Just Shoot: The Mindset Responsible for Turning Search Warrants into Death Warrants, and SWAT Teams into Death Squads

By John W. Whitehead
June 02, 2014

“A government which will turn its tanks upon its people, for any reason, is a government with a taste of blood and a thirst for power and must either be smartly rebuked, or blindly obeyed in deadly fear.”John Salter

How many children, old people, and law-abiding citizens have to be injured, terrorized or killed before we call a halt to the growing rash of police violence that is wracking the country? How many family pets have to be gunned down in cold blood by marauding SWAT teams before we declare such tactics off limits? And how many communities have to be transformed into military outposts, complete with heavily armed police, military tanks, and “safety” checkpoints before we draw that line in the sand that says “not in our town”?

The latest incident comes out of Atlanta, Georgia, where a SWAT team, attempting to execute a no-knock drug warrant in the middle of the night, launched a flash bang grenade into the targeted home, only to have it land in a crib where a 19-month-old baby lay sleeping. The grenade exploded in the baby’s face, burning his face, lacerating his chest, and leaving him paralyzed. He is currently in the hospital in a medically induced coma.

If this were the first instance of police overkill, if it were even the fifth, there might be hope of reforming our system of law enforcement. But what happened to this baby, whose life will never be the same, has become par for the course in a society that glorifies violence, turns a blind eye to government wrongdoing, and sanctions any act by law enforcement, no matter how misguided or wrong. Indeed, as I detail in my book A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State, this state-sponsored violence is a necessary ingredient in any totalitarian regime to ensure a compliant, cowed and fearful populace.

Thus, each time we as a rational, reasoning, free-minded people fail to be outraged by government wrongdoing—whether it’s the SWAT team raids that go awry, the senseless shootings of unarmed citizens, the stockpiling of military weapons and ammunition by government agencies (including small-town police), the unapologetic misuse of our taxpayer dollars for graft and pork, the incarceration of our fellow citizens in forced labor prisons, etc.—we become accomplices in bringing about our own downfall.

There’s certainly no shortage of things to be outraged about, starting with this dangerous mindset that has come to dominate law enforcement and the courts that protecting the lives and safety of police officers (of all stripes) is more important than the lives and safety of the citizenry. This is true even if it means that greater numbers of innocent civilians will get hurt or killed (police kill roughly five times more often than they are killed), police might become laws unto themselves, and the Constitution will be sidestepped, or worse disregarded, at every turn.

For example, where was the outrage when a Minnesota SWAT team raided the wrong house in the middle of the night, handcuffed the three young children, held the mother on the floor at gunpoint, shot the family dog, and then “forced the handcuffed children to sit next to the carcass of their dead pet and bloody pet for more than an hour” while they searched the home?

Or what about the SWAT team that drove an armored Lenco Bearcat into Roger Serrato’s yard, surrounded his home with paramilitary troops wearing face masks, threw a fire-starting flashbang grenade into the house in order, then when Serrato appeared at a window, unarmed and wearing only his shorts, held him at bay with rifles? Serrato died of asphyxiation from being trapped in the flame-filled house, and the county was ordered to pay $2.6 million to Serrato’s family. It turns out the father of four had done nothing wrong; the SWAT team had misidentified him as someone involved in a shooting. Even so, the police admitted no wrongdoing.

And then there was the police officer who tripped and “accidentally” shot and killed Eurie Stamps, who had been forced to the floor of his home at gunpoint while a SWAT team attempted to execute a search warrant against his stepson. Equally outrageous was the recent four-hour SWAT team raid on a California high school, where students were locked down in classrooms, forced to urinate in overturned desks and generally terrorized by heavily armed, masked gunmen searching for possible weapons that were never found.

The problem with all of these incidents, as one reporter rightly concluded, is “not that life has gotten that much more dangerous, it’s that authorities have chosen to respond to even innocent situations as if they were in a warzone.”

This battlefield mindset has so corrupted our law enforcement agencies that the most routine tasks, such as serving a search warrant—intended to uncover evidence of a suspected crime—becomes a death warrant for the alleged “suspect,” his family members and his pets once a SWAT team, trained to kill, is involved.

Unfortunately, SWAT teams are no longer reserved exclusively for deadly situations. Owing to the militarization of the nation’s police forces, SWAT teams are now increasingly being deployed for relatively routine police matters, with some SWAT teams being sent out as much as five times a day. For example, police in both Baltimore and Dallas have used SWAT teams to bust up poker games. A Connecticut SWAT team was sent into a bar that was believed to be serving alcohol to underage individuals. In Arizona, a SWAT team was used to break up an alleged cockfighting ring. An Atlanta SWAT team raided a music studio, allegedly out of a concern that it might have been involved in illegal music piracy.

Yet the tension inherent in most civilian-police encounter these days can’t be blamed exclusively on law enforcement’s growing reliance on SWAT teams. It goes far deeper, to a transformation in the way police view themselves and their line of duty. Specifically, what we’re dealing with today is a skewed shoot-to-kill mindset in which police, trained to view themselves as warriors or soldiers in a war, whether against drugs, or terror, or crime, must “get” the bad guys—i.e., anyone who is a potential target—before the bad guys get them. The result is a spike in the number of incidents in which police shoot first, and ask questions later.

Who could forget what happened to 13-year-old Andy Lopez? The teenager was shot seven times and killed after two sheriff’s deputies, a mere 20 feet away, saw him carrying a toy BB gun in public.

Then there was the time two Cleveland police officers mistook the sounds of a backfiring car for gunfire and immediately began pursuing the car and its two occupants. Within 20 minutes, more than 60 police cars, some unmarked, and 115 officers had joined the pursuit, which ended in a middle school parking lot with more than 140 bullets fired by police in less than 30 seconds. The “suspects”—dead from countless bullet wounds—were unarmed.

Miriam Carey’s family still can’t get past the shock of her death. Police in Washington, DC, shot and killed the 34-year-old woman after she collided with a barrier leading to the White House, then fled when pursued by a phalanx of gun-wielding police and cop cars. Carey’s 1-year-old daughter was in the backseat. Seventeen gun shots later, Carey was dead and her toddler motherless.

Just as troubling as this “shoot first, ask questions later” mindset is what investigative journalist Katie Rucke uncovered about how police are being trained to use force without hesitation and report their shootings in such a way as to legally justify a shot. Rucke reports the findings of one concerned citizen, “Jack,” who went undercover in order to attend 24 hours of law enforcement training classes organized by the private, for-profit law enforcement training organization Calibre Press.

“Jack says it was troubling to witness hundreds of SWAT team officers and supervisors who seemed unfazed by being instructed to not hesitate when it comes to using excessive, and even deadly, force,” writes Rucke. “‘From my personal experience, these trainers consistently promote more aggression and criticize hesitation to use force,’ Jack said. ‘They argue that the risk of making a mistake is worth it to absolutely minimize risk to the officer. And they teach officers how to use the law to minimize legal repercussions in almost any scenario. All this is, of course, done behind the scenes, with no oversight from police administrators, much less the public.’”

Rucke continues:

According to the learning materials, … there isn’t time for logic and analysis, encouraging officers to fire multiple rounds at subjects because “two shots rarely stops ‘em,” and outlines seven reasons why “excessive use of force” is a myth. Other lessons Jack learned from the “Anatomy of Force Incidents” training in January include a need to over-analyze one’s environment for deadly threats by using one’s imagination to create “targets of the day” who could be “reasonably” shot, to view racial profiling as a legitimate policing technique, even if the person is a child, pregnant woman or elderly person, and to use the law to one’s advantage to avoid culpability.

What we’re dealing with is what author Kristian Williams describes as the dual myths of heroism and danger: “The overblown image of police heroism, and the ‘obsession’ with officer safety, do not only serve to justify police violence after the fact; by providing such justification, they legitimize violence, and thus make it more likely.”

If ever there were a time to de-militarize and de-weaponize police forces, it’s now, starting at the local level, with local governments and citizens reining in local police. The same goes for scaling back on the mindset adopted by cops that they are the law and should be revered, feared and obeyed.

Police have been insulated from accusations of wrongdoing for too long and allowed to operate in an environment in which whatever a cop says, goes. The current practice is to let the police deal with these transgressions internally by suspending the officer involved with administrative pay, dragging out the investigation until the public forgets about the incident, and then eventually declaring the shooting incident justified based on the officer’s fear for his safety, and allowing him to go back to work as usual. And if, on the off chance, a shooting incident goes before the courts, the judiciary defers to police authority in almost all instances. Just recently, for example, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that police officers who used deadly force to terminate a car chase were immune from a lawsuit. The officers were accused of needlessly resorting to deadly force by shooting multiple times at a man and his passenger in a stopped car, killing both individuals.

Meanwhile, the epidemic of police violence continues to escalate while fear of the police increases and the police state, with all its surveillance gear and military weaponry, expands around us.

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51 Comments
bb
bb
June 3, 2014 6:41 pm

Less face it ,you guys don’t like cops . I get it , I really do but it changes nothing.Police violence is only going to get worse as the nation currency and economy is debased. Killing the value of our money kills
Basic trust on all levels and as people get more disparate they will get more violent and the Police will respond in kind.The only thing that will stop the Police is more violent violence.If it ever comes to that we will be in a civil war.The nation has gone to far from it’s founding principles.When the real crash happens we will see the Police state in full operation.The police state is here to stay until we completely collapse and break apart.If you have to deal with police be respectful. Don’t be arguing ,cursing or making threats. You can argue you case in court where it’s safer.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 3, 2014 7:47 pm

Less face it ,you guys don’t like cops . I get it , I really do but it changes nothing.Police violence is only going to get worse as the nation currency and economy is debased. -bb

You have made the claim, now it is up to you to prove it.

I have not debased the currency nor did destabilize the economy, to point a gun at me is to point a gun at a ghost.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 3, 2014 7:51 pm

You cannot fix social or economical ills at the end of a barrel, You cannot force me to buy the shit sold in stores. Once again bb goes statist.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 3, 2014 7:54 pm

And you are wrong bb, this time the police, the govt agencies, are not on your side.

bb
bb
June 3, 2014 8:14 pm

Anonymous, you see it everyday .In your face 24 hours a day 7 days a week.*It’slike saying prove
Original sin.You see it ,you are it.That’s my proof. That lesbianism has really Fuck you up.I told you it would but you wouldn’t listen.Suffer the consequences.

Fed-Up
Fed-Up
June 3, 2014 8:26 pm

Eliminate the BS,unconsttutional War on (some)Drugs and use the SWAT teams only for the very few situations that actually warrant it(eg; holed-up shooter or hostage situation, ect)

Stucky
Stucky
June 3, 2014 8:28 pm

“You can argue you case in court where it’s safer. ” ———– bb

The Village Idiot;

— a) is fucking clueless

— b) sucks copfuk dick for fun

— c) has never been to court

— d) all of the above

I’m going with “d”.

Stucky
Stucky
June 3, 2014 8:33 pm

We get this cable channel MyTV which airs 50’s-70’s shows … often not found elsewhere.

So, last night we watched Adam-12.

Remember when cops basically just had a uniform with a little gun and a baton … instead of full military gear?
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Remember when they drove regular cars with just sirens and lights …. instead of 50,000 lbs military armor?
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Yeah, seems like such a distant memory. Because it is.

llpoh
llpoh
June 3, 2014 8:45 pm

Fed-up – one of my pet peeves is folks that claim such and such is “unconstitutional”. I have read the Constitution many times over now, and its amendments.

So, pray tell, just what part of the Constitution forbids making the use of drugs illegal. Enquiring minds want to know.

llpoh
llpoh
June 3, 2014 8:48 pm

Stucky – cops have always been as they are now. Do not fall into the nostalgia trap. If anything, I believe they were even worse. Modern tech – ie mobile phone cameras and video – are simply making their crimes more evident.

If you think cops were ever benevolent, you need to ask some po’ folk that lived through the depression, or lived in the South, or walked in the poorer neighborhoods of big cities. Those fuckers have always been assholes.

Stucky
Stucky
June 3, 2014 9:10 pm

“..cops have always been as they are now. Do not fall into the nostalgia trap” —– llpoh

You are probably correct.

But, I must be honest with myself. My own interaction with cops during my ute-ful years was a positive one. Good buddy …. you KNOW how fuckin’ painful it is for me to say that??!!

I do NOT dispute your examples of the depression, or those who lived in the South. or blacks in Newark, etc.

I got my license at 17. Joined the USAF at 18. In that one year I had 11 points on my license … (dad’s BMW was so fuckin fast) …. and that’s when speeding tickets were just 2 points. Never once was I bullied, afraid, or intimidated. In fact, they gave tickets with a smile and friendly encouragement to slow the fuck down.

When I was 16 I broke several windows of a new house being constructed right next door to my parent’s house. The other neighbor saw it. Called the cops. They came. I confessed. They drove me to the police station … NO handcuffs, no threats …. I got an hour-long lecture from the Police Chief (we’re from a small town) on juvenile delinquency … and then let go. The only brutality I suffered was from my dad, who kicked my skinny ass.

I have a few more incidents. In all cases, it was a more-or-less non-threatening encounter. Certainly never the brutish ego copfuk shit you see on youtube today. People were generally not afraid of cops, and people generally respected them. I’m sorry, but that’s what I remember.

bb
bb
June 3, 2014 9:10 pm

If you know the cops are violent , corrupt Nazis types then it makes even more sense to.be respectful. Don’t argue cause you’re not going to win.Don’t curse and don’t make threats. If you do it anyway you deserve to get your ass beat.Dumb fuckers. Go fight the Police .If you get your ass shot off well then to bad.Idiots , and more idiots. Where can go to escape all idiots.GOD have mercy on me!!!!!Stucky say something.

bb
bb
June 3, 2014 9:14 pm

Damn Stucky , that’s what I remember about cops.Now whose the village idiot ?*You just admitted what I have been saying. Praise the Lord.

Chicago999444
Chicago999444
June 3, 2014 9:30 pm

Agree with Ilpoh.

And people knew it, too. They tolerated it and often applauded it, because the targets were never white, middle class people… until the 60s and the “counterculture” and the anti-war movement with its protests, and the long-haired “hippies” and “freaks”.

Things I learned about the police while still a small thing: First of all, don’t be poor and “down and out”. Second, don’t look “weird” or be “unconventional” in any respect. Don’t be too different from the people around you. Police are very reptilian creatures- they worship authority and hierarchy, and deeply dislike and distrust anyone who cannot be instantly classified as respectable.

In my native city, we had a couple of precincts notorious for “excessive force” going clear back to the Prohibition days. Everyone in town knew it and nobody cared, as with most places, because most people felt that they themselves were immune, because they were white & respectable & totally bland and conforming. People, mostly derelict drunks, were beaten to a pulp in the holdover cell regularly, and in the 70s, one old drunk was beaten to death. The precinct captain was permitted to explain this away by saying that the guy fell off a barstool, even though there was a very clear bootprint on the man’s breast.

This crap happened everywhere, including small towns. Friend of mine who worked for a major financial concern rolled into a tiny Nebraska burg one day, his appointed mission being to repo an appliance store that was about a year in arrears in paying the company for its inventory. He was instantly tossed into the local lockup for parking his car straddling the line between angled parking spaces. The sheriff was the brother of the store owner. He of course used his one phone call to call his company, who sent an army of lawyers to the town. But what would have happened to some random stranger who somehow ran afoul of a resident, or some strange, arcane law?

Every evil trend of the past 40 years in this country had its roots further back, and got a foothold because the population at large not only tolerated it, but usually supported it, until they realized, much too late, that what they thought would only touch other people would turn on them, too.

Stucky
Stucky
June 3, 2014 9:32 pm

Dear Village Idiot,

I am talking about BACK THEN.

You are talking about NOW.

Google the concept of ‘time’ if it is too difficult for you.

Sincerely
Copfuk Hater

llpoh
llpoh
June 3, 2014 9:36 pm

Stuck – My experience, and that of my family, were different.

For instance, there was the kid – a teenager – that got drug away from my father, who was serving as the kid’s guardian, as he had no home, because when the kid, in the language of the day said “What’s up, Pop”, to a cop as he walked past. The cop beat him and disappeared him to God knows where, but we never found out – we were told only that we were not going to see him again. What a fucking disgrace.

Then there is the beating of a student I witnessed at a football game.

Or the cop that made a man, at gunpoint, destroy all of his carnival equipment as he had ordered the man to close down his game and the man refused. No court order, no warrant, no reason specifically – at the point of a gun the man was made destitute.

My dad was popped for vagrancy in Louisiana and all of his money taken as he was trying to get home to his family after having went away to earn money for the family to survive. He was sleeping in his car in order to save what little he had. The cops took it all – lost his car, and his money. Family almost ended up homeless. My mom didn’t eat for about a week, and the kids had crackers for that was all we had. We survived somehow, and my dad finally made it home. Think he hated cops? You better believe it.

My cop uncle regaled us in how he made his ticket quota by stopping poor folk – never stop the rich as they have the money to fight the ticket.

How about the cop that let the guy murder the hamburger man over $0.05 (literally). The hamburger man charged $0.10 for burgers, but $0.05 if you were a carnie. The murder saw him charge a carnie $0.05, and when the hamburger man asked for $0.10 from him, the murder responded “Oh, trying to cheat me, huh?”, pulled out a .45 and blew the hamburger man’s head off. Cops did not charge him, claimed it was “justified”. Texas cops. True fucking story – my dad witnessed it, and I was just old enough to remember the uproar around the carnival.

The kickbacks that went to the cops and the mayor at every stop of the carnival. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Cops have always mistreated the poor or the weak. Always. Always. Always.

I hate cops.

llpoh
llpoh
June 3, 2014 9:42 pm

Chicago – you are dead right. The poor have been crapped on by cops forever. And severely. I am not surprised by your story re your friend. Thankfully, he got a phone call and it went through.

But it may seem cowardly we did not act upon the things that happened to my father, or that he saw, or I saw. But we neither believed we could do anything about it, and it was desperately dangerous to try. Poor folk without an army or lawyers just sort of disappeared. I know it for sure and certain, as I saw it happen.

Stucky
Stucky
June 3, 2014 9:45 pm

llpoh

WOW !! Those are amazing experiences! Very interesting read. Thanks for telling them.

Maybe I just didn’t “fit the profile” for being harassed. White kid. Short hair. No tats. Driving nice cars (my dad’s cars). Plus, even at a young age, my dad taught me to be a “yessir” “nosir” person when dealing with cops … so I was a suckup pussy when I did get stopped.

llpoh
llpoh
June 3, 2014 9:55 pm

Stuck – try being poor, red, itinerant, and from an illiterate family who lived through the Dustbowl. You get to see a different side of motherfucking cops.

bb
bb
June 3, 2014 11:50 pm

Lipoh , Stucky , ….What would do if your house is being broken into.?Who are you going to call?The tooth fairy. You would call the Police and you would be respectful , nice and kind.Both of you know it .GOD ,you guys are something else..Oh well have a good night.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 4, 2014 12:11 am

If my house is being broken into, I do not need the fucking police. Seriously. Don’t be such a fucking moron. What would I do? Gee, I fucking wonder.

If my house has already been broken into, then unfortunately I have to call and deal with the cops, in order to file insurance claims and such. This has happened to me. They come, they write the report, they talk about it probably was drug addicts did it, etc etc., they are very polite to me given I am not poor now, etc., and they leave. A few weeks later I managed to get the stench out of the house.

Police fucking with me now is almost certainly not going to happen – it would take an inordinately stupid cop to do so. Cops have a sixth sense re this shit. Those fucks are all about self-preservation. Remember those armies of lawyers I could not previously afford? Things have changed, and they would surely sense it. Sure, they may stop me and give me a ticket. But they are exceedingly unlikely to fuck with me.

bb, you are a fucking idiot if you do not understand what cops are. They are the folks every despot uses to fuck over the people. There may be good people who become cops, but they almost universally do not stay good people.

Fuck cops.

llpoh
llpoh
June 4, 2014 12:12 am

me above. Fuck wordpress, too.

Mike Moskos
Mike Moskos
June 4, 2014 12:31 am

We have a lot of police shootings/executions here in South Florida. What’s interesting are the comments posted in the articles about them. The law and order types ALWAYS cheer them on (esp. if the murdered are dark skinned, stupid, or poor). Now I completely understand how the Nazis and the Communists were able to do what they did.

When they come for you, the public will cheer (and that’s the scariest part of all) and they’ll vilify the ACLU for trying to restore citizen power.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 7:43 am

bb,
just like how you say “i get it, you guys don’t like cops.” we get it too, you don’t dislike cops. we are at an impasse.
but these are new stories each time, we are not just re-posting the same exact instance of abuse, the frequency of unique instances shows that the mantra that they are public servants has no legs. in general they are a gang in blue out to serve their masters, the politicians and 0.01%.

we also know about the continuously re-hashed schtick about “What would do if your house is being broken into.?Who are you going to call?”

the question isnt valid, myself and likely llpoh, stucky and many others on TBP won’t call the cops if criminals break into their house, i don’t live in a state like Commiefornia and am more than capable to take care of that issue myself (and i suspect you are too), inviting some trigger happy inaccurate donut munchers only increases the chance of myself getting shot or being disarmed/tazered in my own home on my own property.

note: if we are away and when we get back they are already gone, that is a different story, in that case i just want the crime historian (cop) to write his report so i can contact my insurance and get reimbursed for what was taken.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 7:47 am

llpoh and stucky,
nice rant, bb doesn’t get and likely never will.
i often engage him but in reality it is a waste of keystrokes replying to him on this issue.
he’s denser than iridium.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 4, 2014 11:20 am

“he’s denser than iridium. ”

Then he must be osmium.

Nice reference btw. A while back I compared someone (possibly bb?) to a neutron star, for the same reasons.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 11:53 am

I have repeatedly said I don’t love cops and I probably wouldn’t like most of the younger ones . I realize they have a job to do .I wouldn’t want them in my house either unless I just had to.Cops have stop my house from being broken into and I do appreciate that .Never had any bad experiences with cops even when I got charged with DUI.They just took me to jail.I have always been respectful.I don’t curse , argue or make threats. I find that is the best way to deal with cops.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 12:00 pm

DUI – Driving While Imbecile

i would never threaten a police officer or even do anything that could be construed as threatening, that is like poking a bear but i don’t pretend they are honorable because of the badge and i certainly don’t give them reach-arounds for “keeping my house from being broken into…”

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 12:01 pm

Harry p ,you’re going to have to deal with cops when the SHTF .Might as well learn how to handle cops now . Harry ,remember you’re trying to deal with a situation that causes you the least grief.Being respectful to cops just might save your life.Think about your wife and child. Do you want to go home with them or in a body bag?

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 12:03 pm

persnickety,
actually i think he is dipshitium.

dipshitium (noun); it is 3x’s denser than osmium, has a putrid odor and is impervious to logic. and surprisingly it is not a rare element.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 12:07 pm

So you have never driven drunk ?I bet you have and if you said you haven’t then you’re a lair.I just got caught.Be nice Harry (especially to cops ) it goes a long way with people. You can practice with me.

Stucky
Stucky
June 4, 2014 12:11 pm

From a long time ago …. (not mine)

============================

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California has now identified with certainty the heaviest element known to science.

The new element, Pelosium (PL), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.

Pelosium is inert, and has no charge and no magnetism. Nevertheless, it can be detected because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A tiny amount of Pelosium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.

Pelosium has a normal half-life of 2 years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a biennial reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

Pelosium mass will increase over time, since each reorganization will promote many morons to become isodopes.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Pelosium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical morass.

When catalyzed with money, Pelosium becomes Senatorium, an element that radiates just as much energy as Pelosium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 12:12 pm

Pen , why you so ill big boy.?I think I am the most reasonable when it comes to police. Most of you will do the same thing I do when pulled over by police if you are smart.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 12:22 pm

i wasn’t criticizing you for drivin drunk, intoxicated etc. i was being literal and calling you an imbecile and redefining the acronym.
i agree, anyone who says they haven’t driven drunk either is a liar or has actually never driven.

thanks for the advise, here’s some for you, go get an AIDS/HIV/STD test, one of those copfuks might have been infected.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 4, 2014 12:42 pm

@Harry, I gather that dipshitium must also be the most stable and non-reactive element in existence. As proof, I note that an incredible concentration of the element is resident in Washington DC, yet it has not undergone a fusion or fission reaction.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 1:03 pm

Per ,you are ill .Tell me about your sad, pathetic life .Mommy beat you over the head with a baseball bat ?Try to drown you in the bathtub. Or are you just real lonely ?Which is it per .?Me put my best Freudian hat on and help you.Maybe you’re just sexually frustrated…..My point is you have some serious psychiatric problems.Meathead.

Stucky
Stucky
June 4, 2014 2:41 pm

Putinium consumes dipshitium for lunch and produces an inert lifeless gas, Kerrytitus, as a result.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 4, 2014 2:59 pm

I can’t even tell who bb is aiming his weak insults at. In honor of that, I think we should collectively rename him as Pb, standing for the heaviest common element, which is also somewhat toxic. Just like its new representative.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 3:28 pm

persnickety,
i second that motion.

from this day forward the commenter bb will now be known a Pb.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 3:30 pm

Per sni cke ty ,does this tell you who .I mostly insult people when they come at me.I gotta defend me self.Meathead. Besides I don’t think most of you are as smart as you think you are .

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 3:39 pm

Harry ,shouldn’t you be working ?What are you doing ?You lazy fuck .Now get back to work so you can pay taxes to support all the other lazy Fuckers.They’re counting on you .
Harry , did you actually shoot that pistol A R .IF so what is the accuracy range.?I’m thinking about a pistol AK .Where I live you can buy one for less then 500 hundred dollars.Never shot a pistol AK.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 4:05 pm

Pb,
don’t worry about what the fuck i be doing. i am makng sure i don’t make too much so that some of those bottom-feeders can starve.

haven’t shot it yet, i am probably going to zero it at 50 yards, it wouldn’t be my choice for going out past 100 yards, i have other tools for that. i am entertaining the idea of getting a suppressor for it but with the tax stamp and approvals that would be months out.
i have shot ak pistols as well as other ar pistols, the ak’s can be rough to handle, the buffer tube of the ar actually makes the pistol better balanced even though it can get in the way.
i expect mine to be extremely tame compared to an ak pistol mainly because of my arm brace, plus the 300aac has slighly better ballistics than 7.62×39 and i am already pretty well tooled up to repair and maintain ar’s so it is a better choice for me even with their short-comings. i have been told they can be had for as little as $400 and the steel cased rounds can typically be had for $220/1000 rds.
part of me wants one just wants one because it would be pretty inexpensive to get and feed.

bb
bb
June 4, 2014 7:11 pm

Harry p , I had the chance to buy one a couple days ago in a pawn shop.They wanted 499.00 +tax for an Ak pistol made by Century .I thought I would look on internet for some more information.They had AK ammo for 260.00 dollars for a 1000 rounds.(Bear ammo)Some guys at the range really like the Russian ammo.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 7:45 pm

Big bear is ok, i think wolf and tulammo are better

Heres some tul on sale.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3083371070/tulammo-ammunition-762x39mm-122-grain-full-metal-jacket-bi-metal-steel-case-berdan-primed

Another option is the mosin nagant thatdires 762×54 which can also be had for pretty cheap.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 4, 2014 8:22 pm

No idea why I would want to give gun advice to Pb, but against my judgment, my 2 cents is that a rifle-pistol hack is not very useful, and a person would be better off getting an ordinary quality pistol (Glock 17 or M&P9 would be good options) and developing skills through practice. It’s likely to be far more useful than an AK pistol that can’t really be shot like a pistol or like a rifle. Misses don’t stop the bad guy.

harry p.
harry p.
June 4, 2014 8:32 pm

Per,
Like i said an ak pistol is too unstable but my 300aac pistol with the sigtac brace will be very useful, just not concealable on my person.

llpoh
llpoh
June 4, 2014 8:37 pm

Stats show that in time of crisis pistols are damn near worthless. The hit rates approach zero even at 6 feet in a crisis – you need to be a really experienced shooter with battle experience to do well with a pistol, in general. Some folks here will have those attributes, of course. But the average joe is far better off with a shotgun. In my humble opinion. I know which one I am going to reach for if I need to deal with an intruder or someone breaking in.

And all in all, which would scare you the most, this:

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Or this:

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llpoh
llpoh
June 4, 2014 8:41 pm

The Old Prospector
An old prospector shuffled into the old East Texas town leading an old tired mule. The old man headed straight for the town’s only saloon, to clear his parched throat. He walked up to the saloon and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there, brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other.

The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, “Hey old man, have you ever danced?” The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, “No, I never did dance… never really wanted to.”

A crowd had gathered as the gunslinger grinned and said, “Well, you old fool, you’re gonna’ dance now,” and started shooting at the old man’s feet. The old prospector, not wanting to get a toe blown off, started hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet. Everybody was laughing, fit to be tied.

When his last bullet had been fired, the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon. The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double-barreled shotgun, and cocked both hammers.

The loud clicks carried clearly through the desert air. The crowd stopped laughing immediately. The young gunslinger heard the sounds too, and he turned around very slowly. The silence was almost deafening. The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old timer and the large gaping holes of those twin barrels.

The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man’s hands, as he quietly said, “Son, have you ever kissed a mule’s ass?”

The gunslinger swallowed hard and said,

“No sir … but… I’ve always wanted to.”

There are a few lessons for us all here:

Never be arrogant.
Don’t waste ammunition.
Whiskey makes you think you’re smarter than you are.
Always, always make sure you know who has the power.
Don’t mess with old men, they didn’t get old by being stupid.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 4, 2014 9:58 pm

@Harry: I’ve handled an AR pistol with the sig brace. It works surprisingly well, I must say. But I’m not likely to be carrying one around on a daily basis, and at home I’d be better off with a rifle.

@llpoh: 98% of statistics are made up.

@anyone: I am far more afraid of a skilled killer with a Bic pen and nothing else than of an untrained yahoo with an AR15 or whatever. Whatever defensive tactics and weapon you choose, you must train with it, and you must have it with you when the bad guy shows up. If you’re going to regularly carry a 12ga, or a rifle-pistol, or a M2HB, well, uh….. OK. But most people aren’t, and should train with something they will actually carry. If that’s a tiny pocket pistol with only 5 or 6 shot capacity, well that’s still 5 or 6 more useful shots than the awesome EBR sitting in your safe at home.

harry p.
harry p.
June 5, 2014 11:10 am

llpoh,
the best defense weapon is whatever you have and are highly comfortable with. the best pistol is a shotgun and the best shotgun is a rifle.

after a few hundred rounds are put through it, i have feeling i will prefer this:
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loaded with one of these (and many more available):
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that allows me to shoot 30 of these:
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