Drinking and Driving vs. Drunk Driving

Guest Post by Eric Peters

It is important to make distinctions. To know exactly what we are talking about before we “do something” about it.bullet headed Hero

For instance, drinking and driving and drunk driving. There is a distinction to be made here.

An important one.

Why on earth should it be illegal – a crime – merely to have been drinking and driving?

Emphasis on merely.

Put another way, why should it be a punishable offense to have been drinking when one’s driving can’t be faulted? Unless of course the object of the exercise is to impose a kind of low-rent Prohibition –  to punish people for drinking – this makes no sense at all.

But it does seem to be the object of the exercise.

Which is why the law increasingly package-deals the consumption of alcohol – any alcohol at all – with “drunk” driving. Those under 21 (who may not legally buy, possess or consume alcohol) can be convicted of “drunk” driving if they are found with even a single empty beer can in the car at a “sobriety checkpoint.” It does not matter whether the driver even drank the single can of beer. The presence of the empty can is sufficient.

For those over 21, the definition of “drunk” is nearly as hysterical.Carrie Nation

In every state, you are automatically presumed to be a “drunk” driver if your blood alcohol content is .08 regardless of your driving. Mark that. Your actual driving is not the issue, as far as the law is concerned. It is not necessary for the arresting officer to even assert that he saw you driving erratically, much less prove that you were.

Even if you got him to concede in open court that he’d been following you for miles as you drove down a curvy mountain road and could not point to anything about your driving that indicated that you were other than in full control of you vehicle before finally pulling you over for a seatbelt violation or because the little light over your license plate was out – and subsequently, you “blew” a .08 in the Breathalyzer – it would not matter.

You are a “drunk” driver.

You could win the Indy 500 – sure proof that no matter what proof your blood might be, you are a damned fine driver but if your BAC is over whatever the arbitrary number is (currently, it is .08; it used to be .10 and before that, it was .12) then legally speaking, you are a dangerous, reckless, irresponsible, out-of-control “drunk.”

Your faultless driving is not admissible evidence that while you may indeed have been drinking, you weren’t “drunk.”

This is crazy. Like Carrie Nation. obey this sign

But the law is lazy.

It does not want to be burdened with the obligation to prove that you – specifically – have had “too much” to drink. That would need to be established on a case-by-case basis, because each individual varies in his driving ability as well as his ability to handle his booze.

A person of low-average ability behind the wheel who has had nothing to drink but nonetheless wanders across the double yellow in every curve is legally acceptable (or at most, if a cop witnesses it, may get cited for a minor traffic offense) while the high-skilled driver who stays in his lane even though he has had a couple of beers gets arrested at a “sobriety checkpoint” solely because his BAC is over the ever-diminishing allowable threshold. The former faces a small fine and gets to drive home, wandering all over the road. The latter faces thousands in fines and goes to jail.

Because the law wants a one-size-fits-all (and thus, necessarily dumbed-down) standard that is based on a bait-and-switch.

Driving is no longer the focus. That would require observation and evidence, which was as it used to be. If you were driving erratically – across the double yellow, for instance – that was the necessary probable cause for pulling you over to investigate further. But if you weren’t driving erratically then a cop had no legal basis to pull you over because he had no probable cause. If your driving could not be faulted, the presumption was you were a competent driver. Whether you’d been drinking was immaterial. As it ought to be.

This reasonable standard has been replaced by shockingly unreasonable random stops without any probable cause whatsoever and the conflation of arbitrarily decreed trace amounts of alcohol in one’s system with drunkenness.

The sell is that more “drunks” are captured this way. In truth, they are merely catching more people who’ve been drinking.

It’s not quite the same thing.asleep at the wheel

If the argument is that people who drink (even a little) and drive are as a general rule “drunk” by definition (no matter their individual driving) and the only criteria necessary to establish a criminal case is the presence of small traces of alcohol in their system (or even just a single empty can of beer on the floorboards) then why shouldn’t people who are over the age of say 65 who – in general – have weaker eyesight and slower reflexes and a higher likelihood of being afflicted with dementia and so on – likewise be presumed dangerous behind the wheel, regardless of their competence behind the wheel?

Arrest them all!

Of course, grokking this point requires a conceptual faculty, the ability to discern principles and apply them to particulars. Most Americans lack this, courtesy of government schooling – which trains them to react emotionally instead. This makes it easy to demonize demon rum without (for the moment) demonizing older people as a class.

Their turn will necessarily come. Because one thing does follow another.

Most people, unfortunately, do not comprehend.

They target fixate on the emotional jihad du jour. Right now it is “drunk” driving. Perhaps tomorrow it will be elder driving. Or some other goat group.

Government schools have done their work, brilliantly.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
21 Comments
Stucky
Stucky
November 3, 2015 7:32 am

I understand what EP is saying. I even agree with it.

BUT ….. remove drunk driving laws and you WILL see an increase in drunk driving deaths … probably a huge increase.

The reason is simple; the laws are so damned harsh — to the point where your life can be RUINED with even one DUI — that many people refuse to drink and drive out of FEAR. Even me … and I’m a pretty big guy. I will NOT drink more than two beers if I know I’ll be driving afterwards … and I drink ZERO hard alcohol. I just don’t need the fucking aggravation and headaches of being stopped and having that breathalyzer registering ANYTHING.

Better safe than sorry. And trust me, folks, my life is not boring simply because I don’t drink at a party.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
November 3, 2015 7:56 am

Stucky said:
” the laws are so damned harsh — to the point where your life can be RUINED with even one DUI”

They can’t be that harsh. I know lots of people who have multiple DUI’s and even a couple with at least seven DUI’s. Some are white trash, some are quite respectable. Getting a DUI doesn’t seem to even slow them down.

Stucky
Stucky
November 3, 2015 8:14 am

IS

That’s simply amazing. Maybe it varies by state? Ms Freud has several court appointed DUI cases … FIRST time offenders, and it’s hell. And God help repeat offenders here in this state.

Just two things can cut DUI by 95%, or more;

—1) Put that device in cars where the engine won’t start if you’re over the limit

—2) Place copfuks outside the bars … instead of randomly harassing motorists.

I know Libertarians won’t like the above. But, even they would have to admit that it would be quite effective

Back in PA Mike
Back in PA Mike
November 3, 2015 8:18 am

Stuck, they used to park one in front of our favorite watering hole. We’d send out a sober person for them to follow, worked every time.

starfcker
starfcker
November 3, 2015 8:25 am

Great column, EP. Nailed this one. One of the big feeder operations for the legal/industrial complex

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
November 3, 2015 8:26 am

Shit Stucky……..they just drive without a license once they get their first and that means no insurance either. I think the jails are too crowded to lock people up for drugs, theft, burglary, assault, DUI etc.

I knew two guys who did a couple weeks in “night prison”. That’s where they let you out to go to work during the day but you go back every night.

My best friend was one of them. They had a bench warrant out for him for about ten years but never caught up with him and he drove everyday. He finally turned himself in and they made him do 15 days. That was 15 years ago.

starfcker
starfcker
November 3, 2015 8:39 am

Great stay out of jail tip. NEVER pay a bar tab with a credit card. NEVER

Pirate Jo
Pirate Jo
November 3, 2015 8:44 am

I just get drunk at home.

Kill Bill
Kill Bill
November 3, 2015 9:55 am

I have had to take a dozen breathalyzers over the years..never failed one. Blew like .06 when limit was .08 when limit was 1.0 then finally they trapped me. Took the breath test, “Good, Good, Keep Blowing.” Green light flashed on. Test complete. Took me back to Detox holding cell.

45 minutes later they came back. Said test was inconclusive. Asked me, “Will you take another breath test?”

“Whats the limit on how many breath tests I am required to take?” I asked.

No answer forthcoming. Just another question by porkz, “Will you take another breath test?”

I already took one, I will not take another I said.

They said I refused the test and gave me automatic DWI.

BTW there is a difference between DUI (driving under influence) and DWI (Intoxicated)

They also dont have to give a breath test, or field test, even if you demand it, for PI (public intox) just the porkz word is enough to jail and fine you.

Dutchman
Dutchman
November 3, 2015 10:01 am

It’s all about money – first lower the BAC limit to make more people criminals.

Money for that MADD cunt. for the courts / cities / cops / reeducation camp. Everybody (gubmint) wins, except the citizens.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 3, 2015 10:02 am

You should be glad we don’t have European standards for what constitutes too drunk to drive.

In any event, as we become a Muslim country the drinking problem should diminish greatly, their laws about alcohol use seem to be more effective than ours.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 3, 2015 10:08 am

You should be glad we don’t have European standards for what constitutes too drunk to drive.

In any event, as we become a Muslim country the drinking problem should diminish greatly. Their laws about alcohol use seem to be more effective than ours.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
November 3, 2015 10:12 am

Back when the Feds were arm-twisting all states to go to .08, they held hearings at our state legislature and brought in a bunch of people whose kids had been killed by drunk drivers. Lots of weeping. Problem is, most of those accidents had drivers with BAC of .29, .34, as high as .40. What the fuck does that have to do with reducing the limit from .10 to .08? Politics runs on emotion, not logic.

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
November 3, 2015 11:10 am

Setting BAC at 0.08 is not perfect but it is at least fair. You have to have some sort of standard given the sheer number of deaths that result from drunk driving. But the empty can thing is just ridiculous.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 3, 2015 12:15 pm

I’m all in favor of allowing people legally drink and drive as long as I’m also legally allowed to kill or maim them and their family if they kill or maim one of mine while doing so.

Until then, until such a law is passed, I’ll support drunk driving laws and standards.

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 3, 2015 12:21 pm

Kill Bill,

If you didn’t think another test would show you were drunk then why did you refuse it?

And what did your lawyer tell you about them being allowed to require multiple tests? Are they allowed to do that?

I believe they do have the right to cite you with drunk driving if you refuse a test and appear drunk, but you didn’t refuse it and they still have to prove it in court.

Montefrío
Montefrío
November 3, 2015 12:41 pm

My province has out-progressived the US on this one: we have a Zero Tolerance law. That’s right: ZERO! Even .01 gets you a huge fine and license loss and for all I know a night in the tank.

I’m an “elder” and last year noticed that my night vision isn’t what it used to be, so I do next to no driving at night and therefore don’t come in contact with the breathalyzer boys. The nearest control point is beyond our village out toward the highway to the nearby “big” (pop. 50k) town, set up around three a.m. right outside the exit from the wildly popular discotheque. Designated drivers are popular folks on weekends and truth told, every parent likes the idea of that control point. Dutch is right though: overall, it’s all about the money.

AnarchoPagan
AnarchoPagan
November 3, 2015 12:47 pm

The libertarian solution to drunk driving (and I believe Eric would agree with me here) is not to lock up drivers who haven’t injured anyone; that just fattens the prison-industrial complex as Dutchman said, and ruins lives for no reason. The solution is to force those who have injured someone to pay compensation, by lifetime indentured servitude if necessary; I think that would also deter people just as well as a DUI conviction from driving with diminished capacity.

rhs jr
rhs jr
November 3, 2015 10:23 pm

Some enlisted youngsters invited me to a party after duty hours so I popped in. There was the booze bar which I avoided but drank the Hawaiian Punch liberally while taking to folks. Suddenly it hit me and I asked if it was spiked and they said Everclear. l hung around briefly but Mrs gets nasty when I stay out too late so I drove home very carefully (a real piece of cake compared to being low on fuel in a bad thunderstorm over the runway) and parked close to the door. I don’t know why there was a delayed effect but I had to crawl up the steps. Mrs went nuts. If I’m ever even a little high again, I’ll call a cab.

oknowyerstartintopissmeoff
oknowyerstartintopissmeoff
November 4, 2015 8:06 am

Theres no cabs here abouts. Seriously, none. How are you going to get home after dinner other than drive. I like a couple three beers on a friday night with my fish fry. (Couple three is six for those who dont know). I guarantee at least half the traffic on the roads is people who have been drinking. And some are mighty intoxicated. You pretty much have to crash or drive like shit in town to get a dui. Yet theres one in the paper almost every week. Back on the dirt roads, its nothing but drunks. So to me, the law seems moot. You put up a check point, people just take a dirt road. Done it myself. If you crash, seems to me thats its own punishment right there. Too many laws, too arbitrarily enforced. And too damned focused on the little guy, while big, more organized crime gets a pass. But whats pissing me off today is that I pay for a license to hunt my own land. Today, somewhere on my property a government official in a ranger uniform will be tresspassing on my land again, to try and find me to see if I complied and bought the damn license after his warning. Hope he gets hit by a drunk driver.

Maggie
Maggie
November 4, 2015 3:26 pm

I just returned from visiting my son and got stopped by a cop for speeding and it turned into a rather amusing ordeal and he left embarassed and gave me a “verbal warning” instead of a ticket. So, I come on here looking for the COPFUK of the day story to tell it and this is the best I come up with?

SHEESH.