Why is the USA!USA!USA! at war in the Middle East?
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In the “greatest achievement of organized science” thread Billy said “I don’t think that we went to war in the ME because of oil… “oil” is way, way down on the list of shit to fight over“.
Llpoh said that I was a warmonger for even suggesting countries go to war over oil.
I asked if we’re in the Middle East because of chick peas … and promptly got three thumbs down.
Apparently, everything I believed is wrong. Do tell, WTF are we fighting there … and I’m talking about the root cause.
It is the easiest way to support the Military Industrial Complex. Also, a wee bit for oil.
Reagan summed it up when he said “The American LIFESTYLE is not up for negotiation”. The American lifestyle is very dependent upon cheap, available oil.
1) The Empire desires control of ALL resources, including human ones.
2) The Empire is bigger than the USA, which is merely Empires’ police force.
3) Oil is of course a factor, but it is not the sole root cause. Empire is.
Back in PA Mike says: It is the easiest way to support the Military Industrial Complex. Also, a wee bit for oil.
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Oil and MIC are intertwined–you can’t have a dominant MIC without oil to fuel the planes/tanks/ships.
Dominance and Control over all other nations to garner their wealth. The political elite combined with the Int’l Corporations (including the Banksters) have worked for decades to undermine other nations and install their puppets (doesn’t always work), get them into debt and then apply the squeeze via more debt to allow the Corp’s to go in and plunder.
Iran needs revenue to please their population – there is a good possibility that the ‘Deal’ is a means for our Corps to go in profit from oil – (but it could be another country for soybeans, etc).
My thought is simple – whenever a country gets invaded or bombed into the ground always ask who said country owes money to. War is almost always about money in some way shape or form (for instance you might get bombed, raped and dismembered for suggesting a that a region of the world develop its own type of currency – perhaps a gold type currency – and use it to trade goods internationally). Oil is just the booty collected afterwards.
America will eventually be “invaded” or allowed to collapse internally. it is happening now – you can see the roots of the conflict growing here on this site – daily.
It owes a lot of money to a lot of people who want to be paid. Said ‘collapse’/conflict will occur when the payment cannot be made and an alternative solution must be found. The lines are being drawn now and the actors are assuming their roles.
So, if asked to answer in one word, of course, the word is OIL. Oil permeates our lives in myriad, subtle and unobserved ways. There is the presence of oil in everything that surrounds you at this very moment. BUT, the biggest reason for war in the ME, really for all US activity in the ME since at least 1953 (ouster of Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh) has been not just about oil in and of itself, but about the US empire and more specifically the Petrodollar. This is a subtle but important distinction. If the US simply wanted cheap oil, they would open the markets to all countries in the ME (and in the world) and let them fight over who gets to supply all our gluttonous demand–a concept known as competition, that has since been discarded as nonsense by legions of PhD economists (but I digress). The US citizenry does what cheap oil (of course)…The US government (Oligarchy) wants CONTROL of oil markets. By having a continuous military presence in the ME and by making nice with the Saudis (read OPEC) the US has been able not only to have a modicum of control over OPEC oil production/distribution/prices, but has been able to keep the dollar as the undisputed reserve currency by keeping OPEC oil deals demoninated ONLY in dollars. This is the real reason for 2 Iraq wars, for ousting Qaddafi, Hussein, the whole Iran nuclear bullshit, the whole Syrian clusterfuck, etc. Not quite sure the real reason for Afghanistan, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was really about opium.
Hell, I’ve delved in deeper than I wanted and I haven’t begun to scratch the suface. It is a very complex subject spanning decades and what 11-12 administrations. The only thing I am sure of is this: Whatever reason for ME involvement by anyone in any “official” capacity is utter bullshit.
Great question Stuck.
Oh, by the way, do you all know that Obama declared open war on Assad in Syria last week? Next to NO airtime about that speech, nor the jets, nor the actual deployment of murders, but there ya’ go, we are taking another anti-Saudi, anti-Israel, sovereign nation out.
I’m SURE it has NOTHING to do with the fact they have one of the few remaining central banks that are not under control of the elite that control our CBs, and the rest of the worlds.
Anyway, I used to believe all this bs about oil and terrorism and the like, but it occurs to me after LISTENING to the people that are always banging the war drums that it goes beyond just the banksters (Jews) and MIC.
It appears, to me, that there are very powerful groups that have been actively working to bring upon the Apocalypse of the book of Revelations.
That is the only thing that truly makes sense.
My next guess is the damned powerful Jews actually still believe that Jesus was no son of God and that “their” path is the only true one. They have never cared how many of us die as long as their new kingdom comes to pass.
Apparently our best and brightest can’t see this, and dutifully line up to fill their coffers with the ill-gotten gains of murder and conquest supporting our own demise. We LOVE to back the horse that is going to kill us.
Irony is if the Jews are right, all their evangelical supporters are going to be in a world of surprise when the Kingdom is denied to them.
Anyway, today’s sins/wealth/power brokers like the death, destruction and lucrative contracts quite fine.
Not 5 people out of 100 have any desire to starve the beast, break the chains and bring healing and peace to this world.
They all want to believe that their little piece of belief in man’s dominion over God’s world is valid, good, and should stay.
We are at war because very powerful men want us that way. We are also being chemically killed and nutritionally tortured by the same damned men. That is the honest truth, and that will not stop until many, many, more people wake the fuck up and start starving the beast.
Ain’t going to happen until the day after it is too late.
As an aside, the bible is chock full of Jesus being frustrated by the ceremony, stupidity and self-centeredness of man. Over and over he runs into just how hubristic and willfully ignorant we choose to be.
Two thousand years and nothing has changed, in fact, thanks to Christianity and the rise of the West, it has gotten much, much, worse.
Happy Monday
We will kick anyone’s ass in the ME or elsewhere if they try to use gold or anything other than the petrodollar in exchange for oil. Yes, we will go to war over oil to maintain control of global supply.
If Billy buys into the “we were attacked on 9/11 so we had to go to war” meme then he needs to go back to square one and start over.
The Ukraine is about our oil oligarchs trying to undermine Russia in supplying the EU with oil and natural gas……..we started the Ukraine thing without a doubt.
Oil.
Of course, other proxies are closely related … such as control and intimidation. But, those proxies follow oil. Else, we’d be in Uganda and Nepal.
Way back in 1928, the U.S. and the Middle East signed the Red Line Agreement.
Red Line Agreement —- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_Agreement
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In 1944, both parties signed the Anglo-American Petroleum Agreement. Regarding this agreement, FDR said to the Brits — “Persian oil … is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it’s ours.”
Anglo-American Petroleum Agreement —- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_Petroleum_Agreement
BOTH of these legally binding agreements came about because of the American interest to control Middle Eastern oil. It also reflected the American “security imperative to prevent the (re)emergence of a powerful regional rival”
Anyone who says we’re not in the Middle Est because of oil … or that we won’t fuck up countries there who threaten our supply of oil ….. is just massively uninformed.
For the petrodollar
Oil is one of the reasons. But, you asked for the root cause…so, it’s always about money.
But what kind of money? Where central banks exist there are two types of money, well, really there’s only one type – paper and coins… the other isn’t actually money, it’s debt. About 3% of the total is paper and coins although I’ve seen various estimates as high as 10%. That’s the only money we have… everything else is debt which spends like money, until it doesn’t. Until it doesn’t is where we sit…
The move to Asia began in the 70’s because those far-seeing Oligarchs realized that the end of the current dollar system was close. The debt-serfs(us) would soon reach the end of their ability to borrow new money into existence(2008)… so new debt-serfs must be found, enter Asia, 2.3 billion people who can’t wait to pursue the middle class lifestyle, and keep the Oligarchs in mansions and Bentleys.
(Ya’ gotta understand the whole debt-money monetary system, and, the consequences of such to fully grasp what they’ve done.)
But their end(the Asians) would someday force this whole process again… and new debt-serfs would have to found. With 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, who’ve always been fodder for the rich, they must be prepared to assume the mantle of debt-serf when the Asians are tapped out. They’ve got about a hundred years to accomplish this goal, but why not kill two birds with one stone.
Oligarchs hate democracy. They love the Chinese model of control. So… make the bastion of democracy a pariah state, put the Muslims on the road to change and happy banking for the 1/10th of one percent can continue for at least another 200 years, an end to democracy is the bonus. That’s why the Chinese build and the U.S. sends in assassins.
anyway, just my thoughts on the matter
T.E. Lawrence played a pivotal role in the Middle East – European relations during WW I. The repercussions from the Sykes–Picot and Belfour Agreements are still being felt even today. The ME has always been at war
American hegemony.
One word answer = Power
1) To keep money rolling into the hands of the military industrial complex.
2) To give the US more control over the world’s oil supply, less about direct control and more about perceived control. People like the Saudi’s play nice with us because they know that if America wanted to turn their nation into a crater, we damn sure could.
“Scream like crazy and sling shit everywhere.” – Teddy Roosevelt
3) To keep power in the hands of the government. To keep power, we need to feel threatened, to feel threatened, we need an enemy, and we also need a way to respond to said “enemy”.
So, we create “wars” on ideals, find people that align with those ideals, and then “war” upon those people. When those people are dead, we find new ideals to fight (war, communism, terrorism etc) or we create new threats to fight (ISIS).
This cycle is not just meant to fuel the MIC, but also to consolidate power at the federal level. Again, its not necessarily some big conspiracy, its a group of selfish people who have found life’s ultimate luxuries if they just concede their morals a little bit at a time. By the time they are on the big stage making big decisions wielding big power, they have gone too far, and have to keep going or either A) lose all their power (withdrawn support) or B) tar and feathered (figuratively).
At the center of this is a cycle of unending war. Communism, Poverty, Drugs, Terrorism….
I don’t think the cycle of war will end in the US. Maybe some other country some other year will get it right, and its a damned shame too, because the US has so much wasted potential. We really should be a beacon for humanity, and instead we’re just the top of the shit heap.
The problem we face is that those who wish to control others will do so, to a greater or lesser degree.
Yes it is oil, but why can’t you just buy the shit out right. “Hey Abdul, I’ll send you some money. Now deliver the oil over here.” Deal done. Why all this hellish insanity? I swear these power broker politicians are evil and they purposely create this non stop murder. Hayek’s “fatal conceit” in action.
The reason is that conflict in the ME enriches the bankers and MIC.
Follow the money. It all comes down to the money.
Stuck – we all have a pretty good idea why the US is there. But most of us also believe we should not be there for such reasons.
On the other thread you railed against using nukes, but seemed supportive of nations going to war over oil.
If you think the US should not be over there because of oil, say it loud and clear and I will assume it was just one of those lack of oxygen brain snaps you are prone to.
“On the other thread you railed against using nukes, but seemed supportive of nations going to war over oil.” ————- Llpoh
That’s totally incorrect. I never said any such thing. I only said that’s what nation’s do. Any inference that I actually support going to war over oil, well, that’s a misreading on your part.
I make them up as I see them. Facts are for pussies.
Anyone but me notice Stuck did not say war for oil is bad. He must be running for public office somewhere, as he is getting very good at being evasive.
“Anyone but me notice Stuck did not say war for oil is bad.” ——– Loopy As Shit
You’re the new Megcunt Kelly of TBP …. sticking words in mouth I did not say …. desperately trying to win people over to your side.
I don’t have to say it. Been here for many years now. People know how I feel. People know my anti-war stance.
Nice try, Injun, going on your personal warpath. Heya heya ho ho hoa blowa mea hey heya ho!
Simple…dates and pistachios. Importing Camels might be nice as they are now over $7 a pack at the Quicki Mart here,
Damn near impossible to start a decent fight around here anymore. Even the sour kraut has grown soft (I feel really bad for Mrs. Freud).
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Llpoh
I knew what you were trying to do. I tried to start some shit with you last month, and YOU didn’t bite. We’re to familiar with each other’s shit. We need to find, keep, and then pounce on some fuckin’ Newbies.
I’m in. But I am afraid our rep may be preceding us. Newbies hide like mangy curs these days.
I wonder what happened with the Fifth Estate guy, anyway?
llpoh, feel free to pick a fight with me, you ziofascist asshole.
Hey – it’s up! TBP is a WhiteSuprmacist site, the Dickhead Extraordinaire says. Have not read it yet, but here is the link.
Wake up the Admin!
http://www.the5thestate.asia/2015/08/white-supremacy-site-the-burning.html
Here is the text from the assclown (pics did not copy):
“THE 5TH ESTATE
By Robert S. Finnegan
08/07/2015
It is one thing to race-bait simply because you are a racist. It’s quite another to do it for profit. This is now the gig of Jim Quinn, former Rush Limbaugh protege’ and ex-shock jock who specialised in bathroom humor.
Quinn
Quinn was operating as the limp half of the “Quinn and Banana Show” on B-94 FM out of Pittsburgh when he decided to smear News Director Liz Randolph on air with sexual slurs and was subsequently taken to court when Randolph sued him and the station for sexual harassment.
Randolph won her case against against Quinn and the jury awarded her $694,000.00 which in addition to pauperising the dirtbag misogynist also accomplished his summary dismissal from the station in 2013.
Quinn regularly refers to the National Organisation for Women as the “National Organisation for Whores.”
Classy guy.
Losing all that cash was no doubt devastating for Quinn, and he has now moved on to greener pastures and more lucrative endeavours: race baiting for profit.
Below is a sample of some of the garbage Quinn runs on The Burning Platform, a home for racists, cross-burning white supremacists and other various and sundry illiterate scum and bottom-dwellers:
Quinn provides a “platform” for his readers to spew racist diatribe, drawing in white trailer-trash filth who obligingly fill his coffers with donations and who he openly admits he makes his living off of now. Who ever said racism doesn’t sell?
A sample of some of the trash from his hood-wearing sycophants:
It is also striking to note that this confirmed misogynist stacks and packs his website with soft-porn advertising showcasing beautiful babes. After all, if it contributes to the coffers minor details may be overlooked.
While most shock jocks are not well known for being pleasant or pillars of morality, Quinn is definitely bottom of the barrel; a washed-up, dried-up has been that has now been reduced to fishing in the sewers for his dinner.
Part 2 of this report will consist of the public records The 5th Estate has dug up on this piece of garbage.
Robert S. Finnegan is a retired investigative journalist based in Jakarta, Indonesia. He may be reached at [email protected]; +62-819-0531-2666″
Bwahahahah! Quinn the ex-shock jock! Bwahahahaha! Damn, that is too funny.
lpoh says:
Hey – it’s up! TBP is a WhiteSuprmacist site, the Dickhead Extraordinaire says. Have not read it yet, but here is the link.
Wake up the Admin!
http://www.the5thestate.asia/2015/08/white-supremacy-site-the-burning.html
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what a moroon! I still think her boobs are impressive…
He particularly loves Billy! Hahahahahaha!
His investigative skills are unreal!
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That’s not th€ same J Quinn llpoh
Kill Bill says:
That’s not th€ same J Quinn llpoh
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oh really? I’ll alert the media.
Well, this is a terrible comment to follow and add my two cents worth as I’ve won the fling shit at HER button of the month or something, but here goes.
I once took a class in my post USAF getting educated days called The Politics of Western Europe. Why? I lacked one class picking up a minor in political science and since my GI bill would pay figured why not? It was taught by a Doctoral Candidate from (gasp) FRANCE. Her name was Nathalie Friegon (Free-zhon) (She wrote the phonetic pronunciation on the board the first day, so I’ve not forgotten and heaven help you if you called her Natalie.)
Okay, the French. ‘nuf said.
She and I did not hit it off initially because I wasn’t really very impressed with her status as an international exchange student completing her doctorate in international politics at the University of Oklahoma. (Even I was only there because that is where the USAF landed me… she apparently had a choice?) Anyway, I’ll try to get to the point.
I really insisted on her explaining raison d’état. I wasn’t being difficult; I just didn’t understand it. For those of you who do understand it? You must have a European sense of the nation-state then, because even after reading Niccolò Machiavelli’s “The Prince” I still don’t get the sense of raison d’état that Nath’alie would emphasize in her lectures with a flourish of her left hand as she unknowingly (or not) would point toward France on the world map beside the lectern on the desk. (I pay very close attention to people when they speak… it helps me put their words in context and, if necessary, in writing.
I finally grasped it well enough to get an “A” in her class, but trudging through the political machinations leading into WWI and WWII and beyond with zero interest by the subject matter or the teacher in the United States except as a peripheral player in the events gave me a real perspective on how Europeans think of our country. All in all, I liked old Nath’ alie and hope she done good for herself back in France.
As for Reason of State? In a nutshell? The bureaucrats are in charge is what it means. And it seems to apply here.
In my opinion, we are at war in the middle east because the bureaucrats need to award contracts to their military vendors, who need to use vast quantities of oil producing weaponry to sell the military industrial complex, who needs to wine and dine the powerful elite who determine who will be elected, who will appoint the few bureaucrats in charge of picking the rest.
Oh, I’m HER.
KB – that is my point!
Sorry I misunderstood llpoh. So Quinn, of tbp, is being construed as supremacist shock jock…that’s fucked up.
The guy is an ass. He went crazy on here and joined the short list of folks to ever be banned.
Didn’t know dickweed posted here..
Very funny Zman.
Anonymous says: As for Reason of State? In a nutshell? The bureaucrats are in charge is what it means. And it seems to apply here.
My boss was a bit of a joker. He said, you know what a chauffeur is, right? It’s a French word, it means ‘driver’.
Reason(s) of State makes sense. Although I would not have taken all semester to grasp that. There’s an equivalent American term: ‘because’ which doesn’t sound quite as fancy. You can see why bureaucrats prefer to use French terms.
All three of Finnegan’s wake readers are going to be very impressed with the Expose on TBP!
Llpoh says: The guy is an ass. He went crazy on here and joined the short list of folks to ever be banned.
I’ve tried to be banned, it takes a lot more dickiness than I can muster. I failed at big dog status, I can’t get banned and I suck at assclown. Actually, I’m top assclown. I have two major followers. Yay.
E C – hey, at least you are good at what you do! If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing right!
Llpoh says: E C – hey, at least you are good at what you do! If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing right!
Little known fact: I-S told me a long time ago, fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke. I’m not worried about Mags calling me an assclown, everybody’s ignorant at something.
How’s things in Aussie-land? My friend Roberto said they have some gorgeous blondes over there.
@EC… if you are indeed discussing my accidental anonymous comment and not just dissing it, I’ll do so. At that time of my life, I was adjusting to being a civilian after 10+ years in the Air Force. And while being a flyer in the AF is not as regimented as other military careers might be in other branches, the propaganda and rules of order are the same.
The concept that Nathalie had such a hard time convincing me was true was that the state and the nation were not the same thing. In her office one day, the light bulb came on for me when she told me that she did not understand why I could not see that even if the nation were to cease to exist, the state could go on performing its duty to the citizens. That was when I realized that the state and the country were two very distinct things in her mind.
Now, maybe it is just me, but in my childhood education (and in the 70s when I attended the bulk of my primary educational years of school) we learned a lot about American history and politics (at least from our own point of view.) And I never heard the idea of the state and the country being two different entities. Supposedly, in that big “How a Bill Becomes a Law” chart the teachers threw up to show us how our government worked, the bureaucrats were hired to work for Congress and the Executive and, therefore, for the people of the country. They were “non-political.”
Did I not see that there were flaws in that when I was in the military? Of course I did. But I didn’t realize it was systemic. I thought it was just a few instances of poor command decisions and/or some really possessive people in Oklahoma who were overly concerned with decisions made about the AWACS program. It was only after I went to work for the bureaucracy itself a few years later that I learned what the “state” really is capable of doing.
As for the 5th estate guy? He’s going to be really upset when he finds out what an idiot he’s proven himself to be.
EC – all cool. I suppose so, but it is winter here so the blondes are all covered up.
Still working on the doomstead. Slow but sure.