Robmu1 and I will be going to our first gun show on Saturday at the PA Expo Center in Oaks. Based on the pictures of people in line, it is hugely popular. I’m not looking forward to standing in a long line with a high temperature of 16 degrees on Saturday. With Obama and his liberal minions attempting to subvert the 2nd Amendment, I’m sure the crowds will be HUUUGE. I wonder if two suburban desk jockey dudes will stand out like a sore thumb. I should find an old flannel shirt and wear a MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN hat to fit in.
My plan is to buy a Smith & Wesson revolver that Avalon can handle easily. We have a Glock 19, but I think it’s time for a 2nd weapon. Any suggestions when it comes to S&W revolvers?
If you want something really small, here’s a Glock 43 for $499 with free shipping:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/23968/s/glock-pistol-43-proglo-night-sight-9mm-ui4350501/
You’ll need a local FFL to do a transfer. They will probably charge $25 or so. Big retail gun stores may do this, but are your last choice. There are many home-based FFL licensees who do a small business and are happy to do transfers at a reasonable cost. You can find them in various databases including:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/ffl.php (even though this is hosted by one shop, the dealers listed are generally going to be happy to take transfers from any other commercial dealer)
http://www.fflregistry.com/FFL-Dealers-Location/Pennsylvania-PA
http://fflgundealers.net/transfer/pennsylvania/
Just FYI. Don’t get price-gouged at the gunshow. Harry P. and I are on the same page, and something that’s really out of style might be found at a good price.
@JIMSKI Okay dude, you have your experience, I’ve had mine. If you want to make the argument that revolvers as a class of handgun are just as prone to fail to operate properly as a semi-auto, I think you are being disingenuous.
There is no question that semi-autos are more complex in how they operate compared to a revolver.
There is no question that semi-autos in general can be finicky about what ammo they “like”.
Semi-autos can be a great choice for those willing to train extensively so that the controls are second nature, and so that clearing failure to feed/extract issues can be dealt with quickly.
For everyone else, you can’t beat the reliability and ease of use of revolvers.
And I’m no semi-auto hater, either. I have a SIG P227 and love it.
Admin – As you know, opinions are like belly buttons because everyone has one. In my experience, most ladies do better with the smaller caliber handguns because of less recoil. This improves accuracy and most gals enjoy shooting them more. For concealed carry, a smaller revolver like HSF’s suggestion on the .32 would be a fine choice. Or having multiple 9mm semi-automatics is not a bad thing in any family. Some 9mm’s have adjustable backstraps on the pistol grip that allows for the difference sizes of hands. A smaller grip/backstrap can really make all the difference for gals who are more petite. Gun shows can be a crapshoot (pardon the pun). Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes not. No matter what you get, it’s always best to visit the range often and keep practicing. Good luck..
good ways to not get price-gouged
go through the whole show before buying anything. i literally saw glock 19’s for $600 a hundred yards from the dealer i bought mine from for $490.
do a quick search on http://www.gunbroker.com using a phone if you see something you like. its basically ebay for firearms and i use it all the time to see real time pricing.
I’ll weigh in on this typical but increasingly silly debate of revolver vs. semiauto:
“@JIMSKI Okay dude, you have your experience, I’ve had mine. If you want to make the argument that revolvers as a class of handgun are just as prone to fail to operate properly as a semi-auto, I think you are being disingenuous.”
By far the most severe jams I’ve ever had have been with revolvers. They don’t jam often, but when they do they lock up solid and you are SOL. In both cases with different, nearly new, Ruger revolvers, one in 38/357 (a GP100) and the other a Single Six in .22LR. A tiny bit of grit in the right place inside a revolver locks it up. This is not true of any semiauto pistol I’ve used.
“There is no question that semi-autos are more complex in how they operate compared to a revolver.”
Actually a Glock is simpler in operation than a double-action revolver and has less stuff to go wrong.
“There is no question that semi-autos in general can be finicky about what ammo they “like”.”
Some of them can – mostly older designs made in older days. I am something of a pistol collector and I have at least 8-10 semiauto pistols that have never jammed – ever. That includes three Glocks, several of the hammer-fired Ruger pistols, and two different 1911s.
In my personal experience with 10’s of thousands of rounds, avoiding jams in semiautos is quite simple and only requires:
1) Use quality ammo. Anything decent. Not “gun show reloads” or ammo made in countries where you wouldn’t drink the water.
2) Use undamaged quality magazines. The factory magazines in any decent gun, or good aftermarket magazines. Generally, avoid Pro-Mag, Triple K and some other obvious-junk brands. If the magazine gets damaged, replace it.
3) Keep the pistol basically clean and lubed. Nothing in depth is required, but if you can’t see the metal with all the crud in the way, clean it.
4) Don’t limp wrist the gun. This is probably the biggest cause of malfunctions these days.
“For everyone else, you can’t beat the reliability and ease of use of revolvers.””
Revolvers of similar power are heavier, wider and more expensive than semiautos, carry fewer cartridges, and are slower to reload. I don’t see the benefit.
One more thing – price does not consistently equal quality in the pistol world. Rugers are inexpensive and Glocks are average priced, both are extremely reliable. Kimber makes some very expensive 1911s that, from what I’ve personally seen, sometimes run like seized lawnmowers. Kahr and Sig (modern production) are also not-inexpensive brands that don’t always work out of the box. I absolutely love my CZs but they have not been trouble free out of the box like my Glock and Ruger pistols have been.
Admin, if you want to stink with the 9mm round , but still want a hammer-less wheel gun , here’s another option..
Ruger LCR 9mm
Ammo prices are constantly changing, but I can’t remember a time when 9mm range ammo was more expensive than .38 special. Sharing common ammo with your semi-auto pistols is another perk. Even if you don’t envision some end-of-the-world-nuclear-wasteland ammo scrounging scenario, it can be a major convenience to minimize the number of calibers you keep in your personal stockpile.
If you stumble into a “Model 60”, buy it–5 shot .38 spl, the stainless equivalent of the Model 36 “Chiefs’s Special”–I’ve carried one daily for 41 years now–never had to draw it yet, it has never been spotted by anyone who caused trouble, usually in a pocket holster , but sometimes IWB–no rust, ever, in the most humid DC and Delmarva weather–with practice, I can shoot squirrels out of trees with it–a couple to some feral attack punks chest should be easy
Whoops–that Model 60 I advise above as having been a great daily carry gun for me is, if you didn’t figure it out, a S&W classic–I don’t know if they still make them, but a pawnshop find made 40 years ago would be well worth grabbing–they fit an ankle holster nicely, too, btw.
I would suggest that you go to a shooting range before you buy a gun. If you are not familiar with all the different types and calibers.
This would help in getting the size, fit and feel the a gun before you buy.
Just remember that if buy the wrong gun >>>>> you will get screwed in the trade in.
As for a 357 my choice is a TrauasTracker
Do not forget along gun AR-15 and ammo.
Da
from persnickety:
1) Use quality ammo. Anything decent. Not “gun show reloads” or ammo made in countries where you wouldn’t drink the water.
hahaha, well said
generally i’d keep to factory mags as well, the only exception being magpul magazines, the stuff they make is legit as fuck.
FN’s are excellent too but many models cost a pretty penny.
i’ve heard great things about the newish FNS 9mm. its priced right there with the glock 19 too.
I agree with Flash. The Ruger LCR in 9MM is much softer shooting that the S&W 642 in .38 Spl. (I have both) Also the ballistics of the 9MM are better. Actually the LCR in 9MM is almost the same as a .357 since you lose so much with the short barrel on the .357.
After seeing all of your advice I’ve narrowed it down to 60 possible guns.
Thanks. 🙂
Personally, I have always recommended a small Brownng for ladies to carry. Not especially powerful, but light and reliable and pretty accurate.
I believe many of us on this thread drifted from Admin’s rubric of Smith & Wesson. oooops! 🙂
“i’ve heard great things about the newish FNS 9mm. its priced right there with the glock 19 too.”
I’ve owned both the FNP-40 (hammer fired) and FNS-40 (striker fired). They are pretty decent. I sold the FNP because I didn’t like the plastic trigger. The FNS-40 has light recoil for a .40 and no real defects, but no huge strengths either. Those are also basically full-size pistols, more comparable to a Glock 17 than anything compact. Whatever the specs may look like on paper, the FNS is significantly larger and heavier than a Glock 19. Admin would (still!) be better off with another Glock 19.
Admin – I would stay with a 9mm so you can stock up with just one kind of ammo that you can also use in your Glock. For S & W maybe consider this one. Came out a few years ago & you might find some at your gun show. Is also a reasonable price:
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/smith-and-wesson-m-and-p-shield-semi-auto-9mm-31-barrel-7-rounds-no-external-safety-polymer-frame-black-10035-022188864151.do
After seeing all of your advice I’ve narrowed it down to 60 possible guns.
Thanks. 🙂
haha,
you’re welcome.
did you really expect any other result?
but seriously just look for a deal on a glock 19 and if you find a deal get another one and let me know when you are ready for help building your own AR-15, i’ll walk you thru the whole process.
PS – by small do not mean the .25. The .32. Not made any more but plenty out there. Lots of folks make a .32.
If it is for conceal carry, I suggest Roget the revolver. Gotta have a semi, for size/thinness of carry.
“Forget the revolver” should have said above.
persnickety,
the way this thread has tangented from S&W the fns-9 comment was more for people other than admin. see my comment above.
i have an fnx in 45acp and it is the only handgun i prefer to my 19.
Admin-What does Avalon specifically want it for? Target practice, home defense, or CC? There has been a ton of good advice above (and some questionable), but fundamentally, if the gun will not be carried, larger (within reason and good grip fit) is better. Whereas, CC obviously requires compromising weight and barrel length for convenient carry.
Since you started off asking about a S&W revolver, I would weigh in that a .357 is pretty versatile, and .38/.357 ammunition is quite readily available. May or may not be especially affordable. It is also very easily reloadable, should you ever go there. .38 is available in a variety of “strengths”, so practice can be pleasant and pain-free. Very important.
For fun shooting and non-carry defense, I prefer a 5″-6 1/2″ barrel. Model 19/66 would be good, or 686. For CC, I am a fan of the old-school Bodyguards-2″ barrel, and shrouded hammer allows firing from within a pocket or purse. But they are awkward to fire single action, which I prefer for plinking.
AKAnon
It is essentially for home defense. She won’t be carrying it around with her.
I agree with both Persnickety & llpoh above. A semi-auto is a better fit in a woman’s purse as opposed to a revolver. Both have their advantages, tho. Let us know what you decide!
Everyone has an opinion, and I’m no different, I suppose…
What would I get your better half? Well, it should be (in no particular order):
– Easy to handle.
– Easy to feed.
– Easy to hit with.
– Easy to repair.
– Reliable in the extreme.
– Made of good shit (ie: NOT plastic)
– Not finicky about ammo.
– Easy to carry.
– Fairly jury-proof, just in case.
That being said, I would go with a “pinned and recessed” S&W in .38 SPL. An older police trade-in would be fairly good – most cops don’t do a whole lot of shooting. Just their qualification and then it rides around in a holster for months. They’re usually pretty OCD about cleanliness and the department would make sure it was kept in good working order.
If you could find one with a 4″ barrel and adjustable sights, I’d get one. Maybe a couple.
If you can’t find anything of the S&W persuasion, then I’d find a good Colt. On the high end, you’ve got the Python, but that’s a pretty big hog to eat and it’s pretty heavy as well. One of the smaller framed 38’s would be fine. Some departments also ran Colts, so even a Dick Special (The Detective Special) would be fine. Get the 3rd Gen ones, as the ejector rod is shrouded. Earlier versions don’t have that bit shrouding it…
Here…
Smith & Wesson Model 15. Police trade in. 4″ tube. Fully adjustable sights. Solid, dependable, accurate. A good gun.
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Here. A Colt Detective Special. 3rd Gen. Same as above – solid, dependable, accurate. And, frankly, a bit more upscale than the S&W.
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But, in the end, it’s what she likes best. If she’s comfortable with it, can hit with it reliably, can feed it and carry it comfortably, then so long as it’s dependable in the extreme and accurate, who cares what she carries?
The answer to the question “What’s the best gun?” is “The one you are most comfortable with”…
Guns are tools for the weak. If you want to do real damage, biological weapons is what you want. You can exterminate millions with one bomb. You people are living in the goddamn dark ages with your guns.
Admin, My first choice for my Mrs when she can’t have her shotgun….Is her late Uncles hammerless Vintage S&W 5 shot 38 special..I’d bought her a newer S&W 5 shot Stainless Steel chief model same caliber but Plus P Rated before she inherited her uncles ..The newer model has much Nicer Sights, grips, triggers are about the same,decent enough…If you are Bargain Hunting Look for the smaller 40 cal Shield or 9MM S&W same model auto loading pistol..These Girly men we are turning out these days think the Shield 40 Cal recoils too much..With or W/O the Safety that S&W Shield either caliber is a winner…Mike, AKA two gun
Oh, and just in case you’re interested, Colt is re-issuing their M1903 semi auto. For now, only in .32 ACP, but they will be re-issuing it in .380 ACP as well… probably next year.
Very classy, too. There’s a reason why folks on either side of the law carried them – they’re dependable, they’re good pocket guns and they’re accurate. Not using sights – I mean point shooting. I used to own a pair of them. It’s like shooting with your finger.
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@Admin – Good Luck! It is a rather surreal experience for the first time. There are new guns, old guns, used guns, more gun parts than you can image. You might feel like a kid in a candy store.
I would NOT recommend buying a gun right off unless you really really know what you want and have checked out prices, as you can get totally carried away.
There are usually some guys there making custom knives, beautiful things of topflight workmanship, as well as guys that can make custom leather stuff.
Personally, anymore, since we are proud owners of The HZK Home Armory and don’t need any more guns or ammo, I just like to kick back and look at the people.
Have a good time and give us all a report!
Admin-in that case, ignore anything with a barrel shorter than 4″. A solid S&W .357, stored loaded with .38 +P defense loads should fit the bill. Have Avalon practice with wadcutters or light loads (and just enough of her +P ammo to be comfortable and confident). Then load .357 if you guys go camping.
Or abandon the S&W revolver requirement and follow the suggestions to get another G19, especially if she likes it. I concur that a comparable but different 9mm is a poor choice-if you two mix up mags in a critical situation, you will be sorry.
FWIW, I have owned a number of Smith revolvers and like them all. But while Rugers don’t have the same finish and “class”, I have found them highly functional and more sturdily built. My “going to the woods” carry guns are Rugers.
As for Avalon, I think a nice ladies gun is a 9 mm size, single stack unless she has large hands. I have a Berretta I really like and also carry a Kimber ultracarry .45 (with a laser sight).
The other key is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.
And keep a clean gun so you can easily work the slide. I take mine out every couple of days and just work the slide to keep (some semblance) of upper body/hand strength. That is where a lot of women get into trouble with semiautomatics versus revolvers.
Last bit of me sticking my nose in this, and then I’ll go away.
My wife is 5’7″ and slim. I started her out on a .22 revolver, then moved to a .22 auto, then upped the power incrementally until she was comfortably shooting heavy .45 Colt loads and blazing away all my .45 ACP ammo out of a 1911A1. She did not like my HK USP in .45 ACP – the ‘checkering’ on the backstrap hurt her hands. She did like shooting the big .45 Colt wheelguns – they tend to roll upwards with recoil, rather than straight back, so you don’t get the full “whomp” of recoil into your hands and arms.
It’s about training. With the proper training, anyone can handle anything. Not a fan of 9mm anything – all the specialized ammo is trying to get the 9mm to act like a .45… all in all, I’d rather carry a .45.
My wife carries a S&W Performance Center 686-3+ Mag Comp. Carries 7 shots of .357 instead of 6, glow in the dark fully-adjustable tritium sights and has a compensator at the end of the barrel in front of the front sight.
This isn’t hers, but it’s close enough – just to give you an idea of what’s out there…
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If it’s for home defense, and not carry, get another glock 19. She knows the gun, can shoot the gun accurately, great gun, and you can load two guns out of the same ammo box. Revolvers are carry guns. Glocks are great pistols
Yeah. For home defense, maybe go with a longer barrel. But also keep in mind she might want to carry it someday when TSHTF. I still like the 9mm for the gals. Less recoil than a 38, 40, 45 or 357. Some argue the latter guns have more “stopping power” in an aggressive situation. But many experts disagee. If you want, maybe Google “stopping power of 9mm versus higher calibers” and decide for yourself. Then, maybe buy hollow point ammo if you can do so in your state. Just my thoughts…
Here is just one:
http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/7-reasons-cops
Up to you.
PS – the reason I know this shit is because my buddies and I debate it constantly. Especially when it comes to the women. In fact, we developed corregated targets that my best friend currently sells through vendors nationwide, including, to law enforcement concealed carry classes. Just my 2 cents…
Admin-re fitting in: I think you will find a friendly, helpful bunch of folks. Just leave your tux and your “I’m Ready For Hillary” T-shirt home and you should do just fine.
I’ll be going to the Dulles Virginia “Nation’s Gun Show” on Saturday. I’ve been about 1/2 dozen times and this is held about 8 times a year. Big show but I’ve rarely had to wait in line to get. $10 charge.
Looking for some target ammo for my Mini-14 and .45 ACP, but I’ll also be scoping out the Berreta PX4 Storm Compact for concealed carry. I really like the reviews and want to see how it feels in my hand. Seen ’em online for as low as $442 (yeah, there’s that FFL transfer tagged on top, of course).
Check out the review here:
Admin said Avalon isn’t going to conceal carry, but this Taurus Curve is interesting:
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Ruger gp 100 .357 but also fires .38 special . Never had a malfunction with a revolver.
Prefer Ruger to S&W . S&W can have a ‘Timing ” problem after , well a lot of rounds.
Ruger? Not so much in my experience. In excess of 10000 rounds.
Absolutely going bang everytime I need it regardless of rounds or time , um Ruger GP 100 .
Recoil ? Fair on .357 hot load, .38 not bad at all .
Lady friend once upon a time , needed weapon , she felt most comfortable carrying and firing the GP 100. From a selection of several … handguns. She wasn’t big , But it fit her like a knife .
She chose it as the best fit .
If you are buying something like this , cry once , don’t cry often .
Take her with you , so she can find something with the right feel for her.
Course im just an uneducated hick lol whatever
Rise Up, Taurus guns range in quality from fair to poor, and the Curve has had bad reviews so far. I only touch Taurus guns when they are copies of someone else’s design (their PT99 and 1911).
Re: the Ruger GP100 revolver. I had one for a while. Awesome revolver, indestructible. Shooting full power .357 magnum was a little brisk but nothing painful. The thing weighed 3 pounds and was big enough to look like a Dirty Harry gun. Got a good price on selling it. Would be good for hunting, but too big for most other uses, even target shooting.
I still have a short SP101 revolver that is one of my concealed carry options. Very well made. I’m a fan of Ruger revolvers, I just don’t think a revolver is usually the best choice for smaller calibers. If you want to go hunting with a handgun, or need defense against brown and polar bears, revolvers are a top pick.
Admin,
1. Ball cap…something a little badass
2. Make that flannel shirt plaid
3. Something camo wouldn’t hurt
4. Facial hair (scruffy is good)
Oh wait….that’s my state…n/m
Fuck taurus, their guns are shit. Ive owned 2 and currently own 0.
Not hi-point which is comically bad but still shit i wouldnt ever want to have to depend on ever which means its a gun ill never own.
Start off with a lot of exploratory feel and fondle. Hand size and comfort are all-important.
My first pistol was a Colt Woodsman in 1950. Got into IPSC in 1980. Had a table at two to four gunshows a year for right at 30 years. Through the years, I’ve shot almost all major brands and cartridges up to .44 Maggie. Reloading, gunsmithing, all that gun-bug stuff.
Old days, my pet carry gun was a Colt Lightweight Commander. Age and arthritis now have me toting a Smith 642CT. The laser gives a whole new meaning to “Light ’em up!”
Once upon a jury, the coroner’s report said that any of the five HydraShoks from a snubby .38 would have been fatal. As it was, the five hits had the bad guy on the ground almost instantly.
Regardless of selection, practice feeling and fondling and dry-firing a whole lot. Range time as you have opportunity and funds. Even if professional instruction is not readily available or affordable, at least read Massad Ayoob’s writings. And learn your local laws on self-defense.
FWIW: My in-the-bed pistol is an FN 5.7. 20 rounds. Bulky, but light weight and low recoil. The horror show at Fort Hood proved its effectiveness.
My significant other is critical about accuracy, she loves hitting the reactive targets gallery style. Hitting them on the move sends her squealing!!! So she loves the longer slide, the longer the sight radius the easier it is to shoot well. If Avalon enjoys the range, and enjoys shooting tighter groups than you, consider the glock 17 or the 17L, same pistol as the 19 just shoots better. Get her the trijicon RMR red dot for Christmas to really enhance her lethality, she will be putting all her rounds in the 10 ring. Best luck, have fun and be safe, pistols are dangerous bussiness at all levels.
Persnickity,
I once listened in on a conversation, at a wedding, between two guys who seemed to know something about guns. One was going to Alaska and planning to forward his .357 revolver to carry in the woods as his defense against bears. The other dude told him he would have to jamb the gun down the throat of an attacking brown bear to stop it. They were both drinking. Was either one of them right?
Gryffyn, I’m not sure if enough people have shot at bears with handguns (of any type) and lived to tell about it that we really know what caliber is or isn’t adequate for bear defense. Professionals who worry about bears bring a 12ga shotgun at the smallest, and most would bring a magnum centerfire rifle or something that slings a huge bullet like a 45/70 levergun.
With that huge disclaimer, the common wisdom is this:
-a .357 Magnum is effective on people, marginal at best on deer, and ineffective for anything larger; worthless against a brown bear, unless maybe you can get several through-the-eye shots in a row
-a .44 Magnum is OK on deer, OK on black bear (they aren’t very big), and marginal but better than nothing against large bears
-something like a .454 Casull or .480 Ruger is considered the minimum “adequate” revolver caliber for brown bears
If I were going into bear country I would bring a centerfire rifle in at least the .30-06 class. If I were going regularly (like in Alaska) I would bring something like a .338 Win Mag or a .450 Marlin.
Second Billy on the police trade in model 15. Carried my uncle’s as a teenager up on the Copper River Delta. I have a foresite scar on my forehead from borrowing asshole’s 357 chambered with four 38 then one last 357. Much different recoil. Got issued one riding C130Es in United States Air Force. Did good qualifying. A number two pencil makes the same sized hole. Bought the last one for $75.cash and carry at a brick and mortar store. There was thousands surplus. Four inch barrel minimum required here for hunting applications. When carrying a big game rifle will be unlikely to carry a sidearm. Strap one on for preseason scouting.
Preclusion is where self defense by firearm fails in legal proceedings. Why didn’t you just jump out the window? Or take any number of different actions that didn’t include shooting. Be too upset to talk to responding police. Anything you say can be used against you. However nothing you say can be used for you. Whatever you might have said not being used against you will be dismissed as hearsay.. Only that you were in fear of being killed instead of the corpse is plenty for their report.
Be sure of your target and what is beyond.
Persnickity,
What you say makes sense. F=MA ,(force equals mass times acceleration). I was on a trip north of the Arctic Circle in Alaska and our guide had a large caliber rifle which stayed in camp. Legend has it that a brown bear has never attacked a group of 6 or more humans and there were 8 of us. One day we watched a bear, a mile away and downwind, pick up our ripe scent and run away. However, several days later we learned from the bush pilot who picked us up that a brown bear had killed and partially eaten a husband and wife who were camping in the next river valley. The husband had a rifle in their tent and tried to use it but the bear won.
So, bit of a digression, but it comes down to the scout motto, “Be prepared”, properly prepared.
Billy, just a quick question. A lot of the classic guns you describe are blue. Is their any advantages to blued guns. I get the classic thing, but I always found that finish to be a pain in the ass. Especially for a carry gun, isn’t maintaining that finish inconvenient? I figure you know lots more about this than I do, my gun knowledge is pretty casual.