I wanted to thank everyone for keeping Admin busy with all the questions yesterday. Luckily, he still had time for that beer.
From one of the facebook lefties…“So…Obama founded ISIS, according to Trump. Up until now, I’ve believed this guy will say anything to get attention. Now, I truly believe this man is mentally unstable and needs a psychiatric evaluation. Really? ISIS?”
A couple different things to address in there. Assuming you would respond to that, what would you say?
It’s partially true that Obama and Clinton founded ISIS. Unfortunately, Trump’s bluntness and over the top style does not define his message clearly.
If he has stated that Bush One founded al Qaeda, that Bush Two birthed ISIS, that Obama and Clinton are founders of ISIS in Syria, Egypt and Libya, perhaps the ignorant masses could comprehend the situation.
That situation being, the United States, the Dems and the GOP are solely responsible for ISIS, the refugees and the upheaval in the Middle East.
Listen, just because you overturned their government, joked about the murder of their national leader, funded the opposition and armed them with American made weaponry flown in on our planes and distributed to their rebel units doesn’t mean you’re culpable.
Does it?
When Obama announced to the world that the U.S. was pulling out of Iraq on a specific date, that gave a stimulus to the Neanderthal lobes and then after the U.S. pull-out, ISIS came out publicly.
So yes, it was Obama.
You will not change anyone’s mind with a reply, or argument, FB is an echo chamber, all the people on there want is “likes” and the same opinions, they don’t want a discussion.
So all you can do is push buttons to piss them off even more. I got on FB for my mom who wanted to keep in touch. After joining I soon had 170 “friends” I’m down to 125 as I have been unfriended by so many…..
Did your mom forget how to use a telephone?
It’s the pictures of the grand kids, great grand kids, and a few of us.
Five kids, 11 grandkids, 16 great grand kids she loves so much.
Obama doesn’t have his name on IPO for ISIS but his administration tilled the soil and made fuckin’ sure there was lots of fertilizer and water. He is the preeminent gardener of our times but what is worse is he is the penultimate moralizer as well.
Obamma supporters need to ask themselves. Are things better or worse in Middle East. And now folks, he has his proxies in Ukraine invading Russia. DURING the fucking Olympics. Again! Doesn’t this play book get old. Media wants to talk about latest stupid thing Donald said and we could be on verge of World War. WTF!
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160811/1044161591/poroshenko-army-crimea-donbass.html
I can respond to Mike with some authority; I know some of the key players on the ground. Trump’s claim is valid although some explanation is in order. Did Obama call up the CIA and say, “Hey, create an insane Islamic extremist army and call it ISIS!” Well, no. But he created it just the same. ISIS is a result of two things. One, our foolish decision to invade Iraq and then our equally foolish decision to withdraw and leave it in the hands of a Shia dictatorship. This led the mainly Sunni former soldiers of Sadaam Hussein to decide to fight back to reclaim their former position of power in the country. Two, the main foreign policy goal of Israel is to topple the Assad regime in Syria, which is friendly to Shia Iran and which is itself a coalition of Shia, Alawhite, Christian and secular Sunni elements. Iran (and Russia, its ally) are determined to prevent Sunni regimes from being imposed on Iraq and Syria for strategic reasons. The Sunni Saudis and the Gulf States (especially Qatar) are fanatically Sunni and, in a very real way, allies of Israel. Iran wants to topple the Saudi monarchy and the Gulf State regimes as well. The U.S., under Obama and Clinton, provoked a Sunni rebellion against the Assad regime in Syria as part of her insane “Arab Spring” plan. This whole idea was cooked up by the Israelis. They want to destroy all nationalist, secular Arab regimes as these are seen as a long-term threat to Israel. They wanted to have chaos and ignorant, extremist religious governments in the Arab states. For all their threats against the Jews they represent a negligible military threat to Israel, unlike secular Syria or secular Iraq. The U.S., under the orders of Obama and Clinton, helped organize the revolt against Assad and armed the supposedly “moderate” Sunni rebels with weapons, money, etc. Qatar and Saudi Arabia also supported them. Of course, there are no such “moderates”. Sunni extremists and former Iraqi soldiers received all of this support and from there was born ISIS. The real secret of Benghazi? The CIA annex there had one mission: Collect the weapons from Muammar Ghadafi’s arsenals and ship them on to the rebels in Syria using clandestine maritime shipments through Turkey. This is why ISIS made such rapid gains. They were armed to the teeth by the U.S. Want to know why Obama and his henchmen continue to stubbornly refer to ISIS as ISIL? Because they want to confuse things. ISIL is the Islamic State in the Levant (Lebanon and Syria). ISIS is the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Get it? They want the Iraq piece of this hidden, if possible, as it points out the incredible incompetence of Obama and Clinton in withdrawing U.S. troops too soon.
The Turkish angle of this is that Erdogan is a Sunni fanatic who hates Assad and imagines he will rebuild the Ottoman Empire. He needs to get rid of Assad and stomp on the Kurds in Iraq, which is why the Kurds are the main fighters on the ground against ISIS (they really are moderate Sunni’s and pro-U.S. and Israel). Erdogan is, of course, a kook, and a dangerous one at that.
Now, Mike, do you get it? Let me assure you Trump knows all of this and, though his delivery is clumsy, it is certainly not inaccurate, much less crazy. We created the ISIS monster with Obama and Clinton’s feckless, ignorant, incompetent moves.
That is why you will vote for Trump, as will every other decent American.
I dont disagree that Israel wants to topple secular regimes in the region. All the evidence seems to point to this. But why? Why wouldnt they prefer to have secular governments surrounding them rather than Sunni?
No! All of the major military threats to Israel have come from secular, nationalist Arab regimes. For all the hoo-hah about the crazy Islamic extremists, they have never constituted a serious military threat to Israel. On the contrary, it is highly likely that the Israelis either created or infiltrated many of these extremists movements and have been partially directing their operations. This where the Israeli-9/11 connection may well come in. The Israelis are happy to have ignorant religious kooks running Arab countries. They know they will never get their shit togethe enough to attack Israel.
Great analysis Southern! The truth about reality needs to revealed VERY slowly to the masses lest they go berserk. I stand in amazement as Trump jabs and feints with the truth as the establishment and MSM fall over each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_gas_field
The Israelis may have cut a deal with the Saudis. Israel carries water for the Saudi regional political goals, and gets pipeline access in return.
Southern Sage–An important comment, stated well. Of course, Israel is vastly interested in it’s neighbors. Same as you if your next door neighbor started acting bizarrely making ominous threats thru a megaphone at your bedroom window. But…creating a unstabilized neighbor is self defeating in the long run, I think. Israel’s only real hope is peace, not war.
I have come to the conclusion that the real reason for the problems in Syria is the US intervention in that country to prevent the Gazprom pipeline from the oil fields of Iran thru Syria to Europe from being built and the desire of the US to eject Russia from the warm water ports in the Mediterranean, one of which is in Syria.
It is evident that the US did in fact supply arms to rebels in Syria in the hopes of overthrowing Assad’s regime and installing a more US friendly counterpart. But…to quote Robert Burns, “The best laid schemes o’ mice an’ men/ Gang aft agley”. (The best laid schemes of mice and men/ Often go awry.) Yes, the hope of the Neocons was that the end result would be to finish off Assad.
Well, low and behold, the rebel’s rebellion took on a life of it’s own and evolved into ISIS. Didn’t see that coming! What’d Obama think would happen when you strike a match in a gasoline refinery? You think that just because we gave them armaments and money that they would love us? Middle Eastern hatreds go back centuries. It’s a people that never forgets even when revenge is satisfied.
Ya! Obama’s and the Neocon’s fingerprints are all over this crime scene.
ISIS brew out of that Arab Spring thing we (Obama) so wholeheartedly supported and aided (and probably directed to some degree).
There’s real reason to suspect we both overtly and covertly armed them in the beginning (what Benghazi was about).
So IMO yes, I’d say that Obama would legitimately be considered a “founder” of it.
sheeple are funny
ISIS – ISraelis In Syria
ISIL – ISraelis In Libya
In the same way as
CIA – Cocaine Import Agency
Words have meaning – even in the PTB twisted world
ISIS is a CIA/Mossad creation and it’s been very successful
and most amerikans will never grow up
There was a Frontline episode in May that even laid blame for not killing the founder of ISIS when he had a clean chance and the CIA telling him this may be his best and only chance! And this from the supposedly ultra-liberal PBS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVai5RhSpaE
If you had to lay the blame for ISIS onto one single person, it would have to be GWB, since he was Commander in Chief during the events that directly led to the creation of ISIS. But GWB left office in 2009, so the blame must fall on the next Commander in Chief, who did absolutely nothing to prevent the further growth of the embryonic ISIS. The irony is that he, being a lefty, should have understood the need to abort this lovechild of the neocons.
The events that led directly to the creation of ISIS were those of the “Arab Spring”.
And that took place under Obama and largely as a result of his policies of encouraging and aiding it.
Which he still does.
Believe it or not, everything wrong with the world is not Bush’s fault.
Founded? Naw.
Trained, supported, armed? Yeah!
I responded to the nitwit with a combination of the first 2, very well thought out comments. Nice to come to a place where the commenters are smarter than I.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Mike! I accept your complement. Not bad for a fella with a fourth grade edjucation. I would have went to the fifth grade, but I didn’t want to pass my dad!
I have a neighbor that was born in Turkey and came to the U.S some 15 -20 years ago. He told me he knows from news sources and contacts he has back in Turkey that there were shipments of military equipment, arms that were traveling south thru Turkey that were stopped by Turkish officials but that were allowed to continue into eastern Syria after the CIA got involved. He was confused by that because he was under the same impression as are most Americans that the U.S. was fighting ISIS. He didn’t know the U.S. was supporting them. I told him that those arms almost certainly were the rumored arms shipment that came from Libya.
There is no such thing as a secular Mohammedan country. There are terrorist Mohammedan countries who openly want to kill you and there are moderate Mohammedan countries who agree that terrorist Mohammedan countries should kill you.
You might be onto something Sage.
We can mince words and parse and nit pick….
yet we know the US invoked, collaborated, funded, and armed
mercs, and “rebels” here, there, and everywhere in the MENA.
We know it is about poppies, pipelines, and proxy wars.
Donald Trump speaks New York blunt/colloquial/trash talk.
So what? We hope (that dumb-ass word again) that he will not
continue the PTB collusion and the endless murder of civilians
via droning ISIS “targets”. Israel? They are in
it for the gold. Just threw that in for the smarties. Cat stepped on the enter.
One thing I do know is that BH Obozo has the sadiM Touch (everything he touches turns to crap).
There’s no point in talking to the brain damaged lefties. Even if you had slam dunk video evidence and a fucking confession they would argue the same talking points. Don’t believe me? Try to straighten out Stangerthanfiction/Doug Pecker/Zygon.
These people will be swept away in the coming melee.
Actually, from what I understand the main reason for the chaos in Syria, was for a gas pipeline to bypass Gazprom, which is what the US really wanted. If Russia would lose its gas business in Europe, it would be severely crippled.
Of course, other countries benefited from Syria falling apart. For example, Israeal and Turkey could both grab territory for themselves. And Iran could gain influence as well with Assad out of the way.
With only five minutes of digging, you can discover where ISIS got those spankin’ new white Toyota HiLux trucks you see in all those videos…..our State dept!
PLUS have any of you seen the story about the $6.5 TRILLION (yes that’s Trillion with a “T”) the Pentagon can’t account for? Check the link if you think I’m foolin’:
http://www.activistpost.com/2016/08/audit-reveals-pentagon-doesnt-know-where-trillions-went.html
Hmmm…. lemmesee. I’d respond:
“Got Damn, boy. I’ve seen people who don’t know anything, but you don’t even SUSPECT anything. If your brain was transplanted into a hummingbird, he’d fly backwards and suck a mule’s ass for a morning glory.”
Yeah. That’s what I’d say.