Many deer have been harvested using a 30-30. It was marketed as a sporting cartridge, and it’s held that reputation for over 100 years. A new cartridge on the market is ready to challenge the legendary 30-30. The 350 legend is eerily similar, with a few slight modifications to meet hunting regulations.
Which will win the 350 Legend vs. 30-30 legendary showdown? Keep reading to find out! Here’s a hint, a new legend is in the making.
What’s The Difference Between 350 Legend vs. 30-30?
Despite these rounds being developed over 100 years apart, they are surprisingly similar, with only slight differences. The primary difference is the 350 Legend fires a 0.357″ diameter bullet from a straight-walled cartridge, whereas the 30-30 Win fires a 0.308″ diameter bullet from a bottleneck cartridge.
Cartridge Specs
The 350 Legend is a straight-walled cartridge designed to meet several states hunting regulations that ban bottleneck cartridges because they are more efficient due to the higher case capacity.
The 30-30 is a bottleneck cartridge similar to the 223 Remington. That’s the primary reason for the difference in bullet diameter and weight of these two calibers.
The overall length of the 30-30 ammo is 2.55,” and the case capacity is 45 grains. 350 Legend cartridge is 2.25″ in overall length, which is very similar to the size of 300 blackout ammo and has a case capacity of 36.5gr.
Because the rim diameter of the 350 Legend is the same as the 223 Remington, 0.378″, you only have to change the barrel on your 223 AR-15 platform to shoot 350 Legend rounds.
The 350 Legend will fire larger, heavier bullets than the 30-30 because of the bigger diameter. This gives the 350 Legend an advantage at close ranges, but it becomes a disadvantage at longer ranges.
How do the different size cartridges affect the felt recoil of each round?
Recoil
Several factors go into felt recoil. The weight of the gun and the specific load you’re firing are two of the most important. Instead of listing every gun and load for each caliber, we will keep it simple and speak in generalities.
The 350 Legend recoil averages 8.5 foot-pounds. That’s very comfortable for the average hunter to shoot. You won’t have to worry about it bruising your shoulder while sighting it in for deer season.
The average recoil energy for the 30-30 Winchester is 14 ft-lbs. This is a lot more than the 350 Legend. However, there are plenty of rounds with much more! I used a 30-30 to shoot my first deer around age 12 when I weighed less than 100lbs, so 14 ft-lbs isn’t unbearable even for small shooters.
If you’re basing your decision on recoil alone, the 350 Legend has the least amount of recoil, but the 30-30 is still very manageable.
Trajectory
I think of trajectory as the path the bullet takes. It’s measured in inches of bullet drop.
Flatter trajectory bullets are best for longer ranges. However, in this case, these calibers have similar trajectories.
The 30-30 Win is a flatter shooting round with a drop of 2.6″ at 200yds. It can effectively reach out to 300 yards, but it takes a skilled sharpshooter with a dialed-in rifle to consistently shoot 300 yards accurately, so it’s best to stay around 250yds or less.
The 350 Legend trajectory has a 7.6″ drop at 200 yards, so it’s also not recommended to shoot over 250yds because as you increase the distance, the bullet begins to fall more quickly.
Neither of these rounds is intended for long-range shooting, so their trajectories are similar. 30-30 rounds have a slight advantage, though, so based on trajectory alone, the 30-30 wins this round.
Ballistic Coefficient
The ballistic coefficient (BC) measures how well a bullet resists wind drift and air resistance. To say it another way, it’s how aerodynamic a bullet is in numerical form. The higher the BC, the better the bullet will shed the wind.
Heavier bullets will generally have a higher ballistic coefficient because it takes more force to move the flight path of a heavier bullet than a lighter one. The bullet design, weight, and other factors all determine the BC of a bullet. The Bc of these calibers will vary depending on the factory load you choose.
The 30-30 generally has a BC of 0.254 to 0.330. This isn’t very good compared to long-range rounds like the 338 Lapua, but it’s expected because of the rounded or blunt-nosed bullets required for 30-30 lever-action rifles.
The 350 Legend has a BC that ranges between 0.186 to 0.264, which is not very impressive if you’re a long-range shooter but remember this caliber maxes out at 250yds and performs best below 200 yards.
Judging from the ballistic coefficient alone, the 30-30 has a slight advantage.
Stopping Power
Stopping power is often spoken of in Sectional Density (SD). SD is how well a bullet penetrates a target. Bullet penetration is vitally important for hunting so that we make as ethical of a shot as possible.
Sectional density is calculated by comparing the bullet’s diameter and weight. The higher the SD, the more the bullet penetrates the target. This is a simplified explanation of penetration as other factors matter, such as bullet design, expansion, and velocity.
Bullets designed to expand on impact like soft points (SP), ballistic tips, or jacketed hollow points (JHP) will penetrate less than a full metal jacket (FMJ) that is designed not to expand on impact.
Winchester claims the 350 Legend penetrates 10% less than the 30-30 Win. This means we should give the slight advantage to the 30-30 once again.
Hunting
When hunting within their effective range of 200 yards, these calibers shine. Both are favorites of whitetail deer hunters across the country. That’s often why the 30-30 vs. 350 Legend debate is heated amongst rifle hunters.
As I mentioned earlier, my first deer was harvested with my dad’s Marlin lever action 30-30 at 50 yards. We often hunt areas where 200 yards is a long shot, so a farther shooting caliber is unnecessary. I’ve also taken a feral hog, an animal known for its toughness, at 25yds with that same 30-30.
As a deer hunter who rarely shoots over 200 yds, the 30-30 is an excellent gun. While the 30-30 is a large enough caliber for elk hunting, I chose to go with a 270 Win that is flatter shooting and has a longer range.
The 350 Legend was explicitly designed for deer hunting. Had this caliber been around when I was younger, I would have preferred it over the 30-30 because of the recoil reduction. It can still ethically take down a deer out to 200yds, meeting some states’ strictest hunting regulations.
As much as it pains me to say this because I have so many great memories of using a 30-30, the 350 Legend for deer hunting takes this round because the recoil is less without giving up any range. This means you can get back on target quicker if you miss, and it’s better for introducing cautious shooters to hunting.
Self-Defense
I don’t recommend either caliber for self or home defense. Using a rifle for self-defense asks for trouble because rifle rounds travel through walls and can strike family members or neighbors.
Though the lever-action 30-30 was used to help tame what remained of the Wild West in the 1900s, there are a plethora of better caliber choices for defending yourself and your loved ones. Like a 12 gauge shotgun or a 9mm pistol.
The 350 Legend has the same downsides as the 30-30 for self-defense which is why this round is a tie. Each caliber is best used for hunting, not for home defense.
Ammo And Rifle Cost / Availability
When considering buying a new hunting rifle, you should look into the price and availability of each caliber. Remember that you will need to practice with the exact ammo you plan to hunt with; otherwise, your rifle won’t be accurate.
Because the 30-30 has been around for a long time, several manufacturers make 30-30 ammo, whereas only a few make 350 Legend ammo. This means 350 Legend ammo should be harder to find.
However, that’s not often the case because so many people own a 30-30 they’re always buying up the ammo as soon as it hits the shelf. Since fewer people own a 350 Legend, there is more of it available.
As far as 350 Legend vs. 3030 rifle options go, there are far more choices for the 3030. Most 3030 rifles will be lever-action with a couple of options for single-shot rifles.
Since the 350 Legend is still reasonably new, fewer gun manufacturers make a rifle for it. If you switch the barrel and magazines of a 223 AR platform, you can shoot 350 Legend from it. There are also a couple of bolt-action rifle options offered by Ruger and Savage.
Reloading
An excellent way to save money and stock up on ammo is to reload. By reloading, you control all the controllable variables. You choose the exact rifle cartridge you want, the bullet weights, and the powder. It is more money up-front, but it’s much cheaper as you average it out to a cost per round.
Like ammo, reloading supplies are difficult to get sometimes, especially if they are popular among reloaders.
Since the 30-30 is such a popular lever gun, reloading is very common, which can be good and bad.
The great thing about handloading for 30-30 is that it allows you to stockpile 0.308″ diameter bullets which are popular as a hunting round in 300 Win Mag, 308 Winchester, and 30-06 Springfield. So you’re not buying a bullet that only fits one round.
The Legend is a relatively new round, but it’s increasing in popularity amongst hunters in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and several other states, so reloading the Legend is also becoming more popular. However, the brass and 0.355″ diameter rifle bullets are more expensive and harder to find than 30-30.
The bullet diameter is the same as a 9mm bullet, but rifle bullets and handgun bullets are not the same.
The 30-30 is easier to reload in the sense that the materials are easier to find and cheaper.
30-30 Ballistics
Note: This information comes from the manufacturer and is for informational purposes only. The actual ballistics obtained with your firearm can vary considerably from the advertised ballistics. Also, ballistics can vary from lot to lot with the same brand and type load.
| 30-30 Bullet WEIGHT | Muzzle VELOCITY (fps) | Muzzle ENERGY (ft. lbs.) | TRAJECTORY (in.) | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Muzzle | 100 yds. | 200 yds. | 300 yds. | 400 yds. | Muzzle | 100 yds. | 200 yds. | 300 yds. | 400 yds. | 100 yds. | 200 yds. | 300 yds. | 400 yds. | |
| 55 Grain | 3400 | 2693 | 2085 | 1570 | 1187 | 1412 | 886 | 521 | 301 | 172 | 2 | 0 | -10.2 | -35 |
| 125 Grain | 2570 | 2090 | 1660 | 1320 | 1080 | 1830 | 1210 | 770 | 480 | 320 | -2 | -2.6 | -19.9 | 0 |
| 140 Grain | 2500 | 2198 | 1918 | 1662 | n/a | 1943 | 1501 | 1143 | 858 | n/a | 2.9 | 0 | -12.4 | n/a |
| 150 Grain | 2390 | 2040 | 1723 | 1447 | 1225 | 1902 | 1386 | 989 | 697 | 499 | 0 | -7.5 | -27 | -63 |
| 150 Grain Supreme | 2480 | 2095 | 1747 | 1446 | 1209 | 2049 | 1462 | 1017 | 697 | 487 | 0 | -6.5 | -24.5 | 0 |
| 160 Grain | 2300 | 1997 | 1719 | 1473 | 1268 | 1879 | 1416 | 1050 | 771 | 571 | 2.5 | -2.9 | -20.2 | 0 |
| 160 Grain Lever Evolution | 2400 | 2150 | 1916 | 1699 | n/a | 2046 | 1643 | 1304 | 1025 | n/a | 3 | 0.2 | -12.1 | n/a |
| 170 Grain PMC Cowboy | 1300 | 1198 | 1121 | n/a | n/a | 638 | 474 | n/a | n/a | n/a | 0 | -27 | 0 | 0 |
| 170 Grain | 2200 | 1895 | 1619 | 1381 | 1191 | 1827 | 1355 | 989 | 720 | 535 | 2.5 | -5.8 | -23.6 | 0 |
350 Legend: A Brief History
The 350 Legend is a rifle cartridge developed by Winchester Repeating Arms and accepted by SAAMI in 2019 for a deer hunting cartridge. These deer cartridges met the laws that previously required hunters to use a 450 Bushmaster or 444 Marlin in states with laws prohibiting bottleneck calibers for hunting.
The Legend resulted from Winchester ammunition wanting to produce a low recoil, heavy-hitting new cartridge that met the overall length and bullet diameter requirements of the hunting regulations for these several states.
The Legend can fire 150 grain 0.355″ projectiles at 2,325 fps with 1,800 foot-pounds of kinetic energy, which can easily harvest a whitetail at 200 yards.
30-30: A Brief History
In 1895 the 30-30 Winchester was the first small-bore cartridge that used smokeless powder. It is also known as .30 Winchester centerfire, 30 WCF, and 30 Winchester smokeless. A rival gun manufacturer, Marlin, adopted the 30 WCF for their model 336 lever action.
However, they didn’t want to credit their competitor, so they removed “Winchester” from the name and called it the “thirty thirty.”
The first “30” refers to the bullet caliber used and the second “30” refers to the 30 grains of smokeless powder used in the original design.
To learn how the 30-30 Win compares to other calibers, don’t miss our other articles .30-30 vs. 30-06, 45-70 vs. 30-30, and 30-30 vs. 7.62×39!
30-30 vs. 350 Legend: Final Shot
The truth is I’m biased, as I grew up hunting with a 30-30 and loved it. However, had I been shooting the 350 Legend, the memories would have been just as great. The advantage goes to the 350 Legend because of the less recoil when everything else is very similar.
It pains me a little, but the new legend has overtaken the old legend of hunting cartridges in our 350 Legend vs. 30-30 article.
350 Legend vs. 30-30: Which Hunting Legend Prevails? originally appeared in The Resistance Library at Ammo.com.
Because of ammo supply issues, I have kept an eye on prices and supply online as well as at a few local gun stores. I have NEVER even heard of the 350 legend let alone seen any ammo. If I can only have 1 deer rifle, I’ll go with the 270 or the 30-06.
I thought I was the only one who never heard of the 350 Legend either, I thought this must be a joke, but it exists. Apparently created in 2019 so……..
Card,
Exactly. How can a cartridge created on 2019 be a legend already? Like I said, I’ll take a 270 or 30-06.
7.6 inch drop at 200 yards sucks. Most deer around here are shot at 100-200 yards. Most shots are taken quickly and dont have time to compensate for bullet drop. I suppose if you scope your rifle, you can zero it in where ever you want, but will limit you inn the field. BTW, my wife usually gets one with her car more often then I shoot one.
I’ve taken moose with my 270… my go to rifle when I was hunting… 308 was another, mainly because ammo was cheap and plentiful. I was at canadian tire about a week ago and all that was available in calibre was… 308…
Which hunting legend prevails?
Easy- .30-06.
Or reach out and touch- .300 Win Mag.
350 legend.
Yawn.
A fad.
It’ll soon pass into obscurity.
If you must have a .35 caliber buy a 35 Remington or Whelen.
Time tested and true.
The .357 Maximum is a straight walled rimmed cartridge with similar rifle barrel ballistics and easy to reload.
Been there. Done that.
Long gun version of 30 Super Carry.
It will be interesting to see if the Super Carry catches on. I expect to see revolvers trying to fit 7,8, or nine of them in a cylinder with moon clips.
No such thing as a perfect gun, as there are so many different circumstances. The 30-30 is time tested for what it does. So, if you even have to ask which is better, then the 30-30 wins. Don’t fix what isn’t broken.And the 30-30 isn’t.
Got an upper in 350 for the Rock River…..,35 Cal more effective in it’s range for peaceful protesters than .223…
Did they recommend you change the buffer?
No . Rock River upper and lower
To put this baby to bed, I just asked my neighbor across the street, who I hunt with, if he knew about this 350 Legend v. 30-30 argument; his response:
“The people who know the difference never needed that extra 3′ on either side to kill anything.”
High dollar ammo. Use to be a favorite of mine, lever action. Still have it, Red Flag, joking.
I reloaded .30-30 at one time. Living in the “city” then I simply was not able to shoot my Winchester as often as I would have liked. It’s an “All American” cartridge though and one John Wayne would endorse.
Eh…..,have access and land for Weatherby .300 mag.,works.
That said,maybe a kill once a year at best,while I love backstrap ect. and a rug found many folks the difference between eating well and not with a kill during season,have left a few shots/bows to them and enjoyed the day in the field(and a few beers/drinks at night).
That said,could change at any time.
Yeah sure, “deer camp” , a few beers. Don’t flame me. When “deer season” comes around in Texas in my neck of the woods, beer cans, beer bottles, 12 pack , 18 pack , 24 pack (the old case of beer) , 30 pack packaging I guess it’s called, litters the roads. I’m guilty. I love the American Sportsman Club.
I probably won’t go there. Technology is always interesting. No pun. Uh, only glad to have gobs of plinkers as in .22. The way “things” are going one may not be able to find those plinkers while wallie world still sells them about 7 cents , tax , title and license, turnkey. Shoot ’em up. Don’t get me wrong, bigger things are available. Red Flag, Red Flag, Red Flag…tRump, stick it up your ass! Thank you.
oddball calibers are cool for hobby and novelty pieces but it might make more sense to stick to commonly found calibers for tools to depend on.
Winchester has a long history of obsolete 35 cal. cartridges. In no particular order … 351 WSL, 35 WSL, 35 Winchester, & more recently the 356 Winchester. Then there’s the semi-obsolete 358 Winchester, which I will always have at least one in the safe, just because it works so well.
This so-called legend was developed for use in the few states with “straight-wall case” hunting restrictions, presumably to limit velocity & stop missed shots from traveling too far. It achieves that goal, & is usable in MSRs, but little else. Ballistically, it’s an anemic 35 Remington. Other than the 35 cal pistol rounds, the 35 Remington is at the bottom of the performance ladder. Where there are no case shape restrictions I see little use for this new legend other than for the recoil averse, or taking one’s AR deer hunting.
The thutty-thutty is everywhere. I wonder how many are in existence? The 350 Legend, not so much.
30-30 drop at 200 yds. = 2.6 in.
350 Legend drop at 200 yds. = 7.6 in.
“Trajectories are similar.”
The writer is an idiot.
150 gr. bullet at 2325 fps.
The 350 legend is an obsolete pig.
Old reloaded – that is crap. Total crap. A 30-30 has 2 inches drop at 200 yards my fat ass. A 30-30 bullet takes around .3 of a second to travel 200 yards. In 0.3 of a second, it will fall a bit over 17 inches. If it is .25 seconds, the drop is 12 inches.
The actual time will depend on the ballistics of the round and how fast it loses velocity, but the 0.3 seconds is fairly close. And given the muzzle velocity of around 2400 feet a second and a 200 yard velocity of around 1600 feet a second, average velocity is around 2000 feet a second. So the bullet travels for 600/2000 = 0.3 seconds, and that equals a 17 inch drop.
Over time, ALL bullets drop the same distance. All of them. A bullet with a muzzle velocity of 10,000 feet a second will fall 17 inches in .3 seconds. How far it will travel in that .3 seconds depends on its ballistics. But the ballistics of a 30-30 and the legend are very similar at that relatively close range. The data is readily available.
That is the fact of it. Muzzle velocity of the two calibres are similar (2350) as is the 200 yard velocity (1600) and there will be little difference in drop between the two.
For an old reloader you don’t know much about ballistics.
Not a good comparison at all. Perhaps 350 legend vs 35 Rem or 35 Wheelen. As for 30-30, it is still a commonly used hunting round. Adirondack hunters use them in their “brush guns”, usually a lightweight Marlin 336 carbine they can easily carry through the thick woods. These guys usually take sub 50 yard shots and hammer many deer that way. Unfortunately hunting has seemed to turn into some sniper contest with some. I know a guy who hunts his farm, sits in his stand and takes 200 yd shots with his .308. They don’t know he is there as they graze the downed corn field. His success isn’t so great as he doesn’t understand that there is more to a long shot than a fancy gun and scope.
I find that the .270 is my go to caliber. No specific reason, but it does shoot flat. I seldom need to take shots over 75 yards.
Yup I mostly use a 336 in either 35 rem or 30-30 (have both) rarely shoot over 50 yards often less than 25 here in the Ozarks.
I too have 336s in 30-30 and 35 Rem. I also have an 1894 in 30-30, but its a sporter and a tad heavy for carrying in the brush. Most old school hunters will agree that they rarely ever shoot over 50 yards and most use iron sites. I never put scopes on my 336s. Should be a rule, if you can’t take a deer with iron sites, you can’t hunt. Maybe I am a tad biased though, after all I rather bow hunt than use a rifle. I guess it is that old school way of doing things that I like.
Well I guess I suck because all my rifles wear scopes. At this point my eyes don’t work with open sights. I can see the front post or the target but not both after a surprisingly short distance. Getting harder to work a pistol past 15 yards.
At this point I have a scope on my crossbows as well, then again the new one has a pretty good range at 400 fps.
I do get my 4 deer every year and pass on many easy deer. I had little doe in touching distance last season, never paid attention to me sitting on the ground. I also get my fair share of squirrels and plenty of vermin. I spend a lot if time in my woods hunting and foraging and do a lot things old school
You are correct. My “youngness” is still within me. The last years of going hunting with my grandfather he missed or maimed most of the deer. His eyes got bad and he refused to use scopes, especially with muzzle loading. So I completely understand where you are coming from!
350 legend is another wildcat round that is subpar compared to 6.5 Grendel based off parent cartridge 762×39, 6.5 Creedmoor and 308. 30-30 is the standard bearer for game hunting if you are a shit shot. Ammo availability trumps subjective performance.
There are great wildcat rounds in production like 25-06, but ammo scarcity is the problem. Point being that it is good to have multiple calibers of rifles and pistols, but always make sure you have the most common calibers like 223, 308, 762×39, 9mm, 45acp and 22lr as those wildcat rounds (300aac/350L/350W etc) will be super rare to scavenge from the corpses and lost caches when shit hits the fan and Fallout 5 starts.
Hoard all you want as well, but remember you can only carry so much and if you blast through that in an engagement then you are probably not making it back to your cache or base of operation at that point.
Make every round count and stick to the common calibers if you dont have sufficient supply of the wildcats.
ZFG, out.
I always recommend the .22lr as you can carry thousands of rounds with you, and out to say 100 yards a well placed round is lethal. Lots of folks say the 30-30 has taken the most deer, but I suspect the .22 may actually hold the title.
I love my .17 hmr (2600 fps more or less – flat moving for a rimfire). On windless days I can shoot .5 MOA with my Tikka at 100, and I am not much of a shot anymore. I have a special .17 scope zeroed at 100 that is graduated out to around 400 yards. Distance marks are on the vertical cross hairs, that have been calibrated to the .17 drop by distance. I took a pretty large critter at around 200 yards with the little buzzer using that scope. Anything above about 160 is dicey though, but I had perfect conditions. Also, beyond 160 or so, the ballistics bullets won’t fragment.
You can carry thousands of .17 rounds, and on a still day should be able, in a pinch, to headshot a deer at 200, and I have seen folks pop milk cartons off out to around 400 using the type scope I mentioned. At 200 on a still day with a good rest, one inch groups should be doable based on my best groups of under .4 inch at 100. They still have a lot of zip at 200, and a headshot on a deer will bring it down. I do not recommend using such for deer hunting, at all, but am just saying in a crisis they will work. And I wouldn’t want to get stung by one in the hands of a marksman as it would be lights out.
I think the .270 Winchester mentioned above is a great rifle calibre. Hits hard enough for damn near anything. But likely there will be more 308 and 06 ammo around than 270 if TSHTF.
The 350 is merely another tool in the toolbox for a specific purpose here in the Ozarks we have many other tools available for longer or shorter ranges the 350 is a specific tool with multiple round capacity for that specific purpose and as quickly rebuild to 556 if needed and scope adjustments are not required the 350 shoots very well and is very accurate and deadly for its intended purpose
My understanding is that the .350 is an attempt to make an adequate short range hunting round that complies with the straight wall cartridge requirement some states have AND will also run through an AR-15 pattern rifle. If I am in need of a straight wall cartridge for hunting I’m going old school with the Marlin 95 or Winchester 1886 in .45-70. FWIW I have .357 mag Hornady Lever Evolution 142 grain with a polymer spire point for safe use in tubular mags like the Winchester 1892. Plenty for under 100 yard deer shots.
legend?
some real legends going back: .30-06 , .308, 7.62×39, .45-70 , .58 minie, patched round ball in whatever ya got anywhere from .45 out to .75…
Use whatever you have. Many deer have fallen to calibers thought to be obsolete by gun magazines.
Yawn, read this yesterday. Except for the point of bottleneck cartridges not being allowed to hunt in some states, which I find absurd, here we go again. I’ll take 308 any day of the week for just about anything.
no bottleneck cartridges? weird. ok, then .45-70 it is!
Back when I made the decision for a “best all around” caliber I went with 6.8 SPC. It is a purpose built mid range rifle that has little recoil that can send a 105gr bullet downrange at 2700 fps. I do have it over-scoped with a Steiner 4-16x50mm scope. It gets pulled out once a year for a trip to the long range otherwise it is a safe queen. I am getting 7 to 8 reloads on the cases before they are no longer reloadable.
I still have my 30-06 Model 78 Remington that will always be my primary deer gun. I also have my dad’s 7600 .270 which I have never shot
Winchester has a new 6.8 Western. The new SIG 6.8×51 and .277 Fury are 6.8 or .270’s. Lots of action in the 6.8 range meaning lots of great bullets for the reloader.