Even though the cougar is p-shopped and way out of scale this tickles me. I don’t know why. Perhaps it is because our State DNR people laugh and snicker while claiming we have not had a wild cougar since the late 1800s. Meanwhile, credible folks see them often enough to question the official line.
IndenturedServant
May 10, 2015 7:24 pm
Around here people hunt them. A human can actually intimidate a mountain lion enough to ward off an attack. They are ambush predators who count of stealth. If they know you’ve spotted them they will generally walk away unless corned or injured. I’ve heard plenty of stories that simply rushing them will make them flee. I know I’d rather meet a mountain lion than a bear in the woods.
I agree the image is probably shopped. It looks like a tree branch growing out of his side.
Indians around here like to keep them in small cages with concrete floors. I’d rather never see one than see them like that.
llpoh
May 10, 2015 7:40 pm
Cougars are quite dangerous if you do not see them – as IS says. If they get a chance at you from behind, they might take it, but if you are with someone, it seems unlikely to me. Lone targets would be their preference. They do not attack from the front, but from the back and from up high.
I’ve been on a few cougar/puma hunts. They do not scare me.
Bears, on the other hand, scare the ever living shit out of me. When cornered, and wounded, bears are scary as hell. I have seen a few hundred pound bear slap 80 pound dogs twenty/thirty feet through the air. You know that an animal is tough when it makes a pack of hunting hounds turn tail and run.
Iska Waran
May 10, 2015 8:18 pm
Llpoh, are you talking about brown bears?
starfcker
May 10, 2015 8:21 pm
It’s the lion that’s dead. That’s how they hunt them out west. Find tracks in the snow, put a pack of hounds on the trail, and when they tree it, shoot it out of the tree.
Tucci78
May 10, 2015 8:46 pm
“It’s the lion that’s dead. That’s how they hunt them out west. Find tracks in the snow, put a pack of hounds on the trail, and when they tree it, shoot it out of the tree.”
——————-
Ah, but this photo shows a newly-developed aspect of the hunting process.
Bait them with a millennial taking selfies.
Gilberts
May 10, 2015 9:26 pm
Of course, it’s real. It’s on the internet. Why would you fake such an epic shot?
IndenturedServant
May 10, 2015 10:37 pm
I’ve never been in close proximity to a Grizzly but black bears are pretty timid/non-confrontational. My heart definitely pounds when I’m too close to a black bear but in every case we simply backed away and went our separate ways. The thing I fear is finding myself between a black bear and her cubs or too close to a Grizzly. I always carry a .38 Super +P in the woods just in case but worry that I might not have time to react. Those fuckers are fast!
llpoh
May 10, 2015 10:58 pm
Iska – if it was a brown, I would still be scraping shit off by backside.
It was (relatively) little bitty, teensy weensy black bears – that can weigh 500 pounds, and are immensely strong.
“Black bears … have great physical strength. Even bear cubs have been known to turn over flat-shaped rocks weighing 310 to 325 pounds (141 to 147 kg) by flipping them over with a single foreleg”.
And IS, with all due respect, has obviously never encountered one that was good and pissed off. Like they get when being surrounded by 5 or 10 hounds nipping at them, or having been shot in the ass by a .22 a time or two, ’cause we were out hunting ‘coons and stumbled on a black instead, and figured “what the hell, this here .22 will get the job done if we hit him in the right spot”.
In underbrush, higher than your head, and unable to see the fuckers, but hearing the growling and snarling, and then see a 80 lb hound come flying overhead after being slapped by one of those “pretty timid/non-confrontational blacks (as described by IS – bullshit says I) – you get a whole new level of respect for a black. Even a 200 or 300 pounder would make chopped liver out of you, and may well take a 38 and shove it up your ass for pissing it off. I recommend a 30-06 for the fuckers, and I kid you not.
A brown – ie. a motherfucking grizzly? F-u-u-u-u-u-ck me. I cannot even imagine the fear if I was in the underbrush with one of those beasts rampaging around. A black is bad enough – but a brown? Fuck that shit.
llpoh
May 10, 2015 11:02 pm
Seriously, IS – your pissant .38 might as well be a water pistol against a decent bear – black or ortherwise:
” Highly regarded Maine bear guide Wayne Bosowicz once had a riled black bear (riled because he was chased and treed) tear into his hounds. Wayne emptied his .357 Magnum into the chest of the bear, but it didn’t slow him down. As you might imagine, that was the end of Mr. Bosowicz’ use of the .357 Mag. He currently carries a .44 Magnum revolver.” “The nature of the black bear is such that carrying handguns for protection in the field is just plain silly. The only appropriate “protection” piece in the field is the same caliber firearm you’d use to hunt them.”
I recommend the biggest gun you can tote if you are going for bear – you can get away with .270, 30-30, etc., if the shot is well placed, but I really suggest a 30-06. .
Better yet, leave them the hell alone.
llpoh
May 10, 2015 11:09 pm
I am amused by the above quote I posted – “riled because it was chased and treed”. That is the exact fucking experience I have had a few times, and those cuddly blacks suddenly go batshit crazy. A pissed off bear, in the underbrush, snorting and fuming and beating hell out of a pack of dogs, is some scary shit.
Zarathustra
May 10, 2015 11:28 pm
Cats never attack from the front. In India in the tiger areas, people wear masks on the back of their head when walking through jungle paths to ward off attacks. I guess tigers aren’t that smart.
I knew a logger who was attacked by a cougar once. He was limbing a downed tree and it jumped on his back. He screamed and the cat jumped off and ran away. When I was young I did a lot of backpacking in the Cascades and I never saw one once, but they are a lot more common now that hunting them was banned. I never encountered a black bear either, just saw their scat at some camping spots. My understanding is that they avoid humans and will not attack unless provoked.
Iska Waran
May 10, 2015 11:55 pm
Llpoh, glad to hear that I’m not the only one nervous about encountering a black makwa (bear in Ojibwe). Had a mama and cub invade our campsite once in the BWCAW. I awoke to hear mama grunting about two feet away from my head. After that, the only way I can sleep in the wilderness is to be stoned drunk. If I’m going to get eaten by a bear, I don’t want to know about it.
IndenturedServant
May 11, 2015 12:22 am
llpoh, with all due respect I’d never participate in a hunt that involved dogs unless we’re talking about bird dogs. I’m sure they have their place but I don’t know any hunters who would hunt bear or lions with dogs. Not cool at all around here and illegal in most situations. Hell, you can get in serious trouble if your pet dog harasses wildlife.
You’re probably right about the gun. The .38 Super +P is the most powerful handgun I own, holds two more rounds than a .45 ACP and is the handgun I’m most accurate with. With a muzzle velocity of 1200fps it will knock holes in a cast iron engine block and will be better than nothing.
I just follow the rules in bear country and pick my huckleberries in the next patch over. Make a little noise to announce your presence and you’ll likely never even see a bear.
llpoh
May 11, 2015 12:38 am
IS – I do not know what current hunting laws are. It was 40 years ago that I hunted with dogs. Seriously, the scares with bears caused me to give it up – it was very dangerous, and I also came not to enjoy killing wildlife. I do not begrudge anyone their tradition, but as for me, I no longer kill wildlife.
I do kill and eat a lot of fish, though.
llpoh
May 11, 2015 12:42 am
I just looked it up – the use of dogs in hunting bear was banned in 1994 in the state where I grew up. We rarely hunted them intentionally – they were the byproduct of hunting raccoons. Still legal to hunt ‘coon with dogs, tho.
Zarathustra
May 11, 2015 12:59 am
llpoh says:
I just looked it up – the use of dogs in hunting bear was banned in 1994 in the state where I grew up. We rarely hunted them intentionally – they were the byproduct of hunting raccoons. Still legal to hunt ‘coon with dogs, tho.
__________________________
What is the point of hunting racoons?
bb
May 11, 2015 1:01 am
Never seen a bear or big cat in the woods but I have come across female pigs with little pigs and they will attack. I have seen a female pig attack one of our hunting dogs.The dog lived but was lucky. I also carry my Colt 45 when I’m in the woods.
IndenturedServant
May 11, 2015 1:03 am
llpoh, I don’t hunt anymore either but I’ll tag along with friends when they do. I love being in the woods. So many people around here hunt that at anytime I can get deer, elk, moose, antelope and caribou. I can usually find bear and even mountain lion. Most hunters go after all they qualify for so there’s never a shortage of meat especially if you’re willing to help with the dirty work.
I know it’s early days yet but how are you liking the new digs? I’m looking forward to a progress report when you have one. Must be great to be starting a new adventure at this point in your life. How old are you anyway? Over 60 or below?
Z – coons are hunted for sport and fur. I no longer hunt for either.
Llpoh
May 11, 2015 3:48 am
Shy of 60 but closing in on it.
Faux Queue
May 11, 2015 8:24 am
“What is the point of hunting racoons?”
How about the fact that they are destructive, vicious little thieving vermin that will kill your livestock and wipe out your crops if they can? Few things are as destructive as coons (pun intended), and when one meets its maker that’s a good day. I like watching the terriers get on one-doesn’t take long to reduce the population by a head.
As far as discussion of using .38’s and .45’s on bears and hogs goes, BULLSHIT. Nothing matters on tough hided, muscled animals but foot lbs. of energy and projectile mass.
Cartridge Muzzle energy ft-lb
.380 ACP 199
.38 Special 310
9 mm Luger 350
.45 Colt 370
.45 GAP 400
.45 ACP 400
.40 S&W 425
.357 Sig 475
.357 Mag 550
10mm Auto 650
.44 Mag 1,000
.50 AE 1,500
.454 Casull 1,900
.460 SW 2,400
.500 SW 2,600
With the smaller calibers, anything but a brain shot would only serve to piss the animal off, and the smaller calibers do not have the energy to penetrate the skull. If using a handgun as a defensive measure against wild animals, start at .44 magnum and go up. You don’t have a prayer with the little stuff. When we were surveying the Maine-Canada boundary we always had .44 magnums as a defense against bull moose, probably the baddest critter in the north woods. Did not have the larger calibers at the time, or would have used a .500 S&W. Use enough gun.
Faux Queue
May 11, 2015 8:41 am
A story related to me by an old German hunter:
Two guys go to Alaska on a guided brown bear hunt. My fiend’s associate gets a shot at a 900 lb. male about 80 yards away. He hit it behind the left shoulder with a 30-.06 soft point. The bear looks to the direction of the shot and charges. Guy takes one more shot that misses entirely. The guide stopped the bear about 10 yards out with a 300 Win Mag. The shooter was reduced to a blubbering mass of wimpiness who shit his pants, literally. Never hunted bear again and still has nightmares about the incident.
Use enough gun!
Brian
May 11, 2015 12:04 pm
Llpoh…”I recommend the biggest gun you can tote if you are going for bear – you can get away with .270, 30-30, etc., if the shot is well placed, but I really suggest a 30-06.”
.270 or 30-30 seems a bit lite for black bear IMO. It’ll do the job, but why fuck around? I personally use a .338 Win Mag. It will kill anything that roams N-America, plus it will reach out and touch someone.
Even though the cougar is p-shopped and way out of scale this tickles me. I don’t know why. Perhaps it is because our State DNR people laugh and snicker while claiming we have not had a wild cougar since the late 1800s. Meanwhile, credible folks see them often enough to question the official line.
Around here people hunt them. A human can actually intimidate a mountain lion enough to ward off an attack. They are ambush predators who count of stealth. If they know you’ve spotted them they will generally walk away unless corned or injured. I’ve heard plenty of stories that simply rushing them will make them flee. I know I’d rather meet a mountain lion than a bear in the woods.
I agree the image is probably shopped. It looks like a tree branch growing out of his side.
Indians around here like to keep them in small cages with concrete floors. I’d rather never see one than see them like that.
Cougars are quite dangerous if you do not see them – as IS says. If they get a chance at you from behind, they might take it, but if you are with someone, it seems unlikely to me. Lone targets would be their preference. They do not attack from the front, but from the back and from up high.
I’ve been on a few cougar/puma hunts. They do not scare me.
Bears, on the other hand, scare the ever living shit out of me. When cornered, and wounded, bears are scary as hell. I have seen a few hundred pound bear slap 80 pound dogs twenty/thirty feet through the air. You know that an animal is tough when it makes a pack of hunting hounds turn tail and run.
Llpoh, are you talking about brown bears?
It’s the lion that’s dead. That’s how they hunt them out west. Find tracks in the snow, put a pack of hounds on the trail, and when they tree it, shoot it out of the tree.
“It’s the lion that’s dead. That’s how they hunt them out west. Find tracks in the snow, put a pack of hounds on the trail, and when they tree it, shoot it out of the tree.”
——————-
Ah, but this photo shows a newly-developed aspect of the hunting process.
Bait them with a millennial taking selfies.
Of course, it’s real. It’s on the internet. Why would you fake such an epic shot?
I’ve never been in close proximity to a Grizzly but black bears are pretty timid/non-confrontational. My heart definitely pounds when I’m too close to a black bear but in every case we simply backed away and went our separate ways. The thing I fear is finding myself between a black bear and her cubs or too close to a Grizzly. I always carry a .38 Super +P in the woods just in case but worry that I might not have time to react. Those fuckers are fast!
Iska – if it was a brown, I would still be scraping shit off by backside.
It was (relatively) little bitty, teensy weensy black bears – that can weigh 500 pounds, and are immensely strong.
“Black bears … have great physical strength. Even bear cubs have been known to turn over flat-shaped rocks weighing 310 to 325 pounds (141 to 147 kg) by flipping them over with a single foreleg”.
And IS, with all due respect, has obviously never encountered one that was good and pissed off. Like they get when being surrounded by 5 or 10 hounds nipping at them, or having been shot in the ass by a .22 a time or two, ’cause we were out hunting ‘coons and stumbled on a black instead, and figured “what the hell, this here .22 will get the job done if we hit him in the right spot”.
In underbrush, higher than your head, and unable to see the fuckers, but hearing the growling and snarling, and then see a 80 lb hound come flying overhead after being slapped by one of those “pretty timid/non-confrontational blacks (as described by IS – bullshit says I) – you get a whole new level of respect for a black. Even a 200 or 300 pounder would make chopped liver out of you, and may well take a 38 and shove it up your ass for pissing it off. I recommend a 30-06 for the fuckers, and I kid you not.
A brown – ie. a motherfucking grizzly? F-u-u-u-u-u-ck me. I cannot even imagine the fear if I was in the underbrush with one of those beasts rampaging around. A black is bad enough – but a brown? Fuck that shit.
Seriously, IS – your pissant .38 might as well be a water pistol against a decent bear – black or ortherwise:
” Highly regarded Maine bear guide Wayne Bosowicz once had a riled black bear (riled because he was chased and treed) tear into his hounds. Wayne emptied his .357 Magnum into the chest of the bear, but it didn’t slow him down. As you might imagine, that was the end of Mr. Bosowicz’ use of the .357 Mag. He currently carries a .44 Magnum revolver.” “The nature of the black bear is such that carrying handguns for protection in the field is just plain silly. The only appropriate “protection” piece in the field is the same caliber firearm you’d use to hunt them.”
I recommend the biggest gun you can tote if you are going for bear – you can get away with .270, 30-30, etc., if the shot is well placed, but I really suggest a 30-06. .
Better yet, leave them the hell alone.
I am amused by the above quote I posted – “riled because it was chased and treed”. That is the exact fucking experience I have had a few times, and those cuddly blacks suddenly go batshit crazy. A pissed off bear, in the underbrush, snorting and fuming and beating hell out of a pack of dogs, is some scary shit.
Cats never attack from the front. In India in the tiger areas, people wear masks on the back of their head when walking through jungle paths to ward off attacks. I guess tigers aren’t that smart.
I knew a logger who was attacked by a cougar once. He was limbing a downed tree and it jumped on his back. He screamed and the cat jumped off and ran away. When I was young I did a lot of backpacking in the Cascades and I never saw one once, but they are a lot more common now that hunting them was banned. I never encountered a black bear either, just saw their scat at some camping spots. My understanding is that they avoid humans and will not attack unless provoked.
Llpoh, glad to hear that I’m not the only one nervous about encountering a black makwa (bear in Ojibwe). Had a mama and cub invade our campsite once in the BWCAW. I awoke to hear mama grunting about two feet away from my head. After that, the only way I can sleep in the wilderness is to be stoned drunk. If I’m going to get eaten by a bear, I don’t want to know about it.
llpoh, with all due respect I’d never participate in a hunt that involved dogs unless we’re talking about bird dogs. I’m sure they have their place but I don’t know any hunters who would hunt bear or lions with dogs. Not cool at all around here and illegal in most situations. Hell, you can get in serious trouble if your pet dog harasses wildlife.
You’re probably right about the gun. The .38 Super +P is the most powerful handgun I own, holds two more rounds than a .45 ACP and is the handgun I’m most accurate with. With a muzzle velocity of 1200fps it will knock holes in a cast iron engine block and will be better than nothing.
I just follow the rules in bear country and pick my huckleberries in the next patch over. Make a little noise to announce your presence and you’ll likely never even see a bear.
IS – I do not know what current hunting laws are. It was 40 years ago that I hunted with dogs. Seriously, the scares with bears caused me to give it up – it was very dangerous, and I also came not to enjoy killing wildlife. I do not begrudge anyone their tradition, but as for me, I no longer kill wildlife.
I do kill and eat a lot of fish, though.
I just looked it up – the use of dogs in hunting bear was banned in 1994 in the state where I grew up. We rarely hunted them intentionally – they were the byproduct of hunting raccoons. Still legal to hunt ‘coon with dogs, tho.
llpoh says:
I just looked it up – the use of dogs in hunting bear was banned in 1994 in the state where I grew up. We rarely hunted them intentionally – they were the byproduct of hunting raccoons. Still legal to hunt ‘coon with dogs, tho.
__________________________
What is the point of hunting racoons?
Never seen a bear or big cat in the woods but I have come across female pigs with little pigs and they will attack. I have seen a female pig attack one of our hunting dogs.The dog lived but was lucky. I also carry my Colt 45 when I’m in the woods.
llpoh, I don’t hunt anymore either but I’ll tag along with friends when they do. I love being in the woods. So many people around here hunt that at anytime I can get deer, elk, moose, antelope and caribou. I can usually find bear and even mountain lion. Most hunters go after all they qualify for so there’s never a shortage of meat especially if you’re willing to help with the dirty work.
I know it’s early days yet but how are you liking the new digs? I’m looking forward to a progress report when you have one. Must be great to be starting a new adventure at this point in your life. How old are you anyway? Over 60 or below?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0wSXxa3TlY
Z – coons are hunted for sport and fur. I no longer hunt for either.
Shy of 60 but closing in on it.
“What is the point of hunting racoons?”
How about the fact that they are destructive, vicious little thieving vermin that will kill your livestock and wipe out your crops if they can? Few things are as destructive as coons (pun intended), and when one meets its maker that’s a good day. I like watching the terriers get on one-doesn’t take long to reduce the population by a head.
As far as discussion of using .38’s and .45’s on bears and hogs goes, BULLSHIT. Nothing matters on tough hided, muscled animals but foot lbs. of energy and projectile mass.
Cartridge Muzzle energy ft-lb
.380 ACP 199
.38 Special 310
9 mm Luger 350
.45 Colt 370
.45 GAP 400
.45 ACP 400
.40 S&W 425
.357 Sig 475
.357 Mag 550
10mm Auto 650
.44 Mag 1,000
.50 AE 1,500
.454 Casull 1,900
.460 SW 2,400
.500 SW 2,600
With the smaller calibers, anything but a brain shot would only serve to piss the animal off, and the smaller calibers do not have the energy to penetrate the skull. If using a handgun as a defensive measure against wild animals, start at .44 magnum and go up. You don’t have a prayer with the little stuff. When we were surveying the Maine-Canada boundary we always had .44 magnums as a defense against bull moose, probably the baddest critter in the north woods. Did not have the larger calibers at the time, or would have used a .500 S&W. Use enough gun.
A story related to me by an old German hunter:
Two guys go to Alaska on a guided brown bear hunt. My fiend’s associate gets a shot at a 900 lb. male about 80 yards away. He hit it behind the left shoulder with a 30-.06 soft point. The bear looks to the direction of the shot and charges. Guy takes one more shot that misses entirely. The guide stopped the bear about 10 yards out with a 300 Win Mag. The shooter was reduced to a blubbering mass of wimpiness who shit his pants, literally. Never hunted bear again and still has nightmares about the incident.
Use enough gun!
Llpoh…”I recommend the biggest gun you can tote if you are going for bear – you can get away with .270, 30-30, etc., if the shot is well placed, but I really suggest a 30-06.”
.270 or 30-30 seems a bit lite for black bear IMO. It’ll do the job, but why fuck around? I personally use a .338 Win Mag. It will kill anything that roams N-America, plus it will reach out and touch someone.