Yes Stucky I am a patriot. Why because of Stalin who said : ..America is like a healthy body and is resistance is three fold ..Its patriotism , its morally , its spiritual life.
If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.. Joseph Stalin.
Now you know why there has been such an effort the undermine religion . Starts there.
“Patriotism is to support your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” – Mark Twain
kokoda
August 26, 2015 9:49 am
What IS a “patriot”?
Depends on one’s own definition.
Be careful when you follow the Gov’t decisions – it generally is not for the benefit of the public or country; it is generally for the monetary benefit of the few.
bb
August 26, 2015 9:59 am
That’s why yesterday when you said you hate patriotism I felt like reaching through my smart phone and slapping you up side your head .Undermine religion you undermine morally and then patriotism.
That was/is the real reason behind civil rights for blacks , homosexuals and the so called sexual revolution.It was /is an effort the undermine America. From the very beginning all these rights movements have been about destroying America in the name of freedom or diversity.Destroying the social cohesion and trust that once held us together .
They won .America will collapse from within. At least I know who the real enemies are and it’s not the Russians or Chinese.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 10:41 am
“I felt like reaching through my smart phone and slapping you up side your head ….” —- beebs
Hey tough guy, you KNOW where I will be on October 10th. Show up and slap me upside my head, and let’s take it from there. Don’t make excuses, fag boy. Just fucking show up.
Religion has NOTHING to do with patriotism. I’d like to reach through this computer and slap YOU upside the head for being such a moran. Maybe I’ll get the chance this October.
.
“At least I know who the real enemies are and it’s not the Russians or Chinese.” —- beebs
That’s correct. It’s people like YOU.
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
—– Sinclair Lewis
The Gospel according to beebs: Jesus died for Amurika!!
[img[/img]
Gayle
August 26, 2015 10:46 am
Yes I am a patriot. I have had a wonderful life in this country, imperfect as it is. Great freedom and opportunity have been mine, along with material abundance unimaginable for most people on the earth. The moral fortitude and work ethic of previous generations created an amazing nation.
As I watch these good things slip away, I grieve. Evil is presently having its day on the whole earth and the death of everything good is its goal. Our depraved government is fully on board with the campaign. You may want to pray.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 10:52 am
“Yes I am a patriot. ” ———- Gayle
That’s awesome. Really.
Now, if you have the time, answer the other part of the question. What does it mean, this patriotism of yours? Do you have a USA!USA!USA! bumper sticker on your foreign made car? Or, is there more to it?
DRUD
August 26, 2015 11:00 am
Patriots blindly yell “I love America” without being able to even begin to define “America.”
Is it the government? Is it the people? Is it the land? or Is it the idea?
Well let’s take a look. The government….I think it would be safe to say that none of us are big fans. BUT many will still say they love America in a geopolitical context. WTF? We (the People) have exactly ZERO say in Americas role in Geopolitics. These decisions are made by a handful of people many, if not most, of whom are genuine sociopaths. Think Paul Wolfowitz, whose Doctrine (which has been accepted as US policy since it was written) is like a cross between angry scribblings of a school yard bully and the wisdom of Ghengis Khan. Yes, please let me stand up and cheer for these assholes in the name of “Patriotism.”
The people…really? Especially here on TPB, we should know better. America is the most ethnically, socially and economically divided population on earth. There is no “American People.” The “Melting Pot” is one of those nice ideas that doesn’t really work. Or at least,. it only works when times are good, everything’s growing and the future’s so bright we all have to wear shades. When SHTF the “Melting Pot” model provides a perfect recipe for civil war.
The land…beautiful, amazing, diverse…but looked at through a different lens, the land really doesn’t give a good fuck what it is done with it or who walks on it for a few decades, centuries or millenia. So, the “land” in any measurable context is about the people and their use of the land. Well, once again, the people are doing their best to fuck it up, a case of “shitting where you eat” writ large.
That only leaves only America the IDEA…the idea that people are free to make of themselves whatever they may and that the government that governs best governs least. This IS worth being patriotic about…but two points 1) we have drifted so far from this idea that current America in no way is similar to America the idea and 2) America the idea can be practiced anywhere and on any scale.
I suggest to many of you Patriots out there that your patriotism represents a blind support for the STATE of America. Yet, most of you hate Statism and therefore are suffering greatly from cognitive dissonance.
I suggest the best Patriotism to be found at this stage in the game is the last part of the Idea of America:
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 11:04 am
Interesting question Stuck, where do you stand?
Iska Waran
August 26, 2015 11:12 am
Stucky, I’m naturally skeptical of “patriotism” because it’s usually mere jingoism. Wanting what’s best for your country is natural and good so long as it’s not based on immoral actions against the people of another country (forcibly dumping all of our garbage on Bermuda or something). We could “imagine there’s no countries” like John Lennon, but other countries aren’t under that delusion. They’re trying to get a foothold against us. I’m not a country music fan, so when I hear that song “proud to be an American” I get my guard up a little bit – but I was recently at a lakeside bar in the country and when it came on, it was like a church hymn to the rural people there. I’ll admit that the line “from the lakes of Minnesota…” pulled my chain. And there was alcohol involved.
TPC
August 26, 2015 11:17 am
Yes I’m a patriot.
1) That means I’m in favor of a strong military to defend our borders, and non-involvement in foreign affairs. You want US troops on your soil? Either attack us, or apply to be a territory.
2) I’m in favor of freedom for all. Gays want to get married? Who gives a fuck, its between them and their faith, because government has no role to play in marriage.
3) US trade? Tariffs. Want to trade with us on a zero tariff basis? Tough shit, US manufacturing belongs within US borders.
4) Protect US citizens from mega-corporations, not the other way around.
5) Force congress to do their damn jobs, right now they’ve outsourced everything to the Executive branch and mega-corporations.
…..I could go on, you get the idea.
The America I love has been seen in bits and pieces over the years, but has never really existed as a complete entity at any one point in time.
I guess I’m an idealist and a dreamer. Whatever.
Iska Waran
August 26, 2015 11:17 am
DRUD,
I don’t know if e pluribus unum will work, but one way to guarantee it fails is to not have a slowdown in immigration to allow time for recent immigrants (or more likely, their kids) to assimilate.
Iska Waran
August 26, 2015 11:21 am
TPC, I recently met a guy who’s gay and married. I said “hey, if your wife’s OK with it, who am I to judge?”
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 11:37 am
Iska Waran
Do you understand that John Lennon was referring to the Zionist Joo led One World Government, is that your dream also?
Gayle
August 26, 2015 11:38 am
Stucky
I’m not a “my country right or wrong” kind of patriot. Not into the red, white and blue nor bumper stickers. The conservatives alarm me almost as much as the liberals.
Some of what we have done throughout our history appalls me. Some of what we have done makes me proud. However that balances out, there must be a reason immigrants still will risk life and limb to get here.
One of the most patriotic things I have done was campaign for Ron Paul. Twice. That should define my brand of patriotism as well as anything.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 11:40 am
Crickets from Stucky? I’ll ask again, where do you stand?
Rise Up
August 26, 2015 12:21 pm
Gayle says: “…However that balances out, there must be a reason immigrants still will risk life and limb to get here.”
——————————-
I’d bet most of them come here for the free shit.
bb
August 26, 2015 12:22 pm
Sticky , I’m going to kick you in the nuts first then slap you upside your head .Then leave you in New Jersey completely surrounded by third world bottom feeders.
Patriotism means still believing in the Constitution and the founding principles that have guided this republic. It means believing the founding fathers created a nation that was worth fighting for. I’m not very patriotic these days. I use to believe America was Great because it was good. Now it’s neither great or good but it is still the best thing around
I look forward to kicking your ass and don’t call me beebs.One other thing :You’re buying all my beer.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 12:24 pm
Bea
Why should I answer you? So that you can make a snarky comment and run?
I stand at about 6’7″.
I also stand 100% with Big Dog, DRUD. Best possible answer of the day. Couldn’t have said it any better myself. And for his efforts he gets no votes (until I just now voted up) ….. while you Klowns vote down my Jeebus pic. But, you can’t bury truth with a down vote.
Pirate Jo
August 26, 2015 12:27 pm
What DRUD said. I would give DRUD ten thumbs-up if I could. Sums it up perfectly.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 12:30 pm
Who here would ever say I have run from anything, not my style? Tell me what this truth is of which you speak. (not being snarky)
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 12:56 pm
Yes, your question IS snarky. You know goddamned well what the truth is, regarding the pic I posted;
—- that for the vast majority of Americans their mantra is; God, country, family
—- that Americans believe God cares more about this country than virtually any other (Israel being first)
—- that many believe Jesus is a Republican
—- that God blesses our wars …. He’s ALWAYS on our side
—- that America is the “New Jerusalem”
—- that so many Americans, such as seen here on TBP with beebs and his ilk, actually DO wrap their ideology an a flag and a cross
—- that not one in a thousand understands what an Abomination this ideology must be to God
DRUD
August 26, 2015 1:11 pm
Both my dad and my brother genuinely believe exactly what you outline, Stucky. They are good people and definitely not stupid, but I think a bit blind in this regard. Staunch Republicans, both.
I like to look at fundamentals…not market fundamentals, but what causes societies to from markets in the first place (for example).
I have posted this link before and I will continue to do so because I think it is the best, most well thought out and comprehensive study of the fundamentals of where we are (in a historical context) and where we must (and therefore WILL) go.
Nicole’s article could be one of the Ten Best Articles on the internet …. a while back I copied it to my hard drive
AnarchoPagan
August 26, 2015 1:36 pm
I have to disagree with Drud that America is just the idea of America. There is a distinctively American culture that I don’t see anywhere else being the equal of. Politics – “Don’t tread on me”. Kickass rock and roll, or country or bluegrass, whatever your thing happens to be. Movies – “Yippie-kay-yay, motherf*cker.” “Do you feel lucky, punk?” Sci-fi – Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica. Food – big and hearty; I don’t think Outback Restaurants started in Australia, although the Aussies are like us in a lot of ways. I’ll be sad when it’s all gone.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 1:54 pm
No, I’m not being snarky Stuck.
Drud describes a country that is sick/infested and then in his later sentences assigns the cure (11:00am). I agree with most of your (12:56) post and I was at no time ever commenting on the pic you put up.
What I am asking is what are you advocating? What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?
nkit
August 26, 2015 2:17 pm
In response to the Sinclair Lewis quote, I alternatively offer this this quote:
“When fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jack-boots. It will be Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts. Smiley-smiley. Fascism—Germany lost the Second World War. Fascism won it. Believe me, my friend.” ~ George Carlin
DRUD
August 26, 2015 2:18 pm
Great point, Pagan. I happen to agree with your disagreement of my post. There certainly are some distinctly American cultures…and movies may be the most unifying thing the American people have.
There was an old episode of Norther Exposure where Leonard (and Indian shaman played by Graham Greene) is looking for the White Man’s collective unconscious–the thread that ties them all together. Ultimately, after much searching and thinking the search hopeless, he finds out that it is movies.
Guy
August 26, 2015 2:27 pm
I don’t think I could directly answer that question, because patriotism is one of those words whose meaning is distorted and exploited intentionally to cloud our better judgement. It’s bait and switch. When someone thinks of patriotism, they probably think of the land they called home, their neighborhoods, friends and families, tradition, and wanting to keep it safe and protect it. If that is the case, I would say yes. I would prefer to live in and protect this northwestern european culture, minus the puritanical thought extremism.
When the word patriotism itself is invoked most is usually when politicians attempt to drum up fear that an artificial threat will come halfway around the world to take away everything they’ve ever known. Usually to justify taking away all of their freedom and to massacre thousands of people they’ve never met. If Jeb Bush asked me if I were a patriot, I would say no. If Ron Paul asked me, I would probably say yes. “What are we fighting for?” ‘Freedom.’ “So you are enslaving us and taking away our basic freedoms in order to fight for freedom?” Crickets.
DRUD
August 26, 2015 2:32 pm
In my point about the American People, I did feel a little on shaky ground. We ARE socially, racially and economically divided to a ridiculous degree…BUT there are a LOT of good people out there in the USofA and there are some thngs (as Pagan pointed out) that are unique to American culture. These things work great for social unity when everything is rosy, but when Fourth Turning roll around, I do not think they will be even close to enough to prevent immense civil unrest and possible (perhaps likely) civil war.
To answer Bea’s question (I know it was posed to Stuckly, but I’d like a crack at it):
There is nothing to do to save the system. NOTHING.
There are things to do on an individual level:
1) Prepare as best you can (I think most here are on that path).
2) Take Carlin’s advice and effect a complete emotional detachment from the system. It is silly to engage in the trivial debates (rhetoric slinging) that the politicians put before us (gay marriage, immigration, war on whatever…) and especially to become emotional about it. We are on the Titanic, the iceberg has been struck, the sinking is already set in stone it is only a matter of time.
3) Enjoy the day–which may include flinging some feces here on TBP.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 2:46 pm
So DRUD, after the country sinks from hitting the iceberg what do you see as our next step? Are you in favor of World Government, Monarchy, joining Canada, USA and Mexico into one large country called Mexcanica, what?
Let me remind you that when this Constitutional government is gone you will have no more rights in this world than the lowly kneegrow sitting in his hut in Africa. Do you really want something different or do you want to stand together to save the Republc?
DRUD
August 26, 2015 2:53 pm
Stand together to save the Republic? Do you listen to yourself? The Republic is ALL about concentration of Power…exactly the same as it was during the Civil War.
The EMPIRE that is the USA!USA!USA! will collapse just like all empires in the past. It matters not what you or I do, this will happen. There will be a fragmentation process. What I am saying is this will happen no matter what action is taken. It is written in the Law of Thermodynamics , the Laws of Economics, and the History of All Societies Everywhere (read the Nichole Foss article people).
About “rights”: to which rights are you referring. In my copy of the Declaration of Independence they are endowed upon us by our Creator, not by the Government. The government we have ONLY takes them. I need no “rights” given to me by this government.
DRUD
August 26, 2015 2:54 pm
oh and
4) Love those close to you as best you can and treat all the strangers yo meat with courtesy and respect.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 2:57 pm
The stink coming from the rotting corpse of popular American Christianity, here, in its full glory;
[img[/img]
DRUD
August 26, 2015 2:59 pm
I do advocate carrying the IDEA of America forward into whatever society emerges from the ashes of this one. Again, people are free to pursue their own happiness in this existence, so long as they do not explicitly harm others…government exists to secure these rights to liberty and provide the very short list of things that the free market will not and basically then stays out of everyone’s affairs.
Again, this works on ANY scale. The only reason to expand the scale is to increase the power of those at the top.
DRUD
August 26, 2015 3:01 pm
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck-fuck, Stucky…that picture not only proves our demise and our total lack to think critically, but actually makes me want the collapse to fucking hurry up and get here if only so I never again have to see such crap.
Thumbs up for posting it though 🙂
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 3:05 pm
“What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?” ———- Bea
Bea, suppose you inherited this house below. What would you do to fix it?
[img[/img]
Nothing! It is beyond fixing. There’s only one thing you CAN do. Tear it down, start over.
The USA is that house.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 3:09 pm
Bea,
With all due respect, instead of asking so many questions, how about answering them yourself?
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 3:10 pm
So DRUD is saying that the experiment that was the USA!USA!USA! is a failure and he would like for it to be over but then says we should work with what is left from the ashes (sounds like saving the Republic to me). Drud is then patriotic in that he would like to restore this country to what it was intended under the Constitution.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 3:18 pm
Stuck- I would like for the illusion of America to be more like it was in the 50’s and 60’s. I was born here, it is my country and I would like for it to be restored . If that is patriotic then so be it. Being patriotic is simply standing up for and defending the country/system you believe in.
I hate the war mongering mess that we have become but refuse to throw it away. I think we are on the same page but sometime you sound very radical.
DRUD
August 26, 2015 3:19 pm
Bea…I am only saying what will happen (and only in general and over a long time period) and what I can do about it. That’s all.
I don’t care if that makes me a “patriot” in your mind or anyone else’s.
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 3:21 pm
” … you will have no more rights in this world than the lowly kneegrow sitting in his hut in Africa.”
————— Bea Lever
Oh, please!!!
White people generally don’t sit in huts.
Also, we have a much higher IQ. We build stuff, like magnificent Gothic Cathedrals …. and invent stuff, like electricity, engines, and pretty much mostly everything you see.
We’ll figure it out.
DRUD
August 26, 2015 3:23 pm
Personally, i wish I have been born into nearly any other era in human history…but to me the best time/place in history to be born was the late 19th/early 20th century in the USofA.
But as the adage aptly states:
Wish in one hand and shit in the other….
Stucky
Author
August 26, 2015 3:31 pm
“Being patriotic is simply standing up for and defending the country/system you believe in.”
—— Bea Lever
Well, at least you’re one of the few people who gave THEIR definition. Kudos!! THAT was the entire point of the question! lol Maybe I should have been more clear. Except, how much simpler could I have worded the question, “What is a patriot?”. It’s just four words.
There’s nothing wrong with defending a system one believes in. By that definition, I could be a patriot also … except for the fact that as explained in the pic above, the “system” is broken beyond repair.
“Patriot” is one of those words which has changed drastically over the years. I’ll bet George Washington would give us a quite different answer than what most people today would give.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 3:37 pm
Stucky says “We’ll figure it out”
No, the power elites will figure it out for you . You will get the form of governance that is chosen for you, most likely will come with a high level of control. Ask the Russians how they figured it out after their collapse.
Bea Lever
August 26, 2015 3:47 pm
Can we all join hands and sing Kumbaya now? I think for a very long time the experiment called America was indeed a wonderful thing to experience. Can it be saved, I don’t have a clue. Hope so.
IndenturedServant
August 26, 2015 5:10 pm
A patriot is someone who thinks for themselves, is a lover of freedom and liberty and is willing to fight for it if need be.
FWIW, this does not apply to those who join the military to go kill brown people. Brown people, at least those in foreign lands, are not a threat to us despite what our freedom and liberty destroying “leaders” tell us.
Spinolator
August 26, 2015 5:33 pm
Patriotism is an interesting construct. Something to rally a group of people around. Originally intended to have people with similar ideas live in a way they all agree. I believe the true and original intent of it is short lived as it happens within a power structure and those at the top are sooner rather than later corrupted by power and use it to exploit. Makes you feel good though. Gives you a sense of purpose and belonging. That is very primal.
Westcoaster
August 26, 2015 11:15 pm
A “patriot” is what we have none of in the Senate and barely in the House. They’re traitors and should be removed from office. Don’t get me started on POTUS.
Zarathustra
August 26, 2015 11:55 pm
“Patriotism is bullshit.” – me Put otherwise, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” – Samuel Johnson. When I hear that term, I know that whomever uttered it is a fucking idiot.
Zarathustra
August 26, 2015 11:58 pm
Stucky says:
“What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?” ———- Bea
Bea, suppose you inherited this house below. What would you do to fix it?
[img[/img]
Nothing! It is beyond fixing. There’s only one thing you CAN do. Tear it down, start over.
The USA is that house.
___________________________
Common Detroit doom porn but what a shame. A sturdy house with an intact slate roof. I bet the interior was once magnificent.
Yes Stucky I am a patriot. Why because of Stalin who said : ..America is like a healthy body and is resistance is three fold ..Its patriotism , its morally , its spiritual life.
If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.. Joseph Stalin.
Now you know why there has been such an effort the undermine religion . Starts there.
“Patriotism is to support your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” – Mark Twain
What IS a “patriot”?
Depends on one’s own definition.
Be careful when you follow the Gov’t decisions – it generally is not for the benefit of the public or country; it is generally for the monetary benefit of the few.
That’s why yesterday when you said you hate patriotism I felt like reaching through my smart phone and slapping you up side your head .Undermine religion you undermine morally and then patriotism.
That was/is the real reason behind civil rights for blacks , homosexuals and the so called sexual revolution.It was /is an effort the undermine America. From the very beginning all these rights movements have been about destroying America in the name of freedom or diversity.Destroying the social cohesion and trust that once held us together .
They won .America will collapse from within. At least I know who the real enemies are and it’s not the Russians or Chinese.
“I felt like reaching through my smart phone and slapping you up side your head ….” —- beebs
Hey tough guy, you KNOW where I will be on October 10th. Show up and slap me upside my head, and let’s take it from there. Don’t make excuses, fag boy. Just fucking show up.
Religion has NOTHING to do with patriotism. I’d like to reach through this computer and slap YOU upside the head for being such a moran. Maybe I’ll get the chance this October.
.
“At least I know who the real enemies are and it’s not the Russians or Chinese.” —- beebs
That’s correct. It’s people like YOU.
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
—– Sinclair Lewis
The Gospel according to beebs: Jesus died for Amurika!!
[img
[/img]
Yes I am a patriot. I have had a wonderful life in this country, imperfect as it is. Great freedom and opportunity have been mine, along with material abundance unimaginable for most people on the earth. The moral fortitude and work ethic of previous generations created an amazing nation.
As I watch these good things slip away, I grieve. Evil is presently having its day on the whole earth and the death of everything good is its goal. Our depraved government is fully on board with the campaign. You may want to pray.
“Yes I am a patriot. ” ———- Gayle
That’s awesome. Really.
Now, if you have the time, answer the other part of the question. What does it mean, this patriotism of yours? Do you have a USA!USA!USA! bumper sticker on your foreign made car? Or, is there more to it?
Patriots blindly yell “I love America” without being able to even begin to define “America.”
Is it the government? Is it the people? Is it the land? or Is it the idea?
Well let’s take a look. The government….I think it would be safe to say that none of us are big fans. BUT many will still say they love America in a geopolitical context. WTF? We (the People) have exactly ZERO say in Americas role in Geopolitics. These decisions are made by a handful of people many, if not most, of whom are genuine sociopaths. Think Paul Wolfowitz, whose Doctrine (which has been accepted as US policy since it was written) is like a cross between angry scribblings of a school yard bully and the wisdom of Ghengis Khan. Yes, please let me stand up and cheer for these assholes in the name of “Patriotism.”
The people…really? Especially here on TPB, we should know better. America is the most ethnically, socially and economically divided population on earth. There is no “American People.” The “Melting Pot” is one of those nice ideas that doesn’t really work. Or at least,. it only works when times are good, everything’s growing and the future’s so bright we all have to wear shades. When SHTF the “Melting Pot” model provides a perfect recipe for civil war.
The land…beautiful, amazing, diverse…but looked at through a different lens, the land really doesn’t give a good fuck what it is done with it or who walks on it for a few decades, centuries or millenia. So, the “land” in any measurable context is about the people and their use of the land. Well, once again, the people are doing their best to fuck it up, a case of “shitting where you eat” writ large.
That only leaves only America the IDEA…the idea that people are free to make of themselves whatever they may and that the government that governs best governs least. This IS worth being patriotic about…but two points 1) we have drifted so far from this idea that current America in no way is similar to America the idea and 2) America the idea can be practiced anywhere and on any scale.
I suggest to many of you Patriots out there that your patriotism represents a blind support for the STATE of America. Yet, most of you hate Statism and therefore are suffering greatly from cognitive dissonance.
I suggest the best Patriotism to be found at this stage in the game is the last part of the Idea of America:
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”
Interesting question Stuck, where do you stand?
Stucky, I’m naturally skeptical of “patriotism” because it’s usually mere jingoism. Wanting what’s best for your country is natural and good so long as it’s not based on immoral actions against the people of another country (forcibly dumping all of our garbage on Bermuda or something). We could “imagine there’s no countries” like John Lennon, but other countries aren’t under that delusion. They’re trying to get a foothold against us. I’m not a country music fan, so when I hear that song “proud to be an American” I get my guard up a little bit – but I was recently at a lakeside bar in the country and when it came on, it was like a church hymn to the rural people there. I’ll admit that the line “from the lakes of Minnesota…” pulled my chain. And there was alcohol involved.
Yes I’m a patriot.
1) That means I’m in favor of a strong military to defend our borders, and non-involvement in foreign affairs. You want US troops on your soil? Either attack us, or apply to be a territory.
2) I’m in favor of freedom for all. Gays want to get married? Who gives a fuck, its between them and their faith, because government has no role to play in marriage.
3) US trade? Tariffs. Want to trade with us on a zero tariff basis? Tough shit, US manufacturing belongs within US borders.
4) Protect US citizens from mega-corporations, not the other way around.
5) Force congress to do their damn jobs, right now they’ve outsourced everything to the Executive branch and mega-corporations.
…..I could go on, you get the idea.
The America I love has been seen in bits and pieces over the years, but has never really existed as a complete entity at any one point in time.
I guess I’m an idealist and a dreamer. Whatever.
DRUD,
I don’t know if e pluribus unum will work, but one way to guarantee it fails is to not have a slowdown in immigration to allow time for recent immigrants (or more likely, their kids) to assimilate.
TPC, I recently met a guy who’s gay and married. I said “hey, if your wife’s OK with it, who am I to judge?”
Iska Waran
Do you understand that John Lennon was referring to the Zionist Joo led One World Government, is that your dream also?
Stucky
I’m not a “my country right or wrong” kind of patriot. Not into the red, white and blue nor bumper stickers. The conservatives alarm me almost as much as the liberals.
Some of what we have done throughout our history appalls me. Some of what we have done makes me proud. However that balances out, there must be a reason immigrants still will risk life and limb to get here.
One of the most patriotic things I have done was campaign for Ron Paul. Twice. That should define my brand of patriotism as well as anything.
Crickets from Stucky? I’ll ask again, where do you stand?
Gayle says: “…However that balances out, there must be a reason immigrants still will risk life and limb to get here.”
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I’d bet most of them come here for the free shit.
Sticky , I’m going to kick you in the nuts first then slap you upside your head .Then leave you in New Jersey completely surrounded by third world bottom feeders.
Patriotism means still believing in the Constitution and the founding principles that have guided this republic. It means believing the founding fathers created a nation that was worth fighting for. I’m not very patriotic these days. I use to believe America was Great because it was good. Now it’s neither great or good but it is still the best thing around
I look forward to kicking your ass and don’t call me beebs.One other thing :You’re buying all my beer.
Bea
Why should I answer you? So that you can make a snarky comment and run?
I stand at about 6’7″.
I also stand 100% with Big Dog, DRUD. Best possible answer of the day. Couldn’t have said it any better myself. And for his efforts he gets no votes (until I just now voted up) ….. while you Klowns vote down my Jeebus pic. But, you can’t bury truth with a down vote.
What DRUD said. I would give DRUD ten thumbs-up if I could. Sums it up perfectly.
Who here would ever say I have run from anything, not my style? Tell me what this truth is of which you speak. (not being snarky)
Yes, your question IS snarky. You know goddamned well what the truth is, regarding the pic I posted;
—- that for the vast majority of Americans their mantra is; God, country, family
—- that Americans believe God cares more about this country than virtually any other (Israel being first)
—- that many believe Jesus is a Republican
—- that God blesses our wars …. He’s ALWAYS on our side
—- that America is the “New Jerusalem”
—- that so many Americans, such as seen here on TBP with beebs and his ilk, actually DO wrap their ideology an a flag and a cross
—- that not one in a thousand understands what an Abomination this ideology must be to God
Both my dad and my brother genuinely believe exactly what you outline, Stucky. They are good people and definitely not stupid, but I think a bit blind in this regard. Staunch Republicans, both.
I like to look at fundamentals…not market fundamentals, but what causes societies to from markets in the first place (for example).
I have posted this link before and I will continue to do so because I think it is the best, most well thought out and comprehensive study of the fundamentals of where we are (in a historical context) and where we must (and therefore WILL) go.
Nicole’s article could be one of the Ten Best Articles on the internet …. a while back I copied it to my hard drive
I have to disagree with Drud that America is just the idea of America. There is a distinctively American culture that I don’t see anywhere else being the equal of. Politics – “Don’t tread on me”. Kickass rock and roll, or country or bluegrass, whatever your thing happens to be. Movies – “Yippie-kay-yay, motherf*cker.” “Do you feel lucky, punk?” Sci-fi – Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica. Food – big and hearty; I don’t think Outback Restaurants started in Australia, although the Aussies are like us in a lot of ways. I’ll be sad when it’s all gone.
No, I’m not being snarky Stuck.
Drud describes a country that is sick/infested and then in his later sentences assigns the cure (11:00am). I agree with most of your (12:56) post and I was at no time ever commenting on the pic you put up.
What I am asking is what are you advocating? What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?
In response to the Sinclair Lewis quote, I alternatively offer this this quote:
“When fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jack-boots. It will be Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts. Smiley-smiley. Fascism—Germany lost the Second World War. Fascism won it. Believe me, my friend.” ~ George Carlin
Great point, Pagan. I happen to agree with your disagreement of my post. There certainly are some distinctly American cultures…and movies may be the most unifying thing the American people have.
There was an old episode of Norther Exposure where Leonard (and Indian shaman played by Graham Greene) is looking for the White Man’s collective unconscious–the thread that ties them all together. Ultimately, after much searching and thinking the search hopeless, he finds out that it is movies.
I don’t think I could directly answer that question, because patriotism is one of those words whose meaning is distorted and exploited intentionally to cloud our better judgement. It’s bait and switch. When someone thinks of patriotism, they probably think of the land they called home, their neighborhoods, friends and families, tradition, and wanting to keep it safe and protect it. If that is the case, I would say yes. I would prefer to live in and protect this northwestern european culture, minus the puritanical thought extremism.
When the word patriotism itself is invoked most is usually when politicians attempt to drum up fear that an artificial threat will come halfway around the world to take away everything they’ve ever known. Usually to justify taking away all of their freedom and to massacre thousands of people they’ve never met. If Jeb Bush asked me if I were a patriot, I would say no. If Ron Paul asked me, I would probably say yes. “What are we fighting for?” ‘Freedom.’ “So you are enslaving us and taking away our basic freedoms in order to fight for freedom?” Crickets.
In my point about the American People, I did feel a little on shaky ground. We ARE socially, racially and economically divided to a ridiculous degree…BUT there are a LOT of good people out there in the USofA and there are some thngs (as Pagan pointed out) that are unique to American culture. These things work great for social unity when everything is rosy, but when Fourth Turning roll around, I do not think they will be even close to enough to prevent immense civil unrest and possible (perhaps likely) civil war.
To answer Bea’s question (I know it was posed to Stuckly, but I’d like a crack at it):
There is nothing to do to save the system. NOTHING.
There are things to do on an individual level:
1) Prepare as best you can (I think most here are on that path).
2) Take Carlin’s advice and effect a complete emotional detachment from the system. It is silly to engage in the trivial debates (rhetoric slinging) that the politicians put before us (gay marriage, immigration, war on whatever…) and especially to become emotional about it. We are on the Titanic, the iceberg has been struck, the sinking is already set in stone it is only a matter of time.
3) Enjoy the day–which may include flinging some feces here on TBP.
So DRUD, after the country sinks from hitting the iceberg what do you see as our next step? Are you in favor of World Government, Monarchy, joining Canada, USA and Mexico into one large country called Mexcanica, what?
Let me remind you that when this Constitutional government is gone you will have no more rights in this world than the lowly kneegrow sitting in his hut in Africa. Do you really want something different or do you want to stand together to save the Republc?
Stand together to save the Republic? Do you listen to yourself? The Republic is ALL about concentration of Power…exactly the same as it was during the Civil War.
The EMPIRE that is the USA!USA!USA! will collapse just like all empires in the past. It matters not what you or I do, this will happen. There will be a fragmentation process. What I am saying is this will happen no matter what action is taken. It is written in the Law of Thermodynamics , the Laws of Economics, and the History of All Societies Everywhere (read the Nichole Foss article people).
About “rights”: to which rights are you referring. In my copy of the Declaration of Independence they are endowed upon us by our Creator, not by the Government. The government we have ONLY takes them. I need no “rights” given to me by this government.
oh and
4) Love those close to you as best you can and treat all the strangers yo meat with courtesy and respect.
The stink coming from the rotting corpse of popular American Christianity, here, in its full glory;
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I do advocate carrying the IDEA of America forward into whatever society emerges from the ashes of this one. Again, people are free to pursue their own happiness in this existence, so long as they do not explicitly harm others…government exists to secure these rights to liberty and provide the very short list of things that the free market will not and basically then stays out of everyone’s affairs.
Again, this works on ANY scale. The only reason to expand the scale is to increase the power of those at the top.
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck-fuck, Stucky…that picture not only proves our demise and our total lack to think critically, but actually makes me want the collapse to fucking hurry up and get here if only so I never again have to see such crap.
Thumbs up for posting it though 🙂
“What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?” ———- Bea
Bea, suppose you inherited this house below. What would you do to fix it?
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Nothing! It is beyond fixing. There’s only one thing you CAN do. Tear it down, start over.
The USA is that house.
Bea,
With all due respect, instead of asking so many questions, how about answering them yourself?
So DRUD is saying that the experiment that was the USA!USA!USA! is a failure and he would like for it to be over but then says we should work with what is left from the ashes (sounds like saving the Republic to me). Drud is then patriotic in that he would like to restore this country to what it was intended under the Constitution.
Stuck- I would like for the illusion of America to be more like it was in the 50’s and 60’s. I was born here, it is my country and I would like for it to be restored . If that is patriotic then so be it. Being patriotic is simply standing up for and defending the country/system you believe in.
I hate the war mongering mess that we have become but refuse to throw it away. I think we are on the same page but sometime you sound very radical.
Bea…I am only saying what will happen (and only in general and over a long time period) and what I can do about it. That’s all.
I don’t care if that makes me a “patriot” in your mind or anyone else’s.
” … you will have no more rights in this world than the lowly kneegrow sitting in his hut in Africa.”
————— Bea Lever
Oh, please!!!
White people generally don’t sit in huts.
Also, we have a much higher IQ. We build stuff, like magnificent Gothic Cathedrals …. and invent stuff, like electricity, engines, and pretty much mostly everything you see.
We’ll figure it out.
Personally, i wish I have been born into nearly any other era in human history…but to me the best time/place in history to be born was the late 19th/early 20th century in the USofA.
But as the adage aptly states:
Wish in one hand and shit in the other….
“Being patriotic is simply standing up for and defending the country/system you believe in.”
—— Bea Lever
Well, at least you’re one of the few people who gave THEIR definition. Kudos!! THAT was the entire point of the question! lol Maybe I should have been more clear. Except, how much simpler could I have worded the question, “What is a patriot?”. It’s just four words.
There’s nothing wrong with defending a system one believes in. By that definition, I could be a patriot also … except for the fact that as explained in the pic above, the “system” is broken beyond repair.
“Patriot” is one of those words which has changed drastically over the years. I’ll bet George Washington would give us a quite different answer than what most people today would give.
Stucky says “We’ll figure it out”
No, the power elites will figure it out for you . You will get the form of governance that is chosen for you, most likely will come with a high level of control. Ask the Russians how they figured it out after their collapse.
Can we all join hands and sing Kumbaya now? I think for a very long time the experiment called America was indeed a wonderful thing to experience. Can it be saved, I don’t have a clue. Hope so.
A patriot is someone who thinks for themselves, is a lover of freedom and liberty and is willing to fight for it if need be.
FWIW, this does not apply to those who join the military to go kill brown people. Brown people, at least those in foreign lands, are not a threat to us despite what our freedom and liberty destroying “leaders” tell us.
Patriotism is an interesting construct. Something to rally a group of people around. Originally intended to have people with similar ideas live in a way they all agree. I believe the true and original intent of it is short lived as it happens within a power structure and those at the top are sooner rather than later corrupted by power and use it to exploit. Makes you feel good though. Gives you a sense of purpose and belonging. That is very primal.
A “patriot” is what we have none of in the Senate and barely in the House. They’re traitors and should be removed from office. Don’t get me started on POTUS.
“Patriotism is bullshit.” – me Put otherwise, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” – Samuel Johnson. When I hear that term, I know that whomever uttered it is a fucking idiot.
Stucky says:
“What idea/plan do you have to replace our system?” ———- Bea
Bea, suppose you inherited this house below. What would you do to fix it?
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Nothing! It is beyond fixing. There’s only one thing you CAN do. Tear it down, start over.
The USA is that house.
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Common Detroit doom porn but what a shame. A sturdy house with an intact slate roof. I bet the interior was once magnificent.