Robmu1 and I will be going to our first gun show on Saturday at the PA Expo Center in Oaks. Based on the pictures of people in line, it is hugely popular. I’m not looking forward to standing in a long line with a high temperature of 16 degrees on Saturday. With Obama and his liberal minions attempting to subvert the 2nd Amendment, I’m sure the crowds will be HUUUGE. I wonder if two suburban desk jockey dudes will stand out like a sore thumb. I should find an old flannel shirt and wear a MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN hat to fit in.
My plan is to buy a Smith & Wesson revolver that Avalon can handle easily. We have a Glock 19, but I think it’s time for a 2nd weapon. Any suggestions when it comes to S&W revolvers?
Your timing is good!
Especially seeing this, Russia and the USA are inching very close to a direct confrontation, down to 20km;
https://www.rt.com/news/332109-russian-jets-isis-warlords/
Model 642 hammerless .38. Stainless, 5 shots, very compact, and a great front pocket gun for you when you’re out together. Not a target gun, but a pull it out and shoot at close range type. They make lasers for the .357, I don’t know if you can get them on the .38. Chick guns are tough, because a gun in the purse is almost useless, gets stolen with the purse.
All you can do is let Avalon pick out which S&W she is comfortable holding. Going to get a .357 that she can shoot .38 as well?
Ask about the gun show loophole when you are there.
Just remember you can get some really good deals on ammo at guns shows. If you get her a 38 get her several hundred rounds of ammo .Then practice at the local gun range.
G19 is an excellent pistol, i love mine, you started off perfectly. large enough to be a great fighting pistol but also small enough to be concealable to everyday carry.
S&W’s are excellent, i would recommend something chambered in 357mag/38special. Avalon will likely not want to shoot the 357 often but you should and the option is a good thing to have.
some people recommend small light guns for women but i don’t subscribe to that mentality, the heft of a metal framed gun often helps dull the recoil.
teh model 66 is classic all around goodness but you might want something with a shorter barrel. look at model 686’s and model 60.
and if you are set on only using 38special i would recommend the model 67.
also, if you want, let me know if you plan on going to the next one in early april because i plan on attending.
the one in april is supposed to have twice as many dealers as the one this coming weekend.
and you can usually avoid standing in line as long as you dont’ show up right when the doors open (i’ll emphasize usually).
Don’t make the mistake of buying too small a gun thinking that it is best for the ladies, particularly if you want to shoot .357 magnum. Small snub revolvers don’t have much mass to absorb recoil so shooting it could be so punishing that it deters Avalon from practice shooting.
Model 66 in a snub is hefty enough to absorb recoil and could be carried in a purse (same as model 19 if you want blued rather than stainless). Plus, it really looks badass, in a Joe Friday sort of way.
I’d suggest an M&P compact, with 9 mm or .40 caliber. As said above, compacts are not for target shooting, but for in close self defense where pin point accuracy is key. The .40 has better stopping power, but a little more recoil. Best have here shoot each. Is she can handle the bigger one, get it! Get what she is comfortable firing. Most gun ranges have rentals or even loaners.
The problem with a revolver for defense is the reload issue. Inserting a spare mag into a semiautomatic is a snap, but a speed loader takes a lot of practice.
bb,
i usually like the cut of you jib in regards to the 2nd ammendment but ammo at gun shows is waaaaayyy overpriced. at least in the northeast. i’ve been to 1/2 dozen shows at the oaks (where admin is going) and the ammo prices there almost universally suck.
admin should buy maybe 50 rounds while there for a quick range trip but otherwise order online in bulk.
https://www.natchezss.com/
http://www.ammunitionstore.com
http://www.freedommunitions.com
Get Avalon a hot pink Lady S&W so she can add insult to injury if the time comes.
Around here the gun shows last several days and I usually try to go on the second or third day. Although it’s always crowded, I’ve never seen long lines.
If you are looking for something for personal defense -particularly if CC is intended- and want a revolver the little 5 shot snubby’s are the way to go. My preference is in 38 special rated for +P loads. the short barrel and short ejector rod on longer cartridges makes rapid reloads awkward if that situation arises in difficult circumstances.
.38 is not the only caliber to consider if you are looking at recoil as a factor, there are several other valid defense calibers as well but that would be a rather long and contentious discussion.
For myself, I looked at the Smith’s but ended up deciding on a Ruger LCR as being better for me. Yo might want to look at a few of those as well if you aren’t familiar with them.
I prefer revolvers for emergency weapons for simplicity of operation, they’re almost fool proof in highly charged defense situations and you don’t have to do anything but aim and pull the trigger. “Hammerless” is essential, you don’t want a hammer spur or cocked exposed hammer snagging on something while you’re trying to get it out or use it.
Keep in mind, this is advice for a closeup and personal defense weapon, not a long range, combat, or hunting one.
The model 66 and 19 snubs are not in current production, but buying a good used model shouldn’t be too difficult particularly at a gun show.
Admin,
You could hit a local thrift store for a working man’s jacket and an appropriate ball cap, but by the looks of the photos, any kind of casual wear is OK. I have a collection of ball caps that I can choose from, depending on the occasion. I have worn out or lost several classics, like “CAT DIESEL POWER”, “REDMAN CHEWING TOBACCO”, and the elegant leaping deer “JOHN DEERE”.
Whatever weapon you purchase, I would recommend that you get some target ammo, go to a gun range and practice until you are both comfortable handling the pistol. If you haven’t done so,take a gun safety course with an accredited trainer. This will give you a certificate, which in my state is required if you apply for a concealed carry permit. You will also learn how to avoid accidentally shooting someone (including yourself), and becoming another statistic.
curtmilr,
not to start a caliber discussion but i would recommend 9mm over 40. more ammo options and with the projectile tech nowadays the gap between teh 2 in “stopping power” is not significant. plus you add the typical additional capacity of say 2 or more rounds it is essentially nil in the real world. the real key is 9mm is so dirt cheap (like so cheap i dont’ reload it bc it isn’t economical) that you can shoot and train with it a ton more for the same cost and simply become more proficient and comfortable.
plus the 40 is “hotter” (like the 357 sig) and i tend recommend people to stay away from those because they compromise component life and reliability. there’s a reason the navy seals recently announced they are adopting the glock 19.
if you want to go big, just go all the way to 45acp or go hot with 357magnum.
and remember, the best pistol is a shotgun and the best shotgun is a rifle.
As far as reloading for defense, yes a revolver is slower to reload (unless you are Jerry Miculek), and has a lower capacity than an auto. But really, unless you are planning to take on a biker gang then how much capacity do you need? Of course this is an age old argument mostly voiced by us internet warriors. I am a fan of revolvers mainly because they are works of old time craftsman ship, often with lock work similar to a fine watch.
JQ, whatever type/caliber revolver you decide to buy codiere3d how it will be carried as well . I bought my wife this under the bra holster for Xmas…works great , comfortable , but still she often doesn’t bother to carry..cuz’ just going to…and don’t expect trouble…no one ever does.
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And if you’re worried about fitting in, here is a website that sells all sorts of appropriate gun show apparel. http://shop.donaldjtrump.com/
You really don’t need to worry about fitting in to a gun show.
If you’re there you fit in.
Wish she was going with you. Some of the SW revolvers have a grip that small hands can not really hold well. My wife chose a GP100 in 357 because of the grip.
Stay with the revolver unless she is going to practice a lot. My wife wanted a gun she could pick up- turn the laser on and shoot without monthly practice.
” codiere3d”.. thanks WP, now that I codiere3d the context , that word makes a lot more sense than “consider”.
Avalon already shoots the Glock 19 more accurately than me. It fits well in her hand. We took a training course and we’ve been to the range a few times to practice. We plan on going more often.
She can’t come to the show because she’s working. Robmu1 and I will go to her restaurant after the show and make her wait on us. I might even tip her.
Ignore the talk about .40 and 9mm; stick with .38 spl in a revolver.
I have never owned a semi-auto that didn’t fail to function properly at least once, even the high-end makes.
I have never owned a revolver that failed to function properly; ever.
And you can’t shoot a semi-auto through your jacket pocket; more than the first shot anyway.
Unless you train and train and train, a hammerless revolver is the best self defense weapon, as there are no buttons, levers, safeties and such to mess with. Just point and pull the trigger; goes bang every time.
Get a good inside the waistband (IWB) holster for it for concealed carry; they work very well and are comfortable.
There. That ought to stir the shit.
admin,
if she shoots the 19 better than you and is comfortable with it i would literally just buy another 19. teh allure of a revolver isthe simplicity to a person who isnt comfortable with something like a striker-fired XD, glock, or M&P. you won’t get more reliable than a gen3 glock 19.
ranges are good, but its better to join a club where you can shoot more often, has an annual fee and doesn’t have perpetual lane/range charges. they often have “active” lanes/areas/pits where you can set up barricades, cover etc adn create a setup where you have to move thru the environment.
plus the club members likely have a higher skill level than teh typical range plinker.
once the snow clears, i’ll be at mine at least weekly.
Why trust in a gun? What you really ought to do is place your trust in Jeebus. He knows the number of hairs on your head, and even when a sparrow falls. So, surely he will protect you and Avalon.
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However, if your faith is weak — and, apparently, it is — get one of these
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why are the folks in the pictures all white-do black folks never “buy” guns legally?
As I’ve said before, the Glock 19 is damn near the perfect all-around handgun. Since she already knows it and shoots well with it, either get her another one, or give her the one you have and get something new for yourself.
Who decided that Avalon wants a revolver? That was the old standard advice for women from 30+ years ago. Unless she is too weak or unskilled mechanically to work the semiauto, the revolver is not an automatically good choice. She obviously is not too weak or unskilled given your post above.
Try not to buy similar guns from different brands – you lose any economies of scale, both in terms of gun parts (magazines, spares etc.) and skills. Having two Glocks means you can share mags and most internal parts, depending on the models. Having one Glock and one M&P (for example) means you can share NOTHING between the two guns except maybe ammo.
So get another Glock. A Glock 19 would make perfect sense, but if one of you needs something smaller and easier to carry concealed, then the Glock 26 and Glock 43 are both good options. If you don’t like those, look at the Ruger LC9s.
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Also FYI, it is RARE these days to find good deals at gunshows. Mostly bad advice and gouger prices. I hardly ever go to a gunshow, and when I do it’s to sell, not to buy. So don’t buy at the gunshow unless you are certain it’s a great deal. Figure out what you want – maybe at the show – then find it online for cheaper (Budsgunshop.com is one good option, http://cdnnsports.com/ is another) and get it transferred to you through a local dealer who does transfers for a fixed price. Or find a local bricks-n-mortar dealer that has reasonable prices.
This is what you would be limited to here. Anything with a barrel under 105mm is too dangerous for us plebs to own.
S&W 686 with 4.2″ Brl
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S&W Bodyguard .38. They come with an easy to reach laser. They are 5 shot and striker fired, so no hammer to snag inside her purse. Don’t know how your wife is with guns, but my wife weighs about 95 pounds and she can handle it no problem.
Regardless of which revolver you get, if you get a 38, federal makes a ‘low recoil’ hydrashok round specifically for smaller people shooting these types of revolvers. They are only 110 grain bullets rather than the usual 130 or so, and with less powder. It makes a noticeable difference in recoil.
If she shoots the Glock 19 well get her a Glock 43 (9MM single stack mag) light reliable and fits most ladies hands well. If a 38 go with the S&W M442 or M638 5 shot hammerless J frame (small frame) rated for 38 plus P. Stay from 357. It is unnecessary . A 357 round out of a 2 inch barrel just makes an excessive muzzle flash and blast with not a heck of a lot more velocity. If you center punch someone with 5 – 38 spl plus p’s it will do the trick. ( it did the trick on Lee Harvey Oswald) Most gunfights are over in a few seconds….
As a female I can tell you that the MOST important thing is that the gun comfortably fits in her hand. I have small hands and it is hard for me to find a handgun that I can use comfortably. So unless you’re very sure have Avalon with you when you’re looking at guns that you want her to use. I have found that when I’m looking for something specific, that calling around to local stores is much easier than finding what I’m looking for at a gun show. It would also be a good idea to call around and see if you can find a shooting range that will rent you and Avalon a variety of handguns that you can try out instead of trying to choose one based on specs or other people’s opinions.
Here in NH most of the local gun shops will have a booth at the gun show, but they bring a limited selection with them. It also seems like they bring more long guns than hand guns to the show – probably because they are harder to lose track of in the crowd. So it is likely that you won’t find what you are looking for at a gun show.
One thing you will find at a gun show is huge crowds! Given that you just got over being sick heading to a gun show at this time of year when it’s likely that the crowds will have all kinds of illnesses that can easily spread might not be a good idea.
There seem to be a lot of assumptions here by men who maybe haven’t done any shooting with women. I know a number of women who handle .45 ACP 1911s quite well, including my wife. I know more women still who may or may not use a 1911 but do just fine with service size pistols of various kinds in 9mm. Admin already wrote that Avalon shoots the Glock 19 well. They – or really she – should decide based on what is useful for specific purposes, and looking only at high quality options with a strong base of replacement parts and accessories (that means Glock, Ruger, S&W, FN, CZ, but not offbeat designs from Turkey or South America, etc.). The brands HK and Sig that you might assume are top notch are actually a mixed bag because Sig quality is erratic and HK is somewhat difficult to deal with in terms of support and parts. Stick to USA major companies or Glock and CZ, both of which are excellent. Get what is useful for Avalon, not what some random TBP person says is “what women need.”
BTW, I’ve never felt comfortable with revolvers, so I only have semi-autos. There are more security features (safety, etc) on semi-autos – especially useful if she’s going to carry it in a purse, etc. And it’s easier to reload (as long as you get some extra magazines!).
Gator,
It’s certainly not low recoil, but Buffalo Bore makes a .38 +P LSHWC load for snubby’s that is an absolutely devastating load for self defense.
Basically the old FBI snubby load on steroids.
(Never used it in a long barrel but I imagine it would be even more effective in one)
Persnickety,
You have to deal with the average woman having a smaller hand size than the average man. There are, of course, exceptions on both sides and that should be taken into individual consideration.
Can’t go wrong with a .500 magnum:
Don’t forget to get some 700 grain projectile cartridges:
Listen to ‘snickety. My wife handles a 45.ACP as well as I, but for conceal carry she chooses a small lightweight .38. How and where the gun shall be carried should ,as I said earlier be part of the decision before making a choice.
Not sure where else to put this today, sorry ….
Funny Or Die yesterday released a 50 minute spoof of Trump’s Art Of the Deal. Already has 1.8 million hits.
Overview ,….
Here’s the Funny Or Die movie —> http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad38087bac/donald-trump-art-of-the-deal-movie
Another concealed carry option is the IPB (inside panty band) barely noticeable is no exaggeration..
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if’n it’s purdy with a power punch you’re after…
STI Elektra .45acp, Heinie Straight Eight Trijicon night sites, match grade barrel
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“You have to deal with the average woman having a smaller hand size than the average man. There are, of course, exceptions on both sides and that should be taken into individual consideration.”
Yes, absolutely. Fit the gun to the person, not to the gender. There are also men with small hands, and I wouldn’t recommend a Desert Eagle for them either.
However, the pistols I recommended have average to smaller than average grip circumference. The Glock 19 isn’t that big in gen 3, and if you get a gen 4 you’ve got the changeable backstraps to make it smaller still. And it already works for Avalon based on Jim’s post above. I’m not recommending a Desert Eagle or something humongous. On the other hand, if Avalon has larger hands, something with a tiny frame will be harder for her to use than something with an average size frame.
Reloading a revolver quickly requires more skill and practice than reloading a semiauto, and generally involves a speedloader (like HKS makes) or speedstrip, which is another piece to fumble with.
Gator, the bodyguard looks to be the current model. And since it has the laser, that’s a major upgrade. Anon, I’ve read a couple of reviews of the LCR, never handled or shot one, looks to be about the same thing. Any of those little hammerless revolvers are great carry weapons, semi auto is better in the car
I always carry a weapon on me. If I’d been at the Bataclan or one of those bars, I would have opened fire. I would have perhaps died, but at least I would have taken a shot. The worst thing is the powerlessness to respond to those who want to kill you -Donal Trump
Any question on who the strong Pro-2A candidate is?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/12150241/Europe-heading-for-revolutions-and-collapse-over-immigration-warns-Donald-Trump.html
I have never owned a semi-auto that didn’t fail to function properly at least once, even the high-end makes. RDAWG
I have had flawless semi-auto with 45 / super 38 and 9mm though 3 seasons of IPSIC and several house guns. IPSIC always had a jam-clear dud during the shoot so if it ever happens it is pure muscle memory at this point.
I have never owned a revolver that failed to function properly; ever RDAWG
My first sw 686 has an M on it from a recall. While shooting it one day it failed to rotate and the trigger was locked up. The reason was a hammer striking pin that was too thin and sharp and it would pierce the whole primer rupturing and unseating the primer. At this point you have a 3 pound club. Older airweights were recalled for frame failures. Shoot an old Webly with modern ammo it will explode in your hand.
I had a S&W 645 for 20 years that never malfunctioned one single time. And trust me, i’m sort of careless about keeping guns clean. Good simple gun. The sights were off a little, but is was so consistent I never bothered to get it fixed, just automatically made the adjustment
Keep in mind that a double action is very difficult to shoot accurately, especially with a short barrel.
Echoing others, I wouldn’t rule out another glock especially since she’s familiar with them.
I chose for my daughter a sub compact 9mm cz rami….. capacity up to 14 rounds
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-2075-rami-9mm-black-alloy-14-rd-mags/
I’ve taught a lot of women to shoot and 3/4 of them prefer the first gun I show them, a 1909 .32 Police Positive (Colt).
Most important is fit- women do not have the same size hand that men do, good grip is essential. Recoil is much softer than a .38 God forbid she ever has to use it, it is far better to put six shots of .32 into a threat than fire 1 and miss the next 2, 3 or 4 rounds before regrouping from a recoil. Not so much a problem with me, but women react to the sound by closing their eyes- .32 is soft enough to not flinch when it discharges so they tend to keep eyes on the target. Again, no problem when it’s a paper target, big issue when it’s a threat.
And ammo is noticeably cheaper for .32 for some reason.
Don’t forget the importance of a good cleaning kit and doing so regularly. Just sit in front of the TV, or at the table with a glass of wine and your bore brushes so you get her completely comfortable with handling it rather than just having it languish in a drawer. Practicing regularly is important, handling it with comfort and familiarity is crucial.
Just my .2 cents.
+100 to about everything persnickety has said.
i’d jsut get another glock 19 for all the reason snickety (and myself) have said. i am partial to the gen3 because it track record over the years. the gen4’s have backstraps that can be swapped out for some customization and they have a redesigned recoil spring to lessen the recoil (i’d stick wtih a gen3 though)
there is also the reality that the 19 is ubiquitous, there are soooo many options to carry it and every holster manufacturer makes multiple versions. tons of options for night sights, magpul is even making mags for them now, they are high quality and can be had for $12-14. the only platform that might be more modular than a G19 is the AR15.
and there are deals to be found at shows, teh key is to not go there looking for what is the “hot item” at the time. ie. if there is talk about banning AR’s, don’t expect deals. when everyone was looking at overpriced Bushmasters after obama was inaugurated, i got a mossberg 500 for a steal of a deal.
i got my gen3 19 (new) at the show this past december for $490 and $10 background/transfer. i’d be hard pressed to find a better deal than a little more than $500 out the door.
the ammo will be overpriced adn the optics will mostly be junk but there are deals on actual firearms. heck i saw LCP’s (a real good 380 for pocket carry) going for $205.
admin should get himself another glock 19 and take a look at shotguns, mossberg 500 and remington 780’s to get a feel for them. once those 2 are covered get himself a quality AR15.
and if JQ wants a real nice one for hundreds less than a manufacturer will offer he should buy a quality stripped lower from a local shop and i’ll gladly help him construct a component list and walk him through the build/assembly process in an afternoon.
i’ll also echo what HSF said about a cleaning kit.
one of the best things to do wtih a new firearm is to go home and field strip it and reassemble it. that way you understand how it goes together and diagnose any issues when you go to the range.
Perfect conceal carry revolver S&W .38 spl Bodyguard. Gator is right on. Simple reliable hits hard with the right ammo.
I am a 60 ish mature lady and LOVE my Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm!
Avalon might also enjoy joining a group called The Well Armed Woman.
Great education, support, and practice time with other like-minded women!!
You go girl!!!!
Crimson trace sights put the bullet right where you want it. Ruler makes an excellent hamerless .38 revolver as well. Practice practice practice.