More on Evolution: From the Mail Room

Guest Post by Fred Reed

Recently I wrote a column about the theory of Intelligent Design, which holds that that life, both in its origins and its changes over time, are the result of design instead of chance. Several hundred comments and emails arrived, more than I could read. This was not surprising as there seems to be considerable public interest in the question, while a virulent political correctness prevents discussion in most forums. In particular the major media prevent mention of Intelligent Design except in derogatory terms.

Interesting to me at any rate was that the tone of response was much more civil and thoughtful than it was say, a decade ago.

A fair few respondents quoted the Bible.  I wondered why the Bible and not the Koran or Bhagavad Gita. The Bible seems to me the chaotic literature of a barbaric tribe and characterized by morally unpleasant stories. Why it is thought to have any relevance to abiogenesis is not clear to me.

Some readers, quoting Carl Sagan, said approximately, “Fred, an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence to support it.” I don’t disagree. The claim that ocean water will in time produce Manhattan seems to me sufficiently extraordinary to require extraordinary evidence. So far, there is none. Evolutionists have not shown that sea water can produce any life at all, much less the New York Philharmonic.

Other readers insist that Intelligent Design is not scientific. If not, so what? The question should be not whether it is scientific but whether it is true. What an ideological group calling themselves scientists believe is not a valid test of truth. When I was in the eighth grade, I watched Crusader Rabbit on television. This is not science, yet it is true.

If science deals with the reproducible, then paleontology is not science, as neither is the chance creation of life, which has not proved reproducible. If science must make predictions, then physiology is not science, being entirely descriptive. If science is the study of the quantifiable, then evolution isn’t. What is the unit of selective pressure?

Much of evolutionary theory assumes what is to be proved. Many readers did just this.

Consider the spontaneous generation of life from seawater. Do we know of what the primeval seas consisted? Know, as distinct from think, suspect, theorize, wish, or desperately hope.

No, we do not. Remember that chemical reactions, assuredly including organic and biochemical, depend crucially of such things as a pH, temperature, concentrations, radiation, half-lives of intermediate, and presence or absence of other compounds that may or may not inhibit desired reactions.

If we do not know what seas existed, do we at least know what sorts of sea would be necessary for the spontaneous appearance? Again, know. We do not. The question is made more difficult since we do not know just what it is that we think evolved.  The event has not been reproduced in the laboratory or even convincingly demonstrated on paper.

You see: Life evolved because the necessary conditions existed. We know the necessary conditions  existed, because life evolved. Uh….

Readers asked, “If life was designed, who designed the Designer?”

Consider the following three questions: “Who designed the Designer?” From a five-year-old, “But Mommy, where did God come from?” From a freshman in a dorm room, “What came before the Big Bang?”

These questions are equivalent. Designer, God, or Bang, the human mind cannot handle questions of ultimate origins. No matter to what we attribute life or the universe, the question  of what came before will remain unanswered. This is as true of evolutionism as it is of Intelligent Design. The solution sometimes offered, that the universe is eternal and has neither beginning nor end, can equally be applied to Designer, Yahweh, or Shiva.

A problem afflicting evolutionism all through the living world, which I am not sure I  conveyed clearly, is that of multiple simultaneous mutations, sometimes called irreducible complexity. These refer to complicated systems which cannot work at all unless all parts appear simultaneously. When the individual parts have no value, which is usually the case, there is no reason for them to stay in the gene pool.

Consider the horn of the rhinoceros. At the forlorn level of National Geographic or NPR, there is nothing mysterious here. The horn obviously evolved so that the rhino could defend itself against lions. (“So that” raises questions of purpose, which run through evolutionism, but we will here let it drop.) All right, that makes sense. Except that it doesn’t.

The Wikipedia will tell you that the horn is not of bone, but of keratin, and thus evolved from hair. Well, who could doubt it–but just how did this happen? Did a mutation occur that caused hair to clump together into a hard substance? Would one mutation do this? Why laterally centered on the forehead instead of, say, on a hind leg? After the hair-stick’’em-together mutation did another occur to make the hard patch a cleanly limited ovoid? Next, was there a grow-really-fast mutation to make the hard patch get longer, or long at all, accompanied by a grow-faster-in-middle mutation to make it pointed–at which time finally, it would be ready for poking lions. So what kept it in the gene pool all that time when it had as yet no function.kl?(Actually the horn is more complex, and therefore even less likely.)

To judge by my mail, I suspect that many people, thanks to popular television, think of mutations as major changes that just happen, such perhaps as the rhino’s horn appearing all at once . In fact mutations are changes in the nucleotide sequence of DNA that may produce a new protein. The mathematical likelihood of getting multiple mutations that just happen to engender a complex result is essentially zero. The mathematics is clear but not easily explained to a television audience, no matter how intelligent.

In many years of of writing columns, I have learned that the tenacity of attachment to emotionally important ideas is nearly infinite. This is as true of evolutionists as it is of Christians, the politically ardent, or the rabidly patriotic. Things that do not fit the belief are just ignored, forbidden,  or explained away by wishful thinking.

Consider evolution and male homosexuality. This condition would seem to have very strong selective pressures against it. You do not increase your rate of reproduction by not reproducing. While some homosexuals have children, they do so at a rate far, far below that of normal men. The condition should have long since gone out of existence. Yet homosexuals are still with us, apparently no less commonly  than in Greek and Roman times.

This is not a trivial matter.for evolutionism. If no reason can be found, then there exists a clear case of anti-Darwinian descent. To avoid this,  evolutionists say that a virus causes homosexuality. There is no evidence for this. People do not have a slight fever and turn into homosexuals. Such a virus has not been found. Evolutionists just know that it exists because if it didn’t, homosexuals could not exist. Here again, the theory is taken for granted and the existence of supporting causes imagined.

Parallel universes: More of the same. Many underlying physical constants such as gravitation have exactly the values needed to make life possible. That is, the universe looks designed. This observation is usually called the Anthropic Principle. The correctness of the observations is not in doubt. The condition is so peculiar that evolutionists, desperate to explain this unlikely coincidence, assert the existence of an infinite number of universes among which by chance ours just happened to have the necessary constants. Well and good, except that there is no evidence for it. These universes are not detectable. They are necessary to prevent a Darwinian embarrassment.

Darwin of the Gaps: Note the pattern of inventing unobservable causes to explain lacunae in the theory. Oceans suited to the chance appearance of life must have existed (though we do not know of what they consisted) since life exists. A virus causing homosexuality must exist (though there is no evidence for this) because homosexuals exist. An infinity of parallel universes must exist (though we have no way of knowing this) as otherwise th universe we live in might look designed.

What fun.

Click to visit the TBP Store for Great TBP Merchandise
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
75 Comments
Anonymous
Anonymous
July 31, 2018 9:00 am

Assuming, on any level from the big bang to the beginning of life, that nothing became something without reason or cause by something (because with nothing in existence there was nothing to give reason or cause to it) is not scientific, it is foolishness.

The idea of nothing becoming something should belong to philosophy, not science. No proof or evidence or fact is needed for philosophical speculation the way it is -or should be- for science.

Iska Waran
Iska Waran
July 31, 2018 9:15 am

Take your vitamin C. If you catch a cold, you might turn gay as a bluebird.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Iska Waran
July 31, 2018 4:24 pm

No, it isn’t a slight fever. It is Magic. How else is that great basketball player named? My Ass Got Infected Coach Johnson.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 9:20 am

Fred, give it a rest. You can no more understand evolution than you can understand the government of any country, including the one that you left for your own convenience. Sorry, that was an unnecessary slap. The fundamental difference between the science of evolution and intelligent design is that the scientists who study the science of evolution are always willing to discard old ideas that don’t work and accept new ideas that seem to. They don’t know, but are willing to change. The religious who contend that the incredible complexity of life is proof of gods hand have never changed their tune. They won’t believe in anything save that which they believe by faith alone.

The fact that you can’t understand evolution does not mean that it doesn’t work. The fact that you don’t understand evolution does not mean that life on earth didn’t start in the oceans. And the fact that nobody understands exactly how that happened doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. Maybe some day, a very smart person will explain evolution so completely and precisely that you, or perhaps your children or your nephews and nieces will actually have to agree that it seems to have worked that way. But those who believe that god laid his loving hand upon the void are never going to put the work in to get to that understanding. They are lazy and by and large stupid and are perfectly happy to believe that the only way to get to eyes or brains or symphonies is for god to have called it into existence. This in spite of the fact that, while nobody actually knows how life started, that chihuahua that you have is proof that evolution works just fine. A few hundred years ago there where no chihuahuas and then evolution through human selection pressures bred a strain of useless, yappy, mutts that some humans took a liking to.

The science of evolution does not require your personal understanding of it. It is not complete, as are no sciences, but that does not mean that it is wrong. But the shear numbers of differing interpretation of the one true god or gods is proof that mankind is not the product of intelligent design. If there was any intelligence in the design then at the very least everyone would have faith in the same god and nobody does. Intelligent design requires some level of intelligence in the designer and some demonstration of intelligence in the designed product. Neither are available to you. So I suggest that you dedicate your time to more fruitful endeavors.

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 9:38 am

Why are there still ameba? Why are there still frogs? If we evolved from such things why didn’t they evolve? Evolutionary theory is a joke. Even Darwin said that if life were much more complicated than simple cells dividing that his theory would not hold water. And quit calling it “the science of evolution” there is no such thing. It is a theory and not a very well supported one either. God does not require your personal understanding of Him either. By the way, what year is it? … Chip

RiNS
RiNS
  SmallerGovNow
July 31, 2018 10:01 am

17 Dhul Qadah, 1439

As-salāmu ʿalaykum,

RiNS

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  SmallerGovNow
July 31, 2018 10:32 am

Oh for god’s sake. None of us understand evolution even slightly and nobody knows anything at all about intelligent design. What is the point of stirring this pot. The stew has burned to the bottom a long time ago. Those of you who choose to sit at the bottom of the pot reading books written by sadistic fanatics thousands of years ago please keep it to yourself. Just know that you’re wrong.

Oh and nice rejoinder there RiNS.

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 11:48 am

There is more historical evidence written and unwritten for the new and old testament than ANY book(s) EVER written. That is a FACT. And sorry but the year is 2018 (anno Domini) “in the year of our Lord”… Chip

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  SmallerGovNow
July 31, 2018 11:55 am

It is for you chip, but not for everyone else. And worse, what year you think it is on some arbitrary calendar does not in the slightest prove the existence of your god.

RiNS
RiNS
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 12:35 pm

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/gregorian-calendar.html

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/julian-calendar.html

Speaking of chips…

HR Ya ain’t gonna break thru that concrete even with a diamond tipped axe…
They cannot get straight when that guy from Nazareth wuz born…

then SGN preaches about dates

but whats a week or so between friends

[imgcomment image[/img]

For fuck sakes dem tards can’t even agree on date and now they’re gonna lecture the unwashed about the Great Book of Facts..

the stupid burns….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JkQq-0ApFM

PlatoPlubius
PlatoPlubius
  SmallerGovNow
July 31, 2018 4:06 pm

Evolution nope

Natural selection yup

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 11:56 am

Hollywood, you just can’t be that dumb…Science is about one thing, the search for truth…Darwin, a scientist, was well aware that the fossil record did not support his gradual evolution theory, and said so…The theory that life evolved from random proteins in a primeval sea has always been questionable because there didn’t seem to be enough time, mathematically, if there was even a mechanism. But we know that Earth is constantly bombarded with rocks which contain carbon, spores and perhaps other bits of dormant life. Evolution occurs all the time, but it doesn’t explain things like the long-necked giraffe which require thousands of simultaneous mutations….that can’t happen naturally.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  pyrrhus
August 1, 2018 7:29 pm

Pyrrhus, I can be that dumb if I want to be, but what you state in your reply is in no way related to evolution. You clearly don’t understand anything at all about evolution. Evolution is not thousands of simultaneous mutations. It is about thousands of individual mutations over a very long period of time, and the interaction of those mutations with the environment in which each mutated entity finds itself. If the environment supports the mutation it lives to breed and pass on it’s genetic material. If the environment is hostile to the mutation the individual with the bad mutation dies and fails to pass along it’s genetic material.

Does that make more sense to you?

TJF
TJF
July 31, 2018 9:56 am

We had our chance in 2008 to have RP as our president. He would’ve shook up the things that matter more than Trump and maybe helped get us on the right track.

We got Trump because we didn’t get RP.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  TJF
July 31, 2018 10:27 am

Focus TJF. Fred was asking about evolution and intelligent design. Ron Paul has his own thread. If you want to support him do it there.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  TJF
July 31, 2018 11:59 am

True, but since RP believes in the libertarian notion of open borders, he would have been a disaster, though much better than the Kenyan.

OutWithLibs
OutWithLibs
  pyrrhus
August 1, 2018 8:24 am

FRom RP:
“My “Trust but Verify” amendment requires Congress to write and enforce a border security blueprint rather than relying on bureaucracies, such as the Department of Homeland Security, to come up with a plan.

This amendment also would provide new national security safeguards to track the holders of student visas and those provided asylum and refugee status….
But in order to protect our nation and reform the immigration process, we must know who is and is not entering our country. That cannot be done without securing our border.”

Dutchman
Dutchman
July 31, 2018 10:33 am

The entire universe was created from nothing. All matter is composed of energy. We are all ‘condensed’ microwave energy.

To propose that some entity – outside the universe created all life: single cell / insects (millions of different kinds) / fish / invertebrates / dinosaurs / mammals – is absurd.

What supports evolution is the ‘common ancestor’. Notice all animals – have hearts / livers / stomachs / kidneys …..

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  Dutchman
July 31, 2018 11:54 am

Why didn’t those animals evolve? If natural selection led to the superior human form why didn’t all animals evolve? If there is true evolution why are there homosexuals? They don’t reproduce and should have (according to natural selection) been bred out of existence. The THEORY of evolution leaves many more questions than answers… Chip

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  SmallerGovNow
July 31, 2018 12:08 pm

In your mind, chip, yes it leaves more questions than you can answer. In other peoples minds that is not the case. Every organism that is currently living is living because it works in the environment that it finds itself in. Those animals did evolve. They evolved into the animals that you see today. They will evolve into the animals that you will see tomorrow, if you would but look. But you won’t. You can’t. You can’t understand why you even should. There is no homo gene. Homo’s did’t come out of an evolutionary process. Not all processes are evolutionary. Some are adaptations to existing conditions and clearly will not provide an evolutionary path. That does not mean that there will not be homos. There are homos in almost all animals, your dog would be a good place to start. What is the evolutionary advantage to humping your leg? And yet hump your leg he does. Why? because he can and he likes it. It’s not all about evolution.

Why are stupid people having more babies than smart people? That doesn’t seem to have any evolutionary advantage. But even you would have to admit that stupid people are more likely to breed more stupid people. And that’s evolution baby. if it turns out that the stupid people can’t adapt to the new environment, they will go extinct just as the vast majority of life forms that have inhabited our planet have. There are many more extinct life forms than there are life forms currently living. Evolution weeded out the bad evolutionary branches and allows the good ones to evolve into you and your symphony with your eye.

Don’t be confused by your lack of understanding. Reality does not require your acquiescence or your understanding. You are the life form that will suffer for your genetic inadequacies. No one else will unless your inadequacy has spread to the entire population. Then you all go extinct at the same time when the environment changes to unfavorable conditions.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Dutchman
July 31, 2018 11:56 am

Oh, my. That’s not even close. All animals do not have organs.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  Dutchman
July 31, 2018 12:04 pm

Wrong…all animals don’t have those things…But we are conscious energy creatures with souls that somehow developed from a primeval plasma of fundamental particles…Hard to imagine how that could have happened without a Creator.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  pyrrhus
August 1, 2018 7:31 pm

Hard for you. Not for the rest of us. Just you.

Rdawg
Rdawg
  pyrrhus
August 1, 2018 8:24 pm

The concept of a “soul” is a completely fabricated fantasy, born out the desire to deny the fact that when yer dead, yer dead.

Gilnut
Gilnut
July 31, 2018 10:41 am

I’ve always had an affinity for the “Intelligent Design” argument, but not in a sense that I believe most think of it.

It seems to me that, as science and knowledge progresses, that we are finding that life does not need ‘encouragement’ to thrive, quite the contrary, it seems that life blossoms in places we ‘think’ it should not be able to. The whole ‘system’ seems to be setup to encourage life, and the only time that it doesn’t happen is when it’s suppressed for some reason, primarily due to the complete absence of one or more of the fundamental ‘ingredients’. The problem is, we haven’t really identified entirely, what those fundamental ingredients are. The more we look, the more we find life existing in places that lack what we ‘thought’ was a fundamental ingredient.

As far as the ‘Intelligent’ quotient in the Intelligent Design. Nobody has enough information to make an informed determination on that, nor are we likely to ever find it. However, lack of evidence is not necessarily evidence in itself. Therefore I’ll hold off on a final opinion until such time real evidence is found and presented, until that time it’s all on faith. I personally think that if there is an Intelligent Creator, that ‘it’ would be not at all concerned with the petty issues and personality traits that we imbue it with. I find it hard to fathom that such a being would be personally invested in whether or not, nor how, our loved ones lived or died. That’s just me. Maybe the whole ‘system’, that which we call ‘Nature’ or ‘Natural’, has a certain amount of sentience to it. To my mind everything seems to be interconnected more than we know or realize, and there’s a reason for that.

Just my two (non)cents. 😉

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
July 31, 2018 10:44 am

“The Bible seems to me the chaotic literature of a barbaric tribe and characterized by morally unpleasant stories. Why it is thought to have any relevance to abiogenesis is not clear to me.”

This is because Fred, you choose not to study it to see what it says. Instead, you pay attention to what the majority say about it. An all too typical and lazy position…

The study of origins is innately unscientific. We were not there to witness what occurred, cannot repeat what occurred in a lab and therefore either must remain in ignorance or rely upon revealed truth (what He who was there says about it). One thing is for certain; either something created everything, or nothing created everything because here we are. The evolutionist believes everything came from nothing at all, that creation is some vast cosmic accident. (I’m not quite sure how a “cosmic accident” might have occurred without a cosmos however…) The Christian believes a Creator brought all things into being in perfect order just as the Bible (revealed truth) says.

Which scenario requires more “faith”? If answered honestly, evolution becomes more of a far fetched matter of faith than belief in a Creator.

Edit: my favorite book on the subject…

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  grace country pastor
July 31, 2018 1:52 pm

You can read a million books that support your feeble religion and they won’t help you understand evolution. You can read Darwin and yet, if you believe in the loving hand of your god, you won’t understand evolution. You are free to have a favorite book. It can be wrong. You can have a favorite video. It can be wrong. You can surround yourself with as many like minded people as you can find and you can all be wrong.

Everything that Fred, and all of the rest of you religious fanatics are saying is just wrong. You don’t understand. That’s fine, but your lack of understanding does not prove that your lunatic religious fanatical beliefs are a viable alternative. You prove your inability to understand in the examples that you choose to bring forth. All of them are inappropriate explanations of the contentions of evolutionary science.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 3:17 pm

“Evolutionary science”… a contradiction in terms if ever there was one. Your ranting and raving against Him which made you continue to prove that which He says about you.

It takes God in Paul all of 4 verses to sum up the willfully ignorant.

Romans 1:18-21 KJV… “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.”

You’re a fool.

RiNS
RiNS
  grace country pastor
July 31, 2018 8:01 pm
Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  grace country pastor
July 31, 2018 8:49 pm

And you will reside in the dungeons of Valhalla for eternity for your blasphemy and your your conceit. Allah will piss on your grave and his followers will dance on the graves of your children.

Peace be with you.

RiNS
RiNS
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 9:59 pm

HR

You are fighting the good fight Sir. But you have to know that it is a waste of time. Why not join my team. There are loads of benefits. I promise! Been told in the REAL heaven Friday night Wing Night is to die for. Plus a fella can eat bacon all day everyday…..

[imgcomment image[/img]

And nobody will be pissing on my grave. Odin or my Wife is gonna make sure that doesn’t happen. See the Big Guy has been itching for a round 2 ever since Him and his brothers Vili, and Ve boot fucked that big Ymir to get this party started in the first place

[imgcomment image[/img]

So best quit with trying to convert these sheep. Let those dumb fucks dream of jumping clouds and plucking harps..

[imgcomment image[/img]

Whattaya got to lose.

Just to sweeten the deal..

Seeing as you are doing all this work for so little thanks the first round of beers are on me when you get to Valhalla… And If you get there before me don’t worry.

I phoned ahead.

Anyways, It will be great.

And in the meantime Odin tells me to tell you to tell his Grace that the pastor can go suck on a bucket of dicks.

Yous in Odin,

RiNS

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  RiNS
August 1, 2018 8:11 am

Can’t win an argument so go about name calling and ad hominem attacks. You two (HR and RINs) are quite the pair and arrogant beyond belief… Chip

RiNS
RiNS
  SmallerGovNow
August 1, 2018 9:07 am

I am just the black in yer kettle Bud..

Both of you, The Cuntish Pastor and yerself, don’t mind being cuntish fuckwads either…

And then you bitch like the lil’ pussy, just like Jesus on the cross, about Arrogance. This after your appeal from authority that you are, wait for it, an Engineer. Well fuckmedead and call me a spoon!

Yeah, you sir are one giant fucken hypocrite. So you have spent your entire life thinking about the great mysteries of the universe. Big fucken whoop! Somehow in your mind your ideas have moar heft because you can calculate a moment.. That you have a Masters matters not ya squarehead. Plenty before were smarter than you. Nietzsche, Hegel and Socrates come to mind, and yet moar will come after you are gone.

Get in fucken line with all the rest of the proles. Just because you can use a slide-rule doesn’t make your shit stink any less.. Newsflash you ain’t all that. I ain’t. Hollywood ain’t and most especially The Pastor ain’t.

And you can blow me too! On a non-Homo kinda a way…

Just a warning.
Ya best change yer ways.
Odin is telling me
just this morning

Like Mr. T
he has been looking at you
this is what he to say
There is an Engineer
With a Masters no less
And he looks Mighty
Good on those Genes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stsnlTZG84Y

Yours in Odin,

RiNS

Get back to your temple and reports. I have a guitar to play..

diogenes
diogenes
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 9:22 am

GCP reminds me of a first grader clutching his copy of “The Cat in the Hat” and believing that it contains all knowledge.

Happy Wotan’s Day!

Stucky
Stucky
  diogenes
August 1, 2018 12:54 pm

diogenes

Man, oh man, you really pissed off GCP for calling him conceited!

Well, he responded with a most lengthy and wordy article interlaced wif many trufs from Da Woid of Gawd. Now, I know that you are a very busy man and, as such, you likely can’t be bothered with all that Bible Stuff. Fortunately for you, I am somewhat well versed with the Bible and, gracious servant that I am, I am willing to summarize his lengthy response. It follows thusly, so please pay close attention …

1. You are, like, totally full of shit! As such, you are going to hell.

2. He is, like, totally Rightly Dividing the Word. A teller of Truth. Listen to him!!

3. Trust God’s authority, NOT your own. And, for fuksake, stop masturbating ya fag!

You’re Welcome.

Courage Valhalla Gothi
Courage Valhalla Gothi
  Stucky
August 1, 2018 1:13 pm

“To his friend a man should bear him as friend,
and gift for gift bestow,
laughter for laughter let him exchange,
but leasing pay for a lie.”

Havamal: 41

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Stucky
August 1, 2018 2:41 pm

Not bad Sticky, not bad. Good to see you’re paying attention.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 11:57 am

I find it to be interesting, not surprising mind you but interesting that you choose to use the word “conceit” in reference to me. Understand well that it is not me that you or your homosexual buddies RiNS and diogenes are railing against. I don’t get angry with your childish rants as it is the Creator Himself that you yourself deny and rail against… in favor of (wait for it) yourself (your worldly understanding of things). And you find conceit in me as I rely totally on Gods understanding and explanation of the world and not my own? You, the mere creature, deny your Creator outright in favor of a “theory” which postulates that everything comes from nothing at all, and I am conceited for believing in our Creator and His “greater than worldly” understanding? If you have half a brain cell working (such remains to be seen) you ought to see the utter hypocrisy in this.

The wisdom of God our Creator is so much greater than what could possibly reside in our own heads (or the head of Dr. Seuss) that coming to understand Gods wisdom can cause a human head to nearly explode. He has made that wisdom available to anyone and everyone. You speak rudimentary English, what does this verse say?

1 Cor 1:21… “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”

Allow me to help… it says that the the world, by its own (human) wisdom, knew NOT God. The world talked itself out of belief in God in favor of “science” falsely so called (1 Tim 6:20). What for? The world, human beings, do not particularly enjoy accountability. What exactly does the “theory” of evolution postulate (it is far older than Darwin by the way)? That there is no need for God and thus, no accountability to Him. Creation, if given enough time, accidentally creates itself. Much like the tornado which passes through the junkyard smashing and blending bits and pieces of debris together (for billions of years of course… it’s a big tornado!) and produces a fully functional 747 jetliner. Such zero accountability in creation allows me (and everyone else) to do whatever I want to do. And this is what you rest upon? This is your foundation? Welcome to the world. Take a good long look at what such thinking has produced. You sure you’re ready for this 4’th (or 8’th or 16’th…) turning?

1 Cor 1:19… “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

I doubt you are capable of inferring the implications of evolutionary theory to its logical conclusion (it takes the Bible). Again allow me… IF we were monkeys 100,000 (+/-) years ago, and now we are humans; what will we be in another 100,000 years (or less if the transhumanists can convince you to take “evolution” into your own hands)?

Gen 3:5… “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, AND YE SHALL BE AS gODS, knowing good and evil.”

Evolution lifts man into the position satan has from the very beginning convinced him he can lift himself into. It says we just keep getting better and better. And I’m conceited Hollywood Rob? Better stick to words y’all understand, like “asshole”. I’d have ignored that. I believe the world is actually devolving (that means getting worse and worse). Only God can make it better… and He will someday. Could this be the “last turning”?

You, Hollywood Rob, like all God deniers, have a problem with authority. Deep down it is authority over self which you crave yet cannot have. This is the source of your worldly frustrations. Understand that there is an authority over you who has the sole right of ownership, judgement and ultimate condemnation (or not) against your eternal soul. Come to the saving knowledge of this truth before it is everlasting too late. The knowledge of God our Creator is inherent in every child born. The world with satan as its head does its level best to “educate” such knowledge right out of that child. Its accomplishments are Legion.

I don’t like you much at all Hollywood Rob, but God loves you very much. You are His creation. He died on the cross to pay for the sins you commit every day and the sin which is inherent in each and every one of us. Believe and be saved.

1 Cor 1:22-23… “For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;”

Submitted for your approval (in my best Rod Serling voice) is the following. Picture a man in a white lab coat, a man who thought he knew the ways of science, a man who one day awoke to find himself caught in the nexus of… the Twilight Zone.

[youtube

The above is part 4 of a series entitled “problems with authority” and deals with the subject matter this article addresses. The series in its entirety can be found here…

Problems With Authority

Give it a go. Or not. Up to you of course. God created us with free will for a reason.

diogenes
diogenes
  grace country pastor
August 1, 2018 12:40 pm

“He hath need of his wits who wanders wide,
aught simple will serve at home;
but a gazing-stock is the fool who sits
mid the wise, and nothing knows.”

Havamal: 5

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  grace country pastor
August 1, 2018 12:57 pm

And now the grace country pastor reveals the truth about his religion of hatred. The error is his. The lack of understanding is his. His god can do no wrong so he rails against those who would help to teach him. He does not want to be taught. He wants to hate. His god is full of hate and he is full of hate and he can not be saved from the hatred that infests his soul. Lucky for him, he doesn’t have a soul. He doesn’t get to go to heaven. He just gets to rot in the ground like the rest of us. And he will most likely give up trying to save us troglodytes who are condemned to his hell by his god who hates. He has to give up. Clearly, quoting biblical texts does not seem to be a useful tactic in a discussion of either evolution or creative design. This leaves him only the hatred that is documented in his bible, and in all the books that he reads, and in all the videos from all of the hateful god fearing beasts who make this world a far worse place.

I am so glad that Fred tossed this second grenade into the pig stye. I suspect that he didn’t expect this to turn against him but is has certainly allowed our beloved pastor a perfect opportunity to display his putrid bile for all to see.

Yours in hatred. May god guide you to your final reward.

grace country pastor
grace country pastor
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 2:44 pm

“I don’t like you much at all Hollywood Rob, but God loves you very much. You are His creation. He died on the cross to pay for the sins you commit every day and the sin which is inherent in each and every one of us. Believe and be saved.”

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate… Yea, I see what you’re saying.

Courage Valhalla Gothi
Courage Valhalla Gothi
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 3:10 pm

“The speech of a pastor should no man trust,
though he quote from an old Joooish book.
For oftentimes when leaving a flock members house,
He is seen wiping the chicken from his lips,
or zipping up his zipper.”

Havamal: 83.5

RiNS
RiNS
  grace country pastor
August 1, 2018 1:09 pm

Best to take it easy on the Pastor Dio! And you too Hollywood. And of course my best Bud Stucky in a friendly non-Homo kinda way…Seems there be a few raw nerves in the Pastors quiver…Chips too! I mean zir both are having a rough day. See with zhirs being exposed to the true light and divine truth of Wotan he is now being shook to the core of Vis very being. It must really suck to find out that Ve was reading from the wrong book.

Anyways Odin has special plans
For guys like him.
To get to Valhalla
It will be blowjobs
under the table
before Xe receives xyrs pass
to finally get in.

But still I jest
Because I wish to defer
To my friends
Stucky and Dio
and Hollywood Rob
It’s all done in course
to just throw a few turds
in a non-homo kinda way
somethin’ were all known for
Here on TBP
Each and every day.

not that there is anything wrong with that….

[imgcomment image[/img]

Well there is.

The Pastor is after all an insufferable twat. But he was made in the faint light of the creator. So I guess I need to love him in a friendly non-homo kinda way..

It likely was overcast that day when he came to be.
till he is a special snowflake of Gawd..
And that makes him alright with me…

Maybe my buddy Gay Vet could spare us a thought or two to add to this riveting conversation…

Yours in Odin,

RiNS

Courage Valhalla Gothi
Courage Valhalla Gothi
  RiNS
August 1, 2018 1:27 pm

“For the unwise man ’tis best to be mute
when he come amid the crowd,
for none is aware of his lack of wit
if he wastes not too many words;
for he who lacks wit shall never learn
though his words flow ne’er so fast”

Havamal :27

OutWithLibs
OutWithLibs
July 31, 2018 10:54 am

So where did the rocks that collided and made a “big bang” come from?? Did they form, grow, enlarge from small dust particles in space? Oh, wait, where did that dust come from?? And doesn’t a “bang” blow things apart….not bring them together?? Last I saw, a nuke displaced a LOT more particles than anything ever brought together……. If we have developed into these intelligent human beings, why can’t we figure out the human brain? Why can’t we understand how the heart pumps continuous for a lifetime without missing a beat (most of the time :O) )
How did Dolly the lamb work out for us??? Giving any credence to evolution is someone desperate to avoid thinking that there is a God and that eternity exists. As for me, there can be no HUMAN explanation of how this world and everything in it exists other than a God that is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omni-present………. Alpha and Omega

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  OutWithLibs
July 31, 2018 11:29 am

And that right there is why we can’t have nice things. I want to thank Fred for tossing another hand grenade into the pig pen. Just because your own feeble brain can’t wrap itself around reality is no reason to waddle off into the weeds of revealed truth. Well no, I guess that can’t be right because here we go again. Just because your own feeble brain can’t wrap itself around reality is exactly the reason why you waddle off into the weeds of revealed truth.

Your intelligent designer created a horrible design. It was horrible before man showed up. It got worse after man took over. There is no intelligent design ergo no intelligent designer. It is your lack of understanding of the science and study of evolution that confounds you and leaves you open to the comfortably numb notion that some old man in a bath robe created the heavens and the earth in seven days. If you want to understand it, and none of you do, you are going to have to dig in and study and that’s never going to happen. All of the gum flapping you fools have going on here is in no way related to evolutionary science. “Honestly, don’t you two read?” Well, of course you don’t read, but at the very least you could watch a couple of youtube videos. Not the ones that show some wild eyed bible thumper spouting platitudes to assuage your bruised feelz, some by a real evolutionary biologist who can tell you what he really thinks. I am not saying that he is right, he most certainly is no more right than your bible thumper. What I am saying is that he is on a road to knowledge that the bible thumper will never take a single step on.

Take that first step.

SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 12:05 pm

I’ve read Darwin. I’ve read dozens of books both pro and con on the subject of evolution. I’m a licensed professional engineer with BS and MS in engineering and I’ve thought about this subject critically as an adult for about four decades now. All you can do is hurl insults like … “Just because your own feeble brain can’t wrap itself around reality”. Road to knowledge? Not so much… Chip

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 11:33 am

Or perhaps I could point you to Richard Dawkins, but we all know what would happen then.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
July 31, 2018 11:38 am

“People do not have a slight fever and turn into homosexuals.”

Not true. That happened to me on my 18th birthday. Caught some kind of flue. Been a homo ever since.

Gay Vet
Gay Vet
  Fleabaggs
August 1, 2018 12:21 pm

fles’s the best i’ve ever had–

Gay Vet
Gay Vet
  Gay Vet
August 1, 2018 12:22 pm

but rins was a close 2nd–

RiNS
RiNS
  Gay Vet
August 1, 2018 12:24 pm

Thanks Man! I appreciate the atta boy in the friendly non-homo kinda way..

Anonymous
Anonymous
  RiNS
August 1, 2018 1:18 pm

Nice to see you posting again, GV. I hate to tell you, Fleabo is a known homophobe so the above may be a dopple.
EC

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs
  Fleabaggs
August 1, 2018 3:07 pm

Whoever you are that’s funny, I don’t care who you are that’s funny.
For the record I’m not a homo-phobe or gay. Don’t have time to waste hating anyone.

RiNS
RiNS
  Fleabaggs
August 1, 2018 3:14 pm

So can I now get first prize. I mean after all the innuendo and aspersions cast by The Cuntish Pastor and xirs sidekick Chips I feelz I deserve it…

GayVet
GayVet
  Fleabaggs
August 1, 2018 3:59 pm

we know you’re not,you were just experimenting,but it was still tingly–

Stucky
Stucky
July 31, 2018 11:51 am

I believe that GOD created all things, including man, and he used EVOLUTION to accomplish it.

This no doubt will piss off both Christians and Evolutionists alike … to which I don’t give a rat’s ass. I have the best of both worlds … Synchronicity … and all you down voters can go suck an egg.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  Stucky
July 31, 2018 12:12 pm

Pass me my egg.

RiNS
RiNS
  Hollywood Rob
July 31, 2018 2:01 pm

Can’t… it rolled down the hill and into swamp…

BL
BL
July 31, 2018 12:12 pm

How do you explain BB ? Missing link?

Penforce
Penforce
  BL
July 31, 2018 1:05 pm

Small BBang.

RiNS
RiNS
  Penforce
July 31, 2018 1:23 pm

now that’s funny…

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  RiNS
July 31, 2018 1:43 pm

32 million of them. You don’t have to esplain it. But you do have to deal with it.

john prokovich
john prokovich
July 31, 2018 2:40 pm

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, soon will be the worlds capital city for a 1000 years.

Rdawg
Rdawg
  john prokovich
August 1, 2018 8:31 pm

“Soon”.

Boy if I had a dollar for every time I have heard a Christian say that word…

Per/Norway
Per/Norway
July 31, 2018 7:52 pm

i guess we will have to wait until we die before we get the truth. everything we “learn” here i life is just theory and can seldom be definitivly proven or unproven. on the other hand,,,, the near death stories and the experiences the dying have with visions gives me great confidence that i need not fear death unless i become evil. i am not afraid to search for the truth without locking in to any dogmatic belief or admit that i dont know or was wrong.
That said, i do not buy the evolution theory or the comet seeding theories. There is just no plausible evidence, mostly circular argumentation, like the climate change crowd. What my eyes,gut and reading tells me is that i CAN NOT belive in chance and coincidences and there is a will behind everything that we cant see but sense. Sadly the jesuitts and the vatican have managed to destroy and/or control our past a while so unless we get access to all the “secret” libraries we dont stand a chance in discovering our true history and place in the universe. Did any of you know there were white skinned south american tribes because “the system thought you”? the mocking bird project is not a novel or new idea, just the newest known face of a old agenda. Imo most people prefer to live with cognitive dissonans then admit they are wrong. I hold no hope that this generation will come close to the truth, I fear it will be many generations until humanity get intelligent enough to live in peace long enough for the truth to be known and rule, to many of us living now is dependent on the system. they cant even see the traps and logical errors in their “elites” system(s), our children will sadly remain prisoners in this evil usury/fiat system systematically destroying our only known habitat. The “red pill” is bigger then most people imagine, many believe they ate one,, yet feverishly defend the status quo and its rulers without even noticing.. Cognitive dissonans is a strong coping mechanism for us humans..

ApoloDoc
ApoloDoc
July 31, 2018 9:48 pm

What very few people seem to understand is that neo-Darwinian evolution is dead as a theory. Largely behind closed doors, the really smart biochemists and molecular biologists acknowledge this. They know they need a new paradigm, but as they are committed to a materialist-atheist viewpoint, they are stuck.

Very briefly, it might do some of you some good to learn about epigenetic information. It turns out that there is information needed to properly build an organism that is NOT encoded in DNA. For example, there is spacial information that must be present to serve as a guide or template. Random mutation and differential reproduction? You cannot get a functional organism without epigenetic information, and it certainly doesn’t arise from an altered sequence of DNA base pairs.

Even more absurd, at a time when this theory is circling the toilet bowl, poorly informed Christians want to “join the club” and have this bizarre idea, or better yet, an oxymoron: theistic evolution. Random chance mutation BY DEFINITION is random, not planned or directed by God! Adding “theistic” to a theory relying on random chance is incoherent.

Stephen Meyer, PhD has just published a MASSIVE tome deconstructing evolution and theistic evolution. Actually his previous book “Darwin’s Doubt” dismantles evolutionary theory quite well, but my understanding is his latest is written for an academic audience. It is enjoyable catching up on all that has been learned since biochem in undergrad and med school. For those of us who DO hold to a theistic worldview, the evidence continues to build on our side. Sadly the biologists have made this their line in the sand, ‘hold to this atheistic system’. PERIOD.

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  ApoloDoc
August 1, 2018 2:07 pm

My goodness gracious. You could not have selected a more biased reference. He is literally the man who invented the “pseudoscientific” fanatical concept of intelligent design. He believes that people and dinosaurs walked the earth together. He believes that the heavens and the earth were created in six days. Come on ladies, you really are going to have to do better than this. Your puny god is not impressed and neither are we.

Stephen C. Meyer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Born 1958 (age 59–60)
USA
Alma mater University of Cambridge
Occupation Director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute and Vice President and Senior Fellow at the DI
Known for Advocate of intelligent design
Website http://www.stephencmeyer.org

Stephen C. Meyer (born 1958) is an advocate of the pseudoscientific principle of intelligent design. He helped found the Center for Science and Culture (CSC) of the Discovery Institute (DI), which is the main organization behind the intelligent design movement.[1][2][3] Before joining the DI, Meyer was a professor at Whitworth College. Meyer is currently a Senior Fellow of the DI and Director of its Center for Science and Culture (CSC)

RiNS
RiNS
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 2:35 pm

Pfft.. but here is the real question. Does he have a Masters in Engineering….

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
  RiNS
August 1, 2018 3:42 pm

Hey…I have a masters in engineering. Go easy on the MEng.

RiNS
RiNS
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 3:58 pm

My derision wasn’t to be directed at you…. just Chip.. Anyways all this talk of credentials with this Meyer fellow only proves how watered down things have gotten when it comes to letters after ones name. To think that Meyers believes that dinosaurs walked the earth with man. Hard to fathom how that guy calls himself a scientist when there is no evidence to prove his point. He believes that the heavens and the earth were created in six days. Really! So Ice cores in Greenland are fake. I know one thing for sure. I ain’t going to no doc to get checked out who thinks a guy like this is legit. No way!

Geeze can you imagine the conversation.

Mr. RiNS you need a heart bypass.
Here is the course of treatment
The plan from the Man..
Take two psalms and read them
Call me in the morning
And Praise Jesus..

Yours in Odin,

RiNS, BSc.

TampaRed
TampaRed
  Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 3:38 pm

“Stephen C. Meyer (born 1958) is an advocate of the pseudoscientific principle of intelligent design.”
who decides what is pseudoscientific as opposed to scientific?

RiNS
RiNS
  TampaRed
August 1, 2018 3:40 pm

This does..

[imgcomment image[/img]

Diogenes
Diogenes
  RiNS
August 1, 2018 4:03 pm

Boom Boom BOOM!

Hollywood Rob
Hollywood Rob
August 1, 2018 12:28 am

Here ya go doc;