And thats the thing aint it? Those bakers werent preventing them from eating cake. They just didnt want to make it.
I would have just made them a bland cake. Of course i dont give a fuck about who marries whom. Not my business. Less i know, the better.
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
December 13, 2017 8:29 am
The attack on Christianity seems to have started after the coronation of the current Pope.
It also has to involve a lot of money (what’s new?).
No proof of anything, just my opinion, and opinions are…
It’s been going on for much longer than that, the current Pope just being the latest big development in it.
MrLiberty
December 13, 2017 9:56 am
IT ISN’T ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!!!
It is about the PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS OF ALL BUSINESSES. Those rights were DESTROYED by the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and BOTH worthless major parties continue to support this destructive law.
What needed to be corrected were the GOVERNMENT edicts regarding segregation (and there were hundreds of thousands on the books), NOT the rights of private property owners (which were also being violated by segregationist mandates in most of the laws on the books).
Yep. Too bad it’s impossible to find two people who would even let you get through those 3-4 sentences without cutting you off going ape shit crazy or burn down a city.
But it about that civil rights act being used to override the first amendment of the Constitution that guarantees the right to live according to ones practice of religion.
It makes simple legislation a way to amend the Constitution and avoid the need for a Constitutional amendment that is the specified and required way to do it.
The Civil Rights Act is really not at issue in the cake shop case. The issue before the court is:
“Whether applying Colorado’s public accommodations law to compel Phillips to create expression that violates his sincerely held religious beliefs about marriage violates
the Free Speech or Free Exercise Clauses of the First Amendment.”
Spot on Mr. Liberty…..and what has the above mention law and its application by above mention major parties brought to America……. nothing but a class dependent on the government for all its daily needs. Hard proof is the show 48 Hours on cable…..it will rip your heart out and hand it to you.
“the show 48 Hours….”
This would be the shortest show in TV history if every suspect would just lawyer-up.
Cop: “you have the right to remain silent….”
Suspect: “I want a lawyer”
Narrator: “that’s all folks, see you next week”
All due ‘spec’d…arguing where the corner was, when that corner was turned, is variation on how many angels – or cudgels – can simultaneously dance the head of a pin – or pinheads.
The specs are the specs. The specs are drawn. Human life is an uninterrupted series of quarterings. The margarine (tho it’s called butter, by the par for the course [muri]ka•yackers, “parkays”), the fattest part of the marginal middle, is continuously drawn, served, drawing, serving.
Imitation crabs in an all too real pot, pulling each other down from any possible escape, like the drowning – in envy, malice, venality, authoritarian – bags of waterbugs they are.
Decades ago I got sick on Red Lobster foo(l)d. Twice. No 3rd helpings for me. Eventually i made it to ‘fool me once…’.
Maggie
December 13, 2017 10:31 am
This case before the Supreme Court is of PROFOUND impact on Interstate Commerce “doctrine” for anyone with a business in this country, in my opinion. If SCOTUS determines that it is within the Government’s authority over your rights, in the interest of maintaining “fairness” and “tolerance”*, to force you to PERFORM a service for a customer you do not want to serve, and the “State” can fine you if you REFUSE to sell your labor to that “undesirable customer”, we truly are become slaves.
The concept of labor as money evolves from many Histotheorists (can I INVENT another new term here? Why YES I can. Histotheorist is my TBP lexicon entry for someone who knows JUST enough about a certain period of history to create a theory about how they would have done it better. But, they don’t know enough about the other dominoes that eventually come into play had they done it better. So, Locke, Hobbs, Descartes, others, whose thinking about grand political theory on a continental scale fed our Founding Fathers’ overview of the world. I have read a bit of Jefferson, Washington, Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers and a few writings of Henry Adams, the grandson and great-grandson of presidents. A quote of his flies into my mind: “I grew up thinking it was natural to have Grandfather Presidents and Great-Grandfather Presidents. I assumed all the children had them.” This is, of course, what Gatsby means when he says “Rich people ain’t like you and me. They’re different” or something very close… Henry Adams grew up in a very genteel upper-class socially and politically, but chose a career in Academia and Literary pursuits with some limited success as a poet and scholar. His “tone” when discussing political issues gives insight into the John and Abigail Adams story which, for some reason, I remember.
When humans come into contact with one another in the natural world, they examine and study the new people through one way or another. Once there is interaction, other exchanges occur and something recognized as “wealth” in the form of beads, coins or feathers for some tribes in South America (Parrots were like Tulips in the Dark Ages, I think.) Money is whatever is a natural substitute for barter or trade in your culture. Since you should “own” the labor produced by your own body and mind, it should be your decision whether that labor is committed to bake a cake, unless it is a “compensatory cake.” That is sarcastic, but what I mean is that if you OWE someone a cake and they happen to want to use that debt on your part to give their gay friend a cake for their wedding, you should pay your own debt, however you may not like doing so. Compensatory.
Other than that situation, when you own the labor and investment that created a product (cake) and you based your business model (conservative, traditional and moral values for honest, earned profit) on a set of principles, one of which prevents you from performing your service (baking, decorating and delivering, perhaps serving the cake) for a gay couple, then you should be able to decide whom might HIRE your services without fear of reprisal from state agencies, since you are a “law-abiding taxpaying small businessman” doing what you want to do and minding your own business. You don’t have a sign that says “No Gays Allowed” you just can’t bake a cake for that service in you own good conscience.
So. If our Supreme Law of the Land voices the opinion that anyone in any business that “sells” to the public in a way that a business “sells” its inventory to money-paying customers will be obligated to sell to any person who asks to purchase that good or SERVICE (farmers, pay attention Bill and Sarah), regardless of Gender persuasion or identity.) That is Indentured Servitude.
*neither fairness nor tolerance exist, by the way. We are taught from early childhood that “life isn’t fair.” Who doesn’t get that? And don’t even start me on Tolerance. What a crap word. Tolerance means putting up with something you sense is not quite right, like a bad smell, by the way. So, some INTOLERANCE is good. We should be intolerant of cruelty. We are taught from early childhood that “life isn’t fair.” Who doesn’t get that? And don’t even start me on Tolerance. What a crap word. Tolerance means putting up with something you know isn’t quite RIGHT, but exhibiting patience before acting on instinctive impulse. OR something along that line. But, what tolerance has come to MEAN in our society is that anything that is associated with Christianity, Traditional Family Values, Marriage and Family oriented entertainment, Social Mores or anything resistant to the lewd, sexualization of our entertainment and infotainment industries and our children is considered INTOLERANT. Therefore, free speech and all that.
Edited and moved: I had put this above and I know sometimes my notes to myself in these comments is ANNOYING but it is human nature to start being complacent and LAZY when given a NEW TOOL like a edit button. When I was a tech writer/editor, I developed a habit of writing short phrases or notes at the END of a document for easy “find” that would remind me of something I wanted to discuss in depth later. So, this paragraph below, which was about midway through perhaps (the end got added to), eventually will expand to something else, unless I run out of Editing time.
It is the paradox of hindsight. (has its own paragraph, if time)
Histotheorists never seem to realize the flaws in their own thinking. Histotheorist tm (more and more I see TM superscripted over phrases… what is that?) I am trademarking it to TBP right here right now. TMWNN will ensure Admin gets a BAJILLIONTH of a tbpcoin every time that word is USED on a Social Media Platform. A new word with a new meaning, that’s the ticket. I trademark and claim “Histotheorist” for TBP ownership rights 12/13/2017 at 929 my time.) But you see how silly it has all become?
I probably should work on this more, but it is Christmas in the Ozarks, even it it isn’t Christmas EVERYWHERE.
When I was on editing staff for a government contracting agency (producing training courseware and CBT lessons for aircrew training in AWACS Mission Crew Positions. I remember that LL3CoM had the Flight Crew Training and it was weird, because some of the stuff overlapped. And, we had to USE their formatting but NONE of their training, because that was Proprietary. Training for US military members developed for training aircrew members in various aircrew positions (communications systems, computer systems, weapons systems, surveillance systems, radar and detection systems and “other” onboard personnel who might or might not require training from another federal authority, but whose presence on board required a “procedure and guide.”
That AWACS training contract (and all of its associated subcontractors and the myriad community business tidbits) was a real boon for the local industry in the Greater Oklahoma City area. I don’t know if the current move to increase business at Tinker is a result of other base drawdowns or if additional business came in with the stationing of some interesting Navy platforms at what was once an Alert field used for NORAD alert teams during the Cold War.
EC? Do you know why the E-6 ended up at Tinker?
Anonymous
December 13, 2017 10:51 am
Bakers that don’t want to make homo wedding cakes should just have a set number of published styles to choose from and not make anything custom or deviate from those styles.
Someone comes in and wants a wedding cake, just hand them the book with pictures of what they make and tell them to choose which one the way grocery store chains with bakeries do with, say, a birthday cake.
I doubt the Courts would be willing to force a business to start making or carrying a new product, if they did it would have a serious impact on all other businesses with their customers being able to force them to carry anything they were looking for.
TJF
December 13, 2017 11:23 am
Sadly, my wife is unable to see the truth of this case. She thinks it is wrong to discriminate and so she thinks, no, feels, that the baker should be compelled to bake a cake that he doesn’t want to. I’ve tried to change her mind about this case since it was news way back when, but have been unsuccessful. She somehow thinks that if you are on the side of the baker, then you must be homophobic. It is frustrating.
The Civil Rights Act will never be repealed and will remain in place until there is no USA, but what terrible law in terms of property rights.
People who think it’s wrong to discriminate usually discriminate themselves without knowing they are doing it.
When I was still in my 20’s I had a rather rich girlfriend for a while, ex highly successful doctors wife with lots of alimony and most of what he used to own, that was all the rage for an end to prejudice and discrimination. She never locked the doors in her car until she drove through a Black part of town where she would stop and lock them before going through it.
She never recognized this as discrimination even when it was pointed out to here.
“The union preceded the states.” Resistance is futile ~ the borg. Union jacked. “Your” business is a “public accommodation” – that the mystical union allows you to rent, as they siphon off rents…youse – at best – a sharecropper, iow.
Bow down, state warship worshipers, gov apologists, this is “your” country sing-sing’rs ♪… same as it ever was ♫…whatever implanted “histories” or other memories are mind’s eyeing “your” mind.
A court unapologist’s response to the Cortlandt housing project impress(shanghaiing)ment – duck, you suckers – criminal charges. Better than high noon, or Alvin York.
Satan’s the straight line. Or would be, if there were such a creature. Since there isn’t, straight lines had to be invented. & imposed. & stropped, like razors.
“so tired of the straight line, & everywhere you turn, there’s vultures & thieves at your back…”
Grog
December 13, 2017 1:13 pm
“Before you finalize you order, please try our complimentary sample cake.”
[img[/img]
Mesomorph
December 13, 2017 2:24 pm
I’m still waiting for Project Veritas or someone to send a gay couple to a Muslim bakery and see how that works out.
I guess if I were the baker or what ever business that was put out of business by a radical turd(s) from one of the alphabet groups I’d be inclined to take revenge. Perhaps if this happened a little more often folks would be a little more polite . I doubt they’d make demands on a mafia protected bakery?
And thats the thing aint it? Those bakers werent preventing them from eating cake. They just didnt want to make it.
I would have just made them a bland cake. Of course i dont give a fuck about who marries whom. Not my business. Less i know, the better.
The attack on Christianity seems to have started after the coronation of the current Pope.
It also has to involve a lot of money (what’s new?).
No proof of anything, just my opinion, and opinions are…
No more Dago popes!
It’s been going on for much longer than that, the current Pope just being the latest big development in it.
IT ISN’T ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!!!
It is about the PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS OF ALL BUSINESSES. Those rights were DESTROYED by the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and BOTH worthless major parties continue to support this destructive law.
What needed to be corrected were the GOVERNMENT edicts regarding segregation (and there were hundreds of thousands on the books), NOT the rights of private property owners (which were also being violated by segregationist mandates in most of the laws on the books).
Yep. Too bad it’s impossible to find two people who would even let you get through those 3-4 sentences without cutting you off going ape shit crazy or burn down a city.
But it about that civil rights act being used to override the first amendment of the Constitution that guarantees the right to live according to ones practice of religion.
It makes simple legislation a way to amend the Constitution and avoid the need for a Constitutional amendment that is the specified and required way to do it.
Congress’s constitutional authority for Title II (public accommodations) of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was in the Interstate Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, US Constitution). There was no need for an amendment.
“All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation….”
(42 U.S. Code § 2000a)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/2000a
https://www.americanbar.org/publications/insights_on_law_andsociety/14/winter-2014/civil-rights-act-of-1964–enduring-and-revolutionary.html
The Civil Rights Act is really not at issue in the cake shop case. The issue before the court is:
“Whether applying Colorado’s public accommodations law to compel Phillips to create expression that violates his sincerely held religious beliefs about marriage violates
the Free Speech or Free Exercise Clauses of the First Amendment.”
Spot on Mr. Liberty…..and what has the above mention law and its application by above mention major parties brought to America……. nothing but a class dependent on the government for all its daily needs. Hard proof is the show 48 Hours on cable…..it will rip your heart out and hand it to you.
“the show 48 Hours….”
This would be the shortest show in TV history if every suspect would just lawyer-up.
Cop: “you have the right to remain silent….”
Suspect: “I want a lawyer”
Narrator: “that’s all folks, see you next week”
All due ‘spec’d…arguing where the corner was, when that corner was turned, is variation on how many angels – or cudgels – can simultaneously dance the head of a pin – or pinheads.
The specs are the specs. The specs are drawn. Human life is an uninterrupted series of quarterings. The margarine (tho it’s called butter, by the par for the course [muri]ka•yackers, “parkays”), the fattest part of the marginal middle, is continuously drawn, served, drawing, serving.
Imitation crabs in an all too real pot, pulling each other down from any possible escape, like the drowning – in envy, malice, venality, authoritarian – bags of waterbugs they are.
Decades ago I got sick on Red Lobster foo(l)d. Twice. No 3rd helpings for me. Eventually i made it to ‘fool me once…’.
This case before the Supreme Court is of PROFOUND impact on Interstate Commerce “doctrine” for anyone with a business in this country, in my opinion. If SCOTUS determines that it is within the Government’s authority over your rights, in the interest of maintaining “fairness” and “tolerance”*, to force you to PERFORM a service for a customer you do not want to serve, and the “State” can fine you if you REFUSE to sell your labor to that “undesirable customer”, we truly are become slaves.
The concept of labor as money evolves from many Histotheorists (can I INVENT another new term here? Why YES I can. Histotheorist is my TBP lexicon entry for someone who knows JUST enough about a certain period of history to create a theory about how they would have done it better. But, they don’t know enough about the other dominoes that eventually come into play had they done it better. So, Locke, Hobbs, Descartes, others, whose thinking about grand political theory on a continental scale fed our Founding Fathers’ overview of the world. I have read a bit of Jefferson, Washington, Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers and a few writings of Henry Adams, the grandson and great-grandson of presidents. A quote of his flies into my mind: “I grew up thinking it was natural to have Grandfather Presidents and Great-Grandfather Presidents. I assumed all the children had them.” This is, of course, what Gatsby means when he says “Rich people ain’t like you and me. They’re different” or something very close… Henry Adams grew up in a very genteel upper-class socially and politically, but chose a career in Academia and Literary pursuits with some limited success as a poet and scholar. His “tone” when discussing political issues gives insight into the John and Abigail Adams story which, for some reason, I remember.
When humans come into contact with one another in the natural world, they examine and study the new people through one way or another. Once there is interaction, other exchanges occur and something recognized as “wealth” in the form of beads, coins or feathers for some tribes in South America (Parrots were like Tulips in the Dark Ages, I think.) Money is whatever is a natural substitute for barter or trade in your culture. Since you should “own” the labor produced by your own body and mind, it should be your decision whether that labor is committed to bake a cake, unless it is a “compensatory cake.” That is sarcastic, but what I mean is that if you OWE someone a cake and they happen to want to use that debt on your part to give their gay friend a cake for their wedding, you should pay your own debt, however you may not like doing so. Compensatory.
Other than that situation, when you own the labor and investment that created a product (cake) and you based your business model (conservative, traditional and moral values for honest, earned profit) on a set of principles, one of which prevents you from performing your service (baking, decorating and delivering, perhaps serving the cake) for a gay couple, then you should be able to decide whom might HIRE your services without fear of reprisal from state agencies, since you are a “law-abiding taxpaying small businessman” doing what you want to do and minding your own business. You don’t have a sign that says “No Gays Allowed” you just can’t bake a cake for that service in you own good conscience.
So. If our Supreme Law of the Land voices the opinion that anyone in any business that “sells” to the public in a way that a business “sells” its inventory to money-paying customers will be obligated to sell to any person who asks to purchase that good or SERVICE (farmers, pay attention Bill and Sarah), regardless of Gender persuasion or identity.) That is Indentured Servitude.
*neither fairness nor tolerance exist, by the way. We are taught from early childhood that “life isn’t fair.” Who doesn’t get that? And don’t even start me on Tolerance. What a crap word. Tolerance means putting up with something you sense is not quite right, like a bad smell, by the way. So, some INTOLERANCE is good. We should be intolerant of cruelty. We are taught from early childhood that “life isn’t fair.” Who doesn’t get that? And don’t even start me on Tolerance. What a crap word. Tolerance means putting up with something you know isn’t quite RIGHT, but exhibiting patience before acting on instinctive impulse. OR something along that line. But, what tolerance has come to MEAN in our society is that anything that is associated with Christianity, Traditional Family Values, Marriage and Family oriented entertainment, Social Mores or anything resistant to the lewd, sexualization of our entertainment and infotainment industries and our children is considered INTOLERANT. Therefore, free speech and all that.
Edited and moved: I had put this above and I know sometimes my notes to myself in these comments is ANNOYING but it is human nature to start being complacent and LAZY when given a NEW TOOL like a edit button. When I was a tech writer/editor, I developed a habit of writing short phrases or notes at the END of a document for easy “find” that would remind me of something I wanted to discuss in depth later. So, this paragraph below, which was about midway through perhaps (the end got added to), eventually will expand to something else, unless I run out of Editing time.
It is the paradox of hindsight. (has its own paragraph, if time)
Histotheorists never seem to realize the flaws in their own thinking. Histotheorist tm (more and more I see TM superscripted over phrases… what is that?) I am trademarking it to TBP right here right now. TMWNN will ensure Admin gets a BAJILLIONTH of a tbpcoin every time that word is USED on a Social Media Platform. A new word with a new meaning, that’s the ticket. I trademark and claim “Histotheorist” for TBP ownership rights 12/13/2017 at 929 my time.) But you see how silly it has all become?
I probably should work on this more, but it is Christmas in the Ozarks, even it it isn’t Christmas EVERYWHERE.
Or hysterotheorists.
Life is fare. One fare after another. And the cartelized ferrier fare at the expiry is often steeper than 6’, hotter than 1800°.
Pray or prey, what praecox is that?
For want of a nail, the analogy is lost.
Some are precocious praecox. Some bloom later. Some are predated rosebuds, gathered while ye•omen bray.
Or Pray.
Female mantis style.
Live by the triangular head – father, son, holy checks & balances, etc – then gender reversal & die by the cannibalizing triangular head.
Three card monte Christos.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But not as often as might be assumed.
For want of a hoarse, a voice accosts.
When I was on editing staff for a government contracting agency (producing training courseware and CBT lessons for aircrew training in AWACS Mission Crew Positions. I remember that LL3CoM had the Flight Crew Training and it was weird, because some of the stuff overlapped. And, we had to USE their formatting but NONE of their training, because that was Proprietary. Training for US military members developed for training aircrew members in various aircrew positions (communications systems, computer systems, weapons systems, surveillance systems, radar and detection systems and “other” onboard personnel who might or might not require training from another federal authority, but whose presence on board required a “procedure and guide.”
That AWACS training contract (and all of its associated subcontractors and the myriad community business tidbits) was a real boon for the local industry in the Greater Oklahoma City area. I don’t know if the current move to increase business at Tinker is a result of other base drawdowns or if additional business came in with the stationing of some interesting Navy platforms at what was once an Alert field used for NORAD alert teams during the Cold War.
EC? Do you know why the E-6 ended up at Tinker?
Bakers that don’t want to make homo wedding cakes should just have a set number of published styles to choose from and not make anything custom or deviate from those styles.
Someone comes in and wants a wedding cake, just hand them the book with pictures of what they make and tell them to choose which one the way grocery store chains with bakeries do with, say, a birthday cake.
I doubt the Courts would be willing to force a business to start making or carrying a new product, if they did it would have a serious impact on all other businesses with their customers being able to force them to carry anything they were looking for.
Sadly, my wife is unable to see the truth of this case. She thinks it is wrong to discriminate and so she thinks, no, feels, that the baker should be compelled to bake a cake that he doesn’t want to. I’ve tried to change her mind about this case since it was news way back when, but have been unsuccessful. She somehow thinks that if you are on the side of the baker, then you must be homophobic. It is frustrating.
The Civil Rights Act will never be repealed and will remain in place until there is no USA, but what terrible law in terms of property rights.
How does she feel about a “stars and bars” cake?
Our household is very pro-cake and feels that when it comes to cake, diversity is our strength.
People who think it’s wrong to discriminate usually discriminate themselves without knowing they are doing it.
When I was still in my 20’s I had a rather rich girlfriend for a while, ex highly successful doctors wife with lots of alimony and most of what he used to own, that was all the rage for an end to prejudice and discrimination. She never locked the doors in her car until she drove through a Black part of town where she would stop and lock them before going through it.
She never recognized this as discrimination even when it was pointed out to here.
If the law says bake that cake, bake it.
Have a very special recipe just for them.
And definitely don’t forget to add in the chocolate:
[img]http://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/BedBathandBeyond/49945715799846p?$478$[/img]
“The union preceded the states.” Resistance is futile ~ the borg. Union jacked. “Your” business is a “public accommodation” – that the mystical union allows you to rent, as they siphon off rents…youse – at best – a sharecropper, iow.
Bow down, state warship worshipers, gov apologists, this is “your” country sing-sing’rs ♪… same as it ever was ♫…whatever implanted “histories” or other memories are mind’s eyeing “your” mind.
A court unapologist’s response to the Cortlandt housing project impress(shanghaiing)ment – duck, you suckers – criminal charges. Better than high noon, or Alvin York.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw5YACKiPAk
“Did you ever think when you start plowin’ yer furrows crooked, it’s mighty hard to get ’em straight again? “
I think “industrial” farming – as subsidized as gay cake eaters – is crooked. Straight furrows, straight men, straitjackets, & all.
Walter Brennan as “Pastor Pile”
Satan’s the straight line. Or would be, if there were such a creature. Since there isn’t, straight lines had to be invented. & imposed. & stropped, like razors.
“so tired of the straight line, & everywhere you turn, there’s vultures & thieves at your back…”
“Before you finalize you order, please try our complimentary sample cake.”
[img
[/img]
I’m still waiting for Project Veritas or someone to send a gay couple to a Muslim bakery and see how that works out.
Meso, that’s been done.
via me.me
I guess if I were the baker or what ever business that was put out of business by a radical turd(s) from one of the alphabet groups I’d be inclined to take revenge. Perhaps if this happened a little more often folks would be a little more polite . I doubt they’d make demands on a mafia protected bakery?