Robert Bronsdon (Hollywood Rob) August 2018
Cyclical Transmigration
The current thinking on cosmology is that we observe that the galaxies are moving away from us and therefore must have at one time been much closer together leading us to the inevitable, and I suspect religiously based, conclusion that the entire universe was created in a big bang. If this does indeed turn out to be a false hypothesis, and indeed the universe is not expanding even though it would appear to be then we are left with but one alternative. That is that the universe is infinite and locally stable. This means that processes within the infinite universe are cyclical in nature; a never ending cycle of gravitational coalescing and nuclear destruction which at one point in the cycle leads to a planet which is amenable to life.
We seem to have observed that stars, and their systems, go through an evolution. Clouds of matter are pulled into a gravity well which grows in size until the gravity well is of sufficient strength to cause the Hydrogen in the well to commence fusion into Helium. This reaction fosters a star which then emits energy which is a byproduct of the fusion reaction and this energy propagates away from the fusion reaction but it must overcome the gravitational pull and it has to get past all of the atoms which have not undergone fusion before it can begin the journey; either to the nearest planet, or to distant planets around other stars where it can be observed by whatever life forms might be living there.
As this fusion reaction runs out of fuel the balance between the outward pressure of the emitted energy and the inward attraction of the gravity starts to tip towards the advantage of the gravity. This eventually leads to a single great explosion which we call a super nova. In our galaxy, and in other galaxies, we find that many stars go nova. In fact, there is literally no patch of sky that you can look at on any given night without seeing some.
So, while we don’t know this as a fact, it appears quite likely that eventually our, and in fact every, star will end in this way. And each of these endings will liberate more energy than almost an entire galaxy of stars in one brief flash. The process will surely obliterate the star itself, and all of the planets orbiting it although the process of reaching the super nova most probably will itself destroy most of what once orbited the star.
In any event, the ending of a star appears to leave little save great glowing gas clouds and an awful lot of matter which does not glow. It is supposed that once a star has gone super nova, that gas cloud can once again start the process of star system evolution. It has been proposed that most of the heavier elements in the periodic table are formed in the final explosion of a star.
Now whether this is true or not it must be granted that if these elements exist on our planet they most surely have not come from our star as it could not have created them yet out of the soup of Hydrogen fusing into Helium. So the elements which exist on earth must have either been made in a previous super nova, or have been in existence as small particles in space from the beginning.
What organic life form can maintain viability through the super nova evolution of a star system at the end of nuclear fusion? Is there anything other than encysted viruses which could conceivably survive the process to be flung into space there to await the inevitable pull of gravity as a new cycle begins to create a new star and a new solar system with new planets, goldilocks zones, and life?
So life always starts with encysted viruses which evolve into higher life forms through the process of invading other viruses and adding of DNA strands. They viruses come to the planets through the same gravitational imperative which forms the planet. They rain down onto the core along with the iron, the gold, and all of the other elements which make up every planet.
How can one possibly imagine a gravitational process which would concentrate only the Hydrogen in the star and the other elements in the planets circling the star. The star must contain just as much, if not more, of the elements as do the planets around it. They are all formed from the same cloud of ancient star dust.
A few other thoughts…
http://jesusisthewaythetruththelife.com/node/22
See also, “Darwin’s Doubt”, Stephen C. Meyer also author of “Signature of the Cell”. Both scientific books even though I know that Rob thinks all Christian believers have ever read is the bible… Chip
From the man who believes that dinosaurs walked with men. Now there is a theory with some real scientific basis.
Why don’t you come down to earth and observe how our star is involved in creating life on earth. This is real creation of conscious life. The sun is feeding the biosphere and the biosphere is not only evolving into conscious life but changing the earth itself. It is the biosphere that created our atmosphere and made the earth ready for man.
As for astronomy; since it broke off from astrology, it offers really nothing of value to us but speculations. It has very little substance that we on earth can use. Astrology has far more substance. Check out the history of astrology.
The creation of conscious life on earth thanks to our star has far more substance to contemplate than staring at far away stars and wasting our conscious energy on speculations that mean nothing to our life here on this planet.
The real story is here on earth where actions and energy transfers mean something. Our story is that of expanding consciousness.
We need a new religion. One that informs us we were created as the seed to make a dead universe conscious and dynamic. From all the history of our development we can surmise that life is an evolving mystery designed to impregnate our solar system with consciousness.
So why is your attention diverted to far away places that we have no access to when all the creative action that matters is taking place here?
Your bible buddies are stuck in the past. There are new chapters to write and new information to chew on. Do you really think that God is not dramatic and dynamic like your bible buddies do?
It is time for an updated religion. Many churches of today have lost their Christianity and they don’t even know it. It is the same Islam.
People are lost in their service to self. Christ preached service to others. But it is more than that. We need to develop our consciousness out of the subjective and into the objective so we can assume our responsibility of service to GOD and his eternal plan.
In the Lord’s Prayer it states that “Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.” Our being is infused with the attributes of Function and Will. When our Will is not aligned with God’s Will then we are living in sin.
Look at the conditions the people of the earth live in. We live in opposition of God’s Will so we suffer.
Our souls live with the grace of life. What we do with this life will determine what use we are to God in the next one; if we are worthy of another one.
See why we new a new religion?
No one is worthy, but God loves us anyway. Some of us, the ones he chooses to love. If you have a dog that occasionally shits on the carpet, you love him anyway, you know that he will shit on the carpet next week, and you’re still going to love him and give him his heart worm meds and pat him on the head. That’s what God thinks of us. Of course I would never own an animal because my house is immaculate and I want to keep it that way.
Wirth, agree with your sentiments. However, if you don’t want a dog, you could own a cat, who cleans himself and goes to potty in a box that only requires you to keep it emmaculate for him. That’s good advice if you want a pet. If not, disregard.
We don’t need a new religion. We need to get back to that Christian religion of the zero and first centuries that Jesus actually preached, not the religion of men that has come about since then.
And how are you any different from a muslim?
Are you addressing me, Hollywood?
Yes, you suggested that you wanted to go back to the original teachings of christianity, just as the muslims want to go back to the original teachings of mo the man. How are your desires any different, other than the god of course, from theirs?
THANK YOU, Thunderbird! My recent readings and reflections have entailed precisely this. Mankind desperately needs to evolve collectively, so that we focus on our responsibility of service to God and His eternal plan.
As it stands right at this moment, our collective path is a dead end against a solid adamantium wall in flames. This needs to change. Really, really soon.
‘So life always starts with encysted viruses which evolve into higher life forms through the process of invading other viruses and adding of DNA strands. They viruses come to the planets through the same gravitational imperative which forms the planet. They rain down onto the core along with the iron, the gold, and all of the other elements which make up every planet.’
Amen. I haven’t seen that much faith since the Apostles Creed.
Yes. Thank you for reading for comprehension.
But a virus needs a host. Where does the host come from? The virus lands on earth, to infect what? It’s a sterile environment prior to the virus landing.
Other viruses.
Please! What other viruses is a sterile environment.?
You don’t see the logical misstep you made there? I am appalled. Do you honestly believe that I am suggesting that only one virus is involved? Please come on along here sweetheart.
Micro-evolutionary change cannot be extrapolated to explain large scale Macro-evolutionary change. Macro-evolutionary change requires new information necessary to assemble new organs or whole body parts. It is impossible for this information to come about randomly… Chip
No, what you say is not true. In fact, it is exactly the opposite that is true. All evolutionary change is micro. There is no macro evolutionary change.
No macro evolutionary changes?
Let’s look at Mother Earth…is this planet considered alive? Does it put off it’s own frequency? Yup. Does it go through cycles like most other organisms? Yup. Is it part of a Bigger system at both the micro and macro levels? Yup.
For the longest time, At least in my public school and collegiate studies, earth sciences have taught that mountain formation occurred gradually over 1000s to millions of years and yet I have seen videos in the past few years where mountains are “formed” within hours or days due to plate tectonics and geothermal activity…
Your theory on viruses sounds like Agent Smith’s classification of humans in the movie The Matrix…
A machine computer program, attempting to explain a living organism with the intangible spirit that has eluded science’s attempt to explain, consciousness being a key aspect of this spirit or soul.
I wonder where mutations fit into in Your theory and wouldn’t a mutation or addition to a new factor into an environment due to the butterfly effect provide new macro possibilities?
All these things are words or labels created by man to help try and understand or categorize the cosmic, infinite, or unseen, but because of our star dust vessels and our separation from the infinite , some of life is designed to be left to our faith.
This is not to say that we shouldn’t develop, foster and glean knowledge from our surroundings and the research conducted by others who came before us…this would be a waste of ours and others gifts, these gifts that set our species apart from the rest of the animals on the planet and provide us the responsibility to be good stewards (although greed and pride have made the majority of us question the very systems that have brought us to this level of civilization)
At any rate, good discussion above…
Enjoyed your comments Thunderbird and others.
Sorry Plato, I found you comment difficult to follow. So let me take just a single point that you raise. If I have missed your primary concern I do apologize. Mutations are the basis of this hypothesis. But as many here have opined, you need to consider where those mutations might have started from. Many want to contend that because the bible says that man was created by god, in his own image, how can you come to any other conclusion but that all of man’s organs must have sprung into existence when god commanded it. Sure, maybe. But as an alternative, I choose to hypothesize that perhaps man was not placed here to rule over all that god gave him. I choose to consider that perhaps there must be some natural process that leads to the formation of life, and then eventually intelligent life, on this planet or any planet for that matter. I propose that the only living thing that can survive a super nova is likely to be an encysted virus. An encysted virus is not actually a life form, it is simply a dna strand in a crystalline shell. They are found all over the earth and don’t reconstitute into a living virus until the proper conditions present themselves. If those conditions don’t present themselves then the virus remains dormant – for a very long time. Millions of years. Billions of years. It doesn’t matter because the virus isn’t technically alive (and there is some debate about whether any virus is alive) until it finds itself in the proper conditions.
The hypothesis presented here is that life developed not by chance, or chemical reactions in a bubbling pool, but rather it developed as it always develops. After every super nova all that is left is a lot of viruses. When a new star forms along with new planets those viruses are redeposited onto each planet and any planet that develops the proper atmosphere for the viruses to come back to life will find that they do. And then, mutation takes over and life in all it’s myriad forms is the result.
Some of my thoughts above delve into Man’s ability to discern the infinite. We cannot. This isn’t to say we can’t hypothesize with new level of breakthrough or understanding in the sciences. What I’m saying, the existential philosophers have wrestled with since recorded history.
The only reason I bring this up is that you mention the Creation story from the Old testament with respect to your virus theory…to you this proves your stance that because viruses didn’t grow an arm and a leg or a head and because the Bible details how Adam and Eve were “made” then this somehow proves that Christianty is invalid or that Christians don’t believe in science.
So untrue.
The Bible mentions many times that our concept of time should not be confused with the Alpha and the Omega’s …1 day for us is not the same for Him. Perhaps the literal interpretation of this story is what causes much of the confusion with believers and non believers alike.
Let me state that I’m not sold on the whole we came from astralopithicus theory of anthropology…i do understand the law of natural selection in the animal kingdom, because I have witnessed it with my own eyes as well as others have done research on the effects of the survival of the best adapted for the environment.
Does this make me the village idiot? If so, so be it.
In the land where madness reigns supreme,
Maybe, just maybe the village idiot is one of the more sane and wise.
AMEN DR. SCIENCEMAN!!!!!!! Evolutionists have a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF FAITH in themselves to believe that something came from nothing without someone causing it!!!!!!!! Evolution-the religion of faith without facts!
What is boils down to is two miracles. Either creation was produced by a supernatural being, God, or it was craeted by a supernatural being, evolution. Take your pick. I choose God.
Now you are just getting silly sweetheart. Oh and spell checker will save you if you just look at what you are typing before posting the comment. Evolution does not create anything. It is not supernatural. It is natural and even today in front of your very eyes it continues to create new and different forms of life. Your dog is a perfect example, but there are plenty of them including that cold that you caught last year. You get a flu shot every year (well that’s because you are stupid but the point is valid) because you are told that the flu virus has mutated to form a different strain that you don’t have immunity too. That is evolution baby.
Science is its own religion
Immanuel Kant warned of such a thing way back!
…with jargon developed which over time promotes pride in its acolytes and high priest and confounds and discourages typical laymen from trying to understand…then, add statistics into it and we have a means to prove the validity that shit = gold…even scientists exercise faith in some of their theories and extrapolations…
Unfortunately we have not been encouraged to adequately develop these gifts each human soul is bestowed with…especially nowadays with the countless digital distractions everywhere from in our pockets, to the restaurants we eat at to the gas stations we fill our cars up at to the cars themselves, to, on and on…
I wonder if the iPad was around back in Newtons time, would he have noticed the apple falling from the tree and hitting his head and develop and pursue the concept of gravity?
It’s obvious God isn’t concerned about explaining science to mankind. He cares about our relationship to Himself and others. I’m trying to make it to Heaven but I have a billion science questions…
Robert,
I’m not a science guy, but here are some mathematical explanations from my link above. I don’t pretend to understand them or honestly need any of them for evidence in my life, but the author (a retired Pastor) takes email questions directly…quite a fascinating individual, we talk all the time. If you want to reach him through me ask Admin for my e-mail and I’ll connect you and him. (Hope that’s Ok Admin?) Same goes for anyone.
God is The Master Mathematician Riddle of 2,520 Revealed
http://www.nhunderground.com/jesus/PastorBob/God%20is%20The%20Master%20Mathematician%20RevA.pdf
God Truly is the Master Mathematician
http://www.nhunderground.com/jesus/PastorBob/God%20Truly%20is%20the%20Master%20Mathematician%2030%20Days.pdf
God’s DNA
http://www.nhunderground.com/jesus/PastorBob/God%27s%20DNA.pdf
“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” ~Carl Sagan
And then there’s black holes.
The question is, who made the stars and why.
where did the collapsing stars come from?
You didn’t read for comprehension. You only read what you wanted to read and then tried to stuff it into your christian world view. The actual point of the post is that the cycle has no beginning. It has no end. It is locally stable and it repeats forever.
I did read for comprehension and what I comprehended was that you are explaining a “theory” with no scientific basis what so ever… Chip
Yes, well actually it is not a theory. It is a hypothesis. That could lead to a theory but it isn’t one yet. And just because you don’t understand the scientific basis of the hypothesis does not mean that it has no scientific basis what so ever.
According to you, “the cycle has no end , it has no beginning,” According to God, there is no beginning and there is no end, so your point is?
My hypothesis does not require an old man in a bath robe. Yours does.
Speaking for myself these two verses use to fit me like hands in gloves, boxing gloves…for my first 43 years. There is a point in some lives…as it was in mine, when you realize your arms are to short to box with God.
Brokenness is a wonderful state…excruciatingly painful but it can birth new life. Not everyone goes that route, just the real pride filled super stubborn ones like me.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Isaiah 44:18
They do not know, nor do they understand, for He has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend.
It’s my belief we as Humans aren’t meant to know the levers that control the universe. That knowledge is reserved for the BIG PERSON, and who knows if he/she/it has a BOSS. Only thing I can swear to is the old saw that shit runs downhill.
And indeed it does.
Some level of belief seems to be a conscious or unconscious need as part of the human condition . Be it spiritual supernatural beings or a quest for answers to questions many yet undefined .
Our world is full of wonderous creations and for any of us to assume we have some divine guidance to infinite truth would be a leap of faith or a fool hardy excercise in futility . Many paths are followed in human history some turn out well while many are disastrous on a grand scale .
Studying the workings of the universe around us while sacrificing concern for the world sustaining us could be a waste of time and effort . Also constant devotion to some pointless rituals and mindless superstitution while ignoring the conditions of many people and issues around you could also be a waste of time and effort . Seeking a balance in our endevours while appreciating the works of creation is by no means a waste of time . We must temper our actions with intellect while living in the here and now !
Do good works because it brings you pleasure seek knowledge to enhance your good works . Any spirit in the sky will probably not find fault with that .
God doesn’t give us spiritual extra credit points for good works.
Well your god doesn’t perhaps but the god expressed by many christians most certainly does give extra credit for good works.
That’s because those Christians have been misdirected. The true God relies on faith and not works. There are many that are misguided in today’s Christianity. Those leaders who do not guide their flock correctly will be held to account by God in the end.
I have always saw Good Works and Fruit as the proof in the Faith pudding and its a heart thing…not a calculated head task. Hindsight being 20-20 I was extremely selfish before my little stroll down my Damascus Road.
Matthew 5:16 ESV
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
It’s not that Christians shouldn’t do Good Work because we should. But, the true Gospel suggests the more important thing to focus on is our relationship with Jesus Christ and admitting we are all fall short of the Glory of God and without God’s sacrifice, Jesus death and resurrection we all were doomed. The gift of freewill can be used to listen and follow or ignore and turn away.
Jesus ministry showed us how to do the good works …
The trick is many get caught up thinking that if I do these things then I get into heaven because of their guilt they still hold for sins or transgressions against others or even guilt with realizing that they are still sinners no matter how many good deeds they do. The redeeming qualities of the Gospel are hard to accept for many especially those of us who are fiercely independent, self made, and who haven’t had to ask for a helping hand often in life.
Our pride usually fuels these motives,…God is the final judge of our intentions…we can hide them from others but not Him. To me, I always “feel” a warmness and energy within me when helping others, especially when I have nothing to gain from it and when the help is given freely with no expectations attached to it.
PP,
That was one of your best posts!
We are one the same page on this one. You hammered many nail-heads.
Having worshiped at the alter of Me until I was 43…PRIDE was the mirror I kissed in the morning: from a tough two fisted boyhood, to a brutal war, to a bootstrap clawing career/company…PRIDE, PRIDE, PRIDE…until my heart transplant.
The first time I read this scripture (well into my 40’s) after my heart transplant, I wept.
Ezekiel 36:26
Berean Study Bible
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Mark,
Thank you for sharing your personal story. Wow! Truly amazing our individual journies.
An amazing testimony for sure.
I think many of us have gotten really good at hiding from existential questions through our abilities and adeptness at controlling aspects of our environment that have led to material success…so we keep doing it. Over time, if left un checked, this can lead to the development and reinforcement of our EGO that helps fuel the cycle on. It’s not until something outside of our control, i.e., an unforseen injury or diagnosis that , we are forced to face the existential questions about life and our own mortality…
Life truly is an amazing gift! It isn’t easy, but it is rewarding and satisfying if we can appreciate the magnitude of the gift of freewill.
Fascinating post. I guess I am a “Bible buddy” and, since it’s getting late and I’m fuzzy-ish, I am not sure if your observations are meant to be an argument AGAINST a biblical perspective or FOR it, as one might (as I did) consider your considerations to be a thoughtful expose of the magnificence of creation. Either way:
The earth spins on axis at around 1700 km/s, round and round and round, while gravity drags us down . . . and causes the earth to also orbit around the sun (while the moon orbits us) at a rate of about 108,000 km/s, during which the sun (and the earth and the rest of the solar system) grind through this backwater arm of a spiral galaxy that is the Milky Way at a rate of plus/minus 792,000 km/s WHILE said galaxy hurtles through the universe so fast that I just broke my freaking calculator (mechanical issue . . . i smacked myself in the head with it). In the end, we spin, sun turns, system orbits, galaxy spirals, universe dances . . . at something over 2 million kilometers per second.
https://astrosociety.org/edu/publications/tnl/71/howfast.html
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-fast-are-we-moving-through-space-985bf470378d
But here’s the thing that blows my mind, and Thunderbird mentioned it above: astrology. I am no adherent to its tenets, per se, BUT for thousands of years, since Zeus conquered the Titans (or whatever), the constellations have remained “constant” – that is, in all of recorded history, the stars have yet to change. So, for all of our motion, THE motion, we/it/everything moves together.
And to think (and not to oversimplify, of course, but as food for thought), “it” all started when God whispered “Let there be light” . . . and – *POOF* – there were stars.
Not if you go back even to ancient Egypt…also, Venus might have been a new comet that appeared about 3500 years ago and settled into it’s current orbit.
Immanuel Velikovsky has written that Venus broke away from Jupiter and eventually hit the earth which caused the floods talked about by Noah. Remember, God works through different methods for his intention.
Velikovsky also states that the timeline based on Egypt, based on king lists, overlaps and is not correct. He is a very interesting read. In fact, based on Velikovsky’s timeline, the Bible correspondents with history is an excellent manner.
The positions of the stars and planets change over time and it is one way of fixing dates as ancient civilizations were quite keen to keep track of such things.
Haha – love the early CG depiction of the vaginal “birth” of first light, even though it is sacrilegious and just . . . wrong. 🙂 And, point taken; to be moving at such incredible speeds, the stars – everything – would HAVE to move in something of a dispersive/”splash” pattern, thus FARTHER apart (as well as FURTHER into the vacuum/void/darkness); my point is that the constellations REMAIN recognizable (as opposed to, as I over-simplified, “have yet to change”) insofar as history records. If the “expanding universe” theory holds, in a thousand years, however, we ain’t having this conversation.
The latest physics shows the universe expanding at a constant rate, with no evidence that it will contract.
In less than a billion years our sun will explode, vaporizing the earth’s atmosphere and turning it into a Mars like planet that’s incapable of supporting life.
There’s no evidence that viruses hitchhike to planets in some crystalline form, despite the 70’s movie The Andromeda Strain, which still occupies some of my brain cells, sadly.
Some physicists have even been looking into the universe being an elaborate hologram, which makes perfect sense.
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2017/01/holographic-universe.page
I strongly believe that the universe was encoded by God at the beginning of time, an encoding that encompassed all space, time and action, from a butterfly flapping it’s wings to a Super Nova. But I’m also a Calvinist, so it goes with my viewpoint. I believe that the entire Universe and all of its motion was conceived by God as an elaborate music box that he wound literally at the beginning of time.
“In less than a billion years our sun will explode, vaporizing the earth’s atmosphere and turning it into a Mars like planet that’s incapable of supporting life.”
But without a sun there will be no planets as there will be no magnetic force to keep them in orbit… Chip
Gravitational force but yes go on.
I just don’t agree with your idea of the Big Bang to begin with. As a Christian, I believe the Biblical account of creation, so can’t really comment more initially.
LOL. Infinite Universe(!) requires identical copies of you. Analogously, infinite Pi models infinity quite well; each subset of infinite Pi expression is repeated somewhere.
No guy, that is not true. An infinite universe, which is locally stable, does not place any requirements on anything anywhere else in the infinite universe. The concept does, however, seem to suggest that if something is possible, it will occur an infinite number of times over an infinite amount of time.
Keep in mind that infinity is not a number. Mathematicians have tried to use infinity as a number for as long as there has been math and it has led to untold misery. Physicists don’t actually think in terms of infinities, but that does not mean that they don’t consider the idea that the universe is infinite. Many do.
Forgot to take your meds this morning, huh Rob?!?!?!
No not at all. My meds caused this.
Proof that God exists and that she knows and loves us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTrJab79LKg
Hollywood Bob – have you ever considered the goings on in the living cell? We can only observe it’s doings from the outside. Once we penetrate it we kill it.
Looking at mutations is a distraction from the real events going on inside the living cell. This is where God operates.
We have much to learn about life. But many that came before us and even in the present day many are making dramatic observations. The story is still unfolding. One cannot make any solid conclusions.
Considering all the past and present observations we are now extracting some very exciting truths. For one thing our consciousness is evolving causing our thoughts to evolve. This is not due to mutations but rather exercising our brain. Those who fail to increase their knowledge by personal study of the facts presented over thousands of years of conscious work by others will not be able to grasp the truths that are unfolding before us.
This is why we need to develop a new religion.
Our thinking has evolved. The bible is our datum. A point. In our experience over five thousand years of recorded history is a vector from which we can mathematically measure our progress.