble. BIG YAWN. The same comment for the 4,000th time.
Stucky
January 29, 2014 9:03 am
“RIP? Nah, good riddance!” ———– evil dipshit known as Nonanonymous
We all know you are a complete and total dumbass when it comes to knowing what the Bible actually says. But, I suspect even a dumbfuk jagoff like you knows what hell will be like. torment, flames, unbelievable suffering, separation from God for all eternity.
Rather than showing an inkling of compassion and feeling sorrow for the torments that await this human soul (according to your belief system) ……. you rejoice.
You are the WORST kind of vile fuckwad evil cocksucking hypocrite imaginable. For even God said to Ezekiel, — “As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked ..”
flash
January 29, 2014 9:06 am
Admin-fight fascism to save communism..lol..and Joe McCarthy was a bully…
Stucky
January 29, 2014 9:07 am
“Come out and play all you anti-communist revisionist history wiki experts.” —– Admin
And two minutes after that post along comes Anonymous with a bullshit copy&paste effort …. from some former rabid Catholic nun. Hilarious.
flash
January 29, 2014 9:11 am
I am non ..and no religious babble, just fact.I knwo I was there.Ideology has always been pushed by popular music.To deny this is futile.
BTW, even though I know the slant.I own it for the sound , not the message.
flash
January 29, 2014 9:17 am
We’ll they’ve outnumbered US..welcome to the state of pop culture stupid.
SSS
January 29, 2014 12:39 pm
Admin, how did we get from my criticism of Pete Seeger to my being a fan of Hitler and a war criminal who bombed innocent civilians? That’s just not rational.
And look who enters stage left in defense of Admin but the Prince of Potlatch himself, Reverse Engineer. What a ringing endorsement.
How did we get from a folk singer dying to vitriolic irrational idiotic attacks on the guy for supporting our Ally during WWII, in which he fought?
I’m using your warped ridiculous logic against you and you have nothing in response.
You hate Seeger because he opposed an illegal war you willingly participated in. He fought in the Good War against Hitler.
bb
January 29, 2014 1:31 pm
I hate Seeger because he is a communist and they always try to undermine the nation.One way or another they always attack the country.Admin, why are you being such a jerk about this ?What is Seeger to you ?Seems like you are very defensive about something.Maybe it just your PRIDE of not wanting to admit that you are wrong .Pride one of the big 7.
Llpoh
January 29, 2014 3:02 pm
Admin says Seeger fought in WW2. Au contraire, mon ami. Seeger admits to having “strummed his banjo” during the war. He was in the military – but fought? Nosireebob.
Llpoh
January 29, 2014 3:04 pm
Stuck blasts SSS, then meekly admits he was incorrect re the Stalin part of the assault. My bullshit meter was once again accurate.
Seeger served in the US Military for three years during World War II. I don’t believe enlisted men decided whether they would fight or not. If his superiors decided entertaining the troops was his role, that is what he did. Don’t use your bullshit tactics to make it seem like he avoided fighting. That’s disingenuous, just like most of the bullshit put forth on this thread about the communist Stalin loving Seeger.
I notice no one has addressed the FACT that Stalin was an ally of the U.S. when you people were scorning Seeger for his Stalinist love affair.
Pitiful display by the monkeys.
Admin wins again. As always.
PrisonerofZelda
January 29, 2014 3:13 pm
Maybe Admin got a thing for commie banjo players ?
Zarathustra
January 29, 2014 4:07 pm
Stucky, nice interview. I think what bothers some about a guy like Seeger is that he had a conscience, integrity and a desire to live according to his ideals. Those are all admirable traits, regardless of where such a person ultimately ends up.
To those that lack such qualities, people such as Seeger represent a threat because in their heart of hearts they know they cannot measure up.
Seeger’s indian tribe is a good analogy. Collectivism can work well at the micro level. It’s always when it is applied to entire countries that it fails. Capitalism, if you will, on the other hand, at the micro level, looks more like a Plantation.
Iska Waran
January 29, 2014 4:23 pm
I’m scorning Seeger in 2014 for having been a communist as late as 1995, if not later. And even if virtually all of the leaders of every communist country in the 20th century had not continually proven bloodthirsty, they and their adherents would still be scornworthy solely on account of the principal tactic of communism – confiscating people’s shit. That being said, I also acknowledge some truth to Z’s assertion Seeger tried to live according to his ideals and that I may feel I can’t measure up.
Fascinating that none of my foes on this thread have even attempted to refute my arguments. The sign of weak feeble minds who have nothing but worthless non-factual opinions to back up their drivel about the dreaded communists.
An absolutely pathetic display by the Iska’s and Zeldas of the site.
bb and SSS are curled up in a corner sucking their thumbs after the drubbing I’ve applied to their asses.
Zarathustra
January 29, 2014 4:50 pm
Admin, bb is more like the school retard who actually likes being bullied and ridiculed because it’s the only way anyone pays them any attention.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 5:02 pm
Admin – I refuted your argument. You said he “fought”. I said he did not. I was right, you were wrong. I did not say a word re whether he asked for non-fighting duty. That was your lame attempt to cover-up for you being wrong.
You used the word “fought” to mislead in your argument with SSS. Me, being a fair and reasonable person, wanted the monkeys to know that Seeger did not fight. He strummed, and sang (if you want to call what he did singing). Whether that was of his choosing or not, I do not know. I suspect he did not cry about it. He contributed to the war effort, but HE DID NOT FIGHT.
And re Stalin, people are scorning him for taking oh, what, FIFTY FUCKING YEARS, to admit he was wrong on that call. Stalin may have been an ally in WW2, but his atrocities were well known a little before 1993.
Keep trying to twist the facts Llpoh. He said he drifted away in the late 1940’s. Just because you didn’t find an interview until the 1990’s proves absolutely nothing. Again, disingenuous with your bullshit facts. Anyone drafted into the army, fought in World War II. Again, you are parsing facts to fit your storyline.
He disengaged from the communist party at the same time the rest of the country started to consider Stalin an enemy. Stalin killed millions in the 1930’s BEFORE he became a US ally. Seeger, nor anyone else in the US knew what he had done. Again, equating Seeger to the murder of millions is disingenuous.
Epic Fail for you and the shit throwing monkeys.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 5:04 pm
Seeger spoke first and put his brain in gear later, as a rule, throughout his life. He admits to being led about by the nose as a young man.
Seeger was a professional protester. He was always on the lookout for something to protest about. It was his job. It was his life. Sometimes he was right. Sometimes he was a fuckwit.
He was no great leader. He raised awareness, sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
But he was a professional protester. He was akin to the fuckwit “news” agitators of today: Hannity/O’Reilly/Stewart, etc. He had to be stirring shit, or he was irrelevent. And God forbid that happen.
He made his fucking living stirring up shit. And he did it his whole life. He may have started out all starry-eyed, and stupid as a rock. But then it became a career.
Zarathustra
January 29, 2014 5:09 pm
Llpoh, that is some really artful spinwork there. Allow me to list the names of some other professional protestors:
Henry David Thoreau
Walt Whitman
Samuel Clemens
T.S. Eliot
H.L. Mencken
Hunter S. Thompson
…and the list goes on…
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 5:14 pm
Just keeping it real, Admin
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 5:25 pm
Stucky, you forced me to say it, go fuck yourself.
What you fail to realize, and we’ve had this discussion before, hell is not a place where anyone except the Devil and the antichrist inhabit for eternity.
Calling me a bunch of names doesn’t back up your theology, it only makes you look like the dumfuk you are. When was the last time you had anything nice to say about anybody on this site other than your sycophantic licking of Admin’s boots. Probably because the last time you had an original thought, your mother had to change your diapers.
I’d like a scriptural reference for your quote about Ezekiel. I’ll look it up myself, but you’ve probably misquoted or it was taken out of context in much the same way as you’ve lived your life. Stupid as fuck.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 5:33 pm
Admin – what the fuck? Where did I equate Seeger with the death of millions? I said it took him fifty years to disavow his support for Stalin. I am sure he was aware of his fuck-up well before then, but for whatever reason he did not come out and admitt it. Not a good look for someone so “enlightened”.
We – the shit throwing monkeys – have clearly established that 1993 was the year Seeger voiced regret over his position re Stalin. I could give a shit when he left the Communist Party. He admits he was lead around by the nose by those folks. He also admitted to being a life long communist.
Z – there are professional protestors. I am not sure your list is accurate, but there are plenty of names to put on the list. Seeger is one of them.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 5:36 pm
Stuck – I was merely doing my victory dance. I was right. You were right to conceed your error. You are once again wrong in saying I never admitt mistakes. In fact, I suspect I do it more than anyone else here. If I am wrong re a fact, I believe I am willing to admitt it.
You said that SSS lacked integrity, an accused him of deliberately falsifying facts That is not good. I would defend you from such libel, as I do not believe you would intentionally do such a thing, and I will defend SSS as well. If you are going to say someone lacks integrity, maybe you should make sure of your facts first. That is an incredible allegation against one of the TBP giants. I personally believe that questioning someone’s integrity is as serious as it gets. Anyone who has ever done it to me in person has been left bleeding.
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 5:37 pm
It was as I thought, Stucky, out of context. I suppose next you’re going to be telling us George Steinbrenner was such a great guy.
I’m detecting a superstitiousness stench from you about talking about the dead. He’s dead, get over it.
Never heard of him while he was alive, seems he and Obama struck a chord, and I could have lived my whole life without hearing his name. The only thing that matters at this point for him, is whether he accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior during his lifetime. I would say the same thing about a serial murderer, whether he was born again, or not, and I’ll say the same thing when you’re gone. Good riddance.
The sentiment is likewise, I’m sure. Not that I give a shit, except for your continual misrepresentation of the truth of God’s Word. Typical athiest bullshit. Why should you care? You don’t believe it anyway.
I won’t make the mistake of falling for your sincerity twice.
Stucky
January 29, 2014 5:48 pm
“When was the last time you had anything nice to say about anybody on this site ” — Nonbrain
Quite often. I pretty much like almost everyone on this site. I consider most to be my internet buddies.
I despise no one, — not even bb — with the exception of you. Dead serious about that. You combine three things I hate. You are 1) quite stupid, 2) evil, and 3) a massive hypocrite. There is a zero percent possibility that I would ever “make peace” with you. You are lower than pond scum with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. You should be eradicated.
” … other than your sycophantic licking of Admin’s boots.” ——- Nonbrain
Awwwww …. you’re just pissed that Admin — along with a cast of thousands — thinks you’re a blathering idiot.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 5:58 pm
Stuck meant blithering above, I am sure. Gotta agree with him re Nonymouse. The shit he spouts is beyond belief – like profits should not belong to the business owners/risk takers but rather to the employees. That is far beyond stupid.
Stucky
January 29, 2014 6:03 pm
llpoh
SSS said, “Are you fucking serious? Look up the definition of integrity.” I did, and gave him one definition of integrity which states that it is a “concept of CONSISTENCY of actions” I then provided a list which showed Seeger’s consistency starting with the year 1940 all the way through the 2000’s. . SSS did not, could not, refute it.
SSS, on the other hand, just makes shit up. I don’t know SPECIFICALLY what Seeger said, or meant, in defending Stalin (where are the quotes??), but SSS wants us to believe Seeger supports the murder of 20 million. This is disingenuous bullshit, and shows a lack of integrity at worst.
Besides, shouldn’t SSS fight his own battles?
Stucky
January 29, 2014 6:11 pm
Sometimes I make up my own verb tenses.
blather —- ˈblaT͟Hər/ verb present participle: blathering; 1. talk long-windedly without making very much sense. e.g. Nonanonymous is a blithering idiot on Sunday and a blathering idiot on weekdays.
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 6:15 pm
Stucky, bite me. I’ve had enough of your blithering insults. You fit the mold well.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 6:20 pm
Stuck – There are folks here that I care about – including you. And SSS. And AWD. And Admin. And ……etc.
I did not get vicious with you. But I take the thing re integrity very seriously indeed. I may have missed/mis-interprettted the earlier comments twixt you and SSS. If so, my apologies.
People here are like family to me. They are real people to me. And I care about them. I know it is the internet, but I care nonetheless. And as family, I will defend them if things go too far. Integrity is important to me. I have spent my life trying to define it and to develop it. And defend it.
I defend folks I care about, if I think things are being said that cross the line. I have never shied away from defending family, invited or not. Never will.
Re people I care about, I grieve re folks that have departed the site – Punk, Smokey (hope he is still out there), Colma, Howard (hope he pops in soon), Jmarz, Stevie, etc – apologies to anyone I have missed (eugend66 I am not forgetting about you – please post more often!). Hope you are all well.
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 6:29 pm
LL, perhaps you missed my point about profits, it’s called profit sharing on a dollar for dollar basis. You would rather one input of production, you, receive preference over another, your employees.
It’s not your fault. It’s a defect in the capitalist model. I’m sorry you can’t see that, not that it makes any difference, either.
Yes, it is possible to tweak systems to work for everybody. Since that isn’t going to happen, I’ll take what’s behind door #1, the truth of God’s Word and all of his promises.
Just so we don’t misunderstand each other, you may very well give out bonuses to your employees. That would be your guilty conscience. Don’t start making alliances against me. God will be your judge, not me.
By the way, what risks have you ever taken that aren’t taken by anyone on a daily basis? Your getting out because you can’t keep up, right? Where does that leave your employees? Oh, that’s right. They’ve already been compensated. Fuck them, right?
Congratulations on proving there’s very little anyone can do in spite of the Goliath of the federal government. If you can’t lick them, join them. Right, fuck them and fuck you.
llpoh
January 29, 2014 6:39 pm
Non – you are a true dimwit. Your idea is as I said – profit share based on inputs? Whatever the fuck exactly that is, it is as I said – give the profits to those who have not risked anything.
What have I risked? I risked everything I owned, and in some cases my personal freedom if one of my employees fuck up badly enough. What do y employees risk? Not a fucking thing save the loss of their jobs.
And do I owe my employees anything? No I do not. I have met my obligations to each and every one of them to the last cent. If I want to close my business, for any reason whatsoever, I will do so. It is not a case of fuck them – it is a case of the business belongs to me, and I will do with my property as I see fit.
Your position is that business es canot be owned. You are either a socialist or a communist. Your whole point is that I owe my employees more than I contract to give them. That I canot close my business if I want. You want to deprive me of my own property.
Re alliances – I have always disliked you. I am just in good company.
Seriously, you are just a low-life piece of shit.
Stucky
January 29, 2014 6:54 pm
Same here llpoh. I’ll concede my meaning was not clear and my choice of words too harsh. I disagree little with you, a bit more often with SSS, … and other than normal shitfestish language, I had zero intent on demeaning the character of either of you.
All is good.
Nonanonymous
January 29, 2014 7:25 pm
LL, like I give a shit what you think, you arrogant prick. If it weren’t for europeans, you’d still be hunting and gathering. I hope you have better weapons than stone tipped spears when SHTF.
I’m glad you and Stucky agree. Now, you can both go fuck yourselves.
Admin – my only horse in this race is that Stuck called out SSS rather aggressively re the date Seeger renounced Stalin. I believe that call-out was wrong, and that Stuck has his facts incorrect.
Otherwise I am hapy to watch from the sidelines.
From my perspective, Seeger was a serial protester. Didn’t matter what, didn’t matter where. On the one hand that helps get issues talked about, so that is a plus. On the other side of the ledger, it seems to me he shit the bed with some of his decisions. So all in all I believe he was a passionate man but lacked judgement at times.
His greatest achievement may have been modernizing the banjo.
“Orwell and Steinbeck were under surveillance by the US government. They were communists in your eyes. Were they blithering idiots?
I posted RIP and a video (on Pete Seeger). It was you hate mongering idiots who started the bullshit about communism.”
—-Admin
Well. there you go again. Putting words in my mouth. I cautioned you about using George Orwell and John Steinbeck, to no avail. I said nothing about either individual. Nothing. The issue is Pete Seeger. Try to focus.
As for my “bullshit about communism,” please explain the Ukraine famine, the Gulags, the Iron Curtain, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Killing Fields, and a host of other deprivations of the political system that Pete Seeger defended all his life.
I’m waiting for your wisdom.
@ Admin
Your fucking lame quote from Seeger comes from something he wrote in 2 thousand fucking 6. Would you like me to translate that? 2006. Seeger was a babe in arms at age 86. Keep trying. I admire your fruitless tenacity.
in 207’s reign over me, adam sandler as charlie fineman is offended when a shrink tries to connect with him by pretending to like pete seeger, charlie yells at him that he doesn’t know a thing about pete seeger who is a ‘poet’. yada yada.
the script writer had to pull an obscure singer out his ass to make charlie sound like a true music-phile, to coin a word, he could have used john lennon who lived and died in new york. hmm, perhaps that is why ringo has lived in la since the 70’s.
Admin ,you are wrong and you just can’t admit it.Now that’s laughable.You defend a known communist like he is a hero .Why not Obama ? Last time I checked they use the
Same play book….One reason I keep.postings is I see it as my divine mission to help you
See the errors in your little Nickelodeon mind…You can thank me later.Fair enough?God help us all.Good night.
The only Seger I know is Bob Seger, as far as I know he’s still rockin.
Seger is a communist, too. “Main Street”? An ode to a working girl stripper in a small town bar? “Turn the Page”? Romanticizing a journeyman musician. C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-T.
Pete Seeger was a LEFTY LIBERAL! Actually, not entirely accurate, he was a Wobbly and Communist.
Pete was Blacklisted in the 50s by the Conservatards under Joe McCarthy and was a Union Organizer.
Pete Seeger was a GREAT MAN.
RE
I never knew that TBP was filled with so many Hitler lovers. It seems SSS, Iska, bb, and Zelda would have been big fans of Adolf in his day.
You revisionist historians with your tripe about Stalin and communism is bereft of historical context.
Zelda the dumbass accuses 16 year old Seeger of supporting the communists in the Spanish Civil War. So, you wanted Seeger to support Hitler during the Spanish Civil War?
You assholes are outraged that he supported Stalin during the early 1940’s. Did you fuckers fall asleep in history class. Stalin was our fucking ally from 1940 until 1947. The US supplied him with millions of arms and financial support to fight our common enemy – Hitler.
So, can you dimwits please confirm that you are and always have been big supporters of Adolf Hitler. Your argument is that Seeger should have been anti-Stalin in the early 1940s.
Crushing you IQ challenged douchenozzles is child’s play.
I’ve figured out why SSS has such virulent hate for a peacenik folk singer.
While SSS VOLUNTARILY bombed innocent Vietnamese in a US war of aggression against a country that did not threaten us, Pete Seeger led the movement against this war that killed 50,000 Americans and millions of innocent Vietnamese.
I wonder how SSS reconciles the fact that he followed the orders of that evil fucker LBJ and willingly killed innocent people. Pete Seeger fought to keep innocent people on both sides from dying.
I guess following orders goes hand in hand with being a big supporter of Hitler. Isn’t that what the guards at the concentration camps used as their excuse?
It seems Seeger was also against Reagan’s military buildup that started the bankruptcy path of our nation.
It seems Seeger was against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
It seems Seeger was on the right side of most issues discussed on this site.
But he was an evil Stalin lover.
SSS – Who was on the right side of history in Vietnam? You or Pete Seeger?
Jimbo and I come down on the same side on this one. Nobody can survive that Tag Team. 🙂
RE
RE
We actually agree probably 80% of the time. That other 20% created a lot of nasty commentary over the years.
SSS
Was John Steinbeck an evil blithering idiot? Yes or No? He was a communist. Or does he get a pass because he later worked for the CIA and supported the Vietnam War? It’s amazing how complex and flawed human beings can be. Thank God you, Iska, bb, and Zelda aren’t flawed and can judge the life of a man based on your 5 minutes of wiki research. I guess you sleep well at night knowing you have lived a perfect life.
Steinbeck’s contacts with leftist authors, journalists, and labor union figures may have influenced his writing and he joined the League of American Writers, a Communist organization, in 1935.[citation needed] Steinbeck was mentored by radical writers Lincoln Steffens and his wife Ella Winter. Through Francis Whitaker, a member of the Communist Party USA’s John Reed Club for writers, Steinbeck met with strike organizers from the Cannery and Agricultural Workers’ Industrial Union.[37]
Documents released by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2012 indicate that Steinbeck offered his services to the Agency in 1952, while planning a European tour, and the Director of Central Intelligence himself, Walter Bedell Smith, was eager to take him up on the offer.[38] What work, if any, Steinbeck may have performed for the CIA during the Cold War is unknown, but the correspondence itself is curious, given his earlier history with leftist organizations and individuals.
Steinbeck was a close associate of playwright Arthur Miller. In June 1959, Steinbeck took a personal and professional risk by standing up for him when Miller refused to name names in the House Un-American Activities Committee trials.[29] Steinbeck called the period one of the “strangest and most frightening times a government and people have ever faced.”[29]
“We actually agree probably 80% of the time. That other 20% created a lot of nasty commentary over the years.”-Jimbo
Indeed true. On the upside, if it was not for that 20% nastiness, there would be no Diner. 🙂
RE
“Stuck – please provide source material for that statement. I cannot find it anywhere.” —–llpoh
“Seeger said he left the Communist Party around 1950 and later renounced it. But the association dogged him for years.”
—— http://www.npr.org/2014/01/28/267462861/pete-seeger-troubadour-and-activist-dies-at-94
I read in several places (not just the above article) that Seeger left the Communist Party in the 1950’s. I mistakenly tied that date with his renunciation of Stalin —- which he eventually did with his song ‘Big Joe Blues’. All this fucking hand-wringing about a misplaced date. Give me a fucking break!!
AGAIN … I am severely disappointed that Seeger sang at Oreo’s inauguration. From being blacklisted in the ‘50s for being a Commie ……. to singing for a Commie in 2009. Holy shit, that’s really some massive turn-arounf, perhaps even capitulation. Oreo said Seeger was someone who tried to “move this country closer to the America he knew we could be.” Yikes!!
AGAIN … for the record, I am neither ape-shit gaga for or against Seeger. AGAIN … I am able to separate “Good Seeger” from “Bad Seeger”. He’s just a fuckin’ folk singer for crissakes, not the antichrist. You two , and others, are not capable of discarding the bad, keeping the good. Damn shame.
In 1995 Seeger did say he was still a communist …. “I still call myself a communist, because communism is no more what Russia made of it than Christianity is what the churches make of it.”
Really, then maybe he should have immigrated to Russia and helped them reform. Oh, snap! Iska called Communists hypocrites. I would have to agree.
He’s 100% a Communist, but is responsible for the 30 blocks? In his own little way, he is.
I would be interested in his thoughts about spiritualism, but then he’s probably an athiest, which makes him the worst kind of hypocrite. A peace maker, I think not.
Communists may have won the Whitehouse, twice. See you on the other side. My concern is still what the Repubs will do if they sweep the midterms. What’s in their toolkit?
RIP? Nah, good riddance!
“I would be interested in his thoughts about spiritualism, but then he’s probably an athiest …”
———– Nonbrain person
If you actually had two functioning neurons you would have been able to find on google in .053 seconds …..’
—————–
“His Yankee-Protestant family, which Seeger called “enormously Christian, in the Puritan, Calvinist New England tradition”
“I feel most spiritual when I’m out in the woods. I feel part of nature. Or looking up at the stars. [I used to say] I was an atheist. Now I say, it’s all according to your definition of God. According to my definition of God, I’m not an atheist. Because I think God is everything. Whenever I open my eyes I’m looking at God. Whenever I’m listening to something I’m listening to God.”.
:He was a member of a Unitarian Universalist Church in New York.”
But. nevertheless. if not for deviants , homos and commies , what musicians are left….yeah.I’ll admit it.I went to see Elton John and enjoyed the show…free tickets..what can I say.
By the 1940s, folk singers had become a ceremonial part of Communist Party meetings. And at nearly all of them, one would find Pete Seeger playing, under the revolutionary pseudonym “Pete Bowers,” with the likes of Lee Hays, Millard Lampell, Burl Ives, Josh White, Saul Aarons, Bernie Asbel, Will Geer, and a new arrival on the East Coast musical scene, Woody Guthrie.
To achieve the effect they wanted—music that was “national in form and revolutionary in content” in Charles Seeger’s conception—they dipped into the past for their material. “Jesse James,” “Wayfaring Stranger,” “Sweet Betsy from Pike,” “Keep My Skillet Good and Greasy,” and “On Top of Old Smokey” were brought to urban settings, in some cases for the first time. Topical songs—many written for the Henry Wallace presidential campaign of 1948—were political editorials often set to old hymns and folk tunes: “Capitalistic Boss,” “Join the Union Tonight,” “Oh, What Congress Done to Me,” “Defense Factory Blues,” and “Marcantonio for Mayor” (for the Stalinist Vito Marcantonio).
http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/01/peter-seeger-the-communist-consumers-love
Non arrives with more of his religious babble. BIG YAWN. The same comment for the 4,000th time.
“RIP? Nah, good riddance!” ———– evil dipshit known as Nonanonymous
We all know you are a complete and total dumbass when it comes to knowing what the Bible actually says. But, I suspect even a dumbfuk jagoff like you knows what hell will be like. torment, flames, unbelievable suffering, separation from God for all eternity.
Rather than showing an inkling of compassion and feeling sorrow for the torments that await this human soul (according to your belief system) ……. you rejoice.
You are the WORST kind of vile fuckwad evil cocksucking hypocrite imaginable. For even God said to Ezekiel, — “As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked ..”
Admin-fight fascism to save communism..lol..and Joe McCarthy was a bully…
“Come out and play all you anti-communist revisionist history wiki experts.” —– Admin
And two minutes after that post along comes Anonymous with a bullshit copy&paste effort …. from some former rabid Catholic nun. Hilarious.
I am non ..and no religious babble, just fact.I knwo I was there.Ideology has always been pushed by popular music.To deny this is futile.
BTW, even though I know the slant.I own it for the sound , not the message.
We’ll they’ve outnumbered US..welcome to the state of pop culture stupid.
Admin, how did we get from my criticism of Pete Seeger to my being a fan of Hitler and a war criminal who bombed innocent civilians? That’s just not rational.
And look who enters stage left in defense of Admin but the Prince of Potlatch himself, Reverse Engineer. What a ringing endorsement.
SSS
How did we get from a folk singer dying to vitriolic irrational idiotic attacks on the guy for supporting our Ally during WWII, in which he fought?
I’m using your warped ridiculous logic against you and you have nothing in response.
You hate Seeger because he opposed an illegal war you willingly participated in. He fought in the Good War against Hitler.
I hate Seeger because he is a communist and they always try to undermine the nation.One way or another they always attack the country.Admin, why are you being such a jerk about this ?What is Seeger to you ?Seems like you are very defensive about something.Maybe it just your PRIDE of not wanting to admit that you are wrong .Pride one of the big 7.
Admin says Seeger fought in WW2. Au contraire, mon ami. Seeger admits to having “strummed his banjo” during the war. He was in the military – but fought? Nosireebob.
Stuck blasts SSS, then meekly admits he was incorrect re the Stalin part of the assault. My bullshit meter was once again accurate.
Llpoh
Seeger served in the US Military for three years during World War II. I don’t believe enlisted men decided whether they would fight or not. If his superiors decided entertaining the troops was his role, that is what he did. Don’t use your bullshit tactics to make it seem like he avoided fighting. That’s disingenuous, just like most of the bullshit put forth on this thread about the communist Stalin loving Seeger.
I notice no one has addressed the FACT that Stalin was an ally of the U.S. when you people were scorning Seeger for his Stalinist love affair.
Pitiful display by the monkeys.
Admin wins again. As always.
Maybe Admin got a thing for commie banjo players ?
Stucky, nice interview. I think what bothers some about a guy like Seeger is that he had a conscience, integrity and a desire to live according to his ideals. Those are all admirable traits, regardless of where such a person ultimately ends up.
To those that lack such qualities, people such as Seeger represent a threat because in their heart of hearts they know they cannot measure up.
Seeger’s indian tribe is a good analogy. Collectivism can work well at the micro level. It’s always when it is applied to entire countries that it fails. Capitalism, if you will, on the other hand, at the micro level, looks more like a Plantation.
I’m scorning Seeger in 2014 for having been a communist as late as 1995, if not later. And even if virtually all of the leaders of every communist country in the 20th century had not continually proven bloodthirsty, they and their adherents would still be scornworthy solely on account of the principal tactic of communism – confiscating people’s shit. That being said, I also acknowledge some truth to Z’s assertion Seeger tried to live according to his ideals and that I may feel I can’t measure up.
Fascinating that none of my foes on this thread have even attempted to refute my arguments. The sign of weak feeble minds who have nothing but worthless non-factual opinions to back up their drivel about the dreaded communists.
An absolutely pathetic display by the Iska’s and Zeldas of the site.
bb and SSS are curled up in a corner sucking their thumbs after the drubbing I’ve applied to their asses.
Admin, bb is more like the school retard who actually likes being bullied and ridiculed because it’s the only way anyone pays them any attention.
Admin – I refuted your argument. You said he “fought”. I said he did not. I was right, you were wrong. I did not say a word re whether he asked for non-fighting duty. That was your lame attempt to cover-up for you being wrong.
You used the word “fought” to mislead in your argument with SSS. Me, being a fair and reasonable person, wanted the monkeys to know that Seeger did not fight. He strummed, and sang (if you want to call what he did singing). Whether that was of his choosing or not, I do not know. I suspect he did not cry about it. He contributed to the war effort, but HE DID NOT FIGHT.
And re Stalin, people are scorning him for taking oh, what, FIFTY FUCKING YEARS, to admit he was wrong on that call. Stalin may have been an ally in WW2, but his atrocities were well known a little before 1993.
Keep trying to twist the facts Llpoh. He said he drifted away in the late 1940’s. Just because you didn’t find an interview until the 1990’s proves absolutely nothing. Again, disingenuous with your bullshit facts. Anyone drafted into the army, fought in World War II. Again, you are parsing facts to fit your storyline.
He disengaged from the communist party at the same time the rest of the country started to consider Stalin an enemy. Stalin killed millions in the 1930’s BEFORE he became a US ally. Seeger, nor anyone else in the US knew what he had done. Again, equating Seeger to the murder of millions is disingenuous.
Epic Fail for you and the shit throwing monkeys.
Seeger spoke first and put his brain in gear later, as a rule, throughout his life. He admits to being led about by the nose as a young man.
Seeger was a professional protester. He was always on the lookout for something to protest about. It was his job. It was his life. Sometimes he was right. Sometimes he was a fuckwit.
He was no great leader. He raised awareness, sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
But he was a professional protester. He was akin to the fuckwit “news” agitators of today: Hannity/O’Reilly/Stewart, etc. He had to be stirring shit, or he was irrelevent. And God forbid that happen.
He made his fucking living stirring up shit. And he did it his whole life. He may have started out all starry-eyed, and stupid as a rock. But then it became a career.
Llpoh, that is some really artful spinwork there. Allow me to list the names of some other professional protestors:
Henry David Thoreau
Walt Whitman
Samuel Clemens
T.S. Eliot
H.L. Mencken
Hunter S. Thompson
…and the list goes on…
Just keeping it real, Admin
Stucky, you forced me to say it, go fuck yourself.
What you fail to realize, and we’ve had this discussion before, hell is not a place where anyone except the Devil and the antichrist inhabit for eternity.
Calling me a bunch of names doesn’t back up your theology, it only makes you look like the dumfuk you are. When was the last time you had anything nice to say about anybody on this site other than your sycophantic licking of Admin’s boots. Probably because the last time you had an original thought, your mother had to change your diapers.
I’d like a scriptural reference for your quote about Ezekiel. I’ll look it up myself, but you’ve probably misquoted or it was taken out of context in much the same way as you’ve lived your life. Stupid as fuck.
Admin – what the fuck? Where did I equate Seeger with the death of millions? I said it took him fifty years to disavow his support for Stalin. I am sure he was aware of his fuck-up well before then, but for whatever reason he did not come out and admitt it. Not a good look for someone so “enlightened”.
We – the shit throwing monkeys – have clearly established that 1993 was the year Seeger voiced regret over his position re Stalin. I could give a shit when he left the Communist Party. He admits he was lead around by the nose by those folks. He also admitted to being a life long communist.
Z – there are professional protestors. I am not sure your list is accurate, but there are plenty of names to put on the list. Seeger is one of them.
Stuck – I was merely doing my victory dance. I was right. You were right to conceed your error. You are once again wrong in saying I never admitt mistakes. In fact, I suspect I do it more than anyone else here. If I am wrong re a fact, I believe I am willing to admitt it.
You said that SSS lacked integrity, an accused him of deliberately falsifying facts That is not good. I would defend you from such libel, as I do not believe you would intentionally do such a thing, and I will defend SSS as well. If you are going to say someone lacks integrity, maybe you should make sure of your facts first. That is an incredible allegation against one of the TBP giants. I personally believe that questioning someone’s integrity is as serious as it gets. Anyone who has ever done it to me in person has been left bleeding.
It was as I thought, Stucky, out of context. I suppose next you’re going to be telling us George Steinbrenner was such a great guy.
I’m detecting a superstitiousness stench from you about talking about the dead. He’s dead, get over it.
Never heard of him while he was alive, seems he and Obama struck a chord, and I could have lived my whole life without hearing his name. The only thing that matters at this point for him, is whether he accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior during his lifetime. I would say the same thing about a serial murderer, whether he was born again, or not, and I’ll say the same thing when you’re gone. Good riddance.
The sentiment is likewise, I’m sure. Not that I give a shit, except for your continual misrepresentation of the truth of God’s Word. Typical athiest bullshit. Why should you care? You don’t believe it anyway.
I won’t make the mistake of falling for your sincerity twice.
“When was the last time you had anything nice to say about anybody on this site ” — Nonbrain
Quite often. I pretty much like almost everyone on this site. I consider most to be my internet buddies.
I despise no one, — not even bb — with the exception of you. Dead serious about that. You combine three things I hate. You are 1) quite stupid, 2) evil, and 3) a massive hypocrite. There is a zero percent possibility that I would ever “make peace” with you. You are lower than pond scum with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. You should be eradicated.
” … other than your sycophantic licking of Admin’s boots.” ——- Nonbrain
Awwwww …. you’re just pissed that Admin — along with a cast of thousands — thinks you’re a blathering idiot.
Stuck meant blithering above, I am sure. Gotta agree with him re Nonymouse. The shit he spouts is beyond belief – like profits should not belong to the business owners/risk takers but rather to the employees. That is far beyond stupid.
llpoh
SSS said, “Are you fucking serious? Look up the definition of integrity.” I did, and gave him one definition of integrity which states that it is a “concept of CONSISTENCY of actions” I then provided a list which showed Seeger’s consistency starting with the year 1940 all the way through the 2000’s. . SSS did not, could not, refute it.
SSS, on the other hand, just makes shit up. I don’t know SPECIFICALLY what Seeger said, or meant, in defending Stalin (where are the quotes??), but SSS wants us to believe Seeger supports the murder of 20 million. This is disingenuous bullshit, and shows a lack of integrity at worst.
Besides, shouldn’t SSS fight his own battles?
Sometimes I make up my own verb tenses.
blather —- ˈblaT͟Hər/ verb present participle: blathering; 1. talk long-windedly without making very much sense. e.g. Nonanonymous is a blithering idiot on Sunday and a blathering idiot on weekdays.
Stucky, bite me. I’ve had enough of your blithering insults. You fit the mold well.
Stuck – There are folks here that I care about – including you. And SSS. And AWD. And Admin. And ……etc.
I did not get vicious with you. But I take the thing re integrity very seriously indeed. I may have missed/mis-interprettted the earlier comments twixt you and SSS. If so, my apologies.
People here are like family to me. They are real people to me. And I care about them. I know it is the internet, but I care nonetheless. And as family, I will defend them if things go too far. Integrity is important to me. I have spent my life trying to define it and to develop it. And defend it.
I defend folks I care about, if I think things are being said that cross the line. I have never shied away from defending family, invited or not. Never will.
Re people I care about, I grieve re folks that have departed the site – Punk, Smokey (hope he is still out there), Colma, Howard (hope he pops in soon), Jmarz, Stevie, etc – apologies to anyone I have missed (eugend66 I am not forgetting about you – please post more often!). Hope you are all well.
LL, perhaps you missed my point about profits, it’s called profit sharing on a dollar for dollar basis. You would rather one input of production, you, receive preference over another, your employees.
It’s not your fault. It’s a defect in the capitalist model. I’m sorry you can’t see that, not that it makes any difference, either.
Yes, it is possible to tweak systems to work for everybody. Since that isn’t going to happen, I’ll take what’s behind door #1, the truth of God’s Word and all of his promises.
Just so we don’t misunderstand each other, you may very well give out bonuses to your employees. That would be your guilty conscience. Don’t start making alliances against me. God will be your judge, not me.
By the way, what risks have you ever taken that aren’t taken by anyone on a daily basis? Your getting out because you can’t keep up, right? Where does that leave your employees? Oh, that’s right. They’ve already been compensated. Fuck them, right?
Congratulations on proving there’s very little anyone can do in spite of the Goliath of the federal government. If you can’t lick them, join them. Right, fuck them and fuck you.
Non – you are a true dimwit. Your idea is as I said – profit share based on inputs? Whatever the fuck exactly that is, it is as I said – give the profits to those who have not risked anything.
What have I risked? I risked everything I owned, and in some cases my personal freedom if one of my employees fuck up badly enough. What do y employees risk? Not a fucking thing save the loss of their jobs.
And do I owe my employees anything? No I do not. I have met my obligations to each and every one of them to the last cent. If I want to close my business, for any reason whatsoever, I will do so. It is not a case of fuck them – it is a case of the business belongs to me, and I will do with my property as I see fit.
Your position is that business es canot be owned. You are either a socialist or a communist. Your whole point is that I owe my employees more than I contract to give them. That I canot close my business if I want. You want to deprive me of my own property.
Re alliances – I have always disliked you. I am just in good company.
Seriously, you are just a low-life piece of shit.
Same here llpoh. I’ll concede my meaning was not clear and my choice of words too harsh. I disagree little with you, a bit more often with SSS, … and other than normal shitfestish language, I had zero intent on demeaning the character of either of you.
All is good.
LL, like I give a shit what you think, you arrogant prick. If it weren’t for europeans, you’d still be hunting and gathering. I hope you have better weapons than stone tipped spears when SHTF.
I’m glad you and Stucky agree. Now, you can both go fuck yourselves.