When I graduated from college in 1986 it was easy to get a job. The economy was booming and 82% of college graduates had a job. The other 18% were probably raising kids because their college educated spouse made enough to raise a family. The mantra for my entire life has been – go to college and you’ll get a good paying job. It seems something went wrong on the road to riches. The percentage of college graduates with jobs has been falling for the last 30 years and has been plummeting since 2008. It is now at an all-time low of 74.3%. Shouldn’t these people have obtained jobs since the government tells us the unemployment rate has dramatically dropped from 10% to 5.5% since 2009?
Not only is college graduate labor participation at record lows, but those getting jobs didn’t need a college degree in the first place to get that job, in the majority of cases. A new Careerbuilder survey indicates that though the majority of Class of 2014 college graduates are currently working, 51% of that group are in jobs that don’t require a degree. This is up dramatically from the 38% found in the 2010 US Census survey. The Careerbuilder survey also found that only 36% of 2014 college graduates had obtained full-time permanent jobs. The findings are as follows:
- 65 percent of recent college grads are employed (of these, 36 percent are in full-time, permanent positions; 17 percent are in part-time, permanent positions; and 12 percent are in temporary/contract positions). Fifty-one percent are in jobs related to their college major.
- 4 percent are in internships.
- 31 percent are not working at all (although many in this group haven’t started their job search or are already back in school to pursue a higher degree). Of this group, not even half (43 percent) say they’re currently looking for a job.
- Only 44 percent expect to make more than $30,000 their first year out of college.
So we have less and less college graduates being employed, a majority of college graduates ending up with jobs that don’t require a college degree, many getting part-time temp jobs, and even if they get a job their wages are low. What did Obama and his minions do in 2009? They take over the entire student loan program for the country and proceed to dole out $600 billion of new student loans to anyone who could fog a mirror, let alone add or subtract. Millions have been lured into irreversible chains of debt over the last six years in order for Obama to artificially lower the reported unemployment rate, while pumping billions into consumer spending through a devious backdoor method. Now the brilliant summa cum laude graduates of the University of Phoenix are pouring into the marketplace with $30,000 of student loan debt and interviews at Ruby Tuesday, Texas Roadhouse, and TGI Fridays.
Student loan debt has surpassed $1.3 trillion and the American taxpayer is now on the hook. At least 30% of the outstanding debt is already in default or deferral. The students are left with a debt burden that can’t be written off by declaring bankruptcy, very few jobs in their fields of study, wages that can barely cover the debt payments, and no chance of ever owning a home. They were told by their parents, politicians, and the mainstream media that college was the path to prosperity. They were lied to.
The Federal Reserve and the politicians in Washington D.C. have destroyed our economy with their debt based solutions and vast array of laws, regulations, and taxes, which have drained the life out of our financial system. The number of good paying new jobs for college graduates will continue to decline, but the amount of government backed student loans continues to go up by $5 billion per month. Those who have been unwittingly convinced college was a great idea, will pay for the rest of their lives. Or at least until the $500 billion taxpayer bailout when future president Clinton or Bush decides to relieve the burden of potential voters in a future election. Our hole is deep, but we just keep digging deeper. And the vested interests get richer as students and taxpayers go deeper into debt. They like the system just as it is.
I have been of the opinion that the only real value added college courses are of the STEM variety. Everything else just feels like it is programming, conditioning, mostly bullshit. Am I wrong seeing it that way? I chose the navy in lieu of college, as I felt I wouldn’t have the motivation for college with all the distractions. Rickover’s program in the navy surely motivates you.
Frankly, I hope the problem gets worse. I want the up and coming generation to see, once and for all, that college is a waste of time in the information age. I want this Fail to be so epic that the lies of higher education will be undeniable.
Right or wrong we are creating a whole generation of very angry people. They will be the combatants in the 4 th turning crisis.
It’s not possible. This is the best economy in 500 years. 99.999% of every able bodied man, woman, and child is employed in a high paying job. The economy is booming!
Nickel Thrower , all shenanigans aside .Shouldn’t you be working or are you.part of the loafing class?
I’m beginning to think you are really poor or really , really rich.All shenanigans aside .How did you end up.on a sailboat ?
This is just an advanced problem stemming from the VietNam war when going to college to avoid the draft became the vogue causing all those grants and loans to come about so it was not a strictly “for the rich and privileged” situation and producing so many unneeded college graduates that industry had to make a place for them by loading up with useless “mid management” positions which then morphed into a college degree becoming necessary to get even simple jobs that really don’t require a high school education to perform.
Or something like that.
I think that about half of the young adults in college have no need to be there. Unfortunately the progressive public school systems have created a near perfect feeder system and recruiting tool for these overpriced and over valued “learning institutions.” If someone has the money and wants to go to college to study the classics good for them, but no institution other than the government would loan over a billion dollars to young adults barely out of adolescence, so they can find themselves. The sad irony is that the majority of the information taught can be found for free, on line and in libraries.
Both my kids go to UMass, as did I. When I went it was about $4000 a year all in in the early 1980’s. It is now about $28,0000 per year, 7 times what it cost when I went. Do you think the math, chemistry and physics that they are studying is radically different than what I studied. I am sure the curriculum has been updated, but is that worth 7 times more. UMass has recently borrowed 2 billion dollars to build new facilities through the campus. Do you think they would dare go on this outrageous building/ borrowing spree if it was not for the continued flow of students at these inflated prices and UMass is a much cheaper alternative than many of the colleges around greater Boston. Nearly 35,000 applications for about 3300 openings. They know they have permanent feeder system.
It will continue to work until it doesn’t.
Bob.
Steve , my brother . Do you have job ?.Or are you also part of the loafing class?Sometimes it seems like I’m the only who has to work for a living on this site and it’s ANNOYING.
Seems like I’m always paying for something or someone. Taxes ,ex wife., truck , fuel ,mortgage for mama…..Every where I turn somebody wants money. Steve I think you and I would make great roommates. I need to disappear and you need balance in your life.
@BB,
I work in media. I’ve provided media services to at least 1/2 of the Fortune 500 companies. I also co-own Black Box Analog Design. I design and manufacture very high end vacuum tube equipment used in the recording and broadcasting industry. If you hear it on the radio then there is a good chance that it was recorded through one of my products.
BTW, when the collapse of ’08 shut my post production facility down, I decided that I would teach myself electronics so as to have something to do. It took me 18 months to go from knowing nothing about electronics to having a product with world wide distribution.
In the future, there will be owners and everybody else. I plan on being one of the owners because the alternative is unthinkable.
“•Only 44 percent expect to make more than $30,000 their first year out of college.”
So basically they’re looking at first year wages from 30 years ago, and that’s without adding in the cost of inflation and the cost of the hugely inflated student loans because of the hugely inflated cost of “higher” education.
My advice would be to become a plumber. No college necessary and just about everybody is willing to pay whatever they have to to get their plumbing working.
The universities and the whole education system is also to blame. Once upon a time, teaching and ‘education’ used to be a noble profession. It’s nothing but big business now. With almost every facet of a university’s work force and faculty unionized, and their constant demands (along with administration) for higher wages, universities have dumbed down their ciriculum and lowered the bar so low that anyone could become a student – $$$ (as a graduate student, I witnessed fully 35% of the first year grad students had to take remedial reading and writing classes – it was a joke). Part of this process was to encourage student loans so that EVERYONE could attend – $$$. Big sports programs did the same… brought in the big bucks $$$. It’s all about the money and the whole educational system itself is mostly to blame.
And yes I wrote that quickly while multitasking… so some of the sentences are not right.
Nickel Thrower , Good for you .I wish I knew more about electronics but as I told Steve I’m paying a lot bills at the moment. Got to stay ahead of bills so I’m working as much as I can at FedEx. I would like to slow down but can’t do it right now. You never answered the question about how you ended up on a sailboat. Years ago in what seems like another life I had friend that lived on a boat . He had some pretty good parties as I remember. He could get 8 or 9 people inside.It was nice for one person.
Nickel Thrower , anonymous was bb.Damn smart phone going crazy again.
I moved on to a sailboat to keep expenses low and to float out into the ocean should society collapse.
Boaters tend to be survivalists so I want to be around them.
I graduated from a major college after 5 years of study working my way through. There certainly is much value in a college education but only for those professions that offer opportunity afterward.
Colleges today are far too expensive for what they do. To me, its a simple matter of the relationship between union teachers, administrators, and politicians. The college I graduated from is a city unto itself with endless construction projects to keep the union workers busy. Both teachers and administrators receive regular wage increases and other financial benefits because they are all big financial supporters of politicians – you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. A real incestuous relationship – at the expense of taxpayers and students!
Neither high schools or colleges teach students the most important thing of all – how they are financially exploited as students and later as taxpaying adults in the workforce by the corruption of money in our political system by all the big special interests who enormously impact and often undermine or even destroy people’s lives and drag our economy down.
One prerequisite for ALL graduates from high school and college should be a thorough knowledge of the corruption of money in our political system and how this affects people’s lives.
Can you imagine union teachers, administrators, or corrupt politicians agreeing to this?
College would be a good idea if there were jobs to be had. Nuthing like competing with people all over the world for work.Especially people who will work for next to nuthing. TPP,I bet it screws us over even worse than NAFTA.
Colleges have a huge problem, what to do with all those pesky graduates. How many more make work positions can be created in education, healthcare and government to swallow up those female and minority grads? How long can those same enterprises keep retiring said make works after 20 years to make room for another?
The pipelines are getting full, and very, very expensive to continue. We need to get back to productive work. Producing stuff right here in the good old USA. it is the answer to everything.
The whites minnies think their debt slavery is bad, just wait to the “Israelites” get though with them.
In the future, the way we’re going, there will be a very few, who own all the robots and high tech weaponry (fascist leadership), and everyone else….Hmmm….I guess it will be kinda the same but worse 🙂
@Nickel, KUDOS!
I’ve 3 sons, 3 STEM grads, 3 well-paid jobs in Corp America. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. They’re the last of a disappearing cohort. Like all parents, I worry about them.
College is 99% BS. Even my comp sci graduate oldest, who attended on 100% full scholarship, said that little of what he learned in college applies to his actual work (in Business Technology for a major credit card firm.)
My kids all beat the system. #1, as I said, got a full ride. #2 got 1/2 scholarship plus a highly paid co-op, plus still graduated “on time” after 7 semesters. #3 took college classes starting at 15 and finished his B.S. degree in 5 semesters at Big U, graduating at 20 years of age.
Their college didn’t put me in the poor house. Whew!
Is college like a technical school where attendance delivers the knowledge to enter an occupation? Is it to “round out” and “enlighten” a person so they better understand the world? Is it to let 18-22 year olds live like drunken attendees at a swingers’ orgy, to “get the full college experience?”
Bah.
Anyone who goes to college for #2 and/or #3 is a fool, especially if they do so thinking that it will somehow qualify them for an as yet unnamed occupation.
This is what you get when everything is manipulated.
All the jobs lost to India and China.
Then the Government School feeder system, drills college as a necessity into their heads. Many professions that people used to learn on the job (like veterinarian assistant, nurses assistant, etc) now have to have at least a 2 yr degree. Colleges learned how to make fake credentials a necessity.
And when those people do graduate and get a job that they have trained for, it’s almost impossible to move to a different profession – they have them locked in, captives.
Lastly, with self-service and computers – there is less and less need for thinking people.
This current generation is screwed. I wonder what the 4th turning will bring.
I blame everything on collectivism.
Right collectivism (corporatism), Left collectivism (communism, social democracy) and what’s left (national socialism).
Mine is simple system.
WhoTF down-voted Nickelthrower? Entrepreneurial success is neg’d?
I thought the kind of people who would downvote a success story stuck to Mother Jones Online.
We do have a few downvoters here who nick the oddest things. They don’t defend their position, they just hate. Worms will be worms
NickelthroweR says:
I moved on to a sailboat to keep expenses low and to float out into the ocean should society collapse.
Very, very, good move my friend. Mobility is the key to survival.
Dc – corp jobs are good for some, but these days it is very risky. I hope they do very well indeed.
Nickel – great work!
starfcker says: We do have a few downvoters here who nick the oddest things. They don’t defend their position, they just hate. Worms will be worms
Star there’s a few Obama voters that hide in the shadows and down vote intelligent commentary. For example, one could post, Reggie is corn holing Obama, everyone knows that’s true, but you’ll still draw the down vote. Go figure?
Find your passion and educate such later, Used to make fun of the farm kids attending our Midwest college, as they didn’t graduate and only took a few courses and disappeared. Made sense later, as they shopped for what they needed and screw the diploma,
While us budding finance majors were struggling with American Literature, Biology, and Philosophy, the farm kids were cashing in on what they learned.
Passion,,find it and feed it,
I regretted college. It was a huge waste of time and now I have to spend years to pay for that huge waste of time. All throughout school they force-fed the “go to college” line to students. Everything was focused around your “academic career” and guidance counseling. Then you get to college and it is just rehashing high school but with people who haven’t worked in their professional fields for 20-30 years. Or if at all, it is common for professors to have been life long students who got the degrees to teach their subjects, but never worked a real job. Most students have to take out student loans for housing and rising tuition only to then spend the next few decades paying off those loans. College was suppose to only be a four year plan. Somehow it transformed into the central goal of education.
The guys we hire out of college are on average $30-$50 grand in debt – they can’t afford to get married, or buy a house – one of our guys can’t get a car loan with a $10,000 down payment – they are not happy
Then I tell them that they paid more for less, as they didn’t get the education I got – at the same university – then they get pissed – they realize they have been taken advantage of – most are still not over it…..
Whether a college education is useful or not is beside the point. It certainly is if you intend to enter a technical profession such as Admin. Central to the issue here is the cost. A college education used to be cheap. 40 years ago it wasn’t hard to earn enough from a summer job to cover a year’s tuition at a state university. The California universites used to have free tuition for in-state students. So what has created the immense inflation in college costs? There is but one answer, Federal student aid and grants.
I do feel sorry for the millenials in this regard. My tuition at the premier public university in my state in the 70’s was a few hundred bucks a term. I graduated with zero debt, through painting houses or working in canneries in the summer, selling some weed during the school year and with occasional help from my parents. That is not possible today.
Forester- It is isn’t the cost alone that is the problem. I got ticked off at the quality of education in college. There were many wasteful required classes I had to take that even the professors didn’t want to waste their time teaching. Looking back I would have been better off ending my formal education after the 8th grade and pursuing self-education. Both high school and college ruined my overall education.
I forfeited most of my retirement savings to get my son through college with no student loans. He has 2 years to go and I can only hope there is a decent job left when he graduates.
Last weekend he entered a 24-hour problem-solving competition, teamed up with 2 other students he didn’t know, and they took 3rd place and $500 each. He did the Java programming portion. Great for his confidence and some spend money to boot. Might look good on his future resume, too!
Stephanie Shepard _ I like your post very much – and agree completely, although in my case it was slightly different – I was counseled by my college adviser’s to get out of forestry – they called it “a dying profession” I was ridiculed for continuing my studies…only later did I understand that they had a philosophical objection to cutting trees and building houses out of them…
The 20 somethings we hire now got royally screwed – they not only had to take the stupid upper division “humanities” crap, they also were not taught the fundamentals of my profession – God help them if the satellites are down and the damn GPS doesn’t work – compass and a topographic map? They were not taught that – I ask them: how do you know where you are in the woods if your GPS goes down? Silence….
I feel really bad for them…they got screwed big time….
Forester- It is unfortunate to know they would’ve been better suited for the profession by becoming an Eagle Scout than going to college.
Forester- It is unfortunate to know they would’ve been better suited for the profession by becoming an Eagle Scout than going to college.
True to a point
We have decided to look to other universities that have not compromised their educational standards – and yes there are still some –
It hurts us to not hire from our Alma-mater though….
I don’t know how you do your hiring, but I would start stealing the students from your Alma-mater by offering paid apprenticeships. After a year or two I would guarantee you would have happier and better informed 20-somethings working for you.
Stephanie Shepard -I don’t know how you do your hiring, but I would start stealing the students from your Alma-mater by offering paid apprenticeships. After a year or two I would guarantee you would have happier and better informed 20-somethings working for you.
Interesting concept…but we run into the problem of spending capital to train them and a big company like Weyerhauser offers them a boatload of money and steals them from us.
So it is a balancing act – we attract and hire independent thinkers – we have a family environment – we all care for each other, and look out for one another – that is not typical in our industry – we have had good luck with this – but we have had to look nationwide for people who seek this – and value it…
If I had been offered a paid apprenticeship instead of college at the age of 18 I would have snapped it up in an instance. They would’ve had my loyalty at a very young age by knowing they saved me from thousands of dollars in debt and post-graduate merry-go-round. Happy employees don’t spend their time job searching. Do an experiment by discussing the idea of paid apprenticeships with your 20-somethings. I bet just the mention of the idea would perk their interest before you finished your sentence. You would at the very least walk away with new insights from them.
Point taken – I will ask them – although we haven’t had good luck with high school graduates – they trashed our trucks….hard to find responsible 18 year old kids who want to work in the woods…but, I agree, there are some out there and it is probably worth the effort to find them.
Have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation with you – always good to hear new ideas
Have to get up at 5:30 and meet with the State Archaeologist to go over protections for indian camps and old fallen-down log cabins – everything is “significant” here in Northern California when one wants to log some timber from their own land – but that is another story…
I do have a final idea for you, How about looking into programs such as the Boy Scouts, hunting and fishery associations, or even your current employees who have sons between the ages of 18-22 who have an interest. The way you bypass irresponsible 18-year-olds is old fashion references. Find the people who know them and will vouche for them.
Stephanie Shepard says:
I do have a final idea for you, How about looking into programs such as the Boy Scouts,
_______________________________
The Boy Scouts have merely become a prep institution for the military; they probably always were.
Zara- I have a few friends who did become Eagle Scouts and none of them went into the military. They were all just had an interest in a nature, camping, and wildlife.
Ok – couldn’t resist looking one more time – pants are in the dryer – had to wash the poison oak off….
We still hire high school kids – we got three coming on next month – the ones with promise, we encourage to go to college – because what we do is pretty technical – we tell them we will give them summertime jobs – encourage them to understand what we do – doesn’t mean they have to graduate with a BS – means they have to take enough classes in Forestry so they GET IT
In California, one must have seven years experience (ie apprenticeship) under a licensed forester to be eligible to take the licensing exam in order to be a professional forester – it does not require a college degree – just seven years experience – so, in essence, we are already doing what you suggest – I am simply pointing out that we have not been as successful as we had hoped – we got one kid out of ten over the last three years to actually follow through with this – he is now going through college – not sure how far he will get – but we support him – he is a good kid
On the other hand, we have a kid from a cattle ranch that has turned into the best field tech in the north State – he has no desire to go to college for forestry – he is simply waiting for his father to retire so he can mange the ranch that has been in his family for five generations…and he loves working in the woods
Stephanie I agree, these kids are out there – and I agree, we probably could do a better job of trying to recruit them – but it takes time – and we are consultants – not a big company – and as you know, time is money – but I get what you are saying – this is worth the investment…
I wonder how your industry is going to fair with the drought. I bet it does make it more challenging to find young people who are not only have the interest and skills, but are willing to go to California. It is one of the most expensive states to live in and with the drought it would be more challenging considering it would be difficult to foresee the situation 5-10 years from now.
I gotta hand it to you – you’ve got me thinking – and I appreciate it
Most kids that go to school for natural resources in the east secretly or overtly, want to work in the west – it is very different then back east – my parents are french Canadian immigrants that worked in the textile mills in Rhode Island – moved to California after the unions destroyed the industry in New England in the mid 1950’s – my grandfathers explanation (life long democrat – lived 1911 to 2013) – not mine – so I get the mind set – the west is still the promised land for natural resources for many people (ie go west young man)
We tell them that if they can understand this gobbledygook of regulation here in California, then they can make it anywhere in north america – even Canada – it doesn’t appeal to all of them, but we get the independent minded, adventorous few that are into it – and they become family – which is hard for some east coast folks to accept when they go to a new area and are greeted with open arms….but after they get over their caution, they really are the best folks to deal with…
The drought is a big deal here, we had five 100,000 acre fires in our County last year – glutted the log market – almost to the point that the sawmills couldn’t process it all – of course most of it was on US Forest Service land, and they haven’t cut a single tree yet – but over 1/3 was on private timberlands, and that has flooded the market – and as I have read on Zero-hedge and TBP, the lumber market is tanking because the economy sucks for new housing – multiple reasons worthy of another thread – but anyway, that is where we are at – we are chasing dead and dying timber in a falling market – not a good situation for those that own the trees – but us foresters are quite busy
Long term? Well approximately half of the lumber market is now remodeling for house flippers (and others) and reconstruction after natural disasters (flood, earthquake, hurricane, tornado etc) – so lumber is not as dependent on new home starts as it used to be
As a forester, I am an optimist – I have to be – I will never live to see the trees that I plant today be harvested in the future – I do this for my kids, my friends, clients, and my own piece of mind – I sleep good at night in other words….
To be frank, I would not have guess you were located in California until it was stated. We are seeing the wet climate in the west of the 20th century was the anomaly. California is reverting back into being a desert climate and nothing is going to stop it. On top of this, based on the heavy regulation in California it would be the ultimate deterrent for Millennials (on top of cost of living).
Personally, I see the future destination for the youth to be the Southeast. The southern states are not heavily regulated compared to north/west liberal states. We aren’t vulnerable to drought considering the generous rainfall and we don’t have high energy costs for heating because there is little snow fall. The minimum wage and cost of living is the lowest in the southern states. I would think the ideal location for forestry would be the Appalachian area.
Nothing wrong with going into debt to go to college, if:
– you are in the top 1/5 of HS students
– you study a commercial field – STEM, etc.
– you study at least 40 hours per week, plus class time (not the 12 hours per week of study that the average student currently studies). Total study plus class time needs to be around 55 hours per week. No ifs, ands or buts.
– you keep the debt to a reasonable level.
Comments re “they don’t teach us anything in college anymore” are bullshit. College professors do very little teaching, no matter what college it is, and never did. Good profs motivate, but none really teach.
College students need to learn by themselves, and 12 hours per week is bullshit and will not cut it. Forty hours plus class time is what is required, plus a part time job. Young people will squeal like pigs at the thought of that workload. Too fucking bad. That is the truth of it. And after 4 years of that load, the kid will have the start of an actual education.
Take that start and add 100 hours of work per week for 10 or 15 years, and then you have experience to go with it, and now you have a real chance of success. Not a guarantee, just a chance. But few white kids will do this. Plenty of Asians and Jews will, though. The white kids will then spend the next 40 years bitching about how unfair it is that Asians and Jews are so wealthy, though. (Blacks and Hispanics need not be mentioned.)
So, if a kid is smart, hard- working, and studies the right things, college is highly beneficial.
Way too few kids have those qualities.
Whose fault is that?